Marxist
Anarchist
Marxist
Anarchist
Marxists
Anarchist
This is literally how every Holla Forums argument about anarchism goes.
How exactly do we reconcile these differences? Anarchists aren't wrong when they point Marxists have betrayed them and fallen back into capitalism, just as Marxists are correct in pointing out that many anarchist revolutions are destroyed by outside, statist militaries.
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Killing the Anarchists.
If people on this board started reading theory so they would have less retarded things to talk about.
Killing the statists.
We don't. Why should we?
Friendly debate, please.
I'm so fucking tired of this bickering. Do you find it funny? Do you believe you're accomplishing something? Do you really believe you're going to convince anyone on the other sides? Do you think this debate is ever going to be resolved? Do you not realize you're trashing up this board for everyone else?
Killing Yuifag.
By recognizing the historical truth in both cases. Anarchism has historically failed again and again, a lot of times due to external forces. Variants of Marxism-Leninism have been a disaster.
Good Marxist (and even just leftist) theory, if it is to analyze real social and economic relations, must account for these historical events and understand how capitalism has evolved since. The Frankfurt School and Zizek have recognized the failure of "20th century communism" and moved on. You should too.
this shits bean happening since before the first international, its not going to stop, especially not on an image board with idiots on both sides that dont know what they're talking about. Its best to ignore it.
Its really not even Marxists and anarchists so much as it is vandalism vs direct action/democracy, at least when it comes to theory's. But as soon as anyone brings up history, it all revolves around how much you want to be an apologist for Lenin, Stalin and the Bolsheviks.
But yes, most (major) anarchist failing (not including smaller experiments that have succeeded and still exist that if you bring them up will usually be tossed aside as either never having been discredited because of their size) have usually been the result of their former comrades or strategic allies stabbing them in the back when the no longer proved useful.
This. The idea that there needs to be solidarity between Marxists and anarchists is ridiculous and historically has never happened. The aims of Marxists and anarchists are antithetical to each other, even if they both desire the same end goal.
The fact that the arguments on Holla Forums over it are complete shit is just a symptom of Holla Forums's shittiness.
There's more in common than not among libertarian Marxists and anarchists, in fact I think any differences are negligible.
But I don't know how anarchists and leninist-derived groups are supposed to resolve their differences. Even if we get beyond the historical baggage, the goals of each movement are just too different to be reconcilable.
Imma jus leave this right here:
youtube.com
This the best Marxism is anarchist, and vice versa. The 'divide' is just superficial these days.
We should have a council of Nicea but for leftists.
But then we'll end up having our own councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon and we'll be back in the same mess.
It would be interesting though to draw up some sort of "ecumenical" document highlighting everything we more or less agree upon.
Do you mean a … 5TH INTERNATIONAL????
… or is it 6th?
Probably seventh, because the KAPD tried to set up a fourth international years before the trotskyist fourth international was established.
Eh, I really don't care if some faggots form a state of workers.
Just don't fuck with our free association, platforms, and unions.
comrade what are you doing
Icepick the Trots.
I like this user
You can't really reconcile them.
They'll collaborate for the initial revolution. Once that's over, classical marxists will attempt to instate a vanguard, thinking they know the nature of power better than the anarchists. The anarchists will obviously oppose that, leading to a war which, probably will lead to state capitalism being perpetuated.
Honestly, we should just go for something that both parties can agree with like council communism.