Did DC Comics Game The System With Creative Bankruptcy?

Did the Prez book actually finish up, or just stop? From time to time I consider reading the original stuff, and would probably look at the reboot later.

It does seem that some people (who don't fucking read comics anyway) will not cut DC a break. Which is crazy because as a kid the first comic I remember having a trans character in it was the Sandman: Game of You arc. Hell, probably some of the first well written gay characters I read in comics as well.

Fuck, these people would protest that now, just because Gaiman's not trans. Fucking identity politics have no winners.

I know the character you speak of and Neil Gaiman has already been persecuted about that shit because he portrayed the trans character as nothing being happy with his/her body.

And also they complained about killing that character, citing some "women on refrigerators" shit. Mind you that the character died quite heroically, and Death granted the character's wish to be female (in a sense) That's something not even The Moon -implied to be The Godess all pagan feminists love- allowed

Yeah, the Moon was a fucking dick. I thought it was really nice how Gaiman handled her, she was honestly my fav character because she just wanted to help her friend, but couldn't do much because she didn't shoot out menstrual blood. And considering her background of growing up trans in a very conservative religious family, a lot of the character made way more sense than modern trans characters who have no real background at all. People basically give him shit for actually making her a CHARACTER instead of a mouthpiece for an agenda.

Also Archive.is mother fucker!

There's a handful of good points in that shitty article once you look past the writer's river of tears.

1) DC Comics are selling better than during the New 52 because they are printing fewer titles this time around, therefore people are less divided in what they're buying. Makes sense intuitively.
2) Unlike Marvel Comics, DC Comics is publishing books with all their familiar characters who life-long comic fans like. It turns out people don't like Spider-Man, they like Peter Parker. You can't make him Miles Morales and have the book sell the same. People don't like Hulk, they like Bruce Banner. Amadeus Cho doesn't sell as well. People don't like Captain America, they like Steve Rogers. Falcon's alright when he's Falcon, but he's no Steve Rogers. etc. In DC Rebirth, almost all the characters are their most iconic alter ego. Yes, Green Lanterns has the two new shits (and Blue Beetle is still Jaime), but otherwise legacies fucked off (and Hal Jordan has a book so HEAT doesn't need to re-form).
2a) Point the writer got wrong: DC Rebirth uses non-typical storylines for these "conservative" choices in characters. Just in the Superman books alone, Lois Lane and Lana Lang are Superwoman Red and Blue. Lex Luthor is acting as a hero. Clark Kent and Superman are apparently different people. Superman is a dad. Most of what DC's doing with their old characters is more novel than what Marvel's doing with their new ones
3) DC is publishing fewer books they know won't sell. If anything they tried with the New 52 actually took off, there might be a Grifter, Voodoo, Resurrection Man, Green Team, The Movement, Men of War, Sword of Sorcery, Frankenstein, etc. ongoing. Those books, for better or worse, did not sell well. They've had plenty of experience trying "new things out" (or new takes on old things) and they've found that the market overwhelmingly rejects such attempts. After so many miserable failures of ongoings, they demonstrated why mini-series are good trial balloons instead of just launching an ongoing.

I think there's some valid complaints in that there's a long history of gay and trans characters, especially sympathetic ones, dying tragically in EVERY piece of media that dares feature them, though it doesn't seem to be nearly as big a problem nowadays. There's still a lot of over-sensitivity towards it, of course.

Of course, this is the series that gave us the Grand Old Homos of England.

It's almost as if people like interesting stories, rather than the Burger King Kids Club.

I was actually working on a lesbian comic on plus4chan years ago, and one of the big things people asked of me was "don't tragically kill them" because they've seen it so much. But that was years ago, and when I think more people saw a thing they were tired of and wanted to personally create something different.

It's smart that they're experimenting outside the DC universe, and keeping the superhero stuff pretty much focused on doing new things with characters people already like. Even though Flintstones is the only nonDC U thing I buy from them, some of the other books they're trying out are pretty interesting. Honestly, I think most of use would be happy if Marvel trimmed the fat on it's books, and had Bendis write fewer (or none) of the titles.

Nigger have you read Superman/Titans/Aquaman, there also seems to be more good books coming later.

Just curious, and this is to everyone in this thread, how many people are buying or will buy DC rebirth books after reading my storytime thread, because I have seen a whole lot of people saying they are buying DC books now, which seems like some sort of miracle given how people on this board feel about buying comics, DC should be giving me shekels

I did pick up Superdad because I read it here, same with Flintstones. Deathstroke I got purely because someone had a thread about how Priestly wrote a fucking manifesto about the book, and that got me interested. I mean, if he's this into writing it, then I wanted to see a book made with some real passion. I didn't read many of the other Rebirth titles in the thread though, Superdad pretty much just caught my eye because the idea of Superman raising his son was the most interesting thing to me.

Honestly, yeah, a lot of stuff I want to read here before I go buy it. I only picked up a few things without reading at least an issue or two first, like the Rom reboot.

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Soon.

Hope you are right user

Yeah, what the fuck happened to Prez?

What are those people? children? Well, it's mostly a retorical question. They obviously are.

As I said so many times in threads like this they don't like nor understand superheroes, they just think they are just celebrities with superpowers.

Well, if Marvel would stop writing shit, then Marvel might get more shekels for their books. It feels, honestly, more like Marvel is focusing on the movies, where as DC is focusing on the books and animated movies. Can anyone even point out a good Marvel Animated Movie that wasn't made for 12 year olds?

That said, DC Rebirth has been a huge success with me because of how they are portraying Superman (who I grew up on). I (admittedly) like Nu52 Superman, but he didn't have the same feeling of straight badass that the current Superman has.
Shit, they brought back the feel of Superman BEING Superman in how Superman trashes pretty much everyone, with the only people capable of beating him being those designed to beat him like Doomsday.

Also I'm a big fan of Dick Grayson, and loved the Nightwing/Grayson comics from the Nu52.
Batman has been…iffy for me right now however. I hope they step up their game with him, because as it stands, Batman doesn't feel like Batman.

while Marvel's faffing about with pushing diversity to keep up with the trends, DC was doing it back in the 70s just because they fucking well could

While Marvel cries about muh equality and muh rights today, Green Lantern and Green Arrow went on a cross-country tour with a fucking guardian of the universe to give GL some perspective on who he's fighting for

And while someone might get asshurt about Black Vulcan's naming scheme suggesting tokenism, it is undeniable that John Stewart was shown to be a damn fine addition to the GL Corps as early as his very first appearance

well Marvel did do that in the 70's as well with Captain America and the Falcon going on a cross country tour but yeah I get your point.

Because the people that give DC shit for not being diverse enough are the same people who make THIS kind of rancid shit. The type of people who don't actually know anything about history unless some e-celeb, or author suggested by an e-celeb, tells them. And, it honestly doesn't have to be that many people who are this fucked up, they just have to be loud as fuck, and rope in more people who are just easily lead to outrage over things they don't fucking understand.

Which is a whole other problem people have. If people focused on things they knew shit about, everyone would be better off. For example and NOT to get into a big thing about it when the Brexit stuff was going down, I didn't have a strong opinion either way. I'm not fucking British, I don't know what's best for them. I just didn't comment on it. So if a Brit tells me their opinion, either way, on the upcoming election, I don't give a fuck what they think. They're not American, they don't understand the issue as well as an American would. So why should DC be lectured on diversity from people who don't even know they strives they took DECADES ago? People who will just take a statement like "DC is creatively bankrupt and not diverse" at face value.

did the fag who made that know the original series was made in the 60's so by 60's standards it was progressive. That and he conveniently forgot Sulu.

Any and all of that would wreck his insane bout of virtue signalling. If the first interacial kiss on tv isn't progressive enough for you, nothing ever will be. There is so much wrong with that one comic, future generations will have to study it to confirm if one person can actually be that stupid.

Also, last I checked, Shatner is Canadian. (and Jewish? Or was that just Nimoy?)

I think both are Jewish.

We should know about people being hypersensitive to overused cliches. It's like Holla Forums and DLC, or cartoons and premature cancellation.

(the whole reality subtext of AIDS probably doesn't help)

And they had to massively push for that interracial kiss ; it had to be under mind-altering influence and the execs tried to get them to make it an almost-kiss, but Shatner deliberately flubbed every take that wasn't a real kiss.

And the women cast demanded the miniskirts and apparently hiked them up at every opportunity; this was the 60s, when women were rebelling against expecting to be modest and even wearing a short skirt was seen as sinful and dangerous. The feminist backlash against sexualisation didn't come until later.

And Gene Roddenberry burned the negatives of the take that wasn't a kiss. That helped.

The studio was actually pressuring Nichelle Nichols to leave, when she arrived for work the guards wouldn't let her in the front gates, and she had no idea she even had fan mail until the mail room guys told her they'd been ordered not to give it to her. Then after that every day she'd sneak into the mail room and answer it.
She was ready to leave when Martin Luther King himself begged her to stay on because it was the first screen role for a black actor that had nothing to do with being black.

No, that comic was written by a spineless, virtue-signalling cumrag.

Why do we still live in a retarded world where one character who is minority/LGBT/whatever and has a evil or negative portrayal is somehow representative of every single person of that minority/LGBT/whatever class? Why can they not get that through there heads that it is not the case?

If you want diversity in this world it does goes both ways into good and evil. You can't have it one way, otherwise it's a goddam lie.

Even a toy company like LEGO understands this good/evil in diversity, they have female minifigures as police, firefighters, scientists, etc as well as having female convicts and supervillians.

Because they want diversity except when the diverse characters aren't the most important and rightful characters of the story and anything white and straight is evil.

This is going to end badly for everyone involved. DC is playing the short game again, focusing on milking the fanboy teet dry before they all die of heart disease. They're still not making any real initiatives to get new readers, especially kids, into comics, reducing their ReBirth to nothing more than dead flesh.

They may not be meeting nigger quotas or whatever, but this isn't going to be the revitalization of the comics industry as you might think.

The replies to this thread are disgustingly pozzed. The way some of you faggots are tripping over each other trying to prove "DC really is progressive you guys, it totally had LGBT comics written by POC, but it JUST WASN'T ENOUGH". Fuck off DC dick riders, your line is just as much shit as Marvel, you're vaguely starting to improve now, so yes the line is better than Marvel, but it's too little too late until you come out and apologize for the bullshit like all the race swaps, black power girl, Obama Superman "but dat a different universe!" FUCK OFF, the book was garbage. Until new 52 is completely erased and things go back to like, leather jacket wearing kon-el Superboy DC can eat shit. You've seen that rejecting progressive bullshit is actually bringing you sales, now if you want to start really making money, put out an apology for all that progressive faggotry and erase every single fucking race swap gender swap or sexual orientation swap. Until then I don't even want to hear your bullshit.

Comfort is bringing sales, not "rejecting progressive faggotry". DC is banking on nostalgia, that feeling of stability in a constantly changing world that fanboys crave. This pleases shops, which have been hurting lately due to the big two's "everything changing" events these past few years. They feel confident that these books will sell because they're more of the same instead of something that's different.

DC's sales are kicking ass because they've once again become "Garfield". Constant, never changing, and comforting despite it's lack of creativity.

hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/supergirl-being-super-comic-book-926438

Both Marvel and DC did just that with the Comics Code, which they used to bully and effectively kill all the competition, so their way and their way alone of making comics survived.

It was ARCHIE and DC. It was John L. Goldwater, president of Archie comics, and Jack Liebowitz, vice president of DC, who became president and vice president respectively of the Comics Magazine Association of America and used the Comics Code to run their competition out of business.

Yeah you can tell there's a few fags itt, referring to tranny characters as "she" kek
both the big 2 have lost me until they get rid of ALL the progressive social-signaling bullshit and fire the writers responsible. They lost me years ago. The only good thing dc has done in years was that fucking kfc ad comic.

Supes is good. Least the main title. Titans makes no sense. Haven't read Aquaman but I don't find him interesting. Blue Beetle and Deathstroke have my interest right now. But these are still very few titles. The Bat-fam titles are trash for various reasons, Batman himself is shit, Superman's other book has bad art, New 52 Lois Lane's book is more SJW shit, and so on and so on. DC is doing much better than New 52 but they're still not great and we all know that whatever good things happen won't last. They'll be retconned, butchered, killed off, or turned into the next liberal fad baiter.

If you want to know the future for the cape books you are reading (>reading capes), think of what gimmick will get shops to buy more copies.

Then you will understand.

>In our current year if you're not removing straight white men diversifying your lineup for a cheap boost in comic sales, you're classified as "creatively bankrupt."

I understand gimmicks and shit perfectly. I'm just not happy about it. I want stories and runs with actual meaning. Actual progression. Actual beginnings and ends for characters. Not characters going on and on and on forever with more and more shit runs through the years that usually effect the character's history significantly. That's too much to ask from big two capeshit though.

Only floppies I buy are Dark Horse Presents and Amazing Forest.

As far as DC's new titles go, I sort of liked Doom Patrol, even though it just felt like a tease. Cave Carson Has a Cybernetic Eye sounds promising too, but it will take more than that to get me to actually buy comics from the big two.

Except that Superman has a son, Batman still has the new members of the Bat-family around and Green Lantern is still a shitskin.

No, sales have increased precisely because they're slowly putting away all that SJW crap.

God bless those women. ToS female starfleet uniforms make me FUCKING DIAMONDS.

Gee willickers, what a surprise! DC might be baiting the disgruntled fanboy, but at least they know where their bread and butter comes from.

It is hard to believe that Marvel hasn't resurrected the Marvel Knights imprint in some way though. Last I saw, they were doing digital-firsts under the name with Spidey, the X-Men, and Hulk.

Prez is getting a "coda" of sorts in a Catwoman one-shot I believe.

To be fair, she's doing a book for Marvel too (A Shulkie book sans the ""She"). And the Supergirl book is a non-canon mini. The Big Two are doing what they always do, poach talent. Nothing unusual there.

I think you're both seeing part of it, but not all of it. The characters, at least the ones that will keep selling, feel more real. This is in part due to them being versions of the character people are more familiar with (like SuperDad) and moving away from the SJW stuff (because a story needs to be a STORY, not propaganda. Propaganda has no heart). There are new characters, and those will have to be fleshed out for years, but they're all connected to established characters that people already feel attached to. DC figured out that you need a comfortable core for people, one that pleases old time fans. Not JUST because old fans are loyal, but because remembering why these characters ever worked is important. You don't need marketing research for most characters, you already have it. It's called decades of stories and sales, and from that there should at least be hints at draws people in and what pushes them away. Which is why New 52 was such a fuck up, it threw away a lot of things fans were attached to and didn't give them something that felt like a good replacement.

Change for the sake of change is often misguided. It's hard to take something away from a reader, present them with something similar but different, and expect them to accept it without question. And that even assumes what you're replacing it with is AS GOOD. Since some people don't come here to follow comics as much, I'll explain it this way: Think about how you feel about AtLA and Korra. You have something that technically continues what you were enjoying, but goes off in another direction, and even the creators who were still working on it were at different places in their life than for the first series. There is enough similar to say "okay, same world" but enough different to put people off. Korra is the New 52, and Rebirth is more what people would want if Avatar continues: a return closer to something like AtLA.

Yeah some of the young animal stuff looks like it could be really good, also,just curious, have you read Superman yet?

Every time I see that comic, I take another step closer towards becoming Not Important and dealing with those webcomic cucks.

(((Rosenberg)))
I don't actually believe this stuff, but there are just so many pure coincidences going on

No. I gave up on most of capes long time ago, for the most part. Supes and son does sound interesting, though.

I highly recommend it, by far the best rebirth title by miles, If you want the full story of superdad

Convergence: Superman-> Superman Lois and Clark-> DC Universe Rebirth-> Superman Rebirth-> Superman(2016)

Though there is a lot of fat in there you can just read Convergance superman then the rebirth issue then the series itself and get pretty much everything

Do you read comics?

The black Superman was a Grant Morrison thing that appeared for just one issue of ACTION COMICS and the MULTIVERSITY mini. Like you said it also took place in the universe Earth-23. Meanwhile at the same time the Earth-0 white Superman was showing up in several books like: ACTION COMICS, SUPERMAN, BATMAN/SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN and JUSTICE LEAGUE.

The "black Power Girl" was a teenager character that worked as an assistant for the original white Power Girl and gained from the white Power Girl the permission to use the name. She also only appeared in the awful TEEN TITANS. Meanwhile the white Power Girl was appearing at the same time in several books like: WORLDS' FINEST, EARTH 2, EARTH 2: WORLD'S END and HARLEY QUINN AND POWER GIRL.

That's the big difference between DC and Marvel, like several anons have pointed out. When DC wants to experiment they play with the whole "multiverse" concept, to not mess their main universe/line. It's not like Marvel that's constantly fucking around with its main universe/line without any regard for its consistency.

For example, even when they killed the rebooted Superman, you still have the pre-52 Superman around who's married with Lois and has a kid, so there's no real loss.

Let me get this straight.
Marvel is giving people shit and calling it caviar, not only that but keep on shitting existing properties to appeal to a non existent market.
Conversely, DC is giving people what they want, the characters that they want and the stories that people are fond of.

Whats with comic book bloggers and their obsession with "conservatism"? Marvel is experimenting, failing and insulting their customers if they dont like it. DC did that for years and now they are giving what people wanted after a long time.
It only goes to show that filling the market with "diversity" and "progressiveness" only makes people more reactionary to it.

You can even see in the sales that DC is slaughtering Marvel in sales, hopefully the (((executives))) at marvel will have to consider weather making money is more important than pushing an agenda.

The execs at Marvel are so shit they I don't think the movie department has to answer to them anymore. Marvel needs NEW executives before they comics will improve.

Marvel needs to get rid of a lot more than executive they need to dump almost everyone working there currently and get back the talent that they have bled out along the way, say what you want about Hickman, Remender etc etc, but at least their books were at least readable.

DC should make the KFC comics into a monthly series.

I have more of a problem with people using political terms to describe whats going on. Like thinking the things going on behind the scenes in comics are left vs right or some shit.

What's going on is business. Marvel is trying to get younger readers because the fucking old ones have literally dying, but they're so fucking terrible at it that they just hired a bunch of sjw cucks instead of getting better writers. DC, on the other hand, is so bad at making money that they've fallen back on milking the fanboy market teet until it squirts dust, which will only work in the short-term unless they start getting some new blood reading funny books.

Both companies were attempting to solve the doomed comics market by getting new readers in, but both of them are so fucking inept at it that they've almost got the comic shops turning against them. DC was especially feeling the hurt after Convergence, so now they've completely given up on getting a wider audience and have stuck to tried and true fan pandering.

Joke must be on me because I can't tell one company from the other

They both defiantly have sjw writers but Marvel is on a whole other level, 95% of marvel is pure poz while like 15% for DC

The most ridiculous part is, that DC had a good shot at having comics be taken seriously, but did not seize the chance. If they managed to keep Moore and other talent around, they could have much bigger audience now. But big two are always after a quick buck and lack any forethought.

The first page has no excuse, because it came from BATMAN #44, but the second page came from SENSATION COMICS FEATURING WONDER WOMAN, an out-of-continuity digital first comic where DC invited a bunch of women to do their own take on the Wonder Woman character. Of course, most of the women invited did SJW bullshit which led to the quick cancellation of the comic.

Thanks, comic writers.

This is the kind of attitude that ruins a hobby, just take what is happening to games, they are becoming much more like movies with zero challenging game play so they can be more cinematic so sjw hispter games "journalists"
can feel like games are not toys and they have not wasted their lives. Where do you think the recent poz loads came from for comics? They came from people think comics are for children so we have to make them grim dark/gritty or fill them with the newest kosher opinions/leftist political garbage so that comics will "grow up" just like video games

I forgot to add that this reminds what Frank Miller said that he thought comics where the "Retarded bastard nephew of media" so he wanted to make them more cinematic until he realised that comics could do things movies cannot, and he came out wanting to make comics less cinematic. Also who the fuck cares if comics are taken seriously, why are you looking for validation in your hobbies from soccer moms and normies.

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Why are shops complaining about slackening Big Two sales putting them out of business, if they still have around 80% of the market between them?
Unless sales have plunged across the board, in which case, those other publishers must be screwed.

It means less comics are being bought not that other comics are being bought more so a dedicated comic shop isn't selling as many of the most sold products and are left with more unsold comics left over taking up storage space until it ends up in a discount bin.

The comics business model continues to be beyond fucked.

Yeah, this. The 'x needs to grow up and be serious' deal literally killed comics in the 90s when it chased off all the actual children that read them. The industry is the bleached bones of what it used to be because of that.

I think the article, and this entire thread, is jumping the gun. Rebirth isn't even a year old yet. Who knows if this success has any staying power.

I didn't formulate that well. What I meant, was that DC could have made many more comics like Sandman and V for Vendetta, that would appeal to more than typical comic book readers, just based on merit. That could help comics to carve a bigger niche and become something they are in places like France, Belgium, or Japan.

Yeah people here are getting a little too excited. Just cause DC changed the line name and went from shit books to okay books doesn't mean we should all be praising them like they're the saviors of modern day mainstream comics. They're still a bad company.

But they did. They had an entire imprint dedicated to producing non-traditional, mature comics. The problem is that stuff is like a niche within a niche because it still isn't breaking out of the Direct Market.

That is the real issue with Western comics. No matter the content, it's all confined to very small market of hobbyists thanks to poor business decisions. Decisions which allowed manga publishers to take over their business.

advice.

1. Bring back cheescake.

2. Do short runs of around 20 - 30 issues.

Their ongoing model has absolutely failed because we know their writers are shit.

Not really, mostly because DC wants to own every single thing they publish, rights and all. Considering the many, many horror stories about creators in the comic industry, this idea doesn't fly very well with talent.

American comics can't be taken seriously because companies in general treat creators like page-shitting machines. So much so, that everyone has developed a battered wife syndrome (see: people inside the industry who defended Before Watchmen).

It doesn't help that nobody seems to do most of the work in American comics. You have writers, pencilers, inkers, colorists. All of them do something, but strangely nobody does anything at the same time.

The biggest flaw of the american market is the industrialization of its creative process and it has always been like that. In Europe, comic book artists get to show their work at museums. And not just the old guard.

basically this. DC didn't "made" the books. the brits did. and the brits did better comics because they had better standards, mostly. those who picked up preowned properties did it so they could get to create something using characters they liked as kids.

...

They try to go for quantity over quality, pretending the industry's like it was in the old days when people would be buying comics by the bundle at supermarkets.

The industry can barely support a few books, let alone the glut on comic store shelves, which also serves an an impenetrable wall to the poor bastards who come in starry-eyed from watching movies and find themselves overwhelmed by crap.

Of course there's a glut of crap from the big two when the entire market for comics is structured the way it is.

DC and Marvel could care less if people buy their comics so long as they're able to con the comic shops into buying their comics. They want those fuckers to buy as many of their shit product as possible, as that's where their money comes from. The variant covers, the happy-meal toys, the renumbering, the events, all that shit is done to get stores to buy more books. Books that are completely nonreturnable should they be stinkers.

So remember that next time you look at a cape title in your LCS. The market doesn't depend on you buying it. It depends on your LCS buying it.

Indeed. Of course, this is the most suicidal business plan since Sears given it involves entirely shitting where you eat, both alienating potential customers and running your distributors into the ground.

DC apologetics 101. You're acting like the book black power girl was in being shit somehow excuses what a shitty concept she was to begin with, and you're pointing out that black superman was in another universe despite the fact that the post you replying to specifies that and says it doesn't make it any less garbage. They made Obama superman, and the black wonder woman, and several other race swapped heroes, but kept Lex Luthor white so they could call him racist. Your excuse boils down to "OK, so it was garbage, and so you can point to 1000 other examples of the same, but while wonder woman was using the term mansplain in one book, there was a bunch of others where she didn't so that somehow makes it okay and not shit!"

No, the cynical approach is race and sex lifting first stringers to try and appear progressive so your lefty diatribes are extra far lefty diatribes during the last vestiges of Obama's America.
The cynical approach is looking back, saying Civil War sold well, and then literally making an event called Civil War 2 centered around the message that profiling is wrong.
It wants to be security vs. freedom, that comes up in comics all the time.
Sadly that is downplayed for "Stop judging people based on appearances, amirite *wink wink*" While their very brand is now notorious for underlining how important they think it is to get rid of hetero white male heroes in the name of "progress".
The irony in calling DC conservative is funny considering DC makes pissbaby libtard stories all the time.
It is propaganda all the same, shallow stabs at being contemporary and always being on the side of the more PC of public opinions.
Their one claim to fame, their one misstep in the eyes of the cucklord who wrote this shit is that DC isn't race and sexlifting anywhere nearly as much as marvel.

No. Karen Berger did.

Swamp Thing, V For Vendetta, Sandman, and the like wouldn't be around if she didn't foster that talent by creating and overseeing Vertigo. When Warner decided to meddle with it's contracts, that's when shit hit the fan on DC's creative front.

Young Animal is DC's vain attempt to recapture that Vertigo feel, but it'll fall apart once Way finds something better to do.

Berger was just the middle woman in this. DC was asked to bring some UK talent to America, no matter who or what, because they were aware of the quality of the stuff being made in 2000ad particularly. The brits just brought their stuff which was going to be printed immediately. Some if not all of the stuff made by brits with DC's properties were born by them asking the brits something like "so… what do you want to do?". Morrison did Animal Man because he told them he wanted to do an AM book, for instance.

Brits are still somewhat butthurt about this, especially considering how they treat(ed) the creators like disposable material, and also because they were left with Garth Ennis and Mark Millar instead of Moore, Bolland et al.

Just read the new Superman, and gotta say, Superdad is best dad.

Yeah this new issue is fantastic
Ignore my shameless shilling for my thread

Interestingly enough, returnability is actually one of the big selling points for Rebirth. It's probably still a good idea to be wary, given the company's history, but if this is the start of a trend, it could be pretty good for comic shops, at least.

I'd put my penis in that girl. Who is she?

She was just a side character that got killed off. Don't read the filename, it's better for you this way.

The Wonder Woman character was created in the fucking 70's. She's named Nubia. Even the black Superman was inspired on the Sunshine Superman concept.

The Lex bit was also a joke. Lex hated black Superman for him being an alien, not for him being black, and later Lex was even heroic.

In the same issue and universe Batman was shown as white, because there was no black counterpart for him before.

Yes, because the mansplaining comic was a digital comic done by another department that nobody cares about and that told out-of-continuity stories. The comic was quickly canceled.

Meanwhile at the same time the real Wonder Woman comic was being based because Brian Azzarello's a good writer.

Now compare this with Marvel, where their main comics is full of shit like that and there's no fucking escape for readers. I'm sorry, but there's no way you can compare Marvel with DC.

Wow, she has the same name as some dyke. I bet they don't like each other!

it still hurts

What will either company do when Trump gets in office?
Will the entire Marvel creative team commit mass suicide?

I hope so. A glorious genocide of degenerates and liberal scum of all sorts. And we won't have to lift a finger to get rid of them.

Nothing. People pretend Trump is a big deal, but he's not.

Don't say that around here, you'll hurt people's feelings.

He sure is a big deal to the left.

You're right, my bad.

So how many sites even make up "comic journalism"? These people don't hold much power, but they hold enough where it's obvious they're pushing narratives to praise tumblr writers and artists and say DC "gamed the system" for releasing traditional books by talented people. There have got to be unethical ties all over this, I CAN SMELL IT! Does anyone know anything about the people who run stories like this, or other ones that damn artists like Frank Cho for speaking against their outrage tactics?

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The British comics industry is way more fucked than the American (even with the literal handful of non-licensed titles being sold in supermarkets and newsagents). This might be due to the fact that a lot of those "British Invasion" artists and writers (initially) thought the big two were giving them a better deal than IPC or DCT. Chew on that a while.

The only narratives they're pushing are onto naive, 45+ comic store owners who are desperate to expand their business(or at least hock some of their comics to the MTG/Pokemon crowd).

As pointed out, mainstream publishers are out to sell comics to shops, not consumers. Marvel has ties to a sites Comics Alliance and Bleeding Cool, so I'm sure they're helping push the idea that Marvel's books are more "diverse", thus more in tune with the hip young people market that retailers covet. I mean, they make comics about MEMES and COSPLAYERS. Kids like that, right?

The only reason DC doesn't have connections like this because Didio is a complete fuck up.

I wouldn't count on that.

really? oh happy day! thank Zod that shitfest ended.

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Not like this is new. Marvel pushed Civil War because politics was a hot topic, made teenage heroes with skateboards and music powers, etc etc. The diversity pandering is just the latest in a long, long line of increasingly desperate and out of touch fellow kids gimmicks that'll be quickly forgotten when it doesn't sell books.

I don't understand where their anger is coming from. Supes seems to be acting like Supes to me.

Read the name of their blog. They're shippers, angry that their favorite bit of masturbation fuel is no longer canon.

A bit off topic, but what was with the Batman and Wonder Woman shipping in DUAU? They never seemed like they would go well together.

Bruce would get his dick snapped off by her. Horrible idea.

Superman was tied to Lois Lane in STAS, whereas Batman had no strong relationship. No reason to confuse the kids, I guess.

The DCAU was created by Batman fanboys, so when it came time to do Justice League, Batman needed to crush some super puss. Wonder Woman happens to have one.

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Are these titles selling well to readers? Whatever good shit Rebirth brings in is much more likely to get reverted/cancelled if DC just ends up with a ton of returned books.

I've seen some articles with quotes from a few comic store owners claiming that business has picked up again, but nothing in the way of definitive sales data focused on how many customers are actually buying all these Rebirth series.

I did also learn that Diamond preemptively knocks off 10% on all of DC's numbers in the charts listed due to the returnability, though. Does that help with narrowing down how much in the way of readers DC is getting?

As much as I like the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship, Superdad fits better with Lois and Jon wouldn't turn out so well if raised by Wonder Woman's feminist shit.

Can you tell me more about that? I'm curious. I know I see people mention their ties to Comics Alliance a lot.

They didn't, as he pointed out. But pretty much everyone wants to fuck DCAU Batman, including in real life.

Think it was more an attempt to give Wonder Woman some interaction, since they didn't really do a lot with her personally.

Looking a little further into it, the numbers that Diamond City put out for the month of August are apparently a level of performance that the industry as a whole hasn't seen since some time in the mid-90s. Marvel titles haven't actually slipped in performance at all, people are still buying them in the same numbers that they've been buying them in for quite a while, it's just that DC's titles have gained enough customers to outperform them.

…Is it possible that DC might actually be getting people into comics? Attracting that new audience that OP's article claimed they were pushing away and ignoring?

Wait, but that would mean that making GOOD BOOKS brings in new readers… that doesn't sound right? Surely they gamed the system somehow.

DC has been attracting people to their comics thanks to a number of things:
1) The Games - Can you name a Marvel vidya that can compete with the likes of the Arkham series? And with rumors of a open-world Superman game in the works, it is likely that DC will remain on top over Marvel in terms of Vidya.
2) Rebirth - Rebirth is an attempt at returning to tradition and comfort for DC, and it's working.
3) Recent movies - While film critics say they flopped, and most people will agree BvS was long winded, no one can deny that the fight scenes were extremely well done. Superman felt like Superman, when it came to the fight scenes. Batman was a bit off kilter due to (accidentally or otherwise) killing several people in the process of rescuing Martha.

In the end, all this together has pushed people greatly towards DC's end.

Nigga, he's BATMAN. He knows the things he was doing to those people were going to FUCKING KILL THEM. If the movies had any positive effect, I'd say Suicide Squad did way more than BvS. Not only did it do pretty good with younger people who might try out comics, it reminded people that DC has OTHER CHARACTERS. BvS just reminded people that Batman and Superman exist, things they didn't need to be reminded of.

Games are true though. Despite some fucked PC ports, WB games has been putting out shit people will play, and Injustice 2 is coming along. Disney is only now remembering that good videogames get people excited, and we don't even know if they'll really do anything amazing. Used to be I could find a fun Marvel game at least every year, now there's basically nothing.

I also think those lower price points on Rebirth help. Not so much that people are too cheap for 4 or 5 bucks a book, but there is no point to not wait for the trade if you're paying that price anyway. At 3 bucks, you might as well just get each issue.

One point of data supporting that Suicide Squad had more of an impact than BvS: Harley Quinn #1 and #2 and Suicide Squad #1 and #2 were all in the top ten for August, with Harley Quinn #1 occupying the top spot.

The tv shows might also be having a bit of an impact, considering that Supergirl: Rebirth also broke into the top ten.

All excellent points.

I think with how much comic and vidya overlaps in fans, you'd assume they would, ya know, put out better or more games.

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Cor, imagine if, after making comics that people actually want to read, they tried to get them back onto newsstands and into supermarkets and convenience stores? Those bigoted shitlords.

Come on, man. Batman has complete control of his body and probably has a plan somewhere in which he'd attempt to seduce Superman if anything else failed. He knows how to survive super-sex.

Superman was already tied to Lois Lane thanks to his previous cartoon. Batman has no strong relationship despite his previous cartoons. They were already going to pair Green Lantern with Hawkgirl and have the Flash as the funny bachelor and Martian Manhunter as the sad loner. So they had to a least imply something between Batman and Wonder Woman.

And honestly? It kinda worked in the cartoons.

To be honest? The Superman/Wonder Woman is pretty much what killed the rebooted Superman.

Sure, there were other factors as in:

Killing off the Kents.
Taking away Smallville because of Kents death.
Making Lois a huge bitch.
Taking away the human cast: having Clark fired from Daily Planet.
Taking away the kryptonian cast: Making Supergirl a frenemey and Superboy a stranger.
Lack of consistency and direction: he becomes Doomsday, he loses his powers, his secret identity is revealed and so on.
Constant cross-overs between the titles.

But the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship just made really obvious and cemented the fact that Superman was complete devoid of sense of normalcy, of human interactions. Not to mention that both characters were written as cunts to one another or to others when together in several books. Bunch of fans couldn't wait to see the relationship ending, Lois ditching he blond fuckboy and Superman and Lois going back together.

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The Black Panther/Storm of DC.

Is predictable and boring, and in the case of Superman paints a terrible image of the character.

Thanks for realizing just now what people with a working brain can realize at a glance, and have realized decades ago.

For anybody who wants to know the exact circumstances behind DC Rebirth:
hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/rebirth-geoff-johns-talks-bringing-897289
archive.is/b4S6V

Geoff Johns is certainly good at smooth-talking the press, isn't he?

Let me explain to you what the real circumstances behind Rebirth was.

After Convergence, DC took a royal beating from the retailers from all the garbage they were putting out. LCS's were buying less books, so Dildo had to say "W..wait, we'll make shit for fanboys and even drop the price by dollar!"

DC would never admit it, but Rebirth happened because they fucked up hard.

I don't need to know the circumstances behind Rebirth. I've read Convergence. I've seen the huge drop in sales it caused. It was Didio's greatest fuck up next to the New 52.

What gets me is how fucking degraded DC is that they have to lean on Geoff Johns to bail them out, both in comics and in movies. It's appalling.

He is, and some of what he says is true, but it highlights the thing he's not saying: New 52 was a mistake. It jettisoned decades of history for no good reason, and fans didn't like it.

Honestly Geoff Johns should have been stuck on the movies from the start. He truly loves one very iconic incarnation of characters. This makes him absolutely terrible for ongoings, but it makes him perfect for a faithful adaptation for audiences who barely know about the character.

Geoff Johns was a co-producer of Green Lantern, had extensive creative control, helped choose the script, and worked with director Martin Campbell to shove as much shit into the film as they could.

The thing about Rebirth, is that DC STILL didn't give up on the New 52.

If you read the comics, you'll notice that a lot of shit doesn't line up with Pre-Flashpoint stuff, and there's outright contradictions (such as how Superman's death went down), although I'm not sure if this is deliberate or Geoff Johns simply being an incompetent moron that can't even get the story straight.

They are waiting to see which way the wind blows. I have a strong suspicion that a year or so from now, DC is going to be tanking hard again. There's a reason why Flashpoint happened.

That's a given. Lee and Didio are still in control of DC, which means none of the core issues with the company have been solved.

Rebirth wasn't a reboot, it was a realignment of the DC universe. They brought back characters that were loved, and made certain ones disappear.

Yeah: DC shitcanned them six months ago to the tune of them and the Mary Sue writing up accusations of everyone from Sensation being sexually harassed by DC execs. That meltdown was probably some of the most entertaining fiction that Sensation Comics ever cooked up.

Wait, the DC execs sexually molested the feminist women invited to work in Sensations Comics?

Don't get me wrong, I like some abs, some snu snu and some fit. but most artists go full female bodybuilder, which is disgusting

Knowing feminists, maybe they made a joke or were rude once. Or who knows, maybe it was actual and legit sexual harassment.

The thing is SJW made the waters so muddied I'm not going to believe accusations of sexual harassment for a long time.

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No. There are persistent rumors that a certain senior editor who may or may not be Eddie Berganza (nobody's named him outright for obvious reasons, but the implications are there) has gotten into hot water for sexual harassment several times. Supposedly to the point that DC had to demote him to Senior Group Editor and actively segregate him away from any female employees, if I recall correctly. But they haven't fired him for it, which some consider pretty damning.

It doesn't help that people hate Berganza for other reasons, such as being partly responsible for the worst DC stories of recent history. Since he edited them, of course.

BC article from a while back: archive.is/CAxmM

It's that or the other extreme where she is a stick =(

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Y'know, it totally makes sense that DC manages to be incompetent enough to hire hypersensitive feminists without firing the utterly autistic socially inept nerdlords, and then put them in the same room.

When you put it that way… yeah, it makes sense.

Kind of like real life, bodybuilding became a grotesque parody of itself long ago. Most physical ventures do, it seems.

This. The only thing feminists have done for rape or sexual harassment was make it next to impossible to take seriously any claim of such crime without a substantial increase in evidence.

Kinda funny how trivializing rape to farting loudly does that.

Thanks. I will probably just go with the shorter way you listed and fill out the blanks if I will like the story.

That and last year, just after trailers came out, every other girl wore Harley costume. This time it will be even more.
Women also seem to love Daddy's Little Monster shirts, and they were so popular that DC copyrighted the phrase and briefly went after people who were selling them on cafe press and other sites without permission. They don't bother doing that with Watchmen logo shirts, or even ones with Batman logo.
Suicide Squad created massive merchandising opportunities for DC, and made Harley Quinn mainstream .

Don't remind me…

As much as I like the halloween slut's Harley costumes, I fucking hate when women generally get involved in things they know fuck all about.

Hmm, sounds serious. Why don't you run around conventions yelling CASUAL! at cosplayers?

I hate it when dudes do the same thing. It has nothing to do with casuals because even casuals can know what the fuck they are saying or representing.

All these women love Harley Quinn, but ignore the fact that the bitch gets beat by Joker routinely, and suffers from Stockholm Syndrome.
It's the irony of western leftism though, that women claim to be more intelligent and "liberated" but an argument instead could be made that women are fucking retarded.

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For fuck's sake, isn't Bleeding Cool a professional website? Do they not have a fucking editor, or at least a writer with enough brain cells to notice the glaring spelling error in the fucking headline?

The first arc will be about connor kent making his way to clark's house and realizing that the Superboy name is taken, and that if he wants to keep superheroing he has to use his old name again.

He has to become… THE METROPOLIS KID!

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wouldn't be that out of place either, seeing how now he is the only one of the supermen (from reign of the supermen) that is missing.

i need to see this comic

I had already stopped reading most of Marvel in the past few years and then finally dropped it all when they soft-rebooted their universe into Diversityville, cutting the many iconic characters and the ties with the continuity. There was no reason to continue reading it, it was an honest sensation of freedom.

Also, they made clear that people like me - who have been reading comics for the past decades - were not welcome as readers, they want "new demographics". Doesn't help that I'm not a leftist either and their comics is pure progressivism-proselityzing, and I if I wanted to be lectured/preached I'd go to a church.

Meanwhile, DC gave me most of what I wanted: comfy comics, familiar iconic and somewhat timeless characters in good stories of crime and adventure. They did everything the average reader wanted and they got rewarded for it.

Call me capefag, cancer killing the industry, whatever. When I want something different, I buy Image or stuff from another imprints, when I buy Capes, I want something familiar and comfy.

I'm really happy with DC's current output, buying comics is a joyful experience again.
Good job, DC.

A big problem today is that people who were fighting over things in the '70s and '80s haven't realized that those things were achieved and can't put down their pitchforks (and worst, keep pushing the new generations to fight their windmills).