Legit Question

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/foundations-leninism/ch06.htm

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/jul/x01.htm

I'm still not sure I get it. I may be retarded. Are you suggesting M-Ls will halt production of consumer goods? That they will force an ascetic lifestyle? I guess distribution of goods will make some things more scarce some places and somewhat limit consumer culture. Do I understand you somewhat correctly? How would you solve this?

It's not so much halting consumerism, it's more about destroying the illusion of choice that Westerners love so much. It would screw over any revolution and the proletariat wants to choose between different brands

Maybe I'm oversimplifying ML thought, I'm basing it on the feelings of tankies on the internet and Trots in real life, which may be a bad example of how a ML or Leninist economy would work in the west.

Do you read Marx and agree with him? You are a marxist!

Do you read Lenin and agree with him? You are still a marxist, since Lenin himself was basically a marxist!

Do you drape yourself in the popularity of them both while not really caring about their ideology? You are "marxist-leninist"!

Well. Do you think following Stalin's example like this makes you an opportunist? Yes, it does, because Stalin was nothing like Lenin!

Lenin was rooted in Marxism and made adjustments as necessary as the revolution failed. Leninism is just the ideology built on Lenin's personal views and experience through the revolution. Marxist-leninist is a label stalin took to make himself sound like a logical successor to Lenin when in reality he betrayed what little hope there was left for socialism in favor of maintaining a capitalist state. I don't think Stalin was a bad guy, but it is laughable to compare his ideology to that of Marx and Lenin. He did what was probably best given a failed revolution and the necessity to develop capitalism, but the dissolution of the comintern and betrayal of revolutions abroad I think exposes his real intentions. Stalinist cocksuckers get out.

This.

Though, I view Leninism as "making ajustments according to subjective circumstances, in order to maintain progress and the revolution, without going fullstatecapitalism".

Also, Leninists (as I see it) don't make Lenin into a flawless godlike creature that did nothin wrong.

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I think that before a transition/revolution the illusion of choice will already have been broken. It seems to me to be a prerequisite of a revolution, and a natural effect of class consciousness.

I am not very well read on any socialist theory, to be honest, but of what I understand M-L seems a good way to go. It does not mean I agree with everything Lenin or Marx did or said or wrote. It does not mean I make excuses for Stalin's atrocities. Still, I don't dismiss everything these guys did, wrote, and said just because they made mistakes or did/said/wrote things I disagree with.

Coincidentally, I'm meeting up with my local Communist Party tomorrow. They are M-L, and I have several questions for them :D

archive.is/J03rL

marx2mao.net/Stalin/Index.html

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/index.htm

Read Stalin

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/apr/21.htm

Read Lenin

Where is that first webm from? I've never seen it posted here before.

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KEK!

Lenin did what was necesary (in his opinion) for russia not to collapse.
Had Lenin be living under todays conditions and automations, he wouldn't take the same steps.

The difference between going for state capitalism, on the way for socialism, and what Stalin did (FullStateCapitalism), is that at some point, you have to make an actual change!

Sure you could argue "WW2 messed things up" and so on, but you need to delegate and give up power if you want to see ANY change.

Not, gather all power to yourself and ban any idea for progress, that is not "full Industry, fuck the farmers".

I never blame Stalin on "killing millions".
I blame Stalin and his supporters, on fucking up the economy and sabotaging any chance for global socialism.

When the "Revolution was over" is when it went FullStateCapitalism.

Not when Lenin implemented NEP, in order to cope with the situation.

marx2mao.net/Stalin/PITC24.html

Read from this point, and before you dismiss it, consider the failures of the left with BLM and Gamergate

For those who are now having a meltdown, the common thread is condescension, in the case of gamergate a condescending superiority in the case of BLM a condescending submission I know this wasn't the case on leftypol so much, but in general this was simply the case

Ever wonder why the farms suddenly got collectivized in the USSR, it is not because Stalin dictated it, and it was so, but rather because a popular movement towards it occurred at the time, and read the link for how the party under stalin had the ability to reinforce this popular movement.

It's easy to be a couch quarterback

Ok, things I would have done differently from Stalin given the material, fog of war, and political constraints he operated in to pursue the goal of communism

Let nazi germany invade all of poland, and fortify that border instead. not pick a fight with finland, and push the spanish colonies to declare independence in support of republican spain

The worst part is, I'm not even sure these are things were Stalin had room to wriggle and I'm not certain it would have brought a better outcome.

What would you have done differently? and don't propose things with the value of hindsight or moralist claptrap where you end up dead and things going to hell in a handbasket. Put yourself in Stalins shoes and understand you aren't actually a dictator but just one politician in a shit situation

What's very interesting here, is that one of Trotsky's earliest complaints about Stalin was that he didn't go full industry like Trotsky thought the soviet union should.

Interestingly, the "revolution being over" was precisely when Stalin attempted to make "an actual change" by implementing democratic reforms after the agricultural workforce had been proletarianized through collectivization, and the last vestiges of private commerce had been eliminated

ie, shifting control from the party to the workers

Also note that post WWII Stalin attempted to abolish the replace the politburo with a presidium of 25, soon after he ended up dead

You're now going to object that it didn't work.

To which the answer is WWII happened, but we also need to figure out what else got in the way and how to avoid it in a serious manner in case things end up in a similar situation

What is this?

Bureau of Land Management and a scandal involving a Kotaku clickbaiter talking up a shitty indie "game" developer without disclosing he was fucking her.

this needs to become a thing.

What does it have to do with Stalin?

What? GG?
Appart from a movement being take over by personality cults, not much.

THIS THREAD DERAILED QUICKLY

Read Stalin