Thread in opposition to religious establishments and their respective beliefs, be it Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or any other.
Let's discuss the arguments by certain religions can be found to have been man-made creations. Not for our benefit, but for those who continue to believe in superstitions and ridiculous myths despite evidence to the contrary. I find that - more so than scientific arguments - it is usually arguments stemming from historical research or literary criticism that best show the Bible to be false (and all the other religious texts).
For example, one might be the following contradiction:
The only Roman census that roughly corresponds to the time period when Jesus could have plausibly been born was the Quirinius census. Even at first glance, the stipulation that "citizens were to return to their towns of origin in order to be registered" is ridiculous. This would have led to massive amounts of people being uprooted and forced to return to remote or far-off places, especially since there were a considerable number of Hellenes and Latins living in the cities of the Decapolis and Ceasarea Maritima. The stipulation also makes no sense in that a census made for tax purposes would be concerned with where the tax-payers (people) currently reside, and not from where they come. It is most likely this stipulation was a later insertion/addition from Greek scribes who wished to appeal to Jewish messianic sensibilities (and in any case, failed, since most of the converts to early Christianity were Gentiles, rather than Jews).
Blind faith and literalism in the ramblings of a fat bearded man based on the word of the Holy Das Capital, faith in the Bolshevik clergy, and sprinkled with recruitment slogans like absolute equality and free shit for all.
Angel Roberts
Completely ignoring OP's anti-religion thing and asking for which type of denomination is best suited for leftist ideals and which I should join. Religion is a nexus here in the south for community and although I do believe in God, I'm not too into it and also the diversity is a bit intimidating for me: plus I don't have many nice clothes.
Connor Martinez
You're going to hell
Jordan Martinez
Not because your fedora is big you have to flash it so much.
Leo Powell
You don't need nice clothes to go to church silly! Pick whatever denom you feel comfortable with.
@OP
No idea wtf you're trying to say with the census; please try again.
Bentley Morris
I'm not a Marxist. Nice spook, though.
Go to your containment board, then.
>>>/christian/
Funny, because it's quite sensible and easy to understand. It is not my fault if your reading comprehension is lacking. Educate yourself, is what I'd recommend.
James Hill
Fuck off, fedora.
Samuel Jenkins
I think a lot of this criticism comes from just thinking the claims true and putting them in the context of what we actually know.
The age of the human species is on the scale of hundreds of thousands of years. The texts of current religions are from within the last ten thousand years, and contain nothing but factual and ethical claims people in those eras could have made up, many of them very outdated. And whenever these have been amended, each amendment could have been come up with by human beings.
How likely is it then that the supernatural cares enough to tell us what to think, but waits at least 90,000 years to do so, only to give us revelations those people could have made up?
Hudson Foster
I don't see why a census existing or not matters. Most people are in agreement that Jesus Christ existed; what is in doubt is his miracles/claim to divinehood so you're already going against the grain. Your claim of the stipulation being impossible is backed up with nothing but your own speculation. You even admit that your theory has a contradiction as the Greek scribes failed to appeal to the Jews. Please kill yourself promptly.
Aaron King
Nice meme, you make it up yourself?
The problem of the Qirinius Census is not something that is "my own speculation", and a number of others have raised issue with it.
The historical Jesus and the legendary Christ of the Christian mythos are completely different and separate characters, such that to claim Christ did not exist is not an inaccuracy.
Do you not understand the concept of an 'interpolation'?
Jack Rodriguez
No, because your whole point is bull shit. Communism will not solve existential problems, their will always be a need for religion.
Matthew Rodriguez
Religionfags are the worst.
>implying I'm a communist
Also, I have pondered such a point: that is, that humans need something to believe in. As such, I believe the best alternative would be something similar to the Cult of the Supreme Being (or of Reason) of Revolutionary France: a belief and acceptance of a supreme creator deity who is utterly unknowable. And because he is completely alien and unknowable, it would be a religion without dogma or priests or official temples
Actually, you would be wrong on a number of counts.
See the same article I posted: "Some misuse the "Tivoli" inscription which they say proves that some Roman official served twice in Syria and Phoenicia. First, the name is missing, so this is no proof that Quirinius is involved. Second, the inscription has been mistranslated. It should read: "legate of Augustus for a second time" not a second legate in Syria as the harmonizers insist. Archer does not refer to the Tivoli inscription directly; but still argues that since Luke knew of the census of 6 C.E., he correctly called this one Quirinius' "first" (prote). But Fitzmyer shows conclusively that the grammar clearly indicates that this was the first census in Judea, not Quirinius' first enrollment.2"
"It has long been known that Tertullian held that S. Sentius Saturninus, not Quirinius, was governor at the time of Jesus' birth. Saturninus ruled from 9-6 B.C.E., the period most likely to be Jesus' birth time. P. Quintilius Varus was governor during the next most likely period of 6-4 B.C.E. M. Titius was in Syria ca. 10 B.C.E. Quirinius himself was very much occupied during this time, having been assigned to the campaign in Cilicia in Asia Minor from ca. 11-3 B.C.E. Archer's theory is that Quirinius was given a special assignment to do the census in the interval between Saturninus' and Varus' terms. There is of course no extant evidence for this, but this does not seem to be necessary for the harmonizing that takes place in evangelical "historical" theology. In fact, there is much to say against it. Fitzmyer paraphrases one authority: "…It was unheard of that a proconsul would become a legate…twice in the same province."
I provided a scholarly paper from a university, and you provide me a source from a Christian apologetics organization, where the bias is obviously to convert people to the religion (and also not very accurate). Do better than that, for your sake.
Jaxon Bennett
While I respect Max Stirner and his views, I don't think it's the end all be all. Tell me how Communism/Socialism would hope to solve the existential problems of people? One can live quite well and have his needs satisfied, whilst still be alienated by the world. Also, I don't think anything would be change if the spectacle were to be destroyed.
Perhaps, you should look into Kierkegaard and educate yourself a bit. People should be allowed to believe in what they want to believe in. Your state mandated religion of the cult of supreme being is a shallow representation of what religion is. Hence, You are a complete fool.
Kevin Cox
Answer me that yourself: I never claimed to be a Communist or even Socialist, since my only claims have been for weakening the power of religion.
Sure, let's disallow evolution to be taught in schools because it conflicts with some sincerely held religious beliefs, and let's open some more of those 'Creation Museums'. People believe in it sincerely: therefore, it must be inviolate.
You're the idiot.
Landon Lewis
You could just study philosophy under communism if you weren't satisfied with life.
Robert Peterson
Please, stop straw manning me. I have never argued for a state mandated religion. What I'm trying to say is that anyone should be allowed to believe in what they want to believe in. I don't want some guy telling me what I ought to believe in, so fuck off you fedora with your cult of neo atheism.
Also, a lack of belief in a creator is just as much as a belief as a belief in a creator, so please don't go arguing that burden of proof bull shit. If you don't want burden of proof then simply be an agnostic, don't claim the positive or negative.
… and some philosophers were quite religious? I'm not arguing for a forced religion or mandated religion, all I'm saying is that anyone should be allowed to believe in what they want to believe in.
The theory of evolution is well justified proof by induction, like the rest of science. Evolution should be taught, but philosophy should be taught as well. People should know that science rests on epistemology.
Grayson Walker
And that's idiocy. People will believe in all manner of ridiculous and even harmful/dangerous things if it makes them feel 'good' or assuages some fear or insecurity of theirs, even if it is something that is not possible or true or observable.. So fuck off, you weak-willed apologist with your legends, who would have us accept every superstition as literal truth just to - in essence - keep people's feelings from being hurt and to enable your own religion from ever being touched despite its theological/historical shortcomings.
Tyler Martin
Well, if you don't accept freedom of belief then there is no point to continue on this conversation. Time for you to enforce your ideology of neo atheism because some beliefs are so dangerous that people ought to be killed for having them.
Contrary to what you think, I don't believe the strategy to combat religiosity lies in what amounts to making 'thoughtcrime' punishable, but, rather, better education, especially concerning history. The religions should not be held inviolate, or sacred, and their origins should be fully taught, rather than being mostly reserved for specialists/hobbyists as part of curriculums; their exemptions from taxes should be dissolved (the Church of Scientology is not a tax-exempt entity in a number of European countries on account of its bizarre beliefs, but could anyone come and tell me that Christianity with its resurrecting god-men and virgin births and Islam with its Muhammad ascending to Heaven on a winged horse is less bizarre?). The complete separation of church and state.
Most people believe because they are never exposed to the history behind these religions. It is inarguable that in the U.S., the presence of religious fundamentalists - and even moderate religious observers - is harmful and divisive, and that their influence should be ended.
Luckily, most people are turning away on their own.
