Gotham

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I merely said that it takes some of the shittiness away if you pretend that it's some kind of AU fanfiction. It's still shit, but only 85% shit, as opposed to 100% shit.

I dropped this show in the first season for two reasons. The first is pretty reasonable, they advertised it as a police drama in Gotham city, but most of their episodes boil down to "see this character as a kid? in twenty years they're going to be someone!"

That's not a show, that's a gimmick.

The second though is unacceptable, and that's the character assassination on Jim Gordon. Gordon was his own character from his own funnybook brought into Batman to drum up the numbers. He was always a straight shooting, hard boiled, type doing his best in difficult situations.

So when he was wrestling with knowledge that the GCPD is corrupt (gasp, say it ain't so!) and his wife picks up a phone in front of him to drop a dime to the media and castigate him for not doing the same - when the only way the media could possibly find out about this corruption is if Gordon blabbed and heedless of the potential real danger to life and limb this constitutes - because she's a stronk woyman character?

And he just takes that shit like a bitch?

No fucking thank you.

You know what I'm getting sick and tired of? I'm getting sick of the GCPD always being portrayed as corrupt or flat out useless. Seriously if you're gonna do a police drama don't do that type of shit!

But oh wait I forgot, this isn't a police drama it's a giant ad for a Batman series that doesn't even fucking exist!

The issue as I see it is (again) bad writing. Its become so standard to assume GCPD is dirty that they don't waste any breath on establishing the baseline. Before Gordon even arrived there were good cops in Gotham, they just had a short life expectancy because the mob was the thing that's supposed to be powerful in Gotham. But the show doesn't even show the potency of the Mafia. It harnesses none of the Noir motifs of Gotham City. It's just generically boring as fuck.

It's absolute garbage. I can't imagine any real Batman fan enjoying it.

Explain

He's confusing DC's James Gordon with his pulp namesake, Commissioner Jim "Wildcat" Gordon AKA The Whisperer.

They're two completely separate characters.

Even sadder when you realize this was Fox's answer to Agents of SHIT.

Didn't one of the episodes or a plot involve Baby Selina sneaking into Baby Bruce's house and they meet and it's some sappy childhood love kinda crap?

I recall there being something like that, though probably not that stupid

Actually I believe since DC bought up a lot of the old pulp characters they've combined the two, making James Gordon and Wildcat Gordon the same character across a continuous history, but we're talking about continuity here and that's always a mess.

Wildcat Gordon isn't owned by DC. DC has never owned Wildcat Gordon. When Street & Smith, who produced "The Whisperer" pulps (which were some of the most violent pulps ever written apparently) stopped publication of their pulps in 1949, they sold many of their titles to Popular Publications. Then in 1972, companies rights were sold to Brookside Publications, being sold again in 1981 to Blazing Publications, later known as Argosy Communications, Inc. Finally in 2014, nearly all of their copyrights and intellectual properties were acquired by Steeger Properties, LLC. DC never had their hands on "Wildcat" Gordon.

Even if they had the opportunity, DC wouldn't have been interested. They were a comic company, and pulps were dead the moment Superman hit the scene. So when they started buying up properties in the 40s and 50s, they stuck to comic companies.

And yet DC owns Doc Savage and The Shadow now, and a number of other pulp characters, and owned them well before they were bought out by Warner Bros.

Warner/DC doesn't own Doc Savage or The Shadow. Conde Nast does. The Doc Savage movie is being produced by Sony.

Seriously, where the fuck are you getting this information from?

Dynamite is publishing the new Shadow comics.

He may be confused by the various comics of The Shadow that were produced by DC, probably not knowing that rights owners can license their IPs to other companies.

Ruh-roh

Are they any good?

When has Jim Gordon ever been a pulp hero named the Whisperer? Ever

Some are good. Some are, Dynamite likes to cheap out on the art. Hire Brazilians

I made the last one up.

(checked)

Here's Razorfist making his Shadow comic recommendations.

...

yeah but when it comes to the Shadow the dude knows his stuff and he's pretty passionate about it.

Also this is meant to be Azrael……yeah……

Fuckin cheap ass tv show

You think that's bad, you should see what their version of Mr. Freeze looks like.

so this is a serious dramatic show

I can't see anyone watching the first fucking episode and expecting some kind of serious drama from it. Out of all the comic book shows out on tv, this one is the most "comic-booky" with crazy goofy villains, ridiculous settings, and satirical nonsense everywhere. It's just a goofy fun show pretending to be serious drama.

Someone's probably already said it, but at this point they must just be throwing in every Batman villain they can just to boost ratings

Well, they occasionally try to be as dark and edgy as they can with all their fake Jokers, and shit like that scene where a lady gouges her own eye out for some reason.

Actually, I *almost* like that costume. It's just missing something, like a helmet, or blue skin. It's like a (good) cosplayer who forgot a piece of his costume at home.

It looks like he's wearing parts of a child's halloween costume.

The props department really dropped the ball by making it a sweatshirt and pants with some plastic armor pitifully strapped on.

There are amateur cosplayers who can do better than this. There are pros who would work for pennies to design better armor than that.

I gave on the series one episode after loli Catwoman was introduced, where Gordon raided a child abduction ring, it was boring and not even batshit crazy penguin could save it.
Also, i've seen a webm of the black mobster gouging out her own eye, whats the context for that?

That's Fish Mooney, AKA The Worst Fucking Character On The Entire Show That They Still Brought Back For Some Fucking Reason. She basically did it to prove to some evil doctor that she was a badass or some shit, but it just came off stupid as hell.

The only reason I might ever tune back into the show is if they bring back Sal Maroni and have him violently gut Fish Mooney, chop her into sushi, and then throw the pieces into the ocean during a particularly strong current, so she can wash away and never be found again.

It's like they're recreating the 1966 Batman series, except shitty.

What's she do to be so insufferable?

Why.

THE SUIT IS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME, EXCEPT WITH PLASTIC ARMOR.

so Milo is Mr. Freeze now?

Come on, they "will they won't they" all the time with the Joker. They're messing with the audience

She does that because the Dollmaker wants to use her eyes and she's like "Haha, can't use my eyes now, bitch!"

Because Hugo Strange made a bunch of Super Villains while trying to research how to revive the dead for the Court of Owls.

Honestly, I don't see why people hate Fish Mooney. Is it because she's not a Batman character?

isn't the Joker supposed to be a virus or something in this show?

Here's what we got so far:
Marketing was all like "Look, this kid's the joker!"
Episode airs where this Jerome kid is the murderer who killed his mom for being a slut and he goes nutso at the end
Another episode airs where the Red Hood gang is established. Guy wears the hood, gets notorious, gets killed, someone else finds it, rinse repeat.
Episode ends with kid around Bruce's age getting the hood and miming shooting the police.

Season 2 happens

Jerome is part of a group of villains sprung by the big bad to cause some Chaos
Jerome's daddy says he'll be a plague upon Gotham and his actions will scar the town forever
He goes on TV and pretends to try and kill big bad who is trying to be mayor
Big bad kills him instead
people who watched the broadcast are inspired to let go and be like Jerome, meaning a bunch of people might be the Joker because they were inspired by his anarchist nonsense

Fast forward to part 2 of Season 2
Hugo Strange is bringing the dead back to life by giving them personas to follow. He brings back old big bad by convincing him that he's Azrael.
Jerome is in one of the guy's tubes, meaning he could come back to life with a new identity.

that sounds stupid. Then again they were doing something similar to this in the New 52 with the 3 jokers.

We still have no fucking clue where they're going with it. They actually haven't even shown Joker in Rebirth yet.

the 3 jokers thing was new 52 i think. here's a video on it.

It started at the end of New 52. It's gonna be a thing in Rebirth.

Which was incredibly fucking stupid, and Dr. Dulmacher or whatever the fuck his name was can always just take the other eye.

It's because she is an irritating waste of space that exists for shitty grrl power stuff and to have entire episodes wasted on her pointless exploits on some island that nobody gives a shit about.

also she shot Sal Maroni in what has to be the dumbest scene I've ever seen on television. Even CW would be hard-pressed to top the sheer retardation of that scene

Sadly, this is the best thing DC did after Dark Knight Rises minus the animated Batman movies, which also really started to suck recently.

I can't say often enough how embarrassingly stupid Flash and Legends of Tomorrow are, like shows for toddlers. Sure, Gotham is also very stupid very often (Azrael for example), BUT how some parts of the Batman universe are interpreted and with the Gordon, Bullock, Penguin and Alfred actors, the show keeps entertaining.

Dollmacher. I think its the same guy who cuts off Joker's face in New 52.

She's not that awful, its just that she overstayed her welcome. Especially during the Strange arc, it really gets stupid. She should have stayed away when she ended up at Dollmachers place.

I liked her as an obstacle for Penguin, but not as a recurring character and her dialogue ended up so embarrassing. When she was like "I'm Fish Mooney, bitch!" I was on the floor laughing… but the moment was totally serious. It already annoys me what will happen in the next season, if she isn't killed off in the first two episodes.

Dude, I like that show and I still acknowledge the stupid moments. Toddler fare, this ain't. Not even 90s levels of anti-censorship in cartoons would allow it all.

Not a virus… more an inspiration. I've got one issue with that. The Red Hood in the show is also making people who wear it megalomaniac and crazy. Which means, if the Killing Joke backstory is canon in Gotham, the insanity that inspired the actual Joker combines with the insanity from the red hood. This is kinda stupid, like… stacking the insanity…

It's like Arrow but even worse because it's another Batman show without Batman but doesn't also have a Batman equivalent.

I understand the nostalgic cheese appeal like the old comics, but I can't watch it without facepalming.

The way I see it, the people making the show are having a giggle over people wanting to see Pre-Batman Joker, so they're throwing in a million different red herrings.

First episode had a comedian dressed like Killing Joke guy telling bad jokes at Fish Mooney's bar, too, now that I recall.

but they're offsetting that by introducing his whole rogues gallery in the most shit ways possible

I don't know if this bothers me, but it's bad writing and planning, at least.

I like how Peewee Herman played the Penguin's father in both this & Batman Returns

Well it's a prequel

But it's in its own universe

So it's a prequel to something that doesn't exist and never will.

It seems kinda like they took that "oh JGL's middle name is *Robin* oh I get it haha nice" moment from DKR and built a whole series out of that whole style of cringe? What is it with comic book franchises and this stuff? Stop winking at me you faggot movie or show, I don't want to look up what you're trying to reference I wikipedia.

Why not just make a Batman series? Budget concerns and the inevitable unfavorable comparisons?

WB want the only Live-Action Batman to be the one from the films

Bullshit. Penguin for example is very young. Mr. Freeze doesn't age (I think they mentioned it) in Gotham. So I think the villians like Szaz are mid-30s when Bruce is Batman in his 20s. He starts his training much earlier than in the usual canon.

We already have a perfect one.

I'm more pissed off at the fact that they're doing a villain, WHO DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL BATMAN WAS IN HIS WHAT? THIRD YEAR OF CRIMEFIGHTING?

Fuck this show with a goddamn red hot chainsaw.