Vegetarianism?

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So is inefficiency and waste.

this tbh

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news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

sorry, *vegetarianism.

3d printed meat soon, comrade
youtube.com/watch?v=-RgI_bcETkM

There is no ethical practices. We will always be wasting food on raising livestock.

Didn't say that. Meat industry is inherently wasteful in itself though.

Look up energy content, food chains etc.

there is no need to be 100% efficient. just efficient enough to be sustainable and not totally fuck the earth. I won't defend the current factory farming methods, they definitely do need to change, but just because there's a more efficient way to generate nutrients for the human species, doesn't mean we must focus entirely on that; there's something to be said for having access to pleasures in life. Unless of course, you're one of those anti fun leftists who give us a bad name.

kirie-chan a qt

anyway, i like meat, but some people don't, and that's fine for them–as to your arguments, efficiency in agricultural production continues to increase, and we already produce enough food to amply feed everyone in the world–it's just that so much of it, especially in developed countries, ends up going to waste

I eat meat. If revolutionaries wanted me to go vegetarian, I probably would. If they said go vegan, I would be mildly displeased.

Either way, I hate to be a moralist here but factory farming is pure insanity. If we can do away with that, and just eat less meat, I think it would be fine.

Every reason to be vegetarian is "lifestylism". If you believe that individual actions cannot affect the world, then the best thing to do is maximise your own personal happiness regardless of how anyone else feels.

At least get it right you moron.

so you mean we need a complete agricultural change including elimination of factory farms?

*bullys you*

First of all, Rebel, you are still nomenclature. You prove it every post.

1. We need to stop overproduction and overconsumption of meat. Not meat entirely.

2. Robots can herd just fine.

3. See 1.

kirie-chan is Tomoko for normies

every vegetarian I've come across (and there's one in my family) became so because they went to a farm or something, then they feel superior because "it's reality"

Sigh.

Yes, I think so. hydroponic sky scraper farms and 3d printed meat, fam.

Could it be because Capitalism, Idustilazition and … ALIENATION???

I grew up in a "farm" (small for home production only, in extra small village) and I eat meat just fine. I've seen animal slaughtered and skinned and even helped skin a bunny once.

But the security of the city and the entitlement of alienation is causing people to be like "oh, I am a superior human! I cannot be eating animals! I am better than them and have to care for them!"

It doesn't matter if raising livestock is inefficient. In a communist society, where most people would most likely want meat, it would be an acceptable luxury because the amount of labor power otherwise spent on useless consumer goods or that isn't automated would make raising livestock a trivial matter. Never mind when technological advances make it possible to clone animals or 3D print meat or grow steaks in test tubes.

Though obviously it would have to be better than the Auschwitz-tier standards of the capitalist meat industry.

i'd just support campaigning for meat on weekends only or something, the amounts of meat eaten nowadays aren't healthy, especially regarding to fast food with low quality meat

That's a bit too far. Just encourage people to maybe eat a bit less meat and find other sources of protein. Meat only on weekends is ludicrous.

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I think the following points could help:
1. Enforce standards for meat sold in any form
2. Ensure livestock are put to death painlessly
3. Ensure acceptable living and feeding conditions for livestock prior to slaughter

We make the system better as well as encourage people to not gorge themselves then it will get better,

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How is pic related though?

In case you're not trolling:

Is having automation help us build a better society, by removing false and unimportant choise and letting us focus on more important activities, authoritarian?

Is having 50 brands of butter to choose from, freedom?

Giving each and every person a precise state decided diet would not only be a bureaucratic nightmare but would also be damn near unenforceable. And yes, the whole having over 9000 brands ofmthensame thing is excessive, the extreme opposite is not the answer.

But I said, database and algorithms.

We can do EXACTLY what Lenin failed to do and had to do NEP.

Also, I said, PERSONILIZED diet, decided by the algorithms and according to the database.

Not even a vegetarian, but you realise we have vitamin supplements, yes?

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Jesus Christ morality is not spooky, it can be backed up by logic. How many times must this be repeated?
Sage for gay thread.

Did they?

Fuck off tripfag

Or, we could not do with such a bloated resource sink and let the idiots weed themselves out. people get fat, don't fix it and die of heart disease all the time, going full nanny state is totalitarian as fuck

Space is not an issue

That is true, but we already have more than enough to feed everyone on the planet more than enough.

True. But i like meat more than i would like a car, so sorry not sorry.

Anyway, i look forward to the day we can grow meat in labs/vats. Cheaper, more efficient and no vegans whining about poor cows being killed.

1. Land usage isn't really a problem. Most proles have homes, and even those who don't have places to live available but can'afford them.

2.I don't see why livestock farming couldn't be mostly automated.

3.A legitimate point

I was a vegetarian for 4 years up until about 1-2 weeks ago as I know that ethical consumption won't end the meat industry. I still eat mainly vegetarian for health reasons but if there is nothing else I won't stop myself.

When you cook mushroom soop for the commune, and one doesn't wanna eat cause you added bacon.

Why not hunt animals, rather than farm them, if you're upset about the waste of energy that is farmed meat? Animal populations often rise and fall independent of predator population, which is why the US state I live in is able to harvest 200,000 wild deer every year and the population continues to rise. Ideally, you want to keep this population at half carrying capacity, setting bag limits and such.
A
communist system could be implemented, where those who enjoy hunting could kill an estimated number of a species in a way that wouldn't affect the species'populations too drastically, and this meat could be distributed to the whole society. Animals killed to protect farmland and airports and the like, farmland of course which would already be reduced because you're no longer farming animals, could also be used for meat. These are already done and yet often times the meat goes to waste because it can't legally be sold (which is a good thing tbh because it could really encourage poaching).

I almost never eat meat, but when I save enough money up to get into hunting I intend to rely entirely on wild animals for my meat, in case you care.

Bacon is disguisting and unhealthy and the number one reason I will vote for Shillary to keep Trump out of office. I will convert to islamic communism if I have to.

no but there is more ethical consumption

because not everyone can live off hunting unless we drastically reduce the population

I cut it so thin and boil it and mix it and you can't even see it.

I'LL MAKE ALL MUSLIMS EAT BACON!

Yes, but not meat. If everyone ate meat at the same frequency as the first world we wouldn´t even be close to producing enough.

Cloned synthetic meat would fix a lot of problems with the meat industry.

You still don't know what that word means.

No matter what technological advances you make you're not going to break the 1st law of thermodynamics. Energy content is much more efficient with crops, and less with animals, because the animals have to eat the crops.

t. physicist

You failed to understand what spooky means.

It's not about automation. It's a simple fact of biology, as a food chain continues energy content decreases.

this.

The word you're looking for is "bourgeois", because "bourgeoisie" refers to not a concept but a group of people.

We're gonna be eating way less meat in the future no matter what, its environmentally unsustainable, better get used to meat free monday through friday and 100g steaks on sunday.

I went vegan last year and i'm vegetarian now, just do it nigger.

Unless your food came from a commune or cooperative, no one gives a shit, socialism has nothing to do with it, and you're still supporting capitalism. Being a vegetarian means fuck-all.

You are now Nomenclature with Rebel, in my list!

NO YOU DAMN DEGENERATES!
WE WILL NOT STOP EATING MEAT!

WE WILL KEEP SLAUGHTERING ANIMALS!

I think vegetarianism is overkill. We just need a new mindset that meat is a flavoring rather than a main course.

I only like vegetarianism because I can have some fun by "Spotting The Vegan" ;^)

Being vegetarian isn't inherently socialist. Everybody in the world could go vegetarian over night and Capitalism would still continue.

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Only actual problem, a part of the capitalists would have.

They would then have to invest elsewhere and make people poorer.

Only when I agree with it. :^)

The food/meat industry sucks but sustainable farming with plants and animals is how it actually developed. Seems weird to throw it all out, because the retard land whale that couldn't possibly survive in the wild might have feelings.

The propaganda about meat being magically less efficient than 100% plant crop agriculture is highly flawed, and shares many of the same problems as biofuel advocacy's nonsensical ERoEI calculations.

The people that make these sorts of ridiculous claims have no understanding of physics or ecology, and fail to appreciate the fact that while some parts of agriculture's manmade ecosystem are more efficiently done with plants, others are more efficiently done with animals.

Who else here vegan/vegetarian simply because eating corpses is kinda ghoulish?

The basis of morality is compassion, and compassion is subjective - the abolition of some base level imposition of morality is not only illogical, but impossible, people will always retain some ability to feel compassion. However, as far as being compassionate is subjective, so is morality.

Dammit rebel not only are you a fake christian but you're a fucking vegetarian as well now?

Not eating meat is the same logic as voting in an election or 'voting with your money'. It's dumb and is a waste of time.

Not eating meat makes NO DIFFERANCE to the problem of farming constructed by capitalism.

Besides, you only have one life as it is. Why are you wasting it by avoiding meat? You're already avoiding sex and drugs so by this point you may as well just kill yourself. It's not like you would be able to tell the difference in pleasure between the two states of life and death anyway.

but it means I shit like clockwork and when I wake up in the morning I jump out of bed.

Also I can fuck longer now.

Its the egoists choice.

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you do if you are too lazy/poor to eat good quality meat

independent.co.uk/news/science/red-meat-processed-life-expectancy-cancer-glasgow-diet-a7004266.html this is my homeland nigga that shit gonna kill me

You could just work out.

Also the main thing about eating unhealthily is buying the processed, frozen pre made shit that most people eat these days. Of course it's cheaper but you really cant live on that shit. Literally it will kill you eventually. Find some money to get the ingredients to make your own food and get slightly better quality meat.

I know that sounds shitty but hey, I didnt invent capitalism.

I work out. I run 10k a week, row 10k a week and lift weights.

I do

1) Its expensive, I shop in Lidl, not waitrose.
2)Where it is cheap, it is incredibly difficult to source.
3) For this extra price, I could eat 2-3 extra vege meals a week, trust me, I used to eat meat, I know my expenditures.

Also, crops lend themselves well to full automation, cows don't.

Well it's a financial thing then yea I get eating more vegetables over meat. I just dont get refusing to eat meat at all even if you get the chance to have it.

if you don't where it came from chances are in the UK its shite.

Which is why I will refuse nearly all meat.

I'm open to it, the only reason I'm not vegetarian is that my girlfriend is a south American carnivore, she has meat with almost every meal

I'm glad you've made it a year as a vegetarian. I think you will find it easy to stay that way for many more years, if you can look past the social pressures. People will get very defensive about their meat-eating on the internet, but as I'm sure you've experienced if you live in a Western country, basically no one cares or even notices vegetarians and vegans unless you specifically bring it to their attention.

Obviously, I don't believe my being vegan harms the meat industry in any way. But I don't avoid doing other things I think are wrong because I expect the whole world will follow my lead either. I don't think anyone who isn't delusional thinks that way about anything. I don't know why vegetarianism is held to this standard of "your individual actions must change the world or else it's pointless" when nothing else is.

The benefits for workers are more or less as you describe. The raising of livestock is also hugely more water intensive than growing just growing crops. Though I don't think people will ever stop eating meat and dairy, but I think it could easily become a much smaller part of the typical western diet than it is now. It seems that meatless diets are steadily becoming a more popular choice for whatever reason and the WHO coming out and saying that certain processed red meats are literally cancerous may help that trend along some.

I don't see any good reason for most people to eat meat, apart from desperate circumstances. The hedonist's argument doesn't even hold. I really doubt I get less pleasure from eating what I eat than people who eat meat, and I'm statistically less likely to die of heart disease for it (you might be able to cherry pick studies that say otherwise, but as far as I know the preponderance of the evidence agrees with me).

I'm a vegan and have been one for about 3 years. Before that I was a vegetarian for about 10 years. I'm an environmentalist and an animal rights activist. In other words, veganism matters to me. It is important on a personal level.

That being said, I am also a socialist and a radical. And it is my view that the one has little or nothing to do with the other. Veganism is a personal, ethical statement, and like user here says it's pretty much just consumer activism and doesn't actually do anything but make one feel better about oneself. That's not wrong as such, but confusing it with revolutionary, political acts is both misguided and dangerous.

Now, the reduction of meat consumption CAN be part of a political program. But as user here argues, though I don't fully agree with everything he says, world-wide veganism is neither possible nor necessarily desirable. I'd argue in stead in favour of a switch to sustainable, organic animal agriculture, where one refrains from using land that could be used to grow crops. Because in this case the vegan anons are right, it's a simple matter of physics: if you can use a piece of land to grow something that can directly feed humans, but instead grow something to feed animals that you then eat, you are not being energy efficient per definition. But, if you instead utilise land that is useless for growing crops, you become MORE efficient and capture even more total solar energy then if you'd been completely vegan.

Also, I'd be in favour or an increased reliance on hunting, even though I would not do it myself. Taken together with the above, this would both increase the well-being of the animals and the quality of the meat, as well as greatly reduce environmental problems.

I don't derive disproportionate amounts of pleasure from consuming flesh. Pigs are comparably intelligent to dogs, and I refuse to eat dogs from a standpoint of "I wouldn't eat my friends," so I only think it is "logical" to extend that to other beings who exhibit moderate levels of emotional intelligence (cow, pork, even some species of bird, octopus, etc). For these reasons, I refuse to eat most meat when given the chance. I still consume eggs, dairy, and most seafood

That being said I mostly agree with these anons.

I think if you eat meat, you should at least go hunting occasionally so as to avoid alienation from what eating animals fully entails. Since I eat fish, I try to go fishing at least occasionally.

Like I said, plant and animal use in agriculture are deeply synergistic, massively increasing efficiency of both and producing useful products for humans at every stage of their production. Not to mention the many uses of living things, both plants and animals, outside agriculture (architecture, civic and land management, refuse management) to increase efficiency and recover waste. But you don't have to take my word for it, this article covers some of what I've said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production

Regarding organic permaculture more generally, let's not forget that plant agriculture utterly dwarfs animal agriculture in terms of environmental impact. The split between plants and animals in agriculture, and between industry and agriculture, are just some of the problems produced by the ill-conceived design that pervades conventional agriculture. The way most plant crops are grown, from their massive dependence on finite reserves of fossil fuels/fertilizers and aquifer water, to their poorly planned erosion management, is a continuous disaster in slow motion.

Hopefully you gather roots, berries, and cut down lumber, too, to prevent alienation from the inhumane treatment of vegetation in the uncaring cogs and wheels of the industrial consumer system.😒

Stop this meme.
youtube.com/watch?v=Rioh-LqrEwU
youtube.com/watch?v=q_uor8oxrAg

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Eat stuff alive then, thats how some people like it.

I could be vegetarian, but I don't think I could be a vegan, there's too many yummy things I'd have to forego, milk, cream, butter, eggs etc

Maybe in the future there will be synthetic substitutes

Shouldnt you be outside and start an revolution?

Why are you upset about people shitting on Che shirt wearing liberals and self-theory morons who are not any better than tumblr theorists?

Who bug meat here?
I don't like fish(I love crustaceans though), poultry and red meat, but I really love insects.
I don't think there is really a good argument against eating insects.

Yes. Keep weakening yourselves, cucks.

I'm interested. Where are you from? What insects do you eat, how much and how do you prepare them?

I ate living ants when I was like 8 years old, haven't really looked back fondly.

There is no difference in what form of life you consume.

The life of a carot is equally unimportant to the life of a cow.

Only reason we don't eat user, is we have better things to do with user.

porky thanks you for being scientifically ignorant enough to insist on arbitrary nutritional choices that cost extra and do not actually deliver the implied benefits over alternatives

Sounds like an almost spiritual approach. IMO going from congnitive ability, especially the capacity to experience suffering, is the only reasonably materialist approach. And in that case I fail to see how we can justify causing a being to suffer if and when there are viable alternatives to doing so.