Frameworks

MEAN is a software stack that contains TWO FRAMEWORKS.

Fucking retards I swear.

Express is a framework, mean is a collection of technologies.

Angular is also framework.

I guess, but it's a front-end framework. In my opinion it's dogshit but if you don't mind making your site useless with no-js, sure.

Only retards think no one else is able to work without frameworks only because they can't.

I can work without a framework. I've done so quite a few times, though I was being paid and not making the decisions.

The problem is larpers on Holla Forums rage against frameworks, which are an important tool especially when you're working alone and don't have a large team. Even with a large team they cut down time to implementation drastically.

Believe me, your shitty internal tools that you're so proud of are no better than, for example, OwnCloud.
If anyone serious looked anything that's not just a pure file server you've implemented outside of a framework, that you're so proud of, you'd be laughed at.

This isn't even getting into the apparent strawman you faggots parrot that once you've bought into a framework you're stuck with the framework. Which isn't true at all.

The point is that frameworks are the best way to go. The bullshit about "speed" is like faggots larping about "I NEED TO GO SO CLOSE TO THE METAL MAYNE I'M AN ASSEMBLY PROGRAMMER VROOM VROOM."

You are just using the armchair developers as a strawman to defend awful and unnecessary software.

And believe me, by work is better than any available web framework.

They're a community collaboration, usually with best practices.
There's not much of a learning curve beyond "how do I route", "where are my templates", "which architectural pattern is recommended, should I go with it?"
lmao, no.
Champ, you don't seem to understand that reimplementing the basics every time is what leads to being exposed to vulnerabilities.
And if you don't reimplement the basics every time, chances are you're using your own framework that you've written, or a small framework someone else has written.

Do not fucking pretend that you're better off spending every project doing any number of basic tasks, from the ground up. Go larp somewhere else.

Yeah such as banning all white men from working on the project

The basics are covered by specific libraries to handle these basics.
That is NOT the purpose of frameworks, frameworks are meant to put the whole software on a rail.

You know that Django is not the only python framework, right?
It's definitely not that much 'on a rail' either.

But that's wrong, you fucking retard.
There are small frameworks, that pretty much just handle middleware and routing, and there are large frameworks.
No software using Flask as a framework is on a rail, for example.
Just because Ruby on Rails is a fucking monstrosity doesn't mean that frameworks are bad.

It's all a framework to write your application. Basic patterns to get started, basic middleware, and so on.

You're not special, you're not unique, and I guarantee your internal tools are dogshit. Much like the fucking retarded third-world pajeets who admin this website.

M8, if you need a fucking framework for basic stuff like that, you are EXACTLY what I talked about enabling bad developers to write mediocre software.
Might as well use leftpad.js too.

Django is terrible. Badly written and badly designed framework which makes your web apps terrible unless you are doing very basic shit. Use Flask for python.

You don't need a framework, as I already said.
Morons do it all the time, willingly.
I prefer not to spend time reimplementing the same thing every project. It's best practice. I pick the right toolbox, and tools, for the job.
I don't spend hours creating a new toolbox and crafting tools each time.

For python, I don't like Django, but to say it's terrible when many high traffic websites you use are grounded in software based on it, is just flat out wrong.

i.e. Disqus and Mozilla Addons, for starters. I know there's plenty more.

What kind of things are you talking about? What kind of boilerplate would require hours of work and wouldn't be covered by a sensible library?

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Many high traffic websites I use are grounded in PHP, including this one. PHP is shit and so is this website's software.

Pretty sure you can perform server-side rendering with angular.

Why would you do that when you could use react?

Why would you do that when you could use HTML+CSS?

Unless you are talking about a fallback on the server, that makes no fucking sense.

what about golang with gorilla framework?

because you want to make a responsive website?

I know at least react is set up to work well server-side, but I know less about angular

Fuck off, pajeet

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use flask tbh.

flask.pocoo.org/

Reac isn`t a library, its a framework.

this is better
mojolicious.org/

wrong, it's a library

facebook.github.io/react/

That's the most horrifying URL I've seen all day.

its literally made of memes

i'll stick with flask, thanks.

mojolicious
perl is dead m8. too few companies use it now to make it worth my time.

flask lets you code python and flask is used by large companies which makes it worth knowing wrt jobs. it's straightforward to code with and it has some nice tools that come with it.

That's a lot of text just to say "perl is too hard for me"

what does perl offer me that python doesn't at this point m8? perl failed to adapt and python usurped it. stay butthurt with your dead language m8.

what does python offer that perl doesn't?

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wrong on all accounts, better luck next time pajeet

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Frameworks exist because it's sensible to put together a framework of common computing solutions that's intended for general applications. The vast majority of website-based Internet applications are easily solved by using a website framework. If you have an application that has more specific requirements that what was given in the framework, it's sensible to develop a brand new custom solution from scratch rather than relying on the general form of the framework.

Heh, sounds like Pajeet's getting mad. Only shitty coders would reuse standard boilerplate code that you need for an application that makes use of a database.

Wow, it's a programming genius. Keep programming friend.

Responsive design is so much easier without javascript.
Probably my biggest mistake in web development was when I included the full jQuery library for a simple image slider with 3 pictures.
csscience.com/responsiveslidercss3/

The problem is that edgy retards who larp think that people actually use opinionated frameworks every single time.
Perhaps they got burned either because they couldn't learn something very quickly or they picked the wrong tool.
Like the "science" of estimating software development, it's imperfect. Until you have a solid ground of experience, you can't really tell which tools are better for what. Frameworks are just a tool. If you want to go ahead and create new tools every time, that's your perogative.
But, to generalize, there are opinionated frameworks and there are less opinionated frameworks.
Your ultimate end game is to become experienced enough to be able to make those calls, all of which draw from the resources at your disposal, which can include, but is not limited to:
1. the knowledge you hold, and that everyone who's working on the problems
2. time
3. software that's already written
4. hardware (and future considerations based on it)

There is nothing wrong with using a tool, if it's the right tool for a job. You can even use the wrong tool for a job.
But mostly the people who bitch about frameworks when it comes to "muh speed" don't really know what they're talking about. Abstraction does come at a price, but it's not usually a real world price.
And if it is, there's usually tools made by smarter people than you, again, to help soften the blow.

And this isn't even getting into languages. Sure, some languages are "SLOW". But compared to any other solution in the same language, the abstraction of the framework itself shouldn't really come at much of a price. But even then, there are tools to help soften the fact that you've used a high level, "SLOW" language to speed up time to implementation.

In the end, it's just that you need to have the experience to not pick a tool that ends with you trying to use a hammer to work with a screw.

Django.

MongoDB is garbage.

FLASK 4LIFE

javascript? python? ruby? All too mainstream.

phoenixframework.org/
seaside.st/
chicagoboss.org/
adacore.com/aws/

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Arguably using a framework is unnecessary clutter in Go. Just look at stdlib http and httptest packages and you will find the only thing you are missing is maybe a router, if you need dynamic paths.

Seaside has one fucking ugly website.