On "hate speech"

jacobinmag.com/2016/05/donald-trump-school-teachers-students-children/

Just finished reading this article and I'm not too keen on it. On one hand, she's obviously right that the pluralistic "all opinions are equal" notion is bullshit, as is the "marketplace of ideas". But while I'm obviously not a Trump supporter, I'm mixed at best at her claims of:

A: Trump being a unique, and uniquely awful threat, compared to other political figures.

B: The ability of teachers to act as she implores them to–there are the obvious pressures and difficulties, but moreover there are obviously many teachers whose political views wouldn't be to Miller's liking.

C: The idea that "hate speech" is inherently foreign and alien and something that must be shut down–I feel this would block us from understanding it, could set a precedent to block leftist speech, and, of course, the boundaries of what is "hate speech" and what is not are very difficult to determine.

Other urls found in this thread:

archive.is/1BZJx
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm
youtu.be/PV_PLCC6jeI
youtu.be/xvhBoF_pCHo
youtu.be/5484y_Jythk
youtu.be/CL7QxF12S8g
bunkermag.org/real-speech-free-speech/
jacobinmag.com/2014/09/death-to-the-gamer/
jacobinmag.com/2014/10/in-defense-of-gamers/
jacobinmag.com/author/ian-williams/
telegraph.co.uk/news/yourview/1540929/Why-are-young-British-Muslims-more-radical-than-their-parents.html

Sounds like standard SJW tripe and their frozen fruit meme.

Once you make violation of free speech a norm it will get turned against you eventually. A good example of this is all of the European countries with speech law restrictions, as soon as the right gets in power they start attacking the left with everything they have using laws which are already on the books. Poland and Hungary being good examples.

Anti-Trumpism is the current boogeyman of American politics. It's a lot easier for liberals to be anti-Trump than pro-Bernie, which is exactly why they're more concerned with cracking down on 'hate speech' instead of supporting the reverse. It's like how 'radicalism' has become the new watchword for anything that has the potential to upset the current political hegemony in America and Europe. Everyone has the ability to become 'radicalized', so /naturally/ we need more laws to increase 'security' and crack down on political opposition to the capitalist state apparatus.

Know any articles discussing this topic in favor of free speech?

The author is clueless but that's fine.

Literally the same failed mentality that transcends politics, time and space.

Yup. Jacobin is an odd magazine. They post a lot of good anti idpol stuff and then every once in a while they post a flurry of sjw articles. There movie reviews are usually the absolute worst.

archive.is/1BZJx

To be fair, terrorists have set their sights on Europe since they discovered that their domestic security is laughable at best

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woah, this is cool.

As a foreginer for me it comes down to a simple question: Will Trump start a war for fuck all reasons and will that war destabilize an entire region for decades to follow?

If the answer is no then Trump isn't as bad as Bush.

Now remove thy trip and accept stalin into your heart :o)

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

I have my worries about Hillary on that count

If Trump starts a war, he gonna destabilize the planet and bring Posadism to us!

But, yes. Hillary is more possible to actually fuck a region up, again.

Ok, if i can expand my point, I get that Hillary is more likely to act as a puppet for Wall Street corporate interest, but the information we are really missing is: How much has Trump sunk in this crazy presidential power trip? Is he just pretending to be insane?

To put it in concrete terms: what are the odds of president Trump waking up in a bad mood and deciding to annex Canada? Or Mexico for that matter?

About the same as Clinton

Hillary is not only a corporate shill. She's an incredible war monger. Her blood lust is basically insatiable. She's much more likely then Trump to start a nuclear war.
youtu.be/PV_PLCC6jeI
youtu.be/xvhBoF_pCHo
youtu.be/5484y_Jythk

She probably can't orgasm without hearing news of people dying at this point.

TRUMP WILL MAKE FALLOUT REAL!

I don' t think she's ever been able to. Listen to how she talks about defending a child rapist.
Skip to 21:40
youtu.be/CL7QxF12S8g
She's a violent sociopath. The fact that she actually has a good chance of being president of the United States shows how fucked up this country is.

Not an america, not really sure how your justice system works. care to explain how this puts hillary in an especially bad light? Every lawyer will defend criminals at some point is his/her career.

I think Trump just won my vote.

Yeah, I'd vote for Trump over her even if he actually had said racist shit. He's a blowhard egotist but I don't think he's a sociopath.


I think comrade is referring to her laughing about it all, when she knows he's guilty and the girl got raped.

It'd not the fact that's she defended him. I think we can all agree that the right to due to process is incrediblly important regardless of the crime. Its an essential right in the American legal system and one of the key factors behind the war of independence. So yes many lawyers will defend someone that is most likely guilty of a crime. That isn't the problem I have. Its the glee she seems to have describing the case that's really getting under my skin.

Hate speech is nothing more than another phrase for wrong think.

If you're position is truly correct then you should be able to prove it. If you can't then you should research it more and be open to the probability that you're wrong.

But some people won't be convinced of some things if Jesus physically descended from the heavens and told them personally. They are going to spout they're bullshit wherever they're given a soapbox to do so. This is an unfortunate reality that people are just going to have to get over, and we can't limit free speech because of it.

Besides, any group sufficiently bullshitting themselves into believing something proven wrong will eventually drive themselves into a secluded echo chamber (stormfront, Holla Forums, freethoughtblogs, tumblr, etc.) where they pretty much stay put and the rest of the world doesn't have to deal with them. If Trump is elected and fails miserably the Trumpettes will crawl back into the hole they came from once they realize no one is buying their snake oil. It's a self correcting problem.

This board is an echo chamber too anyway, so your argument can be pretty much used on everyone here as well.

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Nah, I used to browse other leftist websites and I'd say there is a good variety of thought here. Unlike here most leftist sites ban Holla Forumsacks and other right-wing types.

Eva a shit.

bunkermag.org/real-speech-free-speech/

Essentially, it posits that the difference between "free, condoned speech" and "restricted, condemned speech" is not a legal one emerging from law, but a practical one emerging from the desperation of the speaker.

If you are allowed to speak but nobody cares, you are censored. If you are persecuted for your speech but everyone hangs on your words, you have free speech.

Read this article earlier and it's basically a long whinge about the fact that using one's position as a teacher to overtly indoctrinate other people's children with one's own politics is frowned upon. (I'm well aware that capitalist indoctrination is already the norm however)

There never seems to be any thought given to the possibility that if you allow teachers to directly engage with politics in the classroom, that it may not always be people who agree with them who are dictating what is and isn't permitted. Even if you take a neutral approach and allow it regardless of the type of politics is being pushed, you now have a system which allows a kooky right wing teacher to tell little Benny that Jesus endorses President Trump and wants kebab removed from America.

Never mind that pushing this shit in education seems like a great way to get public school funding cut even more than it already has been.

You know most Holla Forums shitposting here was readily deleted or bumplocked. I'm fairly certain it still is too.

a decent amount is, but a large amount gets through

Holla Forums has a huge problem with taking bait so easily

forgot my crab :(

Hillary is much more likely to start a war than Trump.

Whatever your opinion on Trump, he's campaigning an isolationist platform. He does want to work with the Russians to bomb ISIS but otherwise keep our troops home.

Hillary on the other hand was directly involved in nationwrecking in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. She and the rest of the Dem/Rep elite want to invade Syria and fight Russia to protect ISIS, John Kerry this week "warned" The Syrian government that there will be "consequences" if they retake Aleppo from terrorists.

"Hate speech" laws are in effect active throughout the mainstream internet, and our political speech is repressed on most forums and websites. Look at how Reddit axed Coontown and other "racist" subs, or Youtube and Facebook's "hate speech" policies. The German government and Facebook are even working together to crack down on illegal hate speech online.

We don't isolate ourselves on places like Holla Forums because we can't handle other opinions. Most of us are exposed to the mainstream narrative every day, multiculturalism is basically the state ideology of the modern West. The rest of the internet and mainstream media/academia is a giant safe space from US, not the other way around.

That is so correct I could hug you.

odd, indeed

cry me a fucking river Holla Forums

Not that Holla Forums isn't a torture chamber torture chamber inside the free microcosm that is Holla Forums, but he's absolutely correct about the rest of the net and society. That sort of enforced censorship is incredibly dangerous, both because of the tensions it creates, and the fact that its apparatus could be turned against anyone its masters decide to in the future.

Those subs were incredibly racists Holla Forums just like your board is. So don't bother with the quotation marks. Just becuase we don't buy sjw nonsense doesn't mean we buy into your retarded brand of idpol. Not that we think that means we think corporations have the right to censor you for have shit opinions. You have just as much right is SRS to shitpost about idpol.

Odd? No it is an awful social justice rag. Have all of you forgotten that they did a gamers are dead article in solidarity with literally who?

that was two years ago who fucking cares

they've had multiple perspectives, but a lot of the main people there (especially sunkara and kilpatrick) are critical of liberal idpol

It's called "having different writers", fam.

I mean, they had Kareem Abdul-Jabar on to write something once, you thing he's a commie? Hell no.

I actually did not know this, got an (archive) link? If that's true they can go fuck themselves.

jacobinmag.com/2014/09/death-to-the-gamer/
jacobinmag.com/2014/10/in-defense-of-gamers/

Well Trump's specific problems of "where are all the rapists coming from" aren't just related to hate speech, its related to his autism and the gullibility of his supporters

Gamergate related articles that aren't retarded alt right drivel = sjw

I'd like to call them alarmism agents

jacobinmag.com/author/ian-williams/
It's just some pretentious fuckwit that submitted a few articles about le soggy knees geeks.

IT'S BS!
THE JACOBIN IS BS BOURGIE SHIT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUAL PROLS OF THE WESTER WORLD!


And we all know how "Secure" 'Murica is. Cause if they wanna do it, they'll not find a way.

I don't think they have Western support as much as Western powers sort of let it happen so they can have their police state policies. The funding comes from rich-ass monarchs in the Middle East, and their wealth makes them untouchable.
It's like 9/11, the US government didn't do it but you really think the Bush administration would stop it?

See
Those articles are from years ago when Jacobin published a lot of submitted works because they needed the exposure. Now they have much higher quality standards.

PC weenies have, in their attempts to find people fluent in foreign cultures they wish to protect against "cultural imperialism" (even if that consists of renowned Arab secularists human rights activists), cherry-picked the absolute worst representatives for that culture and given them power over their communities. The insane overcorrection of against the slightest perceived European chauvinism has actually caused many European Muslim ghettos to be more religiously fundamentalist than the 3rd world nations they're emigrating from:
telegraph.co.uk/news/yourview/1540929/Why-are-young-British-Muslims-more-radical-than-their-parents.html

Radicals might not need to smuggle anything in if PC weenies allow something even worse to spawn from within the "safe spaces" they've created for their vision of "authentic" Muslim culture.

Sound like they're doing it on purpose to create the boogyman the brownshirts want. I feel dark times are ahead.

Gamerghazi pls

you okay buddy

Comrade pls

They're all hot. Who cares. I fap to drawings of all of them. No need to fight.

Ye, am fine. … BUT I HATE THE JACOBIN!

Also, SEE? Am not the only one to say it!
agrees!
She IS worst grill!

Hard to say. I mean, was the backslide in Arab secularism in NATO allies during the Cold War an intentional conspiracy to create the wars we're fighting now, or just hamhanded anti-Warsaw Pact meddling?

I think porky just wants cheap domestic slaveimmigrant labor in the most desperate conditions possible, and SJWs make good ablative armor for these efforts by deflecting working class anti-neoliberalism as "racism", so porky just gives the SJWs free reign to do whatever they want. The growth of the alt-right is just an unintended side-effect, judging from the Tories/CDU-CSU/etc reaction to them, they're seen by porky as too weak to realistically interfere.

I wonder why young Muslims, disconnected from.their home culture, feel this way.

That seems more of a problem with Britain than anything

I think variety doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't am echo chamber when people of certain opinions can just be given a copy and paste response that shuts down whatever they are saying.

And so on

Same reason young 'Muricans turn to Holla Forums.

EXACT same reason.

That's something most leftists I interact with don't understand, if they start censoring free speech they're not gonna go after the guys screaming "Nigger, nigger,nigger" they're gonna come after the Marxists and Anarchists

So not the fact that they are treated like criminals.just by being practicing Muslims? Or because they are poor and/or frustrates with the system and just want to fuck shit up? Its only their religion? But their parents aren't more radical despite having deeper ties to more a orthodox religious background?

Because the imams and other community leaders approved by the PC weenie European governments and NGOs are exceptionally radical, and the compact nature of ghettos created by anti-assimilationist PC ideology magnifies their power inside its microcosm. Moderate Muslims and Arab secularists are chased away from positions of influence and power by PC calls of "cultural imperialism", "inauthenticity" and "islamophobia". Attempts to escape from the ghetto and its corrosive fundamentalist influence, to enter mainstream European society, are impeded by crab pot mentality and powermongering fundie demagogues.

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to assimilate, which is not the same as integrating. Muslims in Europe have two options, give up everything about their identities–no matter how harmless or benign–or fuck off to the containment zone. The US hasn't had these same problems because they are only expected to fit into society, not conform to it entirely.

Terrorists are a different matter entirely: they are not caused by cultural, religious or economic strife. They are a psychological problem. New recruits to ISIS are usually young nihilistic men that want to die with a sense of meaning and be known worldwide for their actions, a promise that the media never fails to deliver. Devout Muslims rarely bother.

Heh, yes, I didn't mean assimilate in that sense.

Just a heads up for anyone who reads this and takes it to be a statement of infallibility from Marx himself–this is written during Marx's radical democrat phase. This is prior to any engagement with socialist thought and most definitely prior to Marx even comprehending the peculiarity of capital as a distinct, discrete social formation.

This is the liberal Marx–a revolutionary only in the eyes of the authoritarian German state.

Marxism is a secular religion. Think critically instead of being ideological.

People go apeshit over Hillary and I don't really know why. She's really not as bad as people make her out to be. She's going to be more or less another four years of Obama.

No she's absolutely awful. It's actually debatable which one is worse. Her or Trump. She is a complete psychopath. See this post.

Say hi to David Brock for me

kek, Hillary is literally pulling a China with that 50 cent army bullshit.

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