how do we deal with good bourgeoisie like elon musk? an argument ive seen people telling is that leftists always see the world in only black and white: proles and bourgeois, good and bad, oppressed and oppressors. now i agree that modern society is definitely made up of the oppressors and the oppressed, and that there should be a revolution, and we should burn all the rich people, but what about the nice ones like elon? he created tesla, and is hated by the oil porkies for promoting electric cars. tesla also helps replace the hybrid with an even more eco-friendly option.
Most "good" porkies profit far, far more than they actually contributed. Sure, does Bill Gates deserve some kind of extra compensation for his technological breakthroughs? Sure, but not billions of dollars. Give him a higher salary and build him a statue.
Lel, no he didn't
do you have the pdf for a theory of justice?
No. I think he talks about market socialism in Justice as Fairness: A Restatement
I mean, if you count paying a bunch of people to invent and build a car as inventing and building a car, sure, he created Tesla
You can look it up, from the outset, he contributed next to nothing for the development of teslas, he only supervised. Why people give him credit for it is beyond me
I'd take 5 Elon Musk style porkies for every Bill Gates style porky hands down. He didn't need to open source Tesla's patents. It seems like he really is using his porky status to accomplish something necessary for human survival, ie ending fossil fuel usage.
I mean, Musk would likely still want to work on something engineering related, which would be something that would be important and useful under socialism. He's not a totally parasitic talentless porky like the finance/hedge fund porkies.
Lets talk about nice porkies. Donald Trump approves this thread.
No, because he didn't invent jack shit and his only "breakthrough" was to monopolize the operating system market and fuck everyone for decades with anti-consumer cancer.
There are more empty houses than there are homeless people in America because of this piece of shit.
I don't want "ethical" or "benevolent" porkies in the same way I don't want ethical or benevolent monarchs or feudal lords. I don't want humanity's goal to be capitalism with a human face. I want to abolish it entirely, and therefore removing any possibility of "ethical porkies." I don't want there to be any porkies at all.
let's take Musk and Tesla out of the picture, and imagine a scenario as OP seems to view it.
Presumably; an intelligent, most likely wealthy inventor creates patents for technology that can be extremely beneficial to mankind. He seems to be more interested in furthering the technology landscape and increasing basic standard of living than shanking third world peasants for clean water. He may not be inherently, consciously opposed to the principals of communism, but he is still bourgeois, and like most people, first looks after his rational self interest. Knowing this, wat do?
intellectuals are a big part of the proletariat. considering intellectuals "bourgeois" was the biggest mistake lenin did. leave him alone when a revolution happens and treat him equally after a socialist society has been established
i think its the same book user
obviously intellectualism doesn't make one bourgeois, but privately owning the means of production does. I'm not condemning Musk for being an "ebil borky", but he does fall under the bourg category. I assume that the revolutionaries would have a list of bourgs who may potentially step down, with the right combination of strength of arms and wit of word, and surveil them for a time as they contribute to the process of entering a new stage of our species' development.
I say! You chaps are doing really good work in this thread! It's not right to think of every person with a higher income as evil, just because they make a teeny little bit more than you! Yes, they don't give out their money to things that say they "need" it, but if they gave their money away to everyone who said they needed it, why there'd be nothing left to give! Truly, they are being generous and wise to not so frivolously waste their moderately raised income, but instead invest it into their - I mean, our future!
Keep up the good work, you are being very productive!
The only good porkies are those who capitulate to worker's control. We're not arbitrarily for killing all capitalists who exist, only those who act in reaction against the seizure of the means of the production. I hate Zizek, his politics are absolutely rancid and fucked on a number of issues which I refuse to get into on a chan, but he does have a good analysis of what he calls 'liberal communists', this isn't exactly what I read, and it's a decade old now, but it's actually fairly fantastic:
Elon Musk may be a legitimately creative and productive man, but so are thousands of people who will never see a fraction of the wealth he does. He has good principles, but he fails to recognize that the very method of his accumulation of wealth is exploitative.
The very method of capitalist accumulation is immoral. It doesn't mean porkies are inherently evil, and if they completely support the revolution and sacrifice their wealth they are cool. It just so happens however that history tells us that capitalists will invariably and have in every case used excessively anti-democratic means, like supporting Kornilov, postponing elections, rigging polls, removing voting rights, outlawing parties, along with slander.
This argument for the good factory-owner seems very similar to that of the good slave-owner. Again, I do hate Zizek, but I'll take a page from his book; isn't the good slave-owner worse? Doesn't he mask and protect the exploitative system much more than the bad slave-owner?
It's true, as there were some good slave owners, and there are some good policemen. These people being nice does not remove the truth of the fact that the institutions to which they belong are fundamental opposed to the best interest of the largest number of people.
Was feudalism justified just because Richard Lionheart was a kind king?
If they support the revolution/endorse
This. If the revolution had succeeded a century ago, we'd already have accomplished everything Musk is talking about and more.
Step foward: we hear That you are a good man. You cannot be bought, but the lightning Which strikes the house, also Cannot be bought. You hold to what you said. But what did you say? You are honest, you say your opinion. Which opinion? You are brave. Against whom? You are wise. For whom? You do not consider personal advantages. Whose advantages do you consider then? You are a good friend Are you also a good friend of the good people?
Hear us then: we know You are our enemy. This is why we shall Now put you in front of a wall. But in consideration of your merits and good qualities We shall put you in front of a good wall and shoot you With a good bullet from from a good gun and bury you With a good shovel in the good earth. -Bertolt Brecht
OK, but we didn't. Is Musk somehow bad because he's trying to get us there now?
The "good" porkies get 1 year less Gulag of course
Some of the tech porkies favor open source becuase it benefits them and their companies in the long run. Same reason why some porkies supported progressive reforms under FDR or why some capitalists want their nations to withdraw from the EU.
elon musk is doing what he's doing because it makes money. SpaceX exists because he is able to underbid ULA
he is a classic capitalist
Those some nice digits comrade!
Reminder that open source is a bastardization of the free software movement to be more porky-friendly.
Of course. Look at how software that doesn't respect users freedom like Chrome are open sourced. Tech porkies want users to think that the free software and open source are the same thing. When they're very different things.
Still support your silly socialism now?
go find a copy of the communist manifesto and look at the first page…
Spectre is a spook.
He's okay, as a human being, for a porker, but ultimately, it isn't "him" making all these inventions, it's his employees.