New Mars Rocket

ewww sounds normie

That's quick.
Will we at least get to swap porn with each other.

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A better name for it would be /tumblrpol/.

If possible at all, it'd probably be slow as shit.

A mars colony would be a decent place to implement eugenics. Just saying.

Sorry you'll never get to visit Mars user ;-;

>implying I am genetically inferior

who wants to move to a country that's 100% immigrants, there's literally no jobs or industry, and you only get company housing from your employer?

80 days is pretty fast. But I think that's a flight that would take "3 to 4 refuelling trips" before the actual ship can launch. So they could use all of that fuel to accelerate to extreme speeds and make the trip more quickly. That's a lot of launches, which will probably push the ticket price up. I'm guessing there would be a more affordable option for launches using more conventional launch windows, which are around 200 days to go from Earth to Mars. Though we're likely still talking about 100 000$ per ticket, so be ready to sell your house.

All the same... I'd totally be done to take a ride. It'll probably take me long enough to save that much money that by the time I finally go, the colony will have been established for 10 years. Assuming they make it of course.

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Musk said he's aiming for $200K per ticket, which honestly isn't too bad considering the enormity of going to Mars.

People who really want to go could cash out their retirement early, and help to build the future.

I got banned on /pol for making a thread that went something like this,

Suppose Elon Musk's Mars colony is successful and there is a self sustaining martian colony of a million people. Everyone will die. Why will everyone die? The men will eventually go NEET when the women start space whoring. Civilization is male surplus value, so when the men are not working things are collapsing. How does Elon plan of solving this dilemma? Men won't work for whores and other men's children and women will always try to get the chaddest man out there. No civilization has escaped the decline and there is no obvious answer to escape it other than collapse. Collapse on Mars means death.

I suspect artificial wombs may exist by the time that scenerio could play out. Women will lose their biological advantage over men, and gender dynamics will be turned completely inside out.

I'll be honest, I can see why they got upset with you.

It's a perfectly legitamte thread because there was an Elon thread still active and it ties into /pol always talking about Spengler and Glubb's books on civilizational decline. Old /pol would have loved that thread. /pol now is just a Trumpvertisement.

Artificial wombs do not exist now and probably won't for another generation. Elon wants to be on Mars in 10 years.

Decline of civilization on mars would take a long time. First of all it would be a high trust civilization until the price comes down enough for the undesirables to start intermingling with the wealthy (mostly likely white/asian) initial colonists. I estimate even a population of 1+ million would take at a minimum 50 years.
There will be at least some artificial womb or male birth control technology at that point which will prevent women from being the sole gatekeepers of reproduction.

It's not that simple. A colony on Mars is a very complex and technical civilization. Any single digit percentage shift in labor will be felt and ripple through. This is not something you can fix by offering higher wages to get more people. The people will have to be trained for years and given jobs to hone those skills. Mars is a death sentence to your descendants.

You're right, I can't tell you exactly how to organize a society on earth, let alone mars. But, I can tell you general trends and what their general impact would probably entail.

However, I feel the same way I feel about General Intelligence. If it happened once, it can be engineered again.

*feel the same way about civilization on mars

send all the niggers to mars and then nuke it

No thanks

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Why would anybody believe you could live on Mars when you can't even live on the ISS without CONSTANT re-supply trips from Earth?

We need to make a self-sufficient space colony first, because all of that technology is going to be what goes into the first Mars ground colony.

Communication with mars will be slow and limited, living conditions will be harsh. In those circumstances their society will quickly revert to some form of traditional gender roles.

You can extract minerals from mars soil, ISS doesn't have soil. Until we have technology to capture and mine asteroids there is no point in investing into a space colony because it will never be self sufficient and it will never be capable of autonomous expansion. Also you are not taking into account the effects of zero gravity on health.

Every space colony concept has dealt with the gravity problem in one way or another, and you can't rely on unspecified "minerals" in martian soil being exactly the kinds you need to grow food or to be in the quantities needed too. And remember: there's very little atmosphere at all, much less one rich enough in carbon dioxide for earth plants to grow.

All of the rigorous recycling technology needed on the martian ground would be used in space colonies themselves.

You think that out of all the many challenges such a colony might face, the major concern is that some colonists will become... prostitutes?

You do realize that for the next 60 years the selection process is probably going to be extremely stringent. People who go there will be given very complex and important technical jobs. Even if those who go don't have engineering expertise, they'll probably be given tons of training and education in engineering fields. It's like saying you're worried that a few members of the White House staff might become prostitutes. They'll be far too busy, and have much better things to do.

yeah that justifies banning and deleting a perfectly legitimate thread.
just get rid of anything that hurts muh feels, lmao.

a software is freedom-respecting if all its users have the four freedoms. it's not necessary that its users are everybody.

I never said it was reason to delete the thread, just that I understand why they got upset. It sounds like he created the thread specifically to be confrontational and get a rise out of people.

Not to mention basic population control will be ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. One person too many and you've got a water shortage problem on your hands.

A ground colony is still much easier to make than a space-based one. For example: Plants can apparently (ostensibly) grow in martian atmosphere if you compress it- It's nearly all C02, so as long as you use LEDs at night so the plants never have to breathe 02, they'll be fine, in principle. Plus, martian dirt is (apparently) not vastly different from what we have on earth, and could, in principle, be processed so plants can grow in it. You would probably bring hydroponics gear with you when you went to start you off. It's obviously not all as simple as that, and I agree the R&D needs to be done first, but having a planet's worth of material to work with makes things significantly easier than being the ISS.

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*that could be discussed, outside the couple of rocket and colony posts

lets it it from another pov

I'll sink with this ship thank you

There was already a spacex thread.

That I'm age pisses me off. Where are the burn marks in the ice?

That's not Mars.

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Can you link it? I still can't see it.

And the original pic is supposed to reference the hopeful future of the transport. I think it's Enceladus. Elon Musk said that they might be able to send it to the moons of Jupiter or even Saturn one day. Though... for it to achieve that kind of deltaV I imagine they'll have to replace the engines with nuclear thermal ones.

Amusingly, that would mean it wouldn't be able to land on Mars anymore, because NTRs have pretty weak thrust. But the jovian moons have even weaker gravity than Mars, so it would probably be fine landing there.

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Yeah, CH4/LOX engines would not be useful on ice worlds.
If he plans on visiting Titan, they would be perfect however, at least for landing and then getting back to orbit.
The thing is, it is over a billion km away, so the trip would take years.
I don't think his spaceship is designed for long voyages.

Mate how many probes do you think we sent to mars

This.

You don't just go to Holla Forums and trigger the delicate virgins there.

How many plants have we grown on mars? We cannot gamble human lives 225 million km away from Earth on the theoretical chance that you "might" be able to grow edible crops in the soil. The best way to ensure that they have enough food is to ensure that they can produce food no matter WHAT.

Anything less is a suicide mission.

I don't get it, why is diversity like Even Horizon?

Remember, this thing is huge. If it can house 100 people comfortably enough for 80 days, I imagine it would be able to hous 10 to 20 people comfortably for years. By bringing the passenger count down you could fill all of the extra spare space with a gym, a little garden, a pool. You could also fit tons of research equipment that the small crew (probably composed of scientists who are looking forward to use on the jovian moons) can play around with until they reach their destination.

It would probably be pretty dangerous for humans to be exposed to cosmic radiation for so long, but I'm sure some people would be willing to tough it and take the risk.

SpaceX is a venture capital meme

A meme that has scared the other big names so much they are all rushing forward to release new, more competitive rockets.

The ESA is coming out with their Ariane 6, scheduled for 2020.
ULA is coming out with the Vulcan in 2019
Russia is going to replace the Soyuz (which has over 1000 launches under it's belt) with a more efficient launcher called Angara.
Even Blue Oirgin is working on their New Glen super rocket (also set for 2020).

I doubt any of these would have been put forward if not all the stuff SpaceX has done in the past 10 years. Even if SpaceX never launches it's super heavy rockets, it's already shaken the industry, calling for more affordable launchers across the board.

you're dangerously naive. it doesn't rotate, how is this 0g pool going to work out? that's deadly m8. crew can drown too easily with that much water floating around in the pool area. will fuck up your electronics if it gets loose. will fuck up your engine burns when it sloshs around.

you've got to be underage b&. does summer ever end?

Musk has stated that they will probably install compartments that could be extended on arms to increase the effective radius and more easily produce artificial gravity via spin (the bigger the radius, the stronger the feeling of acceleration). So yes, it would be possible. You don't need much to keep humans comfortable and to keep your coffee in your cup (or your water in your pool). 20% to 30% Earth gravity will probably do.

But really the pool comment was me being flippant. The point is that if you suddenly free up 80 cabins, you'll find tons of free space and spare mass to fit a lot of the equipment needed to keep people alive for the 30 month trip to Saturn.

I am naive, but I know my rocketry.

lmao

sup newfag, back to whatever site you came from

clearly you don't know your rocketry. musk's said a lot of things including hyperloop kek. that doesn't mean they're viable. adding extending pods means extra weight, complexity, cost, and points of failure. never going to happen. in the plan musk presented the ship doesn't spin. did you even watch it? also you conveniently ignore the sloshing problem. irl fuel tanks have baffles to mitigate sloshing on launch. you're talking having a pool, with at least enough water for a single person. and if you're having extending pods for rotating then you probably want two, or at least a counterweight to match the moment of the extending pod and water and astronaut so it doesn't fuck up the rotation of the spacecraft. even if you use cargo as a counterweight that's thousands of kg at that point for the pod so you can add a pool. that's useful load you could have used for tools / equipment / supplies necessary for colonization and experimentation that you've wasted on luxury.

and to deal with the sloshing problem? what? maybe pump to a tank? it's not compressible, that means you're wasting at least the volume of your pool which could be used for otherwise useful load. you also need to filter the water each time it's used since it's almost certainly drawn from the drinking supply.

unrealistic and naive.

oh i came from here, gee i guess i'll come back here then.

stupid goddamn pajeet.

He didn't mention it in the video, it was in an interview somewhere where he talked about what subsequent generations of the ship might look like. It would add complexity to the design, but there is nothing technologically limiting us from constructing these rotating compartments. They wouldn't actually add that much weight, if they are extended while the ship is cruising (no acceleration) the "arms" could be made of support wires kept taught by the centrifugal forces.

And... everything else you said is nitpicking about the pool that I admitted was only half serious. I'm pretty sure that sloshing wouldn't be an issue unless the ship was maneuvering. During coasting those kind of perturbations would be minimal. If there was a "pool" it would probably be called the stress managing hydrotherapy chamber, like a coffin-sized container that you go into wearing an oxygen mask. Again (because you didn't read it the first time) the point I am trying to make is that going from 100 passengers to 20 passengers will make it easier for the ship to keep people alive for 4 years in space, instead of just 6 months.

Who cares if it's 100k to go to mars or hell even 500k.

It costs right now 62 million dollars to go to the ISS on an Russian rocket.

Read my post here,
There is no model on how to beat civilization decline. Otherwise we would have examples on Earth. "Space whores" is just a stupid way of saying "liberated modern women who don't need no man".

Reversion to the mean, google it. You don't know what you are talking about at all.

I thought the soil of Mars has perchlorates on it, which are toxic.

What are you suggesting, that the people who went to Mars will one day decide "Hmm, the pay's not good enough, I quit."?

Because that's not how it's going to work, it will take a super long time before Mars has anything like an economy of it's own. For the first 80 years we're probably going to see a society without any currency. So why would conventional financial mechanisms dictate matters there?

i agree with your point about sending fewer colonists. i disagree with the pool idea which is fucking stupid and a bad example. it's not rejected because of technological infeasibility, it's rejected because of added cost, added complexity, prioritization of needs, and risk reduction.

elon musk can say whatever he likes to, again it doesn't make it feasible. you are just a fanboy so he says and you listen and believe.

you say you're only half serious about the pool yet you stick to the pool idea completely seriously. i'm not saying it's technologically impossible, i'm saying it's not feasible for other reasons, read paragraph #1 again.

i'm not nitpicking the idea, these are legitimate basic engineering concerns. you don't build a pool on your rocket and hope for the best. that's pajeet-tier engineering. you analyze how it will function, analyze what problems it might cause, and analyze how it affects the overall system. if you have a large body of water sloshing around, yes that does fuck up your burns. when you're in transit between mars and earth you're not coasting the entire time, you'll need to do an occasional correctional burn. if you have a large tank of water sloshing around it's going to fuck up that burn and then you need to do another correction sooner. that's wasting fuel, nigger.

Smuggle as many memes as you can to mars. You will see riches the likes of which no human has ever seen.

put a waterlock on the pool room problem solved
spacex r u hiring

No. It's like America in current year. Female empowerment pushes men out of the way. Men realize they don't need to actually work hard to get by. Civilization is built on male surplus value at all levels. So when the men start retreating from the workforce it will be felt badly on Mars. There is no way to recover from this trend once it starts.

Convention finance will dictate matters everywhere because humans have not come up with anything better. It's always money money money and will not change, alternatives have always failed. It boils down to sex again. If you aren't getting laid why work hard? It used to be common sense that married men worked harder than single men.

free market competition, bitch!

Make it a whirlpool so there'll be fake gravity.

Can't you just put a lid on the pool while you're burning?

no ty

Not him, but It's still going to slosh! The only way to stop sloshing is to press the water in as tightly as possible and have baffles on the inside of the tank, and even then, it'll be a problem if you try to rotate. So you wouldn't just put a lid on the pool, you'd suck all the water into a pressurised tank before any kind of maneuever. But long story short: Any fluid on a spaceship is a potential problem, so you want to have as little of the stuff as possible and not have great big tanks for it to slosh around in. Of course, you need exactly that for fuel, so you have to make do, but that doesn't mean you want even more fluid.

Sure, but you have to engineer for it and expend resources to keep it going, on a planet it's free

it seems like mars dirt would actually be able to grow some earth plants, but it doesn't matter: the difference is between having a whole planet of resources vs. nothing. A mars colony can theoretically develop to the point where they can independently create new buildings, new water and new breathable air. A space colony can't, unless we develop technology to capture asteroids.

I already answered:

If you need a longer answer:

1. Mars will mean working 12 hours days in heavy spacesuits and complex intellectual labor with heavy machinery. Access to resources in a resource scarce society that doesn't have a free market economy is determined by your value to the society.

Since women aren't good at labor that is intellectually complex and/or phisically heavy lone women will be relegated to the bottom rungs of society.

2. Human resources will be too scarce to have professional educators or maternity leave so children will be raised communally like in pre-industrial societies. This will lower the individual cost of childrearing to pre-industrial levels which will squash completely the child-free mentality

3. Reproduction will have to be strictly regulated: too many children and the colony will collapse due to lack of resources, too few children and the colony will collapse due to lack of labor. Since contraceptives will be very expensive (because everything that can't be produced on mars will be very expensive) and abortion will be discouraged due to the health risks the preferred method of population control will be sterilisation after the allotted number of offsprings for the person is born.

Conclusion: to avoid being relegated to the bottom rungs of society a woman will want to lock down her relationship with the best possible mate available. This will be best achieved by marrying early when they can still have both of her allotted pregnancies and she's at the height of her sexual attractiveness.

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

Daily reminder that SpaceX is a hoax to scam investors, just like Tesla. Everything Elon Musk is involved in is a scam. PayPal, Tesla Motors, Hyperloop, SolarCity, SpaceX, etc. He is a con-artists.

I think a more obvious problem with that statement is that you're not picking average people to go on the early missions. You're free to have extremely high requirements. Even if women are dumber on average, for that to be a problem there would have to be no smart women at all.

Mike Coffman is the representative for Colorado's 6th district, which contains ULA's headquarters. Of the 438 representatives, of course the one representing SpaceX' top competitor is the one that happens to have sincere concerns about their safety issues.

businessinsider.com/spacex-accident-coffman-congressional-letter-2016-9

House Republicans don't want SpaceX investigating its own 'troubling' rocket accidents

Just days after SpaceX founder Elon Musk delivered his sweeping vision of colonizing Mars, a Colorado congressman is calling on government agencies to take over an investigation of the aerospace company's recent launchpad rocket explosion.

For your point on women being relegated to the bottom rungs, I actually doubt that just because the first people sent to mars would by necessity be intelligent and qualified. Companies mught fuck around with muh equality down here on earth, but they're not going to risk their investment for the sake of brownie points, so I'd guess any women who went with the first team sent over would only be going because of a specific skill they might have (that isn't being able to make babies, because you don't want that happening till you have a well-sized city with an abundance of air and water being refined.)
Or maybe companies will be more retardes than I thought and the first team sent in will have a womyn diversity officer, idunno.

That's true in one way, but on the other hand, we don't know how 1/3 earth gravity will affect humans compared to 1g. The problem with a land base in this regard is that it's harder to increase gravity than it is in space. With a ring, if you want more gravity, spin it faster; once it's spinning, it won't stop, and it doesn't cost too much to make if you have space manufactoring.

If it turns out mars' gravity is lethal to humans in the long run, how are you going to combat that? Spinning habitation blocks with inclined floors would help (at least you're under gravity when you sleep) and then you could be under 1 g or more when you work out, which might be enough to prevent muscle, bone, and blood degradation. But building that kind of thing on a planetary surface is going to be complex and expensive to run. More expensive than one in space? I don't know, but it's not a sure question either way.

Those statistics are tampered, women receive all kinds of extra help that men don't. And yet they still are in the majority where it counts. What more evidence do you need?

That actually makes matters worse, not better. If you asssume normal distribution a small difference in average will be invisible on a random sample but if you start selecting for "the best" the group with the highest average will dominate disproportionately.

Plus we are not talking just about intelligence, but intelligence plus phisical strength.

what if mars's small gravity causes humans to evolve into a race of big guys?

What if Mars has space aids that turns all women into obedient catgirls?

Kill urself my man.

More like space fascism, with the leader being the captain of the ship/commander of the colony base. None of those first landers ate getting pregnant until there's enough resources for a baby not to suffocate everyone.

This would be pretty much equal to slavery. Also this looks like a problem that is to be solved more efficiently through the correct application of property rights rather than coercively. Micromanaging will stop being efficient when the colony gets to a certain size and also there's the problem that the person in charge would have absolute power over the lives of the colonists and wouldn't want to give it up even after it was deemed unnecessary beyond any reasonable doubt. Independent modules for each person/family and private ownership of the means of production of valuable resources (air, H2O, etc) would solve that problem, specially the reproductive one since reproduction would mean higher oxygen spending as well as food, a problem that should be exclusively the parent's responsibility, not of the whole colony so the incentives would be to not have children you can't support. Oxygen would be a private consumer good just as food or water is in Earth due to its scarcity.

Life in Mars would be subject to the very same economic laws than here on Earth, it's just the value of the resources would be different. I can already see the Martian municipalities issuing an Oxygen-based or a Water-based currency for trade or, even better, a fully privatized currency system. There could even be private interplanetary trade that would provide of resources the colonists for whatever resources there is in Mars that are scarce in Earth.

Goddamnit, the economic possibilities up there are endless.

huh?

Paypal's transaction costs are virtually zero and they have exclusive rights with ebay and many other sites and If you want to buy and sell there you have no choice but to use paypal. Paypal charges you 3%, even though the cost to paypal for each transaction is the same (virtually zero).
If anyone here has a business, you need to seriously add bitcoin or other virtual currencies, because paypal is a scam. Every transaction through paypal amounts to nothing more than a donation to Peter Thiel, Max Levchin and Elon Musk. Hidden surcharges, frozen accounts, confiscated money. 100% scam.

That's not a scam. That's just greed. Besides, Paypal makes most of its money from interest. They take the money that people store in PayPal and gain interest from it for as long as it remains in their system. That's why they don't want you to take your money out of the system and transfer it to your account. Of course, that's also why I withdraw my money from PayPal as soon as I get it.