I just watched this Lennart Poettering talk

Can we get an ETA on emacsd?

That's not really the way systemd does things, but Emacs systemd integration is already possible and useful. Emacs supports a server-client architecture where instead of starting a whole new editor instance you just connect to an already running one, and setting up a server as a (systemd) user service is convenient so it gets started automatically. And you can optionally compile Emacs with libsystemd support which apparently has something to do with socket activation.

...

Is there any good reason to replace OpenRC with systemd?

Compatibility, user services, simple service files, off the top of my head.

This is the traditional approach to service files: 0x0.st/Qfn.bin
This is the systemd approach to service files: 0x0.st/Qf5.servic

Because then people would be able to see in isolation, those pieces are worse than the already-existing equivalents.

And 0x0.st/QOH.txt is the OpenRC approach, you weasel. Try harder next time.

[citation needed]

Kill yourself

You are like 2 years late to this party. This is like being a Rei-fag when everyone knows that Asuka is objectively better in every respect. Binary blobs? No thanks.

debate tonight, in 45 minutes...

Not an argument

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT UNIX

~ $ cat /etc/service/openssh/run#!/bin/shssh-keygen -Aexec sshd -D

pidfiles are harmful

HAHAHA I'll never use systemd no matter how you it's shilled, you assmunch.

Why do redhat employees systemd supporters feel the need to create a "Systemd is not so bad" thread every week?

It's already in almost every major distros, your shilling is not likely to change the mind of those niche users unless you have an agenda

You're right, but downright requiring a monitoring program and doing back and forth communication to run your own program is worse.
If you wanted an elegant solution you'd be stealing #s from plan 9 and implementing proper namespaces.
man.cat-v.org/plan_9/3/srv

Eternally underrated post
Eternally underrated post
Eternally underrated post
Eternally underrated post
Eternally underrated post

When the shit hits the fan and you're trying to figure out why sshd isn't starting, you'll be glad you have a couple hundred lines of bourne-shell to debug instead a brief text file and however many hundreds of thousands of lines of C systemd is.

Then you have no reason to care if Systemd can make your startup files more concise.

Thank you for pointing out that systemd shill tried to trick me into using systemd by providing false information about competing software.

Sorry, I haven't used OpenRC much. I shouldn't assume so much about it.

Compatibility and user services should still count.

Because it's a common discussion topic on Holla Forums. We get lots of systemd threads in general, and most of them are anti-systemd.

And there really are people who oppose systemd who can be convinced. For example, I've had plenty of conversations here on Holla Forums where someone asked what a good first distro would be and whether they should get one without systemd. They constantly hear people shitting on systemd so they assume that it's bad and are aware that it's not a solid assumption.

I care about it because it lets me write my own startup files more easily. I never had to do much debugging of a daemon's startup file so I don't know if that's easier with a declarative syntax or with a huge shell script.

What do you think exactly? That I've been hired by Red Hat to promote systemd on Holla Forums?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill
Shill can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws.

So all you anti-systemd fags without arguments are shills. Got it.

SystemD is slow. SystemD goes against years of standard procedures on Linux. MachineCTL is the most retarded piece of shit ever made.

blah blah blah I'm wrong. Fuck yourself pottering fags.

No. The only reasons that will be posted are shill posts.

SystemD is a way for Lennart Pottering and Redhat to have control over Linux.

If Stallman were more active and aware of what is going on, I'm certain he would be warning about this.

Because Redhat won't be satisfied until everyone is forced to use it with no other options.

This is my biggest complaint about systemD above all else, their constant need to force it on everyone. Sure they'll come in here and say "WERE NOT DOING THAT JUS USE WAT U WANT LOL!", but it's clear to anyone with half a fucking brain that is what they are trying to do.

I don't know the real reason why Pottering and crew are so hellbent on forcing everyone to use his shitty system. Fuck off and let me choose what I want, which it what Linux/Unix is supposed to be about fucker.

System8===D

/debate

wtf I hate systemd now

You are attacking me for no reason, I did not even make any argument.
I was interested in knowing if there is any technical reason why someone should switch from OpenRC to systemd. But it seems like systemd is one of those projects that have toxic fan-base that over-zealously shills for it all the time.

The GNU project has an alternative init system.

GuixSD will save us.

What kind of harmful control do they have over Linux? What's stopping people from forking if they abuse it?

You implied people defending systemd can be shills. Fuck off

You faggots always do this shit. Start throwing around the word shill, then get buttflustered when someone throws it back in your face acting as if you dindu nuffin. Don't throw the assumption that people on here are shilling if you don't want the same logic thrown back at you. And quit acting innocent you disingenuous faggot

Are you saying that people defending systemd cannot be shills?

Can you please suggest better name for someone who gives wrong info about competing software to make software that he/she is promoting look better?

There are absolutely no rational arguments for using an inferior text editor, but a distro where half the system depends on emacs and it's impossible to install joe would still be retarded>There are absolutely no rational arguments for using an inferior init system.

In this case it was "someone making a mistake". I gave three reasons for preferring systemd over OpenRC, and one of them was wrong and easily refuted. There's no reason to lie about that reason on purpose because it turned out to be so easy to refute and having someone refute it is very damaging.

I don't think that fits into any "shill" profile.

How much software depends on systemd in practice? And is that even systemd's fault?

fuck off and take your bolshevismd with you

On Archlinux 79 packages depend on systemd (pacman -Sii systemd), so, even if you don't use it, it may be easier to leave it installed. The packages are:
accountsservice android-udev archboot archivetools bluez-hid2hci bluez-plugins bluez-utils btchip-udev chromium cloud-init colord cor crda cups device-mapper dhcpcd dnscrypt-proxy docker elasticsearch envoy fcgiwrap flatpak gnome-logs gnome-session gnome-system-monitor kmscon lib32-systemd libcec libgdm libinput liblogging libmbim libpulse libusb libvirt libwacom lighttpd lvm2 mailman media-player-info mesa mkinitcpio modemmanager netctl pcmciautils pcsclite percona-server php-fpm pkgstats playpen polkit powerdns python-pyudev python2-pyudev qopenvpn qtwebkit rabbitmq rkt rtkit subversion synce-core syslog-ng systemd-swap systemd-sysvcompat toxcore transmission-cli udevil udisks udisks2 upower xdg-user-dirs xf86-input-evdev xf86-input-wacom xf86-video-amdgpu xf86-video-ati xf86-video-nouveau xf86-video-openchrome xorg-xdm ypbind-mt

That's not a good test because Arch doesn't care much about non-systemd compatibility. Some of the dependencies are poorly defined because packagers assume everyone is running systemd.

Use Debian to check that instead. systemd is the default and packages are allowed to hard-depend on it, but other init systems are still supported.
$ apt-cache --no-recommends rdepends systemd | tail -n +3 | grep -v -e systemd -e i386 | sort | uniq gummiboot ifupdown init-system-helpers |libguestfs0 libnss-myhostname libnss-mymachines libnss-resolve |libpam-cgfs libvirt-daemon-system lighttpd lxsession |mate-power-manager pcscd sogo tuxonice-userui udev

I won't pretend runit is good. It's just a local minimum of bad between the extremes of systemd enterprise bloat on one end and s6's autistic pure-functional-shell programming on the other.

That design looks nice. Bus1 has some similarities to it despite being meant for a completely different use case. Maybe there's light at the end of the tunnel.

GNU Shepherd for anyone interested: gnu.org/software/shepherd/

My biggest problem with systemd is not its size or complexity but how it expects applications to conform to its standards instead of the other way around.[1]

[1]: github.com/tmux/tmux/issues/428

Binary blobs is an objective fact when you sign up with SystemDicks

You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

All the good features Systemd advocates say it has are most non-sense.
People often think that because something is now simpler is that the
complexity from before just vanished, guess what, it didn't, it's just
inside systemd itself.

Just read this article on systemd fallacies, it'll open your eyes.
archive.is/MjXec

Not an argument

My perceived lack of understanding does not mean that SystemDicks is audited by third parties.

All you gotta do is make a freedoms-only fork of Devuan. Like what GNewSense is to Debian. Make the free Devuan clone and submit it to the FSF and explain what it's supposed to be, and it'll show up on the list of FSF-approved GNU distros probably with a description about init freedoms or alternatives to the controversial systemd init. It would be so incredibly nodev that pretty much all you need is a server to host your repos on.

Total kek, they are working on a dummy wrapper to get rid of systemd along with maintaining a systemd free version of gnome.

Good luck Lennart.

Seems pointless to remove something so annoying from something that's almost equally annoying.

Fuck you, Pottofshit

It's Lynyrd Pedoring

...

woo systemd general. today i had a fun error with some dependency failing in boot with systemd shitting out a completely fucking obscure error message and dropping me to single user mode on boot. the fix seemed to be just mounting all of my devices with 'nofail' in fstab. yay.

funny thing is, all of my mount points are fine. the lack of a clear error message is fucking irritating though. i'd paste it but it's not in journalctl or /var/log/messages. go figure.

i've got mixed feelings about it, really.

automatically restarting failed services is cool. simple, universal unit files with service management is great little nugget in a big brown sea of shit.

machinectl / systemd-nspawn are cool, but seem to be RH's not-invented-here version of the userspace LXC tools.

journalctl a shit. dbus integration a shit (b/c dbus a shit). systemd-hostnamed a shit (this is a real thing wtf). systemd's crazy fucking locations for unit files a shit (if only because i'm old and can never remember them).

systemctl status [foo] is incredibly verbose yet kinda useless while start/stop are as terse as possible.

also daily fucking reminder of systemd breaking daemon(): github.com/tmux/tmux/issues/428

overall i'd give it a 5/10. passable.

What about this: OpenRC works for me fine on my server

Runit works for me fine on my desktop

I have no problems configuring services on either

I don't understand systemd that well and don't want to configure a bunch of shit to have basic things like nonbinary logs

Happy?

Not an argument

It is for me

And if your whole argument is that systemd makes things easier. Which it doesnt for all people, doesn't Windows Server make things even easier for even MORE people?

Install Windows Server, cmon now get with the times.

What is your interest in making minor segments of the linux userbase support Poettering's baby? Why do you care so much? Especially around a community that is always going to be fractured around special use cases?

Would you understand why some would call you a shill?

Chill out and let people be

Not a valid comparison

I'm done, some people get along fine with other init systems and don't want the other shit (other than an init system) that systemd ships with. You're not going to convince them and frankly, I'm not sure why you care.

You being "done" is not an argument.

Spamming is not an argument either.

Translation: I have no valid arguments against systemd other than "older systems just werk".
I don't care about this shit either way but you autists get triggered way too easily.
I also don't understand how systemctl is cancer?

What do binary blobs and auditing have to do with each other?

Other two reasons that you gave were also not true.
Systemd is not compatible with old init software.
freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/Incompatibilities/
It is "compatible" with software written specifically for systemd. By making any software "systemd compatible" it becomes incompatible with any non-systemd system.

It is "feature" that is beyond of scope of init system. Systemd is able to do this because it "ate" other software components that should be responsible for this stuff.

It is impossible to audit binary blob, therefore it is pointless to audit software with one when malicious party could hide nasty stuff in binary blob.

They are true reasons. There is software that depends on systemd. If you want to use that software and don't need software that's incompatible with systemd then that's a reason for using systemd.
It might not be relevant to everyone, but that doesn't make it a false reason.

That's fine. systemd is not an init system. systemd includes an init system. That's like saying that Firefox shouldn't have bookmarks because bookmarks are beyond the scope of a javascript engine.
And even if you don't like it that doesn't make it false. It exists. It's useful.

If that's the kind of binary blob this is about then it's not relevant to systemd.

It's so dense... every subsystem has so much going on

just like anti-systemd shills

Then stop using non-init features of systemd as argument when you talk about using systemd as init, you dishonest bastard.

In OP you implied that it is init system.

Not an argument.

If you use systemd as init you get those features. If you don't use it as init you don't get them. I think they're relevant.

The post

Please learn from literally every other thread and stop feeding the dipshit, we have namefag filters for a reason

This is the average systemd user. He is incapable of a coherent thought and can only respond in variations of "no u". Systemd is for the 9gag generation.

How are non-init features relevant in comparison of init systems?

ITT: faggots getting baited

not an argument

but a nice combination of digits

They're a consequence of the choice. And the original question asked about OpenRC vs systemd without mentioning init:

Technically, OpenRC is not even an init system. It doesn't run in PID 1.

You are right, it is not init system by itself, it relies on other "real" init software to do what it does.
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenRC

Anyway, answer to original question is no. All systemd does is lock you down to using *d packages instead of allowing you to pick and choose best software for your use case.

What if the *d packages are the best software for your use case?

What if shoving a cock up your ass is the best for your use case?

Then only reasonable thing that you can do is to use systemd.
as I said before, I am not anti-systemd person

NOT AN ARGUMENT IN THE CURRENT YEAR

I-I'm sorry

...

agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet

I admire their efforts, but I think the whole point of systemd is to prevent interoperability* and so I doubt it will be easy if possible. Gnome 2 was great, but Gnome 3 sucked ass. Don't understand why they care about that bloated piece of shit anymore.

First they tell you how user friendly systemd would be, but when it isn't it's suddenly incompetence on the users part, ALWAYS. Fuck Potterix.

*Not using that word in a Microsoft sense

systemd confirmed for being as secure as grsec :^)

Because making a systemd thread on Holla Forums means 300 guaranteed replies full of angry shitposting.

How to crash Linux in thirteen characters: :(){ :|:& };:

steps to software support success :
1: pay some NEET to write spaghetti code that only your company will use
2: pay some "grants" to popular "FREE" linux distro maintainers
3: "free" distros adopt your spaghetti code
4: the community will write all documentation
5: the community will write all troubleshooting
5.5:(because it is now popular you will be ridiculed if you dont use new code)
6: your tech support staff now can be ran by streetshitters because every problem is googleable
7: total cost : NEXT TO NONE
8: PROFIT : LOTS

GNOME doesn't require systemd. See FreeBSD.
Binary logs are optional.
That's the distro's problem.
WINE doesn't require systemd at all. Are you fucking retarded?

Yeah, you're fucking retarded.

BSD is not a good example if you're going for the UNIX "tools" philosophy. If the BSD people designed a spoon if would be attached to a dishwasher. This is a legacy that extends all the way back to Bill Joy and his bloated editors.

Unix that could work in the confines of the "unix philosophy" died. Plan 9 tried to pick up the pieces and died before gaining any significant momentum. Now you have monoliths competing to run your web browser or your web server as their end game. Congrats. Go outside.

What's wrong with your life? Let it all out

"UHHH UHH YOU ARE RETARDED"
"(HA! I SHOWED HIM!!)"

archive.is/fqRYn

That isnt a duplicate thread lmao

wow retard locked the other thread. didn't bother reading it I guess.

It would have been the start for the same discussion this thread has.

Get the fuck out from my board you autistic fuck!

Yes it is

yeah, same thread huh.....

so EVERY thread cant come to same/similar consensus?? does that mean we cant recommend linux in one thread but not another because it is a "duplicate discussion"

This is about the topic, not the consensus. "Hey, X shows that systemd rocks" and "Hey, X shows that systemd sucks" are both just thin introductions to generic fighting over systemd. You'd get two threads about the same shit.

That article was even posted in this thread, and it fit right in:

I asked another volunteer for a second opinion and unlocked the thread. Sorry.

mode banuj systemdczyka

My first opinion is still that you are autistic. My second opinion is that you are a faggot.

That's fine. Means I'll fit right in.

Well, at least you admitted and corrected your mistake. Props for that.

His mistake was listening to you retards. Now we have 2 shitty systemd threads

The thread was a duplicate of and 4 hours late. Remove it again, the OP is a salty twat and deserves it.

tfw
W E W

i ended up installing XP and everything works great (recently dualbooting with manjaro+xp now)

It's damage control. Over at cuckchan whenever someone speaks badly of systemd[ick] they storm the thread and damage control.

Why? An init system is already responsible for starting and managing system services. Why not unify system and user services under a single service management scheme? It makes sense from a technical and sanity standpoint.