Hello Holla Forums. I would like to bring something to your attention: milk producers are suffering...

would you agree that a minimum price on milk is a bad idea?

if yes, why would a minimum price on labor be different?

i wouldnt

I seem to be producing as much milk as always?

suppose the most people are willing to pay for a gallon of milk is $7. if we make it illegal for milk to be sold for less than $15, no one will buy it

and why would they pay only 7$?

because milk is only worth that much to them

no, u dipshit. Thats why no1 asks u for your opinion

Holy shit do amerilards buy milk by the gallon?

explain

so dumb.

no. Stay in your bubble of stupid, so that others can laugh at u

so you have no arguments. got it.

neither do u

Wouldn't it be easier to allow non profitable farms to collapse which would drive prices up due to lack of supply? Why support a buisness that's no longer profitable?

except all the ones I've already posted ITT

but I realize words are hard, so here's a picture instead

this pic is wronger than your words

that's the joke

Can I sample your dads milk?

sure. that'll be 15 bucks

*unzips*

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to be profitable in dairy farming a farmer must industrialize. zero grazing, automatic milkers, high density units. this isn't really farming anymore and produces poor quality milk from animals which aren't very happy.
as a farmer, even if you can raise the finance to equip this sort of operation, it goes against the grain of what farmers are. also, once you join the industrial producers, you are even more beholden to big business. your margin is so small, a few cents on feed or gas for the machines and you are back to just paying your debts.
infact the whole industry is consolidating into the hands of the big dairy product producers: yoghurt and cheeses makers, powdered milk and whey producers: they now own the cows, the farms and the factories. enjoy your govt cheese.

Such as? I seriously don't know of any job that produces that little outside of shit tier self-employment.

There are many jobs that produce nothing, so the pay isn't related to the value of what they produce. Cleaners, for example.

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But they do produce revenue which is all that is relevant, eg. the cleaning company may charge $100 to clean an office that takes 1 cleaner 2 hours to clean. In this example the worker is producing $50/h of revenue.

the milk I consume already costs $15 a gallon… here's a hint, it's delicious

You seem to be the only one who understands farming. That's the main problem facing American farmers today, extremely tight operating margins. One blown engine, combine fire, or accident and you're fucked.

Profitable cooperate farms make a living off cheap, usually undocumented, Mexican labor. If Trump deports that labor pool and cooperate farms have to start paying a living wage kiss your cheap bread goodbye.

Shelf stable milk that doesn't require refrigeration means milk can be shipped in from Mexico or South America where they have little to no oversight about it's content.

Farmers get paid almost nothing for the food you eat. The middle men get all the profits.

ok. so the value of the cleaner's labor is a function of the going price for a clean office minus the wear and tear on mop and bucket, insurance, advertizing etc. how come cleaning companies are profitable yet their employees can barely make ends meet? a minimum wage means offices are cleaned at a genuine market price, or stay dirty.

wut

Not an expert (at all really) but if we raise minimum wage the owners of companies will just raise their prices too right? Thus making it harder for cheap labour to make ends meet and again having to raise minimum wage, market price, minimum wage etc etc
Anyways in short you can choose what you do with your life and becoming a cleaner simply means you either love cleaning or made bad decisions, not my fault

Not a fair comparison man. Cleaning companies calculate costs and charge accordingly. Farmers are told this is how much you're getting paid for your goods take it or leave it.

not really. they can't raise their prices above what the market will bear.

it's more that the companies will become less profitable. some might go under, others will cut employees and work the remaining ones even harder, still others will automate

Mwahahahaa

..and there's the rub. milk from cows in one pasture is different to that from cows in another. autumn milk is richer than spring milk. one breed of cow gives fattier milk than another.
all this variety is what makes raw milk or regional cheeses so distinctive, but it doesn't suit the industrial producer.
industry wants a normalized product which goes easily through processing and maximises profit. big buyers buying from multiple herds for supermarket products will strip the raw milk down to its components and then recombine them to produce what we get to drink or eat as yoghurt and cheese.
they now want farmers to do that for them, basically, by shutting the cows into a barn on a dripfeed at one end and with a milk pump at the other, producing a standardized product.

ABSOLUTE MADMAN

So you're telling me minimum wage just makes people either unemployed or overworked?
Like, I'm a fucking idiot but this sounds way too simple to actually be real

it makes those people unemployed whose labor is worth less than the minimum wage. see

calculating the real cost of a service must include a living wage for the service provider, surely? if not, employees are reduced to the status of capital goods, to be amortized over their useful lifetime. we are humans ffs, not all to rapidly obsolescent machines that are cheaper to replace periodically than to maintain properly over a longer period.

Nobody's labor is worth less than the vital minimum. Let's not return to slavery, huh?

the market price is the price at which supply and demand are in balance. for low skill jobs that anyone with two hands can do, that tends to be pretty low

i didn't mean to make that comparison. however, the days of calculating price from a costbase are long gone. the concept of a fair price, so dear to 19th century economists has been replaced by that of 'market price' which boils down to as much as you can screw the consumer without inviting the competition to undercut, unless you can make your pile and sell out before they tool up….

You don't need a price floor on milk but rather on wages for cow milkers. If everyone milking cows has to be paid $15 / hr then milk prices will automatically adjust to make that wage profitable. Econ 101 fagets.

no, because people are only willing to pay a certain amount for milk. if selling at that amount is no longer profitable, milk will stop being sold

econ 102 faget

California is raising their minimum wage to $10/hr so maybe we should complain like faggot OP.

trips and a sum of 39, not bad.

this equilibrium is theoretical only. even in a wild market like oil or porkbelly, sentiment is more important than fundamentals in the short term.
with cleaners who work long hours and can't feed the kids, the market fails to compute the cost of human continuity, without which there is no market. it's like a manufacturer with a business plan which includes not paying the bank loans, salaries, rent or taxes.

a manufacturer like that will go bankrupt real quick

demand for milk is not perfectly price elastic. As the price curve for milk shifts upwards it can still intersect the demand curve, yielding an equilibrium where less milk is consumed but at a higher price. Potentially, this could mean even higher profits for the manufacturers than without the price floor.

if that's the case, why don't they charge a higher price without a price floor?

because since the market for producing milk is relatively competitive (many small producers) any firm that tries to raise prices will be quickly undercut by a competing firm. One way around this is colluding with other firms, but that's illegal.

Exploiting cow for their milk is wrong.
All women should be farmed for their uterus, and placed in farm where they get milked, 12 hours a day.

so you're saying we should enact a price floor to protect the producers from competition?

I'm not making any value judgements (should/shouldn't) but that is among the effects a price floor would likely achieve. Especially if we implement new regulations and controls (to make sure nobody skirts the minimum wage law) since this could raise the barriers to entry for new firms.

underpaid families go hungry everynight. that's bankrupting your employees to pay yourself. what a good plan!

I find it hard to believe how anybody in favor of increasing minimum wage could be against removing taco thereby shrinking the labor supply and increasing wages.

maybe they shouldn't have had kids if they're not making enough money to buy food

Liquid milk is a loss leader for the large surface retailers while processed milk is a major profit center. They'll take a loss on bottle/carton milk to screw you on cream, yoghurt and cheese. milk products occupy >10x the shelf surface as liquid milk. qed.

depends whether you think people exist to serve the economy or the other way 'round. That said, the ""people"" in question usually have no right to be here in the first place.

I'm not going to read the whole thread but milk is already heavily subsidized in the US and already has a price floor for what the producers actually recieve the same way commodity grains do.

"the economy" is people making trades with other people, so your statement makes no sense

Wow, you're really trying, aren't you?

trying what?

society/government intervenes in the economy all the time to achieve social goals

yes, but that doesn't change what the economy is. it just changes how the economy works, or drives it underground (i.e. black market)

trolling

So we agree there's a nonzero level of government intervention to achieve non-economic goals. All I said here is that level could be higher or lower.

no, you said the economy is something separate from people

i was taught about the ineluctable market forces (as fundamental as gravity) and their benefaisance for humankind in pre-school biology. they tried hard to make me swallow the idea that competing with your neighbor was virtue. they tried so very hard to convince me that human solidarity was poison and the world would implode if i stood side by side with my kin and demanded better of those who offer me nearly nothing in exchange for the best years of my life. i didn't believe them then and i haven't changed my mind since.

the fuck kind of preschool you went to?

people trade with each other in a given society subject to a certain amount of government control through taxes/regulation and monetary policy.

and if those didn't exist, they would trade with each other without restrictions

>human solidarity
this is a largely synthetic concept dreamed up by intellectuals. People naturally empathize in this (rough) order:

you're being a pedant and ignoring the nuance all at once.
economies wouldn't exist without people, like cleaning companies. that doesn't mean the economy is at the service of those people who keep it alive anymore than cleaning companies exist for the benefit of their employees.

rhetoric got the better of me. i meant from an early age.

my point is that Juan, Jamal, Omar, Xing Chong, Schlomo et al. live by this hierarchy while white people are being systematically taught to ignore it in favor of non-selective solidarity with everyone. The end result, as we are beginning to see, is that whites will be outcompeted by races with strong intergroup solidarity.

well call me an intellectual. i won't be triggered.
we live in groups with a hierarchy. humans are social animals. society exists. competition is an energy inefficient version of solidarity. we no longer swing through the trees in a pitiless jungle. let's live up to that fact.

I wonder how long you could preach that in the no-go zones of Paris or London before getting the shit beaten out of you

don't exist. you are the architypal victim of the system you defend. ignorant, frightened and enslaved by tacit consent.

because I'm too lazy to provide proof, replace Paris/London with Detroit

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america is the cancer on this world. it's the outcome which renders all the effort worthless. fortunately, it has overstretched itself and is in decline. detroit is a case in point.

thelocal.fr/20161010/are-there-police-no-go-zones-in-france-the-police-say-yes
breitbart.com/national-security/2015/01/21/europes-muslim-no-go-zones-documented-on-video/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_patrols

fuck you OP, and FUCK MILK

you're avoiding the question. How do you think the average shitskin will respond to your harangue from

wow. thelocal.fr and breitbart.com. it's exactly what i mean by tacit consent. two notoriously unreliable sources capped with a wiki article. who is that supposed to convince who isn't a slave to easy lies?
i visit paris every month. i was born in london. paris and london are safe, everywher, even on foot. i travel to the us every year. cops have told me not to drive through certain parts of town at night because of the americans living there.. don't take my word for it though.

see

is hanging around the bus station spitting on the floor or lined up for foodstamps. they won't interfere with the march forward. they are ignorant, poor and very envious. we can take them over time and with more pain than we asked for. but the strength of our culture and our generosity are extraordinary. the sandniggers born to merkels million will want to be like us, not like their goat eating grandpa.

the invaders bring their own culture (islam) and have no interest integrating into yours, however far above those "ignorant, poor and very envious" "goat eating" "sandniggers" you fancy yourselves. Unlike whites, they will not submit their children to the liberal brainwashing camps. Their children will go to muslim schools and live under sharia law (along with the rest of your country).

goddamn $15 per gallon, I'd be rolling in it. You know we get paid wholesale per hundred pounds(cwt); not paid by the gallon. I don't even think you're a dairyfag.

Yeah, the Dairy industry is fucked; as is the whole of agriculture. It used to be a family could make a living off 50-100 cows, farm maybe 70-100 acres and have a real good quality life. Shit changed in the 80's. They need to ban these 1000 cow dairies that are financed through investors and run on mexican labor. The grain subsidies are some more retardation driving this. Owner/operators are a dying breed in ag.

there is no sharia in europe. europe has more than enough laws as it is and a handful of sandniggers with sandals won't make us retreat to barbary. drop breitbart.
those who choose to follow a regressive ideology will be marginalised. they will remain poor and badly housed. they will live in squalor and pray in a ruined building, while those who reject the more archaic elements of islam will drive a mercedes and live in the best areas, like the natives. resistance won't last. they will drive our taxis and mow our lawns before they get to parliament, but european culture is in granit and theirs, in sand.

oh you mean since dairy production was ramped up for WWII and the gov't ran a gigantic ad campaign to get people to consume the excess dairy there might be a problem of too much dairy production?

this country produces too much milk and the demand for it is already artificially inflated by a huge margin. it's time to run some counter-milk ads and heavily cut down on dairy production. raising milk prices would just drive demand down and make the problem worse.

there, I responded to the bait

that's 70 yrs ago.
sauce?

infrastructure and practice still in place
my cock
or maybe do a search for "us milk production" or similar
bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-01/milk-spilled-into-manure-pits-as-supplies-overwhelm-u-s-dairies

thanx. we now know that class three milk is worth 15 dollars a cwt, cutting returns per cow in 2016 by 93% year on year. that kinda changes the equation.

Mmmm…. Feminist milk

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She gets it

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marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/pe/

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it's amazing how you people can argue that black is white

You've exceeded the limit of "pretending to be retarded".

whatever. I'm done talking to you

adults aren't supposed to drink milk anyway

What about milk products?

you mean baby cows?

:^)

Depends do you have any degree of lactose intolerance?

Implying slavery ever ended.
Not recognizing slavery when you see it.
Wage slaves are actually slaves.

No, and i love a big layer of golden cheese sweating out its fats on my pizza.

are you a nigger?

a guy comes up to you in the street. he says,
if you borrow my money to go to school and learn a trade, i might give you a job which will pay just enough to buy a house over 30 years and feed the wife and kids, own a car and take 15 days vacation every year until you are too tired to continue.

and retire comfortably off the money you've invested over the years, splitting time between your winter and summer homes with occasional vacations and visits to your kids.

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