Laptop design

Hey Holla Forums,
I've seen lots of complaints over modern laptops lately.

This has got me wondering:
What would really go into designing a laptop?
And what would a good laptop be like?

Here are my thoughts about assorted aspects of a good laptop design.
I hope you'll leave your own.

0. General notes

While a fully free libre laptop would be splendid,
requiring it would broaden the scope and work of
the laptop design immensely. Thus, if aiming for
a good laptop in reasonable time, it might not be
feasible to also have it full freedom. Where possible,
though, choices should tend in that direction.

A good laptop'd break radically from the currently congruent
designs available. The current congruent design, examplified
by Macbooks, tends towards lightweight, sleek, shiny, more a
terminal to the internet than a proper computer in its own right.
They are toys and status symbols, not for serious work.

For a good laptop along different lines to be the most feasible
economically, it should probably stray far from the congruent
design look, to attract the most disgruntled computer users.
What's so disgruntling? Bad screens, awful keyboards, trackpads
that get in the way, innards that don't give you control...

A good laptop would also contain as much of its common-use peripherals
in itself as possible. Otherwise, high-power SoCs would be just as,
if not more, easy to use and feasible. Thus, I think the best alternative
to the current congruent design laptops would be a workstation laptop.
Not just in terms of processing power, but in terms of its embedded peripherals.


Cont.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration
twitter.com/AnonBabble

1. Innards

a. Keyboard

What work on a computer can be accomplished without a keyboard?
Yet keyboards might be the weakest point of modern laptops. You know
the kind. Flat keys with fetid rubber dome nipples. I'm convinced that
if hell exists, Microsoft employees will end up programming Microsoft
software on laptops with rubber dome switches. :)

It seems to me that a laptop with mechanical keys would represent a vast
improvement. Because of the mobile usage of laptops, the switches should
probably not be the noisiest, however.

There's a third issue with keyboards. The way the keys are placed. I've
never understood why the keys all face in one direction, while your hands
go diagonally over the keys. This leads to wrist pronation. Maybe I've broader
shoulders than the majority. But I doubt it.

Thus, taking inspiration from keyboard.io, I think a similar
keyboard-adapted-for-human-hands approach seems a good idea.
Perhaps even movable, in a semi-circle pattern that would both provide changes
in spacing and angling to hopefully accomodate hands attached to different meatsacks.

See the keyboard.png sketch.

b. Pointing device

A bad pointing device is worse than none. An external mouse is a very small peripheral
to carry, and is, along with headphones, pretty tolerable. However, with the keyboard
split off to the sites in a hand formation like mentioned above, there would be ample
space where the keyboards are on current laptops. The pointing device could be placed there,
and thus never be in the way when typing ever again.

I must say I really dislike trackpads. I sometimes see mentions and praise of trackballs.
I would guess that they'd feel pretty coherent in a laptop with mechanical split butterfly
keyboard. Really give the laptop some heft and tactileness to it. I haven't tried a trackball
before, however, so I don't know whether they are actually nice or not.

A very minimal clit mouse in the middle of nowhere would also be possible. But that wouldn't be
coherent design, I think. And a touch screen in the area would probably lead to watering down
of design effects through clutter, rather than a hefty working laptop. Thus I see trackball or
trackpad as the main options. I'd like to add that a small rolling wheel for the mouse wheel
replacement seems nice, particularly if simply placed a little to the side of the trackball.

See the pointing.png sketch.

c. Screen

I dislike touch screens. I haven't seen any good usage of a touch screen ever. It seems like
touch screens merely simulate keyboards and pointing devices while being cheaper to produce,
thus saving on production cost.

Since providing a mechanical keyboard already requires some heft, it seems coherent to provide
a hefty screen. I think at minimum 18 inches, but more preferably 20 inches, would be nice.
Bigger-screened laptops exist already. Probably 4:3 ratio. This would make the laptop pretty bulky,
I suppose, but still far more mobile than a desktop. The laptop bulk also makes room for bigger innards.

Such a laptop might, for instance, come very in handy for digital nomads, who I guess travel semi-bulkily anyway.

d. In-built speakers and microphone

Irrelevant. No reason to include them. The sound is always shit. Save on cost and complexity by dropping in-built speakers.
Everyone uses headphones anyway. The headphone and microphone jacks should be on the side of the laptop, though. My thinkpad
has them on the front. It sucks.

e. In-built webcam

Dragging around an external webcam would be an annoyance. Some might require webcams for online video chat and similar.
Providing an adequate webcam seems a good idea. Providing a little slide cover to pull over the cam when not in use,
or a physical switch to turn it off and on, seems a very good idea too.

See the webcam.png sketch.

Cont.

2. Innards

a. CPU

Newer generation Intel CPUs seem to be dogshit backdoored and unsafe.
Thus for Intel CPUs, we'd need to go back to thinkpad T400 area, which
isn't particularly powerful in modern terms.

I'm not too familiar with competitive offerings, though. Do ARM have any
libre offerings that protect privacy and run at workstation-appropriate strengths?
Or would the better option be looking to a smaller CPU manufacturer.
Or a power8 processor? I don't know. I haven't installed gentoo before.

b. GPU

It would be optimal to have a dedicated GPU from workstationy perspectives. From
mobility perspectives, a GPU would drain more battery. But the laptop, probably
being quite hefty, would have space enough for a big... big battery.

Judging by the attempts at making fully libre computer offerings I know of, though,
GPUs have presented a constant nuisance requiring blobs for certain or all functions.
The libre tea computer, for instance, just disables the GPUs on their base SoCs.

If assuming the laptops under discussion primarily draw techies, the lack of splendid graphics
may not matter much. But perhaps some techies intered need to work with graphics?
The GPU would probably need to be blobby, with disabling options for those who want liberty,
and enabling options for those who need the performance. Pragmatic.

c. BIOS

Seems FSF recommends Coreboot as a libre BIOS, Holla Forums :^)

d. Wireless

I'm not sure where the split is between wireless cards and wireless antennas. I imagine
most modern cards have in-built antennas. I think a wireless option requiring you to plug
it into a usb slot or similar is better than in-built wireless, though. Then you can just
pull out the wireless device and be safer from attacks. On-and-off switches for a built-in
card might also work well, but seems more error-prone.


3. Assorted

The laptop'd primarily have to run GNU/linux, obviously. Running with the hurd would
broaden scope unnecessarily. Price range for a niche market laptop isn't something I
have the faintest idea about., but gaming laptops and workstation laptops seem to run in
the 2.5K$ to 5K$ range.

I am also toying with the idea of having the laptop case consist primarily of that old
nice white plastic which slowly turns to yellow. you know, the one we all know and love.

Thoughts? Insults? Different opinions?

ayy lmao

Fin.

Image not included in OP for some reason.

I wish I still had that old /g/ book image.

OP, someone alreeady made your laptop

That's not the right laptop. The logo is wrong.

...

I want a laptop with no built in keyboard, just a giant surface that can be used as a graphics tablet without obscuring the screen. Also while we're getting rid of holes make it waterproof so I can use it in the rain

For me this is what I would want.

Fully free/libre hardware (no NDA, no Patents, no proprietary software)

-Cad file of the PCBs, and general design of the hardware.

-All firmwares/hardware chips software must be under gpl

-Lisp machine Keybord.

-Direct access to the hardware (cpu, gpu,mem, hdd, minipcie, cooling system in general) on the rear on the laptop (just a few screws).

-GPU replaceable via MXM (or similar) (not with-list bullshit)

-Gel/rubber like caddy anti-vibration system for the hdd

-One Fan dedicated for the hdd (controllable)

-One Fan dedicated for the gpu (controllable)

-One fan dedicated for the cpu (controllable)

-Easy replaceable and universal connector for batteries.

-No wifi whitelist

Metal body (aluminium or whatever), not plastic (plastic is shit after a few disassembly)

...

Forgot
6 usb3 port, and two ExpressCard connector.

wtf? even that thing is cucked with Windows key.

Tempted to start a company only to make this happen

2006: Achievement Unlocked.

Three fans sounds like a big powerdrain, though I dunno how big it actually is.

Gel/rubber anti-vibration caddy system sounds very nice.

Why a lisp machine keyboard? Do you mean in terms of key layout?


Would probably be easy peasy for any inclined laptopmakers.


Seems unlikely in near future for GPUs?

Are all plastics shit after a few disassemblies, or are there different qualities where some actually last?


Why? What for? I'm genuinely intrigued.

That's completely ridiculous. Only reason to have a screen that big would be if it's done with a second screen that slide out like the Thinkpad W700DS or pics related. The Zenith Supersport poster here is the same width as a laptop with a 14" 4:3 screen (ex. a Toshiba Satellite 1805) and just a little longer (much thicker though). Do you have any idea how large a laptop with an 18"-20" 4:3 screen would be? Fuck, you might have a hard time fitting that in a backpack.

Even when you want to show a few people a video with your laptop?

Your design would still require carrying an external microphone. Not everyone carries a gaymer headset.


Anything with firmware that has more control over the hardware than you do and no way to confirm the firmware hasn't changed (as the malicious firmware could modify the software meant to check the firmware) is the same. For x86 processors that's everything post '93 for Intel and post '94 for AMD. Saying you're free and in control of your Libreboot hardware is like saying you're free and in control if you let your girlfriend/wife tie you up and do whatever BDSM shit you do. Sure you discussed it and agreed on it beforehand but you certainly aren't in control, oh and government brain beams might make her forget the safeword.

okay microsoft

Depends on the fan and the overall design of the laptop, if you make a fan duct for the system the fan hasn't have to go full speed..

Generals fans tends can go up to 5watt but it can go much higher.

If I had an external manufacturer for this I'd ask for noctua to design the system.

If you want to know where this idea came from look at the "antec mx-1" it was top notch back in 2007/2008 but now we only have shit tier external hdd 3.5 case.

Because emacs was designed to be used on those.
It's called the space-cadet keyboard RMS and friends made emacs shortcuts from it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard
If you are not a emacs user it's useless.
Or if you want to resurrect the lisp machine it will also be useful.

It is indeed quit likely but there is hope with mali since they (Allwinner) transgressed GPL if we could gather enough people to shit on their face everyday (or even legal actions) it could be the only one who would have to release sources.


The petro-chemical industry has billions of sorts of plastic the one who is to my knowledges the most resistant are the ones used in the 90's in the auto mobile industry.

I said metal because their is a bit less patents on metal alloys than petro-chemical mixtures.


I could respond with sarcasm but I will not.
Because in the maintenance world it's a pain in the ass when you have to fully disassemble the laptop it the worst kind of waist of time.

The hard drive and ram are generally easily accessible but the gpu, cpu fan and more are always a challenge for 90% of the laptops.

having access to all these components are important
1: because if you need to replace a component that is dead or that you want to upgrade.

2:To replace thermal pastes and thermal pads.

-Thermal paste is a sort of grease that you put between the cpu and heatsink.
-Thermal pad is the same but it's not a grease is a solid that you put on chips like ram or other components like mosfets.

These two are important for the heat transfer from the hardware to the radiator.
You have less damage caused from eletro-migration if your hardware is cooler.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration

apple drone detected

sorry for the spelling

Someone send Stallman this.

Indeed but it's still more freedom than less.

...

Why not move the mouse control device to the top of the keyboard space instead of always placing it at the bottom or on a nub between the keys? This way you'll never bump the pointer while you're typing something. Plus it just feels more natural to operate with an outstretched hand.

Dipshit keyword-matching drone detected

Yes because using a keyboard will always be faster than the tactile bullshit that you see in movies.

Be specific in that case pajeet

What does more freedom even mean if you still have just as little control as you previously did? Sure, now you can be sure that the manufacturer doesn't have any back doors installed, but if the potential for one to be installed is still there and there's no way for you to be sure if there's a backdoor or not other than religiously reflashing firmware on every boot what difference does it make? I think it's funny how people always worry about government backdoors coming installed in their systems but completely disregard all the security issues that could potentially allow for the same thing without the problem of massive fallout if a backdoor ever does get found which is a significantly more realistic threat model. A perfect example of this is the security flaws in the baseband processors on cell phones that allow the microphone to be switched on remotely which have been known about for over a decade and could easily be solved by simply not giving the baseband full access to the other hardware, even with FOSS baseband firmware where you can be sure there are no backdoors such an attack would still happen because there is no such thing as 100% software and the hardware is still set up in a way to keep you from freeing yourself even with free firmware.

I know m8 but like said before it's still a step forwards and limits even more possibilities that's what security is also about patch every security hole that you know with what you have.
And make more efforts so that you discover new ones.

What libreboot did is not only patch a backdoor that the nsa implemented?
It has also removed potential security flaws since the eme can't be update, can you imagine that the nsa backdoor can be exploited with the heartblead security hole ?.

That's why we need transparency on hardware and software.
To correct, if possible, bad implementations.

Well, there's a couple of laptops with screens that wide, none 4:3 though that I could find. It'd be pretty hefty, as noted.

I think a laptop with said screen size would be about 21" wide, and 16" deep. The depth would preclude it from fitting into my current backpack, but then, my current backpack's pretty small. I don't see any issue. Surely engineering a laptop bag would be a smaller feat than a laptop.

I've never seen anyone show someone else a serious video. I've seen plenty link to serious videos, though. It's impossible to do everything excellently. I'm not convinced that providing in-built sound and microphones (especially given their usual sordid quality) is really worth it for a laptop primarily focused on workhorse utility.

All you're doing is replacing potential vulnerabilities in Intel's firmware with potential vulnerabilities in Libreboot. The potential to have a backdoor installed is still there because simply changing the firmware will not fix massive security flaws present in the hardware.

Metal being both more durable (probably) and less patent-infested makes a good argument.

I have belatedly realized the back of the laptop likely refers to the part it rests on when sitting, and not the 'side' facing away from you when in use. I thought you wanted to access parts therefrom for some obscure reason, which would have been very clumsy unless the laptop was very, very thick.

Being easy to disassemble - and not needing a total disassembly to reach the innards, even - would be a huge plus, agreed.

Never heard of electromigration before. Interesting.

yes, but it still fix major know security flaws present in the old software, even if it can bring other new security flaws, at least it can be patched if needed.


It's one of the many things of electronics.
Being carefull at the temperature of your hardware is only one thing that we can really influence on a consumers based level.

Otherwise you need a lot of knowledge and the extremely expensive tools.

Something that might interest you also.
All the hdds have a sheet of small details in it you can find multiple informations on that is interesting for multiple reason.
On of them is the temperature section.
Find "Environmental Specifications" and you'll know what temp your hardrive must not go over if you want it to live the expected life or more.
For the other technical details just use a search engine.

That makes sense as a temporary fix while more secure hardware is found, but the problem is it has been years now with the global surveillance issue becoming greater and greater and to my knowledge no real complaints or suggestions of existing hardware that doesn't have those security problems have been made.

Watch Robocop 3 OP the child hacker uses such a keyboard on a laptop and it looks awesome when deployed. Pretty sure it's at the beginning so you can ignore the rest of that terrible movie.

Late 80's to mid 90's movies had some of the best tech props. Nowadays it's all touchscreen or hologram garbage done in post production.

You could just make cheap 5$ tier ones and put two of them in front of the keyboard area.

Goddamnit OP, that's my fetish.
Holy shit yes please. My dick is steel right now.

Well it's extremely difficult to do that because the biggest of companies (intel, amd, ti, ibm etc...) have so much influence and patents everywhere that it's extremely difficult to make even a fpga.
I'm not only talking patent about chips I'm talking patents about the machines that can make the chips.

Plus you need the team, the money and the investors are going to fuck you because your making it free/libre soft/hardware.
This is extremely problematic.
So big manufacturing on the ""free"" market is out of the question.

It is possible nowadays to 3d print on the micro scale and on of the thing about that is that we could experiments on making transistors at home.
I'm stile studying that.

So unless if all politicians understand what it means and makes it obligatory to reveal their shit, we are all screwed.

It doesn't have to be the newest thing possible, but there has to be something out there more powerful or at least more accessible than a 486DX2 that doesn't have a problem like SMM or at least a known cutoff date for when other architectures added something similar with all the ARM, MIPS, POWER, or even the higher end Motorola 68000 series chips out there.

No? Anyone?

Isn't that essentially what's presented in the OP, except for ending up more inbetween the two keyboard halves because of the split keyboard idea?

AKA see the pointing.png sketch, and outline how your suggestion differs?

At that point, better just go with Motorolla 68030 or 040.

I guess it might be actually. OP's image was hard to decipher.

I don't want to give up on other architectures yet until I know if they have similar vulnerabilities or not. From what I've read so far it sounds like ARMv7 might be safe so long as the user has full control of TrustZone isn't restricted to just the non secure world (either through manufacturer's blobs or through lack of documentation on that feature like the BeagleBone SBCs). ARMv8's implementation of TrustZone might be a problem as it has a secure monitor mode that has a higher privilege level than anything else (ARMv7 puts it at the same privilege level as the kernel) and it sounds like it uses separate sections of RAM that all lower privilege level software (like your OS) is blocked from reading, like the x86 SMM.

can i have just

easy and simple

This movie was a lot worse than I remembered.

Not sure if trolling or just stupid.
They are really fast in practice, unless you want to do some heavy shit like encoding 8K video to x265 in real time.
They don't _need_ to be fat and heavy anymore, that's progress.

The retina macbook pro is the best laptop hardware design. Just cover the camera.

Honestly, a bigger version of my Latitude E6220 would be pretty cool as far as case design for the bottom goes, one screw and the bottom panel slides off, giving you access to pretty much everything. Mech keyboard and something like the Compaq Contura 4/25c detachable scroll ball would be pretty cool. 3:2 or 16:10 aspect ratio, 4:3 feels kinda cramped to me, as does 16:9.

I have one, they get way too fucking hot and the keyboard is pretty shit (good as far as most laptops go though). Trackpad is great, if you like them.

A mechanical key and keycap is about as tall as an average laptop, nigga. That's without the PCB.

It would be better if you get a hot girlfriend. Then the laptop won't be perceived as hot as much.

Not sure if trolling or just stupid :^)

You are stupid.
If specs are equal, there's no sane reason for laptop to be heavier and fattier until the point it's so thin it bends

Neat! I think it'd be better if the screen was hinged on the front, and the split keyboard pops out from behind it. That space in the middle could go to a huge quiet fan.

Some might want something that works in confined quarters but let's face it nobody gets any actual work done in such places.