Retards

Which is innate, the human condition
Collectivism is a myth. No sane human help others for the sake of helping, and interest are too complicated to have "common interest" other than really basic stuff like surviving, which amounts to either cavemen or cuba.
There's no answer, if there was we'd have it by now. Is more about which turd smells nicer. I give you that we could have something better, but nothing like answer.
Fuck off, liberal. Power have to be managed by an small group of persons because the masses are idiotic, and that's again, a human condition, no amount of education will ever change that, when, in fact,even "educated" masses are idiotic.

I thought so too first, but after actually studying communism I realized it's not only nothing like what the right wing and centrists told me it was, but it was also the best possible future for humanity.

Anarcho-Space Communism built on mutual aid and a horizontal node network of peer-to-peer communes, that is. Tankies can go fuck themselves.

Your dubs have noticed

argue your point.

Why is having forced transactions between individuals better than having voluntary transactions between individuals?

Would pic related hold true when I try to start a business in your ancom society?

That's all well and good if you have money. But most people on earth don't have much, if any. The free market is a fucking nightmare that leads to mass slavery, education as a purchasable privilege, not a right (even basic education), rampant disease due to healthcare being a purchasable privilege, mass starvation due to food not being a legal right, constant arrests of people who can't pay the road tolls (something incentivized by profit prisons), no legal way to even try to stop corporations from imminent domain without purchasing a lawyer, no legal way to even try to stop corporations from dumping hazardous waste on your property and in your water supply, and so on, and so on.

And on the corporate side, monopolies will strongarm the startup companies into selling out because they don't want competition, and once the monopoly attains the entire means of production for the goods it produces or the services it provides, it will jack the prices sky high because it knows people will pay for the things they need.

And if you try to go to the media about it? Tough shit, the corporation owns them too. And if you try to fight back, good luck going up against the corporation's military-grade private army.

And if you're a whistleblower in the corporation, you better hope they don't catch you before you can leave the region, because if they do the court you're going to is owned by and staffed by the very corporation you were trying to out.

And when the planet is truly good and fucked from all the pollution, the rich owner class will rocket away to their mars colony and leave us all to die on the remains of planet Earth.

Truly a wonderful thing, free market capitalism.

Communism may take a lot of effort, and it won't immediately be the primrose path to prosperity, but it's a hell of a lot better outcome than unfettered capitalism.

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You have to try hardest, user. The last line is too obvious.

That's the point. Is slavery that isn't perceived as slavery. And if you think slavery is wrong then you need to look at the pyramids. Most great societies had slaves for a reason.
Also, this planet will be eventually destroyed by our own sun. Best thing we can do is extract as many resources as we can and leave the fucking rock.

There aren't any transactions under ancommunism, even bartering doesn't exist.

It's a horizontal system of life built on mutual aid and supported by a peer to peer communal network. You aren't assigned a job, as long as you can prove you're competent and know how to do something, you just go help out on the job site you want you.

Things won't be built for planned obsolesence, but instead designed to last, so much of the endless manufacturing is cut out, so you can help out for however long you feel like.

And if you don't know how to do the job you'd like to do, go grab the books and the paywall-less internet and get yourself an education.

And what do you get out of it? All the stuff you'd like, and if your community doesn't make what you want, or doesn't make it in the way you want, commission it from a commune that does. And since there are no trade secrets or intellectual property and patent laws any more, you can just go learn from the person / commune that makes the thing the way you like it.

Not everyone's a farmer or a pharmacist, but everyone helps out and so everyone is entitled to having their needs met.

Yes, that's where the support network comes in. We currently make enough food to give 118% of the world's population full bellies year round, but due to capitalism creating fake shortages, a good portion of that food is purposefully wasted to drive costs up. In a barterless society, nobody would ever have an economic reason to do such a thing, so scarcity would quickly become a non-issue.

And without requiring money to survive, people could automate most, if not all, the production, giving people loads of free time to do as they please.

As I said, you do the job you like. And lots of people have a mechanical/technological hobby. Even more so would become proficient at it if there wasn't such a steep cost to enter the field.

This is just a portion of how it would work, but I hope you can understand how this creates a post-scarcity and post-wage slave future for all.

true

That's not actually an argument against my free market capitalism

How exactly? Slavery is the act owning someone as property and using them for your work.

In free market capitalism a person is free to work somewhere els.

In plain view, this would seem bad.

But, if schools were actually allowed to compete for students, they would need the lowest cost, and the best prices for their services.

If they don't have a price people will be able to pay, they will fail and go bankrupt, if they don't provide good education, they will go bankrupt.

Again, the same as before, if hospitals were allowed to compete for a person's dollar, they'd have to provide the best healthcare, for the lowest price.
If they don't provide good healthcare, they will go bankrupt. If don't have a price people can pay, they will go bankrupt.

Then the capitalistic entrepreneur will build his own hospital with cheaper prices.

I don't have a fully ancap dream, but lets argue anyway.

If the toll on X road is too high, people will drive on Y road that is cheaper.

And I don't understand the mass arrests thing, how will they get arrested, for what? If they can't pay the toll, they aren't driving on the road.

Again, the capitalist entrepreneur will open a business that is able to provide these things for a cheaper price.

But "monopolies will strongarm startups"
If the startup is succesfull, why would they sell out? Especially if it is a reaction to the high prices

I still believe government has some place in society, I'm no ancap. The army should allways be in government control. The picture put you off, but I only meant the lower part.

Can't be used as an argument, as those prisons are paid by the government, with money taken from the people. (taxes)

But, you can't agree with this at face value, so let me a question.

What caused you to be able to go to the store and voluntarily be able to buy a cheap phone, a cheap computer, and cheap food?

Free market capitalism.

Companies competed with eachother to get better and better, cheaper and cheaper products.

To add, the government caused the rise of the cost of college.

Also, wealth inequality is not bad.

Income*

More material.

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Nice argument, you really showed him

not a communist but actually retards are lolbergtardian by default since you live in a kike society

It is if you don't want to see emaciated corpses piling on the sidewalks on your daily drive to Global Wheat, Inc.

High costs, low wages. You gotta eat and keep a roof over your head, so you're going into debt. But now you can't pay it off because you can't make enough to make payments, so you either go to jail or agree to work for the corporation to pay it off. But now you're working to pay off your debt, but you still gotta eat. The company is more than willing to help you with that, for a small fee of 46% compounded interest. But you didn't have any other option except prison, and you didn't want to spend your life in a cell, so you agreed to the terms and conditions.

And that's not counting the companies that buy and sell this debt labor, or companies that grow humans that have been trained from birth to work unquestioningly for the company, or agree to purchase children for the collection of debt.

Anything goes in Free Market Capitalism, because the Golden Rule there is "He who has the Gold makes the Rules".

In plain view, this would seem bad.
Shit wages for the teachers means shit education standards.

Guess they're all going bankrupt then. Except of course the ivy league schools for the wealthy, they'll stay open as long as rich people keep having only children who need fencing lessons.

Again, the doctor who works on minimum wage is the doctor who won't give a shit if you live or die.

And shit wages.

If they aren't driving the road, they aren't getting to work. If they aren't getting to work, they aren't eating. They're driving on that road because it's the only way to get to work and since they haven't eaten in a week they're fucking driving on that road, to hell with the toll gate.

But he can't because he has to pay his employees, buy supplies, purchase new equipment, pay the overhead costs, and of course, in capitalism if you aren't growing you're dying, so he can't afford to lower cost or raise wages because he has 14 new franchises he has to afford this year.

Get your head out of the mom and pop stores, big businesses are very, very nasty in the backroom and they will stop at nothing to ensure their growth remains unchecked. The corporate world is little different from the criminal world, competition requires strife, and you can't make an omelette without cracking a few eggs.

(Part 1, apparently it was too long)

Well then you're not a free market capitalist. If I don't have the right to purchase my own nukes, EMPs and aircraft carriers, what rights as a businessman do I have?

It's impossible to call yourself a free market capitalist and want any non-corporate government whatsoever.

The free market capitalist prison:
"Welcome to Coca-Cola County Correctional Facility, Prisoner Cherry-907B. Your cell is [Vanilla Block 11, 9th Bottle]. You will be here for [15 years]. Taste the Feeling, and enjoy a Coca Cola! Each 12 pack purchased by a family member will remove [7 days] from your sentence. Offer not available in Pepsi-owned counties"

loooool I love middle class people, I'm fucking working my ass off just trying to keep the lights on. I couldn't pay my electric bill, so the company came and tore the box out of my house, and since I didn't want to freeze to death I had to go borrow money to buy a generator and fuel, and now I can barely run anything in my house (everything, even the lights have to be turned off if I want to make hot water), and the best part is I don't have enough money to cover from the 25th to the 3rd, when I get paid again.

It's 1 o clock at night, I'm off work.

See, when you're poor like I am, and can't get better jobs like I can't, and face the constant threat of freezing to death and starvation like I do, capitalism becomes a very, very ugly and a very, very large, and a very, very authoritarian, and a very, very uncaring monster that will just use you until it can't get anything else out of you, at which point it will just toss your corpse aside as a meaningless byproduct of its continued "success".

And the idea of giving that eldritch abomination free reign over my existence and the existence of billions like me is terrifying. I'd rather have tankie communism know my needs were mandatorily met rather than struggle every day to afford Ramen noodles.

Adam Smith was a proponent of the Labor Theory of Value. This is an uncomfortable reality for conservatives.

Implying you'll have anything better than Ramen noodles under Communist rule.

At least I'll have something. But if I got to choose my form of communism, it wouldn't be tankie bread lines, it'd be the above mentioned ancom mutual aid that leads to post-scarcity and total luxury.

I'm not gonna read what all you commies are saying, but i think you're all on the same level of

So can you explain why pic related is wrong.

Minus the capitalist paywalls that require a monetary sum to acquire the education, the figure on the right is literally what we want, and the figure on the left is literally what we don't want.

How will you pay for that then? Will the teachers do it for free?

Yes, yes they will.

Please read this

Why stop there? Why not choose for everyone be zillionaires with flying cars and no diseases and everyone lives forever, and no pollution, and the size of the earth magically expands to accommodate the growing population and also time travel is possible?

Basically, a utopia thought up by someone smoking a little bit too much pot.

Tons of pure ideology ITT.

Marxism is literally retarded.

What is wrong with you?

Should be called lefts

When you trade good(s) for service(s) you are effectively bartering you dumbass.
Congratulations, you just described how modern capitalism works.
You really don't understand how economies work do ya buddy? Shit needs to break down so people can actually work and receive a living, otherwise you have a bunch of fat autists with machine guns monopolizing on the means of production (?)
Look up the definition of that word dumbshit it doesn't mean what you think it means.
fucking kek.
Yes, because handing over a repair job to someone who thinks he knows what he's doing over someone who does, it totally a great idea.

People aren't entitled to shit kiddo. What's stopping communes/people from ripping someone off and not (repaying) the resources/food/services to someone? The police? Oh, that's fucking right…
Any actual proof on that? Or are you going to continue to make shit up? Most countries produce most their own food. It really doesn't apply to think they're entitled to food when the country in question doesn't export anything (or not much) worthy of trade.
Yup, Africa is totally not going through a major drought right now and resorting to using energy drink to water their crops. Yup food shortages are totally not happening over there as a result.
Again, trading goods for services is bartering you dumbshit. Also, good job leaping to conclusions that because communism, scarcity wouldn't be an issue. When the USSR and communist countries like it had to resort to grain deals to try to help the food scarcity problem. People didn't starve to death under communism, nope, none of that ever happened cupcake.
What's stopping a commune or group of people from monopolizing said production? The police? Oh that's right…
Again, it's totally a great idea to let someone take over a job that may or may not know what they're doing. Fantastic.

Oh and did I mention that those grain deals were most often from countries like the US (capitalist countries)?

Money won't exist, quit thinking with market ideology

We have those. They're called Cessnas.

Capitalist pharmacy requires disease to continue profiting. Communist pharmacy will work towards achieving what Big Pharma refuses to.

A pipe dream for now.

A lot less, at least. Clean energy is a necessity even under capitalism, as we only have 50 years of fossil fuels left.

Now you're being a retard.

It's possible, you just don't want to put any effort into it because you're fine with the status quo

In free market capitalism, the only rights you have are those you can purchase.

The compensation is all the products of your labor, your community's labor, and every other community's labor all for free, no paywall. You want a european racing car that under capitalism only the rich could afford? Just ask and ye shall recieve. You've earned it, because your contributions to the community not only benefit your community but the entire worldwide communal network.

There isn't trade, though. There isn't any "I agree to work X hours to attain Y product, signed, Worker". It doesn't work anything like a market.

Not a bit. The hiring process under capitalism is a bureacratic nightmare of endless paperwork, purposefully misleading assessment tests that immediately disqualify you from completing the application if you don't answer exactly how they individually think you should answer, calls, interviews, more paperwork, orientations and employee training seminars, and so on, and so on.

Under communism, you just show up to the job, ask if they want help, show them what you've worked on in the past or that you know how to do the job, or that you're willing to learn how, they make a few calls to your community organizer if they're not in the community you're from to make sure you're not a fuckup or dangerous, and you get to go to work.

I'm not talking about marketplace economics, this doesn't follow marketplace economics, stop thinking in terms of marketplace economics. In this form of economics, you do not need income, you do not have bills, there is nothing to purchase, the hustle is no more. Your contributions entitle you to continued sustenance and any product from anywhere you'd like, no paywall necessary. If you keep making something and nobody wants your product, it is not a contribution, so making cow patty face paint is very likely not going to be considered a contribution. However, if you contribute a product that people derive long term use out of, such as a car, you can either make more to ship out to other communites that want your cars, or you can go work at another place that suits your fancy until people ask for more cars. Or you could start making replacement parts or custom parts, it's not a utilitarian only society, after all. If anything, Ancommunism is a very, very artistic society where style, fashion, creativity and individual expression will flow like never before.

(Part 1)

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Monopolies don't exist in societies not built on competition and profit.

It's not bartering or trading because you're not giving anything in return directly. As I said, your contributions entutle you to anything you want. I use the word commission as it means in the world of art - requesting something be made for you.

I'm surprised you didn't go further by saying you can't just let strangers come tamper with the local nuclear plant. As I said, you have to prove you know what you're doing before they let you work on the important stuff. On less important jobs, if you don't know what you're doing, they can just give you some OTJ and you're good. On more important jobs, they would have to verify your competence before allowing you to work. As I said, you show them either your experience or your knowledge, and they make a few calls to see if you're good enough. And if you end up not being very helpful, then you either get more training and education, or you go find another job to work at.

No, that's just how the nature of labor and expertise are. Economics has nothing to do with it.

In a society not built on competition and profit, but rather cooperation and mutual aid, there would be no reason not to share beyond stupidity. More people making a popular product means less work all around.

Doesn't work like that, stop thinking in competitive market economic ideology. You're incredibly c u c k e d thanks wordfilter by our current society into thinking that's how things have to be. Don't you understand? We want to rewrite the laws of society and stop tearing each other apart for our own personal gains. Cooperation, not competition.

The community """repays""" in the contributions it creates both for itself and for anyone else anywhere else that wants their products. Even if you don't benefit directly from something you make, you benefit indirectly by keeping the well oiled machine of society that provides everything you want running. In a singular line of individuals, I make ties that go to a community in Canada. They make wheat that goes to a Colombian commune. They make coffee that goes to a commune in Germany. They make sport cars I want, and since I make things that people want, I get to get things people make. But the best part is, my ties probably don't just go to one location, same with the wheat, coffee and cars.

Marketplace economics creates much of the crime (and war) that exists in the world. The rest (crimes of passion, hate, psychosis,etc) is taken care of by community policing or individuals who contribute by protecting.

Bribes aren't a thing in a purchaseless society, and the policing individuals have a vested interest in keeping their community safe because their community helps provide their sustenance.

nature.com.proxy.readcube.com/nature/journal/v485/n7397/full/nature11069.html?token=xlZpei1YBAcDC9ZiiareOZpILD/95D5QL10U5D6ciQeapiPgE99wLvB puoHtBjS&referrer_url=http://www.nature.com/articles/nature11069.epdf?referrer_access_token=arQpQoBCHQrMq1qZ2-yS-tRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0OOiOFJwg8AGydfsSIsPdDn7zNlaZeoGs2l_OGI5sxL2A7dDhfvfmdv3_Q23gC75xob-tgFBpLBy5CgLvFrqvtTwCEE6seZAq9G5fmVdEdHIACuLpXo25v5ljjRs8eNu5I5OnGQMT_aw21hnsPuin3ppKAwM4IVKl0jg3l52PNBKSzrRI6N19BTfLuN31Bb4gSnLkJvdSVXi4BXyAe3djLG&tracking_referrer=www.huffingtonpost.com

Or, if you'd prefer a synopsis to a full study:

huffingtonpost.com/eric-holt-gimenez/world-hunger_b_1463429.html

(Part 2)

The lack of water in Africa is a problem, but it would be less so if we weren't destroying food we could give them instead and charging them extra for what they did make.

Not when it's done indirectly, then it becomes mutual aid. See my previous post.

Authoritarian bureacratic states run by dictators =/= Communism.

Communism is stateless by nature but has been perverted by power hungry manipulators.

Went over this already.
Went over this already.

Went over this.

If you're giving away free shit, guess what? You're also GETTING free shit too! It means there aren't paywalls between you and a better quality of life like there are now, you don't have to worry about affording anything because it's all entirely free.

Vid related just for you, no charge at all.

Seems to be working for China.

capitalism = communism
China actually has currency. You are fucking retarded.

One baseless, pointless ideology created out of someones ass, later…

You don't even try to explain a products worth, which is why your little ideology will fall right on its ass.
This is truly outrageous.
Refer to
Your just like a politician… promise many big things and lie through your teeth. Trading is trading it doesn't matter how "direct" it is.
The USSR and communist countries like it were monopolies on production.
That's no more than a fucking cop out and you know it nigger.
Now I'll quote you:
Stop contradicting yourself moron. You just said you "aren't entitled to anything" but later say you are. That's quite contradictory there m8. Also, by that logic, your commune isn't required to get you anything for your fruits of your labor.
Right, because you can't barter. Fucking moron.
>nature.com.proxy.readcube.com/nature/journal/v485/n7397/full/nature11069.html?token=xlZpei1YBAcDC9ZiiareOZpILD/95D5QL10U5D6ciQeapiPgE99wLvB puoHtBjS&referrer_url=http://www.nature.com/articles/nature11069.epdf?referrer_access_token=arQpQoBCHQrMq1qZ2-yS-tRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0OOiOFJwg8AGydfsSIsPdDn7zNlaZeoGs2l_OGI5sxL2A7dDhfvfmdv3_Q23gC75xob-tgFBpLBy5CgLvFrqvtTwCEE6seZAq9G5fmVdEdHIACuLpXo25v5ljjRs8eNu5I5OnGQMT_aw21hnsPuin3ppKAwM4IVKl0jg3l52PNBKSzrRI6N19BTfLuN31Bb4gSnLkJvdSVXi4BXyAe3djLG&tracking_referrer=www.huffingtonpost.com
Not a single thing in that piece of shit actually says anything to do with how much food there is in the world and how much food would be enough to sustain the entire world. It just compares the yields from organic to non organic food stuffs. May I suggest you actually read the article you post next time dumb nigger. All it says is in the article:
>huffingtonpost.com/eric-holt-gimenez/world-hunger_b_1463429.html
Math they just made up based off of nothing. Not even in the study itself does it mention anything about how much food would sustain x amount of people.
No it is not. ONLY and I mean only ancommies actually hate the state. Communists in general believe it should exist.

So if you start your revolution in the US, don't you think people will revolt due to the fact you're going to try and steal all their shit?

Also can I still have guns in communism?

The point is less work, less hustle, less stress, less strife, less crime, less war, less poverty.

And all ideologies, as with every human innovation or creation, come from individuals. The more they catch on the more credence they have. We have had millennia of the market ideology, and it's fairly well accepted. But it incentivizes war, struggle, poverty, cruelty, crime, nepotism, corruption, and a hundred other things that are destroying our chances of becoming an intergalactic species.

My "little" ideology spreads throughout the world. Had Stalin and Mao not fucked it up by being power hungry statists two of the three biggest superpowers in the world would be communist.

I don't explain product value because it has no bearing on anything outside of market ideology. You're stuck on the inability to grasp the concept of mutual aid and cooperation, it removes all forms of barter. Everybody gives, and everybody gets.

If that is all he ever produced his entire life, yes it would be. But humans have a innate desire to alleviate boredom and cabin fever, and most enjoy being productive, at least for a few hours every now and then. I'm not saying everyone does, nor am I saying we'll all become workaholic drones, but I am saying that most people wouldn't mind a 4-15 hour work week, and when planned obsolesence isn't existent and most, if not all of the production is automated, the amount of work you have to put in drops significantly while the amount produced is still excellent.

Politicians seek to gain power over others to benefit themselves at the expense of people who live like they never have to. I'm poor as shit, I'm a manual laborer, I can't afford healthcare, my teeth are breaking, my car is broken down, I have to use a generator to keep the lights on, I had to keep working this past week in the frigid cold despite having the flu, my life is complete dogshit and I'm barely making it, the only gain I would ever recieve would be the same gains everyone would recieve. I'm no scummy politician, I seek no power over others, just a better way of life. The promises I make I intend to fulfill because they're the only way I benefit from them.

If blood going from your heart to your brain, and your brain sending signals to your muscles to pick up food, and the food going into your stomach, and your digestion system turning food into nutrient, and your heart turning nutrient into more blood cells equates trade, then fine, it's trade. But it's a very mutual system where everybody benefits from the chain of sending and producing resources, which is nothing like capitalist trade where the only ones benefitting are the buyer and seller.

Communism =/= Statism

That's no more than a fucking cop out and you know it nigger.

You are entitled to it if you contribute, but you do not have to contibute a certain amount before you can obtain something. The idea is to NOT DO WITHOUT. From each according to his ability, to each according to their need"

Please to watch the video.

Precisely, bartering doesn't exist either.

If you can't do the math, get out of the market. The article doesn't expressly state this, but it gives the numbers you can extrapolate from. And the best part was my 118% was an understatement.

Guess you're just not good at Agricultural and Food Sciences. It's ok, we all have different interests.

Only long enough to keep the capitalists from taking it back. Then the state is to be disbanded. All commies that aren't tankies are Ancommies, but not all Ancommies agree with Commies on how Ancommunism should come about. Some accept the temporary vanguard state, others want it to be a completely grassroots movement.

Capitalism always used to be run by dictators. Only it was called feudalism then.

Yes you can, it is the right of every tovarishch to bear arms

Private Property =/= Personal Property.

You own you house, your toothbrush, your animu body pillows, your yacht, whatever you use for your needs or pleasures.

You don't own the entire subdivision. You weren't using it for anything but profit, and you won't have use for it when the market is abolished, so that gets taken from you. You were just going to let other people live there anyways, and now they do. You just aren't getting a paycheck for them.

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After reading through this thread i have concluded that OP is absolutely right.

top spook

The only retards are those who expect the working class to be content slaving away for others without recieving anything in return in this information age.

The proletariat is tired of having nothing but poverty and want as pay for their manufacturing of luxury for the elite. It is ours by right because we're the ones who work for it.

Bahahahhaahha

You base this off of nothing but mere ideology. Just because you say it to be true, doesn't mean it will actually happen.
ftfy
I tell you what else spreads through the world, diseases, something that is not actually valuable, just like your ideology.
You're saying that because "corruption", communism doesn't work. Tell me this, how come capitalism can have corruption and still run? The answer to that is, capitalism has been time tested again and again and continually works to this day.
Again, markets/capitalism isn't just a mere ideology and has been working for a long time, unlike your communism.
And you're stuck with the inability to grasp, that people are lazy. What you want that satellite fixed? Oh, someone else will do it. Time for my daily chocolate binge for sitting on my ass and doing nothing. Not to mention, you fail to explain if someone just takes a product from someone else and just repackages it and says it's their own and don't actually work for anything. What's stopping this the state police? Oh, yeah, that's right… Capitalism prevents this, as you actually have to buy the product (usually from retail), and to resell would be unprofitable. In conclusion, ancommunism would just fall under laziness and ineptitude.
Proved later in your post:
What are you saying that everything will be managed by robots? Or that humans will repair the robots? Or that robots will repair robots will repair robots will repair robots will repair robots,,, etc. It's a stupid paradox.
I compared you to a politician because often politicians believe they can actually do the things they say, but at the end of the day they often can't.
Ahahahaha. Nice story bro.
The fact that you'd practically curbstomp ancaps disproves that point, you fucking liar. You don't actually care for freedom, no communist actually does. You only care for muh equality and never actually care for anyone else, despite claiming to be for equality. Ancapitalism would actually allow ancommunism to exist, which I believe would be a mistake based off of what you're telling me.
Still using that good old no true scotsman fallacy are we? Nice cop out.
I'm not going to watch your bloody propaganda.
Show me your "math" then. I doubt it's actually based on reality as we know it or the actual study.
Again show me your "math" nigger.
Prove it. Actually prove that all communists are ancommunists. and I know for a fact you actually can't boohoo
So, by your logic it isn't capitalism? And on another note, not every single communist country was a dictatorship, the fact that you say this means you don't actually know your history.

This.

I think it's really more about being naive. Communism/Socialism uses a lot of lofty language to disguise it's true nature. A young person reads "workers own the means of production", "help the poor" etc etc and they think that's what it's all about. I had discussions with people who at the end admitted that there would be a dictatorship, though they would still insist that it could work because lolreasons.

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Topest of lels.

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I hate that commies don't acknowledge the physical and mental differences between the races. They have no respect towards science and the advancement of man-kind.

I don't defend Stalin or Mao, and I'd be very happy to have a factory job.

In a society not built on profit, it would happen because of the very fact that things were produced for need or want, not to mass market.

Pure strawman. Communism is older than the market, as every tribe on earth practiced it. Communal living is a time honored tradition.Just because we're more advanced now doesn't mean we can't have societies built on helping each other.

No, I'm saying they stopped going on the path to communism and regressed back into dictatorship. It wasn't corrupt communism, it wasn't communism. Would you call Nazis socialists? No, they merely subverted the term to trick people into giving them power. Communism has no place for dear leaders, and any good communist living under one would start a revolution against them.

Not a bad thing.

Almost anyone would get sick of doing that after a few weeks, plus unless you're sick, injured, emotionally distraught or disabled, if you're not contributing you don't get your num nums.

Market ideology. There will be no copyright, no intellectual proerty, no patents, no trade protectionism whatsoever. I'm sure that horrifies your porky sensibilities because you feel you deserve meaningless pieces of green paper for yoir ideas.

How many fucking times? I already went over this.
Nothing worth preventing.

WORK SLAVE, WORK AND MAKE ME COIN, YOU DO NOT DESERVE REST

t. I have never watched a single assembly line video.

The idea that jobs are being replaced by robots have many workers under capitalism afraid and angry. Under communism, this would be seen as a good thing, because people wouldn't have to work as much to contribute, but when you need to work long hours to earn a paycheck, what should be a blessing becomes a curse. Thanks, capitalism.

This isn't something that will have to go through deliberations, red tape and backroom deals. The only thing keeping it from happening is people's acceptance of the status quo.

Don't want your pity, merely your understanding.

Ancapitalism would work like capitalism, but without the checks and balances that keep it from making everything a monopolized commodity that has to obey company rules. You would simply claim imminent domain over a commune because you needed room for a new strip mall or high rise or gas pipeline. This happens all the time already, I will not let capitalism buy everything out from under me without my consent and then charge me money for the right to continue using it, forcing me to work for a capitalist owner to earn a meager pittance in return for giving him a great standard of life. I deserve better for my work, and so does everyone else, which is why capitalism is not allowed.

Now, I'm not looking for mandated absolute equality where nobody has anything nicer than anyone else. But I do want a system where nicer things aren't locked behind paywalls I can never afford because my pay will always be too meager, meanwhile the boss who was born into the rich family keeps using my work to benefit his contributionless lardass when that benefit could go to me and my fellow workers instead.

Would you object if I said America was not communist? Would you object if I said ancient egypt was not a democracy? Would you object if I said Japan was not an Islamic Caliphate?

Of course not, because the political structuring is radically different from each other. And so it is with communism and statism. The two are opposed to one another.

Then you'll miss out on a history lesson about the industrial revolution. The machines were to make our lives easier with less work, but because they are used to profit the owners rather than the workers, labor only increased instead of decreased. As I said, a blessing turned into a curse because of a greedy few.

It's simple. You take the World Food Bank's census of world food production and compare it with the yields of the crops listed, take the world population and the recommended daily food intake, multiply those numbers by 365, ration the amount of each crop needed per person per day, multiply that by the world population and then 365, then compare the numbers. You're left with a staggering surplus that could feed an extra 4.5 billion people every year, and yet so many still go hungry because they're not allowed access to that food because of economics, sanctions, tarriffs, fake scarcity to drive the demand higher so people pay more, and yes, things like bad crops, infestations and damaged freight as well, but what's left over after that is still more than plenty for everyone.

All except the tankies, I said.
Here, I'll open the door, ask them yourself: >>>Holla Forums

Not as it is structured today, as the serfs are now employees that get to own their own homes. It took some violent revolutions to get that, though, and the owner class still owns all the means of production so the only thing that changed is the standard of living for the peasantry from thatched hut to shitty apartment.

I never said every one was, merely that Stalin and Mao turned two of the biggest superpowers from the path of communism to the path of subjugation.

Gullible

I know you're shitposting, but as an individual, I have to say that you're full of shit, if that isn't obvious already.

Nothing wrong with a classless society, and race is just a spook.

Human nature is hierarchical there will always be classes.

nigger that doesn't answer the question.

The question was, don't think people will revolt if you try and take your shit, which you will.

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I love the spook meme. It's like reverse slippery slope. It emboldens the Left and lends itself to an inverted concern troll.

Cooperation is also human nature, why must capitalists always ignore it?

Also nice Shotgun argumentation fallacy you having going here.

Just by being a communist you are defending them.
That's not what strawman is nigger. Strawman is when someone makes up an opposing point of view or argument and argues against it.
You just went full on retard their kiddo. There were actual conflicts and wars between those tribes. Disproving that they were someone how "helping each other out".
I'll quote you for reference:
That's exactly how communism worked. If you didn't work you wouldn't get any food/resources. You are just a plain liar to say it isn't "REAL COMMUNISM". By this definition.
To a certain degree yes and the fact that the there are actually unironic lefty national socialists on Holla Forums proves it.
Nice appeal to tradition fallacy.
Funny how they revolted in communist Russia and came back to capitalism. Funny.
Oh but it is. You can only have so much automation. You need to have people that are competent/not lazy to repair the machines when they're inoperable. It is indeed a bad thing.
You know exactly what I meant my this you fucking nigger. I meant someone could just ask for something from a different commune re-issue it (or repackage it whatever) and send it to another commune and it would count as a contribution. You are a fucking autist aren't you?
What if your community police don't care that you barter or re-contribute products and do nothing? Oh right the status quo…. nice circular reasoning fallacy going on here mate.
Yes I have. But you have to actually have people not lazy enough to repair them.
WAHAHAHAHA!!! HUMAN WILLS IT!!! THEREFORE NO TRADES WILL HAPPEN BECAUSE I SAID SO.
No because that would violate NAP. You can't forcibly remove someone from their property because that isn't legal. Nice strawman too.
Now this is strawman. What they would do is give you a plot of land so you can work under ancommunism. You can't force someone to work for you because that would be against the non aggression principle. Something you have no understanding of. You are an authoritarian for not allowing people to practice anarcho-capitalism. Which makes me come to the conclusion that you aren't an actual anarchist. Not one worthy of his salt anyway.
What are tankies/stalinists/maoists? Stop contradicting yourself faggot.
That isn't actual proof you fucking moron.
That's what most of the middle class and lower class under Mao and Stalin had to live under.
I'll quote you (you massive liar):

(didn't quite catch this one)
You're the only one claiming it's not real communism. Besides that, that's actually not what feudalism even means here's the definition of feudalism:
feudalism
/ˈfjuːdəˌlɪzəm/
noun
1.
Also called feudal system. the legal and social system that evolved in W Europe in the 8th and 9th centuries, in which vassals were protected and maintained by their lords, usually through the granting of fiefs, and were required to serve under them in war See also vassalage, fief
2.
any social system or society, such as medieval Japan or Ptolemaic Egypt, that resembles medieval European feudalism

It's simple. Dictatorships and unfree markets can explain this. If you don't import anything when under food scarcity in the country you're basically fucked. Most people don't starve under (for example) America because it supports free trade, unlike many countries in the world.

Never forget the 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 people who lost their lives to communism.

might wanna post a webm or link to that lecture for ppl or they won't get it.

adam smith's labour theory of value is wrong and isn't used in modern economics.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

Oh my bad, they actually killed 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Trying this hard and failing so completely…Confirmed communist are retarded!

That's right I suppose I haven't killed enough yet. I suppose we should all strive to beat Stalin's highscore.

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How are you going to do that from your mom's basement?

Not even the most pro jewish historian even comes up with that ridiculous number. And somehow lads, I doubt there was ever that many native americans. You're also adding up numbers before communism even existed which is inherently flawed. This is no more than propaganda.

Why so low energy lad?

We took from capitalist propaganda a valuable lesson which is go big or go home.

Being this triggered you actually do live in your mom's basement don't you? bahahahaahaha

Much has been said and written about the economic fallacies of communism, but it is just as important to recognize that communism is a spiritual dead end, a spiritual prison in which the communist is both prisoner and prison guard at the same time. Once everyone is equal, progress becomes impossible, not just material progress, but spiritual progress as well and that is what we see in communist countries and even in countries that mixed markets / soft communism. Communism kills people, but before it kills them physically, it kills them spiritually.

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And it does.
Oh really? Last time I checked, labor hours have actually decreased over time, not increased. Also, using machines does make labor a lot easier/faster. What alternate dimension are you living in? Oh, right… you live in the dimension of making shit up.

Nice false dilemma fallacy. You are saying that only tankies and anarcho-communists are actual communists, when in reality there are far more options. You are simply being disingenuous to say this.

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Try again. This time without Holla Forumsproganda.

Definition of socialism

1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private propertyb : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

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Try again, read some theory this time.

Whole lot of triggered commie retards in this thread.

Nice no true scotsman fallacy.
Bahahahahaha. You fucking retard. You're basically implying that everything socialist comes down to it being "anarcho-communism" which is bullshit and is relying solely on the Association fallacy.

Appeal to authority fallacy are we? Definitions of words are quite universal. Maybe slightly different wording, you are a fucking autist.
Why don't you read a dictionary? This is a typical canned/scripted lazy ass reply that Holla Forums loves spamming. What's that? You don't have the same opinion as me on an issue? Read a book is usually the reply without even attempting to refute what your opponent has to say. And btw, you lefty idiots only say a country isn't socialist only when it's convenient for you; like when a country fails. It's comparable to a kid quitting a game and saying he didn't lose because the game didn't end, but in reality he lost because he forfeit.

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Socialists/communists are so fucking stupid, and they're massive hypocrites.

NOT REAL SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM

You see? The free market is bad! Look at what just happened! This is what TRUE capitalism is really like.

No, it's not. When college tuition prices skyrocket it's not because of capitalists being greedy. It's because the federal government will hand out thousands to help pay for college to anyone with a fucking heartbeat.

COMMUNISM IS GOOD FOR YOU

COMMIES BTFO

Stating the obvious, but yeah.

(((Communism))) is the biggest cancer in the world.

Noice

How the fuck did Karl Marx become so famous?
Remember the context of the times, there was THOUSANDS of "visionaries" coming out of Europe during the Utopianist Movement of the early 20th century
Thats what Marx was, just another Utopianist. He wasn't a politician, He was barely even a sociologist although he is most remembered for his sociological theories.

True Communism describes a "Stateless" society. Thats why it can never work, because it calls for anarchy. Thats why the Soviet Union became a massive military industrial complex, because it was essentially a Dictatorship. Because thats what fucking happens when you try to apply a state to Communism. Its such a fucking flawed system in real life its embarrassing. Seriously, why does Holla Forums exist? It blows my fucking mind. They all strive for an outdated 20th-century idea of Utopia. Capitalism itself has moved on since then, as well as capitalist economic theory in general. But Holla Forums all asserts that its the same thing (read. they all confuse corporatism with capitalism because they are all so fucking retarded)

China is about to surpass us soon in GDP

In which the government owns each capitalist institution and converts all profits to state profits. Effectively offering luxuries to its people for an additional tax. Essentially a communist society that gives its citizens the opportunity to buy certain freedoms.

Sounds pretty fine to me, and being as they are headed to the top and will be on top within the next 30 years if they keep progressing at the rate they are now, it seems as though this slight tweak in the marxist leninist playbook proves that communism can work if minor changes are made.

Its called Keynesian Capitalism you stupid idiot, more specifically its known as the "East Asian Model of Capitalism" Why don't you read a fucking book?

Back when China was truly Communist most of its people were starving and in poverty. All China proves is how much of a fucking failure communism is because they didn't start surpassing us until after capitalist reform.

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Nah read the thread. You don't have to be "stateless" in order for a country to be communist. As that's just anarcho-communism. You are confusing the two and using a false dilemma. As you can be USSR communist, Vietnamese communist, etc etc.

Not according to Marx. The Communist Manifesto itself describes a stateless society. Thats why leftards say the USSR.etc was not true communism. Its also why it will never work

The USSR in particular was literally Nazi Germany with a different coat of paint. Both are Socialist Dictatorships, the only difference is Germany was ethno-nationalist while the USSR was civic-nationalist

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I'm not a leftist retard. What I'm saying is that communism isn't inherently based around Marxism. That's like saying every capitalist country that isn't "Merchant capitalism" (the original form of capitalism) isn't real capitalism. That's a fucking no true scotsman fallacy.

This is why you shouldn't respond to autists.

checked!
based dubs

Leftist faggots once again confuse capitalism with corporatism

Communism isn't a solution to capitalism's faults. Capitalism isn't perfect but at least it's realistic and tangible and not some lunatics fantasy world like communism

In time they will realise your ideology is not going to work, and in time, they'll join us in the sun.

It's not if anymore, it's when.

their* ideology

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I know you want to sit here and sperg out like the autistic chimp you are, but let me remind you that simple government spending in the private sector is much different than state controlled corporation's thats profit is converted into government cash, you stupid, literarily imcompetent fuck. But what is the point anyway, to primitive minded niggers such as yourself that beat off to an anarcho-capitalist illusion, everything including government investment is fucking statism. Crawl back in your fucking hole you slimy sack of shit, nobody likes a pretentious nigger who thinks he knows what the fuck he is talking about and then feels like he is entitled to get angry over shit he is completely ignorant of

duh

America is (((communist)))

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Well shit then. Welcome to world communism, is it working?

how about neither
this is called a polar fallacy

The US has a mixed economy. A good and wholesome part and a streetshitting communist part.

Well what is your master plan for the ideal society, big guy?

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But that doesn't even exist. And if you're talking about the black and white fallacy, he never implied it.

Feels just like the 80s with the stingers

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kiss my ass and in the oven you go commie faggot.

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Smuggies won't convince the commie. The commie must be shown that he is an evil person for supporting communism. Show them the atrocities committed in communist societies.

Or Yuri was right, and they are usefull idiots, in which case they have to be kicked in their fat bottoms before they realise what big mistake they are making

>>>/polpol/

commies….people ……GTFO

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_economic_zones_of_China

Communism in a nutshell

I've heard quite alot from leftists that communist societies fail because of capitalism.

But that just proves capitalism is a stronger, better system, as it seems a country can easily dominate using a free market capitalist system, while a communist one is weak.

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Free helicopter rides for all the commies in this thread

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what's it with pinochet and helicopters, I don't get it. I can't find anything on it. Explain

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So much this

No one who is a winner advocates communism..it is literally the philosophy of losers

True

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravan_of_Death

Fact communism has a 100% failure rate
b but muh china, Market capitalist for the last 20 years.

but real communism has never been tried

direct

Also:
Fuck off, this has been debunked read the fucking thread you no true scotsman spewing fucktard.

to start with, did the workers own the means of production? if so, not real communism

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true communism works so because "communism" has never worked it wasnt true communism
read some marx you fucking moron

Sorry, I realized that I'm a massive fucking faggot.

stop using my tripcode

Why are you replying to yourself?

Because I'm a retard.

You guys are mean I'm going back to drinking my nigger semen mojitos.

where is it

I can't tell if this shit was made ironically or not, but knowing leftists, it's probably unironical stupidity.

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triggered as fuck

FUCK YOU I"M NOT TRIGGERED YOU FUCKING NAZI!!!!!!!

tldr?

Yes commies are fucking retarded/thread

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