Perl6

It's a conservative attitude, but the fact that you can't differentiate between that and hipsterism tells me you have no real world perspective. You're just a kid who reads stuff and regurgitates it like a parrot.

It's slow and has a longer startup time than the JVM.

Features are: custom operators (prefix, postfix, infix), macros, good C ffi, interfaces, classes, inheritance, multiple inheritence, an optional type system, multiple dispatch, generics, able to do kebab-case, the given thing, lazy evaluation, currying, first class functions (higher order functions, hyperoperations) , it's expression oriented, channels, futures, threads, coroutines, no GIL, a shitton of meme operators (~~, ~, ^n, ...), built-in LL/LR grammars (based on PEG), good unicode support (grapheme level), regex literals, spaces in regexes do nothing for easier reading, introspection, twigils (other thing you append to sigils for doing something) and even more crap, I can't remember everything.

Nah, judging from what I have seen these last weeks regarding underageb& programmers with inflated egos, most of them tend to spout the same Holla Forums memes regarding language preference. Judging from this
This is the face of Holla Forums. Leave now while you can still remember when this place had a little semblance of dignity

Go has Google behind it, Rust has Mozilla behind it. Meanwhile, Perl6 is a design clusterfuck that was stuck in development hell for what, a decade?

lmfao you actually think that

I rewrote echo in asm and mine is smaller than the original.

Well, yes. Nobody but a few people use it anymore, and for very specific tasks. People here use it for everything because "hipsters don't use it", which is pretty metahipster.

However, it's in that sweet spot between usable, capable and relatively not used (for certain applications) that attracts Holla Forums to use it. Lisp is plenty capable as well, but Holla Forums doesn't use it because it's haaaaaard or something.

Still slower than bash's built in echo, and without -e.

try useless and slow

How?
You really don't know what the fuck you are talking about. As expected from a C fanboy.

jej, people are spouting meme phrases about shit they haven't used again
why do i keep coming here

You are wasting your time. These kinds of faggots are incapable of admitting that they are wrong. C is The Best™ because it is fast. Who cares if the result is full of bugs, the bugs will be hit so fucking fast oh god the CFLAGS are kicking in FUCK

C IS better. I know this for a fact since I actually submit patches to the GNU/Linux kernel.
Here is part of the last patch i did just so you can see that i know what i am talking about.

if ((options == (__WCLONE|__WALL)) && (current->uid = 0)) retval = -EINVAL;

You probably don't understand this even though it is literally just a snippet.

It was “released” a year before it was ready. So much shit is outright broken (threads, networking, filename handling), the grammar engine that the entire language revolves around is slow as fuck (and also broken), and you need a master's degree in graph theory to understand how module loading works (guess what).

simply eric

Too many features, slower and even weirder than Perl 5. It'll just split the small and shrinking Perl community, which is a shame.

That's always false. So much for not understanding shit.

please just kill yourself already

kys

Well he certainly got you there

GNU echo is not the original.

Go compare it to UNIXv6 echo or something instead.

It's a programming language. You write programs with it.

It has nothing to do with sjwism you autist. Not using a programming language because somewhere else in the world another person you disagree with is using it is absolutely retarded and just as bad as the shit you see on tumblr.

Well, if it's done by design, and actually gets merged into the kernel, it results in a privilege escalation exploit, that can be triggered with two options.
If that's what he meant to imply.

When I said 'the original' I was referring to the original one on my system.

Why not compare it to something with the same features instead?

It's still smaller either way, I was just comparing it with the most used one. I've programmed my own version in C and my Assembly version still came out something like 1/15 smaller iirc.

And with 1/15 the features as well.

Name 15 features of `echo`.

-e
linux.die.net/man/1/echo

-e is non-standard.

Next you're going to tell me all browsers that don't implement are garbage?

Users and management are part of the language's ecosystem and thus important. Whether you autist like to prefer that people don't matter is irrelevant. Muh SJW is still a stupid reason.

GNU echo still probably was what that kid's system had originally, lest he be using *BSD, which I doubt because I remember how it was being benchmarked against GNU bash's echo in that thread.

Anyway, what did you achieve by programming echo in assembly? Smaller filesize for an already small and simple program? Great, why don't we do the same for each utility in the system so we can take profit of this space saving? I suggest we do sed next.

This.
You achieve literally nothing other than stroking your autism by rewriting this shit.

You never just write something for fun/learning? I get that you're talking shit to this other user but at least he wrote something in C or ASM rather than writing yet another IRC bot in Python.

To get back on topic: Python never could keep my interest, though Perl always seemed rather esoteric. I suppose if I had the opportunity to experience them both in the 90's I might have leaned toward Perl but most companies I've worked with (directly or indirectly) don't seem to have many people who know Perl or have already removed it from their infrastructure. Is Perl still worth learning? Seems that these days it's been removed from the webstack entirely and most scripts are written in Python or Golang (if not sh/bash).

Actually, I've done pwd, sleep, true, false and I'm working on a shell:
github.com/faissaloo/false
github.com/faissaloo/true
github.com/faissaloo/pwd
github.com/faissaloo/sleep
github.com/faissaloo/deadbeef-shell (still very wip, I'm still working on switching out the /etc/environment based path system for one that uses envp because /etc/environment is non-standard).

He just wrote another XXX in C instead. There's nothing better except your C fanboy instinct telling you to defend him because "C is super hard and elite for elite programmers like myself".

...

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

A tripcode isn't a sign of worthiness, it's a tool.

too poor to afford a tripcode of your own? :^)

lel'd

So C is for hipsters but Lisp is where it's at. Ya got me user I thought you were going to say Haskell.

I agree with this guy, we should all use tripcodes to better identify ourselves in this anonymous imageboard.
Makise, want to hold the reins?

don't summon him

What, are you allergic to a thread where every two out of three posts is filtered?

Holla Forums - underage tripfags

The problem is people make things too complicated. Instead of using simple designs like was common in the past, or like Terry Davis advocates today, or like Tanenbaum has advocated for decades now, they keep trying to complicate stuff as much as they can.
Well C doesn't fit that kind of model. It grew up in a simple PDP-11 system with very little resources and thus a need to keep things simple. And then they used it for Plan9, again a relatively simple OS, with much cleaner design than the disaster that Linux has become.
So now you've got all this bloat everywhere, even in the kernel (and Torvalds himself admits that it's bloated), and you're trying to find tools to cover all that ugly shit up, so you can keep writing even more bloated and buggy code. Because yes, just because newfangled language X avoids some category of bugs, it doesn't imply your insane code is now going to be bug-free. Quite to the contrary!
And to make things more interesting, now you have various hardware with microcodes running on your system that you have no control over. All thatnks to a requirement for more and more powerful hardware that the modern shit code needs.
Hey, look: I could do word processing on a 4 MHz 8080/Z80 CP/M machine with 64 KB RAM and two floppy drives! I could even do GUI word processing on a 7 MHz 68000 Amiga 500 with 512 KB RAM. Now you need a multi GHz CPU and 1 GB RAM. You tell me wtf that is, because it sure as hell isn't progress. It's a fucking joke is what it is. And that's the tech industry in a nutshell today.
Oh well, at least there's old computers.

asm would be non-portable. Better just do it in Perl.
metacpan.org/pod/PerlPowerTools

That's very harmful communication. You wouldn't talk to your SJW Rust community like that you big bully. Let's remember to create a safe environment so we everyone gets a fair shot.

They spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about pronouns and diversity on the "governance teams". They can fuck write off.

What is your point? Look at some of the more "modern" software: Shit like systemd or most GNOME software is written in C as well and it sure didn't stop the authors from going overboard.

You are comparing different kinds of software designs at (implicitly) different levels of competence and try to turn this into an argument about the language, what a crock of dishonest bullshit. What's next, high-level languages have inherently slow string handling becausestr="";for(i=0;i

You're not alone. I use a modern computer to run a Web browser to stream anime and porn, but any programming I do is on FPGA Oberon ( projectoberon.com/ ).

It doesn't have to do with the language, but more the design. You think you can hide all the ugliness between layers upon layers of abstraction, and that somehow it'll all work ok in the end. Nice idea in theory, but in practice shorcuts are taken, oversights are made, and various parts suffer from code rot or related issues.
It doesn't even matter what language you use, it could be Lisp for all it matters. If you don't keep the design simple enough, you'll end up in the hell that is modern software.
TempleOS is really the only decent modern thing, in that he wrote his own compiler and everything, no external dependencies whatsoever from other random people. He can assure the quality and behavior of every piece, because he wrote them all. And he was able to do that because he kept the design simple and non-bloated.

I agree in that case, but what is the relation to my post? I was talking about the disadvantages of C and the mindset of many C fanboys.

This is the only thread on this board where I am using my trip, unlike Kurisu I don't use my trip in every damn thread, it's just appropriate since I believe my particular identity is somewhat relevant in this conversation.

Yes, that is me, I forgot to put my trip back when I hit back and you can't delete posts over TOR.
I'm on TOR because my college filters Holla Forums

Well it isn't, nice try at deflecting that fact though.

Perl is absolutely disgusting, with tons of redundant syntaxes and obscure ways to do fucking everything.

Perl is so fucking bad, that almost every new "feature" in Perl 6 is literally fixing problems with previous versions of the language that never existed with almost any other language, advanced programming features like

* Function parameters
* Not having to use a separate fucking sigil for every datatype
* The ability for the interpreter to report the actual line that an error occurred on, instead of the general area
* The ability for errors to be handled in more granularity than either killing the entire program or just "an error happened, do something"

Put on top of that the Parrot disaster, and you have a clusterfuck of shit for a language that has always been terrible, which only got popular because the only alternatives for Unix scripting at the time (on machines that usually didn't have compilers) were Awk and Bourne shell. If Perl had been released today, it would have died a quick and merciful death.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Why are sigils bad? In almost every language you have to learn some identifier to work with different data types. Just because it's terse doesn't automatically make it bad.

That's literally a harmful post right there, someone could choke to death on their vomit when they read that shit

Tell me, how much existential pain are you in when you trawl your ten year old archives of snarky edgy replies to participate in a thread like this, knowing that you'll be called on your irrelevant stale bullshit every time?

I like the sigils. Supposedly Larry took the idea from BASIC.

Please, control your autism

What decade are you getting this information from? Java8 can't do anything in 0.5s besides printing its wrapper binary's --help text, on any hardware I've seen.

...

...

This is pretty great. Maybe one day we can get a µGNU

Both print something to console and exit. Rakudo 2016-08-01 and OpenJDK 8 something on a second gen I7:
~ $ time java FastGOTTA GO FASTreal 0m0.067suser 0m0.070ssys 0m0.003s~ $ time perl6 tes.pl6Whyreal 0m0.155suser 0m0.137ssys 0m0.017
Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

You're omitting the time it takes to run `javac`.

that's bullshit
that's like saying
>hurr, takes hours to start, you're omitting the time it takes to run 'gcc'

~ $ time nqp -e 'say("eat my dick")'eat my dickreal 0m0.030suser 0m0.027ssys 0m0.000s

Basically, it was built to more closely resemble a natural language. An admirable feat and noble idea, however, there's a slight issue
So what's better? creating a language which feels more natural and makes it easier for the user to "think in", or create a bit more cumbersome language which is terse, concise, and a bit more mathematical in nature?
You're going to have to think logically anyway, which is something we tend to forget not many people do well.
I guess the answer's going to be:
Sigils are bad for some people, and good for other people. I think that being a more natural language in general (with sigils being just on feature of it, more-than-one-way another), is what's going to slowly drown perl in the toilet.
Too many horror stories of un-maintainable perl code.
And don't get me wrong, I've seen good perl code at my workplace and I've been able to go over most of the logic and understand what's going on.
And then we get to a thick part where the programmer mind-melded with the machine and wrote something it'd take the awk and sed manuals and a team of archaeologists to make sense of

nqp is for bootstrapping the Perl6 compiler, what are you even talking about at this point? github.com/perl6/nqp

The important thing is, I can't compile my Perl6 script to something that doesn't take that long to start. I'll always take the ~ .155 hit.

~ $ time moar dick.moarvmit ain't gonna suck itselfreal 0m0.014suser 0m0.013ssys 0m0.000s
Are you going to keep pretending java class files magically spring into existence fully formed, or do I need to go straight to echo.asm?

You can compile Perl6 to moar bytecode without recompiling every time? I didn't know about that. Should've read the docs properly and not just searchengined for it.

Good gravy this sounds contaminated to hell and back.

Yeah it is pozzed. Larry drank the koolaid.
I will continue to use perl5 since it is magical.

You're right, programming should be painful and unfun, and everyone should call eachother niggers.

Works for TempleOS tbh.

Fun just shouldn't be a top priority
And you shouldn't constantly feel like walking on eggshells, if you're just working with others.

Yes. It's not well documented because everything but standalone scripts already gets compiled in the background, and even those do if they're installed via packages. Nobody would use the language if it needed that shit done manually.

Sounds like the anti-edgelord shibboleth is working

I take being an "edgelord" over being as retarded as you are any day.

Maybe you're just a faggot?

Are you really this retarded?

So "cancerous PC shit" isn't tumblr now?

It is no longer contained to tumblr. The floodgates have been opened a long time ago. It has reached everywhere.
Remember the triggering carpet?

abloobloobloo I'm triggered by a logo!

Call me when there's good OS's made in Python. Until then, not an argument :^)

Go back to reddit. Not an argument.

Not an argument

Not an argument

What purpose does Perl serve? Why would I go out of my way to deal with its nightmare syntax?

Perl has some of the best support for dubs and trips checking

A handy shorthand instead of repeating your post three times is to enclose it in ((( )))

Not an argument

check em

Check my singles

Nobody cares what you do. We're not talking about you.

Spoken like a true pajeet who never used perl to do anything.

this thread is about perl, not python

but perl 6 spec was built on the assumption the VM would be multilingual. That's one strong reason why barely anything has ever come out of it.

The other reason is that people like perl for ubiquity and perl6 isn't that anymore. What's the point of learning to perl if you can't log into an antique unix machine running in some company's basement for 30 years and write simple admin scripts on it.

There is nothing that doesn't change in the computer world. Well maybe there's a few exceptions, but not much. Even C has gone from its original version to K&R, then C89, C99, and the current C11 version. That's not even counting all the other differences in architecture and compilers/libraries, which also prevent 100% code reuse everywhere without modifications. You also have C code that depends on undefined behavior, because either it's buggy or someone exploited the architecture/environment for some reason that makes sense to them. For example, someone writing a game or demoscene prod on old 8 or 16-bit system where code-level optimization is needed and they're not afraid to drop into assembly, so unportable C doesn't even matter to them. Yeah, a lot of academics will cry "don't use goto" also, but you do what you gotta do to make the code run fast enough, or even manage to fit in memory.

perl was popular due to its ubiquity and..... well very low barrier to entry with exponential complexity that came way later. It also had ALL the libraries for random shit. It was like... the language that was born alongside networking so I guess they grew together. Glue'd together. Nowadays CPAN is getting kinda sparse on up-to-date libraries but perl (in some recognizable form) still exists on every system since the 80s.

Perl 6 looks like a fantastic language from a design standpoint, it's like python only less awful. It's definitely not perl as anyone knows it and the launch was a flop due to the retarded VM decisions. Maybe in the future people will see its glory but it will not get a free ride on perl's legacy.

You need to adjust your argument script for 2016. This one has been wrong since running on JVM was added in 2013.

This is complete horseshit. Perl 5 is still there. Perl 5 will be there 20 years from now and those scripts will still work. It's not the quicksand and tarpit ecosystem you're accustomed to in shittier languages like Python and Node.

Yeah, barely anything has come out of perl6 because it was so fucking late due to having spent several years working on a project that still hasn't come to fruition (not rakudo). Rakudo itself is late to the party on the hype new dynamic language train. Perl6 still looks good.

Perl5 and below will still gain more traction because they have a real use case and a large (even more tarpitty) ecosystem. None of that is perl 6 and is kind of competing with a newer version like python2.

C programmer here. If you aren't frequently using goto your code is shit. It's great for simulating unwinding and greatly reduces the complexity of error handling code. Anyone who tells you otherwise is bad.

asm programmer here, disregard this

You sound like a faggot

Most of Perl 5's major advancements since 5.8 came out of perl6. Most of the OOP advancements other languages don't have, and the idea of doing regular releases more than once every 5 years.

The culture of testing came out of it too, which is why you have one /usr/bin/perl and one /usr/lib/perl to run 20 years of code instead of a separate python/ruby/v8 install per app. The alternative to Perl is Docker, a quarantine method, that's how shit the rest of the world is.

Agreed, perl 5 is the pinnacle of dynamic language design so long as you NEVER EVER EVER USE ITS OOP.

Not him but the builtin avoids a fork so is completely incomparable. Lack of -e is a feature, that switch is a trainwreck and is always replaceable by the standardized printf command.

Why do people not talk about C#?

I'm not much of an OO enthusiast, but I used core Perl 5's simple "blessed hashref" DIY OO system to good effect. Without it, I would have been passing hashrefs around anyway (think of customer record data).

dumbass

how the hell did Holla Forums get so bad

And if you're going to use bashisms you may as well use the shorter and more obviously non-standard $'...' instead of echo -e's wild ride

Jesus m8, don't let the curries teach you.

Because the rule here is to not speak to Windows users.

The C# users are either busy with their dayjob or don't want to bring work home with them.

The non-C# users are brainwashed idiots.

Point 1 obviously doesn't apply to the C-spamming freechtard invaders, which is why you hear a lot of attacks on anyone not using C but never a salient point made in its favor; they don't actually know how to program in the language they shill.

You sound butthurt for having to use Microsoft shit language. I guess it's either that or Java for you, eh? Not good enuf to write C or you'd be doing it already.

fukco ff i wouldn't want to write c anyways i'm quite happy with my c# job and at least im not a neet likeyourself