Systemd

I like systemd

Fuck off shill. Get back to reddit and circlejerk about Poettering there

Distro maintainers like it because it makes their life a little bit easier. Linux users do not because it is quite possibly the dumbest init system ever conceived. Binary log files almost guaranteed to become corrupt. Really not that surprising coming from the PulseAudio faggots though.

Fuck off back to reddit and shill for Redhat over there, your damage control doesn't work on here.

systemd is so fucking awful I was forced to use FreeBSD -- I *hate* that OS and community but I have no choice.

are optional

Most Linux users are okay with it. You don't hear them proportionally because they don't have anything to complain about.

Log file corruption is a problem, but saying "almost guaranteed to become corrupt" just shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

i fail to see any problem

More non-arguments. Try harder.

No, not really.
About as corruptable as rotated gzipped logs.

Runit best init.

are optional now*

THIS

What a thorough argument. You've made so many compelling points, I don't see how anyone could contest them.

And always will be, as long as non-binary logging daemons exist. journalctl can forward messages onto the log daemon of your choice. You can store logs in whichever fashion you want.

They never were mandatory, you fucking incompetent retard.

The samefagging insane autist is back again

try again

Or maybe I was doing a good job ignoring them.

God forbid that, on a technology board where people frequently use and advocate for Linux, there are discussions of a large and controversial change within the Linux ecosystem!

Nothing wrong with having systemd threads, it's only a problem when new and interesting Holla Forums topics are ignored in favour of autistic squabbling and flamewars

It doesn't matter, systemd threads are not made to discuss it, they are made to whine and complain, they are not tech discussions, they don't have that objective.
I have yet to see a systemd thread explicitly about discussing its features.

SJW shill

Why was Illumos not an option?

I love how retards get triggered whenever they're called out in these threads.

OP makes an excellent point. systemd is a linux coup.

use alternatives with no systemd like devuan (not done yet)

Also, I would like to point out the shills

pic about shills and how to spot them related, repost everywhere.

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

Keep being butthurt about there being such a large backlash against systemd that even windows normies have associated it with shitty software people hate.

Also, Lennart Poettering should be hit by a car and die a violent, prolonged and painful death.

Linus approves it but you retarded autists who do NOTHING productive on linux anyways throw a temper tantrum.
fucking hell

Like these threads every 5 minutes? Good thing you can never achieve anything.

Because they don't want it.

Gentoo and void exist, you know.

The binary log file isn't really a problem onto itself. It's just that having (had) that as a default says something about the person who thought that it was a sane choice. I'm sorry, but I simply can NOT trust a project to make sane changes with person like that in lead.

If it works for you then great, but I want my init to be reliable and robust and systemd developers have demonstrated multiple times that reliability and robustness have lower priority for them than is the case with some other inits which fulfill my init needs.

Why would NEETs need a stable init system?

Look faggot, most complaints can be boiled down to "It's bloated feature creep", which is true, and it is indeed a very bad thing.
On the other hand, everything in the GNU/Linux ecosystem is like that, GRUB is like that, the rest of GNU is like that, xorg is like that, the Linux kernel itself is like that. They are all bloated as fucking shit with a lot of features 99% of people don't need.
The other main complaint being "It removes choice" is absolutely horseshit, since everyone used the same de facto userland in Linux for 20 years, including the init system. There never was as much choice as there is today.
If you really want the true Unix way go Plan 9, you have absolutely nothing to do on GNU NOT UNIX/Linux (A monolithic kernel).

exactly this, if you really give a shit about the unix philosophy then you shouldn't be using GNU/Linux anyway

The (original) Unix kernel is monolithic and the Plan 9 kernel is monolithic. They're really small, especially compared to Linux, but monolithic.

The rest of your post is absolutely correct.

I made one last systemd release I think. I linked the change log on the mailing list, but no one wanted to discuss it. A bunch of autists showed up to start a bunch of shitflinging, and spewing the same non arguments found in this thread. Literally the best they can do is link that without-systemd page as an argument.

So basically what you are saying is that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are an incompetent retard that doesn't know why binary logging is a good thing.

I'm sure that it has many advantages compared to standard logs, but robustness, reliability and accessibility in possibly restricted environment aren't on that list.

Linus also approved of BitKeeper

Was it bad software, freedom aside, especially compared to the alternatives?

Yet some aspects of that userland *did* change over that time, without centralised coordination, and without major impact on the expectations of the rest of the system.

When udev replaced HAL, the sysvinit maintainers weren't involved.
Now, when something better than udev comes along, it will effectively have to get the blessing of the monarchs of systemD before getting adopted.

Apparently the software worked well enough for the time, but it turns out the project was run by an elitist asshole, whose attitude produced an environment which was divisive and ultimately poisonous to the community.

So it turns out that delegating key aspects of your infrastructure to elitist assholes is a recipe for pain.

systemd is free software. Why would you need the systemd devs' approval? You can modify it to do whatever you want, regardless of what they want

Before systemd you could change any part of the system without touching the init code. No programs depended on a specific init system, just like they don't depend on xterm, urxvt or gnome-terminal.

Not a systemd problem. Take it up with the package maintainers

I like systemd but that's hardly fair to say. I don't know the specifics of why systemd and udev are a package deal, but if it's a non-trivial reason then you can't expect package maintainers to all fork off their own versions, just to maintain the separation

$ apt-cache rdepends xterm | grep -Pv '^( +\|.+| xterm:i386)'xtermReverse Depends: gns3 easyspice advi-examples xtermcontrol xtel xfe tucnak ssvnc slim singular-ui-xterm simulavr reportbug-ng vprerex packagesearch python-lunch herbstluftwm grace gexec exmh evilwm epoptes-client epoptes debroster ddd codeblocks clusterssh

You should add --no-recommends and --no-suggests. That still leaves some packages though.

Why? Genuinely curious.

that's what the grep was for, I couldn't be bothered going into apt's man page

oh shit it seems I misinterpreted apt-cache's output, yeah the regex doesn't get rid of all of the recommends/suggests, only the xterm x-terminal-emulator depends

He's probably talking about the fact that some Arch Linux packages depend on systemd when shipped with a service file.
Chromium was like this at one point.
It's a distro/package maintainer problem. Arch only supports systemd officially anyways. There are forks that rebuild sysv or runit init scripts into packages.

Given that the guy further up the chain was talking about coding a replacement for udev, I took it to mean udev's dependency on systemd and vice versa

udev supports being built standalone, last time I checked.
There's also the autistic Gentoo developer's fork, eudev.
Debian builds udev without systemd for sysvinit.
Packaging problem. Not a systemd problem.
As usual, retards opining on retarded shit they heard other retards say.

and that makes the point no less valid because systemd still depends on udev

It does because now we're back to square one: there's nothing stopping you from forking systemd.
Something like a successor to udev would be huge anyways, and would require more than systemd's "blessing": it'd require kernel changes.
Otherwise, if it didn't, just contribute to udev and make it better.

that IS the problem, that you have to fork systemd if you want to use it without udev

You'd think after 20 years someone would figure out package managers need an "if installed(x & y) then install( inert-x-y-integration-scripts)" type dependency for this kind of shit.

Gentoo has decided to say fuck it and started phasing out USE="bash-completion zsh-completion vim-syntax systemd" etc. for static text files, but that just means everyone (systemd users or not) gets to suffer through a combinatorial explosion of reinstalling everything in -r1 increments whenever redhat's CADT flares up again.

That's not a problem, because you'd also have to fork a shit load of obscure and arcane initialization bullshit before to use a system without udev, or previously devfs and hotplug.

Funny thing about that, I was trying to rice up an old debian-unstable laptop the other day to auto-start zramctl from inside a udev rule. Took me an hour to figure out why it wasn't doing anything: udev wasn't even installed.

of course when I installed that the first thing it did was promptly rape my network card names breaking everything, and I had to spend half an hour figuring out the magic filename to fix that because apparently it's different on gentoo

Such as what?

If you're talking about persistent interface names, no, it's not different.
Unless the gentoo autists with the eudev fork are stupider than I thought and they wanted to be special.
It's net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line.

If it's not udev compatible (such as micro-udev), pretty much anything you could think of.

Meant anything besides micro-udev (mdev)

I went with the first option from freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ purely from muscle memory. I didn't find that page until I was ready to give up.

Because these macbook-using homos have ADHD they'd changed the filename for no reason, and naturally it's not documented anywhere in the landfill of manpages that come with systemd (unlike eudev which spells this one thing out every single update, equally fucking annoying)

Poettering is indeed a huge faggot, and Sievers is literally psychotic, but the drama over systemd is the cringiest shit I have ever seen in the FOSS community. It sure as hell isn't perfect but it was still borne from necessity because sysvinit is literally ancient and no longer workable in the real world.

GAHNOO/Loonix finally gets its real shot at the desktop, and the community is somehow shocked that it changes accordingly? This shit is clearly made to work better on personal devices, both for debugging and regular use, and it excels in this particular area. I don't like where Poettering has taken it from there, but Upstart was absolute garbage and OpenRC is Gentoo's thing so they don't want to design it against their needs.

As it is, if you use Linux on a desktop, systemd jest werx(tm) and can be made to if there is a problem because it is easier, if less comprehensive, to control. No memeing about QR codes can change that

But the currently active logs, those are always plain text with a non-systemd computer. That makes it easy to inspect them in the even of OS crash or whatever.

nah
so is unix

Good thing Linux isn't Unix.
That's fucking retarded
Why are you reposting this retarded post?
He doesn't even know what the fuck "attack surface" means.

and if you choose, you can enable that on a systemd computer

Yeah but Linux wants to be a 1970's mainframe, so it fits like a glove.
Or you could have used BSD init, it's pretty nice.

Boot into a recovery shell.
Or forward logs to a proper log store, like you should be doing already for any system that's remotely serious.
Or you can choose not to have persistent binary logs and forward everything to a local syslog.
Or you can have both.

Did you even read the post? Make actual arguments this time.

Why would you assume that you can get something into systemd, but not into the kernel?

Linus is not a god. If people can slip subtle backdoors into systemd people can slip subtle backdoors into the kernel.

Not to mention that systemd is modular (yes, really) and written to restrict unnecessary capabilities. If I manage to find an exploit into systemd-colord it can't access arbitrary systemd memory. It still has to communicate with the main systemd process to try things like that, and the main system process isn't going to do whatever systemd-colord tells it to. And because systemd has a habit of locking away access to things daemons don't need there's a good chance it will be even less useful than any compromised application program.

have you noticed the bizarre SJW way pro-systemd people argue with you? is it part of a conspiracy? people are not normally like this ...

There's no actual arguments to make, because the retard doesn't know what the fuck "attack surface" actually means.
As another user pointed out, capabilities of daemons are or can be restricted.
He's clueless, and so are you for screencapping and reposting a retarded post like that.
I wish you retards who preteneded to know what you're talking about would just fuck off.

Case in point, mentally ill retards like this.

using redtext makes your arguments truer!

why do u want to make me use something i dont want ?

No one's requiring you to use something you don't want to use.
There's far more choice than there was 10 years ago.
That overall choice doesn't mean an individual software project has to cater to your autistic whims.

No one's stopping you from forking Arch or Fedora and replacing systemd with runit.
No one's stopping you from using Gentoo without systemd or whatever other non-systemd distros for autists like you are.
That's what freedom is.

lol systemd retards REALLY have no clue do they?

At least the typo makes it seem like I actually do something, unlike the autists whining about systemd on imageboards all day.

i wasnt refering to the typeo i didnt even notice it lol

Then what was the point of that post, you fucking retarded sack of shit?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runit

Just fuck off back to the boycott-systemd mailing list. Maybe you can tell your IRC buddies how you totally schooled someone on Holla Forums and blog about how your mom wants you to get a job.

you are really making a good rep of the system d audience

You mean by using facts about the technology instead of
Nah you anti-systemd cucks are the ones that argue like SJWs. You use emotions based arguments, and shaming to try to convince people not to use it. Not one of you can make an argument using facts about the technology. At best you link that shitty without-systemd page as an argument because you have no idea what you are talking about, and need someone else to form your opinion for you. You then plug your ears, and disregard any facts actual facts just like SJWs. You get constantly, and consistently BTFO every single time, then you resort to shit like this. You are a bunch of incompetent retards.

No one wants to maintain the old init.d mess. You certainly aren't going to do it, so you're going to need to switch to systemd which is actively maintained.

...

Holy fuck the SJW shill is on her perioids

Fuck off, retard.

...

By your own pic's reasoning, literally anything you haven't personally written could be a backdoor. systemd is GPL free software, grok it yourself.
I agree, which is why Unix-likes have long since expanded on it. Even modern Windows can be seen as an extension on OpenVMS's design ideas...too bad that went to shit after 7.

If you want BSD, use BSD. Not even being a faggot here, FreeBSD is just shittier Linux these days but the other two main flavors are pretty damn good. I would trust NetBSD code on a space exploration drone.

I like systemd, but that's bullshit. If you think that then you need to reread what the pic says

About half the Debian devs wanted to keep the old init system, but the systemd got shoved down everyone's throat regardless. Strange timing too: their first stable release with it is 6 months after Ian Murdock is suicided. But hey, what do ya expect when the people pushing for this change have Big Money and get most of their funding from TLA's. And on top of that whole fiasco is the army of shills (useful idiots) operating much like the "refugee welcome" crowd. Many probably do it for free, because that's how deluded they are, but others must surely be paid since they post incessantly how great it is for Linux to become all unified and kumbaya and sheeeeiitt. Wait, where have we heard that one before?...

I don't understand why neckbeard autists even care so much in the first place. Not like you actually have to work with any of it. All you do is rice your shitty systems anyways.

Do I? It's nothing but unsubstantiated claims. You need to present evidence of a serious accusation, not berate others into believing it.

Same. Nobody gets this autistic over changes to Windows oh wait

Read his post again, this time just the latter half. He's a Holla Forumsyp driven by a childish desire to be contrarian that compares everyone who disagrees with him on anything to a ridiculous political straw man caricature. Probably sees it as his duty to police the Internet, lest someone make a single statement that he does not approve of.

Post-7 Windows is a disaster to nearly every demographic, including normies. It's not nearly the same.

systemdicks

Why don't people who don't like systemd not just write a different version that works better?

They are incompetent. They had every opportunity to maintain the software stack to continue to use whatever init system they wanted to. gnome for example was begging for people to maintain consolekit before they removed the code to use gnome with consolekit. The thing about people who don't want systemd is they also don't want to maintain the alternatives. They expect everyone else to maintain their software

Heh, now this is a laugh. Gnome don't care about portability at all. They're a bit like the gcc guys. If you're not running Linux, then you're a second-class citizen. So OpenBSD had to write a wrapper for systemd shit, because gnome assumes everyone uses that, even if you have BSD or Solaris or something else. Why wouldn't they keep at least a generic alternative? It's just a fucking desktop environment (not some low-level code), and all the others, including KDE, don't fuck up tis badly. Either they're totally incompetent or it's by design and they're in bed with the systemd crew. Either scenario is bad.

They are incompetent, it is easier to assume the underlying init system is systemd and hardcode everything rather than make it agnostic.

Yeah, I mostly agree, but GNOME really are fucking arrogant. I like systemd but I strongly disagree with their decision to make their DE dependent on it, that is just lazy.

They have also been known to reject code for basically no reason, like with the GTKFileChooser, for which multiple thumbnail patches exist.

mail.gnome.org/archives/distributor-list/2012-January/msg00002.html
It's right there. They begged literally anyone at all to maintain it in fucking 2012.

It only depends on logind, and anyone could have stepped up to maintain consolekit. They begged literally anyone at all to do it, and no one did.

Thing is, no one gave a shit about consolekit, but people do care a lot about filechooser. GNOME is a choosing beggar.

I know I’m going to get b& every time, but fuck you. Systemd cancer is some how less obnoxious then telling it to fuck off 50 times? I will never stop telling them to fuck off. I will tell them to fuck off for every cancerous thread I see. I will never stop until I am permab&, and then I will reset my IP to spam against the spam again. It is my duty to be constantly b& for shitposting in shitpost threads. /g/ was turned to shit by generals and unfunny may mays, so I have made my own, and will post this retarded copy pasta in every systemd thread I see.
NEVER WILL I STOP UNTIL SYSTEMD SHIT STOPS
FUCK OFF TO /g/ YOU FUCKING CANCER

Hey guys, lets write our own packaging system, but have it slowly devour thousands of other time tested, well documented programs! we can then give a few "grants" to free distro maintainers, and have them impliment it into their distro used by thousands, this way now we dont have to spend money writing documentation for our own product and we can just read whatever the community writes when someone asks us for tech support (that we are getting paid to provide) !!!

t. redhat marketing exec

It sounds like you don't know what Ian Murdock was doing for the past two decades. Hint: it's not Debian.

Even so, his words had a lot of clout. Maybe he made the mistake of speaking against this incoming train wreck. Apparently he wasn't afraid to speak out about stuff, and was hated by SJW. You guys lost a good man that day, and now you have instead people like Pottering. I say you because I haven't used Linux since around 2004, unless you count various servers at some jobs (but nothing for me to maintain or deal with as admin).

I think that murdering him for that long after the decision to use systemd was made is really far-fetched. And he was never an outspoken systemd opponent, if he opposed it at all.

Because we moved on to FreeBSD

WHAT IS DARWIN.
WHAT IS NT.
WHAT IS A FLAWED ARGUMENT
Yours

*Because runit already exists

GTFO

what does it say in the circle? "ALL I JEW I COS"?

corporatefag here
Yesterday I had to give access to a bunch of telecom folks to our special lighttpd directory. I'll just get to the bottom of this: why is systemd piss awful at restarting things? It registers running things as dead and pretends they are dead.

You are incompetent

Did you suck dick to get your job? Holy shit people here are retarded.

+0.05 on your account.

I want to think this new trend is just ironic shitposting, but deep down I know these retards are saying it with a straight face.

Here are the facts

Never had such a problem in Fedora. Nor Debian.

People who ACTUALLY do work with linux have no problem with systemd. Only autistic neckbeards on the internet hate it even though they don't know why.

It's slow
It's prone to mission creep.
It's written by Pottering who is notorious for writing shitty software.
It's slow (Yes, it is, I've run benchmarks, it's slow)
Pottering is using it to force all sorts of things such as machinectl.

Yep, only autistic neckbeards hate systemD there is no logical reason to hate it! Amazing how a cuck like Pottering has so many faggots sucking his dick.

Do you deal with linux at work though?

Really? Could you show us those benchmarks? Ubuntu has been booting much faster ever since systemd got introduced.

That's a strange way to say "can be disabled in any number of ways: disabled out compile time, left out of binary packages"
Does systemd require machinectl to function? No? Then it's not forced, and you can leave the binary and service files out.

Just like the same warped definition of "forced" people use for journald.
Unlike machinectl, systemd actually requires that. But it doesn't require binary logs.
You can have ephemeral journal and forward to syslog.
You can have both jounal on disk and syslog.
You can have neither.
You can forward to whatever you want.

Strange definition of "force" but hey, aspies have never really been the smartest. They are the niggers of the autism spectrum, after all.

That's odd, because I use systemd and yet machinectl isn't installed on my machine

systemd, with a lowecase d. Funny how none of the autists whining about "muh Unix philosophy" seem to know about the Unix convention of appending a lowercase d to the name of daemons.

It is just further proof that these children don't know what they're talking about.

Linux community accepts and celebrates systemd as default init+extrafreebloats, but rejects grsecurity in mainstream kernel. That tells me all I need to know.

The D is big for a reason. Just the way you like it.

those cucks are shit at what they do

weeewwww lad.

No, you call it systemD because you're just an underage NEET that doesn't know unix daemons are always lowercase.

Linus mainlined plenty of grsec, the rest are not in mainline because the changes he's seen are 'insane' from a long-term perspective, the equivalent to boxing yourself in.
Further, Grsec and PaX have not submitted much upstream.
They probably just want to monetize their patches like they're doing now or can't justify their 'insane' changes compared to long term development with a proper ML discussion.
That's not even getting into Spengler's meltdown when someone pointed out that he fucked up badly. He's an immature faggot, far more immature than Sievers or Poettering.

Didn't gr delete their twatter or something after a colossal fuckup?

Yeah, and ip banned the guy that pointed it out from their website.

pfff ahaha, surely those guys are REAL professional

Reminder that systemd connects to Google DNS by default if the normal DNS can't be contacted.

bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=761658

PEBCAK

way to become a system where everything works with many colours out of
the box, but no longer under control or possessed by the user/admin.

SAVAGE
DEBIAN CONFIRMED SHIT

That's only if you use resolved, which again is optional. That's a debian packaging problem on top of a debian packaging choice.
They have the choice to patch the defaults, eliminate them entirely, or not package resolved at all.

There's just something about Linux that attracts all these immature people. Maybe it's good this way; it serves as decoy to prevent BSD from getting their attention.

More likd bsd is so shit it fails to attract any attention whatsoever

See? It's working on you.

"Is that with your patch? If you don't allow kmsg open, maybe systemd doesn't end up logging for reads either?

That said, the worst part of systemd by far is the insane binary logging crap, and I would not be surprised if you have scrogged logs.

Quite frankly, everything else in systemd at least has an _excuse_ for it. The binary logging is a pile of unadulterated shit."

-Linus Torvalds

Not documenting any of the internal IPC or task scheduler mechanisms — which is exactly what Debisn sysvinit is guilty of.
Checkmate, arch-using neet.

arch doesn't use sysvinit it uses systemD because using new, non proven software is the ARCH-WAY (TM)

Good thing you can have ephemeral journal and forward to syslog, have both journal on disk and forward to syslog, have journal on disk and no syslog, or forward it to whatever you want.

Which means that anyone's opinions on binary logging don't matter because they can be disabled or configured to forward however you want.
Somehow you aspies don't seem to be able to grasp this simple concept, instead cherry picking out of context rants from Torvalds, in response to someone who was using sysvinit on Debian btw.

It's just systemd, NEET.
Not SystemD. Not systemD. systemd.
You show that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about with unix daemons everytime you call it "systemD."

lol triggered

No one's triggered by the fact that you're a moron who doesn't know what the fuck you are talking about. Except for yourself, maybe.

dude who cares ?

lol who cares xD

Surely you mean xd.

but it is not a unix daemon..

Yes, yes, just like you can *technically* build systemd without dbus as per Debian's own documentation (good luck with that)

You have never once made a decent, coherent argument, you have only ever had pathetic excuses (binary logging "doesn't matter" even though it's being shoved down our throats), waffled pointlessly about the technical schematics of your pet turd and whined about the possibility of unsupported workarounds in systemdicks giving the false impression that this turd is somehow modular or optional (it isn't)

You spam these threads like a fly on shit... there's no way you're not getting paid by someone... no one is that emotionally invested in their init system/pooteringOS

...

What does that have to do with config files? You don't have to specify anything at build time to do any of that. You edit the journald config file, dumbass.

Holy shit, just go back to /g/. It's clear you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

SystemD shills are possibly the biggest lulzcows on this website

THIS

You must be 18+ to post here.

wow u got me! I better install systemD now!

I like service unit files and how easy it is to write them.

I like networkd unit files and how easy it is to write them.

I like coredumpctl and how easy it is to use with gdb.

Why are these three different things all part of one package? These should all be distinct projects because they have absolutely zero relation to eachother. This is systemd's primary problem. Its second problem, of course, is the cause of the primary one, and that is Lennart Fuckhole. Some people actually unironically cite pulseaudio as an example of his good deeds and how he's made things better. What the fuck?

If someone just shot Lennart straight through the forehead, systemd would eventually heal, split into numerous different projects, and become something people might actually want to have on their system.

are you people literally children?

It's you who doesn't know what you're blabbing about you retarded underage faggot, I've had servers running over 10 years without pootering's (or freedesktop's for that matter) shitware it's not about to change because bowlcut and his spookcorp string pullers have a bad case of NIH syndrome

No one has any idea what systemdicks is supposed to set out to solve which is why pootering can stand on a platform and mouth buzzwords without any slides for 3 hours, why they can swallow more shit to "solve" problems they caused in the first place (like a few months back where they slung in a kill -9 because dbus and gdm weren't playing nice with gnome)... there isn't even any evidence his turd "boots faster" and that seems to be the only polish you lot can ever point to

Enjoy beta testing RHs aids complex, I only hope you're getting paid for it

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Name a single thing that other lesser init systems do better than systemd

boot the computer

Why is booting with systemd faster then?

its not?

but it is

XD ok!

my favorite part about systemd is when I bring my laptop to somewhere that isn't my home, and systemd expects there to be a network or external drive present but they are not, so I get to wait 5 minutes till systemd lets me use my computer! THANKS UBUNTU!

SystemD was created by the Jews who control x86.

You obviously did not even read my post, so fuck off or suck the shit right out of my anal hole.

Would that turn you on, Pajeet?

ITT: systemd shills.

Do you think freedesktop.org pays people to defend systemd on imageboards because imageboards are filled with very important people that could block the adoption of their software?

you dont have to be paid to shill
you can do it for free if you are autistic enough

Did you just define shill as "anyone who likes it enough to defend their opinion"?

yeah sounds like a shill to me

So is there a way to talk about something you like without being a shill?

Why freedesktop? They host the project but AFAIK they have nothing to do with development, and have nothing to gain from it being shilled. Surely it's red hat that'd be shilling it?

...

...

yeah act like a normal fucking human

You are a sysvinit, runit, openrc shill for not liking systemd because you aren't acting like a normal human with your decision to hate systemd for irrational reasons. Check mate, sperglord

Yeah right! Unix has been booting since like 1970. But this guy comes along and he's like "Just trust me goyim, you need my systemd!" And then almost all of Linux just fucking caves in to him and his pals. Absolutely pathetic!

They've been working hard to windozify a whole lot of Unix software, including fucking up the location of config files, to make it confusing enough that you just give up and use their GUI tools, because otherwise it's too much of a pain to hand-edit config files. Now that shit is spread out all over the fucking place to accomodate whatever fucked-up windoze style hierarchy they copied, instead of a simple dot-file or dot-directory per program. So good luck finding the config file, and even if you do, there's a chance it'll be some XML tagsoup or even a binary format.
They even changed Midnight Commander and fucking vifm to that freedesktop shit, so now I'm using old vifm until I write my own file manager, because it's the only way to be sure they won't come fuck it up!

...

it really isnt, fresh manjaro openrc boots 11sec flat(cold to desktop) off of that shitty kingston SSD, where as a fresh ubuntu boots off of a much faster sandisk pro SSD, on the same computer in >20 sec every time.

Run systemd-analyze blame

There's something seriously seriously wrong there. Arch on my SSD boots in 4.5 seconds or less.

not an arguement

not an argument

not an argument

not an argument

It was not started by Red Hat and Red Hat didn't want to use it at first. Poetting just happens to work there.

mkay gramps

they are better because they dont make you wait to boot if there is no network present

It's a 1970's mainframe OS, of course it's old. Only problem is you want to turn Unix into Windows, and it's not designed for that. You would have been better off to make new OS from scratch. Instead you try to shove half-baked polished turn into Unix and call that progress. But it just stinks like shit, and neither Unix or Windows users will like it.

You can change that bevhaior. Complain to your maintainer.

Systemd has absolutely nothing to do with why your Arch boots faster.

not

an

argument

I don't like Poettering and Sievers and that's why I don't use Systemd :)

Thanks for letting us know you are underage and autistic

Nice 650k get

...

It isn't. I have two identical machines. One with sysvint and one with systemd. The sysvint one boots in less than 10 seconds, the systemd machine takes nearly a minute. Kill yourself shill.

Thanks for correcting the record, now go back to 4cuck /g/, or reddit, or where ever the hell you cam from, and stay there.

I think you have to admit there is something fishy going on

whether you like systemd or not

Yeah, someone is clearly paying people to defame systemd.
I think it probaby is MS because they know with systemd linux will finally take the desktop spot from them and once they lose that they have nothing left.

:/

It's been a problem in ubuntu ever since they switched. Do you really expect a low skill user who knows nothing about unix to have this problem and know how to fix it? or to even know what to search to learn how to fix? imo its a great way to keep people on windows. I uninstalled ubuntu minimal when it did this on MY laptop.

i play vidya on my manjaro openrc linux desktop, no windows or systemd needed all the games i play are on linux or run in wine fine
no crazy configuration either, just download iso and install onto computer, click my drivers and it just werkz. my grandma uses manjaro openrc on her desktop too.

Run systemd-analyze blame and post the output or fuck off. The fact that your are so incompetent that you didn't do this already, and determine what exactly is causing boot to be slow is a testament to how fucking retarded you are.

I would, but I don't have systemd installed. Nice try shill.

Keep in mind guys, systemd is being shilled hard. This infographic should help you understand what they are trying to do here.

To start you off right, this is an example of someone trying to use False association.

This is an example of false moderation.

This is the literal definition of Impossible proof.

And yes, I know the image is from Holla Forums but the information in it is true none the less and all around valuable.

Great. Now we will get the thread full of Holla Forums infographics, and nobody will be able to tell him he is stupid because that automatically means he is a shill.

Why are there so many people shilling against systemd and for outdated init systems?
What do they hope to achieve?
What is their endgame?

You are mentally ill

It seems like they are all just incompetent normalfags. All of them ran into a problem, and didn't bother to attempt to figure out why the problem happened, threw their hands up, and said fuck systemd. They switched to a non-systemd distro, didn't run into the same problems for whatever reason, and their confirmation bias told them they are correct. They are on the same level as the types of people that when their computer gets slow they throw it out and buy a new one because they are too incompetent to figure out why it got slow

This is why Holla Forums is dead.

Not an argument :^)

What did you expect from a bipartisan politics thread? Seriously.

He's right though.

Your tricks don't work here.

No, he's an autistic faggot doing far more damage to Holla Forums than any poltard with an infographic ever will. It's impossible to have any threads about something this important to Linux development without this cunt sperging out and filling it with shitposts.

not an argument

Reported :^)

Nice strawman

not an argument

stephan moly is a massive faggot who brainwashes people into his cult
"le not an argument XDD :^) I follow richard spencer and milo on twiter and i think gays should be accepted !!"

You're too dumb to see the pattern, so your IQ must be two digits, probably below 90.

all me

You tinfoil hats are so retarded

I don't get this. Who would actually pay people to shill systemd? Why would there be systemd shills?

The idea of shills on Holla Forums is not so weird, but who would spend money to convince people on Holla Forums?

Yeah, I would surely spend money on containing the political equivalent of abovetopsecret, in which a bunch of self hating underage spics share news about nigs niggering and jews jewing, who lament these things and comment on how they are totally going to do something, and then proceed to dropping it after designing a logo writing an infographic full of links the author probably didn't read. Top intelligence target here.

It's probably unlikely, specially around here, but I think systemd shilling would be infinitely more possible and reasonable.

People at Holla Forums probably do vote, though. Isn't it confirmed that people are paid to defend Clinton on social media?

I don't think that shills on Holla Forums are common, but they probably do get a real one every once in a while.

I don't really see who would benefit much from systemd shills on Holla Forums.

Many people around Holla Forums aren't even American or old enough to vote, and it would be stupid to send shills to change the position of a group so markedly right wing. So to speak, it would be like sending shills to Stormfront in order to get them to vote for Obama. It's simply not going to happen.

Hillary is everything Holla Forums stands against, and nobody with half a brain would ever try to attempt to change that fact with sparse shilling. Reddit is a much bigger platform which would be more receptive to this, and where the system itself is exploitable for shilling. If I had to spend resources, I had rather put all my efforts on that platform than on another, smaller and more stubborn one where I'm doomed to fail.

Trump shilling, on the other hand, could make more sense. IIRC, the Trump ads around Holla Forums are funded by his official campaign, so they definitely recognize this place, maybe more due to meme potential than actual vote potential.

No one.
The people screaming "muh shills" are just retarded and underage who know nothing but love to parrot shit they heard somewhere.

I didn't mean to suggest there were Hillary shills on Holla Forums, it was just an example of actual shilling happening on social media.

They do it for free.
That's a good question. You don't see the same behavior from users of other init systems.

Then they're not shills.
You most certainly do. The anti-systemd talk has always been strong here, to the point where I've talked to a lot of Windows users who wanted their first distro not to have systemd because they heard everyone say it's bad and violates the Unix philosophy all the time.

It isn't the same. You don't see people pushing for sysvinit or openrc over all other inits. They push back against systemd.

Okay, so they're users of other init systems that are "unpaid anti-systemd shills". Why does that matter?

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Only systemd users can be shills

t. anti-systemd shill

I dont use linux because of this reason, I already have one bloated botnet and I dont need another.
most distros that dont use systemd install it anyway as a dependency for who knows what reason(gentoo). If you try to remove it your keyboard stops working. How did keyboards work before systemd?

So basically you are an incompetent retard that has no idea what he's talking about, but still have an opinion on something he doesn't understand.

How is systemd a botnet?

I think that calling it bloated is reasonable, although it's not really more bloated than Linux and most of GNU, but why "botnet"?

why do you think that?

Because systemd isn't an init system, it is a full replacement of thousands of programs unrelated to starting your computer.
also
"its opensores so it must be secure !!XD "

First of all you don't even use Linux, and think you know enough to have an opinion on Linux or systemd. Second you are calling systemd a botnet when it isn't. It's free software under lgpl licensing, and doesn't do anything that would make it even close to being a botnet. There's nothing to even say about your keyboard comment except you are fucking retarded.

why do you think this? why do you get so defensive over systemd?

Fuck off.

yeah, on my desktop. you must have some kind of inferiority complex tbh fam

And you could be replaced with an Eliza bot.

I don't know whether it's botnet? But I still don't like it misson creep, always doing things that were done fine by other software, and its complexity will necessarily bring in bugs. We all know that Linux is a kernel, Glibc is a C library, etc., but try explaining what systemd is.

You are a fucking retard

Everything you need for initialization, tools to check, monitor, and control the state of initialized daemons, and totally optional, yet minimal, building blocks for systems that some people find useful e.g. networkd, resolved, machinectl.

You don't even know what the /g/ definition of botnet is, let alone the real one. Retarded newfaggots like yourself are funny, because you use the term and yet can't justify your use of it.

What are you even talking about?
You mean the user who's correctly pointing out that the 'incompetent retards' don't know what they're talking about?

It has already been demonstrated in this thread that they're incompetent.

Let's break this down:

Holy shit, you got really asshurt in response to getting called out for not knowing how to edit config files.
All the benchmarks show imperative declaration of services by a C program (i.e. systemd) is much faster, and that's no surprise: shell scripts are dogshit slow, and even OpenRC's unstable parallel mode will never be as fast, nor will it have as many convenient options for securing daemons without boilerplate.

not only that but manjaro is systemd default, they are just not autistic(like arch) and offer people a CHOICE

So why did you say it was, assuming you're the same person?
Systemd is a collection of low-level system components, with an init system, service manager and logging system at its core, and all other parts optional. It's actually much better than the things it replaces and takes security measures to reduce the impact of bugs. Much of the software it replaces is not well-written or well-maintained.

And Fedora with Upstart could boot to desktop in 5 seconds on a 600MHz netbook. Your point kind of fucks up there, don't it?

Depends on what service is causing the holdup on systemd. There's a tool for that, you know.
Upstart had fundamental flaws, it was not reliable at all.
Between its conditional event parsing, embedded scriptlet, and pre-stop bugs, as well as race conditions, inability to unmount systems cleanly, and their NIH syndrome with ptrace instead of using cgroups fucking up job files that expect forking.
It was totally and completely fucking broken. systemd is not.

Manjaro on OpenRC boots slower with a similar configuration than Manjaro on systemd, let alone arch.

so systemd's main thing going for it is "slightly faster" [citation needed] boot times??? thats it. That is the only positive thing i have heard about it in this thread of reasons to not use it.

That's not the main thing going for it. It's not always faster and speed is not really a goal of systemd (although it's a consequence of certain conscious goals and decisions).

I'll name some things I personally like about it.
- Unit/service files are really easy to write and understand
- User services
- Consistent service interface through systemctl
- Easy security features (each of disabling network access, using a private /tmp and hiding a directory from a service takes a single line in the unit file)
- Root-less power management for sessions with physical access
- Analysis tools

I'm not a professional sysadmin or anything like that. There's much more that I haven't looked at yet.

It has some features that are really convenient for developers, which is where all the controversy about systemd dependencies comes from.

systemdicks
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pretty sick of this constant circlejerk from kiddies who didn't maintain SysV scripts

??????????

systemd is master race

That's about the length of time you put thought into this subject, isn't it?