Gentoo

Not moving to Devuan?

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

Choice. That's the only reason to use gentoo, in my mind.

And on topic: yeah, gentoo is worth the effort to try. Only way you can figure out if you like it is for you to actually try it. IMO it's not worth it to use (got tired after a month and installed debian) but it was worth trying at least

First of all, Gentoo is a distro for hobbyist (being a total enthusiast or a sysadmin); for people who like to torture their distro and do what they want on it.
I personally went for gentoo to force me understanding what I was doing. With time, I get things better and better, and I still have a tone of stuff to understand. I can totaly understand that you could run gentoo without understanding a damn thing. It's like LFS; if you don't put the effort to understand what you're doing, it's useless.
That's all. If you don't like this or if it's not your goal, gentoo is certainly not for you.
If you just search for freedom and you don't give a damn about os, just go for devuan or void linux.

And by the way, people should not be ashamed for thinking what they are doing is "cool". The inner principle of popularity is entirely imposed by our society. If you are thinking that some people just look like autist for loving what they love; that just mean that you are a good sheep. Of course there are limits (according to moral), but if people likes their computer, their bike or their pin's collection, I don't see anything wrong with it. You certainly can build a hobby from absolutely anything.
Too bad people only reacts according to their tv or their favorite youtube channel.

Most users don't have a good reason for avoiding systemd that outweighs the trouble it causes. Plenty of people don't interact with it directly at all in the first place. Debian runs fine without systemd if you're willing to give up things like NetworkManager which a self-respecting anti-systemd zealot shouldn't be using in the first place. Stop injecting your obsession in unrelated threads.

So much bullshit on that page, and several dead links too.

Basically this

Gentoo isn't that hard, it's very well-documented and in some ways it's easier to build up because you know exactly what you're starting with.

It's more like an exercise in patience if anything. I hope you enjoy entering one line into bash and staring at a compile screen for 17 hours because that's what you'll be doing until your system's halfway usable.

Systemd smells horribly bad. And you are reacting like all the people who don't want to give up their confort for their privacy.
Please, stay in your thought if you want, but don't say that systemd is not an attempt to break the freedom of gnu/linux user. Ofc they are not gonna release directly a big windowsified version of linux! Who would accept that! They are just going piece by piece with the adequate propaganda.

I really don't understand people who wants privacy and a more free world.

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

judecnelson.blogspot.mx/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html

devuan.org/

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation

I'm sorry to tell, but you're wrong.
First, you can work on the side when portage is working. Second, you just need to build your entire system following a script one time, and then autoprogram the update with cron.
Just stop spreading this bullshit. With modern computer, everything become very quick.

You guys are Linux's tin foil hat squad. It's been a couple years, why did none of the horrible systermd predictions come to pass?

The "Tin foil hat" squad was saying that every one without exeption were watched, being under surveillance.
Every one was laughting at them until Snowden came out.

What privacy are you giving up using systemd? Don't worry I'll wait. Oh you don't have anything? Fuck off autist.

There were good reasons to suspect mass surveillance. There are no good reasons to suspect systemd is a plot to take away freedom from GNU/Linux users.

Some true things are seen as conspiracy theories, but that doesn't make the average conspiracy theory more likely to be true.

...

Wow, this is a whole new level of tinfoil-hattery. Most systemd haters think that poettering wants to make an init system but he just made a shit one. You go one step further and say that he didn't set out to make an init system, he set out to make software with the intent to break the freedom of linux users? Are you serious?

You can have Gentoo without the effort by installing Sabayon instead.

It's Gentoo underneath, but "everything should just work" after installing. Oh, and no need to compile every single piece of software you use, unless you want to.

>secure.freedesktop.org/cgit/www/commit/Software/systemd.mdwn?id=c4df9055ce135c61567c5dd7b76a9f7c4f5882cc
They renamed it "a suite of basic building blocks for a Linux system" after they swallowed everything, not at the beginning.

That doesn't actually conflict with anything he said. He wasn't attacking the statement that systemd started out as an init system.

Saying "you just need to build your entire system one time" is very misleading to anyone reading.

You are not going to get around the hours spent emerging a decent profile, setting confs, adding and pruning flags, leaving a cli for a desktop/wm if you want one and so on. (Granted it may be fast to compile something like i3 or xmonad, not sure, but both are still dependent on X which also has its own dependencies). Yes, you can fire and forget portage (to an extent) and do other things, but again, this depends exactly what it is you're emerging.

Gentoo can be somewhat fast to install once you know what you're doing, I actually like the system and I can't stand leaving portage, but I'm not blind enough to shield others from the fact that compiling takes a long time and that you're genuinely building an entire operating system from nothing upwards. Maybe you can shave a functioning system down to a half hour or so by just using genkernel and binaries or something, but in that case why are you even using Gentoo to begin with?

I agree with you. And I think that it can apply with a lot of software. But when you have your kernel configuration done, the useflag set and all the configuration file already configured, every new installation are very quick.
That's what make each linux distro unique from an user to another. And the problem with this potential is that it required a lot of time and doc reading.
The more unique a distro can be, the more time and doc reading it will takes.

That's by design, you stup, I mean good goyim.

What could possibly go wrong by replacing all of the most important component of a gnu/linux distrib and merge them into a big monolithic spaghetti mass, by the creator of... pulsaudio

Almost everything bundled (and hard to remove) in systemd is garbage. Their syslog replacement is so shit that I don't know of any distro not providing an alternative syslog by default. Their ntp client doesn't even do ntp, it does sntp which is basically just rdate. Their watchdog doesn't cover the whole boot process and is redundant once you set up a real one, it shouldn't even exist. This wouldn't be so bad except everything is so tied together that you have to install this trash anyway.

...

Is OpenBSD monolithic?

As monolithic as systemd. It takes significant effort to make its parts work properly in other systems, but it can be done (openssh, elogind).

Arch doesn't
Fedora doesn't
The rest don't even use journald by default
It's set to ephemeral mode
Incorrect.
Both the hardware and software watchdogs cover the entire boot process.
Which is the exact purpose. It's for virtual machines who don't want to instally chrony.
If you want full NTP with all of the complexities, install chrony, and don't enable systemd-timesyncd. It's masked by default, anyways, depending on what your distro decides.

Yes.
So you're shitting on a Linux-specific initialization system for using the interfaces in the Linux kernel? And you're whining about how no other operating system can use it because no one has bothered reimplementing the kernel interfaces it depends on.

Gee, it's almost like autists have double standards when it comes to software they don't like vs software they like.

I was defending systemd against the bullshit "monolithic" argument. I don't know why you think I'm complaining about it.

Because he's an autistic faggot who literally thinks there is not a single legitimate fault with systemd.

Maybe if one of you faggots would provide proof of an actual fault you would have something to argue. But you don't have an argument. You link that without-systemd page at best which is complete fucking garbage. None of you faggots that sit around shitting on systemd know what you are talking about.

You're a moron. How does a watchdog that isn't active until after init comes up protect the whole boot process? Why do you feel qualified to argue about things you are clearly clueless about?
Why would you use ntp on a virtual machine today? Paravirtualized clocks are provided for that purpose and RedHat says specifically not to do this. Even then, why would you choose inaccurate, drifting, jumpy time over accurate and consistent time if you had need of correct time on a server? That would just be retarded. ntpd doesn't even require any configuration for normal cases. There is zero justification for going back to the '80s with systemd's rdate clone.
Didn't I just say the issue is all this half-assed bloat I'm forced to install even if I'm using something better? Did you forget the argument you were supposed to be making here? I don't fucking want systemd-timesyncd installed or any of the dozens of similarly half baked 80% solutions they bundle.

This is retarded. /usr/sbin/sshd doesn't create a dependency for other base system components in OpenBSD. You can very well use the OS without it, if you don't ever need to login from remote machine. You can even delete the binary at that point, and it won't affect anything whatsoever.

OpenSSH was not originally written to be portable. You can use it without OpenBSD, but that's because it was made portable, like I said. You can use (e)logind without systemd as well. doas is another optional OpenBSD program, and it doesn't have a proper port to Linux.

And most parts of systemd are optional. You don't need to use systemd-resolved if you don't want to and the rest of systemd will keep working. It's an optional daemon developed as part of the systemd project.

By the way:
openssh.com/portable.html

Do you even know what the fuck you're talking about when it comes to hardware watchdogs? If the Linux kernel or systemd fails the ping, the hardware automatically resets itself. It's the whole boot process, dumbfuck.
If you're talking about the software supervisor watchdog, it really wouldn't make sense for something to be watched before init even starts, would it retard?
In that case, the watchdog does cover the whole boot process.

Perhaps you don't really know what the fuck you are talking about and are just grasping at straws to make yourself look smart. That's what these threads usually come down to: some autist making shit up in order to ramble about the systemd boogeyman.

Fuck off, you incompetent shitter.
I meant containers.
Then don't use it, it's optional and masked by default. How hard is this do comprehend? systemd isn't forcing you to use any of your optional shit.
It does one thing and does it well. It's for containers.

Portable vs unportable is something different altogether. I can write pure x86 asm code, and it won't run on other architecture. That doesn't make my program into a monstrosity that tries to ensnare its many tendrils into all parts of the system.

It doesn't even try, because every optional daemon is masked by default.
Are you fucking brain damaged?

...

This is about portability between operating systems. It takes a separate project to make OpenSSH not depend on OpenBSD, just like it takes a separate project to make logind not depend on systemd.

this is a packaging issue, not a systemd issue.
github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/Makefile.am#L4990
github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/Makefile.am#L5086
github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/Makefile.am#L5356
github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/Makefile.am#L5601
and so on

and even if it weren't built to your autistic specs, you could simply leave repackage the file, leaving out the relevant binaries and libs.

They did it like that on purpose, so they could make the native OpenBSD version as lean & secure as possible, without any portability cruft whatsoever. They did the same exact thing with LibreSSL.
And they're absolutely right to do it this way. It's the opposite of what the OpenSSL devs were doing.
Otherwise there's nothing magical about the code that necessiates two different projects. They separate that stuff on purpose, just like they do priviledge separation and other forms of security. If they didn't care about OpenBSD having the best security possible, they wouldn't have bothered to separate the code at all, and you wouldn't have separate projects.

So, are you suggesting that they include a bunch of portability cruft to take into account your shitty operating system that has no equivalent to the linux kernel interfaces used?

No, the OpenBSD daemon shouldn't have any portability whatsoever, not even to NetBSD or anything at all. It should be the tightest possible code that can be written.
The other, less secure but "portable" project, is for the Linux users and other pblebs. :^)

Okay, then you agree with what systemd is doing.

I agree. I was comparing systemd to OpenBSD because I think they both take the same reasonable approach to portability.

I'm just going to ignore the rest of your shit at this point, but I'd like you to think long and hard about what you think NTP/rdate/timesyncd would accomplish in a container where the clock is shared between all containers.

coreos.com/os/docs/latest/configuring-date-and-timezone.html#time-synchronization
timesyncd is a use case for things like CoreOS.

Either way, again, there's no reason to complain about an optional, masked by default daemon.
That's what these threads come down to.
Just please stop posting. You only embarass yourself when the only argument you can come up with is "I don't like optional thing" every thread. You might as well kill yourself at this point.

wew

anti-systemd SJWs, everyone.

Holy shit dude are you brain damaged? What are you even doing here?

has SJW become the new cuck?

please fuck off and stop using these words where they're not appropriate, else they lose their meaning

I use and like systemd, and defend it frequently on Holla Forums including ITT

GTFO CIA Nigger

lists.linuxcontainers.org/pipermail/lxc-users/2011-November/002923.html
How embarrassing.

Again, you're grasping at straws.
It doesn't matter whether it's for containers, VMs, or for bare metal.
It's masked by default, you shit eater.
If you're so autistic about this, and are unable to build your own packages, your opinion is worthless.
Because it's not a systemd issue, it's a packaging issue.

...

I was thinking of networkd.
So I was right the first time.
CoreOS uses it in bare metal/VM configurations by default.
Deis (based on CoreOS) uses ntpd by default.
Both can be configured in less than 8 lines to use one or the other.
If you don't want it installed, make your own package. That's your distro provider providing the binary.

Do you actually have an argument at this point? Every thread you retards start shit, and then you resort to nitpicking when you are called out for being fucking retarded.

Where's your admission that you haven't a clue about watchdogs, despite your claims?

Fuck off, retard.

No you weren't, fam.

Yeah, I was.
networkd was originally created for containers.
You still don't have a reply to the fact that you don't know what the fuck you were talking about when it comes to the watchdog, you don't know what the fuck you were talking about when it comes to distribution of systemd binaries (not a systemd problem, a packaging problem, that they give them many options in the configure stage to change), and you don't know what the fuck you were talking about when it came to journald?

You're incompetent.
Stop posting your shitty opinions.

Seriously end your life.

How does it feel to be so incompetent that you don't even know how watchdogs or distro packaging works?

Oh my god if you faggots really must argue about shit irrelevant to the thread, can you at least use sage and stop fucking bumping?

Anti-systemd fags are not just incompetent, they're autistic. They seek to derail any thread they can by pretending they know what they're talking about.
The damage control you see here is evidence of that.

You're concerned about sliding a dead board? Or is the post rate of 1 PPH too much for you to keep up with?

FTFY

not everyone who dislikes systemd is going to spout bullshit whenever they see a systemd post, there's just as much autism and blind ignorance on the systemd hate bandwagon as there is on the systemd shill side

you claim derailed a thread about why gnutoo is worth the effort with why he dislikes systemd. not exactly off topic, given how gentoo prides itself in choice and is one of the few distros left not using systemd by default

so how is on topic?

i've seen you arguing/baiting anti-systemd/gnome3/various other nu-opensource project fags for a long time here
maybe it's time to put that spare bottle of drain-o to use down your throat, mate

...

I couldn't give a flying fuck about systemd. I'm sick and tired of seeing you screaming about it until you're 50% of all posts in any given thread where it's mentioned.

every systemd user enjoys a nice cock up the ass

this

I didn't turn it into a systemd thread.
That was the autists like

You have no idea what the word "shill" means.
No thanks, because than I wouldn't be able to piss off incompetents like yourself.

No, it's a shitty meme even more useless than bigger loonux distros and is parroted only by faggots that worship an obese jewish pedophile that wears shirts that don't fit.

Stallman actually hates Gentoo because it's "non-libre".

you're really trying too hard at this point. you can't even quote the person you're trying to upset properly...

pretty sure i do
no need to get defensive though, i never called you a shill

ohhhh fuck
now im pissed
10/10 great trole

It's been an impressive thread for failure.
I don't blame Holla Forums, though. This is the work of a lone autist.

Gotta hand it to him, he's been at it for months.

I don't know about his shirts, but he makes a great cologne.

...

yes, you need fast CPU... at leats quad-core... u can do on dual core but compilation time will me longer... using gentoo for three months, flawless experience...

Devuan is run by mid-puberty wops. If it's not dead 10 years from now, maybe it'll have proven its worth then.

I'd recommend you install it and try it out. If nothing else, you should learn something about GNU/Linux.

Gentoo is an awful distribution for learning about Linux in general, because there's so much gentoo-specific stuff. If you want an advanced distro for learning, Arch is the better choice

You learn systemd with Arch.

List five things specific to Gentoo.
I kek'd.

Sure. Looking through the gentoo amd64 manual now:

Different stage tarballs
System profiles
Eselect
Package sets
USE variable/flags
Genkernel
SLOTs

That's 7, and I only briefly skimmed through

Yes, and it's then applicable to 90% of the other distributions

I know. Still not learning "Linux". systemd obscures a lot of stuff from you (targets instead of sh scripts or no need to setup syslog/ntpd etc...)

They explain these pretty clearly in the manual. Besides, most of these are optional things designed to help you install Gentoo.

Not anymore.
Not mandatory (never used one).
Nothing really complicated; the wiki/handbook precise when you have to use it.
You mean herds? Not a gentoo exclusive.
The concept itself is simple; and it makes gnewfag see (and think about) the useless dependencies, like dbus for everything or webkit for gimp.
Not needed.
See USE flags. Except that it's just convenient, not for learning.

Gentoo is better than Arch for learning how to use GNU/Linux, but it's not LFS.

No, I mean package sets. i.e. when you update, specifying @system @world etc, when you install steam, the wiki advises you to create @steam. That's what I mean.

And whether things are mandatory or not, or whether they're simple or complicated, the point is that it's gentoo-specific shit that doesn't teach you about Linux in general.

I switched to Gentoo because I'm OCD and probably autistic, and I like to micromanage everything. I feel like it's also given me some insight into how GNU/Linux, and OS in general, work, but as some have said, I spend most of the time dealing with Gentoo specific problems.

I don't use Windows for anything but strictly gaming. I dropped Arch and went straight into Gentoo half way through my undergrad in computer science. If I had to do something, I did it the Gentoo way. If I didn't know how, I'd figure it out.

My favorite part of Gentoo is definitely the USE flags. Also, until I started using Gentoo, I've never compiled my own kernel. I have a sense that my computer is much more mine that anyone else's now.

...

If you are only used to Windows and go straight to it, you have been trolled fucking hard and will be angry.

If your leenux experience is limited to Ubuntu or Mint, all of the command line fuckery and compiling will probably just annoy you.

If you use it for dev/system work and don't contain it to some shitty mandatory company IDE or whatever, however, it could possibly be what you already use but streamlined and automated, so it could be worth looking into. The guy that originally started the project still uses his spinoff distro for real world non-neckbeard work and swears by it, though he does so through a Macbook since he hates gahnoo desktops.

You think "Install Gentoo" is a motherfucking joke or something? You think this is just "le ebic /g/ maymay XD"? You think we are playing some kind of funny board trolling game here when we advise people to install gentoo?
If you do, git out of /g/. Right now. It is not, it is far from that, it is as serious as it gets. You do not seem to understand a very basic and important concept. The act of installing gentoo is far from being only the technical solution to a technical problem. It is an act of freedom, a symbolic gesture of breaking out of the oppressive and intransparent system that is closed source software and the beginning point of gradually coming to understand the importance of having actual complete control over the machine you use and entrust your data with. It is the turning point were you slowly realize how UNDERSTANDING a system means HAVING CONTROL of the system. If you install gentoo, it means you set a starting point for your new personal era of enlightenment where you break free from your chains and start controlling what controlled you before. This is the point I am talking about. If your computer is giving you problems, it means you are not the one who is in control. If you are in control of your computer, it cannot give you problems. This is the point. This is why /g/ tells people with computer problems to install gentoo: if they follow this path, they will see the light too and realize having control over your computer equals not having problems with your computer. If we just told him how to solve his particular problem, he will come back tomorrow with a different problem. But by telling him to install gentoo, we show him the path of how to destroy the root of all problems. Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and he will never be hungry again. This is the concept. This is the paradigm we follow. Live by it. Install gentoo.

First off, systemd is not an init system, it has an init system as part of the systemd suite. systemd is a project to build a standardised lowlevel userland for Linux. The project is pretty comprehensive and it delivers a lot of functionality under one umbrella. It does away with a lot of older, often undermaintained software packages, which were traditionally used to assemble a low level userland.

Which is where the contention comes from, as a system suite systemd is restrictive for Unix virtuosi who are used to tailor a system with wit, ingenuity, a lick and a prayer and a couple dozen of unrelated packages. systemd makes such knowledge useless.

The faction that thinks that systemd is Linux's Hiroshima, finds all the added functionality bloat, unnecessary and dangerous, as it is all under development in one project.

All the systemd jokes stem from the comprehensiveness as a low level system suite. People against it love to joke that one day systemd will write its own kernel.

There is a lot of FUD and hate going around. Some arguments do have merit, a lot of eggs in one basket is certainly true, but as with all things in life, it depends which tradeoff you prefer. Do you want a suite of well designed software, working closely together, so that system management is streamlined or do you want the complete freedom to tailor your own low level system with a lot of time tested, interchangeable components.

I have no desire to be a low level system designer, so I prefer systemd. I don't hate traditional init systems though. If a Linux system has one and I need to work with it, I'm still happy it boots and starts the necessary services.

I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!

Is that first one a new pasta? I like it

Can anyone compare and contrast Void with Gentoo/Funtoo?

Do you like your computer more than a friend? Then yes.

That problem was already solved a long time ago. All you had to do is copy OpenBSD's simple design, and you would have even gotten the added security for free.
Oh well, I don't care. Haven't used Linux in over 10 years now. Not my problem anymore.

holy hypocrisy

The author has a history of shit programs. You should have just picked a better developer. Now you're stuck with this steaming pile of crap.

That's not what I said though.
I said that systemd makes use of hardware watchdogs.
How else would you "protect the entire boot process" before anything is started?
Yes, your distribution includes all of that optional shit.
You see the configure flags I pointed out? Your distribution can configure and leave them out entirely.
You're truly fucking retarded.

Void isn't comparable to Gentoo, it's more like Arch. No USE flags (which is arguably what defines Gentoo), no SLOTs, binary by default (is there a way to use the port system for complex operations? Like system update).

And thank fuck someone actually did that with kdbus. Bus1 seems actually a good design and useful outside of that shitshow.

Install Funtoo

this

never trust a software project that's not run by a benevolent dictator

Even when said dictator is an absentee figurehead and the software in question is run by slavs and overrun by autistic SEO streetshitters?

Your opinion is invalid.

I started using gentoo for the first time earlier this year and never understood the problems people have with it.

You just have to manually format your drives and figure out what drivers you need to boot or just use dracut/genkernel and depending on your use case you don't even need an initramfs.

The other gripe people have about compile time is true but only if you insist on having bloat on your system. I use i3 not a full desktop environment and seamonkey both compile decently fast. The compile time sort of trains you to really question whether or not you actually need certain software installed.

I use gentoo because I like having the ability to control everything and if you want that it's worth it otherwise LFS is a better learning experience.