So what's with the Systemd hate?

also, it needs to be noted that you don't need gdm to debug systemd initialization.
the most you'll probably hever have to do is systemd list-units or systemd --test --system --unit or systemctl show -p "Wants" target

From what I heard it gives a single program to much to, thus violating the Unix principle of: "each program does one thing well".

I've been using Dracut + Runit on Void for a while now without a single problem and I honestly don't have a clue why systemd even has to be so bloated.

except all of systemds individual daemons just do one thing, so thats not an argument.

Probably because there was a need or a want for each daemon.
i dont understand how youre so fucking stupid so as to not be able to disable everything you dont want except the bare.l minimum through compile flags and only installing the executables you want.
or are you just a stupid binary distro faggot whining about precompiled distro packages.

Guess what, most if not all of the daemons systemd provides already existed in some form or other. I guess there may be some benefits by integrating them with systemd, but I haven't seen enough to justify the integration in that form.
systemd would've been fine if it were just the init manager, but it isn't. It's all these features that, sure, they're optional, but if you want a clear overview of everything it's doing, or want to replace/modify one, you're going to have to deal with the entirety of systemd.
I bet you haven't tried disabling some features and using alternatives for them. Otherwise, please tell me your experience with it; I'm honestly interested.

You should be able to enable/disable daemons/features without having to recompile the whole of it. If systemd can't (I honestly haven't tried; all distros I've used are either all or nothing on systemd), that's clearly a design problem.

Found your fucking problem. You have no idea what you are talking about, and yet you want to have an opinion on something that you have no business having an opinion on because you don't know what you are talking about. How are you going to "bet" someone else hasn't done something that YOU yourself haven't done as if you are in position to know anything?

Yeah, you're a retard.
All of the optional daemons should be "masked" by default. And if they aren't masked, because your dumbfuck distro maintainer decided to enable them for some reason, then it's quite simple to "mask" (disable) them on a system wide level. They're still there, but they aren't running.
The problem is only a problem for embedded, when you're worried about space, and that's an easy solution by compiling it yourself (you're probably doing so anyways.)

So yeah, more retarded opinions from dumbfucks.

I'm not him, but I have tried this. It's usually as simple as "systemctl disable ; systemctl stop ". Most of the really weird things run as separate services with separate binaries and separate processes.

In Debian you can even easily use a different PID 1 without completely removing systemd.

Systemd is not properly Unix-modular because the different parts are meant to work with each other, and won't work when you don't have some core of systemd present. But it is modular enough to easily disable parts you dislike.

An awful lot of systemd criticism gets written by people who have no idea how it works. Systemd has a few real problems, but they get obscured when people yell that it does DNS resolution in PID 1.

ITT: Poettering-worshipping shills and people who get too angry about init

Retards deserve to be treated like the retards they are. You are just butthurt because you are one of said retards.

But user, it is bloated pile of shit.

Great, another retard that has no idea what he's talking about.

I gave up on Linux a little over 10 years ago because the security wasn't good enough. I had to play sysadmin games of "patch the new kernel with GrSec" every couple months, along with writing my own scripts to make things a ibt more hardened by turning off useless suid/guid bits and stupid directory permissions. Oh and of course all the extra work of needing to add separate logins for each daemon, so it doesn't all run under "nobody".
But my primary job was developer and this was a huge waste of time. Would have switched sooner excpet our servers were SMP and OpenBSD wasn't back then. I didn't much care about that, but the boss had already spent the money on the SMP servers. In the end though it cost him a lot more money (time=money) for me to work around Linux problems.
So this systemd thing is something I never had to deal with. It would be great if I could also say that about the other subversive aspects of modern computing (like the shitty new laptop keyboards and widescreens, and botnet hardwares) but alas I'm in the same shit as everyone else. One effect of that is I don't feel motivated to work much anymore, since everything is infested with garbage.

holy shit lennard calm down.

just define success. systemd is a system services manager, not a mere init system. it's more like SMF from Solaris.

Surprised there's been no mention of cuckshedding...

Why the fuck does anybody care why some people don't want to use Systemd?

I use it on one system and not on a few others. I would probably not use it on the one system if there was an option.

I realise it solves some issues but does so in such a way that you need all their shit and not just some.

m8, it's more than that. It's also a replacement for syslog, su/sudo, udev, and lots of stuff. its_hungers_for_more.tga

w-what? ...s-since when?

It isn't. su is for switching to another user, but it doesn't cleanly start a new login session in the same terminal, so systemd added a way to do that with machinectl. It's not a replacement for most use cases of su, although you could use it like that if you wanted to. It's not a replacement for sudo at all.

Systemd is not a replacement for udev, udev became a part of systemd.

...

As with all poetteringware, you don't realize how much pain it's causing you until you remove it. Not that removing it is easy. Just try it.
If you're lucky, your distro will have packages whose only purpose is to fill those retarded dependencies so that you can remove this shit.

I did this on Debian. Setting a different init system was as simple as "apt-get remove systemd-sysvinit", and didn't break anything. Getting fully rid of systemd only removed NetworkManager, which I could replace by wicd.

Which is in another daemon, journald
Machinectl, which is useful for debugging issues because it actually starts a clean login session, unlike su/sudo
Which is in another daemon
Who the fuck cares if it's seperate?
The only required daemons are journald and udev, and journald doesn't have to be persistent and it can forward to syslog
But journald has to be active because it's how systemd does a lot of fancy stuff that you simply can't do with runit or other faggotry

What's another semi-pleb distro that doesn't use systemd anymore?

I tried Void, but couldn't manage with failing to build 20 dependencies some of which I couldn't find in the first place to install some necessary software.
Manjaro I disliked by instinct and uses systemd by default.

What's pleb-friendly and nice that is left? Does it even matter if it uses systemd? I'm too much of a pleb to understand what the whole deal is about anyway, I have to trust you goys.

arch is the pleb distro

Why do you want to avoid systemd if you're still a semi-pleb? Does it have practical disadvantages for you?

No, I'm just trying to get the best out of this scenario.

If you don't have a good reason to avoid systemd then you're going to get the best by not basing your choice on systemd.

...

Because if your reasons is retarded bullshit, you deserve to be called a fucking retard and BTFO with facts. The problem with most of the people against systemd is they try to convince EVERYONE that systemd is the worst thing ever, and they have 0 facts to back that up. That pisses off anyone that can think critically, and knows anything at all about the technology. You have retards that don't know anything at all about technology trying to avoid systemd like this guy that wants to use fucking mint, but some other retards that don't know what they are talking about said they should be scared of systemd. So now instead of using a well made, easy to use distro, they think they should have an opinion on something that they likely won't ever have to interact with besides maybe enabling some new services.

How about using your brain for once? God I fucking hate shitposters.

FUCKING FAGGOT SHILLS ARE STILL SHILLING Holla Forums TO DEATH WITH THEIR NSA BULLSHIT

THIS

Fuck off to /g/

Devuan

bump

If you find yourself in similar situation, just try to install pc-bsd in your secondary pc, if it werks just continue to use it. It's easier than surgically remove systemd from normal distros.

Oh and as a regular pc user, the bsd license won't affect you one bit, one thing to note is *bsd usually don't support ext4, so you'll have to slowly convert most of your storage to zfs or ufs.

Ubuntu 16.04 has zfs support so it wouldn't be a problem for crossplatform.

Don't forget the autists who gets really, and I mean really, upset whenever someone says something contrary to their echo chamber, and posts things in all caps screaming and shouting about "shills" and "nsa".

You know, like most Apple-related websites. That special kind of religious ignorance whereby you ignore any and all contrary points, even if it's sound and backed by facts and evidence, simply because the religion itself deems such proof to be "blasphemy".

I know I’m going to get b& every time, but fuck you. Systemd cancer is some how less obnoxious then telling it to fuck off 50 times? I will never stop telling them to fuck off. I will tell them to fuck off for every cancerous thread I see. I will never stop until I am permab&, and then I will reset my IP to spam against the spam again. It is my duty to be constantly b& for shitposting in shitpost threads. . /g/ was turned to shit by generals and unfunny may mays, so I have made my own, and will post this retarded copy pasta in every systemd thread I see.
NEVER WILL I STOP UNTIL SYSTEMD SHIT STOPS
FUCK OFF TO /g/ YOU FUCKING CANCER

I don't know why this thread is even alive, OP's question has already been answered in the first reply

Reminder that Poettering was forced to make systemd NSA approved by having secret logs

You are the cancer.

...

These systemd threads are pointless as none of you do anything with it other than install it. The people with a useful opinion on it are those that write daemons, do embedded work, work on distributions, system integrators, etc..

I directly interact with it all the time. I sometimes write simple unit files. That's not enough for an expert opinion, but it's enough for a useful opinion.

BINARY LOGS
I
N
A
R
Y

L
O
G
S

OPTIONAL
P
T
I
O
N
A
L

What part of 'audit' functionality in systemd is secret?
Audit under /var/log/messages is also on any other Red Hat.
linux.die.net/man/8/auditd
You are fucking retarded.

So basically what you are saying is: the ones in these threads that say systemd isn't a huge problem, and is mostly a good thing are correct? Because that is what the overwhelming consensus of distro and package maintainers have determined which is why almost every distro is using it by default now. Spergs BTFO

Also this is my level of experience with systemd as well. I do enough with systemd to be able to tell that most of the people that post here on Holla Forums are complete and total mongoloids that have no idea what they are talking about in regards to systemd.

AntiX

How hard is it to replace systemd anyways?

how quaint
...you're a retarded fucking ricer

Wew, this thread again
Some people should seriously add this to the sticky.

Sauce on that image?

...

It's Cross Ange
Source:
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google iamge search didn't find any matches oddly.

Salix OS

...

Distro and package maintainers are using it because a group finally stepped up to maintain/replace the huge amount of ancient and failing shit that exists at the low levels, some of it dating back to the '80s. That takes the load off of them to maintain that mess themselves and they have a responsive upstream rather than a bunch of abandoned code that requires listening for other distro's patches. It might not be a good technical solution, but it's a much better situation from their perspective. Don't use their acceptance as a measure of quality.

I don't like any of this:

Start a unit immediately:
# systemctl start unit
Stop a unit immediately:
# systemctl stop unit
Restart a unit:
# systemctl restart unit
Ask a unit to reload its configuration:
# systemctl reload unit
Show the status of a unit, including whether it is running or not:
$ systemctl status unit
Check whether a unit is already enabled or not:
$ systemctl is-enabled unit
Enable a unit to be started on bootup:
# systemctl enable unit
Disable a unit to not start during bootup:
# systemctl disable unit
Mask a unit to make it impossible to start it:
# systemctl mask unit
Unmask a unit:
# systemctl unmask unit

And most importantly, I don't like the fact that I have to go through the init system to do power management.

$ systemctl reboot
$ systemctl poweroff
$ systemctl suspend
$ systemctl hibernate
$ systemctl hybrid-sleep

We have tools for that: shutdown and pm-tools
This idea of user getting power access is retarded as fuck. Only root and physical get access to power management.

I don't like that networking is rolled into the init system, because there is no easy way to ensure networking won't happen when I don't want it to.
I don't like that NTP is rolled into the init system.
The init system has no business logging things.

So what you've got is this tangled web of shit controlling everything, with baked in networking, authored by a useful idiot, and I'm supposed to trust it?
An airgaped systemd OS? Not possible. Next thing pottering will implement is audio playback for critical error messages.

No thanks.

Mint doesn't have a things like slapt-src.

..a things
weew

No, it's any login session.
Which you can do remotely.
And it's still fucking retarded, it's an unsolved problem from the pmutils days because any faggot with root can reboot the machine despite the fact that there's pseudoterminals with running jobs.

No one cares.

Why don't you like that?

Shutting down traditionally involves the init system. The init system exiting is the signal for the kernel to exit. There's nothing weird about systemd following that. Giving users power access through systemd is no worse than giving them access through sudo.

Can't you just disable systemd-networkd?

Good thing Systemd is more than an init system, then.

Yes, you can. He's just fucking retarded. And having networkd enabled or disabled doesn't mean "networking won't happen." He's a retard that doesn't know how Linux networking works.
The init system isn't logging anything. journald is, it has an option to be ephemeral and have syslog do persistent logging, but journald is how systemd does all of the status magic and various other functionality.

So basically you have no argument except

Are you really that dense??

ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thompson.pdf

...

systemd a shit

Those aren't arguments. Those are arguments by assertion, which is a fallacy

Basically what said

A symptom of autism is agitation or rejection to changes in routine

Let's assume that systemd is actually great in what it wants to do.

The attitude of the team has been extremely anti-social, several times Linus or the Community has had to beat bad ideas out of them or hound them into admitting that their way breaks everything and shouldn't make the rest of the world of software pivot around them.

E.g. Denying any ability to maintain a session, via screen or tmux.

Flooding the kernel debug logs to the point of crashing the system and calling that "acceptable behaviour".

Hell one of them got outright banned for that one,

There's plenty more insight in this thread.

linux.slashdot.org/story/14/04/04/1523231/linus-torvalds-suspends-key-linux-developer

No one fucking cares.
The logind changes don't do that, at all. You have an option to, or you have an option not to. You have no idea what you're talking about.
1. That was never acceptable behavior, and if you knew what you were talking about the real issue in question was a Linux kernel bug itself. The kernel was broken, and the kernel was fixed.
2. The follow up bug in systemd, whether systemd should parse the Linux kernel command line for a 'debug' that was not namespaced, was not a bug that broke the kernel independently of the kernel bug.
3. No one was banned, you fucking retard.

Except it was Lennard who was calling people who didn't switch to systemd old people who just hate change. Gentoo devs only wanted to use something else or felt that systemd wasn't stable enough at the time, they weren't going around pushing openrc down people's throats.

Lennard and his ilk are largely responsible for this "you shouldn't like something that I don't like" shit and then you go around complaining "why you so mean, systemd shills didu nuthin".

Non-ironically, just use Manjaro. It's just as semi-pleb as mint, and you can remove systemd quite trivially, by following their wiki.

Please tell me how to get such a fancy bootup screen senpai. I am looking around but I can't find anything. I'm having a hard time even getting the tux to display, due to X not liking it when using "nomodeset", and my intel video driver changing the mode as soon as it can, removing the tux as fast as it appeared for the rest of the bootup.

tl;dr systemd does the same to linux what win 10 did to windows.

Can you elaborate?

So autists that always want bleeding edge are shitting on autists that don't like change, and both groups of autists are shitting on people that have an opinion.

Good to know that all autists love the threads that SystemD spawns.

he can not.

Not an argument

No, they are facts with citations.

What would be a notable issue with systemd that even a pleb with little experience with the command line would see?

Most plebs will never interact with systemd and will never know it even exists. I've never experienced any notable issues with systemd. The only issue I have ever run into was when I used a grsec kernel and had something fail to load at boot which was easily fixed by editing a grsec setting. This is obviously not a scenario a pleb will ever find themselves in. And in this situation I was using a security kernel that obviously requires extra work to maintain.

How many plebs even install things that require them to enable, or start/stop a new service that didn't come enabled by default? I know my friend whose laptop I installed linux on hasn't ever had interact with systemd. And even if they did do that, it is so simple to systemctl enable service, systemctl start service, etc. that I can't possibly think of anything that could go wrong.

systemd is shit
go kys lennart

Soon the Linux userspace will just be the Kernel and systemd.

grat job bumping this 16 day old thread with your shitpost

it was the last post on the catalog, Holla Forums is a shit board

Systemd is great for linux newfags and desktop users who want their linux install to be as windows as possible. For them, they find poetterring' svchost.exe clone amazing.

For anyone else, it's trash.

...

So you don't even know what "userspace" means, do you?

The userspace of an operating system is literally everything except the kernel.