>villain is evil and wants to do bad things because...h-he just does, okay?!What a waste of an amazing design...

>villain is evil and wants to do bad things because...h-he just does, okay?!What a waste of an amazing design. He literally has no reason whatsoever for what he does.

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>>637569714>amazing design>generic ronin guy but greenwow.

>>637569714why doesn't he just kill zelda?

>amazing design>generic persian guy but green

>>637569714He wants revenge and/or to rule... or some shit. Motivation is not really the issue so much as his lack of personality. Same goes for Link and Zelda and pretty much every character in this shallow franchise.It's just a basic fairytale framework but with shit gameplay. Let me know when Nintendo hires game designers instead of jobbers.

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>>637569843>>637570081Okay then, faggots, post what you think amazing design looks like.

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>>637570832>No repliesThat's what I thought

Leftists are really desperate to deny the existance of evil

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>muh story

>He literally has no reason whatsoever for what he does.That's what evil is

>>637569714He does it because it's fun

>>637569714>>637570347>NOOOOO WHY DIDN'T YOU WRITE SOME GAY SOI STORY ABOUT LE REDEMPTION OR SOME SHIT!Kill yourselves. All that matters is "guy is bad, beat him". Nothing else is important but the gameplay.

>>637569714Eh. I don't really feel weeb Ganondorf.

Villains that are simply evil and lust for power are the best ones because that's how it works in the real world.Warlords an crazy emperors and conquerors aren't doing it because of le complex reason, they're just guys with anti-social personality disorder (psychopaths) who just want a lot of power and prestige.This meme here is wrong. The top tier villains are those that simply lust for power.

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>>637573839this. there is a reason why malice for malice's sake has been a story as old as human history. some humans simply enjoy power, suffering and destruction. and they are most definitely the most dangerous. thus making them the most excellent primary antagonists in a story.

>>637569714look at his nosehe is modelled after white people that's why he is senselessly evil

>>637570832Why bother? You are obviously underage and easily impressionable.

>>637569714>villain is evil and wants to do bad things because...h-he just does, okay?!That's been every Zelda's plot since the fucking first game.I don't know how fans can possibly think Zelda has a good plot when every game is just "Link is good and Ganon is evil because he just is". I've seen Mario games with deeper plot than this, I can't believe I'm fucking saying that.Zelda fans are part of a cult, it's scary.

>>637573839Mephiles the best villain. He could've won at any time he wanted to he just wanted to pervert Silver's heroism and hatred for Iblis and make him cause Iblis' birth.Final boss should've been Silver vs Mephiles, ends Silver's maturity arc, especially since Sonic and Shadow each couldn't beat him.

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>>637574774zelda fans unironically think that ocarina of time is the peak of human art. period. its fucking insane. they are beyond saving.

>>637574774>>637574898Villians who's motivation is simply to be the king are the best villians bar none

>>637569714Good. I'm unironically tired of how every villain these days needs some tragic backstory to justify why he's evil or that they have good intentions but chose bad methods or some bullshit like that. Let me fight someone who is just evil and does genuinely heinous shit because they want to rule or cause general destruction.

>>637572804leftist are evil and subversive by nature

>>637569714And there is nothing wrong with it. Deal with it tranny

>>637569714lmao are these actually mirrored? what does the original even look like?

>>637574985yes, but zelda still sucks.sauron is just evil and is greatganon is just evil and sucks

>>637570832okay here you go

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>>637574453That's a cop out

>>637573375why do you work in extremes, it doesn't have to be either shitty villain with sob story or just meaningless nothing for the point of gameplay.

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>>637574774The appeal of Zelda's writing has always been the charming side characters you meet and the world itself. Koizumi's games realized it the best with Links Awakening and Majora's Mask but most of the 3D Zelda's do this to some degree. Having a 6 hour cinematic story for a save the world fairy tale plot is borderline worthless, you want to save the kingdom because you played through interesting scenarios with the funny rock people and the hot girl at the stable and letting them die under Ganons rule would feel bad.It's why I don't really understand how certain people feel Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom have ruined Zelda's storytelling by being nonlinear, it's barely any different than what it used to be. Skyward Sword is the one time they tried to do away with the idea of sages and overworld towns for them to inhabit in favor of a more cinematic and grandiose fantasy story and it's easily got the worst writing in the series.

>>637575887i would do anything for the hot redhead horse girl

>>637569714There are rapist and serial killers in real life.

>>637569714why is everyone in this thread immediately jumping to "if not blank slate of a character that's nothing but a walking healthbar then it MUST have a boring backstory to being evil". the best villains aren't all robots who attack because they work directly off of emotion, now it's nice to simply have an evil man who is evil because he is just born that way but fuck id take someone evil with an actual goal and reasons along with being the spawn evil. sick of the modern V contrarion only having a single bait post being "LE [opposite of extreme of the subject] T.REDDIT TRANNY", make your bait funny or original at least.

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>>637570832No one will respond honestly because they are thin skinned faggots only capable of throwing shit.

>>637569714>STR vs INT

>>637569714I'm going to preface this with I cannot stand Nintendo and do not understand the appeal of any of it's gamesHoweverYou should not have every villain be sympathetic, in fact the fewer the better; one or two every now and then is fine but when every villain has a justification and backstory behind their misdeeds it gets boring and predictablePeople dislike Shadow of War games for messing with LotR canon (which given RoP now exists I hope people are kinder to them because it's obvious they clearly cared and respected the lore), BUT to their credit they never tried to revise Sauron into a sympathetic character, if anything they highlighted how evil he was

>>637569714>10.000 years old Ganon >Power creep so big that he gets sealed and still seep evil causing calamity Ganon Why is Ganon so fucking pissed anyways?

>>637580143He's mad about dragon fuckers

>>637569714It's Nintendo, they're literally incapable of making villains that aren't like that.

>>637580241Dragon fuckers are always based fuck off

>>637573839this tier list implying griffith is shit tier kek

>>637575887>It's why I don't really understand how certain people feel Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom have ruined Zelda's storytelling by being nonlinearNo one is compaining about that. We're complaining because Zelda in general as a franchise BARELY has a plot, it never goes beyond the most basic form of "good vs evil" and people treat is as peak fiction.

>>637569714Never have I ever wanted to see a hyrule burn as much as this bland hyrule. But then again, even the zombies are bland in this hyrule. Not even ganon can get it right.... though I like the red hand thingys. Make ALL enemies like that next time.

>>637573005kys and go play with your fucking bing bing wahoo toys, zoomer.>>637573375>>637574986>>637575137What was ganondorf trying to accomplish? Let's say he wins. He conquers the world and destroys everyone. What then? What will he do with his life? He'll just be in a castle surrounded by fucking pigs all day, with nothing to fight and nothing to do. There's literally no point.>>637576173A rapist, I can understand. They want to have sex with women, and that's totally understandable and a reasonable goal, even if rape is morally reprehensible. But ganon is just "destroy everything". And then what? What the fuck happens when you destroy everything? You're just gonna sit around with nothing for the rest of your life

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>>637580515Griffith is way more complex than that though. He's clearly been abused and mistreated in his life to the point of insanity.He's pretty similar to Guts in many ways.

>>637576692t. reddit tranny

>>637580726>What the fuck happens when you destroy everything?Catharsis. Same reason for raping something.

>>637579897see >>637580726 . They don't need to be sympathetic. But they have to have an actual understandable reason for what they fuck they're doing. It can't just be "I'mma destroy the world because...I JUST AM, OKAY?!?"

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the thing with ganondorf in totk is that he's pure evil, but he lacks the presence that ganondorf in OoT, WW, and arguably BotW had

>>637580959raping someone, you can keep doing. It's the gift that keeps giving. If you spend your life raping people, it'll be a good life. But ganon literally will destroy the world once, and then what? The rest of his life, he'll just be sitting around like a faggot bored out of his mind and wanting to die. It literally makes no sense

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>>637581026don't deny this kino

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>>637581026the biggest problem is he doesn't even do something like turn into a giant trident-wielding pig monster and instead you just fight him as a fucking dragon

>>637569714>>villain is evil and wants to do bad things because...h-he just does, okay?!Friendly reminder that this is the best villain tier.Villain rankings:>s tier: evil because evil, he just wants to see the world burn - no bullshit>a tier: evil because he wants to rule or keep control/because he has his own idea of what the world should be>b tier: evil because evolution blabla>c tier: evil because of some tragic backstory bullshit that or because muh revenge

the ultimate midwittery is the implication that genuinely shitty evil people cant exist

>>637581280This pissed me off. The dragon fight was fucking dogshit and basically an autoscroller. Everyone hates the Pig autoscroller in BOTW and these retards made the exact same mistake again but this time in the sky. They could have just made it a cutscene. At least it would be shorter.

>>637581112it will grant him an everlasting orgasmthat's just how evil he is god I love the bad guy



I've been playing for like 30 hours and genuinely don't know where mummy Ganondorf went after the intro cutscene as I didn't watch it all the way through. A few of the memories have been about how he's unbeatable even in current day, but all the current day shit is "Where is Zelda? Gotta find Zelda," instead of any focus on fighting Ganondorf. Maybe he's posing as Zelda and walking around causing trouble, but he's also been leading Link and the new sages to a bunch of power, so I'm unsure why he'd do that.

>>637581267200% kino

>>637581412>the only reason one can do bad things is if they have a tragic backstoryyour IQ is literally room temperature, user

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>>637576692good post, user

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>>637582151finish all the main quests, and you'll find out where ganon is (though it's pretty obvious, you can probably guess where he is).

>>637581267Well of course. Even in TP, Dorf still had a sense of presence, even if Zant was running of the show most the time. So, when this incarnation of Dorf that is pretty much a massive asshole with a god complex bites the dust in such a way, it feels cathartic.>Him trying to call upon his triforce only for it to dissappearYup, certified kino.

I don't even feel like doing any more side quests because I know the end of the game will be shit, just want to end it now

>>637570832>post what you think amazing design looks like.Purah is perfect.

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>>637569714The problem isn’t that he’s le bad it’s that he’s boring as fuck. The good guys are all equally boring hametsu no mars tier slop.

>>637581026Ganondorf was a plotter in OoT, WW and TP.In BotW he's just blood for the blood god which is fucking retarded. He's the king of the gerudo and has been humiliated and enslaved by the bigger state (hyrule). So it makes sense why he attacks hyrule.Why he's not like that in other games is beyond me (this includes ALttP, though it's able to use the excuse of being before OoT's lore). I thought Majora had basically taken his role as a "blood for blood's sake" in the universe... yet they never talk about Majora even though there are hints in symbols everywhere. It's odd. The Gerudo even still have something that looks like majora on their not-crescent-moon-star nu-symbol.


>>637582957all the sidequests are useless complete shit as well.

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>>637582151Maybe he just wants a worthy opponent...?I won't lie, I'm with OP on Ganondorf being a bit wasted, at least so far. I'm pretty sure I've only had him speak once at the start of the game and every piece of information I've got about him so far is A. He's the evilest man to have ever lived and B. He's the fucking strong.Unless some big reveal is on the way he's probably the weakest Dorf presentation-wise.

>>637581518Why didn't they use the red hand thingys like tentacles or something? Seems a bit of a wasted opportunity.

>>637582957I just wish they didn't relegate all the gear to treasure chests again. So far the only quests that have rewarded me with gear are ones that point me to a fucking treasure chest.I want to do a huge quest chain that rewards me with cool things that isn't just another silver fucking rupee.

>>637583185i hate memes but this is pretty alright.

>>637581779You will never be a reddit tranny.

>>637569714looks like you didn't play skyward sword, which is canon to tears of the kingdom since fi is present ;^))))

>>637570832>>637569843Personally I think this is tied with TP Ganondorf for best design. TP has the best costume, TotK dorf has the best face, build, and beard.

>>637583316The only one I've actually enjoyed was helping the girl sell cheese and milk because she reminded me of malon

>>637583316I feel so fucking angry after the Kohga questline. Nothing happens. You don't get shit.In fact most of the side-quests are nothing but bait for pointless shit that is not worth the time or hassle.

>>637580726The world fucking sucks and needs to end. Simple as. He'd be a hero for ending existence

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>>637583647This is probably the worst offender, the whole time I was thinking "Oh maybe I 'll get a second yiga technique or cool armour"

>>637583576See, Demise, I'm fine with. He's literally a demon personification of evil, and he's not presented as a human. But ganon is literally presented as a human that can have conversations with Rauru about a kingdom. Ganon is a fucking human. And yet there's literally no reason for the goal he tries to accomplish in the game.

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>>637569714It's Zelda so it's okay.

>>637583647I'd argue the Battery juice you get from him is a good reward, you get like 2 batteries from him and his bosses are probably the best in the game.But yeah i killed ganon and the gleekoks then turned the game off.Better things to do then waste my time on all this fluff

>>637583808>ganon is literally presented as a humanbut he's a gerudo

>Ganondorf is just evilExcept he isn't. If he was evil he would have just killed Link and Zelda when they found him.>But of course he doesn't do that, then there wouldn't be a game.Exactly. His motivation is to test Link's capabilities. It's the only thing that makes sense if you look at his actions.>But that's stupidYep.

He's literally the Demon King. The whole point is that he started out as a normal human man, but was so consumed by greed that he became a literal demon.His reasons are simple; he's greedy.

>>637583847this. If this were any other game with any other name, no one would even look it's way for how bland and generic and uninspired and shit is.

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>>637583926same thing. The point is that he's a person.

>>637575887I’m complaining because the world building fucking sucks and eventually gets wrecked even more due to fucking shipping

>>637584117>The point is that he's a person.he isnt though. hes a video game characterjust bits and bytes

>>637584021>greedy>wants to destroy the worlddo you hear yourself? How does that work? If he wanted to take all the riches and bitches from the land, then I could understand. But destroying everything literally has nothing to do with greed or wanting things @.@

I don't even understand what TOTK ganon wants, OOT Ganon wanted the kingdom and power to rule undefeated, TP Ganon wanted revenge, WW wanted his kingdom back to rule.TOTK actively wants to plunge the world into darkness because? Even in OOT when it was shallow, it still implied he thought things would be better under him

>>637583704Never have I ever wanted Ganon to fucking destroy Hyrule this much.The people in it are completely boring and retarded.The only moment I felt engaged with anyone in it was when Tulin was happy to see Link and when Zelda becomes a fucking dragon in eternal agony to save the kingdom. Never do I ever feel anything genuinely connecting with people in this Zelda. Hell they fucked up Purah (she was perfect in AoC 2bh) and made her boring too. Not even she could escape the boring.Truly a franchise suffering in "E for Everyone" hell. Get rid of this fucking classification garbage. Kids do not care how much blood, gore, misery and horror there is in it, if anything that will grab their attention. The moment for me was when Gibdos didn't eat my head off. They destroyed a fucking icon there. I've played well over 100 hrs and all I think about it is "why did I play this for over 100 hours?" At least in Persona you get actual characters, actual interesting plot, actual interesting interaction. Sure it ain't open world, but I certainly felt more engaged with that game more than this pile of garbage that has been over polished and rendered void of any soul it had.

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>>637584551>I don't even understand what TOTK ganon wantsHe wants revenge as well. He was imprisoned for 10,000 years. What did he want originally? Power. He was pissed Rauru got to be the king of everything due to some secret stones that he didn't have access to. He was jealous.

>>637584707Eh he just felt generic this time around. I think it's the language he uses, he just leans into being evil too much, i always thought ganon was a guy who thought he was the best to rule, not a world ending asshole

>>637584021>His reasons are simple; he's greedy.But so is the goat dude and Hyrule.Hell Hyrule is literally just genociding moblins now all over the map in TotK. They're beyond just trying to save Hyrule, they're moving into "destroy any competition to Hyrule".Just like real life societies I guess.

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>>637584620absolutely based

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sorry im drunk but i have an opinionpeople gave botw 10/10s across the board upon release but i had some major fucking conniptions about it, one of which relating to the OP was the plotlike good job making a mindless entity the antagonist i might as well be in kansas fighting a tornado for how emotionally invested i amhonestly anything is better and i dont really associate any grief with ganondorf being born to be evil, like go my man cause some mischief

>>637584620Gibdos don’t bite you, you’re thinking of redeads.

>>637584889I feel like I wanted them to lean more into the humanization of monsters. There's a sidequest where Kilton talks about wanting people to learn to love monsters but it ends up being pretty superficial to the effect of "they're cute" or whatever.What I'd really like is give Ganondorf some generals. Bosses that are specific to him instead of ones locked to specific areas. Have them hunt down Link during the duration of the story and have them respawn during blood moons. They can patrol certain regions during the course of the game. Then you humanize them. Add story bits as to them existing and having served Ganon for the past 10000 years. Humanize one of them showing that one is just tired of being brought back over and over from the blood moon. Give more backstory to why they follow Ganon or whatever. Then go a step further and add a monster town. Give some of them the form to communicate and have them go into how miserable it is to die and be brought back over and over.I know a lot of this stuff would never make the cut in a game where the main purpose of enemies is "monster bad". But I think it'd go a long way to expand upon some of the mechanics in this game that feel too "video gamey".

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>pure asshole type of evil that spends 90% of the game dancing on top of a building>still way better than ganondorfhow did he do it

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>>637585307He can cause mischief, but there's no humanisation at all. If they wanted dehumanisation , just go fucking full silent hill or something and make the entire chasm ganon. Now that would be cool.

>>637585307>i might as well be in kansas fighting a tornado for how emotionally invested i amyou're a fun drunk. Have a (you). I'm about to drink some gin myself.

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>>637585497Ironically both the mask and Skull kid have more characterisation. The fact Majora sees killing everyone as a kids game is pretty cruel and Skull kid obviously has tons of developement in that game and actual clever use of continuity behind him unlike ganondorf who actively contradicts Calamity ganon


>>637585307My motivations in both games so far has just been trying to figure out what happened. In BotW it was following Zelda's pictures and getting cutscenes and expanding upon stuff in the DLC.In TotK it's been following around the geoglyphs and getting those cutscenes. The issue in both is the discovery is more interesting than what you're actually discovering. My motivations in both games has never been wanting to beat the big bad final boss.

>>637585402I haven't played it, but I'm pretty sure "Shadow of Mordor" does exactly this, and it's a well-liked game.

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Innately evil characters are always the most fun, like Giygas.

>>637580515He is though

>>637585852>Giygas>Innately evilSecondary.

>>637585779you rang?

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>>637585852giygas isn't evil to his core dumbfuckif you want a villain who's pure evil look at fucking porky

>>637585848Yeah it does something similar but the nemesis system and the orcs you fight aren't really tied into a story outside of a few select ones.That is more a "player generated" story as if you lose to one they remember how you lost or if you attempt to kill one with fire, fail, and they run away then when you see them again they might mention the fire. It's a neat system.However WB are massive fucking faggots and they copyrighted the entire nemesis system.

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>>637585852nothing wrong with innately evil crazy psycho characters like kefka and stuff. But ganondorf is literally portrayed as a person that can have a normal conversation with rauru about kingdoms and stuff. When someone's an actual person like that, then they have to fucking have a reason for what they're doing, else it just makes no sense.On the otherhand, if you're a lunatic from the start (kefka) or some eldrich demon thing (like giygas), then you don't feel like you need a reason in those cases.

>>637585939You weren't even born when I played Mother, shows how little you know.

>>637586094>the embodiment of evil isn't evil but some boy isDrink bleach

>>637585497Skull kid has actual characterization though.


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Given that Ganondorf is the only male born to the Gerudo in 100 years, it makes perfect sense that he has a god complex and onces total power over Hyrule.

>>637583316That goes for 100% of all sidequests in any game ever made, if that's your argument.

>>637583894Literally all games are fluff if you are THAT fucking reductive.

>>637586441>Alien that wants revenge on Earth but feels conflicted about it due to the fact that he was raised by humans who eventually goes completely mad due to his own psychic powersversus>Eric CartmanI believe you can tell who's more evil.

>>637584620>The moment for me was when Gibdos didn't eat my head off. They destroyed a fucking icon there.This stupid nigga doesn't even play Zelda games, lmao. Gibdohs are fucking mummies that beat your shit in, you're thinking of redeads. The game is based off the first 2 games. That's why the enemies change from red to blue when they get stronger. That's why you can freely roam anywhere you have the tools to reach without some story bullshit stopping you or horseshit invisible walls. That's why the game is actually fun instead of a millionth railroaded OoT clone.

>>637586875All the sidequests, shrines, sky islands with nothing on them, depths with nothing but mines, repeated enemies are fluff. Compare TOTK to a game like Furi, Pizza tower or cuphead where it's just pure meat on the bone from start to finish. Hell TOTK's best moments are in the main quests

>>637584960>Hell Hyrule is literally just genociding moblins now all over the map in TotK. They're beyond just trying to save Hyrule, they're moving into "destroy any competition to Hyrule".>stopping murderous monsters that rape and pillage your cities is now "just destroy the competition"Your brain is beyond salvation.

>the hero is good because he is the hero>the villain is bad because he is the villain>the game is just a comfy adventure to gather the whatever the fucks to defeat him, the plot barely exists outside of being a framing device to give a reason why you're doing anythingahhh, now THIS is gaming

>>637585939He literally is. Play Mother some day.

>>637586746If he wanted to rule hyrule, I could understand. But no, he wants to destroy hyrule and everything for literally no reason.

>>637569714Isn't it literally the same guy each time?Like he's not reincarnated the way Link and Zelda are, it's always just Ganondorf, incarnation of DemiseWe don't need to hear his sob story about muh thief genocide again, especially when the Gerudo are doing well in this timeline

>>637570081>implying Persians aren't amazing

>>637587545People can say it's bad, and that's fine. I'm not going to argue that it's good story telling.But there's something I will always love about "gather the 4 (crystals / sages / etc.) and fight the evil boss because he wants to destroy the world".

>>637587593ToTK Ganondorf is a different guy this time. No Triforce backing him up, literally just a Gerudo warlord using a special Macguffin magic stone.

>>637587308>All the sidequests, shrines, sky islands with nothing on themLiterally all of those have meaningful content.>depths with nothing but mines, repeated enemies are fluffNot even slightly close to covering it all.> Furi, Pizza tower or cupheadMeaningless fighting, running, and shooting, no content, just fight run shoot. See, I can pretend be a reductive retard like you. The difference being that I'm only pretending.

>>637586769>all side content has to be shitno, you faggot. A ton of the sidequests in the Trails series are amazing and add tons of characterization/lore development/changes to the world/etc..It's only in shit games like TotK where the sidequests are just pointless fluff that do nothing and are completely uninteresting and uninspired.

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>they’re still seething over ZeldaIt just never ends does it? Get a fucking life dorks. Maybe PLAY some video game, any video game. You might be happy for once

>>637587935>A ton of the sidequests in the Trails series are amazingYou picked the absolute worst example to use if you want to talk about good side quests. Yes they add characterization and world building as they expand upon the existing world which is very well done.Are they good sidequests? Absolutely fucking not. >Oh you didn't happen to know to run all the way back to this one gate to pick up this book that is now randomly accessible? Well fuck you retard>Oh you didn't realize you could actually go two towns back to talk to a random NPC you didn't know has moved? Well fuck you, now you missed out on this sidequestGod I fucking hate Trails sidequests

>>637588180>he doesn't go around the world and talk to literally everyone after any event happensskill issue.

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>>637583185>Mad scientist Purah gets horny for Link's new mecha building powers.

>>637573375Quite literally said the opposite. He doesn't need to have a deep backstory or be a Macbeth analogy, just some personality.You do know the difference, right?

>>637588364>he doesn't go around the world and talk to literally everyone after any event happensI LOVE TRAILS GAMES BUT HOLY SHIT I HATE THEIR SIDEQUESTSI just love the worldbuilding they do but the immersion aspect is difficult when I have to sit with a guide open on my other monitor to ensure I don't miss any important sidequests.

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>>637588492For the record, I relatively agree. Which is why I fucking love Sky 3rd so goddamn much, since it took out all the goddamn NPCs and was streamlined and straightforward.

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>>637585356Are you retarded?You literally burned them in OoT and MM to reveal a redead underneath. That's all been retconned now. >google doesn't even have results for this nowSpooky.Holy shit the controls are quite something now.

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>>637589010>google doesn't even have results for this nowmaybe shoot a fire arrow at google and it'll reveal it

>>637589010Are you? Gibdos don’t always have redeads beneath the bandages, they have stalfos sometimes as well.

>>637585848good point.Why is Zelda suddenly just Lord of the Rings?In MM the Gerudo are literally antagonists you fight and who are completely evil loot seekers and Ganon's not even there.Now they're just desperate amazons seeking Hylian dick to the point of teaching them how to find it. In MM and OoT they just enslaved hylian men for such purposes... which is probably lewder 2bh.

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>>637573839This. "le tragic backstory" and "complicated circumstances" bullshit is being forced because of moral relativism and it needs to did. I think this horseshit hit its peak when they made a cruelle de vil (whose name was originally a corruption of 'cruel devil') an origin story where her mother is literally killed by yes.. fucking dalmatian puppies... absolute retardation

Forget this nonsense, I just want to know why Gibdos became insects now.

>>637589175If only Google were that logically, instead they rank pages on a bullshit arbitrary basis to appeal to their sponsors to the point where malware has literally stolen the first result on some searches (because they paid google to put it there as the first result).

>>637589474Zelda is just fantasy stuff with a few twists.>Hylians are humans, though actual humans still exist in Zelda's lore>Sheikah are High Men>Koroks are Fairies with a bit of Kodama in them, used to be Lost Boys as the Kokiri>Gorons are Dwarfs>Zora are Mermen/Elves>Gerudo are Amazons>Bokoblins, Moblins, etc are Orcs and Goblins>Lizalfos are KoboldsIs there any fantasy stuff Zelda hasn't touched yet?

>>637589549I don't mind them being like insects, because they're still implied to be undead things and potentially the dead of the Gerudo... they're just insectoid for some reason.What I do mind is that they no longer scare me because they don't eat my brains. What were they thinking?They did this in TP, but got away with it calling them "knights". It's purely for ratings systems because in the 90s it was still teething like fuck. (Hell it was still teething by WW)The parental ratings system is killing video games oriented for kids. Soon kids won't play video games because they're not allowed to play the fun ones. Luckily I came from a time when no one gave a shit about the system, not even parents. Those days are clearly over though and it's severely affecting products now.I think it's killed Zelda and TotK was a desperate attempt to not let that happen. But clearly the raters got their way in the end and I feel like there's frustration behind the Gibdo design.. like it's not representing what they really wanted to do with it. That pisses me off.They're just going to have to spin off Zelda again, this time for more mature audiences because these kids games are no longer as fun as they were 25 years ago because child content is no longer allowed to be fun. OoT had literal torture rooms full of gore in it. TotK works around protocols with gloom, but it doesn't feel the same. It feels like a pathetic workaround.

>>637589549I want to know why Darknuts aren’t in the fucking game holy shit Aonuma

>>637587308>FuriWorst example. Half the game is forced slow walking while listening to some monologue wirh cool music in the back.

>>637590331>Luckily I came from a time when no one gave a shit about the system, not even parents. Those days are clearly over though and it's severely affecting products now.You act like parents are not buying their kid the latest call of duty

>>637589952>Zelda is just fantasy stuff with a few twists.No it's not, it's an adventure horror game (well it's horror now, but in 1998 it was just an adventure game because people weren't pussies back then and society wasn't a dystopian nightmare trying to make everything safe... for ironically machiavellian purposes).

>>637570832anything from FROM games.

>>637590363This is the biggest offense. Barely any new enemies and no real humanoid ones besides wall crawling moblins. Darknuts could have fit perfect instead of phantom ganons being the only weapon wielders

This is the best example of how fucking lazy nintendo is at writing now. In LTTP they gave lip service to Ganon having started as some sort of dark magic thief, and then in ocarina of time this is significantly expanded on, giving him a whole tribe that he came from and establishing him as an extra big dickhead because despite being some kind of prophesied hero of his people, he fucked them over and abandoned them in pursuit of individual power and glory. Then there are two different sequels to ocarina of time which explore alternate futures after the game, one in which Ganondorf returns and wins and the world is destroyed, and one in which he is prevented from even beginning his plans and banished into hell. In the former case, in the wind waker timeline, he mellows out, shifting his anger away from the people of hyrule and onto the gods who he believes (not even necessarily incorrectly) punished all of mankind out of disapproval of his actions. He still wants to rule the land, but his actions are much more subdued. He sends out his minions to kidnap people who might be descended from the Zelda he knew, but doesn't actually wish them harm, and he's perfectly understanding and sympathetic of Link for coming after him to try to save his sister and later Tetra. In fact I'm not even sure it's confirmed that Ganondorf killed ANYONE since the world flooded. I guess the sages of wind and earth, but it's implied that that happened a looong time ago, probably during his conquest of Hyrule that triggered the flood. He wasn't even going to harm link or zelda until Hyrule was doomed.And then in the twilight princess timeline, we get a completely different ganondorf. Not ambitious, not remorseful, just pure fucking spite. He was plunged into a hellish quasi-existence in punishment for a crime he didn't even get to do, so now he's going to subject the whole world to that same hell, because fuck the sages, fuck the twili, fuck Hyrule, and fuck you.

>>637590536And then we get TOTK Ganondorf. He's just back, somehow, despite having been killed over and over again for 10 millennia and seemingly utterly destroyed in the direct prequel to this game. And now he's just back! How? What does he want? Has his experiences which supposedly drove him to jibbering madness affected him at all? TOTK doesn't know or care, and assumes you don't either. It's lazy, fucking lame.

>>637590636Where did the divine beasts go? Where did the shrines go? Why doesn't half of hyrule recognize me? What the fuck even was Calamity ganon? Where are all the guardians?

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>>637590536>>637590636>>637590821literally this.

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>>637590821>Where did the shrines go?Wasn't this covered in BotW? I thought they just went back into the ground.>Where are all the guardians?This is my main question. TotK seems to be like ~5 years after BotW and somehow every single ruin involving a Guardian is gone. There are absolute ZERO remnants of the guardians? How

>>637590363I get the feeling that if Aonuma had full control from the start, they'd be there and TotK would be more fleshed in the dark. I think Miyamoto started pushing more for the sky islands shit originally before he was dragged from development with the mario movie stuff or something. I feel that Miyamoto wanted more general exploration shit, while Aonuma (rightly) wanted more labrynthian darkness and mystique. That's my theory (I have no evidence :^) )The depths feels somewhat rushed in the way it's implemented. It's good though, it's by far the best aspect of the game for me, exploring the looming chasm.... but it is fairly empty and lacking in a larger variety of monsters.I personally think that the lack of variety was a genuine crackdown on bugs in the game for "polish" and quality protocol reasons... that needs to stop now because it's killing their games. You can tell the devs were paranoid about bugs in this game after the speedrunning explosion around the late 2010s that saw those explode in relevance to their product.There was also a genuine half attempt to make a plot with this game too... but it's all with these "memories" again and I hate that shit. It detaches you from engaging with the story as it is happening with link in it.

>>637591290The lack of content in the depths is not polish, it's lack of attention, it was never meant to be a focus. The height map is just the overworld but flipped. It was probably a very late addition, they might have even initially intended it to be procedurally populated.

>>637591290>I personally think that the lack of variety was a genuine crackdown on bugs in the game for "polish" and quality protocol reasons... that needs to stop nowHoly shit what a fucking braindead take. If anything it's refreshing playing a game that doesn't crash every 2 hours or have incredible amounts of jank. AAA games are dying now exactly because they are cutting cost by removing QA from their entire development cycle. Games release complete broken and people still buy up all that shit on release.

>>637587256Not them but Gibdos aren’t even undead mummies anymore, they’re weird bug people

>>637591587I think a little jank would be preferable to TOTK only having like 5 unique enemies over BOTW


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>>637591773I'd rather have 5 polished enemies than have a variety of 30 enemies that are all janky as shit to fight. Now if you want to argue about the polish of the scarce amount of enemies in TotK then that's another story and not what I'm getting at. I'm just saying in general.

>>637591905Was this actually in the game?

>>637590536You know which game had the best dialogue and engagement with characters in the series?Skyward Sword.I hate SS gameplay and world/plot wise, but SS Zelda was probably the most engaging Zelda in a Zelda game, Groose was the best rival/sidekick and Ghirahim one of the most interesting villains. All the sky city characters felt engaged with the player because you did missions that properly shaped their character and what not. SS is proof they can write when they get it right. But the writing and plot elsewhere there was... eh.And the levels were the worst in the series by far. TotK shits all over that (and BotW) level designs and world design because it's a different bag altogether in that department.But with writing and plot, MM was a 10/10 piece of writing and plot... there's no competition there. OoT is ok, but it get's away with more because it feels like it has more gameplay substance with more weapons and more temples. MM is just perfect plotwise though.No one ever talks about the Oracles though and that annoys me because Veran was the best villain in the series.

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>>637591998Too bad Demise and Fi ruined the zelda franchise forever

>>637570832Basically any of the villains from Inuyasha. Take your pick.

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>>637591994Yes he kek's at zelda after he kills the queen, it's pretty funny

The reality is that "he is not evil, just misunderstood" is as bad, if even worse in videogames, because it always boil down to this>MC is too retarded to realize this, and just kills the villain anyway>MC realizes this, but he is too much of an autistic ape to give a compelling argument or aproach in a non-threatening manner in order to have a non-aggressive altercation with the antagonist>they talk and understand each other, but the villain just dies in a retarded way, like holding off enemies or staying on a structure that is collapsingMight as well just make them evil anyway, if the format of THE ENDING can't change in the hands of hack writtersIf the villain have a reason, then let me tackle it and not kill him. If I can't, then fuck it, make him an asshole that I will have pleasure killing. >y-y-you don't need to kill him, just drop the controller!Sure, and give my money back while at it, plus a compensation for the time wasted.

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>>637591548They should have made the entire game a giant labyrinth like the depths. It had enough room to do all your overworld shenanigans while forcing you to work out how to manuever and conquer the darkness. Conquering the darkness itself could have been a very interesting theme... but it feels just like an attachment.Ironically, OoT had that theme with the temples and you could see everything in them. The darkness in TotK still only feels like literal darkness like a cave.. not figurative darkness.Though that said, the corner of the map with the Gerudo Graveyard did hint at what it could have turned into. I was exploring that place hard because I thought things were about to become pure hell... was a bit disappointed.But hey, that's waaaaay more interesting that anything in BotW... which is just a camping/hiking simulator.

>>637569714it's unironically refreshing to see Ganondorf be evil instead of having a sad backstory or the stupid shit in skyward sword

>>637592626It's a video game problem of requiring the player to have an objective and being able to resolve it into a conclusion.At the end of the day this is a problem that can't be solved unless players of games are okay with a conclusion that is outside the norm. Imagine playing through a game, fighting a boss multiple times, only for the conclusion for you to be resolving the issues with the final villain and ending the game with complete resolution.It would probably be critically panned. Especially in the current climate where sympathizing with villains is seen as such a big "no-no" to a lot of people. That and most big franchises would never take such a risk to have a game deviate from the norm. Could you imagine a reality where Link and Ganon team up and Zelda is actually the villain? I think it'd be a neat way to subvert your expectations if done well but Nintendo would never allow for it.

>>637592110>Demise What were they thinking?>FiWay to make Navi more annoying than ever before.How did they fuck up that after doing so well with Midna, who felt like a true companion, or Zelda in Spirit Tracks?We're never getting another Midna tier companion again. She was the best thing about TP.

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>>637593108Sympathizing with villains is not considered a no-no you out of touch fucker

>>637591998Zelda being my waifu in SS was my favourite part desu.

Open world killed the story and soul if the series, which was bolstered by it’s linear adventure gameplay. Pour one out.

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>>637593015>or the stupid shit in skyward sword...are you high? Skyward sword ganon (demise) is LITERALLY the personification of evil, with no backstory or anything else to him.

>>637569714my mom's WC3 blademaster

>>637592748I think thematically it would've made more sense having Link fall into the Depths at the start and have Zelda teleport back in time right as it happened.Have the tutorial start you in the Depths that you navigate around like a savage until finally ascending above ground and seeing how much has changed. Then eventually leading into the sky, etc.

>>637569714>go back in time 30 gazillion years>ganondorf is still there and also evilhuh... maybe this guy is just a dick?

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>>637569714>Retard doesn't know the story of the franchise.>Blames the 20th game for it.Go be a fucking imbecile elsewhere.

>>637593441being cursed to always be the personification of evil is lame as fuckGanondorf being a normal guy that just fucked everyone's shit so fucking hard is so much cooler

Where is this meme coming from that Ganon was ever anything but generically evil.No dont bring up WW just because he sobbed about losing the Hyrule he wanted to conquer doesnt make him complex

>>637593402people lose their shit over this one line and herald WW ganon as the best for it. I mean, it's good, sure. But it doesn't automatically make him deep and amazing and the best character fucking ever. Besides this one line, he has no discernable characterization or motivation (besides the crazy lunatic laugh when he lost, which was kino).

>>637570347Oh look at this snoy faggot, I guess you really enjoyed The Last of Us Dyke Edition.

>>637593309I don't personally believe it to be the case, it's just the feeling I get. You would never be able to have a revisionism game where you sympathize with Nazis as an example.

>>637581267Is it just me or does ganondorf stand 'off'?

>>637570832I like how Ganon tries to rip off his minion, Veran, by possessing Zelda as his tool of chaos. At least she was sexier and smarter about it... sort of.

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>>637593664You have to understand it's coming from a place where Zelda fans have played a franchise with absolute dogshit characterization for decades. Having a few voiced lines is like the pinnacle of story for them.

>>637593694Well the feeling you get is stupid as hell since the trend right now is to make villains have redeeming qualities people can sympathize with

>>637593664Except the fact that its OoT Ganondorf who needed no backstory if you played the fucking games. Ganondorfs alternates self in Twilight Princess too being this same guy was tragic as well. You felt his presence. Totk was just DUDE IM HECKIN SICK AND TWISTED.

>>637593827List an example of a game released in the last 5 years where you befriend a villain and they become your ally.

>>637569714So the interspecies-sex furry king literally named "Rawr" you're totally fine with but Ganon is where you draw the line in ToTK? Seriously?

>>637593731They already had Ganondorf possess Zelda in TP.

>>637593943final fantasy 14 desu

>>637593701it's supposed to be like that. He was walking towards link as he was dying, and then froze mid-walk.

>>637593701Yeah I think in this shot theyre actually just standing over a 2d image and his rotation is slightly weird

>>637593108Witcher 2 have this, and is a great game. You can choose not only to not kill Letho, but to avoid a fight completely. In fact, you can just share a cup with him, and say good bye>Could you imagine a reality where Link and Ganon team up and Zelda is actually the villain?That's just changing blue to red.Legend of Zelda solves this by making Ganondorf inherently evil without question, so there's no problem. The problem is, when you try to make you villain relatable, try to make his thought process rational, and in the end you are still stuck on the same "you have to kill him" crap in the ending. In fact, I would say this is even worse than having no final battle, fights like Solidus Snake in MGS2 left a SOUR TASTE in my mouth. In the end I had to kill the only person in that dumpsterfire that I thought was on the right

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>>637594059>lists a game released 13 years agoTruly the pinnacle of retardation.

>>637569714t. Wanted to write his gay fanfiction where Ganondorf is the misunderstood tragic antihero from the mural

>>637593664People always use the line on top of the Tower when his speech before fighting Puppet Ganon goes way harder.

>>637593731What the fuck was even in it for her? She's a colossal retard, at least his other minions have motivations, Aganhim helped him for power, Zant got to be the King of Twilight, Cia wanted sex with Link, even the Yiga retards are a suicide doomsday cult who just want the world to end, Veran is just some idiot who helped him just because.

>>637594147talking about the recent expansions, retard-kun

>>637593961From memory she get's possessed in ALttP? Or am I misremembering?She gets possessed a lot.Ganon sure loves possessing women... hmmm.Maybe he really really wants to fuck link or something?

>>637594116>That's just changing blue to red.That's fair, it wasn't the best example. What I was moreso getting at is I think it's silly for people to expect well written villains in a Zelda game where it's one of the tried and true safe examples of narrative story telling that Nintendo has stuck with for years. It has always been "bad guy bad, hero save world / girl" every single time.

>>637593954Isn't it implied all Hylians descend from Zonai? Rauru just looks more like the original Zonai because he's magic and shit.

>>637593664The line is so great because this character is the same Ganondorf as Ocarina. We already know all about him, and we know with this line that he was doing it because the Gerudo people were fucked over by everyone else for centuries and he coveted the life the rest of Hyrule led as the lone male leader of a now extinct race of people. The fact that he sparred with OG Link who was chosen by gods and now some bumpkin is facing him is kino as well.

>>637593943Literally every JRPG released in the last 5 years

>>637593954>the interspecies-sex furry king literally named "Rawr"gave me a kek. Have a (you)

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>>637593108>Could you imagine a reality where Link and Ganon team up and Zelda is actually the villain?Wasn't Hilda this? Granted, Link didn't team up with Ganon (Mostly because Ganon was just a mindless entity powering up Yuga), but Hilda was the overarching villain of ALBW.


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>>637594683Yeah but she repented

>>637593187>>Demise>What were they thinking?It was an easy way of having Ganon before Ganondorf was canonically born.


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>>637594215I don't want him to have been bullyed in highschool or some shit like that. He just has to have literally any reason for what he's doing. If he wanted to rule the kingdom instead of Rauru, then I would understand. But he literally just wants to destroy everything for no reason.

>>637594313>What the fuck was even in it for her?I don't know... now that I think about it that plot made no sense at all and you kinda just go with it. Like it's complete nonsense and it just werks.Why was she building a fucking tower? kekShe was literally possessing a goddess that could manifest whatever the fuck she could in space-time or something... why build a fucking dark tower that does pretty much fucking nothing?You know what, I criticised TotK too much on it's plot, because it actually makes sense when compared to fucking Oracle of Ages.But it did make me learn one thing as a child. Dark evil bitches are super hot, even if they're just possessed.

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>>637594885Have him and Rauru be friends originally as competing rulers and have Ganon be spurned when they find the first secret stone that Rauru betrays him and takes it or somethingsimple as

>>637593664>Besides this one line, he has no discernable characterization or motivationSure he does. He's deeply nostalgic, to the point where he seems to almost see Link and Zelda as comrades rather than enemies. He's much more patient and less violent than he was in OoT, and his gripes seem to be halfway justified. It's not really a redemption, but it is at least considerably more grey, like he really was on a path to becoming a better person, but he was none the less incompatible with the continuation and development of the people of the new world. He's a ghost who refuses to let go, refuses to accept the consequences of his actions, wants to defy fate and undo the destruction that in another context he might have caused intentionally. It's interesting and nuanced.


>>637594810Good bait, Hyrule Warriors characters were overdesigned as shit

>>637595062this is bait

>>637593187>How did they fuck up that after doing so well with Midna, who felt like a true companion, or Zelda in Spirit Tracks?Because they decided to go for aesthetic instead of legitimate storytelling, it's the reason most of SS feels so wonky in general, the game is a massive clusterfuck hodgepodge of fantasy shit with little thematic cohesion, TP is the complete opposite, the design is very restrained, everything is mundane and grey, but the actual world-building and narrative were at their best, not only was Midna's story a decent departure from the usual generic hero saves princess story, but TP was the one time in the franchise in which the world felt lived-in and interconnected with shit happening throughout the story that directly affects the lives of NPCs.

>>637595154Prime Bait

>>637594663you go back, newfag zoomer nigger

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>>637595062Unlike Age of Calamity, because Astor was bretty gud. I like his super edge lord traits.It's just a pity the game was pretty much the same shit over and over again mashing the same button and with a plot/setting that was just shit.I also liked Purah and Impa in that game too. I'm sad spunky goth Purah got retconned.

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>>637594709literally the worst fucking design for a character in a game I've played. I fucking hated it so goddamn much. The only good thing about it is, at the end of XC2, when he gets a glow-up, it looks that much better because what he was wearing before was so absolutely shit.

>>637595235bad bait

>>637594810based>>637595062kys. Hyrule warrior designs are absolute fucking kino god-tier. Their stories are great too.

>>637569714He wants to be the next King of Hyrule. Are you retarded or a 2010 zoomer?

>>637594987literally something like this would've been a zillion times better.

>>637580984Just because you don't know or understand their motivation doesn't mean they don't have themNeither the character in universe nor the viewer in real life needs to understand everything that happens in the story, it's good to have some things that are arcane and unknowablePersonally I find the Dwemer from Elder Scrolls one of the most interesting mysteries in gaming; I'd love to know more but ultimately I hope they never tell us, then the mystique is gone forever

>>637595051>Sure he does. He's deeply nostalgic, to the point where he seems to almost see Link and Zelda as comrades rather than enemiesnice fanfic

Somehow Ganondorf has returned...

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>>637569714It's an archetype. Some people are just evil. Gilles de Rais couldn't give any good reasoning for why he raped and killed children other than he was too pampered as a child. Watch the original Sleeping Beauty and then the recent movies Maleficent. Sometimes the basics are way better than trying to reinvent the wheel with complicated characters.

>>637569714>NOOOO MUH NUANCED CHARACTERfuck off some niggas just wanna be evil

>>637569714Real life villains also do evil just because they want to

>>637594116>The problem is, when you try to make you villain relatable, try to make his thought process rational, and in the end you are still stuck on the same "you have to kill him" crap in the ending. In fact, I would say this is even worse than having no final battle, fights like Solidus Snake in MGS2 left a SOUR TASTE in my mouth. In the end I had to kill the only person in that dumpsterfire that I thought was on the rightI think this can be done right but the writer needs to know the difference between UNDERSTANDABLE and SYMPATHETIC, which precious few of them do.Take Egil, Jin and N from Xenoblade as an example.Egil does really fucked up shit but he has a specific reason for it, it may not have worked out in the end due to unforeseeen circumstances but there was a logical thought process behind it, Egil is a villain you can UNDERSTAND, but that doesn't make him likeable in the slightest, he's still a massive cunt.Then there's Jin on the other side of the spectrum, the game tries so hard to make him SYMPATHETIC with his annoying sobstory, but it falls flat because nothing he's doing makes sense in relation to that and instead of taking the fight directly to those who wronged him he just goes full retard and decides it's best to terrorize random innocents.N is somewhere in between, his story deffo has shades of sympathetic, he had a crap time trying to beat Z and seeing his wife die again and again until he gave up and decided it was best to just be selfish, but after that he's under no illusion that he's doing the right thing, in fact he actively revels in his evil ways and has no issue admitting that he'd rather everyone suffers for eternity, including M, than let go of her, and anything he does to help others, be them Moebius or the heroes, he does entirely for self-serving purposes.

>>637595167>but the actual world-building and narrative were at their bestI disagree, Ganon shouldn't have been in that game and made no sense being in it. Me and my mate (why I was playing with my mate at the time for a single player game is beyond me) were playing this in 2008 or something and were spoiled by a walkthrough that he was in it... we were both confused why he was in it at the end of the game. Zant was a missed opportunity. They made him far too clowny. I don't mind insane, but clowny villains in something like TP is just retarded when you have those twili monsters everywhere. Those were another missed opportunity because they looked sick, but were sort of toned down with the horror of their movements I feel. They could have been like redeads more with gruesome attacks... but nu-nintendo doesn't do biting anymore it seems, or grabbing (though they had like-likes in TotK so that's just confusing me even more).

>>637595702He keeps Zelda safe and comfortable until Link shows up, and then tries to win him over by hyping him up as deserving of his titles and by appealing to his desire to restore harm, telling Link that he was trying to defy a crime committed by the goddesses, but still not really holding it against Link when he draws his sword regardless. When Link gets to the top of the tower. Ganondorf incapacitates him, but doesn't even try to actually harm him, instead simply drawing out the triforce in order to make a wish which he considers to be beneficial for everyone. Did you even play the game?

>>637595693>Just because you don't know or understand their motivation doesn't mean they don't have themYou're right, things should just happen in games with no reason whatsoever. Hudson should murder his daughter out of nowhere, and nothing else should be said about it. Paya should burn kakariko, and nothing should be said about it.Having mysteries is fine. I like the Dwemer too, and I like the zonai. But the entire fucking plot of your game can't just make no sense and have zero provided reason for it happening.

>>637596019Stalin for example was way more evil than Hitler. He didn't even care for "his own people", because he was just a Commie who would have replaced them several times over for newcomers. All he wanted was ultimate power at any cost.

>>637595702it's been so long since I've played it, I've literally forgotten basically all of his dialogue @.@.

>>637569714evil is just fun user. have you ever been evil? it touches something primal inside you and you want more, it's just exciting and addicting.

>>637593954>So the interspecies-sex furry king literally named "Rawr" you're totally fine with but Ganon is where you draw the line in ToTK? Seriously?Oh god he really is just Furry bait. Why did we never see this before?He was furbait all along.MIYAMOTO NO.

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>>637596223 was meant as a reply to >>637596119

>>637595693>Personally I find the Dwemer from Elder Scrolls one of the most interesting mysteries in gamingI also think they're the most interesting part of ES lore because of the horror embedded in their history. How they basically mindraped the entire snow elf race into basically goblin slaves. The future of white people btw.


>>637596181I like how 4chan commieshits went from:>no Stalin isn't as evil as Hitler, he was doing the right thing!to now:>no Stalin was WAAAY more badass and evil than HitlerWe've really changed as a community of shit and piss. Even the shills are getting confused now on how to market and preach their ideological gods.

>>637592120Based Inuyasha poster

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>>637594473Okay when you put it that way that is pretty cool. WW was a favorite of mine years ago but I didn't realize it was the same ganon as OoT

>>637596734He's clearly a villain in this portrayal... but that's why people are kinda sighing about him here.It needs way more complexity or something. Some details to make it feel more deserved as a badge.Otherwise, you do what I do and just associate the loose figurative aspects of the plot and setting and go "oh this plot is literally just saying 'Hyrule good, Ganon bad' in the most dumb way" rather than giving us more of a reason for it other than he spawns a fuck of tonne of monsters or causes mere chaos. Then you see Hyrule do nothing but twiddle it's thumbs at it's own social problems and just purges Moblins like a mob of unruly Gauls or something... there's something wrong with this picture. And it just feels like missed self critique with the concept of Hyrule itself. The game doesn't ever question Hyrule.And that makes no sense since every game up until TP mentioned, off hand, that there was a dark side to Hyrule that lurked beneath. Especially given we literally go underneath Hyrule here... to find there's nothing really... just more baddies. No conspiracies. No corruption within Hyrule that manifested within itself. No tyranny. No secret state cults involving the sacrifice and torture of citizens like what was hinted with the Sheikah with OoT. :^)No, Ganon's just evil this time... there's no other reasons.He's not looking back at the abyss that is Hyrule.I dunno...Hyrule's lost it's rock and roll or something.

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Maybe... just maybe.We'll get a Princess Zelda with a touch of darkness like Edelgard one day.Hilda doesn't count, she's not Zelda.

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>>637581267fifteen year old me was so fucking psyched that ganondorf was in this game, even more so when it was revealed that he was behind everything and zant was a red herring.

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>>63759876013 year old me was just confused and annoyed that they made Zant a mere pawn and a clown. Even Demises' twinkslave Ghirahim seemed to have more dignity.

>>637594709What’s funny to me is that adult Rex had a huge amount of people 180 on him simply due to design. He does the same shit he does in XC2 but is immediately more likable due to a better VA and a himbo design.

>>637581026>but he lacks the presence that ganondorf in OoT, WW, and arguably BotW had>OoT, WWno he has way more presence... but not enough depth to why he's so grand and a major hassle. Only problem is that you need the memories to understand that.>BotWCalamity ganon has as much presence in the game as Majora... but again it's nothing but presence, whereas Majora is like an evil companion by the end of the game to you (or like a friend you must put an end to, who's playing a game with you).

>>637583592Gerudo ronin is top design imoIt's a lovely callback to Wind Waker's katanas and kimono design for him too

>>637598557Never ever going to happen. Nintendo would never allow this.They would also never allow Link to be some type of dark hero either.

>>637579897>You should not have every villain be sympatheticIt's more that the protagonistic force needs some level of cartharsis. If you go too far with that though.. you get Dark Souls where you really just want to snuff the fire, no matter how tempting femboy hooters is.

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>>637594810? hyrule warriors' design is almost 1-to-1 a recolor of twilight princess's design but with demise's hair (this is a good thing)

>>637569714He is descended from Groose

>>637598557>>637599613We got exactly the thing you're describingIt suckedSame for Ravio as the Lorulean Link

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>>637599939Doesn't count, not Zelda

>>637587384He's also probably one of those that think fantasy orcs are an allegory for minorities.

>>637599430oot ganondorf has such a strong presence its insane if you think otherwise

>>637599613>They would also never allow Link to be some type of dark hero either.I thought TP half tried that.MM certainly did, by really guilting you with the idea of Fierce Diety. The might and fury of the law.I am baffled how good MM was with ideas like this. How they managed to encapsulate so much with such simple ideas in the form of a child's game or friendship. How was that a nintendo game? It's far too interesting and full of depth as ideas go.BotW and TotK seem to be scratching at something with regards to the theme of discovery and the exploration of the reality of the world around you (with TotK discovering the darkness underneath the initial premise of BotW)... but that's it.MM goes way further with philosophical cartharsis on it's own premise as a series. The idea of evil and wait creates it. For most of MM the Giants are trying to tell you that Skull Kid really is a good Kid. They're somewhat also associating that with Majora but it's not explicit. Majora is like Higurashi btw. You know ... the whole abusing of someone then regretting and apologising because they've lost their nut. They've lost control. The whole:>gomenasai gomenasai gomenasai aspect.You don't get any of that in TotK. The evil guys are just evil and that's it. The underground is a cold empty place full of evil. Which is bollocks. The law in our world is arguably more evil than the cartels nowadays... if you can differentiate.

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>>637599939>It suckedBut Hilda was great.Troubled goth Zelda is clearly best Zelda. I barely felt anything for the real Zelda in that game.

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>>637600556>How was that a nintendo game?It had absolutely no time to go through the nintendo machine, it wouldn't happen ever again, it's pure unfiltered creativityThey still have it, they choose not to. Look at the concept art for BOTW

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>>637600556I know it would've been outside the realm of resources they wanted to spend, but I would've loved if the depths function more as an "inverse world" where maybe the monsters go after dying before a blood moon and they have little towns you can talk to them.

>>637600253He shows up a few times, but Ganon is literally all the Gloom in TotK.>>637600747Not mutually exclusive. She's not a god, she's a mere hylian and she makes that pretty obvious. Which is great. Her response is a naive desperate human response.Which... happened in TotK with Zelda turning into a fucking Dragon for eternity as a sacrifice... I actually felt something for her for the first time in either game and it actually fucking stung like hell.Characters are at their best when they make mistakes. When they have flaws. Zelda was stupidly perfect in BotW and most of TotK up until that moment because it was a stupid... but desperate decision that made her feel like an actual human being for once.

>>637601092>but I would've loved if the depths function more as an "inverse world" where maybe the monsters go after dying before a blood moon and they have little towns you can talk to them.It would have been a good callback to MM ay. But the switch probably can't do that... you're talking lots of memory for that.

>>637598760me too. I'll never understand why so many faggots like >>637599135 hate how ganon came out. It was fucking great, and Zant being a fucking lunatic with great music in the background was also great. Damn, I love tp so fucking much.

>>637569714That's realisticReal evil exists and some people are just vile and despicable for no reason and they don't deserve sympathy.

>>637570832your move, creep

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>>637583647Your first mistake was wanting a cool reward and not enjoying that questline because of the vehicle boss fights

>>637569714Go play last of us 2 and horizon zero dawn then faggot

>>637599261>is immediately more likable due to a better VA and a himbo design.yes, and I'm not sorry for feeling like this. But memes aside, adult rex is actually much different than OG rex, he's hardly the same at all. The positive attitude is mostly the same, but adult Rex is much more knowledgable and competent and more of a dad/mentor/protector personality.

>>637581267to this day, i still haven't seen another villain die standing up

>>637601276I didn't mind it... I just thought it would have been better if they just focused on Zant rather than Ganon.Kinda like how I thought Demise could have been better as a macguffin rather than the actual final boss, developing Ghirahim more.Especially the sexual tension side... because Ghirahim is clearly a seedy faggy motherfucker. Nintendo really took a risk there 2bh. They kept the lore on him to a minimum for a reason to keep you thinking about what his relationship to demise really was... it certainly felt real fucking homo to most people.

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>>637599930Now THIS is a zelda lore theory I can get behind. kek

>>637601097>decision rendered pointless because "lol it's not permanent at all, jk"

>>637569714So is totk Ganon the same Ganon from Oot and TP

>>637601617anon...I think you might be a little more gay than your average person desu...

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>>637601864different continuity

>>637602013yeah, I'm thinking botw might just be a different continuity at this point desu.

>>637601864Soft reboot. So the answer is Yes but not on any meaningful level. He may as well be a new ganon

>>637602013Where do BotW and TotK even fit? The more time passes, the more the Hyrule Historia gets outdated af.

>>637601864he's the same ganon in the same way that ben affleck and pattinson are batman

>>637601304Those people are pure lunatics and they usually don't even get to the point of shooting up a local walmart. Many of those are literally retarded or mentally incapacitated.Psychopaths, on the other hand, are a totally different can of worms and they're influenced more by their society than people think. They generally just see into the abyss more. Though there are blind psychopaths who don't even see that shit and just like control in a manner irrelevant of context.Regardless, most of these sorts don't choose blood for the blood god unless they've had enough of something that's been fucking with them. That changes when you manifest the character to represent something figuratively. If Ganon was "just evil" from the start it would be ok - a bit like Majora - but he already had some depth and lore with potential antagonism from Hyrule. That's even implied somewhat in TotK... but barely. I guess they tried to make him less reactive and more proactive this time. The perturber, not the perturbed.

>>637601978Shut up I am forcing this head canon down Holla Forums's throat until it believes it.I'd fuck Ghirahim.No homo.

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>>637602181they dont fit thats what different continuity means

>koko clearly does not like the Hylian KKK chapterWhy has no one mentioned how "odd" this armour looks?

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>>637602181BOTW and TOTK are so far in the future that every other zelda game is too far removed to be related. Thats the offical answer, its a soft reboot, everything may or may not be canon is just another way of saying "we don't want to deal with the fans so sure its all canon"

>>637602684Yeah, that's what scares me. The whole thing is one of the laziest reboots I've seen plotwise. It's just dull.Why can't they just do spinoffs? Spinoffs are fine. Keep your BotW shit in one lane and go full Silent Hill in another. People would buy the fuck out of it.

>>637572804Is this guy a tranny now?

>>637602910It's only a total reboot if you ignore the dialogue referencing Ocarina of Time and one or two other games, most especially from Mipha and her diary and from Zelda's knighting ceremony. Nevermind Hylia being around in a tangible form (goddess statues) and Ganondorf's design as the Demon King referencing Demise.

>>637603037if you weren't gonna watch him either way, who cares

>>637583441>i hate memeswhat led you upon such a bitter path in life?

>>637603037He's a retarded sideshow, the wig is optional.

>>637572804I still can't believe Jim fucking trooned out.

>>637572804I'd go further, existence and everything is evil.

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>>637572804Sir this is a Zelda thread, complaining about Jim Sterling (who you hated before he trooned out) makes me think you're a whiny wank-stain who needs to go back

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>>637603074Or the fact that the original 3 goddesses are in the names of the 3 elemental dragons, Din (Dinraal), Nayru(Naydra) and Farore (Farosh)


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>>637569714>gon get me sum o that link bussy

>>637603485>>637603625>>637603703ganondorf rapid-firing spanish at me will never not be funnyIt's so funny that I had a terminalmontage video favourited a decade ago and only just found his channel a few months ago

>>637603510The iconography of the golden goddesses does still exist too, it's on the OLED Switch dock and iirc it shows up once or twice in-game. Fun fact though is that the logo is the same one from the Ocarina of Time 3DS and they just lifted it.

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>>637569714>he plays zelda games expecting a good plotit's about atmosphere and waifus user.

>>637602682I'm sure some subhuman imbecile has cried about it by now. Maybe you. Be the change you want to see.

>>6376026824chan is the main place making the Klansman association because of course it is

>>637603127Never watched his vids, just remembered his costume. I never got troon vibes from him. Guess anyone could be a latent tranny.

>>637603971Most of terminalmontage is pretty ...eh. But I like the Zelda vids. They're comfy.

The zonai are the villians, they're literally the interlopers.

>>637604208I kinda want to cry about it just to annoy anons.>can't colour them white>can't burn koroks at the stake in a white kkk suitShit game.

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>>637605002this desu.

>>637604957you might be on to something

>>637604957They're literal physical alien invaders...the interlopers are vaguely metaphysical and more like reptilians. I used to think they were Ganon possessing them but now I am thinking it's more likely the other way around.Of course, this is never elaborated in TotK so I never made that logical connection to this plot until you mentioned it just now.The interlopers were such a good idea and they're never mentioned since TP... weird.Especially given how Majora is a thing that almost seems mechanical and matrix like as a deity of sorts... could be attached to that idea. It's weird how the Zonai are robotic/circuit obsessed with their art. If they aren't related to the interlopers then the interlopers just becomes scarier that Majora.

>>637569714>lazy mirrored designClassic Nutendo.

>>637602119>>637602260You dont seem to understand. Yes ganon reincarnates but OoT ganon has been cheating. Classic, TP and WW ganon are all OoT ganon that is made immortal through the triforce of power. He does this so he doesnt mentally reset like link and zelda and because he had a massive head start being born king of the Gerudos.I remember the Gerudos talking about how they dont appoint their males king anymore but havent been able to not do that for tens of thousands of years because ganon has been alive for that long

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>>637605568Actually mirrors are common metaphor in Zelda.I thought that was why the depths was inverting the above ground world.You see, TotK does little throwbacks like this that work and are great.But then you think about your conversations with people in the fort market and there's just very little to engage with them.I wanted to see why Josha has such a cheeky a sinister cheeky smile all the time. Instead she's just a smart kid that smiles.You'd think those relics would force her to see far too much into the abyss to not stain her pure innocent mind.Or maybe that's why she smiles...Maybe she's rotting within and laughing to hide the pain.Maybe she's become so vile she's thinking vile evil thoughts about link when she talks to him.We will never know...

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I really don't know where zoomers have gotten this idea that every villain needs a sad backstory like a shounen anime.

>>637605831>I remember the Gerudos talking about how they dont appoint their males king anymore but havent been able to not do that for tens of thousands of years because ganon has been alive for that longI don't think they expressly said that, but I swear it was implied in OoT.TP would have been great with allowing us to understand this further... but the Gerudo weren't in it. They'd simply melted into the Hylian population probably because they had to breed with Hylians while Ganon stole the position of the only male of the tribe.God dammit they must have been inbred before OoT.Also, long hair Riju or short hair Riju. How bout both at the same time in the same bed.

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>>637602910The Zelda timeline never had any effort put into it, and never did anything to improve any game's story. The games were mostly unrelated except for direct sequels.

>>637605831Ye they literally have not been able to produce a male in the whole time Ganondorf is alive, hindsight shows that Urbosa was now talking about Ganondorf the Demon King (forma de la ToTK) when she talked about there being no Gerudo chief in their recorded history, but she was specifically talking about Ganondorf (forma de la OoT) when bringing up Nabooru in the victory speech for Vah Naboris since Tears wasn't written at the timeIt's hard to have a male chief in your history when you straight up cannot produce a male heir since your species will only ever have one male heir who reincarnates

>>637606452With Majora it works. Majora is a deity. You will never understand Majora.With Ganon it doesn't because there's enough meat on the bones to ask questions.

>>637606452Ganondorf is just intrinsically evil, literally in Tears his superpower is that he is the Demon King, but since Wind Waker gave him a shred of nuance people want to cast Ganondorf as a more sympathetic villain.Note that Ganondorf was lying out his fucking ass when he said he had noble goals during Ocarina of Time, to Tetra in Wind Waker.

>>637606703You know, I question that Majora is itself a deity. The Majora referred to in Majora's Mask might just be the name of the ancient tribe that crafted the mask the Happy Mask Salesman mentioned.

>>637606905Majora's Mask itself seems to just be a pretty damn big demon, maybe one created with the Song of Healing like all the other transformative masks, or it just kept getting used for curses for so long that it became sentient like Exdeath in Final FantasyI treat him more like Malladus than anything, he's not on Ganon's level but he's nothing to sneeze at

>>637603074Aren’t those throwaway references at this point? Totk doesn’t really agree with them.

>>637606578they all got executed at arbiter's grounds

>>637607079Not in the slightest, Tears disagreeing with anything prior to itself comes from the viewpoint of "Hyrule's founding" meaning Rauru and Sonia. The Master Sword speaking to Zelda with noises lifted from Fi in Skyward Sword disavows any viewpoint that those two predate or immediately post-date Skyward Sword in chronological order, they just founded a new Hyrule the same way Tetra founded a new Hyrule that you play through in Spirit Tracks.

>>637606703How? They even made Skyward Sword for people like you. There is an entire demon king's curse of malic dedicated to taking on incarnations that will plague Zelda and Link through all their future incarnations.Even removed from that, Ganondorf's the king of a shitty desert kingdom granted it by birthright, and also granted the acceptance of the Triforce of Power by birthright. He's built for taking things by force.

>>637607037I’d argue majora is worse simply because it wants everyone dead just because it’s fun, ganon at least wants to rule

>>637606452>SAD BACKSTORY SAD BACKSTORY SAD BACKSTORYall of you faggots have literally never played a good game in your entire fucking life. There's a zillion reasons that could motivate a villain outside of "sad backstory". TotK ganon didn't have a single one.The Trails series has a zillion reasons for every single person carrying out their actions, and basically none of those reasons are "muh tragic backstory". What makes a good villain is a difference of opinion, with both opinions being interesting. But TotK ganon doesn't even have an opinion. He's literally just like "hurr let me just destroy everything because why not xD"

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>>637607476Ganon's motivation is he's such a selfish cunt that he turns into a pig when he touches any kind of powerful magical artifact, and most of his MO is that he can manipulate and ensorcel everyone around him into getting him close to such an artifact


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>>637607102Why does Telma exist then?She even hints she has a weird background from memory.

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>>637607620>yells at people to get out of his swamp>starts the game off invading somebody else's swamp at somebody else's behestwhat was his problem?

Zelda is a kids game starring a magical elf boy with the power of courage. Ganon's motivation has always been power. He wants to be the monarch of Hyrule. His motivation is never more complex than that and never will be stop overthinking it nerds.

BotW already places 10,000 years between Ganon's sealing and BotW's backstory, then another 100 years to BotW's actual events.If there's 10,000 years since the last appearance of Ganon, then the appearance before that could just as easily be another 10,000 year gap with another 10,000 year gap and so on until we see a recognizable Zelda game. The games are so far removed anything could happen multiple times over.

>>637607620>>637607689do you think they were thinking about shrek when they made this guy? >>637607686telma could just be a random redhead and i dont think she ever did off the top of my head.


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>>637585402>There's a sidequest where Kilton talks about wanting people to learn to love monsters but it ends up being pretty superficial to the effect of "they're cute" or whatever.Kilton's just weird, he acknowledges full well in both Breath and Tears that monsters are dangerous and you shouldn't get close to them, plus most of them are retarded or borderline retarded.

>>637569714Why was Demise evil in Skyward Sword?He's the king of fucking demons, that's why.


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