We never realized how good we had it bros
We never realized how good we had it bros
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>>637526102all the wolf parts were shit and the game would have been 3x better if they were cut out
I posted the wrong image.
>>637526102>>637526152Tears of the kingdom is the worst game of 2023!>despite being a set protag the game asks for your pronouns >The legend of Zelda theme by system of a down makes an appearance>In the English dub the merchants will speak a lot and some of them are noticeably male despite some of them voicing females>Mario movie references>shrines are back and are still tiny two-room physics puzzles that give you a spirit orb The first was bad enough with those clunky fuse controls. Why the fuck are the bland looking shrines back?!?>korok seeds are back >weapon durability works the same way >The gerudo dancer outfit now says "meme worthy costume" on the description>The construction feature of the game will autodetect if you are making a swastika>The time travel thing can only happen in one location>The whole map has reused assets to do something "new">There's now a town full of black people>no playable Zelda>There's references to shiek and how "he" transcends the idea of genderThey don't outright call her a tranny but the intention is pretty visible>There are only 4 dungeons (+ hyrule castle, SAME hyrule castle map)>Its the same area you can see in the trailer with Sidon!>There's a souvenir that depicts an earth globe but it's called "the universal fun balloon" which is a reference to the company making the Nintendo theme park at Orlando.>Zelda turns into a dragon after link has been killed off screen so she has to step in and access the secret power she had all along and save the day because the hero has nothing on a princess of wisdom (this is a exact line from the dub)Overall an unmitigated disaster.Theres just games that are so much better and deserve more praise and sales, do yourself a favor and don't buy tears of the kingdom.
>>637526102I'm fine with only having OOT, MM, WW. I don't need any other games.
>>637526102>5 hr tutorial>bug hunting>wolf sections>Terrible pacing>Ganondorf was behind it all!>Just as easy as Wind Waker>Dull ugly version of OoT>Terrible Anime story>Useless items Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword killed traditional 3D Zelda.
>>637526231I don't like totk I dropped it after realizing what I feared it would be (botw dlc) but I got about 4 hours in when did they ask you for pronouns
TP is shit. WW was better despite being a rushed product but nobody gave it a chance back then because "MUH graphics" TP killed OoT zelda. TP brought NOTHING good to the series
>>637526152I absolutely love the wolf parts and the dark zones. No other Zelda had this mood.youtube.com
>>637526367They ask for pronouns about 4 and a half hours in.
>>637526514WW has the worst dungeons in the series what the fuck are you talking about at least TP has like 2 good dungeons. I'm tired of you windniggers coming in and telling everyone how your shitslop is better than everyone else cause muh cel shade grafics
>>637526514TP brought NOTHING good to the se-
>>637527126WW had better dungeons. No I will NOT elaborate
>>637526102It's the third best game in the series. >>637526152The wolf parts are pretty short. Plus I'd rather play the wolf parts than touch Nu-Zelda. Still not playing your Ubisoft Gary's Mod durability simulator
>>637527463-ACK!!! AAIIIII IM SORRY TWILIGHT PRINCESS IS ACTUALLY GOOD!!! THE MONSTERS ALL LOOK AWESOME!!!! I TAKE IT BACK!!!!
every fucking monster design in this game is brimming with untamed energy and soul.it's the peak of combat in the series.it was the most mature zelda game. it was made for people who grew up on ocarina of time and (outside of the rough opening) holds your hand the least
>>637527463>Great fairy progressively shows you more of her body the farther you get>in the final chamber she stands up and gives you a pretty good look at her breastsMan this kind of makes me realize that BotW and TotK have a lot of homosexual undercurrents.
>>637527608Those Lizalfos were motherfuckers. I recall the only attack they couldn't guard was the mortal draw.
Remember when Zelda games had an art style to the menus instead of the same shitty minimalistic corporate cellphone menu that everything has?
Better Ocarina of Time Remake than TOTK this Game had Soul bring me back to 2006 please
I don't understand the hate for the wolf sections, Wolf Link doesn't even play so fundamentally different that it feels intrusive.
>>637528578Butthurt fags who never actual played TP
>>637526102I cant stop laughing at people who still call "link" "zelda"! lmfao if they aint got it yet they never will!
>>637527863It's easily the easiest game in the series.
>>637528352Every single game, no every single media in the world is like this now, fucking hate it
>>637526102that was the last nintendo game i boughti played it and let my Wii rot on a shelf
>>637528352No man, you don't get it, the shitty corporate memu is SOVL and more effective
>>637528253you can break their guard with several of the weapons
>>637528690>game doesnt control like complete n64 jankshit>dur game is too easy
>>637530316It is easy.
I like how all the people who complain about TOTK's washed out colors will defend Twilight Princess' complete lack of colors and disgusting amounts of bloom.
>>637530316None of the monsters in TP do any damage. It's impossible to die in that game.
>>637530316TP was so easy that you have to use Hero mode and a amiibo just to get some level of danger involved in fighting
Can't wait until the next two Zelda games come out when all you faggots start claiming ToTK is where the series peaked. This cycle has been going for years.
>>637526102That game was pretty ass.Not as ass as MM but still ass.
>>637530701>>637530787combat isn't the entire game. the puzzles not being essentially solved for you by an annoying companion makes the game harder than other entries in the series.I found that if you aren't autisticly grinding every single heartpiece as early as you can get it and just playing the game blind, fights only become trivial with some potions in stock. managing resources on a casual playthrough felt engaging.after all what does increased difficulty give you? a return to the start of a dungeon a few times? more walking around not being challenged replaying shit you have already shown mastery over
>>637531442>He thinks Zelda is about puzzlesOh boy I wonder what this dungeon item I just got is used for....Face it. TP is babby tier. In combat. in puzzles. Its just easy as fuck
The first couple of hours completely kills all motivation I have to play it.
>>637530816Someday some retard will claim that ToTK is where the series peaked, but he won't be me. He will be a zoomer that grew playing ToTK on a switch his parents bought him. You'll still try to say that I'm him and he's me and that I somehow changed my mind because you don't understand that anonymous posters are all different people.
>>637531442Oracle of Ages has way better puzzles than TP.>if you aren't autisticly grinding every single heartpieceIf you have to skip heart containers just so you aren't immortal then the game is easy.
>>637526102I realized it immediately. I always knew. I never forgot. TP is, and always will be, the Zelda for chads.
>>637526152Midna's grunting while riding Wolf Link still gets me rock hard
>late 90s>Zelda is renowned for not feeling penned in while still getting a lot of mileage out of its largely linear design>now>Zelda has thrown away all semblance of linear design because "muh linear bad", even though it never felt restrictive until the really shitty oneswhy why why why why why why why why
>>637531593if TP is babby-tier so is every single 3D zeldaeither that or you played with a guide (LOSER LOL)>>637533212no. you just can't stand to play video games without using a guide (LOSER LOL)I'd have to unplug my switch to check how many hearts I ended the game with, but i was nowhere near max and I still got a lot of the secret ones
>>637526102I didIts the sequel to Oot that we asked for but you fags hate it
>>637530551not defending itbut i think theres a difference between using bloom and colors to define an area as unpleasant and eerie and whats done in totk where theres almost a filter over everything in general.for example, the depths is all color toned and its fine, if you were smart you would've drawn that comparison instead.
>>637533658Most enemies only deal half a heart, even if you never get heart pieces you will never be in danger. The game is baby mode>so is every single 3D zeldaBreath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom have enemies that can deal 10 hearts of damage in a single hit. You will die far more often in those games than in TP. The hands in TOTK are harder than any enemy in TP.
>>637527917He had nothing to do with any of those games.
>>637533862Twilight Princess looks like shit even outside of the Twilight Realm. Everything is brown and shit green like every other AAA game of that era.
>>637533959i specifically recall enemies in the later dungeons doing 3-5 hearts of damage with a direct attackthe dragon boss in the sky temple could kill me from full HP in 2 hitswho cares if the mosquitos or bokoblins do half a heart of damage? they appear at the very start of the game
It's not as shit as Skyward Sword, but it's still shit
>>637527917>20 years later, he's still rightTalk about The Absolute State of this board.
>>637526787Y’know, no Zelda sequence or most vidya has ever come close to this, it’s so fucking beautiful, so le kino that I can’t even hate on a single aspect of TP because of it.
>>637530551twilight princess came out in a time when every game had toned down brown colors.Look at resident evil 4 and resonance of fate.
>>637530551That shot is while that section of the world is covered in twilight you disingenuous fuck
>>637528690This is because nothing does damage to Link and the master sword does too much damage The hero mode in TPHD wasn't quite enough. double 1/4th is only 1/2th heart of damage. You could just not collect heart containers but you depriving yourself out of content.For a linear game like TP, you think they could incorporate more mechanics into boss fights rather than "use dungeon item three times". I can't even recall moments to use the gale boomerang once you beat the first dungeon.
>>637537629>less change!No, more content and difficulty. More than five dungeons would be a start.>more nostalgia!I don't think anyone had any huge overarching concerns with this one though, the only reason we didn't get more was because capcom.>less nostalgia!No, more difficulty. Amount of content was about right, start was a bit slow.>last three panelsjust a descent into madnessGod I hate this fucking "zelda cycle" meme. The issues with these games have been the same since day one. I know what I wanted. I liked what I got to some extent, I just always had the same damn "end goal" of what I considered to be a good damn game.
>>637538206The issue with post-MM Zelda is that Aonuma has no idea what people liked about OoT. Nor does he know how to design a boss fight that isn't "use item on boss three times" or "literally just fight him like normal... maybe you'll have to dodge".BotW's puzzles and boss fights are, if you do them exactly as intended, pretty much the same as OoT's. Aonuma just gussied them up with "freedom"... which made them easier.
>>637528168>Great fairy progressively shows you more of her body the farther you get>in the final chamber she stands up and gives you a pretty good look at her breastsbullshit
>>637526152>wolf link was shitKill yourself NOW
TP is complete ass and practically the reason why the series turned into open air from.The game was so unimaginative and set on forcing you through a set in stone sequence of events and not giving you any reason to care about shit outside of that that it killed off what hope people had for the series.BotW is far from ideal, but dear god just Eventide island alone is such a huge step up from TP in its entirety that the tradeoff is easily worth it is the only alternative was "TP likes".
>>637539587BotW is fun and novel for a bit but every physics tool does piss all damage to enemies so why the hell should I even bother getting creative? "Take a full five minutes to kill this one enemy or blow a high tier weapon on the task" is freemium-tier disrespect for my time and effort.And god only knows dealing with enemies is the thing you'll be doing most consistently. Shrines last only minutes if you know how Zelda puzzle design works. All this to say, I don't give two shits about "muh freedom". I would rather play through a dozen TP-likes back to back than see Zelda completely subsumed by this beast it's become.
>>637526152agree, love the rest of the game
>>637539891My entire point is simply that, despite how much filler slop content BotW has, the actually engaging things it does come up with solidly beat out all of TP in both their quality and quantity, because bugger me if carrying a water pot across a field or hearing a bunch of goats isn't the most interesting quest I could come up with.
>>637539587TP is the main reason I loved Zelda and I wanted more of it
Best dungeon from each 3D game:OoT: Child: Dodongo's Cavern, Adult: SpiritMM: Stone Tower templeWW: Forbidden WoodsTP: City in the SkySS: Ancient CisternBOTW is not a real 3D zelda game. Nor is TOTK.
>>637540243And I'm saying that since it insists on every engaging thing it does dragging on for way too long, whether in one sitting or via being constantly fucking repeated, I don't give botw credit for anything. Meanwhile TP's biggest sin is that it drags on too long when it's already pretty linear. It never feels like you could even be doing better when you sniff out all the shadow bugs or whatever.
>>637540453>city in the sky, the jank half-finished temple>when snowpeak ruins existsliterally the most soulful dungeon i've ever seen in any game
>>637530551Contrast>colorsTurn your pic to Grayscale and compate that with a non cherry picked screenshot from NuZelda. Nuzelda has very little contrast.
>>637530551the twilight realm just always looks badthe light world looks fine. great even
>>637530551>screenshot of TWILIGHT princess in the TWILIGHT realm at TWILIGHT>wtf why is everything sunset colors?
>>637526102yeah i sure miss all that fishing and cattle herdingor how about that mission with the cart on fire? peak zelda gaming
>>637542413>yeah i sure miss all that fishing and cattle herdingThis but unironically
>>637542749>donut steel the redditfrog kill yourself
>>637526152That and the teardrop shit was unbearable.I wonder why the WW and TP remasters never got ported to switch
>>637528168The great fairies in botw/totk are pure wexo though
>>637542749dont forget the marble game, canoe bow shooting
>>637526191i'd take every wolf link section over the shitty depths or "temples" in totk.
>>637526152the sound and character design alone justifies wolf link
>someone dared to give this game 8.8/10 in a review>this made NintoddIers seethe in angerIt's insane that NintoddIers has always been like this
Why are we not public banning spammers?
>A thread that isn't completely shitting on Twilight PrincessHow refreshing. Post more TP soul.
>>637526231Conway's LawThey probably had separate isolated teams building each aspect of the game.>Core engine>Overworld>Shrines>Temples>Story/writing>CombatAll these things feel put together in a way that feels like a patchwork quilt instead of an elaborate tapestry. I suspect the organizational structure at Nintendo is the root cause of this.
>>637543772Frankly Jeff's review was actually terrible and I think people forge about this. The score was completely reasonable, but his reasoning was essentially that "Zelda was stale", when that was entirely the fault of the game for being incredibly unoriginal.
i didnt care for it since my wife Medli wasnt in the game
>>637526102says you. I liked it day 1youtu.be
I'm playing it right now. Why the fuck did they make Link turn into a wolf? I'm a couple of hours in, and so far I've spent more time as a wolf than I have as normal Link.
>>637545068it was the gimmick to hype up the game, like ocarina's time travel or majora's mask transformations
>>637526102Literally the blandest, more uninspired game in the series. The unseasoned chicken of Zelda.
>>637526338the furry edgelords won't face the truth user there's no use
I really liked it back on release, to me it felt like OOT2 which was cool enough for me.Also, for those that feel like the game's too easy (since it is), have you tried this?skilarmbabcock.wixsite.com
>>637528671kys, there's nothing enjoyable about spamming the sense and dash button in a washed out color pallette to hunt sone fucking bugs with a restricted moveset
>>637534294you forgot to mention how terrible the npc models look, especially the people
>>637526102>We never realized how good we had it brosI did. Fuck nu Zelda.
>>637526102Even my 13 year old self recognized the game was just a shitty attempt at a edgy and realistic Zelda that had zero fucking substance and as soon as I beat it I popped my Zelda's collector's edition disc in to wash the taste off.
>>637546705>zelda collector's discbased, mine is too scratched, I miss it every day
>everyone's nostalgic about fucking TP of all things/v/ has truly become zoomer central
>>637541384Both are great, city in the sky feels like a proper ultimate temple though and all the verticality in the puzzles made it fun
>>637526102Rose tinted glasses.The wolf section are awful
>>637526514>"TP brought NOTHING good to the series">Best art direction>Best manga adaptation that fixes the flaws of the game>Best atmosphereIt's not a perfect game, but it sure as fuck did far more than Skyward Sword did.
>>637543885this posters makes me nut. the colors, the framing, it's all so fucking perfect, the shadow creatures leering forward hhhhhnggggggggggg
>>637537629I've been looking for this comic for ages god bless you
>>637526102I get what you mean but realistically what else could have happened? I enjoyed OoT/MM/TP/WW but they can't keep doing the same formula forever. People will get burned out. The gaming scene evolves and so do customer demands. Still I wouldn't mind if in a few years they made a smaller, carefully crafted, more traditional Zelda experience.
>>637527463U know what the difference is between tp and everything after? In everything after they stretch their handmade assets as far as they can go, they got you revisiting every level 3 times to collect music notes and shit. Whereas with tp (due to bad direction) they have the most random ass shit like the dead zora queen who only appears once, and the dark link cutscene.
>>637528578It's the teardrops I hate, every other part of the Wolf sections is good
>>637538206The problem cannot be solved by damage, the problem with every zeldas combat is that links frame data is way too good. I will say that the icicle guys were the best and hardest enemy type though, since they had good range moves and blocked all the quickest attacks.
>>637526102This was the last zelda game I played.It was okay.
>>637526102>posting garbage that ruined Zelda in the first place>"We never realized how good we had it bros"Spirit Tracks and A Link Between Worlds were the last beacons of hope while Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword were so trash that Nintendo wound up tossing everything those two games did into a bin and started anew with Breath of the Wild. Congrats, your game was the beginning of the end for 3D Zelda while 2D maintains a mostly spotless record.
>>637526102I did. 2005/2006 were the last good years of everything.>>637526338TP is miles better than SS.Stop denying it.
>>637552475Most mistakes that TP/SS made began in WW. Stop excluding the root of the problem.
>>637526102Age apart, it's so saddening just how much better it looks like compared to BotW/TotK.
Bug sections take at most 10 minutes each and they aren't even as tedious. Why do people seethe so hard about them?
>>637526102I played ALTTP and OOT as a kid but that was my experience with Zelda. going back and playing TP now and I don't understand why people disliked it. granted I'm not using the shitty waggle controls but mechanically it's solid and it's been a good time so far.
>>637530551works on my machine
>>637530551Yeah, I know. It's so weird that a game that wanted to have a dark fantasy aesthetic goes for a darker color palette
>>637526102wolf sections still suck but yeah this game is pure ludo just beat it again a couple weeks ago
Tears of the Kingdom is the first time since the NES games that the series has had anything close to actual dungeon crawling
>>637526102The more popular something becomes the worse it gets. It's like an unavoidable force of nature. It just happens every time without fail.
>>637526102>post oot zelda>goodI hate zoomers
>>637560362Secondaries come for the hype and have 0 investment in the series nor recognize what elements are central to its identity. So they prefer sanitized more accessible versions so long as similar iconography remains. Much like star wars, dragonball, final fantasy 7 or any other franchise
>>637539587Which is why they went to skyward sword right after, the most open air game in the series!
>>637560875Fate might be the worst in my personal experience
>>637544635>but his reasoning was essentially that "Zelda was stale"He was right then, and he's still right. The game drags on and on and on. I was 12 when it came out and I got fucking bored in the back half of the game.
>>637561152My brother, you and I share the same burden.
>>637561219Yes, the game itself is stale, the point is that Jeff didn't complain about that game specifically being bad, but rather attributed its flaws to a sickness of the series as a whole.
>>637539587You can admit you were too old to play games at the time and by the time botw came out you were just old enough to get back into them.
>>637528690Wind waker and Minish cap are brainless tier. TP is a tier above them at least.
>>637526102TP is probably the blandest zelda.
>>637526102This is LITERALLY trannytrash with no creativity endlessly rehashing ideas and concepts from older Zelda while being disrespectful to the very first onesFuck all aonumaslop
>>637564219i would rather it be bland and offensive like skyward sword
>>637564378SS was a better game.
>>637564665>empty sky>revisit the same areas 5 times>everywhere is like a maze>dousing>imprisoned v3 no
>>637527463They all look ugly, you deranged furry
>>637526102Who knew Nintendo would fuck us over like that, bros. It's so fucking over. We had to witness yet another beloved franchise go down the shitter. The worst part is watching so called "fans" happily contribute to the death of the franchise by financially supporting it. Sad.
>>637526102Haven't played it but I really want to. I wonder how well the remake would run on a Steam Deck.
>>637527584>ubisoft>gary's modyes it's clear you haven't, keep seething butthurt purist
OoT and MM were the only good traditional 3D Zelda.
TP > OoT = MM >>> SS > BotW > WWI will not buy TotK.
>>637559656god I miss darknuts and ironknuckles
>>637565910>TP > OoT
>>637564665SS is absolutely the better game, largely because it made much more creative use of items and really nailed that aspect as well as it could, despite everything it does wrong.
>>637565910>TP > OoTAhahaha
>>637566482>>637566726TP's highs are my absolute favorites in Zelda and the only downside that actually bothers me is how low the difficulty is tuned. TP but harder is basically my perfect video game.
>>637526102Not only that, but you fags specifically called the OOT formula stale by the time this game came out.
>>637526231it looked fun from the streams I saw. started it up last night and having a blast so farAre people overreacting?
>>637567008It was really beginning to show its limitations by this point. TP is a great game on its own, but where else does that formula go from here?
>>637526514>TP killed OoT zelda.What?
>>637560876My cute autistic wife
Zant should've kept his helmet on. Also I wish his clothes were obtainable in TOTK/BOTW
>>637564893I guess, but it's not like that's anything new, Zelda (as far as the 3D games on consoles) has been pretty sparse, and not that great since TP>2011: Skyward Sword, a retarded baby game for retard babies>2017: BotW, a vast overreaction to SS that kept all the bad shit (stamina, crafting, shield durability, pattycake combat) while removing any story or level design worth a shit because ADHD kids got bored by it>2023 TotK, BotW Nuts & Bolts12 years for two games and one expansion pack sold as a MORE expensive sequelMeanwhile in just 8 years we got OoT, MM, WW, and TPZelda hasn't been Zelda in a very long time
>>637567898Midna renounced him for a reason - she knew he was a shitter that was being hard carried by something. Zant going nuts was just him revealing what Midna knew from the start.
>>637567215>it looked fun from the streams I saw. started it up last night and having a blast so farThing about open world games is that they're only as fun for as long as they capture your imagination.Open world gamers are like women, and open world games are the men trying to date them. The Chads like Skyrim and TotK keep this air of mystery about them, not revealing its true self until it's too late. The first few hours of a competent open world game are always exciting, because your imagination is running wild with all the possibilities that could be in the game. The tutorial area sure showed some exciting stuff, you can't wait for that experience to be topped! Then, at some point in the game, you realize that the game blew its load within the first few hours and that you haven't really discovered anything particularly exciting since then. When you walk in the open world, you see these trails to the side and they don't pique your curiosity anymore because you know it's just copy pasted content that you've seen already. New Zeldas are particularly bad about this, because they've turned the idea of "bite sized puzzles" into soulless instanced areas with the same aesthetic. And after your excitement wears off and you realize that the game "could have been better," you trust the same developer to deliver in the next game hoping it will be totally different, only for them to use the exact same formula.Break the cycle, user.
>>637568213>Open world gamers are like women, and open world games are the men trying to date them.>Break the cycle, user.Agreed, open world games should immediately scare the hoes
>>637527863>peak of the combat>press A to perform one-shot move with a long-ass animation
>>637568154It's not even about the plot, I just think he looks better with it on
>>637528690wind waker is push a to win
>>637540453OoT: Forest TempleMM: Snowhead TempleWW: WInd TempleTP: Lakebed TempleSS: Sky KeepBotW: The Fifth Divine BeastTotK: So far Lookout Landing Cave.
>>637526102BUT DOES IT HAVE AN EMPTY WORLD WITH HECKIN MINECRAFT BRUH FR?????
>>637527863>it's the peak of combat in the series.That would be Link to the Past zoomzoom
>>637540453oot: spirit templemm: stone towerww: tower of the gods (purely for atmosphere)tp: arbiter's groundsss: sandshipbotw: hyrule castle
>>637526240Yeah this >>637530668 And spirit tracks don't hate me
>>637568975>>637540453Worst temple from every 3D game>OoT: Jabu Jabu>MM: Woodfall>WW: Tower of the Gods (Not counting Forsaken Fortress)>TP: Temple of Time>SS: Haven't it all the way through>BotW: Vah Medoh>TotK: Water Temple I quit playing after this
>>637569424i was about to argue with you about temple of time being the worst but yes it is. it's not bad every temple is just very good in tp
>>637569424>Water TempleDefinitely the most underwhelming named temple segment in the game, but I use the water power I got from it a lot and the approach/boss were really cool too. Also I really hope we can find low gravity boots that give you the high jump effect, it was so much fun to use in that whole sequence
>Zelda goes 3D>2D Zelda fans still eat plenty good to this day because they kept making very good albeit smaller scale 2D Zeldas for the less powerful handhelds>Zelda goes open world>conveniently at the exact same time Nintendo switches to one hybrid console/handheld hardwareIt really is over
People fixate on dungeons in Zelda, but the word 'dungeon' to me suggests a level of danger and uncertainty that I don't think any of the 3D games before BotW ever really aspired to. I don't consider a cool themed setpiece to be a dungeon if you can't get lost or there's no danger of ever dying
>>637569760>>2D Zelda fans still eat plenty goodLies 3D was being a constant insult to 2D until BotW buckbroke all aonumatrannies on the universe and now all is in order in the world because 3D Zelda is being designed like 2D zeldasFUCK aonuma
Please stop shilling this garbage game.
>>637568775Oh. Yeah, hard agree on that.
>>637569760Have you played Tunic?
>>637569792What uncertainty is there in BotW? Whether or not you're gonna get a Korok seed vs a shitty weapon?
>>637570157The possibility to actually lose a combat encounter
>>637568036Zelda hasn't been Zelda since MM and that's because Koizumi cucked aonuma out of the leading the devs, if Koizumi or any chad tasked to develop MM weren't around MM would have been the first shitty zelda, instead that was TP
>>637533512I just listened to TP OST the other day. There is a song that is 2min of Zora (loli) moaning
>>637570247>The possibility to actually lose a combat encounter>walk up to bokoblin>spam Y>eat food>winWoah, so much uncertainty
>>637526102Literally only women, faggots and trannies like thisI have never met a man IRL that likes this game
>>637569982>3D Zelda is being designed like 2D zeldas>FUCK aonumano it isnt
>>637550648The teardrops are three 10 minute sections in the first third of the game. They're shit, but the sections themselves a way too overblown.
>>637570505>spam Y>winwhoa pal were you trying to describe the lowest level mook encounter in BotW or every battle in TP?
>>637570637maybe don't surround yourself with just women faggots and trannies
>>637568559Mortal Draw has a situational setup and requires good timing against an active offense. If you mess it up, you take a hit. Ending Blow actually fixes the dead air from WW's knockdowns. Not sure which other move you're talking about.
>massive empty stretches across the entire game world for the sake of lens-flare cinematic shots of the wide-open expanse>terrain is so fucking big that you're granted teleportation with Midna almost immediately instead, even Wind Waker doesn't let you warp between whirlpools right off the cuff>fucking UGLY human characters trying to blend Ocarina of Time's cartoony character models with a more realistic and brown-and-bloom artstyle>Wolf Link segments to scout ahead feel tacked-on>hell Wolf Link in general feels tacked on outside of the initial Hyrule Castle and Ordon stretch>all of the Hero's Shade sword techniques are parries from Wind Waker and are useful only really in the same circumstances>NO MAGIC METER>no instrument
>>637570695Pre-BotW combat had you using items on enemies.If Zelda is about combat to you then you should play the Souls games anyway
>>637570736well what would he have to get mad about all day as a migrant from one of the MRA subreddits if he didn't surround himself with them? huh? you ever think about that? think about HIS needs to be constantly upset
>>637571132you can only teleport on demand after you get the master word, just like you can only teleport on demand in tww after you get the bow
>>637526102Beta TP was pure soul
>>637539132In the sense that at first she looks ethereal and distant and by the end you get too see only her hair covers her breasts.
>>637526338>Terrible pacingCan't fucking wait till you see the spirit temple in TotK. You'll think the 5 hour tutorial of TP was too short.
>>637526102Now we're stuck with thisyoutu.be
>>637570736I'm mostly surrounded by men, just yesterday I had a 4 hour disc call with bros while we were all playing TotK, literally the Straight Man's gameNo need for shitty victimism, no need for gay plot twists, just a good ass game with lots to discuss about, like just discussing how we progressed was enough to have laughs, for example, one guy didn't find any temple or the camera but was already attempting to fight ganon, on any topic after he won the argument he was refuted with "but you don't have the camera" and we all laughed, women can't experience this shit That guy was me
>>637571639why does he say goro that way lmao, it should be appended like "we got to save her-goro"
>>637570646>Exploration instead of tranny plot about tranny mcguffins2D Zelda + BowT/TotK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Aonuma slop (3D Zelda)
>>637540453OoT: Forest TempleMM: They're all great. Great Bay is probably the most complex Zelda dungeon, though the boss is complete cancer. WW: Probably Dragon Roost, or the mirror shield dungeon with Medli whatever that one was called. TP: Sky templeSS: The Buddhist one. I don't remember another other dungeon bar the sliding puzzle final dungeon, and that kinda sucked.
>>6375718202d zeldas arent designed anything like botw/totk
>>637571991Explain Zelda 1 thenI swear all aonumatrannies deserve genocide
>>637571991This. 2D Zelda is actually good.
>>637571639that dude sounds like shaggy
>>637572083zelda 1 isnt anything like botw, and even if it were, that's one game out of many
>>637526947am i retarded or is this not a joke
>>637572253>Free exploration isn't free explorationAokikes literally lack the IQ to comprehend what their eyes see
>>637571132>>massive empty stretches across the entire game world>proceeds to offer comparisons to OoT and WW
>>637572487You're literally retarded. Aonuma's the one trying to convince people that botw is a callback to Zelda 1, a game where items are found in dungeons and affect how you interact with the world.
>>637572684Ocarina of Time is concise enough and offers warp songs early enough into each area that not having a horse is really not a botherWind Waker still has little shit going on as you travel through the Great Sea even if practically speaking it is barrenTwilight Princess doesn't have either of these things
>>637572487>Free explorationThere is nothing free about the original Zelda there is a order to which each dungeon is attempted due to item requirements.
>>637572696Aotranny got btfo'd out of the director's chair and now has to go along with what the actual devs says, just like with MM but this time he isn't even listed as a director (hint: even aonuma admits koizumi took over him)Go play the pre OoT games (except link's awakening), they all share more with botw than the linear schlock that aonuma made
>>637572487confirmed for having never played zelda 1. its more free than others but certainly not ultimately free.
>>637572487Zelda 1 is all about getting key items from the world/dungeons to then beat Ganon. It's quite structured. *Some* dungeons can be completed and items can be bought out of order, but that's about it. >But muh speedrun exploitsDon't care.
>>637526102>posts the worst game nintendo ever made
>>637572776Lmao, that's a long way to admit you didn't play zelda 1>muh guides!Yeah, following guides isn't playing
>>637572774>offers warp songs early enoughYou get warping as soon as you enter hyrule field in TP and move towards Kakariko.
>>637572776And then retards who never played the original without a walkthrough will go>UHHH ACTUALLY YOU CAN PLAY IN ANY ORDER YOU WANTIgnoring that the numbered progression is the "organic" way of playing since the game offers hints that you get through item-locked sequences.Nevermind the fact that comparing a game to its 40 year old predecessor that ran on a 6502 processor and didn't even fully flesh out its own concept is fucking dumb
>>637543390they didn't sell at all. Turns out nobody actually liked Windwaker or Twilight Princess. They both sucked. The market has spoken
>>637572774>Wind Waker still has little shit going on as you travel through the Great Sea even if practically speaking it is barrenpress r to jump the sharkcome to crawl to pick up 20 rupees from the bottom of the ocean>>637573084that's a fun way to say you never played zelda 1
>>637573003Are TotK or BowT ultimately free?Both are free-er than zelda 1 but still closer than the strict railway of 3D zelda
>>637573128And why do you think that is, in Twilight Princess>>637573164You are not quite getting that this is still more than what's going on in TP's overworld
>>637573153botw has a natural progression system to, the game funnels you in a specific order unless you go out of your way to ignore it.What's your point? (you don't have one)
>>637573084Yeah I played it and I know only the first three dungeon don't require a item to get to them. Everything after that requires a item or combination of items from the first three.
>>637573204i never said 2d wasnt generally speaking freer than 3d zelda. i was arguing against the point that botw is designed like 2d zelda, when it isnt
>>637573009>Zelda 1 is all about getting key items from the world/dungeonsAverage guide follower, there was no indication how to get any of that, you had to explore and piece everything together
>>637573153Dude there were fully open world games before zelda. And I mean FULLY OPEN WORLD not kiddy shit that required items to progress like zelda did.
>>637573370but you still had to piece stuff together and get items to progress
>>637573264TLoZ didn't just "funnel" players into dungeons, it was unlikely to do content out of order without prior knowledge of the game's layout since in order to get the ingame hints you had to use items you got from dungeons. Non-linearity was an option in 2D Zelda games, not the main gimmick.
Yeah, thankfully we're not getting games like TP again. Here is the actual tier list
>>637573153>Ignoring that the numbered progression is the "organic" way of playingEach time I replay the game (with gaps of 3 to 4 years) I never find the 3rd temple before most of the rest>>6375732915 and iirc 6 don't require items, 8 and the final one only require droppable/buyable items, iirc only 4 needs the raftand again, there is no clear indication while playing that you are going to find "the next" temple, if you don't play with guides you are 100% going to find them out of order and then have to beat them close to the numbered orderIf the game was as linear as you said there would have been no need to tell you explicitly which level is 1 or 2, you know, like in 3D zelda
>>637573912>Link Between Worlds>Svomitous filth
>>637573370The fuck are you on about? Is Metroid/Super Metroid now an inspiration for BOTW? A game were you can run straight to the final boss and beat the game with no exploration required at all? Is OG Resident Evil 1 now a inspiration?
>>637573912>wind wanker>aput that thing down in c where it belongs
>>6375739603D Zelda decided to tell a actual story and have actual characters. People definitively prefer that over a free approach that resulted in a bland boring game like A Link Between Worlds.
>>637526231Sounds like peak zoomercore, which is terrible
>>637573518>you still had to piece stuff togetherLike in BotW/totk and unlike aonuma-zelda>get items to progressMost items didn't lock the immediate next step in progress, like certain other worse designed games
>>637573071No one is talking about Wii Music here.
>>637574057>Is Metroid/Super Metroid now an inspiration for BOTW?Literal schizophrenia, even DQ had some non-linearity back then (only 1 and 3 iirc), it was after mid snes era that the great linear shift turned lgbt and then consumed zelda
>>637543885I really liked the SS concept art way before release that was in TP's art style. I was slightly disappointed by the way the game looked but still had fun with it.
>>637526152FPBP TPedos seething
>>637526102It was a great swan song for the Gamecube.
>>637574194>3D Zelda decided to tell a actual storyAnd they all sucked except for Majora that decided to have a really simple plot surrounded by tons of interesting little plots, again, Chad Koizumi knowing what are the strengths of his media
>>637574636oot has a good story
>>637574034More fun than anything below it. I actually made an error. Let me fix it.>>637574162It's right we're it belongs. Comfy and charming, with a good story, music and the best iterations of the main trio.
>>637574750comfy and charming isnt enough to put a game in a when the actually gameplay itself is below shallow and is half baked
>>637574741>Link treated as a gary stu by every woman and still acting like a wimp>literally errand boy doing what he is told until ganon cucks him>even after being cucked you can travel in time, somewhat undoing his shit and later on undo his shit with your time travelNah, it was piss poopoo
>Forest Temple>Goron Mines>Lakebed Temple>Arbiter's Grounds>Snowpeak Ruins>Temple of Time>City in the Sky>Palace of Twilight>Hyrule CastleGreat dungeons
>>637574497>even DQ had some non-linearity>some non-linearityYes you retard *SOME* non-linearity, which means it had some actual linearity. This linearity is how the games had structure and progression. BOTW lets you skip everything. It has no structure, you do what you want and finish the game whenever you can be arsed to. It's not like Zelda 1 where you cannot just run straight to the final boss. Saying BOTW is a call back to Zelda 1 because you can explore is an incredibly disingenuous argument. OoT is a better callback because you can do some temples out of order, while also getting key items from them.
>>637559192re4 and twilight princess just have that soul
I'm the only one in this thread who bought and played twilight princess on release on my GameCube. You don't have to kneel, it's ok.
>>637574892the actual gameplay is ocarina of time with some enhancements
>>637540453OoT: Spirit, both Child and AdultMM: Stone towerWW: Forbidden fortressTP: SnowpeakSS:Ancient Cistern (solely because of the boss)BotW: Fifth divine beastTotK: Lightning templeBONUS: the best dungeon in the series is ice cavern in LBW
>>637575064I'd say the run from Lakebed to City is straight gold. The first 2 are decent starters and Hyrule Castle is a good battle gauntlet with optional small keys, but ultimately a bit simple. Palace, though, is basically a Wind Waker dungeon, very simple to a fault. Solid boss though.
>>637575274Gamecube version is better. It's the system for which it was made for. Wii version is just a port.
>>637575327ah yes i remember the 5 dungeons in oot with a drawn out fetch quest
>>637575582i remember shifting goalposts on what "gameplay" means too
>linear as fuck and tons of handholding>cringeworthy cutscenes>little to no innovation, doesn't even improve the formula from the N64 games>Link isn't as mobile as in previous games (Wind Waker Link could crouch and hide)>filler tear segments>shitty tryhard atmosphere for grimdark niggers>too much expository dialogue>artstyle that aged like milk>swimming feels awful>non-existent difficulty even by 3D Zelda standards>final boss was predictable and boring>dungeon design is basically on rails>worst looking bokoblins in the series>most enemies are beaten in pretty much the same way: look for an opening, rapidly hit the B button until it recovers from the assault and guards again, rinse, repeat>crappy story, failed to explain anything in a compelling manner>NPCs are soulless and not engaging, you can't even interact with most people in Castle Town>worst battle music in the series, which also ruined the Midna's Lament track>barely any sidequests>basically no interconnected areas except for Lake Hylia>Death Mountain Area is a fucking line with no branches or secret areas>LITERALLY A FUCKING LINE>item usage was limited>potions, fairies, upgrades, and the like are useless and offer no variety>babby tier puzzles (open the door by shooting an obviously placed eye switch, woooow)>dull soundtrack>both the overworld and villages are shallow and not dynamic>no free-roaming, gotta wait for the plot to explore other areas
>>637575647never set them up to begin with. we just had different ideas and that's ok
>>637575107>BOTW lets you skip everything. It has no structure, you do what you want and finish the game whenever you can be arsedHoly fucking based, see just reading that sounds based and in practice it is too>It's not like Zelda 1 where you cannot just run straight to the final bossand zelda 1 isn't the forced railroad that forces you along 1 path until you see the credits, most dungeons can be found out of order and even beaten this way, as I said before, they even had to number them to give you a good suggestion because otherwise you wouldn't know, and why you wouldn't know? BECAUSE THE GAME NEVER FORCES YOU ALONG ANY PATHWhich is what directs the gameplay of both zelda 1, 3 and the 2 last onesEven fixating on the final boss shows how you have to ignore everything but one fight to ignore how the overall adventure is laid for the playermost wouldn't get around fresh out of the great plateau into the sanctum of hyrule castle, again, because obtaining information is crucial here, which it is not on linear, gay, aonuma zelda
>>637575734>>worst looking bokoblins in the seriesskyward sword bokoblins are autistic cancer tier also>MOM I POSTED IT AGAIN!
>>637575734Wind Waker has the best bokoblins
>>637528168>in the final chamber she stands up and gives you a pretty good look at her breastsWhy don't games use erotic content as a reward anymore?
>>637575734HOLY. PHUKING. BASED.
Reminder that almost all anti-BotW/TotK faggots are TP lovers.
>>637575734But enough about totk
>>637526338> >5 hr tutorialAre you fucking retarded or something?
>>637576273It' like Saint Seiya, all the fags that dislike the original like Lost Canvas
>>637575734>best dungeons>best atmosphere>best combat>best graphics>best companion>best final boss>best mangaYep, it's TP time.
>>637558082>more details in a wall than in the entire nu zelda gamefuck off I'm not gonna cry
>>637564893>I pirate TOTK>Friends confused why I would do that when I've been playing zelda longer than them>Game sells 10 mil copiesFuck this world, the only reason they didn't pirate is because emulators and jailbreaking is "too confusing"
>>637575806THE GAME DOES HAVE A PATH YOU RETARD, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO THE FIRST 3 DUNGEONS IN ANY ORDER DOESN'T NOW MEAN THERE IS NO PATH AT ALL, THAT'S THE REASON WHY THEY'RE NUMBERED. Dungeon 6 is more difficult than dungeon 2. Whereas in BOTW all the fucking divine beasts are the same baby tiered difficulty. Why all the bosses are baby tier. Why there's no dungeon items. BOTW has 0 progression outside of an arbitrary checklist that means fuck all. Beating the dungeons, and exploring matters in Zelda 1, it means fuck all in BOTW.
>>637564893TP Zelda is so gorgeous. BotW Zelda was cute but they ruined her on TotK with that haircut.
>>637566954Yeah last time I checked oot didn't have an epic horse duel on a stone bridge above a chasm
>cut content TP will never be real
Are we ever reaching these levels of KINO again?
>>637542749Same. I love how TP gradually builds up from cozy village stuff into this grand quest.youtube.com
>>637572083Oh that game you never played until after you played the other games, cool
>>637577236>unused shadow beastthat's just a mockup model for the final one, it uses all the same animation files
>>637526102SOUNDS LIKE TS TIME TO PLAY IT AGAIN THANK YOU FAGGOT
>>637576976Haircut enhanced her actually, much cuter.
>>637577338Man, TP had some really cool moments. It's just a crying shame the game was so easy. That bridge duel only takes 2 spin slashes, and the fight never gets more difficult anyway. You give link his most advanced sword moveset in a 3d Zelda, then make all the enemies the most basic ever, with negative health.
If someone were to start a project in Unity meant to mimic old school Zelda games, how many of you fags would be interested in helping?I can code
>>637577236if totk had this artstyle I might stop hating it. Maybe I should spend 10 years making a texture overhaul
>>637575734>no free-roaming, gotta wait for the plot to explore other areasNot entirely true but TP does still fuck this up. It does bottleneck you until you get the Master Sword, but then the world you should have been able to access up to that point almost entirely opens up aside from a few item gates. That's not particularly great because TP holds its hand for too long and then plays it all at once, and subsequently unlocking Gerudo Desert and Snowpeak doesn't really mitigate much. The game basically opens up big time once, a third of the way in, and hopes that's enough.
>>637576879>THE GAME DOES HAVE A PATH> THE FIRST 3 DUNGEONSYou can do way more than that out of order, but you wouldn't know, guidetranny> THAT'S THE REASON WHY THEY'RE NUMBEREDAh, just like OoT, WW, TP and SS?They are numbered because a suggestion is needed, nothing tells you where you will find 1 or 3, and all but 4 and 7 can be found without entering a dungeon, again, you just don't know because you only play with guides> Dungeon 6 is more difficult than dungeon 2.And 7, 8 and endgame, but it still is called 6> Whereas in BOTW all the fucking divine beasts are the same baby tiered difficulty. lmao, clearly for BotW it was intended to got zora, rito, goron, gerudo, because of both the terrain, area of NPCs telling you about their cities and such, there is still a suggested order and you can advance one without finishing others, LIKE IN ZELDA 1 and unlike 3D zelda, just because you obey like a little bitch whatever the game tells you doesn't mean the game gives you no freedom> Why there's no dungeon items. Runes, retard>BOTW has 0 progression What are hearts?Items?waepons?Even knowledge about the mechanics?These are all progression, just not linear>an arbitrary checklist that means fuck allWhat do you even mean?the shitty memories? I think I skipped them> Beating the dungeons, and exploring matters in Zelda 1, it means fuck all in BOTW.>what are the bosses on the sanctum>What are the fucking BEAMS thrown at ganonAnd even then, you are only looking at zelda 1 and botw as checklists, the actual experience of the games is remarkably similarBECAUSE YOU ARE NOT FORCED INTO ANYTHING UNLIKE 3D ZELDA
>>637577236they removed the scarier ghosts too. Iwata checked the game's progress in '05 and told the people working on the game to change it so it wasn't too dark
>>637577428Played years before BotW and actually really hyped about the latter because of how much it was taking from it, on those old and past years I thought BotW would have been placed after Zelda 2 on the """"""fallen""""""" timeline
>>637577236I did not need to see this.
>>637572407It was a joke and yes you are retarded.
>>637578190funny because I always wanted it to be on the tp timeline, then nintendo btfo the timeline completely
>>637568213get a life virgin lmao.didnt read btw.
>>637578491shut the fuck up you twink
is TP really as easy as everyone says? I've been playing games my entire life and I'm no stranger to difficultly, but if it's a total cakewalk and impossible to die then that might put me off
>>637578784Yes, and I say this as someone who champions the game. Enemies do next to no damage outside of rare circumstances, and even if you do see a game over screen because you decided to put the controller down for 2 minutes, all that happens is that you're sent back to the beginning of the room you died in. On top of all this Link hits like a truck with the default sword and the Master Sword is even stronger. I'd recommend playing HD on Hero Mode with the Ganondorf amiibo if you can, removing heart drops and playing at 4x damage output makes the game feel a bit better. One thing I will say is that there are very occasional puzzle moments that are well designed, and the Cave of Ordeals is a genuinely fun challenge. But like 95% of TP is Super Princess Peach levels of piss easy.
>>637527463Agatha mogs that britslag nulda so hard
>>637578032>You can do way more than that out of order, but you wouldn't know, guidetranny>They are numbered because a suggestion is needed, nothing tells you where you will find 1 or 3, and all but 4 and 7 > clearly for BotW it was intended to got zora, rito, goron, gerudoYou're just being a disingenuous hypocrite in your seething now. >BOTW has 0 progression >What are hearts?Not neededItems?Not neededwaepons?Nigger, they break. How the fuck are you even trying to insinuate weapons are progression in BOTW?Even knowledge about the mechanics?Oh so BOTW is now inspired by every goddamn game on the planet. Great argument dipshit. >an arbitrary checklist that means fuck all>What do you even mean?Fucking EVERYTHING you retard. Outside of the Great Plateau you need to absolutely fuck all other than run to the castle and beat Ganon. I know because when I first played BOTW, I ran to the fucking castle, which is pinpointed on the fucking map (something which you seem to hate considering your seething about zelda 1 having no map/direction), on 3 hearts and beat ganon while naked to see if you could. And I did. I killed him. I got the completion star before even talking to a single NPC outside of the king. All the "progression" after that point was worthless and did fuck all.Face it. Zelda 1 and BOTW are completely different games, and no matter how much you or Aonuma copes, that will always be the case.
>>637579291ah, shame. I was aware of the Ganon amiibo HD stuff but I'm a purist autist and not a fan of the visuals in either the TP or WW HD port I'll just have to deal with it, if the atmosphere and everything else is good then fuck it
>>637526338WW made me realise the series was on a dive from a wide peak ending with MM. TP hit the bottom. Botw is crawling out of the pit, hoping for light. Totk is doing a backflip and face planting at the bottom again. jk I'm loving totk and albw was good too
TP had the best integration of NPCs into the main storyline of any Zelda. It was great to see other characters change as the game went on, and not just Midna either.>Your mentor from your home village shows up later as a knight trying to save Hyrule>The kidnapped kids becoming more responsible in Kakariko>King Bulblin coming to respect you after beating him the final time>even just random NPCs in Hyrule Town acknowledging all the shit you're doing to help
Disgusting Reddit thread
>>637579868>ending with MMGetting real tired of the Oracles not getting their fair shake.
Aonuma saying that BotW / TotK are the new format of Zelda makes me wonder if old-school fans will get thrown a bone at least let Grezzo make something new, even if it's 2D
>>637579850There is a 4k texture pack going around for the gamecube version if you emulate it.
>>637526102I just play Okami whenever I want to play wolf zelda.
>>637580751>>637579850It's not complete, but it's somethinghenrikomagnifico com/zelda-twilight-princess-4k. (it's a patreon link, use kemono (dot) party to get it)
>>637560876Agitha a cute
>>637526231what do you mean "now"? lurelin and gerudo village were both in botw are were the best populated areas in the game
>>637579819Lmao, literally mindbroken
>>637526102Literally the only game in the entire franchise where Link is actually cool and has a character arc
>>637564648So it's not representative of the whole game even a little bit?
>>637581634Tbf, Link going from OoT to MM is pretty cool. Despite him speaking 0 words, being able to use the hylian shield as a child and doing flips while jumping shows a lot about his character. Helps that MM felt more adult themed as well. We'll never get that again
>>637543772>F U JEFF U UGLY FAT PIECE OF $HIT GO F'in FALL OFF A BRIDGE AND DIE N1ggERHe's... literally me...
>>637526191i'm retarded by the way
>>637581634WW had a character arc. He might not be cool but he shows more emotion that TP Link
Honestly my one genuinely big complaint towards TP (otherwise my absolute favorite Zelda game) is the Zant switch out for Ganon. in my perfect world the game would have 2 dungeons and a mini-hyrule field esque area inside the Mirror, let the player and Link really SEE the Twilight realm, and how utterly fucked Zant has made it. Having him just be at the end of the easiest dungeon in the game, and at that point already having been downgraded to 2nd big bad in favor of Ganon, really hurt. The Twili in general are some of the coolest characters the Zelda team has drawn up, it's such a shame we haven't had any sort of follow up involving them.
>>637581956The shoulder-belt was a big glow-up to his design too, they basically just forgot to put it in Ocarina (3D added it to both young and adult Link) but it felt like character development at the time.
>>637580464Man I just want real dungeons. I'm fine with the shrines to get hearts and stamina for the rest of the series, whatever. But at least do something better than divine beasts all over again.
>>637528253>Not using items in combatI swear, why no one plays these games properly?
>>637576369I played TW a few weeks ago for the first time and i have to agree with that dude but it's not like a cancerous 4 hour tutorial such as RDR2
>>637526102My favourite Zelda
>>637585548TP's viable item interactions are relatively small in number. The sword really is the best weapon 90% of the time. Some interactions are underrated though - using the gale boomerang to clean keese up in the Cave or Ordeals is surprisingly good.
>>637575734>LINEAR BAD!!!!fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck offfreedom is not automatically goodi hate all of you retards
>>637560876Marry ilia, SEXO con adult midna, Zelda as my concubine
>>637585989Forgive them, Twilight Princess is among the last generation of actually good linear games. They don't know any better.
>>637585989Linear is absolutely bad in a series about exploration, you fucking retard. TP is garbage and so is your taste.
>>637586565You don't understand how linearity works in Zelda games, and i do believe you might be autistic
>>637568213>Then, at some point in the game, you realize that the game blew its load within the first few hoursThis can be held true to botw but for totk I've kept getting surprised over and over again, be it environmental aspects like low gravity or shit like an unexpected enemy in a certain place or even floormaster/pg.
>>637586879I've been playing Zelda games longer than you've been alive, TPshitter. Glad the series left you mouthbreathers behind.
>>637586565>series about explorationSeries about exploring to find the one or two ways you can actually meaningfully progress at any given time, you mean?Yes, TP could use less direct guidance from point A to point B. Yes, its overworld could be slightly more interconnected. No, it does not need to be any less linear overall.
>>637581209I mean a town that's filled with African American looking people, the even talk like regular city people, you gotta look at them on your own, it's fucking crazy
>>637575734>linear as fuck and tons of handholdingIt’s linear, sure. Can’t think of anything that held your hand >cringeworthy cutscenesName one>little to no innovation, doesn't even improve the formula from the N64 gamesHidden skills, snowboarding, actual swimming instead of just sinking or diving for 5 seconds, rassling, bow scope, fishing lures, FINISHING BLOW>Link isn't as mobile as in previous games (Wind Waker Link could crouch and hide)Irrelevant >filler tear segmentsKinda shitty yah>shitty tryhard atmosphere for grimdark niggersBuzzword>too much expository dialogueOh god, is that…PLOT????>artstyle that aged like milkOpinion >swimming feels awfulIt doesn’t at all>non-existent difficulty even by 3D Zelda standardsNo Zelda has ever been hard, ww was just as bad>final boss was predictable and boringAnd yet Holla Forums and all Zelda fans were shocked at it not being zant >dungeon design is basically on railsNot at all>worst looking bokoblins in the seriesWho cares>most enemies are beaten in pretty much the same way: look for an opening, rapidly hit the B button until it recovers from the assault and guards again, rinse, repeatWow, same as every Zelda game>crappy story, failed to explain anything in a compelling mannerSee final boss>NPCs are soulless and not engaging, you can't even interact with most people in Castle TownYes you can?>worst battle music in the series, which also ruined the Midna's Lament track>barely any sidequestsWho cares>basically no interconnected areas except for Lake HyliaWho cares>Death Mountain Area is a fucking line with no branches or secret areasWho cares>item usage was limited>potions, fairies, upgrades, and the like are useless and offer no variety???>babby tier puzzles (open the door by shooting an obviously placed eye switch)Every Zelda game>both the overworld & villages are shallow and not dynamicOpinion>no free-roaming, gotta wait for the plot to explore other areasEvery Zelda game
>>637586936I shit my fucking pants the first time Phantom Ganon's hands appeared, the semi-random Phantom Ganons out in the overworld more than make up for Guardians going missing
>>637587208>muh item gatingGetting a useless mcguffin you found in a dungeon to use on telegraphed lock-and-key "use item here" points and nothing else was never compelling and there's a reason people wanted it gone after SS. But you were too young to remember that.
>>637587619>and there's a reason people wanted it gone after SS. But you were too young to remember that.Because the Wii generation was dumb as fuck. So as a result, Nintendo boiled puzzles down to "use one of the three abilities you have that can solve puzzles".
>>637587619>it was never compellingand that's why there's an entire genre of them, right?that's why one of the other acknowledged best games of all time directly lifted it to start that genre?
>>637587147And Zelda have been using the same linear exploration formula since ALTTP. I take it back, you are not autistic, you are 100% retarded
>>637587796Yeah I'm sure that was it, it's all the shitty dumb retard Wii zoomers' fault that items were so situational in games that predate the Wii that they were worthless in normal play. It's way worse that we now have a small number of tools you're using constantly.
>>637588062Yes, I agree that dumbing it down was worse instead of increasing the utility of a variety of items. Wiitards can't comprehend this however. The spinner will always be more memorable than... making ice pillars.
>>637526102This is what killed the series for me. I stopped playing Zelda after Twilight Princess. It was the epitome of bland, soulless nintenslop.
>>637588203Hello! You seem to have made an error in your assessment of my post; I did not agree with you at all, and I thought you were a knuckle-dragging ape for trying to blame a specific window of time for, quote, "everything going wrong!" It's a common mistake.
>>637587796You clearly weren't around to see the discourse about SS at the time, zoom zoom. Its forced linearity was unanimously panned by everyone and their mom, especially series veterans.If useless one-note items are your thing go back to playing garbage.>>637587861Metroidvania games, or good ones anyway, have plenty of item utility beyond gate unlocking you retard.
>>637588203spinner was more useful in hyrule warriors than it was in twilight princess desu
>>637588359>Metroidvania games, or good ones anyway, have plenty of item utility beyond gate unlocking you retard.And so do Zelda games. I thought you just considered all item use the game is actually designed to EXPECT out of you to be "useless gate unlocking". You know, like most open world fellators: "If the game actually expects me to do a specific thing, it's linear and boring".
>>637575734>>linear as fuck and tons of handholding>>cringeworthy cutscenes>>little to no innovation, doesn't even improve the formula from the NES games>>Link isn't as mobile as in previous games (Zelda II Link could crouch and jump)>>filler segments>>shitty tryhard atmosphere for grimdark niggers>>too much expository dialogue>>artstyle that aged like milk>>swimming feels awful>>non-existent difficulty even by 2D Zelda standards>>final boss was predictable and boring>>dungeon design is basically on rails>>worst looking zoras in the series>>most enemies are beaten in pretty much the same way: look for an opening, rapidly hit the B button until it recovers from the assault and guards again, rinse, repeat>>crappy story, failed to explain anything in a compelling manner>>NPCs are soulless and not engaging, you can't even interact with most people in The Dark World>>worst dungeon music in the series>>barely any sidequests>>basically no interconnected areas except for Death Mountain>>Lost Woods Area is a fucking line with no branches or secret areas>>LITERALLY A FUCKING LINE>>item usage was limited>>potions, fairies, upgrades, and the like are useless and offer no variety>>babby tier puzzles (open the door by shooting an obviously placed eye switch, woooow)>>dull soundtrack>>both the overworld and villages are shallow and not dynamic>>no free-roaming, gotta wait for the plot to explore other areas
>>637526102OoT > TP > WW > SSdon't care about the restniggers tongue my anus
>>637588331I don't care, I'm smarter than you and have better taste so I repurposed your post to agree with mine.>>637588359I was around, I'm 30 and you're broccoli-haired golem. I don't have to be happy that Nintendo panders to retards like you that can only keep track of three tools at a time.
>>637588691>And so do Zelda games.Rarely in 3D Zelda games, and especially not TP.
>>637588843You were playing Toilet Piss in diapers while the original LoZ was my first game. Again, glad the series left you mouthbreathers behind.
>>637533959>>637530701>>637530787nigga I don't give a shit, if i wanted hard mode I'd play some Eurojank beat 'em up. When I play Zelda games I want to style on bitches. I want to helm splitter IronKnuckles until they throw their armor off and do that kino fencing move. I want to swordfight on horseback until I jump onto the other guy's boar and steal, then pelt him to death with dynamite arrows. I want to kill a giant flaming skull with a beyblade.U in the wrong thread niggas.
>>637559192god i forgot about the fishing
>>637589031And now you're still in diapers at 25, defending BotW 1.5 while it's paused on another screen because it's boring.
Twilight Princess bros... you DID play Pandora's Tower instead of Skyward Sword right?
>>637589031>You were playing Toilet Piss in diapers while the original LoZ was my first game. Again, glad the series left you mouthbreathers behind.
>>637588359>Its forced linearity was unanimously panned by everyoneRetards maybe, linearity is good and SS took steps towards making the gameplay outside of dungeons better. BotW and BotW2 just made everything shit.>>637588893WW did it right, TP had the godlike sword moveset, and SS expanded movement and shield parries as well as making Hero Mode standard, they just had to add those altogether. Instead we got Ubisoft's Creed: Nintendo Edition
>>637588893The slingshot, bombs, goron bracelet, boomerang, hookshot/longshot, bow, and elemental arrows all had plenty of utility outside of their prescribed puzzle uses.
>>637589260Is this idiot>>637589031for real? Does he knows Zelda games have been linear since 1992?
>>637589260Nah, if I was at home right now I'd be playing the GOTY instead of listening to you spew diarrhea about "muh item gating" and shilling actual boring games like TP because it was your first Zelda, zoomie.
Is there a way to emulate the GameCube version in widescreen? Using the widescreen hack in Dolphin breaks too much stuff, the water on the edges of the screen gets stretched, reflections are doubled up and completely broken, and you can see characters pop in and out of existence in cutscenes because that part would usually be unseen.I can deal with the last part, but the completely busted water and reflections makes the widescreen hack unusable for me.
>>637589403>bombsTrue as bomb arrows>hookshotMaybe for one enemy>elemental arrows>TPWhat?
>>637589985You said "3D zelda games" in general. I went with OoT.For TP I still used regular arrows, the clawshot, regular bombs, the gale boomerang, and bomb arrows fairly liberally.
>>637589960Just play in 4:3 zoom zoom. If not, I found a reddit thread with a code to unmirror the Wii version: reddit.com
>>637589403Nearly all of these except for the hookshot are normal ass weapons that every Zelda game has, including the new ones.
>WW's most panned part is the most nonlinear part, the triforce hunt- because it is boring and longwinded no matter how you fucking slice it>TP's most panned part is the start, which would be boring and longwinded and would be no matter how linear it was, and it's fucking ugly and bad-sounding too with the repeated twilight sections>SS has the most obnoxious writing and visuals the series has ever seen, puzzle design that almost validates the complaint about pre-BotW puzzles, and its one open area is genuinely fucking empty except for one-off chests and entrances to more linear experiencesBut surely the linearity is the problem!Fuck you. Fuck all of you.
>>637588843>>637589031>>637589260>>637589659>zoomers arguing with each other about who's the bigger zoomerShut up retards. If you were born after 1991 you don't know anything about Zelda.
>>637590584t. 2003 zoomer overcompensating
>>637590584Thankfully, I'm 33.Fuck 90's Zeldafags.
>>637573154Nobody owned the fucking Wii U.
>>637590629>n-n-no uIs that the best you can manage? Pathetic.
>>637589659If you were at home, you'd be changing your diapers in between ensuring consenus on Holla Forums over BotW 1.5
>>637590527>he's too young to remember why people didn't like the triforce hunt in WWHint: it had nothing to do with nonlinearity.
>>637590814>zoomie hates the eternal btfo I win button that is no uRIP, broccoli hair
>>637590825Take your meds, TPshitter.
>>637590584>>637590629>>637590686>>637590814>>637590950I'm a zillennial and all of you are retards. Zelda didn't go to shit until SS.
>>637590897>he's too stupid to see my pointIf the worst part of WW has nothing to do with how linear or nonlinear it is, then clearly WW has bigger issues than being "linear" you fucking retard.
Did some eceleb say TP was bad?
>>637589369>WW did it rightlolLMAO even
>>637526102i'm 34 and this game was trash
>>637591020Change your diaper, BotWastrel
>>637591190WW's biggest issue is precisely that it was linear in an openly structured map, in addition to all the cut content. It unironically would have been better if it wasn't set in the sea considering its means of progression.
>>637591595You sure do like that word but I guess I'm not surprised a TPansy would fantasize about people in diapers.
>>637591236Bandwagon zoomers are just mad that the Zelda they latched onto (BotW/TotK) isn't as fondly remembered as ANY older ZeldaThey've been pissing and crying about any old game from ALttP, OoT, LA, MM, TP, SS, LBW, Oracle games, PH, ST etc etc...They're angry that people see the new games as skinwalkers acting like Zelda
>>637591771Says the special boy who brought diapers up in the first place in a fit of obvious projection.
>>637591848Says the goober who keeps repeating "diapers" because an user mentioning the word one time triggered his fantasy.
>>637591608WW's biggest issue is that it has five, MAYBE six and a half dungeons of content spread out over five dungeons, a couple mini-dungeons, and the triforce hunt, injecting far too much downtime into what could have been more concentrated, unique experiences.
>>637592031It's no fantasy, it is your unfortunate reality.
>>637560876Where's big tits?
>>637592048Glad you agree with me.
>>637592105>the TP diaperboy is still fantasizing about diapers
was Zant an incel?
>>637592206On the contrary.If it were open they'd probably have felt obligated to populate the overworld even more, leaving most of the game's content as small scattered bullshit.
I always thought Twilight Princess is great desu the only thing that I don't like is the beginning is relatively slow and the magic armor is completely useless which is a shame, but those are just minor flaws that don't ruin the game.
>>637585989>freedom is not automatically goodSaid the tyranical wokeist
>>637592378If it were open there wouldn't be any dissonance between the game's map and its content, which is why WW fails. It tries to please both crowds and satisfies neither.
>>637592517>you think it's more fun when a game designs a scenario that you have to approach and solve in a certain way than when it just bends over and spreads its ass at you when you so much as breathe at it?>you're a tyrant!
>>637592519The open part is the worst part. It stands to reason that making the game even more open would be even worse. I'd rather the effort that was expended on its open parts be reappropriated to give it another full dungeon or two, maybe ramp up the difficulty overall.
>>637592558I know you really like that word, TPbabby, but you don't need to remind me of your fetish. Not everybody's into that, bro.
>>637592481TP is death by a thousand cuts for me.Half the items are useless, you can't change from day to night even though certain collectables are only available at night, you need to go to the store to swap bombs, you need to swap to Wolf form to warp, you need to find a specific plant to call Epona, Tears of Light interrupting the flow of the game, etcAll these inconveniences aren't game ruining on their own, but they add up and make the game a slog to get through.The worst thing about them is that they're issues specifically added to TP that weren't present in the previous games at all, the dev team had to actively choose to make the game worse in a number of areas for no reason.
>>637592761No one's into it more than you evidently.
>>637572083Imagine seething and getting this worked up over children’s toys LmaoWhat a pathetic rodent you truly are
>>637530316There is a boss in TP thay literally doesn't deal damage to you. A fucking BOSS not a normal enemy.
>>637592740I disagree and think that the linear parts (outside of dungeons, which could have been improved themselves) are when the game compromises itself. Wind Waker is at its best when it embraces its open, adventuristic thesis, and the Triforce hunt – alongside finding Cyclos, getting to Mother and Child island way before you need to go there, obtaining the Iron Boots and Power Bracelets, etc. – is when it really hits its stride and encourages the player to explore all of its nooks and crannies. The big problem with the hunt wasn't the main objective, it was the tedious chart deciphering.
>>637593089The dungeons could definitely have been spruced up, you're right. They needed to be harder, and more varied in presentation and puzzles. But they were a fair sight better than the areas where you were just set loose to find shit for no real reason.OoT and MM worked well because the terrain and the world design could give you clues about where interesting things might just be, inherently, without blatantly making it so that everything is somewhere obvious. WW ditches the terrain, leaving the only areas of interest as massive, obvious outliers that borderline smack you in the face. It just doesn't work near as well.
>>637592893Compared to the amount of time waste in BotW2 that's almost nothing. WW did items right, TP had the godlike sword moveset, and SS made menus seamless, expanded movement and shield parries as well as making Hero Mode standard, they just had to add those altogether. Instead we got Ubisoft's Creed: Nintendo Edition
>>637585537I've only besten the wind and water temple so far, but the lead up to both is like half a dungeon in itself. I'm pretty satisfied with the dungeon experience in TotK, unless it's all downhill from here that is.
>>637593596Well, I'd say that's more an issue of it taking place on the sea. Not much they could have done there without changing the settting entirely or at least using much bigger islands with designed terrain.
>>637592893But it also has the best dungeons of any Zelda game
>>637591802>BotW>not fondly rememberedYou're out of touch and not living in reality.
>>637594050Thus is my point: The moments when you're turned loose in WW just don't work. Not compared to previous heights of Zelda. And since you don't want to completely ditch the aesthetic, it thus becomes clear that any times you're "turned loose" would require the game to be significantly redesigned with huge dungeons or underground areas, or worsen the game significantly.Thus, when discussing "the game as it is", becoming more linear would be more of a boon than becoming less linear.
>>637594094Lol does it though? I found the dungeons in Ocarina and Majora's far more enjoyable, but maybe that's cause those games felt less restrictive.In TP it feels like Link's moving through sludge and the camera's so far up his ass that it makes all the rooms feel tiny.Again, it's small things but they affect how the whole game feels.
>>637593195>beat Wind Waker >forgot this boss even existed damn
>>637591802BotW and especially TotK are praised out the ass by most of the playerbase, including older fans. Only a loud minority is actually bitching about them.Like it or not, Zelda was inevitably going to have a more open design at some point and it's also what people have been asking for for literal decades.
>>637593873>TP had the godlike sword movesetI don't get this.What's godlike about it? First off the stabbing combo feels like garbage which sucks cause it's the one you're gonna do the most since you just hold forward.Secondly most of the extra moves you get are totally useless - the killing blow is great and addresses one of the biggest issues with WW's combat but everything else feels like padding, I'm also not a big fan of how they automated shields for the sake of the Wii controller and the shield bash move that doesn't even work on half the enemies you'd want it to.
>>637594375>The moments when you're turned loose in WW just don't workThey worked for me, when the game actually encouraged exploration, and I just explained why they work. Your complaint is more about the aesthetic than whether it's linear or nonlinear; that has nothing to do with whether the terrain is interesting.BotW is open and has designed, guided terrain all over the map.
>>637594567i wouldn't mind the bitching if it focused on framerate and the retarded approach to the story, but they haven't actually played the game and choose to cry that the tutorial section is easy, or that weapon durability still exists (which was never a problem past the first couple hours of either game)
>>637527463im not a furry so i dont find midna attractive
>>637526102Majora's Mask was better
>>637594859And I just explained why they don't work. There's no fucking "design" to them. Everything is either completely hidden behind a screen transition or wall, or visible for miles.>BotW is open and has designed, guided terrain all over the map.Only in the very barest sense of the word. BotW places giant triangles everywhere to create the urge for you to either scale them and see what's on top or go around them and see what's on the other side. It's smart-ish design, but seeing it repeated ad nauseum is, well, nauseating. And it gets worse when you realize the thing they're going to be guiding you towards is, 99.99% of the time, a challenge interchangeable with the last five you did, with a reward interchangeable with the last five you got. The entire world might be filled with moments of "design", but when the climax of all that design is going to be a repeat every time, I feel no urge to indulge in it.
>>637595451>And I just explained why they don't work. There's no fucking "design" to them.Your "explanation" focuses on the aesthetic of the game and map design, not whether the game's structure is linear or nonlinear.>Only in the very barest sense of the word.If you're a retard, maybe. BotW has far more handcrafted guided design and verticality in its own terrain than literally anything in the games that preceded it, including OoT and MM where a huge portion of the map is a big field of nothing. The grottos are also inferior versions of shrines without any interesting content.>99.99% of the time, a challenge interchangeable with the last five you didYeah, I'm not even going to entertain this obviously false statement. Combat shrines make up maybe a fifth of the total shrines in BotW.
I am in such a deep Zelda hole rn. I play TOTK almost all day and then when I get tired of that I continue my OOT-WW-TP trilogy playthrough, I have my old N64 and a Wii U for the HD versions of WW and TP. I just started WW and am so excited to get to TP. Bros. Zelda is love. Zelda is life.
>>637595451>BotW places giant triangles everywhere to create the urge for you to either scale them and see what's on top or go around them and see what's on the other sideNTA but that's a super reductive simplification of the map design in BotW. Triangles bely the principle of finding content but in terms of actual terrain the Gerudo highlands are nothing like Hyrule Field which is nothing like Faron which is nothing like Akkala etc. in terms of structure which is quite intricate.
>>637594567>millions of flies are eating the shit and enjoying it, why aren't you?>>637594273Stop watching shitty eceleb faggot "retrospectives" and basing your view of the world on them stupid zoomer
>>637596754>millions of fliesAnd you're a miserable mosquito who would rather spend hours complaining on a taiwanese image board about a series going in a direction you don't like rather than just enjoying what you do.
>>637596121>Your "explanation" focuses on the aesthetic of the game and map design, not whether the game's structure is linear or nonlinear.And you're writing off visibility as "aesthetic".>BotW has far more handcrafted guided design and verticality in its own terrain than literally anything in the games that preceded it"Handcrafted guided design" i.e. "we put a bokoblin shrine at the base of this hill". Wow, what design. How many enemy camps really NEEDED to be in the specific spot where they were? Couldn't these two camps on mountains with similar slopes swap places? Very little of BotW actually makes use of its terrain, it expects you to justify the things it put there.>this obviously false statementRegular shrines are interchangeable with one another too. None of them build on the concepts laid down by another. None of them use a tool unlocked in another. None of them are particularly difficult or easy. The only exceptions are the ones on the plateau where you unlock new runes, and the ones that are at the end of sidequests- which are, in fairness, usually pretty fun, because the sidequests that end in shrines know they have to be a bit more involved and flavorful than usual to make up for the lack of an actual shrine inside.>>637596685The thing is, what's actually fucking IN the gerudo highlands? When I went there in my playthrough, they were notably near fucking barren. I remember being confused at how goddamn little there was- there wasn't even as many bullshit enemy camps to slog through. I thought something might happen at some later story point to open things up, but I didn't wind up coming back.Akkala has the citadel, that I can remember the name of and thinking "wow that actually looks important", but I don't recall actually going there because it wasn't as hard to reach as it looked so it just sort of happened and was over with.I don't recall Faron at all. I know the name, not the terrain.
>>637593596>OoT and MM worked well because the terrain and the world design could give you clues about where interesting things might just be, inherentlyNot really. They're just big open fields with hallways coming out of them, not exactly genius map design.
>>637594682>What's godlike about it?Literally all the Hidden Skills in TP are useful, and enemies are much better at defending themselves than in BotW. Helm Splitter is strong but wouldn't oneshot lizalfos and didn't do shit to dinalfos or aeralfos, plus is mostly one-on-one. Back Slice, Spin Attack and Jump Attacks gave you different methods to set up ending blow against different enemies. Mortal Draw was a somewhat risky 1v1 trump card. Great Spin Attack really encouraged you to go no damage. Ball and Chain was an often strong alternative to the sword.>it's the one you're gonna do the mostPlease, PLEASE don't suck this bad at a fucking Zelda game. > I'm also not a big fan of how they automated shields for the sake of the Wii controllerYeah that was a downgrade from WW.
>>637597003>Why yes I am a proud fly eating shit with the rest of the massesThank you for confirming
>>637596121>BotW has far more handcrafted guided design>no stamina management because of the pause menu when SS already did it better>shitty bokoblin camps>"EQUIP HOT ARMOR IN COLD AREA"lmao>The grottos are also inferior versions of shrinesFalse equivalence, shrines comprise a big portion of BotW's content and they're shit. Older 3D Zeldas have more dungeon and enemy variety.
>>637597040>"Handcrafted guided design" i.e. "we put a bokoblin shrine at the base of this hill".No, "handcrafted guided design" as in it has a number of natural landmarks and pathways and slopes that point you in the direction that you need to go next, whether that's a shrine or a questline. The devs called it the "invisible hand" and because of that, there's so much more intricate level design in BotW than something like OoT which has a giant field as a hub – not much different than WW's sea. Not much level design at all in the old 3D games.>None of them build on the concepts laid down by another. None of them use a tool unlocked in another. None of them are particularly difficult or easy.Cool attempt at moving the goalpost, but that has absolutely nothing to do with whether they're interchangeable. They're all varied in the mechanics and puzzles that you tackle, which is more than I can say for the hidden grottos in old games. Only WW came even remotely close to putting something of worth in its grottos rather than a couple of enemies and a chest.
>>637597003>taiwanese image boardDipshit tourist can't even do the meme properly.
>>637597509Older 3D Zeldas have railroaded "dungeons" where you're sliding tiles around and shooting eye switches. BotW's Divine Beasts are infinitely better, at least mechanically.
>>637593195>>637594391Has one of the best song in the game, I also like when bosses have smaller version of them as minions
>>637597753>No, "handcrafted guided design" as in it has a number of natural landmarks and pathways and slopes that point you in the direction that you need to go nextAnd ultimately the entire game is designed to play the same no matter what direction you go next, so all of this supposedly intricate world design is pointless at best and coincidental at worst. The game is not DESIGNED to actually take advantage of any of the direction it supposedly gives you, so what's the point of the fucking direction? I thought people liked not just being pointed to the next bit of content? This is an utterly schizophrenic narrative now.>that has absolutely nothing to do with whether they're interchangeableYes it does. "Interchangeable" means they don't do anything to deserve their specific location, which no puzzle or combat shrine outside the Plateau does. None of them are placed in any sort of actual sequence, none of them expect you to understand any mechanics introduced any later than the tutorial, none of them are harder than any other- so why do they have to be where they are? A mod that randomized every shrine not tied to a quest would not alter the gameplay experience in the fucking SLIGHTEST.
>>637597970yes this time instead of sliding a tile around you slide a trunk around
>>637526102to this dayLTTP, Minish Cap, Windwaker are top 3
>>637597753>in it has a number of natural landmarks and pathways and slopes that point you in the direction that you need to go nextWho cares, this isn't your uni topography class, it's a video game, the only thing BotW is pointing you to is the next crappy shrine or bokoblin camp. >there's so much more intricate level design in BotW >dungeons are 5 shrines stapled together that can be done in any order>vs interconnected interiors where messing with one room affects the next and everything connects to a central room>which has a giant field as a hubFalse equivalence. OoT's field isn't 90% of the surface area in the game, BotW2's is. OoT has more enemies, more dungeons, more tools, and less padding/grinding to obfuscate the lack of actual content.>Not much level design at all in the old 3D gamesThere's more since it's not just a bunch of empty space, you can't trivially climb over everything and enemies could actually serve as obstacles (e.g. the Club Moblin before the Forest Temple).
>>637598351MM, LTTP, Minish Cap you mean
>>637575274Based. I bought the Wii one on launch and am just playing the cube version for the first time now
>>637597970>Older 3D Zeldas have railroaded "dungeons" where you'reNavigating interconnected interiors and fighting enemies including minibosses. BotW has not-shrines with almost no enemies and no minibosses.
I'm having a lot of fun with ToK and enjoyed BOTW but they are definitely low on my Zelda ranking.I sorely miss maps, compases, small keys, boss keys, trap rooms, and actual dungeons with item unlocks. I still thing Oracle of Seasons/Ages are peak Zelda.
>>637598161>And ultimately the entire game is designed to play the same no matter what direction you go nextYou're a disingenuous nostalgiafag. Zora's Domain and the entire quest leading up to the Lynel feels nothing like the Yiga hideout infiltration which feels nothing like following the statues through Faron or the trek through Hebra or the guided pathway to Hateno or the survival challenge at Eventide. All have their own unique challenges with terrain, weather, enemy placement, and navigation. There's no such thought put into the map/level design of the older games. It's not even close.>"Interchangeable" means they don't do anything to deserve their specific locationYes, and that's why you're spouting bullshit. A pretty big number of shrines focus on specific challenges associated with the area, and that's not even going into shrine quests. They're all varied too which is why they aren't interchangeable where it matters.
>>637598414>OoT's field isn't 90% of the surface area in the gameIt literally is a huge part of OoT's surface area, and your "quantity over quality!" argument doesn't disprove that.Anyway you're not even talking about level design anymore (which OoT doesn't have much of), just arbitrary story gating. Glad we confirmed you're a retard.
Twilight Princess managed to give me magical feelings right before I became a cynical and jaded teen, for that it'll always have a soft place in my heart.
>>637575274>on my GameCube.because I experienced the superior Wii version on Christmas morning months before your piddly little gaming shape
>>637598889>All have their own unique challenges with terrain, weather, enemy placement, and navigationThe only one with unique weather is Zora's Domain because it's always fucking raining. The rest have weather that literally doesn't matter because it's up to RNG whether weather will even happen. Terrain varies slightly but all navigation and terrain can be invalidated by climbing and gliding- except, again, zora's domain. The fact that zora's domain came first actually gave me hope for the rest of the game since it gave me significantly different gameplay just by altering a few core factors, but unfortunately they never repeated this act to such an extent. Most of the game, they leave any real unique scenario or circumstance up to chance, or place it in entirely scripted sequences like taking down the divine beasts from outside.>A pretty big number of shrines focus on specific challenges associated with the areaDoubt. Every time I walked into a shrine, its contents had little to nothing to do with its surroundings.
>>637598889>Zora's Domain and the entire quest leading up to the LynelWhat are you even referencing here? They were such pussies they didn't make the Lynel required.>feels nothing like the Yiga hideout infiltrationThe only actual content and it's a crappy stealth mission. >following the statues through Faron or the trek through Hebra or the guided pathway to HatenoYou just reworded empty space three times.>EventideThey didn't even program it properly, you can kill the Hinox before even touching the island and losing your equipment lmao. at least say the trial of the sword
For me? It's Midna.
>>637599323>The rest have weather that literally doesn't matter because it's up to RNG whether weather will even happen."Weather" doesn't just mean whether it's raining or not. Now you're sounding like you didn't even play it.>Terrain varies slightly but all navigation and terrain can be invalidated by climbing and glidingYes because climbing is literally a part of the terrain navigation in many cases. The verticality is designed around it, with various checkpoints and slopes provided you're not cheesing it with potions/food or revali's gale.>Doubt. Every time I walked into a shrine, its contents had little to nothing to do with its surroundings.Electric themed shrines are in the Gerudo area, fire themed ones are in Eldin, etc.
>>637599986>"Weather" doesn't just mean whether it's raining or not.Oh, I'm sorry, does "wear hot protection armor in hot location" count as weather now? I thought that was boring game design when OoT did it.>Yes because climbing is literally a part of the terrain navigation in many cases.It is incredibly linear and boring to climb under literally all circumstances. There was not one spot in the entire game that I felt ENGAGED climbing or gliding. My stamina bar was never challenged even though I never used stamina restoration food.>Electric themed shrines are in the Gerudo area, fire themed ones are in Eldin, etc.Okay, maybe that's true. My bad, then. Still feels like very little compared to an actual difficulty ramp and incorporation of more tools as you unlock them- like every prior Zelda game.
>>637600315>Oh, I'm sorry, does "wear hot protection armor in hot location" count as weather now? I thought that was boring game design when OoT did it.Huh? I never said that was boring game design when OoT did it. But not everyone will know where the gear is, which means most of the time they'll be forced to craft potions or food instead to get through severe weather – things they may not have the materials or recipes for. It's soft gating but it's still a thing you have to seek out to circumnavigate.>There was not one spot in the entire game that I felt ENGAGED climbing or gliding. My stamina bar was never challenged even though I never used stamina restoration food.Okay, then that was your experience. I was engaged with it myself because I had to manage the stamina bar while climbing on a number of occasions, keeping in mind that I deliberately didn't just stock up on potions and didn't use revali's gale because I felt that kinda cheapened what the game was going for.>Still feels like very little compared to an actual difficulty ramp and incorporation of more tools as you unlock themThere is a difficulty ramp with intricacy but it's not super noticeable. There isn't any linear progression if that's what you're asking for, but that doesn't mean there isn't any thought behind shrine placement and certainly not the lead-up to them.
>>637601069>Huh? I never said that was boring game design when OoT did it.Wow, okay then. Usually when someone defends BotW they swear up and down that literally every decision OoT made was objectively bad.>But not everyone will know where the gear isI hate to use my own anecdotal experience again but the game pretty blatantly threw me at the hot/cold armor before expecting me to use them...>I was engaged with it myself because I had to manage the stamina bar while climbing on a number of occasions, keeping in mind that I deliberately didn't just stock up on potions and didn't use revali's galeDid you just use spirit orbs on almost exclusively health or what? How could you have so little stamina that any of the climbing sections actually needed you to stop and restore it? Doesn't track, not from what I experienced.>There isn't any linear progression if that's what you're asking for, but that doesn't mean there isn't any thought behind shrine placement and certainly not the lead-up to themBut the fact is that none of the shrines directly build off of one another. The level of complexity remains largely static throughout them all. It is wasted fucking potential. When I see complex mechanics I want to see them used, not because a player got exceptionally bored and decided to do something the game never comes even close to calling for but because the game has a situation where it's at least justified, if not expected.
>>637526102The forest in TP despite being more linear was more fun to explore than any forest in BotW or TotK. The massive trees of varying heights did more to spur my imagination as a kid than the dinky woods in BotW which mostly consist of trees that aren't tall and look as if they were pasted onto a random hill or valley. I just want an adventure game with giant fuck you-size trees and secrets contained within.
>>637602298yeah they were the same size tree as you get anywhere else in the game and shaped like trees that grow out in the open not like trees that grow in the woods
>>637601530Shrines build off each other in the sense that you're using your runes for different puzzles and challenges in each one. Often, even within the shrine itself there are puzzle rooms that will build off of the last puzzle room.In an older 3D Zelda game you'd get the same thing in dungeons for a few rooms before grabbing a new item, using that item for a few more rooms and grabbing the boss key. The puzzles were often much simpler as well. That's not to say there weren't exceptions (the water temple, stone temple tower, sandship, etc.) but they were pretty few and far between.
I honestly didn't like Twilight Princess that much, I even dropped it on my first playthrough and went back to finish it after a few years
>>637602780I can sort of understand where you're coming from but I can't agree. That's not at all equivalent. The uses of the runes aren't really as varied as you're claiming, and they're all quite blatantly telegraphed. If you solve the puzzles as intended, rather than deliberately doing something less efficient just because it's "creative", or practicing for hours to pull off some finicky self-launch trick, I'd argue they're pretty much exactly on the level of prior 3D Zelda puzzles.>see spot you need to reach at the top of a slope>see rolling spheres between you and spot>no water under the spheres>no metal objects>use stasis on a sphere just as it spawns>climb slopeThe game so rarely even throws multiple signals at once (i.e. metal objects AND ankle-deep water or ankle deep water AND single physics obstacles that you could hypothetically use stasis on) that you don't even have to deduce which is right. You just take the only interactive option and run with it. The fact that your use of the interactive object is more interesting is a plus, but the fact that none of these puzzles interact with EACH OTHER and none of them introduce a concept that others use in more complicated ways feels like a waste.
>>637602905I had to look up the zora prince in kakiriko because the characters in this game are so boring i legitimately forgot he existed after picking it up after i dropped it for a couple months
>>637602905That's exactly how Breath of the Wild and Spirit Tracks went for me. I loved Twilight Princess though and have cleared it multiple times over the years.
>>637603654>I can sort of understand where you're coming from but I can't agree. That's not at all equivalentIt is equivalent, if not necessarily complex.>The uses of the runes aren't really as varied as you're claimingThey very much are in the sense that they have multiple uses that go beyond one specific telegraphed "target" to open up a gated obstacle. There's no question that something like Stasis or even Magnesis is applied in an infinitely greater number of puzzle solving methods and combat strategies than the vast majority of "traditional" items.The greatest exception, ironically, is Wind Waker, and some of its own items miss the mark too.>I'd argue they're pretty much exactly on the level of prior 3D Zelda puzzles.Some shrines are on the simplistic side but many of them absolutely go beyond the old puzzles in lateral thinking. And that's just BotW, TotK makes its predecessor look like a fucking tech demo in that regard.>but the fact that none of these puzzles interact with EACH OTHER and none of them introduce a concept that others use in more complicated ways feels like a wasteAgain, that's not always true even when comparing certain shrines to the ones in or near the tutorial area. The desert region has a lot of the better ones in the game.
>>637605398>they have multiple uses that go beyond one specific telegraphed "target" to open up a gated obstacleThen I don't understand what makes that so special when the ways they're used and the ways you're cued to use them are just as telegraphed as ever. Again, you can clock what runes will be involved in a puzzle pretty much the second you lay eyes on it, and the spots you're intended to use them are ridiculously, blatantly obvious. There's only so many ways to stack metal blocks before you realize you're just stacking metal blocks again.>combat strategiesEnemies take piss all damage from bombs and physics interactions like objects smacking them, even at high speed. Launching an enemy away with stasis isn't really resolving the fight- and even if they're one of the ones you can't launch, what's the point of freezing them when no enemy save for Thunderblight Ganon moves fast enough to be a threat anyway? Cryonis is limited in where you can use it and once again, no enemy is a threat so why bother blocking them physically?Add on top of all that the fact that the entire game is built around the assumption that a blind retard who engages with none of the mechanics unless forced should be able to beat it. No combat scenario is a remote challenge even if you use only weapons and dodging. So why bother with the runes when they kill slower and take more effort?>many of them absolutely go beyond the old puzzles in lateral thinking.I guess I just happened to miss ALL OF THOSE in my playthrough. Wonderful. Not that better puzzles would've saved BotW in my eyes.>TotK makes its predecessor look like a fucking tech demo in that regardSomehow I doubt that, but I haven't played it so I won't pass judgement.>Again, that's not always trueWith how the game explicitly doesn't make enemies harder except by making them deal more hearts of damage, I struggle to believe this either, but alright, sure.
>>637603747I feel like that's not exactly the game's fault.
This was literally the game that made me stop being a Zelda fan. I hated this so much when it released.
>>637581634imagine if he actually looked like this in-game
>>637606679Fair enough. What didn't you enjoy about it user?