DNA from ancient Phoenician has European genetic marker

It means that wewuz the original Africans, which means that wewuz the real Japanese, the real Greeks, the real Jews, the real Egyptians, et cetera.

More seriously, one sample doesn't mean that all of them wuz white.
and are jumping to conclusions.

It does say that the marker was only found in hunter-gatherer populations, which probably discounts colonies.

The memes are evolving to suit our whims. Why contain it? S'cool.

Can this retarded meme die already? Egyptian upper-classes were completely Aryan.

How long before Holla Forums recognizes that any ancient civilization worth talking about has Indo-European roots?

This is the only truth of history.

Ignore salty pajeet and Wong shitposters.

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BUMP BUMP BUMP SPREAD THIS EVERYWHERE! SHUT THESE FUCKING CHIMPS UP FOR GOOD

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I thought it was already pretty well-known that Eurasia was white. Like, Egypt now is dirty brown sandniggers, but not back then. I'm not saying they were blonde aryan gods or anything, mind you. is that not common knowledge?

What the fuck? It's hard to take this seriously when it contains dumb shit like this.

No. most people think Egyptians were full blown niggers

Niggers literally think ancient Egyptians were Black. Not Arab tan, but Black. They don't understand the concept that North Africa=/= Black.

So is this whole thing with Kek resurfacing just an ancient struggle between actual white Egyptians and the Nubian-Niggers?

Yes, in fact, there have been in depth discussions on this.

HOL' ON. N-NOW, HOL' ON DER. HOL' ON DER BRUVA. WE REALLY WUZ KANGZ IN SHEEEIT?

IS THIS SERIOUS? OR DOES JUST INBREEDING IN ROYAL FAMILIES PRODUCE RECESSIVE TRAITS?

calm the fuck down it's only mtDNA, it's not unlikely that the NENA(near east and north africa) was more ""white""(aka proto-mediterranean) in the ancient past before the islamic expansion and slave trade
when I say ""white"" I'm referring to peoples somehow related to the farmers who would invade basically all of Europe in the neolithic and who are today mostly represented in south Europe
just the other day there was an article about a finding in Romania from ~30000 years ago of some person with mtDNA U6*, whose derived haplotypes are nowadays mostly found in n. Africa

I missed it then; I only saw a quick screencap of it.
Well I never though I'd give that greentext a serious thought in my life.

OF COURSE

You fail, pajeet.

Remember if it is in Africa, it's automatically Black! /s

pic related, Septimus Severus, Roman emperor born in Libya, North Africa 1800 yrs ago.

Also, a very good read:
Title: "What race were the Greeks and Romans?"
archive.is/VCaCp

This is what niggers actually believe.

Daily reminder that if anybody wants to know what inbred niggers look and behave like, simply go to any ghetto in any major American city.

The Phoenicians were interesting. Not only did they create the first alphabet, but they were the only real rivals to Rome as it developed in the ancient world. They were also of note as explorers and traders and excellent seamen, a quite advanced civilization. They were the original "merchants," but not in the meme way. They went everywhere, and traded with everyone.

The Phoenicians have always been described as Semitic, but that refers to the language, not the people. Now we see that racially they appear to be Mediterraneans, similar to Italians/Spanish/Greeks.

This was the case until Arab expansion, which, coincidentally, took the land from Christians as well.
It took white men quite a while to fight back, but all of our enemies are still butthurt over crusades.

Oh, quit being a faggot. that's not what i said at all. I know niggers didn't build the pyramids

First, I already said ITT that I thought it was common knowledge that all of the NE, N Africa was just as "white" as at least S Europe is today.

Second, what I was really commenting on the Maya thing, really. Like, I don't think the Maya were Aryans, right? I mean, that can't be what you're saying.

Gaul was actually quite a rival, until Caesar liberated it.

"liberated"

oh the irony, if it's blondish it's automatically pure n. European!!

They didn't build _the_ pyramids, but they did build pyramids. I'm not sure if Nubians are modern Ethiopians or Sudanese, but they are black. Egypt conquered the land and annexed it. Situation is probably comparable to Russia and conquest of muslim/mongol lands.

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One of the most interesting remnants that we have of the Phoencians is that purple was once seen as a royal color. The Phoenecians created a Tyrian purple dye from sea snails.

They were a very influential and somewhat mysterious people. Unfortunately, because their clash with Rome was so protracted and the Romans came to hate them so much, we don't have a lot of cultural artifacts from them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple

Also, Hannibal, one of the greatest generals in history.

The chart is from a good graphic novel called "Stand Still, Stay Silent" about post-apocalyptic Scandinavians being the only nations surviving a world-wide plague, they then return to their ancient cultures and gods. Pic related is an example.

There's also subtext of Iceland surviving the best by machinegunning refugees.

Also, cats play a key role in the lore. It's basically Holla Forums the comic.

Anyway, that's why there's the "Year 0" there.

North Africa was part of classical civilisation which was based around Mediterranean travel. Until the Muslims fucked it all up.

Great subtle joke, passing Neocon 101.

But yeah, good point, Gaul was fairly powerful. In the early days, the Etruscans stood out as well.

I'm following that on kikebook and I haven't even read any of it yet. It looks so cool so I guess I have to start reading it.

Indeed, and Romans adopted the system later on, as they did with all of their conquests they could.
There is also the case of purple as the satanic color - quite likely attributed to phoenicians, as they burned children as a sacrifice to Baal in customs only practiced by jews these days.
Oh, what am I saying, such nonsense. Everybody knows jews stopped their millenia of childslaughter in 1930s.

Nobody said that's what you were saying. If you're autistic and browse this board, you're going to need to learn how to control it.

As for the Maya, we need to come to valid conclusions as to where the new world civilizations came from.

As is well known, the mythos of the Aztecs and Mayas is that white-skinned bearded men emerged from the sea riding "serpents" and taught them everything they know about civilizations. These were the "Viracochas".

It's worth noting that full blooded amerindians do not grow beards.

This is why the Spanish were worshipped as gods upon arrival.

Additionally, simply from subjective experience, anyone who's dealt with full blooded Amerindians (such as illegal Mexican landscapers) knows these people are as stupid and void of creativity as the worst sub-saharan Africans. These people were not inventing advanced central American civilizations on their own, and they even admit this in their mythology.

The question is who first got to the new world and taught them.

Ah, we've forgotten Asian rivals, and the ones who actually managed to keep Romans at bay; Parthians/Persians, Scots, Goths, Germanics… Although it is possible Rome simply wanted to avoid overextension.

You should always be skeptical of outliers.

If if involved any kind of accomplishment, they are more likely to be Ethiopian, who are partly Caucasian, and actually a little more closely related to Mediterraneans than they are to West African niggers.

They are obviously not at white levels, but historically they were way advanced compared to other Africans.

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Hitler dubs confirm Ethiopians as honorary Aryans?

Ha ha.

In fairness, most of what we know about the Phoenecians comes from their enemies, so stories of human sacrifice need to be put in context. The victors write the stories.

Ethiopia is the only known functional kingdom in Africa built by Africans, and is known for having actual architecture every now and then. Having them copy Egyptians (especially after they were conquered) isn't far fetched.

Somalis are genetically near whites as well. Guess Islam doesn't work as well?

I've been thinking about this a whole lot lately. It really does seem as if most the world was ruled by white civilizations that just walked away when too many darkies came around. If that's truly the case, our race is screwed.

Correct, but archaeology has confirmed the child sacrifice. Hardly surprising, given that they did worship semitic polytheism. Romans didn't quite like that - and rather than merely annexing Carthage, they salted it.

Somalis are often regarded as lower than niggers, Somalis have even lower average IQs than negroids, if I'm not mistaken.

How far off are Ethiopians from Somalis?

Looking for a swede to confirm this conjecture.

you're clearly not from around here. stormfront? I've noticed you all always try to "take command" or "create credibility" by initially signalling that you are somehow in control and have been here for a long time. You should probably stop that. It reeks of shill faggotry.

I don't think that's a good question at all. Sounds like bullshit to me, tbh fam. Any retard can figure out that stacking shit makes it taller, and since IQ is stochastic, it doesn't preclude there being Amerindian geniuses, even if they are less frequent.

Arabs had 1000 years of less inbreeding when they did the conquering. Their IQ was probably at/near mediterranean level. I doubt they organized too well, but their

1:11 has the table.

You would never want to have kids with one, but it is remarkable how close some of them come to a white aesthetic.

I know child sacrifice is harder to justify, but you still need to know context. Were they picking out children at random? Beautiful, normal, healthy boys and girls? Or were they killing all the kids with Down Syndrome and other diseases?

With adult human sacrifice, you also get into questions like if they were guilty of a crime, or prisoners of war, or volunteers who were suicidal because of life hardships.

Back in the day sickly babbys didn't live to see their first birthday. Eugenics occurs naturally if you let it.

Somalians have always looked more niggerish, so it is worth asking where they were getting samples.

That is a big problem because of inbreeding. Lebanon would probably be close to European levels of development if not for the inbreeding of the 60% of their population that is Muslim.

ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthaginians-really-did-sacrifice-their-children

Infants and children, boys and girls.

whites have been bred out by darker races for a very very very long time.

That is true, but they may have killed them off in regular sacrifices rather than just putting them outside to die exposed to the elements.

Yeah, it's weird.

And then the darker races steal white history while accusing whites of doing the same. It's baffling.

Weak children make weak offerings. Jews were notorious for sacrificing weak animals, or the cheapest possible offering, rather than greater or worthy.

It's well known that Phoenicians were mixed Hittite/Mitani(Indo-Europeans) with Caananites(Semitics).
The thing is that they were culturally onky Semitic, so people assume that they were pure Semites as well, which is wrong.

"This was not a common event, and it must have been among an elite because cremation was very expensive, and so was the ritual of burial.
Ah, but of course.
archive.is/sjprD

That is sort of a modern take of what sacrifice was. By that logic, it wouldn't make sense for the person making the sacrifice to eat food offerings, because the gods would feel cheated somehow, but they often did.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korban

Thanks for the link.

Okay, that number is pretty small.

Anyone have a link for that website that lets you see scholarly articles that are behind a paywall? I can't find it. I want to read the paper behind this article, the DOI # if you can get it yoruself:

S0003598X00049966

If education weren't shti everyone would know north africa was European that ended with the invasion of muds.

Snowniggers and niggers fighting over Pharaos who lived in North Africa.

Seriously this shit is embarassing. They were north african mixed with south european genes and genes from the east most likely. Put emotion aside and apply minimal geography.

They had European genes yes, but Pharaos and Pyramids are a mystery. Is this the "aryan" version of we wuz kangs?

Retards ruining a perfectly good meme.

Man, we keep typing past one another.

Yeah, I don't know how true that is in terms of other cultures being so different. The Jews managed to keep their culture for thousands of years whereas memories of how we did things in the ancient world was ravaged by Christianity and simply hostile civilizations fighting one another. We can observe how Jews did things, and it is different from what we imagine from the rest of the ancient world.

It is likely that there was a lot of what we would call cheating throughout the history of sacrifice. Also, Christians took a great deal of pride in stopping sacrifice, and as the victors they told the stories of it being common and horrendous.

gen.lib.rus.ec/

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Aryans were never blonde or blue eyed to begin with, they looked like Southern Europeans according to genetic studies.

"The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence."

I repeat

"Overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European."

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

sci-hub.bz
sci-hub.cc

sci-hub.io got rekt.

Cheers

If anyone wants the academic paper on this
>>>/pdfs/3992

Aryans is a huge term though. It includes a lot of peoples.

I mean it's obvious south Europeans even back in ancient times were more dark haired and dark eyed, at least more so than the north.

During the world wars they certainly were able to give Italy the boot.

Of all the rapefugees you hear about they always seem to be from Syria, Iraq, Morocco, Somalia, or Libya. Don't seem to be many coming from Ethiopia. My cousin who was doing field work in that region says that Ethiopia, Kenya, and Tanzania seems to be making real efforts to not be shitty countries.

Then, could you explain Light Hair and Light Eyes associated with European genes in: India, Iran, the Middle East, Central Asia and even China?
You're assuming that the Yamnaya were the Indo-Europeans, which is not certain.
Let's not forget that the Greeks described the Scithians(people who lived from the Balkans to Central Asia, all along to Bactria) as being the "Most Fair of them all, with Blue eyes and Blond/Red Hair".

Yeah, Ethiopia seems to be one of the few stable African countries on that continent. Maybe after the Imperium Europa comes about they can have a large plot of land to themselves. Whites get the rest though.

Lighter features were pretty rare historically.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon

The have found red hair in Neanderthals going very far back.

Maybe just genetic drift of the past 10,000 years? Whites historically seem to be one of the most restless races, given to migrations and an obsession with exploring.

But that is because they haven't changed at all. They are quite literally frozen in time to the time period where they killed Jesus and were vanquished by the Romans, 0-70 AD.
Sure, they have new hat designs and they steal newer names.

I can only speak for Finland, but.. Swedish conquest destroyed native literacy. This was possible only because the ability to read was concentrated to chiefs and shamans. It's the same with Romans and druids!
It also reminds me of the late Bronze age civilizations and their fall; a foreign army decimated the central governing organ and the whole thing fell within a few decades.

Novgorodian Finns, even servants and children, could write with cyrillic in 11th/12th century. Rather than the spread of Christianity (which brought the cyrillics in the first place), blaming each nation / state is far more productive. The catholics likely burned orthodox churches as well, places where writings were certainly used.

Finnish word for slave, "orja" derives from "Aryan".. Could be why Swedes slandered us so, and reduced our history to a question mark. Luckily archaeology has found quite a many swords from the time period before Swedish conquest.

I presume most of the eradication is on similar. But on the other hand, we know plenty of things from the hellenists.

quite a few*

Guess I'd better head to bed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#Physical_appearance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies#Genetic_links
The Tarim mummy findings have already been deemed "problematic".

1. fair features at the frequencies we observe nowadays are fairly recent even in n. Europe
even mesolithic hunter gatherers from n. europe were mostly swarthy and dark haired, exception being blue eyes which are found at a very high frequency in Europe after the last glacial maximum(not before, mind you, and we do have completed DNA from pre-LGM Europe), in particular, the terminus ante quem for blue eyes appearing is before ~14000 years ago(hunter gatherer from Italy circa 14000 had the required mutation and was most likely blue eyed).

2. white skin was present(meaning the genes were found) in the farmers who invaded Europe from west anatolia in the neolithic, and since those farmers have some kind of link with the near east, it's possible the near east had them as well at a frequency which is unknown since we do not have complete DNA from the ancient middle east, while paleolithic Europe is much richer in ancient DNA so we can draw some picture about it
unfortunately the climate of the near east and n.africa doesn't favor the preservation of a sequentiable DNA in the remains we sometimes find(like in this case, they only were able to extract mtDNA unless something new is coming up)

now the frequency of fair features the other hand is an issue, we know white skin was selected in s. Europe not just for the climate but mostly because of the diet, so the near east might have undergone such selection as well and ended up in the classical age being at least at s. European frequencies

the eastern branch of the proto-IE was indeed more fair, but we are talking bronze age here and the eastern branch was not the one who invaded Europe the most
the Yamnaya peoples indeed were for the very most R1b, with R1a which I think was only found recently among them
R1a on the other hand seems to be linked with this eastern branch, and indeed R1a is a partial marker for blondness in Europe, but it isn't really spread except for eastern Europe
the Yamnaya being the IE is the current most accepted hypothesis and even the anatolian hypothesis, which was the only one who competed, seems outdated

Real Indo-Europeans from steppe had brown hair and brown eyes, and tanned Mediterranean skin according to genetic studies.

Yamanaya Indo-Europeans did not have any genetic allies for blue eyes or blond hair (HERC2/OCA2), only Scandinavian hunter-gatherers did who were not Indo-Europeans.

sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

What happened was, Indo-Europeans mixed with Scandinavian hunter-gatherers and then spread out again in different waves, mixing with various other populations like they mixed with Scandinavian hunter-gatheres.

Europeans are mix of Neolthic farmers, Western European hunter-gatherers and Yamnaya Indo-Europeans (mix of Eastern European hunter-gatherers + Cacucaus hunter-gatherers)

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

When the New World took its slaves from West Africa, we really got the worst of the worst of the continent. They in between in terms of intelligence, ahead of groups like the Capoids and Pygmies, but they might be the most violent race on the planet.

It would be far better to have simple & diminutive Hadza and Capoids and Pygmies as neighbors.

The Ancient Levant was genetically far more "white" before Islamonigger bedouins spread out of their desert.

journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316

inb4 "muh kangs maymay" from analravaged MENA autists

There was also a Northeast Asian component, today most evident in groups like Finns and Sami, though found in virtually all Europeans.

blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/09/across-the-sea-of-grass-how-northern-europeans-got-to-be-10-northeast-asian/

Yes and they were related to Neotlhic farmers of Europe who had pale skin but dark hair and eyes.

Western-European hunter-gatherers had dark skin but universally had blue eyes.

Scandinavian hunter-gatherers had blonde hair, blue eyes and very pale skin.

Indo-Europeans (mix of Eastern European hunter gatherers + Cacucuaus hunter-gatherers) had brown hair, brown eyes and slightly darker skin than Mediterraneans.

Average Europeans are mix of all these ancestry components. None of these ancient components exist in "pure" form anywhere.

Yes, Uralic population, they mixed with native Scandinavian hunter-gatherers who had blonde hair, blue eyes and very pale skin.

They were also in Scandinavia and Baltics way before Indo-European invasion from steppe.

Does anyone know when and if they are going yo release King Tut's DNA results?

lol this newfag

this

Judaism today is all spooky magic and elitist parasitism. The only way to trace this back to pre-christian times is to try to say that it had always been the "esoteric" doctrine, and that everything you read in the OT is all just the "exoteric" doctrine, including, ironically, a prohibition very magical nonsense that supposedly was always there

I don't know what you're blabbering about either, Judaism is one of the oldest monotheistic religions and as such is older than Christianity, period.

He is stating that "The religion practiced by the hebrews" and "the religion known as judaism" are not the same.

This is funny as fuck

this

What Jews practice today is nothing like the monotheistic religion practiced by the ancient israelites, of which you speak. Talmudism is all spooky magic and elitist parasitism. They even put little wizard stamps on all of their official secret skoopy books

hello newfriend. Stay a while

Ok, so kikes evolved their kike religion, it's still called Judaism and it's still older than Christianity. Really don't see the logic here. Maybe you should look up what Judaism encompasses.

Sage for off-topic, nice thread OP.

That is my conclusion, as well. Reading about ancient civs, the connections through Indo-Aryan languages, Europoid mummies and skeletons, sunwheels, pyramids, serpent/beast-taming reliefs, and still-living pockets of Europoids/Aryans all over the world (including South America, West Asia, North Africa, India, Far East, Japan) and genetic remnants in people like the Ainu et al, it seems that we really wuz kangz across the earth. And looking at very recent, well-documented cases of muh colonialism in South Africa and Rhodesia, we see a pattern we see in all past Aryan civilisations. It helps to understand the mean of the word civilisation: to make civil, polite, and orderly of nature. We keep the harm of nature at bay, and make it into something that serves ourselves kindly. So, that pattern I mentioned:

The only good nigger, of any genetic background, is one who is outnumbered by whites. Once they outnumber whites, they genocide them, destroy civilisation, and return to nature. Unfortunately for them, nature has no care or remorse or recognition for them, and goes right back to killing their dumb, violent, selfish asses through lack.

Pics related.

How fucking stupid are you. By your standards Christianity is JUST AS OLD AS Judaism, bc its THE SAME THING (ie. christianity was just the kikes evolving their religion)

fuck off retard

I never seen this version before. I heard the audio.

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yup. definitely a newfriend

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Kohen literally means priest in Hebrew, other semitic languages have it too, even Arabic.

forgot a pic

Judaism is older than Christianity, it started before Christianity, you're the one retarded for agreeing that Judaism is not older than Christianity.
And yes, Christianity is Semitic religion, it comes from Judaism and Judaism comes from Israelites who were Jews. By pointing out this fact doesn't mean that Christianity is as old as Judaism.
Stay mad faggot.

HOLY FUCK THIS MAKES ME MAD

What is that suppose to prove? Ofcrose, later some Indo-Europeans were blondes too, because they picked up those traits when they mixed with Scandinavian hunter-gatherers. See here

But, Proto-Indo-Europeans were never blonde or blue eyed according to genetic studies. They "looked" like Southern Europeans.

"The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence."

I repeat

"Overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European."

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

None of what you said means anything. If I take a space rocket and call it a basketball, that doesn't make it a basketball. If you take spooky magic and parasitic elitism taken from Babylon and elsewhere and call it Judaism, that doesn't make it the same as the religion of the ancient hebrews

stay retarded

This post was replay to this post

Kek, it means that I'm right silly. Israelites were Jews and Jews created Judaism, they created it before Christianity came. Agreed? If so, Judaism can't be older than Christianity.
If you label Talmud, which is a part of Judaism as spooky magic or whatever, it still doesn't change the fact that it belongs to Judaism. You're just playing with semantics at this point.

*If so, Christianity can't be older than Judaism

light coloured eyes seem to be an adaptation for civilized living, it is easier to see where another person's eyes are looking and thus it is easier to trust them. I would spitball that people with light coloured eyes were generally more successful in businesses like trade and so probably traveled around a lot.

Bear in mind this is my own personal conjecture.

GTFO

No, you're playing with semantics, because you are playing with labels. I am talking about substance which is the opposite of semantics.

Holy shit…please just stop talking until you learn basic logic and science.

Talmudism is not older than Christianity. The Judean belief precursor to Christianity is, of course, older.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_eye_hypothesis

I am just extending this theory to the colour of irises

I know, what I'm trying to explain to that sperg is that Judaism is older than Christianity and Talmudism being a part of Judaism doesn't change that fact. He literally agreed with another faggot that Judaism isn't older than Christianity if you check his posts.

Holla Forums is literally advocating for ritualistic humyn sacrifice now.

OK, what the fuck. Trump hasn't shifted the Overton Window, he fucked smashed it with his RWNJ baseball bat.

And what I'm trying to tell this faggot is that there is no logical or morphological connection between Talmudism and Ancient Judaism, and just because it supposedly goes by the same name doesn't mean its the same "thing"

sure is summer in here
>>>/reddit/

we should burn you at the stake

DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN

How the hell do we not have doxx on this bitch yet? How has someone not killed her?

i think they do. someone was saying it was some canadian kike or something. don't quote me on that

>>>/reddit/

The Old Testament was written after The New Testament.

This shill is "Learningcode", and they've been posting Rach and shilling ever since the early days of 4chan.
They must constantly switch IPs or something.
Also, Imkampfy is a literal nigger and won't ban them.

Capped for future use on newfriends who think Holla Forums isn't so bad.
The sheer arrogance and hatred of non-whites is stunning, even for a season veteran of Holla Forums like mysylf.

Let me help you there.
You are supposed to say I can't even
I was going to suggest I literally can't even but you already misused the word "literal" so you get extra points for that.

Oh so now it's "Ancient Judaism", give me a break, we're talking about Judaism from the Bronze age faggot and Talmudism is a part of this Judaism. Calling me a newfag won't change the fact that you're still playing with semantics.

;^)

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Keep telling your stories, kike. Less and less people believe them every day.

anyway, this thread has become a shitshow, so I'm out. have fun jackoffs

Thanks for capping. You seem to not be able to understand the meaning of Aryan, that it encompasses a broad swathe of different genetic groups who happen to have the ability to create and maintain order and decency. They have differing strengths and cultures and create different civs. It's minutiae, Chaim. And jews, mudslimes, and modern Orientals are not Aryans, although Persians and Indians definitely were. Dunno where the fuck you got "Antarticans" and yes Druids were European, duh. Each population has its own history and accomplishments. None are truly equal, and group will ever be equal. It's diversity(!) among the capable and the incapable in complex and advanced societies.

I bet you think the Yazidi deserve their current genocide out of existence, too. A world of indistinct mud without history or identity with kikes at the top, only through the process of eliminating all superiors of themselves. Your kind seek pic related.

Also, nice mac, redditfag. I can tell by your screenshot

It's probably the case that the civilization started off Semetic, but Aryan immigrants culturally enriched it (for real).

Not only that, but the artwork, statues, and the countless ancient stories from all these cultures describing invading armies, visiting gods, holy figures, traveling warriors, nobility, etc. being of fair skin, hair, end eyes.

I'll be honest, if some hebe scientist tries to tell me something counter to what these ancient people have preserved for us, (Especially something that tries to distance me from my ancestors), I'll take the 10,000 year old stories that are not only from my people, but are mirrored in the stories of my distant, distant, DISTANT kin halfway around the world.

Your article doesn't really support that blue eyes and blond hair came from the Scandinavians, though. It just says that they had them. There's no good evidence that they mixed and that's where it was introduced from. In fact, aside from the occasional (historically recent) viking colony and frequent raid sites, Scandinavian haplogroups are remarkably isolated to Scandinavia. Yes, I know Haplogroups aren't the be all end all, but they do strongly correlate. For example, it's genetically very difficult to tell the difference between a Frenchman and a German, despite one being historically Celtic and the other Germanic, but even to this day it's very easy to determine Scandinavian ancestry.

I'm not trying to shit on you, and I do think you're genuine and I appreciate that you're sourcing your shit, but what you're presenting is pretty counter to what's generally accepted, and the sources themselves seem to be trying to fit a preconceived notion or narrative, rather than letting the data lead them to a conclusion.

For example, not only the speculation of Scandinavian admixture (Which is fine) presented as fact (not fine), but the timelines presented throw a wrench in it as well. Indo-European migrations happened from around 4500 to 1000 BC. That's 6000 years ago. Of course Europeans from 7-8000 years ago looked like modern Southern Europeans. So do Basques, Black Irish and Welsh, and what's left of the Picts. They're pre-IE native Europeans.

They're taking samples from 8000 years ago. The Yamna people at that time would have had pre-IE swarthy features and lactose intolerance, just like they say. The IE Migrations were just that. Migrations. Meaning integration with existing cultures and populations, often with the IE people managing to take over the existing one, but not annihilating it. That's why there's so many very distinct, yet similar ancient cultures, languages, and religions in Europe despite all of them being Indo-European.

WE
WUZ
FAIR SKINNED GODS
N
SHIET

This is good shit user, just bought the ebook. Thanks for the recommendation.

I mean shit, I don't mean to be an autist and bombard the thread with walls of text, it says lactose tolerance showed up around 4300 years ago, light skin 5800 years ago, and tallness showing up around 4800. All those fit perfectly with the waves of R1a and R1b Indo European migrations just fine. Your sources are trying to say or are mixing up native neolithic Europeans and Indo-Europeans. Yes, they're correct in saying that Europeans looked darker and shorter 8000 years ago. But that's because at the time the migrations hadn't even happened yet.

So no, Indo-Europeans from the steppe did not "look like Southern Europeans". Fair skin, eyes, hair, as well as tallness and lactose tolerance perfectly coincide with the currently accepted timetable of IE migrations, even by your own sources.

I think what's happening is you're confusing what the article is saying as "Europeans in general" with "Specifically Indo Europeans"

It means that the middle east was significantly whiter in the past.

The Phoenicians were originally from the Levant.

...

Whilst I'm not too keen on running around claiming whites were everything and everyone - even if partially true it would ruin our credibility in the eyes of the uninitiated - I can tell everyone ITT that the ancient Greeks associated blonde hair, fair skin and blue eyes with their pantheon of Gods.

Wrong again. Just because I don't click on every webm or even have every meme's origin or reason why they exist memorized so I can impress some anonymous nobodies doesn't take away from the you are wrong on both accounts.

*fact

This.
I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the Phoenicians were a mixed bag. I guess not.

what's your favourite subreddit?

95% of the Ethiopians I work with are swell people. Very friendly with white features. Only 1 of them smells really bad and doesn't speak English. Though, I heard that he is not from Ethiopia from an Egyptian guy I work with. So, Might be he said Etriean and I misunderstood his nigger accent.

But the women are A+. Except, they are muzzies.

Historically, if not for Ethiopia, we wouldn't have many old christian texts.

A sad state they exist in today.

The U5 haplogroups come from the ancient hunter-gatherer populations of Europe, and looking over wikipedia U5B2 comes from Spain so this guy may have been the product of Phonetician colonists intermingling with the natives of Iberia.

*Phoenician

Blame Mussolini, he invaded to abolish slavery ruining the economy and quality of life. Ethiopia used to be quite the respected country now it's shit tier begging to feed starving children on the TV.

WEE WAS ATLANTIANS AND SHEIT

That and communism. Communism turns any country into a shithole, regardless of racial makeup.

This thread is afrocentrism tier

Which posts triggered you son?

Somalis are racially pretty much the same as Ethiopians just slightly more mongrelized with dindus and sandindus and severely dysgenized by Islam in the same manner Albania (median IQ 87) was. Keep in mind that Ethiopia today is also heavily mongrelized to the point of having the lowest median IQ in the world (according to Lynn and his questionable methodology) but purer Cushitics still exist in large numbers.

Are we supposed to be surprised?
We've known this for 2400 years already.

Snowniggers though provide photographic and genetic evidence instead of "mad-nigger scientist created evil albinos dat stole muh kangz n shieeet" theories.

t. objective Mediterranean observer

That's kinda absurd. If they weren't full-White then how the fuck do you explain the relatively frequent occurrence of blue-eyed blondes in Iran, Afghanistan and Northern India or the extreme overrepresentation of fiery-headed and glaucous-eyed heroes, kings and Gods in Greek mythology?

IMO proto-Indoeuropeans (Yamna culture) might fitted your description but later self-described Aryans had probably already largely incorporated blonde blue-eyed snowniggers from the Pontic Steppes the genetically supported birthplace of blue-eyes mutation and most strongly supported theorized Urheimat of IEs.

The thing is that there are two dominant and conflicting theories about the origin of light hair and eye colors, supposedly both supported by genetic evidence, but I've never seen anyone debating over which one is correct.

The one you mention claims a very recent origin from Eastern Europe as a mutation long after Neanderthals perished while the other claims that their origin is Neanderthalian, therefore potentially couple hundreds of years old.

gas yourself kike

This is the only post that matters in this whole thread.

For a race with a median IQ of 120 you sure are fucking stupid, learningcode.

Wew, does this place have any relation to the word "nimrod" by any chance?

Nice bait Schlomo

This literally means nothing because the Phoenicians were excellent navigators and could easily have brought back someone from Europe in one of their mercantile travels to the north of Spain.

Depressing thing about movement of people. I get the strong feeling that what we are experiencing now is the same thing we have experienced throughout history. Empires being formed and destroyed due to their affluence - Encouraging shit skins to come in. Then fleeing in migration and starting over.

Guess that explains why Lebanon is white.

Could be, but this is a maternal haplogroup, hard thing to examine. In most migrations women didn't move, or not as much as men.
But Europe is made up of PIE, IE, and NS people anyway so that would only support the hypothesis of the three major migrations. Not including the Finno-Ugric migrations.

...

You are fucking joking right?

Why do you always post pictures of Rachel Maddow? Do you have some weird attachment to her or something?

Link in the middle of the New Observer article:

READ Latest Auschwitz “Holocaust Survivor” Story a “Colossal Lie” Researcher Points Out

new observer is pretty based

Wait. Does that mean we're the jews enemies since the OT?

we…we…BUT WE WUZ THE KANGS!!!!!!

Did I say subtext? I meant text.

Was that seriously on the History channel?

I knew the retards in here would completely misunderstand the story once again.

ROMANIA WAS BERBER!!!!!!
t. average retarded nordicist logic

Don't a lot of the people there say the fairer people are due to Alexander's invasion? Plutarch spoke about how much the Greeks loved Persian women in particular.

I'm not saying that is the complete answer, but it might be part of it.

My understanding, and you probably know this better than I do, is that lighter hair, such as red and reddish blonde, was found in Neanderthals going back tens of thousands of years. However, lighter eyes seem to be much more recent, and most of our ancestors probably had olive skin tones similar to Southern Europeans, since that makes the most sense for exposed skin for almost all portions of Europe and Asia except for areas like Scandinavia and northernmost Russia.

It would be hard to have a skin tone like this even in latitudes of areas like France and Hungary 30,000 years ago, where people spent so much of their lives out of doors and exposed to the sun.

Interesting..

Seems like a reemergence of old symbolism in the region

Calm down Corleone.

Ancient Egypt was weird, and the genetic makeup of modern day Copts reflects this. The Ancient Egyptians always portrayed themselves as brown, not dark brown like niggers but still brown, yet there have been genetic tests done to say that the Sun Kings' closest living relatives are Celtic Britons. Furthermore, there's evidence to suggest that Egypt was conquered by black Nubians for at least a short time. To say that it belonged to any one single race is probably wrong. Ancient Egypt was probably a nation like Sumer: a civilization that was constantly changing masters. And at least some of those masters were undeniably White.

Actually it was a short lived dynasty which came into power through a chaotic period.

Geneticists and anthropologists have known this for decades.

Fuck off.

1. Proto-Indo-Europeans from steppe did not have any genetic genetic alleles for blue eyes or blond hair (HERC2/OCA2), only Scandinavian hunter-gatherers had BOTH and they were not Indo-Europeans.

2. Western European hunter-gatherers had dark skin but universally had blue eyes, again they were also not Indo-Europeans.

3. Indo-Europeans (mixed from "cradle" Eastern European hunter-gatherers + Caucasus hunter-gatherers) brown hair, brown eyes and slightly darker skin than Mediterraneans.

sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

Look up each genetic ancestry components in google, maybe you'll learn something.

Are you stupid? Those samples are not from 8000 years ago, they are from 3,500 – 2,300 BCE.

"The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence."

I repeat

"Overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European."

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

Most Greeks would be indistinguishable from sand niggers for a Norwegian in Norway.

well he isn't wrong. SOME South Europeans, primarily Sicilians and some Greeks you'd be hard pressed to consider "white"

North Africans are aryans

Oh damn wrong picture

Reminder that the American civilizations were ours too

Daily reminder that the American civilizations were White as well. Europeans have ventured to America several time since the Solutreans in the Ice Age.
There are already some theories with supporting evidence that suggests that the Carthaginians, who were decendants of the Phoenicians, traveled to South America.
Besides them, the Solutreans and the Vikings. There are also supporting evidence of the Guanches, the Indo-European natives of the canary islands traveled to America.
And it doesn't stop there. From America there is evidence that they traveled the Pacific Ocean, traveling to Hawaii, Easter Island, New Zealand and Australia.

The most extensive and researched work on Whites in pre-Columbian America are Norwegian archeologist and ethnographer Thor Heyerdahl's book American Indians in the Pacific.
It is available here: archive.org/details/AmericanIndiansPacificHeyerdahl

Other books
archive.org/details/thorheyerdahlaku037009mbp
archive.org/details/AmericanIndiansPacificHeyerdahl
archive.org/details/WhiteIndiansOfDarienRichardMarsh1934

WE
WUZ
INJUN
KANGZ
N
SHEIT

Don't be a fucking nigger, user. We don't have to pretend like we wuz errything to be the best.

...

PIGS are not entirely white. Nothing new, nothing to see here.

MAJOR REDPILL
I just realized Himmler was 100% right the whole time with his aryan Atlantis theory. This explains the similar symbolism and race of the ancient civilisations

The mythologies of many nations contain accounts of gods who "came out of the sea." Certain shamans among the American Indians tell of holy men dressed in birds' feathers and wampum who rose out of the blue waters and instructed them in the arts and crafts. Among the legends of the Chaldeans is that of Oannes, a partly amphibious creature who came out of the sea and taught the savage peoples along the shore to read and write, till the soil, cultivate herbs for healing, study the stars, establish rational forms of government, and become conversant with the sacred Mysteries. Among the Mayas, Quetzalcoatl, the Savior-God (whom some Christian scholars believe to have been St. Thomas), issued from the waters and, after instructing the people in the essentials of civilization, rode out to sea on a magic raft of serpents to escape the wrath of the fierce god of the Fiery Mirror, Tezcatlipoca.

May it not have been that these demigods of a fabulous age who, Esdras-like, came out of the sea were Atlantean priests? All that primitive man remembered of the Atlanteans was the glory of their golden ornaments, the transcendency of their wisdom, and the sanctity of their symbols–the cross and the serpent. That they came in ships was soon forgotten, for untutored minds considered even boats as supernatural. Wherever the Atlanteans proselyted they erected pyramids and temples patterned after the great sanctuary in the City of the Golden Gates. Such is the origin of the pyramids of Egypt, Mexico, and Central America. The mounds in Normandy and Britain, as well as those of the American Indians, are remnants of a similar culture. In the midst of the Atlantean program of world colonization and conversion, the cataclysms which sank Atlantis began. The Initiate-Priests of the Sacred Feather who promised to come back to their missionary settlements never returned; and after the lapse of centuries tradition preserved only a fantastic account of gods who came from a place where the sea now is.

H. P. Blavatsky thus sums up the causes which precipitated the Atlantean disaster: "Under the evil insinuations of their demon, Thevetat, the Atlantis-race became a nation of wicked magicians. In consequence of this, war was declared, the story of which would be too long to narrate; its substance may be found in the disfigured allegories of the race of Cain, the giants, and that of Noah and his righteous family. The conflict came to an end by the submersion of the Atlantis; which finds its imitation in the stories of the Babylonian and Mosaic flood: The giants and magicians '* * * and all flesh died * * * and every man.' All except Xisuthrus and Noah, who are substantially identical with the great Father of the Thlinkithians in the Popol Vuh, or the sacred book of the Guatemaleans, which also tells of his escaping in a large boat, like the Hindu Noah–Vaiswasvata. " (See Isis Unveiled.)

From the Atlanteans the world has received not only the heritage of arts and crafts, philosophies and sciences, ethics and religions, but also the heritage of hate, strife, and perversion. The Atlanteans instigated the first war; and it has been said that all subsequent wars were fought in a fruitless effort to justify the first one and right the wrong which it caused. Before Atlantis sank, its spiritually illumined Initiates, who realized that their land was doomed because it had departed from the Path of Light, withdrew from the ill-fated continent. Carrying with them the sacred and secret doctrine, these Atlanteans established themselves in Egypt, where they became its first "divine" rulers. Nearly all the great cosmologic myths forming the foundation of the various sacred books of the world are based upon the Atlantean Mystery rituals.

from: THE SECRET TEACHINGS OF ALL AGES

by Manly P. Hall (33° Mason)

STOP YOU EMBARRASSING FUCKWIT

Scandinavian hunter-gatherers had genetic alleles for blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin but they were not Indo-Europeans.

They were just another population Indo-Europeans mixed with and then spread out again in different waves.

sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

What happened was, Indo-Europeans mixed with Scandinavian hunter-gatherers and then spread out again in different waves, mixing with various other populations like they mixed with Scandinavian hunter-gatheres.

Proto-Indo-Europeans did not have genetic alleles for blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin that Scandinavian hunter-gatherers had.

"The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence."

I repeat

"Overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European."

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

Europeans are mix of Neolthic farmers, Western European hunter-gatherers and Yamnaya Indo-Europeans (mix of Eastern European hunter-gatherers + Cacucaus hunter-gatherers)

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

You are completely unaware of our race's history. The current historical timeline is wrong and the Jewish archeological establishment do everything in their power to supress our true history. The truth is, that our race is the creator race. If the mongoloids from sibera created those civilizations, why is South Americh a third world backwater today. You see the phenomenon of decline in Europe of America today, as the racial charcter of civilization changes, the civilization declines. It is that simple. That is what happened in America and the other ancient civilizations built buy us, swarmed by primitive hordes.
Why, I ask, should we give the remnants of our history to them? The difference between us and the other races is that the evidence actually points in our direction.
For thousands of years primitive cultures have died and been forgotten, while we have endured. In fact, as it stands, earlier high cultures were the result of our race. The ancient ruins the primitives dwell besides was built by us long ago. Our race, unlike theirs, are a race of creators. Our urge to create is immutable; we must create.

Jesus Christ. You even write like one of those afro-centric niggers. Get the fuck out.

Western European hunter-gatherer ancestry (aboriginal to Europe) is not found outside Europe.

But other ancestry components in Europeans like "Neolithic farmers" who came from Middle East and "Indo-Europeans from steppe" (mix of Eastern European + Caucasus hunter-gatherers) is what connects Europeans to Eurasians and North Africans.

That's why Eurasians and North Africans cluster close to Europeans.

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

We have more than enough achievement without desperately leeching off of others, Moishe, please leave.

Bump for science.
Thanks OP.

Related:

The Neanderthal correlation
A question of breeding

nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7194/full/453562a.html

Fascinating article about some beta progressive scientists discovering that natural selection favoured the social skills from Cro-magnon rather than the intellectual skills from Neanderthal, hence why Neanderthal disappeared.
Cro-magnons were able to breed with them because of better social skills (and thus less intellectual power).

sci-hub.io

How come you're on Holla Forums and don't have it in bookmarks? Also, they're sometimes blocked and forced to migrate from one host to another, their twatter usually has up-do-date into.

...

I do tell you good fellow it would appear that our ancestors had conquered the dark continent much earlier than previously believed!

most of this stuff happened preflood

More genetic studies regrading steppe Proto-Indo-European/Aryan phenotype.

Aryans aka Proto-Indo-Europeans had brown hair, brown eyes and had slightly darker complexion than modern Europeans, in other words they looked like Southern Europeans.

Genetic studies from Wilde et al 2014 and Haak et al 2015.

This one is from Wilde et al 2014 ~

I repeat

Wilde et al, literally crushed Nordist propaganda right there.

This one is from Haak et al 2015 ~

I repeat

pnas.org/content/111/13/4832.abstract

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

Get back in your viking huts, Nordist-cucks!

Genetic studies shows Proto-Indo-Europeans "looked" like Southern Europeans. They only received Nordic traits after mixing with Scandinavian hunter-gatherers and then spreading out again.

Greece and Southern Italy are two places that have high percentages of "native" people who shouldn't breed, but that's not the same as saying they're not white. They just have more housecleaning to do and note that pretty much every white nation today has people in it who should not breed

Really informative post.

...

Phoenicians were ancient Jews. They were literally responsible for the Bronze Age collapse (the Sea People).

Genetics don't matter. Ideology matters. If it was any other way, pre-migration Barbarians that later became European tribes (Franks, Goths, etc) would have just colonized the stars with their superior brains long ago.

No, it is white CULTURE that is important. European genes in Jew and nigger populations is irrelevant, as is the opposite.

This. I'm Greek and most greeks are white but some are half-shitskinned like gysies. This occured from some racemixing. and btw medditeranians get tanned in the summer or while working under the sun; this doesnt mean we're black as some deppressed from zero glorious sun exposure northener cucks will have you believe. You can tell greeks from the eyes that are distinct, hair and jawline and by the beards. just look at ancient greek statues and you will see similar facial and body characteristics

guys, for all that we know it was just some iberian woman that married some phoenician from the iberian colonies and had the kid

don't get too excited

I mean, that haplogroup is most present in fucking Portugal/Galiza (Northwestern Iberia)

there isn't any traces of Phoenicians there, most likely all of iberia had more of that mithocondrial haplogroup back then and over time it got lost on the eastern portion remaining mainly in northwestern iberia

m8s, every country with the possible exception of the brittish isles has some non-white admixture among some members of it's nation

wether it's north african in southwestern europe, middle eastern in southeastern europe, or mongoloid in central,north and eastern europe, they all do (in differing percentages obviously)

and also France, although to a lesser degree and more recent (colonies and liberal jacobine values when it comes to race mixing)

every nation will have to sort itself out and find a way to fix that.

The Portuguese made an alliance with them when they arrived bc they were "Christians". so they allied to fight off Muslims

Honestly I'm not a fan of the "Christianity is what made us great" theory, but in this case I could see Christianity helping Ethiopians rise above the other shitskins, specially since they had a very old tradition, unlike the "Christianized" Nigs we have today in africa who are very recent.

The entire genetics community is going to piss and shit their pants when we get our hands on some complete DNA from the ancient near east, that area is the key to understand the origin of Europeans and west Eurasians in general, but unfortunately the area is pretty understudied and it's hard to get your hand on intact DNA.

Which would have happened before the IE migrations, not after. Meaning everything is still fine and dandy with them being light skinned, eyed, and of hair when they went into Europe and elsewhere. The Proto-Indo-Europeans were not necessarily the same thing as the Indo-Europeans. Even if your precious Yamnaya initially lacked these features and got them from Scandinavians, that's fine, because even from your own sources the timeline means that they moved into Europe AFTER they got them. The Yamnaya aren't even found in Europe at all, their descendants are. Their blond, tall, lactose tolerant ones. Again, you're mixing up three different populations and effectively considering them the same thing. Your sources are spinning their own narrative, but even with their own presented data, nothing has changed from what we already know.

You keep posting the same thing word for word from the same one or two extremely recent studies (So recent that their credibility is not yet cemented) from the same one or two people, you keep posting that ugly halfbreed, and now you go on to reveal yourself as an obviously booty blasted Mediterranean mutt with your "Crushed Nordist propaganda" and "Go back in your viking huts, Nordist cucks."

Like I said earlier last night. New information counter the the status quo should be viewed with caution, especially if there might be an agenda behind it. Not only did your sources seem to have one, but now you obviously do as well. Get fucked, Giuseppe, and take your shoddy, bullshit "studies" with you.

Fundamental flaw in this scientific paper. It claims to know the race from looking at the genes however a while ago some user posted some information from his high school classes that you cannot see race in genetics because race doesn't exist.

Weren't the Yamnaya part Ancient North Eurasian?

checkmate racists

not him but why do you keep insisting that the admixture would've happened before?
the pontic-caspian steppe is NOT in n. Europe and when you move westward you don't have to necessarily pass from n. Europe
and indeed, the ones who followed the balkanic route to Greece wouldn't get those features on the way

the data simply suggests that the candidates for the proto-IE invaders were overwhelmingly dark, that's it

of course, there is no Indo-European people but various peoples who adopted the language in various parts of Europe and beyond due to there proto-IE moving

and those are mostly found in the areas that were already blonde to begin with
moreover, lactose tolerance was also at very low frequencies in the Yamnaya peoples, meaning that selection is what brought it to our current levels in n. Europe and not just admixture
same thing goes for fair features in general, who got their high frequencies mostly through selection

Butthurt Nordist-cuck, you literally sound like afrocentric nigger, even with all the scientific genetic proof out there.

Go peddle with your nordist bullshit somewhere else if you don't have genetic studies to back up your nordist claims.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

Scandinavian hunter-gatherers had blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin alleles (HERC2/OCA2) 7700 -years ago, they were one of many population living in Europe before Indo-European invasion from steppes.

Proto-Indo-Europeans in their steppe-homeland did NOT have any of those nordic genetic alleles in 3,500 – 2,300 BCE when they migrated to Europe.

Wilde et al 2014 ~ It seems that light pigmentation traits had already existed in pre-Indo-European Europeans (both farmers and hunter-gatherers) and so long-standing philological attempts to correlate them with the arrival of light-pigmented Indo-Europeans from the steppe (or indeed anywhere), and to contrast them with darker pre-Indo-European inhabitants of Europe were misguided.

Aryan aka Proto-Indo-Europeans had brown hair, brown eyes and were slightly darker than average Europeans. In other words, they looked like Southern Europeans.

Haak et al 2015 ~ The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence.

Wilde et al 2014 ~ The new study seems to confirm the results of Wilde et al. on steppe groups, as the Yamnaya had a very low frequency of the HERC2 derived "blue eye" allele and a lower frequency of the SLC45A2 "light skin" allele than any modern Europeans.

Their distant ancestors were but Proto-Indo-Europeans were (mix of Eastern European hunter-gatherers + Caucasus hunter-gatherers) from the "cradle".

pnas.org/content/111/13/4832.abstract

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

Just FYI, it's "nordicist"

The Phoenicians had colonized Iberia and intermarried with locals, this guy was just a half-breed. With that said, I'm still pretty sure that the ancient Carthaginians were whiter than modern Sicilians.

THIS!

Just ONE mtdna U5b2c1 find does not make Semitic-Phonecians "Europeans". Why? because mtDNA U5 is pretty common in local Berber populations of North Africa.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U_(mtDNA)#Haplogroup_U5

What is sure though is that U5b2c1 is not Phoenician/Levantine. It's most likely to be local Berber/Carthaginian or came through trades, or Iberian arrival.

Phoenicians had big empire, covered all coastal Mediterranean countries, which is made up of various diverse population.

Note : his DNA comes from North Africa, not Phoenician homeland in near-east/fertile crescent.

Greek women are pale as fuck though, whiter than white girls, at least the ones I have met, though all have darker eyes and darker hair(prob. cuz of that good weather)

their guys are normal though - albeit all have that heavy beard

You don't understand the history of Judaism.

Modern Talmudic Judaism has nothing to do with the religion of the ancient Israelites.

that image is bullshit. Talmudism came centuries after jesus was crucified

The Talmud was written down centuries after Jesus, but it was based on the oral teachings of the Rabbis. The heresy goes back to the Babylonian occupation. The full name of the Talmud is the Babylonian Talmud.

Why do you think Jesus called the Pharisees the children of Satan who teach vain traditions of their elders?

...

No, it's called the Babylonian Talmud for a reason.

These were a pharisees, and there was a reason Jesus was so pissed at them. They subverted the Torah as the supreme word of God in favor of their perverse book of law written by rabbis.

Deuteronomy and Leviticus was proto-Talmudism.

You must be homosexual.

You must be a kike.

That's hilarious. There is only jewry, a pox that has existed for thousands of years. They were kicked out of Babylon for a reason (the same fucking reason they have been kicked out of other nations for thousands of years). It was too late though.

Babylon suffered the same fate we are suffering today.

Fuck off rabbi.

Nope!

Stay willfully ignorant, I guess.

I can explain this. You are a moronic anti-white who doesn't understand the difference of a few thousand years and is simply desperate to try to delegitimize anything White.

Also the Nordists or Vikings farmed
They had a system of government and laws
They had a written language
They had metalworking
They built vessels capable of sailing to other continents
There is more to civilization than whether buildings are made from concrete or straw
The thing is african society is devoid of everything that makes civilization what it is.
Get fucked nigger.

The Talmud began when Moses began to speak for "God" and hand out instructions for behaving against the other Semite tribes they had contact with. Had the fucker had contact with White man back then, he wouldn't even be a footnote in "history."

Because of Scandinavian male and female haplogroup distribution in Europe.

Going by Greek art, stories and records from the Greeks themselves and their contemporaries, the swarthiness of Greeks (And Southern Europeans in general) seems to be a relatively recent thing. Even the current swarthiness isn't much more than a stereotype. There are PLENTY of very fair featured southern Europeans.

No, that's what ac91a4 is suggesting. The data suggests that the proto-IE people in the Yamnaya region were dark and lactose intolerant. I see no problem with this. The data is there. The problem is that the Yamnaya were not the invaders. They were the ancestors of the invaders. By the time the IE people came out of the PIE people they had the admixture already and spread it from Ireland to India.

I have no issue with what he's presenting. The evidence is all there that the PIE Yamna people received lighter traits from a nearby native Euro population. I have issue with what he's extrapolating from it. For example, he says:

Except the very article he gives says that these Nordic traits were beginning to be spread around by IE peoples about 1000-2000 years before that. He also says that the PIE/Yamnaya people are the ones that migrated to Europe, which isn't the case. Swarthy PIE people mixed with nearby lighter Nordics, developed into the IE people we all know and love, then started to migrate. PIE turns into IE who turn into Europeans. He's skipping an entire step.

...

This whole thread smells of incredible shillness. Wow.

Non-African peoples are descended from East Africans.

...

Some homework for everyone in this thread.

Read Carleton Coon's The Races of Europe and then read, Erectus walks amongst us and then A troublesome inheritance.

Come back and tell me what you've learnt.

More nordicist lies.

I'm not anti-white, I'm anti-nordicist and their pseudohistory and false superiority complex.

No, they din't! Germanic din't record their own history, we don't know anything about them other than what Hellenic and Roman writers wrote about them.

Runic itself is Italic script, it developed among mainland Germanics who were influenced by Hellenic and Roman cultures.

They learned metal work from Hellenic and Roman cultures, why do think everything they made was poor copy of what Romans and Greeks already made?

Again, learned ship building from early Romans.

Lol, yeah sure. Only ancient surviving buildings in Northern Europe were built by Romans. Look up Porta Nigra in Germany, it was built by Romans in 1st century A.D.

Only contribution of Germanic people to Europe is childish scribble on runic stones and that too in 11th century A.D!

Your ancestors din't recorded their own history, you can't go around claiming we invented this or that.

...

WE WUZ WHITEZ AND SHEEEEEITTTTT

theslayerrune.blogspot.dk/2013/04/human-sacrifice.html
'In Saga of Olaf Tryggvason Snorre tells that Earl Hakon sacrificed his son Erling to gain victory over the Jomsvikings in the famous battle at Horundafjord. In The Saga of the Jomsvikings it is said that Earl Hakon prayed to his patron goddess Thorgerd Holgabrúd to gain victory, but that she would receive no other offering than his seven year old son. When the son was sacrificed, a hailstorm turned against the Jomsvikings, and all the second-sighted fighting in the battle had seen Thorgerd in the sky, sending showers of arrows against the Jomsvikings. The arrows shot out of her fingers and all of the arrows hit their targets.'

top kek, and what would that be? Y-DNA I1 is mostly spread only in n. Europe

oh I see, I'm wasting my time
believe what you want m8, you're no different than a negro
peace

i'm nordic and even i know that meds >nords

but all whites > non-whites so idgaf

the funniest thing is when nordicists try and say the roman emperors were nordic. that takes some serious mental gymnastics

You're not for real…

I can't believe meds and nords are still having these shit flinging contests, they're both respectable sub-races within their own rights and histories. Even Madison Grant, one of the founding fathers of modern nordicist theory stated that Nordics and Mediterraneans could make some really beautiful people. He just didn't wish to see nordics decrease in number any further than they already had.

Charles Darwin, Madison Grant and Carleton Coon just confirmed why I should be a racist.

Somalis are bad too.

Mixture with North European slave girls (Uralics).

It's pretty certain.

No, they were not you stupid nigger.

East Africans don't cluster with Eurasians. They're closest population are West Africans.

Only reason they have more "Caucasian" features is because Northern Africans raped bunch of nigger whores.

Somalians are the worst "humans" of all, along with gypsies. They are even worse than other niggers. Scum, subhuman scum.

...

It bought their criminals and debtors. US Blacks are the Australians of Africa.

...

Which is exactly what I'm saying, you fucking retard.

Sure think m8.

Saying that they were of lighter complexion does not equal Nordic, but nice straw man.

Too bad you're wrong, since consensus in the anthropological community is that they're the best contenders for the Proto-IE people, not the IE people. You and your buddy keep making the mistake that the two terms are synonymous.

Again, you and your friend just keep extrapolating wild shit to fit your new narrative. Slave girls doesn't explain R1 MALE haplogroups, which are associated with the IE people, being found in these lighter populations.

Proto-IE and IE are terms from linguistics. Proto-IE is a language
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language
from the IE language family descends
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

So you mixed up your terminology.

Well, so they forgot to castrate some of their male slaves.

It's a linguistic and racial term. Proto-IE is used to refer to the origin of both the language and the culture (I hope I don't have to give you a Latin lesson to explain what "Proto" means), the "proto" is dropped when referring to the populations that left the region (Hence why it's called "Indo European migration", not "Proto Indo-European migration").

Your ridiculous shit is becoming easier and easier to discard by the post.

*greek, rather.

I'm pretty sure that white flight in general was away from other whites to escape competition and nail easy brown pussy, a natural urge.

In this context, this board is not full of fearless meme warriors but relentless truth seekers who follow kek because it allows them to avoid the pressures of facing their own severe neuroses.

The history of the Ancient Polytheistic Germanics and Vikings were written by their enemies, Romans, Greeks and Christians who were hardly unbiased.

Also the Romans were boy-loving imperalists, nigger.

No fucking shit. Second from the right is a "Canaanite" from ancient egyptian times

you sound like a leftist

My guess would be that the left guy is Cananite because they are reported to be tattoed and have other types of body mutulations

Also

You must be from Sweden.

Nigger, I never said imperialism is bad
I said that they were BOY-LOVING imperialists

...

Wops in turn learned everything from kebabs. The civilizational center-of-gravity has generally drifted northwards from the fertile crescent as the more intelligent northern populations have increased in numbers due to improving agricultural technologies.

The low IQ middle easterners were the first to develop agriculture, cities, writing, seafaring and metal-working due to the favorable local conditions in the fertile crescent. Southern Europeans had bigger brains than middle-easterners and so were able to adopt and improve these middle-eastern technologies, at which point Southern Europeans quickly overtook the middle east in term of civilizational complexity. The same dynamic took place between Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans, southerners transmitted the accumulated knowledge of the south to the bigger brained but less densely populated peoples of the north, after which Northern Europe quickly overtook Southern Europe in terms of civilizational complexity.

By adding "imperialist" on there i thought you were implying imperialism, along with faggotry, is bad.

You:

Categorial confusion: you claim PIE is a people, and also the origin of their language, and IE is a people and several peoples.

Are you sober?

So y u no refute it?

...

Just wait for a moment, my fine friend, are you attempting to imply that…
our racial group once used to hold the positions of monarchs and such?

S Europeans dysgenically drifted stupid beacause they had slaves, dumber than themselves, who in in turn whenn freed had slaves dumber than themselves … downward spiral.

N. Europeans sold dumb people to S. Europeans as slaves, so stayed smart.

You still keep peddling your pseudo-nordicist history without any evidence from genetic studies.

Wilde et al 2014 already debuked your theory: "It seems that light pigmentation traits had already existed in pre-Indo-European Europeans (both farmers and hunter-gatherers) and so long-standing philological attempts to correlate them with the arrival of light-pigmented Indo-Europeans from the steppe (or indeed anywhere), and to contrast them with darker pre-Indo-European inhabitants of Europe were misguided."

Scandinavian hunter-gatherers carried genetic alleles for Nordic traits (HERC2/OCA2) and they were NOT*** Indo-Europeans. They were just another population Indo-Europeans mixed with and spread out again.

Indo-Europeans did not carry those allies according to genetic studies.

Haak et al 2015 : Neolthic farmers, Western European hunter-gatherers, Scandinavian hunter-gatherers.

Haak et al 2015 and Wilde et al 2014 ~ Indo-Europeans had brown hair, brown eyes and were slightly darker than modern Europeans. In other words, they "looked" like Southern Europeans.

Haak et al 2015 ~ The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence.

Wilde et al 2014 ~ The study seems to confirm the results of Wilde et al. on steppe groups, as the Yamnaya had a very low frequency of the HERC2 derived "blue eye" allele and a lower frequency of the SLC45A2 "light skin" allele than any modern Europeans.

pnas.org/content/111/13/4832.abstract

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

holy shit this is hilarious, is it nigger satire?

...

cf.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law
for bureaucracies, with the added observation that the subordinate hired must be dumber than his boss (so as to not threaten his control).

...

Europe, the middle east save for the Arab peninsula and North Africa were all white before the Arab invasion.

good cherrypicking, want me to go on google and google some white mustard rice from the south of the US being complete third world tier niggers?
stay assblasted you pale orangutan

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age
en.natmus.dk/historical-knowledge/denmark/prehistoric-period-until-1050-ad/the-bronze-age/a-folding-chair-from-the-bronze-age/

Egypt style.

Maybe your Germanic ancestors knew how to recorded their own history we wouldn't have to relay on Hellenic, Romans and Christian sources.

You hunter-gatherers who were civilized by Romans and later by Romanized Christianity.

Organised literature came to Norse pagans with Christianity and that too only between 10th-11th century A.D

Who is the nigger? We still sending monkeys to space?

Nice try Fritz

It is objectively true that Northern Europeans are more intelligent than Southern Europeans. Southern European ceased to be competitive with Northern Europeans after Northern and Southern Europe reached demographic parity in the late middle ages.

Nordics = Scandis and Danes

Britain/France/Germany are not Nords

Also

that pic goes full retard after it gets into Christianity

yes because mantaining a high population density comes for free and has no drawbacks whatsoever and scientific output scales linearly with population, yup, that's totally it
also, your map shows that n. Italians are generally as smart or smarter than n.Euros, and usually previous IQ tests normally put Italy at the top in Europe, sometimes along with Germany and Austria

moreover, the biggest inputs ironically come from the less ethnically germanic countries, being england(30% germanic at best) and Germany, which is hugely celtic in the south

snowmonkeys only began to dominate in the last centuries and they are already throwing everything into the trash by being the toppest of goyim and doing ethnic sudoku

we'll see how master race you'll be in 100 years, meanwhile enjoy the nigger shipments, I don't even care anymore

You would still be living in mudhut if it wasn't for Romans.

None of those architecture in your pics are "Germanic", they are all Latin/Roman architecture, notice how they are all church? lol

Look up Porta Nigra in Germany, it was built by Romans in 1st century A.D. Oldest building in Northern Europe.

Pic related : real germanic architecture and culture.

'If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.'

iq isn't everything, though. Asians have higher iq's on average than whites, but their civilisation is clearly not on par with what Europeans have produced over the ages.

um user your graph doesn't say what you think it does.

Obviously the slaving fields of Europe have low IQ (as West Africa, for the same reason). Slavers take out the local elite first, Katyn-style, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
before they start imposing their own justice and harvesting slaves.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aro_Confederacy

libcom.org/files/DebtThe_First_5_000_Years.pdf

Delusional snownigger.

I'm not the guy you were talking about, you mental retard. I was just interjecting to point out something. Learn to check ID's before you sperg out like that

just because they were white doesn't mean they were Aryan.

Egypt predates the Indo European migrations out of the Caucasus region, so they were likely racially similar to modern Europeans but were definitely not Aryan.

Sothern Italy and Southern Spain had
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latifundium#Ancient_Rome
with thousands of dumb slaves; their low IQ still shows up in the map.

'Pliny the Elder argued that the latifundia had ruined Italy and would ruin the Roman provinces as well.'

And they did.

Northern Italians are honorary Aryans.

Yeah I innately trust people with lighter eyes like my own more. Dark eyes, especially non-Caucasoid brown eyes are disturbingly opaque and flat.

...

I remember this nigger from 4chon /new/. Best to just ignore

Aryans were never blonde or blue eyed to begin with you stupid nordicist-cuck, they looked like Southern Europeans according to genetic studies.

"The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence."

I repeat

"Overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European."

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

See more genetic studies :

That's learnindchode.

actually it goes
celt/germanics (basically same thing)>true meds (ie not mixed with arab)>nords>slavs

Italy is not a good example.Since the unification there was a constant migrant wave to the north since industry was there an still now it's a constant,especially for graduates.
The south difference comes from the other problems present in there.

Also whoever is posting Monica Bellucci keep going.No matter how old she is,i would muh dick her in an instant

Explain non-Talmudic
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism
then.

YES WE WUZ

lol nobody cares about hair and eye color in itself, it has just become a useful proxy for Aryan behavioral traits such as intelligence and nobility.

we're honorary nothing, we're north Italians, proud of our basal mediterranean(ligurian-like) substratum with some celtic on top of it and we no need to associate with any other European except for our true brothers in Iberia and Greece, and perhaps France when they aren't suffering from stockholm syndrome

I've always thought that R1a was invaders from the east and R1b is the native european populations, correct?

That doesn't explain Southern Italy low IQ.
Not also the
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbëreshë_people
descendants of
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians
slaves (their supposed arrival in the Middle Ages is undocumented).

??

That feel when high R-S28. That feel when the vast majority of all european everything came out of north italy, and the rhine river valley. That feel when snowniggers think they are relevant.

no, R1a = eastern aryans, slavs
R1b = west aryans, Yamnaya peoples
R1b was confirmed to be already in western Europe in the mesolithic(ironically, in Villabruna, Italy) but was very likely brought at its high frequencies with the steppe invaders

Note on map
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasconic_languages
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasconic_substratum_theory

yup
if you think about it, there would be a huge possibility for us to go full we wuz as well and claim all the achievements of the central Euros and others, after all, Romans did hold those territories for a long time, thus the Italic input :^)
fortunately we're not so pathetically insecure

lol You're just a retarded hunter-gatherer who was civilized by Romans.

wut

Vasconic probably arrived with the first farmers from the fertile crescent. R1b are the Aryans who wiped them out.

I agree it's very problematic

Every haplogroup is defined as a mutation of another more basal one, R-S28 though is the defining Italo-Celtic mutation and a marker of Italics.
I* is also basal to I1 and I2, does this make Swedes and Sardinian much related? I think not.

R1b is as Aryan and Scandinavian I1a.

Correction : R1b is as Aryan as Scandnivanian I1a.

Nonsense. Basque is an isolate, no relative of anything from the FC.

However:

Vennemann's book Europa Vasconica - Europa Semitica (2003) was reviewed in Lingua by linguists Philip Baldi and B. Richard Page, who made reasoned dismissals of a number of his proposals. The reviewers in spite of their disagreement concluded in applauding Vennemann's "efforts to reassess the role and extent of language contact in the development of Indo-European languages in Europe".[2]

Vennemann's controversial claims about the prehistory of European languages include the following:

A "Vasconic" language family ancestral to Basque is a substratum of European languages, especially Germanic, Celtic, and Italic. Vennemann claims this could be evidenced by various loan words, toponyms, and structural features such as word-initial accent. The linguistic origin of Old European hydronymy, traditionally considered as Indo-European,[3] is classified as Vasconic by Vennemann. Numerous toponyms that are traditionally considered as Indo-European by virtue of their Indo-European head words are instead names that have been adapted to Indo-European languages through the addition of a suffix.
Semitic is a substratum of the Celtic languages, as shown by certain structural features of Celtic, especially their lack of external possessors.[4]
Punic, the Semitic language spoken in classical Carthage, is a superstratum of the Germanic languages. According to Vennemann, Carthaginians colonized the North Sea region between the 6th and 3rd centuries BC; this is evidenced by numerous Semitic loan words in the Germanic languages, as well as structural features such as strong verbs, and similarities between Norse religion and Semitic religion. This theory replaces his older theory of an unknown Semitic substrate language he called "Atlantidic" or "Semitidic". The Runic alphabet is derived directly from the Phoenician alphabet used by the Carthaginians, without intervention by the Greek alphabet. The Germanic sound shift is dated to the 6th to 3rd centuries BC, as evidenced by the fact that some presumed Punic loan words participated in it, while others did not.

You might be talking of some Semitic substrate.

from
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Vennemann

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_(Semitic)_languages

There are still doubts about R1b being Indo-Europeans, they probably just adopted Indo-European language just like all other non-R1a haplogroups in Europe did.

Basques don't even speak Indo-European language and they are all R1b haplogroup.

No SURVIVING relative. It is pretty apparent that Basques are a linguistic holdover from the farmers which were protected from rapid assimilation by the mountainous terrain of northern Spain.

Not sure what the relevance of his work is to the discussion at hand.

The fact that there was R1b1 in Italy ~14000 years ago among people of the so called "Villabruna cluster" i.e what geneticists usually called WHG in the past tells us that it's possible Basques got it even before the farmers arrived.
But we only have one R1b1 from the mesolithic though, I seems to be more present.
Pic related.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b
'Haplogroup R1b, also known as haplogroup R-M343, is the most frequently occurring Y chromosome haplogroup in Western Europe, as well as some parts of Russia (the Bashkir minority), Central Asia (e.g. Turkmenistan) and Central Africa (e.g. Chad and Cameroon).

R1b also reaches high frequencies in the Americas and Australasia, due largely to immigration from Western Europe. There is an ongoing debate regarding the origins of R1b subclades found at significant levels among some indigenous peoples of the Americas, such as speakers of Algic languages in central Canada.

It is also present at lower frequencies throughout Eastern Europe, Western Asia, as well as parts of North Africa and South Asia.

While Western Europe is dominated by the downstream subclades of R1b1b – especially R1b1b2 (R-M269) – the Fulɓe and Chadic-speaking peoples of Africa are dominated by the primary branch now known as R1b1a (R-V88). The third primary branch, R1b1c (R-M335), is rare and found mostly in Western Asia.'

According to
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Trask
Basque origin was north of the Pyrenees, in the area of the
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquitanian_language

No protection there.

If you can't assess that for yourself, why mention it at all?

yeah and?
R1b1 is basal to all of those

Well no shit Carthage was white, that's already been known for forever. They made statues of Hannibal in his time and he has European facial features and skull shape…

You guys claimed that Northern Euros borrowed agriculture, metallurgy, and shipbuilding so I wouldn't be so sure about that.

?
insecurity would be making shit up about us secretly being their elites or contributing enough to the gene pools so that we can claim their achievements
if you haven't noticed, Germanics and their descendants are the only ones who do this, I wonder why :^)
never saw Brits, Frenchmen, Spaniards, Greeks, etc.. doing it
I did see plenty of Romanians do it as well, though, must be something in common.

Most people are using nordic to refer to a phenotype rather than a nationality.

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/64837335/

Oh look, a Frenchman (Y4aEBWNj) calling the Indo Euros Nordic, much to the dismay of some the medibooists in this thread

He calls them "Nordic" in phenotype, not in genotype. The two things are different. Plenty of Italians currently have a "Nordic" phenotype, still they'd cluster with other meds once their genotype is analysed.
Phenotype is often regulated by a very small amount of SNPs, genotype is the whole picture.
Moreover, he's wrong about the Tarim mummies being the sources of the westward IE migrations. The tarim mummies are part of the eastern branch, which indeed was fair looking.
The Bellucci posting guy already spent too much time already explaining what genetics tells us about those steppe invaders, the western branch.

I'm proud of how this thread unfolded.

Bump.

good one dickheads

bump

WE WUZ MUTHAFUKKIN FUHNEESHINS AND SHIT CRACKA

A map showing the supposed extent of the Atlantean Empire. From Ignatius L. Donnelly's Atlantis: the Antediluvian World, 1882.[46]

hmm.. what does this line up with?

so.. this guy is anti-nord because they derived from Germanic and pseudo-italian scripture into runes? Where else are they going to come from originally?

I'm pretty sure nobody says anything about Scandinavian superiority so I think you're more or less just going on an autistic diatribe..

you tried at least

Maybe, but that was long enough ago that we still don't have a clear idea what the people who left Africa looked like.

I had actually read that saga. You have to realize these sagas were compiled after Iceland and the far north had converted to Christianity, so they are filled with stories to underscore how evil the practice was. To give an alternative viewpoint:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_man

While human sacrifice among the Celts appears to have been very infrequent, Caesar saying that already shows a different narrative than

Instead, it is something rolled into having a healthy society. Have a dangerous criminal? The gods want his blood to be sacrificed in order to sate themselves.

If you have to choose between staying alive or live in a stone house which one would you pick? I know which one pic related would choose because he aint no fool, wears wolfs pelt and worships pagan gods.

I hear you, though unfortunately there are some Nordicists who are a little lunatic, like this guy

While Nordics and fairer Slavs are no doubt a beautiful people with amazing features, I have found that I respond just as deeply or maybe even more so to the beauty of Mediterranean women. Their darker hair/eyes/skin is less "showy," but they can be so beautiful in a more quiet way.

Granted, today places like Greece seem to have a smaller percentage of real beauties compared to places like Lithuania.

I can appreciate that. We really need to have a broad eugenics program, even if it's only an ingrained cultural attitude, that the most beautiful should have lots of kids.

I wonder how much of that disparity of several IQ points might have to do with the number of Christian monasteries in Southern Europe, as well as the length of time Christianity was practiced.

For over a thousand years, the Christians took a disproportionate amount of the most scholarly kids and locked them away in monasteries to lead lives of celibacy. The Jews were never subjected to this dysgenic practice, and in fact seemed to have a more eugenic attitude among themselves. By the end of the Middle Ages, Ashkenazis probably had the highest IQs in Europe.

Pick one, Christcuck

You just had to give yourself away by talking up the jews, didn't you?

Yeah. Because it's TRUE.

What is your point? I said Ashkenazi Jews. Israel is a mixture of Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Sephardic, and Muslim/Druze/Christian Arabs.

Christcuck detected.

You hate Christianity and love Jews, and you call me the cuck? You are using the same fallback tactics as Israelis when they are called out on their inferiority.

Is it just me, or wasn't the Greek origin of Phoenicians a fairly well known fact?

You aren't the brightest.

You have that right.

That map lacks accuracy. Finland was industrialized only after ww2. In the efficiency of it, we only lose to SK.

In terms of a rewarding life, there is a lot to be said for a combination of hunting-gathering and light agriculture/herding as opposed to living in the more densely populated civilizations to the south that were very reliant on grain crops.

It was actually more resilient to famine and bad crops as well.

Consider this; most of the people going for those positions had no interest in starting families of their own. Neither were they the only sons or daughters of their line- at least usually. Also, many men already had their families and descendants by the time they went for the monastic route.

Tesla didn't breed, neither did Newton. Intelligence is opposed to the bestial nature of breeding and the social behaviors associated with it. Monasteries taught others how to behave, read, write, cultivate the land…
They did more good than you give them praise. But such is the life in Freethinkingsville, you have to hate those who built this civilization of ours.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to demonstrate. The most Nordic nations are those of Scandinavia. The British Isles are a little unique for Northern European countries, because they have a strong Mediterranean component. There are terms to describe this, like Black Irish, but it is found all through the British Isles, with Wales being the most Med.

Your whole post is shot through with the weird Christian obsession with sex as something bad, a viewpoint that was unknown to pagans. The ancients disliked promiscuity and saw constant sexual stimulation as weakening, but otherwise they didn't care.

No, it has to do with me understanding that the way of knowledge leads to lack of popularity. Popularity is key to getting good marriages, even if they are arranged ones.

..which is why most families sent one of their sons to clergy, one to military, one for inheritance and so forth.

And then you use Tesla and Newton as examples. Are you claiming they were not successful or known?

It is amazing the knots you Christcucks tie yourselves into in order to justify your filthy fucking cult.

And which one will go to live in a monastery and study theology? Yeah, the one that is most scholarly/intellectual.

Where's that from? I can just tell I want to watch the whole thing.

You idiot, you can't just label every advance d country "mediterranean" regardless of geography or population. Britons are not Italian.

And yet in spite of this "dysgenic" Christian drain of intelligent genes, the white man led the world in science and technology over the centuries - and still does. Your theory does not correspond to reality.

There is lots of evidence on this score, here is a sample article walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/welsh-presenter-angharad-mair-digs-8461592

Read Dienekes and others.

What else could you justify with that bullshit style of argumentation?

Could you argue that niggers are good, because the United States has a lot of them and is sill the world's dominant superpower?

Nigga how fucking stupid are you?
The English themselves are pretty much the Dutch genetically, and everybody being there own little ethnic group. Meds have just as much claim to the native Britons as the fucking Germans do genetically.

There's been a lot of evidence Holla Forums has found that whites have actually unironically been the leadership of every prosperous reign, from India to the near east to north Africa and even the new world. Not even kidding.

Between whites and the eastern chinks we are the only races ever in history to have been competent rulers or drive eras of prosperity and innovation. We carry the world on our backs.

Of course no history book will write it because days rayciss. They bury, destroy, and overwrite truth just for fee fees. ROPE

Mein nigger.

During.. which time periods? Ramesses II at least.

If your argument was that niggers prevent the US from being a superpower, then it would be invalid. In real life niggers are not good, because they drive up the US's crime rate.
Your argument was that Christianity drove down the IQ of the population that practiced it, this does not correspond to reality. Like said, the intelligent genes were preserved by their brothers passing them on. And then you went full retard by planting your lips firmly on the Jewish dick. Next thing you will be defending the Kalergi Plan.

Dumbest post in the thread so far.

Funny, I'm not even arguing that the Brits have as much Mediterranean as they do Northern European, only that they have a strong Med admixture which contributes to the British looking quite different on average from Scandinavians. There are a much higher percentage of native people living there who look like they might have Spanish or Greek ancestry.

Anyway, to close this discussion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_the_British_Isles#Earliest_people

You don't even understand genetics.

well okay then.

Learn about phenotypes please. Burgers going on about 'muh white' are cancer.

There are no universal white features.

Simple question. White or non-white?

If there are no universal white features, then tell me how you came to your conclusion.

Not really, English are mix of neolithic farmers, western european hunter-gatherers and yamnaya indo-european invaders from steppe.

Neolthic farmers, Western European hunter-gatherers, Scandinavian hunter-gatherers later mixed with Indo-European invaders from steppe and adopted their language, see genetic studies here.

He meant native Europeans, moron.

Exactly. This occured around the time of the Greek overthrow of Minoans.

The Bible records a new enemy kicking ass in the time of Saul and David called Philistines. A word which in Hebrew means "Foreigner" Clearly they wouldn't call a preexisting Canaanite a foreigner.

Philistines had city states in Gaza, Gath, Mediterranean Sinai, and Phoenicia. Anywhere you could sail to in the region. They also had iron weapons and chariots a bit more advanced then the locals.

The Romans named the region after then when Jews were expelled in AD 69, calling it Palestine. A name it retains even after Arab conquest and expulsion of whites.

Let me know what is logically wrong with that statement.

that's whiteness, though.
whites, more easily than other races, can be faced with an existential crisis due to recessive genes. to coopt us physically isn't difficult. if there's any reason whites are more conscious and averse to what's happening these days, it's this.

also, if all subspecies of whites have recessive genes, then recessive genes are a universal feature.

See, the chart he posted, you'll know what he meant.

No, I asked a specific question.

Let me know how you can reference what are the universal features of a set without looking outside that set.

Let me know how you can describe as white or non-white if whites have no universal features.

It goes back farther than Atlantis, which was just a surviving remnant of a much greater civilization that had fallen from grace.

if those in the set exist, existence is a universal feature of the set.
if the set is human, then that is also a universal feature.
etc…

is this supposed to be some metaphysical sophistry that intends to make the point that each individual member is a distinct member of the set?

You actually don't know those things without looking outside the set.

No, I was just pointing out a retarded argument that was used:

is at the same level of faulty reasoning as

This would be a plausible explanation if not for the general global pattern of warm weather populations being dumber. Harsh winters are extremely eugenic, especially for farmers.

sweden 10th?
bullshit

go fuck yourself

So today, is a green/brown eyed pale person with brown hair white?

Well guys, could someone identify wtf is the genetic makeup of Northern Italians?
Ligurians, Etruscans, Latins, Celts, Germanics…
Just what the hell are they made up from?

i would assume south is mixed with arabs

most of the south's extra-european admixture is anatolian-caucasian i.e what the greeks also have, there's not much "arab" and most of it seems fairly old i.e ancient

consider that n. Italy from ancient Rome to the early modern era has basically been the richest and most urbanized/developed part of western Europe excluding perhaps the period immediately following the Gothic wars, I think IQ can be selected in few generations and the situation in n.Italy helped in that regard
same thing goes with ashkenazi jews for instance, overall they cluster among s.Italians/greeks but I think they underwent huge selective pressure in intellectual terms due to their exclusion from pleb tier activities in Europe during their history

but I would look at the proper sources to understand things better, iirc the last I study by that Finn guy who usually does this is based on PISA scores or something, which partly capture the g-factor but will also suffer from the quality of education, particularly bad in the south, especially when it comes to the overall small differences among Euros i.e going from a 95 to 105

ya, but thats in extremely low percentages. The asian genes in finns is very exaggerated for example. And its not like there is a spectrum of whiteness. There are different types of Europeans. A Swede looks different from an Irishman, but it doesnt mean one is more European than the other.

The ancient Egyptians portrayed their men as brown, i.e. tan from working outside, and their women as white.

Both genetics and ideology matter.

Genetics came first and underlie everything we are.

Ideology is clearly most important; our ability to utilize our genetic resources is clearly limited by culture, but genetics still influence our thoughts in subtle ways constantly in all area of thought.

It would be very foolish to assume any estimation of the influence of one over the other without a very thorough investigation.

It's different shades of brown, with the women being lighter from being indoors and the men being darker from being outdoors.

Bumping

Absolutely retarded thing to posit. By the time Alexander invaded, Greece was an olive place. We can debate exactly what the phenotype would have looked like, but it would have been something like today only with some more folk than today who had fairer hair, skin, and eyes due to the fact that the Doric invasion was more recent and the army (and the north of Greece really had similar demographics) was substantially composed of Macedonians and Thracians. Even so, I don't think Macedonians, Thracians, and Northern Greeks were by any stretch even as fair as Slavs.

I think that even around Alexander's time it's fair to say that the general face of Greece and Southern Italy were similar to today, though I think there's been a degree of change obviously.

You keep posting the same shit verbatim you fucking faggot. So let's get into the problems with these recent genetic studies: 1) sample size, 2) distribution (geographic and demographic), and 3) qualitative language. Cool, "(HERC2/OCA2 were less common in Aryans 3,500 than in some populations in Europe." Not that surprising really, but you're going to sit there and act like however many samples they have is a slam fucking dunk - even though among those samples they still have found HERC2/OCA2 in Aryans.

Let's say that Aryans mixed with Northern Euro hunter-gatherers and then the Aryan migrations happened. This would totally fuck with the timeline and it wouldn't explain any of the linguistic branches, nor would it explain the presence of blue eyes in places like the Tarim Basin and India unless you do some extreme 'just-so' hand waving. Setting these problems aside, you would have to explain the lack of Mt and Y haplogroup markers characteristic of Northern Europe that we find basically everywhere the Aryans settled and mixed. Places where you find - guess what - fair skin, fair hair, and blue eyes.

You're so god damn fucking stupid, just admit it already. Sanskrit texts were produced in like 2500 BC and Sanskrit definitely existed earlier than that. Germanic and Celtic were Western Aryan languages, basically two branches which were the last to diverge. Because the Slavs lived in the forest zone and mixed heavily with Scythians prior to Turkish migrations into that steppe zone, Slavic is more closely related to Persian and Sanskrit.

That's not what the hypothesis is though. You are strawmanning the timeline.
Aryans are ""born"" let's say at some point in the pontic-caspian steppe, they are a mix of eastern European hunter gatherers and some hunter gatherers from the caucasus. There are two branches of those though, a western and an eastern(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture). They are autosomally basically indistinguishable, but with different characteristics judging from the frequencies of the functional SNPs related to fair traits. In particular, the western ones seem particularly swarthy.

Moreover, while the eastern branch is overwhelmingly of Y-DNA haplogroup R1a, the western branch is of overwhelmingly Y-DNA R1b.

In this moment, western Europe has already been invaded by farmers as far as Scandinavia(~5000 years old farmer from there is Sardinian-like) and the impact on the aboriginal hunter gatherers is there already. Still, the hunter gatherers from Scandinavia seemed to already have higher frequencies for the presence of fair traits, and, like the hunter gatherers from west Europe, very high frequencies for blue eyes, meaning that selective pressure was already taking place anyway.

Now the invasion happens, westward and in various directions from north to south. In particular, the balkanic route heads towards Greece, while a more northern route reaches n. Germany and Scandinavia in general, and then you also have a route towards central Europe.

Are you fucking dumb? Where in the world do we find Nordic/Germanic Y-DNA Haplogroup I1a outside Scandinavia? Haplogroup I itself is Western European hunter-gatherer/Scandinavian hunter-gatherer haplogroup, it's native Paleolithic/Mesolithic haplogroup of Europe and has nothing to do with steppe-Indo-Europeans.

Steppe Indo-Europeans were R1a, and it's ancestor R originated in Central Asia, not Northern Europe. It came to Europe with Indo-European invasion.

Images related : Notice how in second chart, Scandianvian hunter-gatherers and Western European hunter-gatherers do not** cluster with Yamnaya Indo-Europeans? Indo-European has close pull towards it's ancestor aka "Ancient North Eurasian", which peaks in Siberia. Yes, they were very "asian" looking at some point in history.

Indo-Europeans were (mix of Eastern European hunter-gatherers + caucasus hunter-gatherers)

Eastern European hunter-gatherers are direct decedents of "Ancient North Eurasians".

As haak et al puts it "Russia was inhabited by a distinctive population of hunter-gatherers with high affinity to a ~24,000-year-old Siberian"

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

That's because your moronic timeline only includes first wave of Indo-European migrations, not the others.

There were MANY waves of Indo-European migrations. If you see blonde hair and blue eyes in places like Afghanistan or Tarim Basin, they were part of 3rd of 4th wave of Indo-European migration ex: Scythians and Tocharians who arrived as late as 2nd century B.C - 4th century AD to that region after mixing with Slavs.

The first wave migrations ex : Persians and Medes who arrived as early as 2200 BC, din't look that different from Steppe-Indo-Europeans who had brown hair and brown eyes.

That's true, Finns and Baltics are both predominantly native "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers".

Uralic and Indo-Europeans shared same ancestors "Ancient North Eurasians" and both of these migrants mixed with native Scandinavian hunter-gatherers.

It's not weird, Ethiopia has been the main re-invasion point for Eurasians into Africa for millennia. Of course their prettiest girls look kind of European; that's how a bell curve works.

I wouldn't say "well-known". The Hittite (i.e., Nesili) kingdoms were doing business with Ugaritic kings, and the Mitanni seem to have been a small super-stratum, so no is 100% sure how much IE was mixed into Pune. On the other hand, the Canaanites themselves might have been most Indo-European (relatives of the Hittites and the Greeks). The Philistines certainly were; Goliath is probably a Semitic transcription of the Phrygian Algaades, cognate for Alexander.

Lol no. There is no evidence to that effect, and plenty against it.

Bzzz, invalid inference. The Vedic Hymns are extremely clear about the Aryan phenotype and are pissed off that it's being lost over time (due to the submersion of a tiny invasion force in a sea of Dravidian genes). Indo-Iranian ancestors were blonde and blue-eyed. And the Persians were still notably fair-skinned in 250BC, two millennia later.

[citation needed]

Go peddle your nordicists bullshit somewhere else if you don't have genentic studies to back up your claims.

Aryans aka Proto-Indo-Europeans looked like "Southern Europeans", according to genetic studies.

Aryans were never blonde or blue eyed to begin with, they looked like Southern Europeans according to genetic studies.
"The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence."

I repeat

"Overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European."

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

This should be common sense. The Nostratic lingual superfamily is almost consensus for decades now.

Wilde et al 2014 already debuked your theory: "It seems that light pigmentation traits had already existed in pre-Indo-European Europeans (both farmers and hunter-gatherers) and so long-standing philological attempts to correlate them with the arrival of light-pigmented Indo-Europeans from the steppe (or indeed anywhere), and to contrast them with darker pre-Indo-European inhabitants of Europe were misguided."

Scandinavian hunter-gatherers carried genetic alleles for Nordic phenotype (HERC2/OCA2) and they were NOT*** Indo-Europeans. They were just another population Indo-Europeans mixed with and spread out again.

Indo-Europeans did not carry those allies according to genetic studies.

Haak et al 2015 : Neolthic farmers, Western European hunter-gatherers, Scandinavian hunter-gatherers.

Haak et al 2015 and Wilde et al 2014 ~ Indo-Europeans had brown hair, brown eyes and were slightly darker than modern Europeans. In other words, they "looked" like Southern Europeans.

Haak et al 2015 ~ The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al.: - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence.

Wilde et al 2014 ~ The study seems to confirm the results of Wilde et al. on steppe groups, as the Yamnaya had a very low frequency of the HERC2 derived "blue eye" allele and a lower frequency of the SLC45A2 "light skin" allele than any modern Europeans.

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

nature.com/nature/journal/v528/n7583/abs/nature16152.html

pnas.org/content/111/13/4832.abstract

sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

...

I know English isn't your first language, but I don't want to cut you any slack because you keep repeating yourself.

Precisely my point. Yet you seem to have made the claim here:

(Where exactly are you claiming they spread to? To my knowledge, before the migration era starting around 100 BC or so, this group basically constituted the nascent Germanic peoples and they stuck to Scandinavia and the northern coast of Germany.)

Where exactly is the evidence for this? I'll agree that I don't think the steppe migrations occurred in one giant surge, and obviously there were multiple movements. One could cite a decent number based just off what we know from history. Still, this doesn't support the notion that all blond hair/blue eye alleles appear solely because of late movements in those regions just prior to heavy Semitic and Altaic movements.

Yeah, there's literary evidence where the Greeks considered Thracians, Dacians, and especially Celts too be too pale for their tastes, while Egyptians and some others were too swarthy. The Greeks thought of themselves and a few other Mediterraneans as the happy medium. You could say this is an Attic conceit or something but nonetheless it points to the fact that even if as in Italy there was a more substantial elite who represented a 'purer' Aryan phenotype back then as compared with now, relative to the majority of the folk around them, it nonetheless means that there isn't some huge discontinuity between the average lay Greek or Italian around 50 BC and today. There has been some shift, to be sure, but I don't believe for a second that the degree of change is as drastic as you make it seem.

Nothern Italians are Lombards (came to Italy in 527 from Northern Germany) and other Cisalpine gaul populations.
Center Italy is also full of high-IQ people as they are Etruscan/Greek descendants.

it's so tiring to hear this bullshit over and over again
n. Italians are mediterraneans by any measure with an indo-Euro input from the bronze age
they even pull more south than Iberians on a simple PCA

...

WE WAS KINGS UND SCHEISSE

Haplogroup =/= Autosomal DNA. Autosomal DNA calculates your entire genetic ancestry, various layers of admixtures from various populations, you are still going have Cro-magnon ancestry even if you don't carry their y-dna or mt-dna.

This selection process/admixture happened in what is now Baltic region where Indo-Europeans encountered "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers".

Indo-Europeans did not carry blond hair/ blue eye genetic alleles (HERC2/OCA2) until they encountered "Scandnaivna hunter-gatherers", they were just another population they conquered and mixed with, elites being predominantly R1a and R1b while natives Northern Europeans/Scandinavians being predominantly I1a and N1c.

Scythians and Tocharians are part of later Indo-European migrations to Tarim Basin, they were literally new wave of Indo-Europeans who now carried (HERC2/OCA2) through selection process that happened in Baltics and Eastern Europe.

Why would Indo-Europeans have nordic phenotype (HERC2/OCA2) when their ancestors "Ancient North Eurasians" never had them?

Indo-Europeans and Uralic shared same ancestors aka "Ancient North Eurasians" ~ neither of them had blonde hair/blue eyes/pale skin but both of them migrated and mixed with "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" who had nordic phenotype.

Ancient North Eurasians = Eastern European hunter-gatherers = Indo-Europeans (mix from "cradle" as in EEH who encountered Caucasus hunter gatherers).

Based on Autosomal DNA studies, Kets are closest population to "Ancient North Eurasians".

nature.com/articles/srep20768

Forgot to tag your ID see here

Only Romans and Greeks, Germanic were bunch of barbarian savages.

What if they weren't white and one of them just racemixed?

He was never white to begin with.

Finding ONE mtdna U5b2c1 does not make Semitic-Phonecians "Europeans" or "White".

Why? because mtDNA U5 is pretty common in local Berber populations of North Africa.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U_(mtDNA)#Haplogroup_U5

What is sure though is that U5b2c1 is not Phoenician/Levantine. It's most likely to be local Berber/Carthaginian or trader from Iberian.

Phoenicians had big empire, covered all coastal Mediterranean countries, which is made up of various diverse population.

Note : his mt-DNA comes from North Africa, not Phoenician homeland in near-east/fertile crescent.

100% wrong.

The Yamna people are the forerunners of the Afanasevo culture of Kazakhstan, who are the forerunners of the Tarim basin people's.

The Tarim basin mummies are literally 6'6 and blonde.

See:

100% wrong(Afanasevo are the eastern branch, autosomally similar but not samefags)
the Yamna people are literally tall and brown
see the actual genetic studies he is quoting

Dumb fucking Nordicist-nigger, if you don't have genetic studies to back up your claims then don't bother.

blonde.

Those Tarim mummies are late-Indo-European migrations ex Sythians and Tocharians after

Afanasevo is not Proto-Indo-European like Yamnaya, it's late Indo-European cultre like "Cordware culture" where dark haired, brown eyed Indo-Europeans mixed with Scandinavian hunter-gatherers with blond hair/blue eyes/pale skin.

See this genetic study post and look at the chart.

and, also this post includes all genetic studies

Indo-Europeans never had nordic phenotype because they're ancestors were "Ancient North Eurasians" aka modern day Siberians. They only received these traits after mixing with "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers".

True, and the Easter branches decedents from Cordware culture, where IE and Non-IE mixed. see this chart here

I have always agreed in that respect, blond hair was an odd culturaI thing, I have no idea why they idolised it so except for a position on beauty.
Saxons, anglos and Roman decendants are what carried civilisation and science, not "Nordic" DNA.

If anything, swedes dominating in height is like Africans dominating in musclemass, they are literally snowniggers

You'd be surprised how many romans left their nosey genetic mark on the French and English peoples.

Heck, I have a Woe-man nose despite being mostly welsh (The true English)

No, it's not just the Tarim Basin mummies, kike. Of the 26 Afanasevo mummies (who are contemporary with the Andronovo horizon, and so obviously earlier than your idiot "Scandinavian hunter-gatherer" theory), 60% had light hair and light (blue or green) eyes.

No one is wasting time with your jewed-up jpegs because everything you say shows you have zero grasp of the archaeogenetics research involved. You can shriek "Noooordicist" or any other heeby label you like until you're blue in the face, but it's pretty obvious that the descendants of the original Indo-Europeans who were most insulated from adjacent agricultural/pastoral civilizations would see the least admixture and best preserve the IE phenotype, which is extensively documented in ancient literature.

Even with all the genetic studies keep pouring in, you still want to live in your little pseudo- history fantasies? screams low IQ to me, like Afrocentric niggers.

Learn timeline of Indo-European cultures, you stupid Nordicist-nigger.

Afansevo culture came AFTER Cordware culture when Indo-Europeans mixed with Scandnaivan hunter-gatherers who carried nordic phenotype (HERC2/OCA2). See map explained here

Link to genetic study nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

Uh, really? the study is based on 69 ancient Yamnaya burials from steppe aka Proto-Indo-European homeland.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture#Characteristics

More Nordicist fantasies.

Least admixed Indo-Europeans would have looked like their Siberian ancestors, very asian with other half being Caucasus hunter gatherers ancestry ~ this was when they became "Indo-Europeans".

Genetic studies show what they looked like : - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence.

Why the fuck would they have nordic phenotype when they're ancestors were Ancient North Eurasians aka modern day Siberians? Indo-Europeans in their steppe homeland did not have genetic alleles for Nordic phenotype (HERC2/OCA2), only Scandinavian hunter-gatherers did and they were not** Indo-Europeans.

Kets (Siberian tribe) are closest living population to Ancient "North Eurasians" aka Indo-Europeans ancestors.

nature.com/articles/srep20768

"Western European hunter-gatherers" and "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" and do NOT cluster with Indo-Europeans or with Indo-European ancestors "Ancient North Eurasians".

I thought we've known for years that the Phoenecians were Mediterranean? I remember being taught this in HS over a decade ago.

Lotsa Africans dominating strongman competitions, huh? Just like they dominate cock size.

hint: they're near the bottom of either

Only Romans and Hellenics.

Saxons or Anglos (Germanics) just adopted Roman culture.

at least I'm not nig nog or jewish, but hey at least we actually were kangz at some point.

sorry m8 I'm with you on the nordicist stuff being stupid but this is wrong, Corded ware culture as you have said is already a mix of these "aryans" and old-Europe, Afanasevo culture on the other hand is directly related to the Yamnaya culture and autosomally indistinguishable from those, not to mention it comes before CW
east euro hunter gatherers were already fairly fair looking, the mixing of Yamnaya with Scandi hunter gatherers is what made the western aryans fair, but eastern ones already were

moreover, it's not true ANE is the ancestor of said proto-IE, they were ANE shifted in part depending on how you model things, but basically EHG = WHG + ANE, with the ANE input being small
same goes with the CHG who also seemed to have some ANE input

ENG = As haak et al puts it "Russia was inhabited by a distinctive population of hunter-gatherers with high affinity to a ~24,000-year-old Siberian"

You can see how close it clusters with it's ancestor ANE.

indeed they were pretty damn different but one should also take into account genetic drift, the affinity with the european hunter gatherers also seems to be there, I mean I don't think it's correct to say ANE is the ancestor of the EHG, the split of WHG and ANE comes after the split of west non-africans and east non-africans, maybe EHG is an intermediate population

They still cluster with their ancestors of Ancient North Eurasians, more than any other populations. That means they were still very Siberian-shifted when they became Indo-Europeans.

"Ancestral North Eurasians" aka Indo-European ancestors carried Y-DNA Haplogroup R and Mt-DNA haplogroup U. They were "Mongoloid" looking then.

"Ancient North Eurasians" most likely come from Mal'ta-Buret' culture, that flourished in Siberia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal'ta-Buret'_culture

Their Siberian-shifted descendants "Eastern European hunter-gatherer" (very asian) became Indo-Europeans, later they mixing with Caucasus Hunter -gatherers (very med).

Pic related : Eastern branches of Indo-European cultures descend from Cordware culture (after mixing of I.E and non-IE), like oldest Indo-Iranians cultures for example.

Eastern Branch aka Andronovo comes after Cordware culture.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture#Subcultures

but how can the eastern branch derive from Cordedware if they don't have signs of old europe within them?
afanasevo are autosomally indistinguishable from the Yamnaya
can I get a source on this? afaik this idea is the old one before genetics came into the picture, which assumed cordware culture as the urheimat of IE culture

Yes, they do, you have to look at their Autosomal DNA, not just Y-dna or Mt-dna.

3rd pic related : Autosomal DNA of Uyghurs aka descendants of "Tocharian mummies", they carry every ancestry Indo-Europeans conquered and mixed with.

blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/11/no-romans-needed-to-explain-chinese-blondes/#.V1B7noR97IU

It's from Allentoft et al (2015)

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/full/nature14507.html

Yamnaya ( I.E steppe homeland) ==> Corded ware (mix of I.E and Old Europe) ==> Andronovo/Sintasta.

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

Ancient North Eurasians (Siberians) ==> Eastern European hunter-gatherer (siberian shifted) + Cacucaus hunter-gatherers (dark caucasoid) ==> Indo-Europeans ==> Invade Europe from steppe ==> Mix with local Scandinavian hunter-gatherers + Western European hunter-gatherers ==> Cordware culture ==> Eastern branch splits from CW in Eastern Europe ==> Andronovo culture.

I agree, but it's mostly northern europeans on here who obsess over it.

I agree, but it's mostly northern europeans on here who obsess over it.

are near-easterners considered Mediterranean? I'm don't think so m8

Saxons, Angles, Jutes, Danes etc were all just different tribes of what was essentially the same racial group.

Until, like, the rise of Islam, "near-easterners" or Semites, were a tiny minority of the population of the Middle East, being confined in the Arab Penninsula and the now Israeli Coast.
Everywhere else was Mediterranean Old Whites, similar to Southern Europeans.

sorry, I'm late

Now, this thread is reaching a final consensus, probably led by you, Mr. Yamnaya, I would like to see if I understood it correctly:

1. Be Siberian Man thousands of years ago.
2. Migrate East and don't mix, be branded Mongoloid.
3. Migrate West and mix with Caucasoids, became Indo-Europeans.
4. Caucasoids are basically Southern Europeans, maybe a little bit more Asiatic, who have a completely Asiatic Culture.
5. 5000 BC, the "starting point" of Indo-Europeans as we know.
6. Pic related happens, which means that some people start to separate from the main Indo-European group trough waves of migrations.
7. Some time in this process, the Indo-Europeans mix with Nordics, gaining their characteristic Light Hair, Light Eyes and Lighter Skin.

Well, if what I said is correct, by 3700 BC they had already mixed with Nordics, because Tocharians were known Red/Blondes and "established" themselves as the typical and branded "Aryans", and those "Aryans" were the ones to spread everywhere.
This kind of comprove the whole "Nordic Stereotype" of the Indo-European spreaders, and why these characteristics can be found trough a large area in Eurasia. It also confirms the "North Pole Homeland" that the Aryans describe in the Vedas.

So, we can say this(?):
''Proto-Indo-Europeans were Siberian peoples, very Mongoloid - they mixed with Pre-Indo-European Caucasoids, and lost their physical appearence to a great degree but retained their culture. Then Nordics descended into Eastern Europe and mixed with them, losing again their physical appearance and becoming Nordics essentially, but still retaining their culture.
In the end, this new "Nordic Indo-European" spread to the four quarters of the world, being labeled then, THE Indo-European.''

Funny enough this is similar to an old family legend from my Finn blood-kin.

The legend goes:
Our ancestors were born in Siberia and lived as Mongols for centuries. Our blood migrated west as Khan conquered more and more territories. Eventually our blood traveled through Scandanavia over several generations to settle in Finland.

except Genghis Khan's empire existed in the 1200's and Finns are not mongolian genetically.

Also, there's no way of knowing if the East Migrant's Culture were the Indo-European one.
It could very well be that the Caucasoids were already culturally Indo-Europeans bu themselves and only mixed with the Easterners by chance and randomly in this whole history.

This could also be inferred regarding the Nordics, which have no attested or accepted Pre-Indo-European language. This could indicate that Nordica brought the Indo-European language to the Caucasoids, who are known to have spoke other languages besides IE as well.

Where is your chart from and what study? It looks outdated, it also looks like Anatolian hypothesis which is not accepted even by historians.

Currently accepted theory is Kurgan hypothesis aka Yamnaya P.I.E Homeland NOT Anatolian hypothesis.

NO.

Proto-Indo-European speaking Eastern European hunter-gatherers(Siberian shifted) domesticated the horse and invented the chariot, then conquered and assimilated the Caucasus hunter-gatherers who had MOVED north of the Caucasus.

Not "some time", this admixture between I.E and Non-I.E happened in Corded Ware Culture.

Europeans encountered Scandinavian-hunter gatherers in Baltic region, which lead to Corded Ware Culture in Europe. Where they admixed with native Northern Europeans, acquiring fair phenotype.

Geneticlly, Tocharians are "Eastern Branch" of I.E which split after Corded Ware culture.

I have posted their autosomal DNA of Uyghurs here along with link to source

Correct.

And their Siberian ancestral Y-dna and Mt-dna.

If anything Nordics DILUTED "pure" Aryan/Indo-Europeans. They were just another population Indo-Europeans mixed with, just like everywhere they invaded.

"Pure" Aryans/Indo-Europeans would have looked like Siberians.

The position of Anatolian on the chart is legit for the Kurgan hypothesis. The basic David Anthony theory is: Anatolians left the homeland first, then the Tocharians (Afanasevo horizon), then the Indo-Iranians (Andronovo horizon migrates down to BMAC), then the Greeks move south, then the Italo-Celts are the Corded War people.

The problem with all this is that Italo-Celtic seems close to German, German seems close to Baltic and (kinda) Slavic, and Slavic is really close with Indo-Iranian; and Tocharian seems the second-most diverged in some ways, but of the sister languages it is closest to Italo-Celtic/Germanic.

So putting I-I, B-S, and Germanic at the bottom as a "dialect continuum" is kind of unorthodox but it's not crazy, and definitely fits with Kurgan.

No, not at all. The primary fork between the Euro/West Asian genomes and the East Asian genomes was circa 25 kya. The Indo-Europeans formed 5,000 years ago as a mix of European hunter-gatherers exiting the glacial refugium in the Balkans and Caucasians moving north from Maikop. Then subsequently an admixed population began to grow in Central Asia (you can see this happening in Afanasevo, where 100% of the men and 40% of the women had IE haplogroups; you can see the same thing in the Tarim Basin mummies; today, IE yDNA is around 3%-13% of NE Asian haplotypes, except in Japan).

I think you are maybe being sarcastic, but just to be clear, the so-called "Nordic" features that were typical of the IE, and present in 60% of the Afanasevo mummies, as well as attested among the ancient Aryans and Achaeans by their own literature, were part of the original IE genetic mix and subsequently were labelled "Nordic" because they were best-preserved around the Baltic Sea.

Since this is an "argue about genetics shit" thread, I'm wondering–does anyone here know about the Neanderthal-Oriental connection? Chinese are often called "the jews of Asia" and apparently orientals have significant jew/neander admixture. Also Amerinds. Anyone have data on this? Orientals have always been cited weird as fuck origins/genetics in evolutionary studies, perhaps because their true background isn't kosher for goyim to know.

I had a thought earlier that maybe they're Australoid-Neanderthal mixtures. They have big nasal openings and broad noses, yet noses are flattened presumably from extreme cold pressure selection (e.g. from Toba event). Then again, it seems all non-Europoid/Aryan hominids have wide nasal openings. Also sloped foreheads and prognathism and strong brow bones. Pic related.

absolutely revisionist.jpg
no uniform or markings visible from a distance = no rights
do not pass go
do not collect $200
proceed directly to summary execution
them's the rules you fucking commies

Nigger, I grabbed it off ixquick because I remembered the shooter's very distinct morphology. Idgaf about SE Asia politics, and didn't renamed the file. Don't be an autist spaz.

We're not that mutt tbh, even in the most extreme cases saxon genes are only like 20%. The thing people forget about all the invasions is it was only soldiers and noblemen, not a lot of people.

Native celts that lived under saxon rule were considered saxons by everyone else. Just do what I do and go for "Briton" instead of muh anglo genes mustard rice like so many faggots.

Not widely accepted by historians or genetic studies.

Indo-Europeans aka Eastern European hunter-gatherer (siberian shifted) is not "closely" related to Scandinavian hunter-gatherer or West European hunter-gatherers.

They still looked Siberian when they became Indo-Europeans, before assimilating CHG.

As haak et al 2015 clearly says on EHG :- "Russia was inhabited by a distinctive population of hunter-gatherers with high affinity to a ~24,000-year-old Siberian"

And, EHG aka Indo-Europeans clusters closely with it's ancestor ANE more than ANY other population.

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

1st chart related : EHG/Yamnya cluster close to it's ancestor Ancient North Eurasians while SHG and WHG are outer group.

Indo-Europeans did not carry genetic alleles (HERC2/OCA2), only "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" did and they were not Indo-Europeans.

This admixture between Indo-Europeans and "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" happened in Baltics, when Indo-Europeans invaded Europe.

There is no genetic proof that Afanasevo had nordic phenotype.

Based on Autosomal DNA, their so called descendants aka "Tocharians" were clearly product of admixture that happened in Corded Ware Culture.

Your mistake here : - You are assuming Afensovoa had nordic phenotype because Tocharian/Tarim mummies in China did, who were fact product of later waves of Indo-Europeans migrations aka Corded ware admixture that happened back in Europe.

2nd map related : After Yamnaya invasion of Europe ==> Corded Ware Culture (Mix of IE & Non-IE) ==> Now "mixed-Indo-Europeans" split in different directions, forming new branches of I.E tree.

This is what Indo-Europeans looked like when they invaded Europe based on genetic studies : - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. (Haak et al, 2015)

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

More genetic studies about your "Afanasevo" and Tarim Mummies aka "Andronovo".

"This eastern branch of the Yamnaya (or Afanasievo) persisted in central Asia and, perhaps, Mongolia and China until they themselves were replaced by fierce warriors in chariots called the Sintashta Culture also known as the Andronovo culture."

sciencemag.org/news/2015/06/nomadic-herders-left-strong-genetic-mark-europeans-and-asians

We already talked about how Andronovo/Sintashta culture split from Corded Ware culture (mix of I.E & Non I.E) in Eastern Europe after acquiring nordic phenotype from local Scandinavian hunter-gatherers.

Afansonos (Old I.E) were replaced by new (mixed I.E's) who now came from Corded Ware Culture, formed Andronovo culture and invaded Afansonos.

According to genetic studies, Tarim mummies are product of Andronovo Culture aka Late Bronze Age - Early Iron Age, in other words, second wave of I.E's who came from Corded Ware culture (Mix of I.E & Non I.E) that happened in Europe.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-009-0683-0

I don't think that's true, they have always been semitic if we were to go by haplogroup J.

Genetically, Aryans/Indo-Europeans, Uralic and Altai share same ancestors aka Siberian nomads. Indo-Europeans were just another mongoloid-ish expansion into Europe.

Native Europeans were not Indo-European ancestors, they were just another population they mixed with.

Reminds me of what happened during Mongol Empire. Mongol males + various local females. This is very similar to how Indo-Europeans expanded into Europe.

Yeah, they had some roman genes too by the time saxons arrived.

I'm pretty sure they are called Germanic.

You're not getting me today

bump for interest

what about Hannibal. I hear he settled on Europe instead of going back to carthage. I believe he must have a european features then?

what sort of interest?

finn-swed not jew, sorry pal.

OYYY VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY

"Double Niggers"

Most of Northern European culture isn't Aryan/Indo-European, it's Funnelbeaker culture. They still followed traces of this non-Aryan culture until they were Christianized.

Viking burials for example is similar to this non-Aryan Funnelbeaker culture (ex: rock arrangements around burials).

This Non-Aryan culture was some what related to Liner Pottery culture in Central Europe and parts of Northern Europe which existed until Indo-Europeans/Aryans invaded. Funnelbeaker culture was eventually incorporated into Corded Ware Culture where (I.E and Non-IE mixed).

Funnelbeaker culture could have spoken language related to Vinca civilization, if we were to go by Y-dna I1a and I2a.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funnelbeaker_culture

Aryans were just another population who mixed with Nordics, just like Uralic speakers did before them.

Genetically, If we were to trace back Indo-European ancestors they would look straight up mongoloids, from Mal'ta-Buret' culture in Siberia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal'ta-Buret'_culture .

9 feet body found in Wisconsin tomb
Nigga that's 2.74 meters! WTF?

We wuz giants n shieet?
We wuz Annunaki n shieeet?

Tagged wrong person, this post was for this ID ==>

...

You still didn't addressed the problem that you have 3 groups who met and mixed with eachother in the Eurasian Steppes:

Who were the ones who wers culturally the Proto-Indo-Europeans? Considering that their triple-mixing gave birth to the Indo-Europeans.

Also, there's a saying in paleontology that says: Pots are not People.
The link between specific pots to specific cultures to specific peoples has been debubked time after time.

wollywogs

I clicked to post by mistake.
Continuing

So, considering that the First group to separate from the Indo-European core at the steppes were the Anatolians, and that they were already phenotipically Nordics, you can rule out the Siberians as the core Indo-Europeans, as they were just a sub-group that mixed with Caucasoids from the Steppes by chance.

Now, remaning Nordics and Caucasoids, who spoke PIE and IE originally? I think there's no way of knowing that by now, but the prevalence of loanwords into Uralic people makes a case for the Caucasoids, not the Nordics.

Let's not forget that Uralic languages originated in the Western Urals, not the Eastern, making even more difficult for contact with the Mongoloid Siberians, who would have to pass through the Caucasoids to access them.

So, what you've been saying all this time about the Yamnya are extremely conjectural regarding they being the original PIE/IE (as is inferring the same about Caucasoids or Nordics), because although it can be verified that they lived once in the region, the same can't be said about their language, or traditions - only that they mixed with Caucasoids, but again, what if the Caucasoids were already Culturally IE?

This makes even more sense if we compare the Exported culture of the Indo-Europeans, which is present in all Europe, Iran, India and the rest of the Near East, but completely absent in the isolated regions of Siberia.

My final point is:

...

I have already addressed this here along with genetic studies.

Proto-Indo-Europeans were Eastern Hunter-gatherers (siberian shifted) drawn-chariot, then conquered and assimilated the Caucasus hunter-gatherers who had MOVED north of the Caucasus.

Their ancestors were Ancient North Eurasians, just like Uralic ancestors were.

**Proto-Indo-Europeans were Eastern Hunter-gatherers (siberian shifted) domesticated the horse and invented horse-drawn-chariot, then conquered and assimilated the Caucasus hunter-gatherers who had MOVED north of the Caucasus.

Phoenicianised Sea Person tbh, if you aren't sea people you aren't "we" people

It's the other way around, you're peddling pseudo-theories here.

If Indo-Europeans were Nordic, Indo-Europeans would cluster with "Scandianvian hunter-gatherers" not "Ancient North Eurasians" aka Siberians.

Nordics were just another population they mixed with in Corded Ware culture.

So you sayin, before Indogenghis cultural enrichment, we wuz churkas n shiet?

I don't know what the fuck churkas is.

If you're asking who lived in Europe before Indo-European invasion then: - Neolthic farmers in Southern Europe, Western European hunter-gatherers, Scandinavian hunter-gatherers.

...

There's nothing to prove your side either.
I don't doubt that the Yamnyas were mongoloids who mixed with Caucasoids and from the group, the Indo-Europeans were born.
What I'm contesting is which was the original PIE and which was the random one.
Also, I didn't say Nordic - I actually discarded it as PIEs - I said Caucasoids from the Steppes.

This. Take the Samoyeds in account. They are probably the major linguistic group that is the closest to the common IE/Uralic ancestor.

This is the fundamental thing you crazy kids don't get. "Nordic" is a historical kind, not a natural kind. We describe the peculiar phenotype characteristic of unadmixed IE populations as "Aryan" because that is what one IE group (Indo-Iranic) called itself immediately before the conquest/admixture events, or as "Nordic" because the phenotype survives most notably in the Nordic countries.

There is nothing magical about fjords that makes people necessarily Nordic! The "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" didn't magically get Nordic phenotypes from living near fjords. Read this:

eupedia.com/forum/threads/29799-More-DNA-from-stone-age-European(Swedish)-farmers-and-hunter-gatherers

tl;dr - Approximately 0% of paternal ancestry of modern Swedes and Balts dates back to mesolithic Sweden. Mapped onto a PCA of modern European aDNA, some mesolithic samples cluster with Sardinians while others don't cluster with any modern European group.

This is kind of a misunderstanding. "Gothic" became a term used to mean "barbarous" in Latin around 300AD. There was a natural progression from Roman temples/churches, to Romanesque churches, to medieval/Gothic churches. In the Renaissance the medieval style was widely hated and so described as "Gothic" (i.e., barbarous), but it was still in the Roman tradition (which is why in literature, Romantic and Gothic name the same tendency, the post-classical turn).

Yeah, there's no evidence for very much "mongoloid" admixture with the PIE. The Afanasievo and Xiaohe mummies, who certainly did have mongoloid admixture (lots of East Asian mtDNA), had extremely high rates of fair features (like 60%). If that slightly admixed group still had such fair features, the PIE (to whom Afanasievo is very close) would have been even fairer.

(For the similarity of Afanasievo aDNA to Yamanaya aDNA, see "Population genetics of Bronze Age Eurasia" Nature 522, 2015 iirc)

"Ancient North Eurasians" : - Ancestors of Indo-Europeans are living in North-Central Siberia.

Mal'ta-Buret' culture : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal'ta-Buret'_culture

Some move down to plains of Northern-Kazakhstan, where they tame and domesticate wild horses.

Botai culture : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botai_culture

"Ancestral North Eurasian"s descendant "Eastern Hunter-gatherer" split into different tribes aka "Eurasiatic languages" = Indo-European, Uralic and Altai.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasiatic_languages

Making of Indo-Europeans : - They move west into Yamnaya "Forest steppe" and "steppe plains" from Kazakasthan.

1. First mix - Proto-Indo-European speaking Eastern European hunter-gatherers (Siberian shifted) domesticated the horse and invented the chariot, then conquered and assimilated the Caucasus hunter-gatherers who had MOVED north of the Caucasus into steppe.

2. Second mix : Indo-Europeans invade Europe from Yamnaya, conquer non-Aryans "Liner Potter Culture" and "Funnelbeaker culture" aka "Western European hunter-gatherers" and "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" which leads to Corded Ware culture.

Indo-Europeans now acquire some nordic phenotype, after mixing with "Scandinavian hunter-gatherer" women who carried genetic alleles (HERC2/OCA2).

3. Corded Ware culture : Now, "mixed-Indo-Europeans" split in different directions, forming new branches of I.E languages we know today.

I already proved you wrong with genetic studies.

This is what Indo-Europeans looked like when they invaded Europe based on genetic studies : - They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. (Haak et al, 2015)

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

Based on Autosomal DNA studies, Kets are closest population to "Ancient North Eurasians".

nature.com/articles/srep20768

Follow the Indo-European timeline, idiot.

Ancient North Eurasians (Siberians) ==> Proto-Indo-Europeans aka Eastern hunter-gatherer (siberian shifted) ==> Proto-Indo-Europeans/Eastern Hunter-gatherers mix with conquered "Cacucaus hunter-gatherers" (dark caucasoid) who moved to Yamnaya steppe from Caucasus ==> Indo-Europeans Invade Europe from Yamnaya steppe ==> Mix with local Scandinavian hunter-gatherers + Western European hunter-gatherers (acquire light phenotype) ==> Cordware culture (I.E and Non-I.E mix) ==> Now, "mixed-Indo-Europeans" split in different directions, forming new branches of I.E culture ==> Andronovo culture.

Genetic studies about your "Afanasievo" and Xiaohe mummies aka "Andronova".

"This eastern branch of the Yamnaya (or Afanasievo) persisted in central Asia and, perhaps, Mongolia and China until they themselves were replaced by fierce warriors in chariots called the Sintashta Culture also known as the Andronovo culture."

sciencemag.org/news/2015/06/nomadic-herders-left-strong-genetic-mark-europeans-and-asians

Afansonos aka Yamnaya-like (Old I.E) were replaced by new (mixed I.E's) who came from Corded Ware Culture in Europe ==> Andronovo culture ==> invaded Afansonos.

According to genetic studies, Xiaohe/Tarim mummies are product of Andronovo Culture (second millennium BC. to the fourth century AD), in other words, second wave of I.E's who came from Corded Ware culture (Mix of I.E & Non I.E) that happened in Europe.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-009-0683-0

Actually, it is most likely that The movement was West->East, not how you're proposing, if we analyse Linguistic studies.

Uralic languages emerged West of the Urals by Europeans Hunter-Gatherers and moved East into Mongoloid territory.
Then, those same Mongoloids moved West again, and we all know the story of the Sami etc etc

IE was born in Ukraine/Caucasus/Steppes and were possibly invaded by Mongoloids.

Really, read "The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World by David W. Anthony".

It's linguistic impossible to have the East->West movement, everything appoints to the West->East movement.

That's from six years ago. Think of how much we've learned since then. Go read that Nature article from last year that i cited.

Cool blawg dude. You know the writer has zero credentials? If you want to know about the aftermath of Afanasievo read JP Mallory's new article - it's called "The Search for Tocharian Origins" or something like that, it is very, very extensive (and interesting, assuming IE history is a passion for you and not just a trolling thing).

But if you don't have time to read the whole thing, Afanasievo was replaced by the Okunevo horizon, not Andronovo.

Genetic studies from Wilde et al 2014 and Haak et al 2015.

Wilde et al 2014 : The study seems confirm the results of on steppe groups, as the Yamnaya had a very low frequency of the HERC2 derived "blue eye" allele and a lower frequency of the SLC45A2 "light skin" allele than any modern Europeans.

Haak et al 2015 : They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. Surprisingly, given their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence.

pnas.org/content/111/13/4832.abstract
nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

If Indo-Europeans did not carry genetic alleles for Nordic phenotype, then who did?

Scandinavian hunter-gatherers, that's who! They carried HERC2/OCA2 which causes, blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin.

"If anything, it seems that the "fairest of them all" were the Scandinavian hunter-gatherers, and a combination of light/dark pigmentation was also present in Neolithic farmers and Western Hunter Gatherers in various combinations."

"In the far north—where low light levels would favor pale skin—the team found a different picture in hunter-gatherers: Seven people from the 7700-year-old Motala archaeological site in southern Sweden had both light skin gene variants."

"They also had a third gene, HERC2/OCA2, which causes blue eyes and may also contribute to light skin and blond hair. Thus ancient hunter-gatherers of the far north were already pale and blue-eyed, but those of central and southern Europe had darker skin."

sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

I need genetic proof, not pseudo-theories.

Genetically, those mummies are from admixture that took place in Corded Ware culture (mix of I.E and Non-I.E) ==> Andronovo

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-009-0683-0

Here mate, it says that the Yamna were Eastern-Europeans + Caucasoids.
No mention of Eastern Mongoloids.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horse,_the_Wheel_and_Language
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

See under en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture#Characteristics

That wiki edit needs to be fixed. It should be "eastern hunter-gatherers" as per genentic studies.

Their ancestors were Ancient North Eurasians, that wiki edit regrading "Eastern Europeans" is a mistake, needs to be fixed.

Anyway, genetic studies.

EHG = As haak et al puts it "Russia was inhabited by a distinctive population of hunter-gatherers with high affinity to a ~24,000-year-old Siberian"

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/abs/nature14317.html

Pic related :Eurasiatic langages have origins in Siberia, you can see it's spread out West and to East, all the way to North America.

ALL eurasiatic speakers ancestors were Ancient North Eurasians.

This isn't about genetic proof, it's about trying to help you with your embarrassing citations of a "science journalist" who decided to jazz up a IE-culture sequence list and mangling it entirely. The Andronovo horizon does not replace the Afanasievo horizon, the Okunevo horizon does.

That really explains why Xiaohe mummies have Corded ware admixture and not Yamnaya or Afansonos?!?!

There is no genetic proof of Afanasievo having nordic phenotype, they were similar to Yamnaya, in other words brown hair, brown eyes and darker skin than modern European.

Genetic studies show Xiaohe mummies have corded ware admixture (mix of I.E and Non-I.E) that took place in Europe.

Deal with it, Indo-Europeans ancestors with "Ancient North Eurasians", they never carried genetic alleles for Nordic phenotype but later on when they mixed with Non-Aryans aka Scandinavian hunter-gatherers in Corded Ware culture, they did have it.

If you don't have genetic study proof then don't bother.

...

The Aryans were Indo-European spreaders and since 5.000BC the Indo-Europeans were already predominantly Nordic.

Before that, before the expansions, they may very well have been Proto-Indo-Europeans, but they're not the Aryans.

In the Vedic Hymns is explicit recorded that the Aryans were Nordics (specifically Blue-Eyed Golden-Haired) with their original place of origin in the North Pole.

Do you have low IQ or do you have hard time following timeline of Indo-Europeans?

Try here, this is how Indo-Europeans came to be

They acquired Nordic phenotype after mixing with "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" in Corded Ware culture, after they invaded Europe in 2900 BCE — 2350 BCE.

Indo-Europeans or their ancestoers, "Ancient North Eurasians" did not carry genetic alleles (HERC2/OCA2) for nordic phenotype, only Scandinavian hunter-gatherers did.

What did Indo-Europeans look like before that? when they invaded Europe?

According to genetic studies :- They were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European. (Haak et al, 2015)

That's because, Indo-Iranians come from Andronovo Culture, which split from Corded Ware culture where (I.E and Non-I.E mixed) in Europe.

Yamnaya P.I.E homeland ==> Invade Europe ==> Corded Ware culture (mix of I.E & non I.E aka Old Europe) ==> Now, "mixed-Indo-Europeans" split in different directions, forming new branches of I.E languages we know today, including Proto-Indo-Iranians, Proto-Italio-Celtic etc

Man, what those guys are trying to say is that it doesn't matter which people came before the Indo-Europeans, if they had dark eyes or hair.
The Indo-Europeans as we know, the ones that migrated everywhere and founded civilizations everywhere already had Nordic features, making those the "Aryans".
Tocharians split from the main group around 3500bc and were already red-haired/blond/whatever and even the Hittites before them were as well.
So, it doesn't matter if Asiatics came from Siberia 25000BC because they were not the ones responsible for what the Indo-Europeans with Nordic admixture did, so they were not the Aryans, they were not the Indo-Europeans.
If you're going to keep tracing back, you may as well say that the Cro-Magnon were the Aryans, or even the Neanderthals.

That doesn't make them Aryan, it makes makes them "mixed" aka product of Corded Ware Culture.

Genetically, "pure" Aryans would look loser to Siberian than to mixed Nordics. Nordics still look like what Scandinavian hunter-gatherers of Funnelbeaker culture did, nothing Aryan about them.

Aryans described themselves as Nordics.
Are you Japanese/Chinese?
Also, there's nothing pure.

No, they din't, they're ancestors were "Ancient North Eurasians" aka Siberian nomads.

Nordics or Scandinavian hunter-gatherers were just another population they mixed with it when they invaded Europe from Yamnaya.

Pretty much this. The Aryans and their White genes were the ones that invented the chariot BTFO and then civilized half the Old World.

Their proto-"Indoeuropean" lingual ancestors probably only contributed some aggression genes that simply catalyzed world domination.

As far as we know "Funnelbeaker Culture" Scandianvia and "Linear Pottery Culture" Northern-Central Europe din't know anything about chariots or horses. These came with Indo-Europeans from Yamnaya.

Horse-drawn chariots** were already in use with Proto-Indo-Europeans aka Eastern hunter-gatherers (siberian shifted) in 4000-3500 BC, before they invaded Europe.

Horses were also first domesticated by them and their Altai cousins.

Why are the pyramids a mystery?

If the Egyptians were white it makes perfect sense to me that they would have been capable of massive engineering projects.

Genetically, pure Aryans would look like Siberians nomads. Europeans were just another population they mixed with.
That really explains why Northern Europe was uncivilized until 11th century a.d, point proven.

Yes, Uralic, Altai and Indo-Europeans are Eurasiatic languages, first spoken mongoloids. In fact, Indo-Europeans introduced "Ancient North Eurasian" ancestry to Europe, it din't exist in Europe before Bronze age.

If that was the case then why were Pyramids not built in Scandinavian instead?

Lack of resources and severe climate.

nice excuse, they seem to have had no problem building medieval castles.

Any sources on this?

The truth is that snow niggers also got visited by ancient Aryans, who taught them their culture and customs, just like it happened with blacks, Indians and others. They also had culture of rape/pillage, and today think that they wuz kangs, just like their black African brethren.

Aryans/Indo-Europeans din't play much role in shaping cultures or customs of people they conquered. They're expansion is very similar to their Altai cousins (ex: Mongols & Turks), they conquered and assimilate with already existing local culture with elite language dominance.

Most of Northern European culture isn't Aryan/Indo-European, it's Funnelbeaker culture. They still followed many traces of this non-Aryan culture until they were Christianized.

Viking burials for example is similar to this non-Aryan Funnelbeaker culture (ex: rock arrangements around burials), it's also most likely that many Norse gods also trace their origins to this non-Aryan Funnelbeaker culture.

Splain, pls.

There is a high chance that they have preserved more Aryan characteristics today because no invaders wanted to live in frozen wastelands that they were not accustomed to, while others got enriched, forced to emigrate, or got raped out of existence by invading subhuman hordes from the east and south.

Turkic invasion of Anatolia (modern Turkey) is pretty good example. Turkic homeland is in Altai mountains, south Siberia and Anatolians once spoke Indo-European language but now they speak Turkic, without major shift in their genetic or physical phenotype. Most people from Turkey still look like what pre-anatolian (i.e), pre-turkic, neolthic farmers of that region always looked like.

Eurasiatic languages = Altai, Indo-European and Uralic have same mongoloid ancestors aka "Ancient North Eurasians". They all had similar conquest and migration patterns too.

In Northern Europe, Aryans conquered "Funnelbeaker culture" and "Liner pottery culture" (Western European hunter-gatherers & Scandinavian hunter-gatherers) bring them under "Cordedware culture" (new Aryan colony) which emerged right after they invaded Europe from Yamnaya steppes.

In Corded Ware culture, they took local women for wives and had tons of illegitimate children with various other local women (explains why R1a/b became so wide spread so quick). These children were raised with their fathers language, his aryan culture + mothers non-aryan culture. These mixed-offspring's were trained in warfare to safe-guard their ever expanding colony.

Descendants of "Corded Ware culture" (mix of I.E and Non- I.E) start to form their own unique tribal identities and start to split from Corded Ware culture in every direction, ex : Proto- Greeks, Proto-Italo-Celtic, Proto-Indo-Iranians, Proto-Anatolians etc

These new "mixed Aryans" of Corded Ware culture, go on to mix with various other populations.

Proto-Greeks conquer and mix with non-Aryans in Balkans and S.Europe ex: Helladics, Vincas, Minoans.

Proto-Italio-Celtic conquer and mix with non-Aryans in W.Europe and Italy ex : Megalithic cultures of W.Europe, Printed Cardium culture in Italy.

Proto-Slavs conquer and mix with non-Aryans in E.Europe ex : Fatyanovo culture, Volosovo culture, Ceramic comb pottery.

Not even close, nordics still look like what "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" did, they were not Aryans, just another population Aryans mixed with in Corded Ware culture and spread out again.

Pure Aryans looked like their ancestors "Ancient North Eurasians" aka Siberian nomads.

"Ancient North Eurasian" ancestry first spread to Europe with Uralics (mostly in N.East) and later it spread everywhere else in Europe with Aryan invasion from Yamnaya.

Ancestors of Aryans, Uralics and Altais
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal'ta-Buret'_culture

Aryans
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

Sop what you're saying is "elite linguistics" basically means the dominant genetic replacers'/conquerors' language prevailed over the original and later mischling hordes…?

Native genetics of Europe were not replaced on large scale, for example Europeans look like what pre-Aryan Europeans have always looked like. Europe still has many pre-Aryan y-dna and Mt-dna.

Based on Autosomal DNA, average European is going to be mix of Western European hunter-gatherer + Neolthic Farmer + Yamnaya Aryan.

These above components can be further broken down into various populations but "Western European hunter-gatherers" and "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" are native to Europe, while farmers, aryans and uralics are not.

Yes, but culturally, Europe was and still is "Old Europe" in many aspects. Pre-Aryan greece (Helladics and Minoans) already had advanced civilizations, which went on to influence "mixed aryan" (proto-greeks) invaders who came from Corded Ware culture.

There is no uniform Indo-European culture in Europe, Greeks were opposite of Nords because local pre-aryan cultures were never fully replaced but assimilated.

Opportunity abounds, my people. Take to the waves.

The context of Leviticus 19:28 is a set of laws that prohibited Jews from following the pagan practices of the Egyptians and the Canaanites (Lev. 18:1-5, 24-30; 20:22-24).

The only specific mention of tattoos in the Bible is a command given to the Jews in about 1450 BC when they were travelling from Egypt to Canaan: “Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves” (Lev. 19:28 TNIV).

Based on Autosomal DNA calculator, average Norwegian seems to be 16% Aryan, which is basically "Ancient North Eurasian" (ANE) mongoloid-siberian component but rest of their ancestry is Non-Aryan/Old Europe (41% Early Euro-Farmer/EEF & 42% W.Euro hunter-gatherer/WHG).

Norwegian average : 41.1 EEF, 42.8 WHG, 16.1 ANE

eupedia.com/forum/threads/30123-Makin-a-map-of-EEF-WHG-and-ANE-admixtures-in-Europe-Please-post-your-data

Yamnaya Aryans were 50% ANE and they're ancestors, Mal'ta-Buret' were 100% ANE.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal'ta-Buret'_culture

Europeans on average are 5%-18% Aryan/ANE.

Here's the full list of average individual European admixtures from (Lazaridi et la 2014).

Local non-aryan cultures (EEF, WHG) were never fully replaced but assimilated. Aryan (ANE) genetic contribution is pretty small.

Early Neolthic farmers (EEF), Western European hunter-gatherers (WHG), Ancient North Eurasians (Aryans).

EEF WHG ANE
59.3 29.3 11.4 - Basque
56.1 29.3 14.5 - Croatian
49.5 33.8 16.7 - Czech
49.5 36.4 14.1 - English
32.2 49.5 18.3 - Estonian
55.4 31.1 13.5 - French
67.5 19.5 13 - French_South
79.2 5.8 15.1 - Greek
55.8 26.4 17.9 - Hungarian
39.4 45.6 15 - Icelandic
36.4 46.4 17.2 - Lithuanian
93.2 68 - Maltese
41.1 42.8 16.1 - Norwegian
45.7 38.5 15.8 - Orcadian
71.3 12.5 16.3 - Pais_Vasco
81.7 17.5 8 - Sardinian
39 42.8 18.2 - Scottish
90.3 9.7 - Sicilian
80.9 6.8 12.3 - Spanish
74.6 13.6 11.8 - Tuscan
46.2 38.7 15.1 - Ukrainian
32.4 48 19.4 - Finnish

Europeans cluster between EEF/ WHG (non-Aryans) but not with ANE (Aryans).

Small group of elite Aryans (ANE) bought language dominance and assimilated already existing local Non-Aryans (EEF & WHG).

ANE = ancestors of Indo-European, Uralic and Altai.

WHG = Native Europeans, they spoke something related to Basque (?)

EEF = Near eastern farmers, Minoans.

nature.com/nature/journal/v513/n7518/abs/nature13673.html

Except their median IQ is not 120.

alor.org/Race, Culture and Nation/Jewish Intellectual Supremacism - A Refutation.htm

Ashkenazim Jews probably do but most Jews don't.

I don't think Egyptians tattooed themselves, maybe near-easterners did.

Venetians have the highest IQ, not Ashkenazi.

Ashkenazi mtdna is Italian and French origin, so they took a lot of european women for wives.

Nubians still exist, user. See: Anwar Sadat, 3rd President of Egypt.

hey look its the wog autist from sicily who has a 12 foot long inferiority complex

yep confirmed for autistic wog sicilian faggot who derailed the italian politics thread

Genetically, Northern Europeans are LESS white than Southern Europeans. That's because Northern Europeans have more mixed ancestry coming directly from East Eurasia, your precious Aryans(ANE) turned out to be dirty mutts.

"Western European hunter-gatherers" and "Scandinavian hunter-gatherers" also come from non-caucasian branch known "West Eurasian", which is mix of random shit from all over Eurasia.

Top that with "ANE" aka "Ancient North Eurasian" (Aryans & Uralics) genetic ancestry which came from Siberia, is again mix of many Eurasian shit, making Northern Europeans even LESS white.

Levels of ancient non-Caucasoid admixture in 26 European populations.

Estonian ……. 13.2%
Scottish ……. 12.5%
Lithuanian ….. 12.4%
Norwegian …… 11.5%
Icelandic …… 11.3%
Belorussian …. 11.1%
Orcadian ……. 11.0%
Czech ………. 10.9%
Hungarian …… 10.7%
Ukrainian …… 10.7%
English …….. 10.0%
Croatian …….. 9.5%
French ………. 9.2%
Pais_Vasco …… 8.6%
Basque ………. 8.1%
French_South …. 7.8%
Bulgarian ……. 7.8%
Greek ……….. 7.4%
Tuscan ………. 6.7%
Bergamo ……… 6.6%
Albanian …….. 6.6%
Spanish ……… 6.2%
Sicilian …….. 4.4%
Maltese ……… 3.1%
Ashkenazi_Jew … 3.1%
Sardinian ……. 2.1%

As you can see, Norwegians have some of the highest non-white admixture in Europe, all because of WHG, SHG and ANE ancestry, who din't come from same tree as Caucasoids (EEF).

Source : biorxiv.org/content/early/2013/12/23/001552

Southern Europeans on the other hand are predominately "EEF" aka "Early European Farmers" which, descents directly from "Basel Eurasian" aka "pure caucasoids".

Sardianians are predominantly "EEF" and score 98% of it, highest in the world. They are used in genetic studies to calculate caucasian ancestry in other populations.

European civilization was shaped by Southern European, "EEF" aka "Early European Farmers" NOT WHG/SHG (hunter-gatherers) or ANE (Aryans/Uralics).

Dumb nordicisit-nigger, only europeans who suffer from inferiority complex is Northern Europeans like you, that's why you relay on pseudo-history like afrocentric niggers.

— Adolf Hitler

—M.W. Fodor

You don't have to sperg out about it man. We already know our power level. You're turning into one of these afrocentrist/nordniggers.

Why do you faggots always interpret European DNA in ancient middle easterners as fucking Nordic?

Gee, it's not like the Mediterranean Race spanned the whole Mediterranean basin or anything before Arabo-niggers invaded during the Caliphate years.

These people were closer to Greeks and Italians than Greeks and Italians are to Nordics. They were Mediterranean.

Very true. Also, fun fact- Indo-Iranics gained blonde genes at about the same time as Proto-Germanics. 60% of Proto-Iranians were either light haired or light eyed, and I imagine the Aryans who invaded India wouldn't have been too different either.

why do you even have a folder with gay indian shit [heh], nigger?

Holy shit he's learnt to switch ID's