Why do some people refuse to play the meta?

>>612634419>Some compfaf was so butthurt they drew thisLoving every laugh

Are there any games where I can play a strength wizard? That sounds cool as hell.

>>612634419theres a difference between being shit and not being a meta slave. but you wouldnt know that because youre convinced that since you looked up your build that you must be doing everything right.

>>612634814Sure but the reason people reach a consensus on a meta is because it's decided to be the most efficient way of achieving a goal. If you want to change the meta, you need to understand why it's so efficient in the first place and how to subvert/extend it.

>>612634939you say that but spend the entire match crying and arguing with your "toxic tryhard" team instead of playing the game.>JUST HAVE FUN! I KNOW IM RUINING THE MATCH FOR EVERYONE! LITERALLY SUCKING THE ENJOYMENT OUT OF EVERYONE'S MATCH BUT HAVE FUN YOU FILTHY TRYHARD!

>>612635209imagine caring about random strangers online

>>612635209Cuckold mentality, putting other people's satisfaction before your own.

>>612634419>Why do some people refuse boring repetition.They lack autism.

>>612635209I've squashed quite a lot of meta retards by going off meta. But I'd happily lose a game if it means ruining your day.

>>612635209Maybe you don't like multiplayer games bro?

>Speedrunners in MH World and Rise run pure damage sets>Retarded normies copy them and cart constantly

>>612634419>get tired of the meta>check other stuff>find shit that breaks the meta in half and shits over it>become the new meta>laugh as the old and busted metafags keeps on seething>do it again since that's how I have funOP will never learn

>>612634419Anon... Non meta doesn't mean fucking up last hitting and until diamond it's literally a non issue

>>612634419Because the meta is always boring and soulless.

>>612635209not my problem.

>>612634419for the same reason that some people decide to play the meta.games are about having a good time doing something that you enjoy, for some that's playing the meta and optimizing their strategy to increase their chances of winning. for others it's just about doing all of the side content and meeting people online. for me, it's finding the dumbest most convoluted way to win so i can rub it in people's faces when i actually manage to pull it off after 300 attempts.

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>>612634419because they are extremely good at the game and could beat you at a severe disadvantage

>>612634578this.I have two jobs. I'm not burning braincells to play fucking VIDEOGAMES.

>>612634419Because outside of a comp environment it's not necessary.

>>612634624Developers tell you what the new meta is, it's not your job to decide what is or isn't meta.

I only dislike the meta when its 100% because the devs wont take the time to change some numbers. >man this build looks really fun!>try it>it IS fun>but scaling is fucked so it doesnt perform well enough

>>612634419Man that image is pure projection

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Give it a chance, I'm sure it'll work out :P

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>>612638018All criticism is projection.

>>612634419Because you can't do anything to stop me. All you can do is bitch and whine about how I'm having fun and you aren't.

>>612634419I play the "meta" if it's competitive and helps me rack up more kills, as being at the top of the scoreboard and being able to carry a team is what I personally consider fun. But playing a bit of everything and learning why X isn't good and considered meta is worth it too, as you learn what's good, why Y is not, and what Z has to offer that nobody really expects. >>612637564 is also correct

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>>612638117Also projection, maybe we're all projectors just playing shitty movies

>>612637745>dude why are you melee attacking you're a ranged magic class>I HAVE TWO JOBSjust stare at the wall until monday

>>612634419Because the meta isn't fun at all

>>612634419being a retarded noob who applies faulty logic to gearing up and playing their class is the best part of MMOs. after that it's all following guides and chasing numbers.

>>612636631>>612635964>>612635697>>612635551>>612635452>boot up singleplayer game>just play the game like a game>boot up multiplayer game>I now think losing is fun and will perform badly on purpose, if you don't like it then FUCK YOU I FUCKING HATE YOUWhy are you like this?

>>612637564>for me, it's finding the dumbest most convoluted way to win so i can rub it in people's faces when i actually manage to pull it off after 300 attempts.Based

>this armor looks cool>crossbow and copper bolts? sounds fun>those orcs look mean, I dont like them>bet i could hit a few while jumping off this roof like max payne>*recreates blade club music with my mouth*

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>Not a pro >Not pushing world firsts>Not entering a tournament>Just a normal faggot>Still min/max and stick to the meta and read/watch all the guides you can find in order to be "competitive" despite never competing in anything ever

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>>612634419SOmetimes meta is boring.But also many offmeta players are fucking retarded, they try to make alternative builds but they dont have any idea how to make any good offmeta build and they just put points/money on stuff that doesnt just go well with character class or other items.

>>612634419There's a different between not playing to the meta and playing like a retard, which is ironic because case in point, OP is not only a retard, but a fag.Meta is built on consistently providing a certain percentage chance (even a theoretical one) of producing a particular result. It's possible to beat the meta by understanding how to play your class properly, as well as appreciating what builds do what.By the way, meta is always what ruins the "fun" in videogames, because they always whine and beat themselves off the loudest. 1% damage off their class and they cry for a "balance patch" or whatever. Bunch of pussies, I tell you hwat.

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>"NOOOO WHY ARE YOU RUNNING THE BURST FIRE BUILD INSTEAD OF THE DOT FIRE BUILD????"Suck my dick fag

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>>612637564>for me, it's losing 300 times in a row until luck lets me winsounds boring and stupid

>>612634419Meta is easymode. You have chosen easymode.

I like playing characters incorrectly so anybody killed by it wonders why that happened

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I don't care if you play meta or not, just play and try to be competent.No, friendly heavy in tf2 isn't playing the game.

What fucking games are you faggots even referring to?Seriously, vague arguments like these are so retarded. There's a million different things that could decide whether one is right or wrong in the way they play and it all depends on the game and its meta.Jesus.

>>612634939Man, I never knew that watching one or two 10-30 minute long videos at 2x speed when a patch drops and making adjustments counts as a second job. The things I learn on this site are truly mindblowing.

>>612638290>projection>>612638206I'm gleefully projecting the fact that meta is for fags.

>>612634419same reason some people only play meta. they think theyre too good/better than everyone else to just play like a normal person

>>612639112>>projectionwhat the fuck do you think that word means? look at the fucking post I'm replying to you illiterate mongoloid

>>612639146Isn't the normal player scared into playing meta?

>>612634419because I don't need it

>>612639080this thread is full of bots, maybe 2-3 actual people in here just grabbing talking points and using them to calling eachother 'fags'this is the 'meta' of posting on Holla Forums.

>>612639185no the normal person is just playing with they like and might meta pick every now and then

>>612639219>this is the 'meta' of posting on Holla Forums.One of the meta's I haven't seen tranny/black hatebaiting in this thread or porn posting

>>612639179suck my dick and go read up more guides and walkthroughs about making sure your gaylord wizard's DPS is high enough or you picked the right robe for the quest.

>>612638602>read 5 steam guides>read the entire wiki>watch 15 hours of youtube "pro" players>boot up multiplayer game finally>still lose lolWhy are you like this?

>>612634578fpbp

>>612638907reminds me of when i used to play a protection warrior in WoW during Wrath of the lich king, i never really bothered with pvp but i always found it funny when a rogue would sap or stun me and proceed to kill themselves trying to attack me as i had thorns damage that exceeded their individual hit damage.makes you wonder how confused they were when they died.

>>612634419You can't even get away with going off-meta because most multiplayer games nowadays have small teams of players duking it out with each other, so if you are deliberately handicapping yourself you're hurting the whole team. E-sports are a mistake.

>>612639345>suck my dick and go win games because you're not afraid of learning or getting better at somethingno cope, only seethe, enjoy ragequitting when I dom you because you intentionally suck at games

>>612639787>more projectionnon meta players don't ragequit. That's all you, scout.

>>612639923*kills you again* sorry were you still talking

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>>612640018>role playing on Holla Forumsholy shit. Having a tough day?

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>>612640185*spawncamps you* *wins game* *topscores* but hey at least you had fun right

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>>612637564>it's finding the dumbest most convoluted way to win so i can rub it in people's facesmfw beating all the lambo/pagani metawhores in The Crew by always powersliding with my collectible hot rod

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>>612634419Because I don't know it?

>>612637564>for me, it's finding the dumbest most convoluted way to win so i can rub it in people's faces when i actually manage to pull it off after 300 attempts.Literally me.

>>612634578fpbp.Fuck meta slaves. I play the game I bought the way I want you faggots.

>>612634419Who gives a fuck what other people do? Unless you're playing one of those games where your enjoyment rests on what randoms decide to do, but why the fuck would you ever do that?

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If a tranny was the best character in the game, and a pink dress was the best armour in the game, would you play the meta OP?Some people just want to play cool characters, have cool Armour, use abilities in unusual ways etc. Shut up and deal with it.

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>>612634419Because any brainlet can look up a Tier 0 meta pick, but that's fucking boring. If I wanted to play a game where I do nothing but follow flowcharts set up by other people I'd play fucking EVE Online or something.It's more fun to be able to shit on metafags while running off-meta stuff you enjoy than being another slave to what the top players tell you is the best.

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>Using rogue/off-meta-tier 2 strategies>Same as tossingYou are the faggot. I'm not gonna play STR wizard with a a fishing pole but I have no desire to play fox only final destination no items bullshit for more than 1 play session.

>>612634419Life is short, I choose to do the things I enjoy and if not playing the meta entertains me then I'm going to do it regardless of how buttblasted you are over it.

meta is cancer but intentionally playing the wrong way is just as retarded. if you're having fun doing things wrong, great, have fun, but don't be self righteous about it. you just look ridiculous.

People who hate metas just hate real competition by nature. They prefer to deliberately not understand how the game works and approach matches in ignorance because they either find a non-meta playstyle more fun or they want to have a cope for when they lose but they'll never blame the game itself for the nature of its own meta. They'll just blame competitive players for perpetuating the meta because they think everyone should stoop to their level and purposefully cordon off parts of the game to themselves so some shitters' egos can be placated.

you should always play the best build you can, anything else makes you a shitter.now often this isn't exactly the common meta: it can be an overlooked or underdeveloped option that people only start to pick up on as the meta matures. However, if you don't honestly think it's the best, you have no business playing it, and you're not only cheating others but also yourself by doing so.

>>612635209Then make a group with other tryhards and stop complaining about randoms playing how they wantI swear to god you compfags are either clinically retarded or just so insufferable you have no friends to play with, probably both to be honest

I'm going to play Counter-Strike while maining shotguns and you can't stop meIt still kills enemies, while earning me more $$$ per kill

Narrow metas are a symptom of the developers' incompetence.

>>612636204Exactly. I slotted in defensive sklls for hard content in World and Rise, and I likely did more damage than the guys running full damage because I wasn't healing half the time or hot footing it back to the monster after carting. People just think they're way better than they actually are.

I just think it's boring to look up a guide and do exactly what someone else already did. At that point it's just monkey-see monkey-do, which is boring for me. I like discovering playstyles, figuring out what works and what doesn't, and putting things together myself, I don't enjoy striving to do the exact same thing as everyone else but 2% more efficiently.

>>612634419Because I'm not an NPC, and I'd rather learn the game by experimenting instead of soullessly sticking to tier lists and what some e-celeb on jewtube/twitch told me to do.

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>>612634419If you need to play the meta to have fun, then the game is shit.

>>612643313If we're going that route, just play chess. When you strip the game to it's bare bone components, there is nothing but pure competition, and meta only with chess. You're locked into performing at your absolute peak. There are absolutely no excuses for you losing, other than you being inferior. It is also 1v1 so there's nothing else to blame. It is the ultimate competitive game.What's that, it's not fun? But I thought you didn't care about fun.

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>>612634578but if I don't play the meta the game will fuck me in the ass and I won't have fun

>>612634419>don't play meta>still assrape joyless metaslaves because despite picking what's broken they lack the skill truly good players have

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>>612644798>things that never happened

>>612634419>trying to use a fishing pole as a strength weapon on a wizard 32 levels lower than your opponent is the exact same as "why did I get banned for playing Torbjorn when I have a 70%+ win rate as him"

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>>612644751>not liking chesspleb detected

>>612644892Why wouldn't it? Just because you picked a top tier doesn't grant you the skill pros do, and in many games tier lists and meta don't mean shit unless you're playing at a really high level, which I don't, and neither do (you).

if the meta matters at non-pro levels then the game is poorly designed

>>612634578op btfo

>>612644751>But I thought you didn't care about fun.You thought that because you're a retard assuming things I never said. When I don't enjoy a game's meta, I literally just don't play the game. The competitive games I play are fighting games and racing games so I don't get bogged down in gay team shit or flowcharty checklisting like you see in MOBAs, and if say my favorite character in a particular fighting game can't compete at all or the game's meta orbits a sole mechanic, I just don't play that game. I find another one instead of bitching about it.

>>612634419It always depends on the game and mode of that game.If you're playing a single player PvE game, no one should give a fuck what you build because it doesn't affect their fun in any way whatsoever. You can be as bad as you want and it won't matter if you're a shitter. Solo PvP games follow the same mindset.Team based PvP games mean that if you are a shitter, you can single handedly ruin the fun for other people at the expense of your own. Meta means a little more but isn't the end-all-be-all. You can "break the meta" if you have more than a basic understanding of the game and aren't pants-on-head retarded. This is even more true in ranked/competitive play.tl;dr Play single player PvE or non competitive modes dumbass.

I've lost more games because some retard on my team saw my 'off-meta' build and threw a tantrum than I have because my 'off-meta' build was actually bad. Also, unless you're playing in the top 10% of players, it doesn't fucking matter.

>>612645089>heh, yeah I own metaslaves on a regular basis with my shit playstyleyou admitted it yourself, you play with other people who are at your same skill level so they have an inherent advantage against you, I seriously doubt you're beating their asses when you're playing like a buffoon

>>612645553>you admitted it yourself, you play with other people who are at your same skill levelyes, that's how matchmaking usually works, retard.

>>612638204>warblunder fag having a word in all of thishaha no, go pay some more golden eagle and shut up goy

>>612645716so you don't have a rebuttal then

>>612638602>I now think losing is fun and will perform badly on purpose, if you don't like it then FUCK YOU I FUCKING HATE YOUplaying nonmeta isnt "losing is fun". it isnt even losing. but seeing you ook and eek like a nigger free from the zoo because somebody didnt follow one of your mobafire builds and then losing on purpose to spite you is fun.

>>612644785Bad games have an extremely narrow meta. Good games have a diverse meta, or at least balance. Stop playing bad games.

Matchmaking has irrevocably damaged multiplayer games and should have only ever existed for competitive/ranked modes

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>>612635209I simply don't think about other players. Cry more that I'm ruining your game, cuck. :>

The only issue I have is when in a ranked mode someone plays very off meta but also plays like shit. I don't care if someone wants to do something stupid, but if they're feeding their ass off or getting tilted their weird choices is making them lose then they're just retarded.

>>612634419The most fun part of a game is the discovery phase.Many people circumvent this by looking up videos or wiki pages to get to the highest point of knowledge the fastest, but the best part of a game is when you don't know anything and make discoveries yourself. It's even more fun when you are making discoveries at the same time everyone else is, so learning something before everyone else puts you at an advantage. The nature of the modern internet makes it such that with thousands of players all doing the same thing and in communication with each other, the optimal strategy gets discovered in days, removing all the magic of the discovery phase. This is a large part of why modern mmos are so bad, because all the communication for the game exists outside of the game itself, and is able to propagate and be refined so much faster, so the mystery loses its magic.There is nothing wrong with having a meta to a game, but a truly good game does as much as possible to remove or diversify the meta. Should a game cater to someone that wants to try to have a strength build on a wizard? No, probably not, and the game should make it clear to a player seeking natural discovery that it isn't a viable means of play. Would it be great if someone playing a muscle wizard was 95% as good as a normal wizard, and maybe had opportunities to do something unique and special, even if they weren't 'technically' as good as an INT wizard, potentially allowing them to do better than expected by sheer virtue of the uniqueness of their build? Absolutely. Why do people buy all these shitty survival games that are early access despite all being functionally the same game? Because the discovery phase is always fun, even if the game is shallow and garbage. A game gets boring when it is solved. People look to diversify the meta because they want to discover things themselves.

>>612645853What do you mean? I'm not among the top 0.5% of players in any game, and I wouldn't want to be, because I'm an adult, I'm playing to have a good time, and consider it pretty childish to stress yourself out over some silly little video games like meta enjoyers do.

>>612645312>meta doesn't exist in PvE gamesBased retard

>play For Honor again after several years>play Shugoki>they nerfed his Demon Charge so that it's just a speed boost and not a charge that knocks peopleWhat's the point? The rework he had before that didn't do him a lot of good either. He's always been a trashy character to the point that most people don't know how to deal with him despite being too easy to counter.

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>someone plays certain things off meta because they can identify what makes meta things meta and might have a counter to it with those other things, introducing a new element to the metaThe ideal player for any game that allows a player-controlled meta over a dev-controlled one. No nerfs or buffs, just players coming up with counterplay themselves.>someone plays the meta because they can identify what makes it meta and play it well but don't feel like experimenting themselves with things that might counter itPerfectly fine, as these players are the lifeblood of an established meta and will help the above players pioneer it. Not as glamorous but still a good spot for most people.>someone plays the meta solely because it's the metaBoring but otherwise probably competent unless they're the type to blindly rage at off-meta players without a good reason.>someone plays off meta solely because it's off metaRetarded under any circumstance unless it's not a team-based game, in which case you'll probably be matched with like-minded players anyway, away from the rest.

>>612645858>playing nonmeta isn't "losing is fun" but I do lose on purpose for funyou're a retard, chew more crayons and leave the complicated computer games to the functional people

I'll play what I want, the metagame is a democracy and I can vote for whoever I choose

>"YO DIS NIGGA STACKING STR ON A WIZARD"Isn't metafag arguing more like complaining about a DPS using a strong, selfish buff for themselves over a party buff that provides a much lower DPS gain but is given to the entire party?

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>>612647502No, it's claiming a damage buff in the healing tree means you're actually a DPS and you're not going to heal

You can play however you want to play, just don't be a fag about it. Back when league of legends started getting popular I remember hearing the term meta gaming really start getting thrown around and almost every person that would talk about the meta was a giant fag.

>>612646949>flames teammates for not following 1337 builds>they flame back and then throw>flame more>they laughthats the reality of any game youre in and youre too dumb to see it. and yet you have the audacity to call anyone else stupid. the classic metafag everyone, couldnt be more stereotypical if you tried.

>>612648041>call guy retard for being bad>proves me wrong by, big surprise, being even worse>call him a retard again>he asserts this means he's won"I don't even care about winning anyway!" is the warcry of the coping permabad shitter and everyone has always known it.

>>612634419Because playing only one way is boring as fuck. Verity is the spice of life. Meta for sometimes, other shit for other times.

>>612648584enjoy eating more losses by showing off that shining personality.

>>612649683I'm used to carrying shitters, it's okay, I know not everyone can be good at things.

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>>612650393metaman's burden

>>612646140Not every game is ultra casual garbage where you can leave and join whenever you feel like it and people of vastly different skill levels can play together without it being a total shitshow

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>metafagif you don't play the most op class and build and nothing else at any moment in time then you are going against your own logic, the moment a new fotm comes, you need to abandon your old style and replicate.

theres a difference between not going all-in on meta and SPECIFICALLY doing everything you can to be anti-meta out of childish spite. naturally, people on 4chan will play in whatever way requires the most effort with the least amount of return just for the dopamine rush of it occasionally working.

>>612651567I mean that's usually what metafags do, yeah

>>612651616>naturally, people on 4chan will play in whatever way requires the most effort with the least amount of return just for the dopamine rush of it occasionally working.Hell yea

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>>612652686no, metafags play their preferred class unless the entire class sucks and larp that they're doing the best by doing the best spec of that class.

>>612652942how do I git gud with this

>>612634419Because I have a functional brain and can reach a meta-esque playstyle/itemization through practice and game sense. Following others is for NPCs and watching/reading guides is for faggots.

>>612634419It can be a lots of factors but the three most common are>they want to feel special>simple ignorance>meta build are too hard to obtain/comprehend and or use proficiently

>>612653832Just play around with it enough until it clicksI wouldn't recommend playing on Hightower, everyone there is expecting a gardener and will shit on you constantly if you're not goodTurbine is a pretty good place for learning to market garden, you can catch a lot of people by surprise jumping over the crates or off the battlements, and there's a lot of good places to jump to for safety

>>612634419Being able to go off meta and get raped by other players is a symptom of poor game design. Ideally you'd at least have the less optimal choices still stand a reasonable chance of turning things around against the cutting edge players.

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>>612634419I rarely care about winning as much as I care about enjoying myself, which obviously includes winning as part of the process, but it isn't the end-all be-allI like roleplaying and sometimes the meta build isn't the character I want to play as.Sometimes playing the meta means I'm not even touching the other aspects of the game that got me interested in it to begin with.

>>612634419I create the meta, bootlicker!

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>>612635551>>612635452again, I've seen people like you in my games multiple times. you tell yourself you're enjoying the game with your "fun" non-meta builds but you always end up being frustrated the entire match arguing with randoms because you've to suck the fun out of the game for everyone else. you all say you don't care but most of you do.

>>612656527WTF

>>612637885Who gives a shit? Devs are retards that barely understand their own game most of the time

This topic is why Holla Forums is fucking dogshit at fighting games >>612634578Playing like a retard stops being fun the moment you aren't a casual scrub

>>612637885Sure it is developers are often wrong about the meta and it often evolves in ways they do not see coming and often times nerfing things they thought were op makes thing worse because that was what was holding back a truly toxic playstyle that makes the meta unfun to play

>>612634419Because 9/10 the meta doesn't matter to your shit rank. What's better? Playing someone who you understand, or playing the most meta pick, but you've hardly played? Unless you are nearing the top ranks globally, you should be able to overcome the disadvantages of a non-meta pick.This is assuming you have an actual feasible strat, and not just stacking heal buffing items when you have no heals or whatever nonsense you can think of.

>>612658986Eh i will play whatever character i like in fighting games I still will when against the average player using the meta pick

>>612658986>fucking dogshit at fighting games say that to my online ken

>>612634419Fishing pole staff strength wizard is right.

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>>612634419Meta shit ruined video games.

>>612638857just increase your score scrub

>>612639762if you want to play off-meta just play free/casualyou should play the meta if you are in ladder

>>612644751>white advantage

>>612634419>this is what sweatlords actually believeI can smell your musty asscrack from here

>>612660976games will always have a meta because some combos are better than others

>>612634419>NOOO YOU CANT JUST PLAY FOR FUN YOU NEED TO TAKE EVERY GAME LIKE IS YOUR FINAL TESTfuck off faggot

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>>612661061Its okay to admit you play on easymode.

>>612661686>playing the meta against the highest scoring gamers is easymode

>>612661930Yes, everyone with higher winrates are playing on easymode. Skill is often just practice but they started with the best setup to practice and the right strategies to practice from the getgo, aka easymode.

>>612662162>Yes, everyone with higher winrates are playing on easymode.

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>>612662386>without the meta they will have bad winrates without greater skill and effort than someone playing the metaIts pretty simple. Doing the absolute optimal strategies and builds in a game is easymode. To go without the meta instills fear in you because you know you won't stand a chance. Some sort of...difficulty increase! Are you saying that using the meta is not a difficulty decreasing act roflmao, you yourself said why its important.

>>612661575I stand by my statement.

>play shit non-meta build>mmr or secret casual mrr tanks>end up playing with other people as bad as me with my non-meta habitsWhat's the problem here?

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>>612637950Agreed. I get devs aren’t perfect, but there are far too many games that have a strict meta not due to anything high level competitive thought, but because builds are either great or utter shit.

>>612661609>MY IDEA OF FUN IS FUCKING SUCKING AT WHAT I'M DOINGvery cool

>>612662104>play multiplayer game the wrong way>have money stolen make one game this happens

>>612665272You didn't even use punctuation, you fucking retard. How on earth are we supposed to believe you enjoy trying hard?

>>612634419Because I don't play games that have a meta.

>>612665937

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>>612665272This post clearly shows you don't know the meta of posting, look up nutrition's guide on getting (You)s and put a few hundred hours in notepad before you drag down a thread like that again.

>>612636204>Carting in RiseHow????

>>612656527>up being frustrated the entire match arguing with randoms because you've to suck the fun out of the game for everyone elseYou niggers are the fun suck. you are black hole of negativity that relentlessly bully out people for the crime of playing their favorite characters. Im not arguing with randoms, you are arguing with me and YOU need to fuck off. I can play Torbjorn if I want to. You killed overwatch and you don't even understand how you did it.

>>612634419Because games that are defined by their meta are unfun to begin with>have a roster of 30 characters>only 6 of them are metawhy even bother playing that garbage at this point? I might as well just look for a better balanced game.

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>>612634578Fpbp meta faggotry ruins games.

>>612665041>play shit non-meta build>mmr keeps going up because im not a shitter>end up playing with other people who are so sweaty they wont let me play my meme build anymore.It hurts. Matchmaking was a mistake.

>>612666446You replied.

>>612634419because I have standards and if your game has shit balance i'll refuse to play, simple as.

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>>612666909AAAHHHH BUT YOU REPLIED ARTOSISTHAT MEANS HES BETTER THAN YOU ARTOSISHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAYou are a FUCKING MORON

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>People knocking on muscle wizardYou fags just don't fucking get it.>Ice magic covering escape route>Lightning magic smoking enemies out from behind cover>Fire magic preventing them from going back into cover>Their skull being caved in from the raw power of your fucking fistsIt's the best mage class and nobody can convince me otherwise.

>>612634419The meta loosely based off of maximizing utility. However, the mechanism that enforces meta (exile, uncooperation, etc) is entirely social. This results in a dismissal of strategies that are either viable or superior.

>>612667531People get filtered in the early game cause they're playing like a regular wizard instead of using their extra health to tank and get in the enemies facest. shit on rank unicorn fire mages all the time

>>612667465>loses constantly to people trying half as hard because they play the meta>refuses to change tactics, just rants about how much better he is than others for intentionally gimping himselfArtosis is the deity of anti-metafags.

I play games about wizards in fantasy kingdoms cause I want to fire spells and do wizard things and escape for a while.If the game designer made a few spells, abilities or mechanics such an advantage that the most efficient way to play is to fire the same one spell and jump backwards everywhere, I still don't really want to do that because then I'm not really going on a magical journey anymore, am i?Lots of very thematic games are ruined during MP, because you either play the meta or you just lose every time. The clue is in the name, the game becomes the game.

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>>612634419metafags are the reason why I never play multiplayer shit anymore

>>612668089>S-surely he'll be stopped by my fire wallIt's the folly of many firefags to think even the fires of hell will stop my magical haymaker.

>>612668183It gets worse when version 2 of WiFK comes out and they realize people only really used the meta so they decide to redesign the class around the meta.

>>612634732You don't understand the meta. You just copy the meta.

>>612634419>Why do some people refuse to play the meta?Because "wrecking" the game for tryhards and skirting by "community bans" or developer rules, preferably including baiting said tryhards into "toxic behavior" on chat or something and then turning around and getting them banned, IS the ULTIMATE META OP :^)

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>>612634578fpbp anyone who unironically uses the term meta is an npc

>>612668543Or, if you're not looking to be a faggot but still use this strategy, going obnoxious set-ups with the intent on baiting the enemy into a blind fury and setting up the trap for them is also a completely viable strategy.

>>612634419This is me except the raging people are my teammates and the enemy team when I pick poor mans shield and quelling as Treant in Dota 2 and no one else can last hit in the lane.

i will join your match and i WILL shit all over your meta and listen to your delicious cries as you beg me to take mercy and start playing in the way you wanti am the punishment that god sends upon faggots making an idol of minor entertainment

>>612634578fpas alwaysbpyou do not dictate how i play the game

>>612637564>for me, it's finding the dumbest most convoluted way to win so i can rub it in people's faces when i actually manage to pull it off after 300 attempts.Superb. Crowning achievement of Starcraft 2 MP wasn't diamond or whatever to me it was just once pulling off something stupidly retarded like a double proxy spawning pool and then having the person be rectal ragnarok'd about it for ages.

>>612668834>gets bannedk

>>612668720In all seriousness yes, this is the much higher order version and takes genuine skill, much more high level poker bluff into an MP game. That said there is a certain amount of anarchic glee in sabotaging it all and watching it come burning down as chats devolve into rage that I will not apologize for once in a while.

>>612669076 if bans are so effective then why are you here bitching about "shitters"?

>>612634578fpbp

>>612669228but I'm not

I'm so glad I play fighting games because the community around them ensures that retarded casuals like 90% of this thread are filtered within an hour and those of us who actually like competition can be in peace

>>612640426you’re the guy I backstab over and over and he adds me to steam friends just to tell me i got lucky and his meta class would own me any other time, right?

>>612669546i love zoning btw.

>>612669182This is one of those reasons I like Valve MP games. In TF2 you can at any point swap to meme weapons and just fuck around and the game enables this in a variety of ways. In L4D2 you can keep shooting your teammates to let the director know you're an amoral psychopath and he's spawn in a grenade launcher just for you. Then all hell really does break loose.Honorable mention to RoR2 and Gesture/FuelCell/Meteors. It's great.

>>612666523>wear wrong armor>go all in damage yet can't hit for shit>stand still 99% of the time>get hipchecked for daysits easier than you think

>>612669546Nigga I play Yugioh in 2022 sit your ass down boyA card game that has 10000+ cards but only 80 meta cards that everyone plays, good luck :))))))))))))))))))

yeah, i build my sentry on the 2nd cap first

>>612669783>In L4D2 you can keep shooting your teammates to let the director know you're an amoral psychopath and he's spawn in a grenade launcher just for you.13 years later and i'm still learning new things about this game. how does valve do it?

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>>612645553>reads something happening as something happening on a regular basislmao are you mad and seething perhaps?

>>612669727Zoners are one way which fighting games filter casual retards, yes

>>612634419>used to play league with friend>he REFUSED to buy the good items for his champ>he REFUSED to play the role that champ was good at>he REFUSED to attack towers or play the map>we never won a single game in the 2 years we played together

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>>612634419I constantly harass my younger brother for being a meta-slave number nerd.

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>>612651395top never ever fucking happens at allit’s implying they are working together and not just running around doing their own solo plays

>>612637564>that motherfucker who beat the shit out of dragon rulers with moki mokiGame was for real men indeed

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>>612644785You don't enjoy getting fucked in the ass, son? What's wrong with you?

i always go for rp builds, like following a theme, dressing for fashion instead of stats, i set my stats around what i want to look like and not the other way where you wear whats best for your statsidk about mmos since ive never played one

>>612668279He's playing the meta, just one that only works with much more skill that he does not have

>Fighting gamesBased off individual vs individual performance, meta means little until both players have hit their peak. >MobasThe vast majority of the playerbase arnt even playing the same game as those that cement the meta, for those people shit on even the upper echelons of the ranked systems as if they were the lowest. You need to gitgud and understand the game before meta will ever matter. >FPS/tac-s/Hero-sSame shit, only now it is at a pure mechanical level. >RtsMeta is merely the most consistent and reliable strats, that still all lose to cheese>TurnbasedUltimately the only game where meta actually matters but if meta strat is that oppressive in a TBS, its a shit game.>Any varient of Team-based gameAnyone who tries to bm for not being a metaslave is a shitter at understanding meta. Because they should have learnt by now that being a cunt and actively communicating you are one makes your teamates play worse. You are griefing your own game by sperging out about it mid-match.TL;DROp is a faggot with Comm-diff and cries about it while his feeder teamates go 0/20 because they would rather lose harder than have to work with his cancerous ass.

>>612670251meant for>>612668172

>>612669850yet every single day there's a new chinese bot running some dumb OTK that is consistent enough to make coinflips a win/lose situation

>>612644519>Exactly. I slotted in defensive sklls for hard content in World and Rise, and I likely did more damage than the guys running full damage because I wasn't healing half the time or hot footing it back to the monster after carting. People just think they're way better than they actually are.It's not even just that, some people literally are so fucking braindead and copying THE META they see on yutube or whatever that they don't even know there are other ways to play or how to balance for their own (lack of) skill and style. They see XxXSephiroth420XxX streamer run some "expensive" "high end" loadout that seems to work and then they just copy it "oh that's the way to play". Nevermind if he performs badly and slow in actuality, because he might not, he might in fact be that fucking good that he can make it work. But either way it's still wrong, if it's a dumb approach blindly copying it is shit, if it's a good approach but only if you have genuinely incredible skill it's STILL a dumb approach to blindly copy it.I can think of a few MP games where even a relative supernoob could still be very useful to a team if they did a few fun starter roles, there's often eznoob gear that is still well suited to someone spamming away, or if a game rewards it scouting or dealing with trash or whatever. Sometimes going straight for the "meta" stuff merely means you die faster.

>>612669727this but unironically, i love shitting projectiles

>>612634419this is why guild wars 1 is god tier. the fishing pole strength wizard build WAS the meta build

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>>612670404Literally no one plays OTKs anymore my nigga this ain't 2017 Tier 0 (Spright/Tear) are control

>>612634419Suck my dick.HEALERS ADJUST

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>He doesn't like playing muscle wizardFucking pleb.

This entire thread illustrates perfectly why PvP games are inherently shit. The people that play PvP games will always go giga autism trying to find the least fun way to play a game so they can win with the least effort expended.Any game where the developers listen to pro/competitive player feedback and make changes based on it is doomed to turn into bland and uninteresting shit.

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>>612670792What if the pro scene is filled with memers and off the wall strats?There will never be a TI like 8 and 9

>>612670792>PvP onlyThis also applies to raiders and a great deal of PvE games nowadays. Hell, anything multiplayer. You can blame PvP plebs for a lot of things but this isn't one of them.

>>612646140God, this picture makes me rage with the fury of a thousand white hot suns. The implication being that, if only they were given the option to do so, all these different categories of player would willingly group up with others of their own kind and everyone would be happy in their own little corner of the game. Nothing could be further from the truth. One needs only look at a game like League of Legends to see this. In League you have two choices which, to be real, is all you need. You have...1. Normals -- for worthless fucking faggots, kids who realized they're never going to be good and need a safe space to cope, and other assorted retard niggers who don't want to play meta or don't want to be (read: can't be) in an environment where they're expected to sweat.2. Ranked -- for sweaty tryhards that, for all their alleged "toxicity" and shitty attitudes, actually want to play the meta and do so in a competitive environment with other like-minded people.Guess with of these two options the worthless faggot niggers choose, every single time without fail?

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>>612670941I'd say the effect on other games is just the cancer spreading.

>>612670792>people develop tactics to defeat the enemy more efficientlywow so terribletbf shitters are only a problem in games with shitty matchmaking, you don't get shitters after gold/platinum

>>612634419Contrarian thinking. They feel the need to be special in fucking vidya.

>>612671002>The implication being that,It isn't an implication, it is how things actually worked in a time before your pre-pubescent zoomer ass showed up.

>>612637564This user gets it

>>612671072it started well over a decade ago in wow desu

>>612670792It's not a PvP thing though it shows up there, these days it can happen with any game. And conversely some PvP games stay interesting and fun, it just takes developer discipline and a good enough foundation.>>612670941>This also applies to raiders and a great deal of PvE games nowadaysWhich grinds my gears like nothing else. "Balance" can make at least theoretical sense in PvP, and is also relatively objective, you can see if top tier humans are finding one thing so OP it's reducing fun just because other strats can't be used anymore. But in PvE? It's about players making their own fun! Players discovering surprising combos of weapons and skills and spells or whatever and enjoying them or not is one of the most classic parts of the game! It's fucking stupid to "nerf" something non-bugged just because it's good, players get to use it or not as a softer difficulty mode.It's often a symptom of either tryhard cancer (hurr my game is SO TOUGH guiz!!) or cheevo cancer (oh no someone got that gold jpg on their dumb nofriends profile TOO EASILY can't have that!! it devalues the gold jpg!!!!) or both.One of the negative side effects of ease of patching. Developers can fix bad bugs yeah, but they also often can't leave well enough alone.

>>612671002if only there were more options for those fags

>>612671257I'm in my forties, dicklips. At no point in history has competitive matchmaking worked this way in any fucking game.

>>612670792Someone call scrubquotes because I can taste the salty tears through my screen coming from this post.

>>612671438You're a retarded 40 year old with no reading comprehension then.

>>612671352There don't need to be more options for the fags. You're either a fucking faggot or you're not. Two choices, two queues.>>612671494I accept your concession.

>>612671438>competitive matchmakingLearn to read, dumb nigger.

>>612671002>this picture isn't right it makes me MAD >:(>i am an old fag and can tell you it doesn't work like that just look at this ANCIENT and CLASSIC game...>League of Legends>totally has dedicated servers and isn't the modern cancer on the bottomKid you don't even know that that image is. You don't even know what mutators and custom maps and all that are. Stop.

They're not subhuman

>>612671438>At no point in history has competitive matchmaking worked this way in any fucking game.Yeah that's why the image harkens back to an era BEFORE matchmaking. Kill yourself, zoomer.

>>612671578>>612671596>>612671667Cool not arguments and angry samefagging.

>>612670204I miss him like you have no idea. I still watch his videos whenever I feel like sinking myself in YGO nostalgia.

>>612634419Hi Chang, how are baby birds tasting this time of year?

>>612671438>At no point in history has competitive matchmaking worked this way in any fucking game.>competitive matchmaking>picture is literally contrasting decentralized old style dedicated servers people ran themselves with algorithmic "competitive matchmaking"You can stop pretending now. "In my 40s hurr" yeah sure you are.Alternatively: being in your 40s is meaningless if you only started gaming in the last decade.

The thing that always amuses me about retards whining about the meta is that they've got it in their heads that people that follow the meta spend hours looking up stuff like it's 2008 or something when all that's required to be caught up in the meta these days is like thirty minutes worth of videos and guides a week or so after a new patch is released.

>>612637745Yes goy, many goyim don't have enough time to master these video games. How about you spend a bit of that hard earned cash to gain the upper hand!

>>612671768>At no point in history has competitive matchmaking worked this way in any fucking game.Yes, this is correct.

When I make an MMO nothing will be balanced and specing will be totally free. So you can spec to become megumeme where you consume all your mana + stamina to create a massive powerful explosion that would incapacitate any player, but you yourself would collapse for like 10 seconds. But then a guy who spec'd in being the beekeeper god would summon 500 bees that all die to the explosion only for 500 more to show up and sting you to death as he's flying around in the sky with even more bees.

>>612671536>game modevs>the same game mode but now you have a numberThis is barely a second choice and there is very little tangible incentive for retarded faggots not to just pick the ranked mode to fuck around.

>>612637564>it's finding the dumbest most convoluted way to win so i can rub it in people's faces when i actually manage to pull it off after 300 attempts.Based. The fun comes form the mental damage sustained by metafags when their strategy formed by watching streamer VODs for 6 hours a day gets BTFO by some jank shit

>>612672116Cool, so what choices would you implement in a game like League to incentivize old school dedicated server style gaming?

Which do you prefer?>One Meta>There's only one viable strat for victory and winning depends entirely on your skill with that one strat>Rock-Paper-Scissors meta>There are a few viable strats and each has one up on the other meaning it takes less skill to beat another, but even having skill doesn't guarantee your win over another>To each their own meta>There are several viable strats and each one has it's own strength and weaknesses. Skill alone with your strat won't guarantee victory however and you're required to know the ins-and-outs of every strat and how they fight you if you want to win>Absolute chaos>Metas are for chumps and so is strategy. Everything can be viable or useless depending on luck, the situation, and skill. Even the most skilled players can be destroyed by a noob that got lucky and the highest scoring player is the one having the most fun

>>612634624Basically thisIf you want to get good, you can't be a metaslave because that means you're stuck following what everyone else does.

>>612671720The second and third post gave you clear arguments. Why are you pretending they didn't?You clearly aren't 40, if you were you'd remember that all the games used to have dedicated servers to specific playstyles, and while retards did wander in where they weren't wanted, they were quickly dispatched by an admin. Hell, even back in the days of direct IP connections, people sorted themselves into specific types of play via other programs/sites like MSN Gaming Zone. I still remember joining a clan in DF2:JK that played only the ninja mod, and there were people hosting serious tournaments with it. There were also people playing with RPG mod servers, and all that kind of stuff. People found a type of play they wanted and enjoyed it, they weren't all stuffed into two choices mandated by the devs and enforced on constantly monitored servers where no fun is allowed ever.

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People want to act like they're unique and cool. It's why whenever you see these threads you get people making up stories about how they totally dominated and owned everyone with the worst character.

>>612672497see>>612672281

>>612639762the only meta is to have fun ;^)

>>612637885Then why is there even the option to not follow the meta?Bad game design.

>>612672281you can literally just have matchmaking for ranked, give everyone else their community servers/modtools so they sort out their options themselves, and call it a day

>>612671836Forced "competitive match making" is cancer and the wrong way to do it.

>>612634578FPBP

>>612672281>>612672558I would shut down all ASSFAGGOTS given the opportunity, and I would put anyone who played more than 25hrs of one into forced labor camps in a ratio of 1 day served to 1 hour played.

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>>612672664didn't mean to reply

>>612672694And you're still going to have nothing but retarded niggers in your ranked queue, because the only reason the addicts play the game in the first place is to watch a number potentially get bigger. If League were to drop its ranked system tomorrow, the game would be completely dead in six months, tops.

>>612672719Competitive matchmaking is better than "dedicated servers"

>>612672859unless you're one of them, that shouldn't concern you too much

runescape is the only game thats fun to play strictly to the meta because BIS for various items is a real grind, actually, runescape is the only good game that has come out of europe since 1998

>>612673029>unless you're one of themThat would involve me playing ASSFAGGOTS, so no.

>>612669723Does the ability to disguise as something you're not ease your gender dysmorphia?

>>612638602I've only really spent time on multiplayer with Katamari Damacy I'd spend the entire match weaving around, picking up nothing, emoting like mad at everyone, then when my opponents were the required size I'd start ramming them and get rolled up. It was fucking awesome. I won some matches doing this, Katamari is fucking nuts

>>612672558>>612672281>Cool, so what choices would you implement in a game like League to incentivize old school dedicated server style gaming?I'd allow actual old school dedicated servers, and decent mod/map support, and let the community do whatever the fuck they wanted from there. That's it user. I'd also still offer an official one for those that wanted a baseline, even folks who spent most of their time on crazy servers might occasionally want to dip a toe back into vanilla normal once in a while.But a centralized corp cannot replicate a decentralized community. The incentives just don't work. People won't volunteer the same time and effort for something that is "owned" by a megacorp and might be snatched away or monetized at any minute. A megacorp will be pressured by "customers" to clamp down on "toxic groups". Power goes with responsibility. The only way to allow things out of vanilla to flourish is to let them be on their own, so that the company CAN'T mess with them and can truly say "that's a fully independent set of folks with nothing to do with us and running their own hardware, talk to them."What's killed it is a desire for total control by lots of devs (for a variety of reasons, not just greed).

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>>612673176rent free

>>612634419They have had sex.

>>612673192In other words, nothing can change unless people are allowed to run their own League servers where they can customize shit and scream "nigger" at each other?

>>612673214

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>>612673410I'm just saying you bought up trannies out of nowhere. That's rent free.

>play game off meta>teammates bitch at me>turns out it was actually better than the "meta">no one gives a shit until some youtuber spoonfeeds it to themi play video games to think for myself and come up with strategies, if i want to walk some path already beaten flat i'll do it with a game that has lasting power and a high skill ceiling like quake 3 or street fighter 2also people who "play to win" need to find their own parties before the que up, why would you ever expect to win with complete randoms you just met? or is it because you're such an insufferable top-down commander cunt that no sane person ever would sign up for such torture?

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>>612673384It's about giving them the keys to freedom. What they do with it is up to them. That's kinda the point.But also, having them be able to have their own servers where they can call each other niggerfaggots all they want is a load off my shoulders because they'd want to go where they can throw slurs around freely and not the normal servers where they'd just get banned and stop being a source of revenue for the company.

>>612673384I've never played League for obvious reasons but I might give it a shot if that happened for that game or other matchmaking-only games like Quake Champions, Overwatch, etc.

>>612665041Because that is what the metafag fears more than anything, getting to the point where everyone else is also playing meta so they don't have a crutch to stand on.

>>612673620I don't really care if they want to scream niggerfaggot at each other. Kids will be kids. I care about getting "machine gun Annie mid" in my ranked solo queue.

>>612634578fpbp

>>612671002Shouldn't the massive shitters and kids be leagues away from you in low ranks?

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>>612666523Playing blindfolded

>>612673698I hated the end of Y1 Destiny PvP because the meta was insanely simple to get in on. You grabbed TLW, Thorn, or Hawkmoon and went to town. That was it. Nothing else was remotely as viable as doing one of those three and PvP matches became fucking boring because of it. I started having more fun running No Land Beyond than I ever did playing with what others were using.

>>612673384>In other words, nothing can change unless people are allowed to run their own League servers where they can customize shit and scream "nigger" at each other?Yep. Though they'd also have the ability to instaban anyone who said "nigger" too. They could make a server where everything is replaced with foam and bubble weapons and you gently herd and make friends with creeps and at the end everyone sits in the middle and whoever produces the best food and has the best diplomacy wins the vote to win the match. Servers only for verified full time working adults. Servers only for those willing to put 20 hours a week at least into the game. Whatever. Even if you're old you may have missed (with some sad irony given your attachment to LoL and its connection to DOTA) the Warcraft 3 custom scene and the sheer creativity and variety that existed there. People came up with a lot of stuff, including the seeds of games you clearly like now.Indeed that's part of why corps tried to control it: Blizzard was eternally mad about failing to monopolize dem DOTA bux as if they somehow should have had a right to it. But as they found you can't just mandate "be creative for free and then we'll take anything successful :^)". And again, incentives. Pretty much every modern dev wants to sell worldwide these days. If you have centralized only servers, then any country on Earth you want to sell to has some coercive power. The bigger the sales need the more the risk.

>>612673830NTA, but it's even worse the higher up you go. People who feel like they've already "won the game" (i.e. diamond+) really don't give a fuck anymore.

>>612673473>he plays spy>I'M the one that brought up tranniesyeah right ok

>>612673738>I care about getting "machine gun Annie mid" in my ranked solo queue.I don't understand what that has to do with this user? Letting the community do their own servers too in no way at all stops there being an official default ladder and official unranked servers. Being the defaults most will stay with them anyway because that's what most normal players want most of the time. But then there is room for misfits as well and for everyone else to see what works and what doesn't and get more experiences if they'd like. If anything, it'd let a dev be MORE, not less, stringent on the main servers. Now a ban merely means "go play on the community ones or do your own".

>>612635209imagine caring this much about pixels lol

>>612674135>still talking about tranniesrent free

>>612671002normal and ranked are essentially the same gamemode on league, where on something like tf2 servers have huge differences, like a comp server having certain weapons banned, crits disabled etc while casual having no rules.plus i doubt league have custum stuff that dedicated servesr had like custum maps made specifically for silly shit, or maps made specifically for comp faggotry. Lets not forget custum gamemodes aswell like surf maps, prop hunt etc. it had infinite choices while on league you choose between playing with shitters or playing with pros, while both are matchmaking too instead of a server browser

>>612658986I WILL exclusively jump toward you to advance. I WILL mash buttons to try and do special moves. And I WILL have fun doing it.

>>612646753>play for honor again after several years>play lawbringer>they removed shove on blockHe's still dogshit but now there's no fun in playing him.

>>612634419This is why love Dota 2, the weirdest shit outside of the meta can work amazingly well.

>>612673952>But as they found you can't just mandate "be creative for free and then we'll take anything successful :^)"it was funny to me watching them hype up OW's workshop and how you can do whatever you want, and then it produced nothing of worth in the slightest besides board game ripoffs and other small timewasters everyone only plays in their matchmaking queues

>>612674224>tranny talks about how they're a tranny>acknowledge this>wow you're still talking about trannies rent freemental disability

>>612668183Metafagging in tabletop is embarrassing.

>>612674603>randomly brings up trannies out of nowhere>still talking about themrent free

>>612674495>it was funny to me watching them hype up OW's workshop and how you can do whatever you want, and then it produced nothing of worth in the slightest besides board game ripoffs and other small timewasters everyone only plays in their matchmaking queuesYeah, but also just plain made me sad. WC3 custom was so fucking incredible, and it was just obliterated, and now tons and tons of people will never know the feel or what can be. We can use words to describe it but I fear it's just impossible to truly communicate without having been part of it and now tons of gamers are growing up in these sterile fully centralized settings and internalizing and that and they just literally can't understand what people miss.Another problem with trying to make it centralized and Official is that it inevitably brings in the big corp lawyers. There were plenty of fun custom things (and always have been) with questionable adherence to certain copyright or IP, or that someone powerful might deem insulting or whatever. When it's individuals dicking around small scale nobody is going to bother, or for something like THIS IS THE SLANDERS people will just tell them to fuck off. But if it's being 1st Party Officially Hosted on the Official Workshop suddenly it's also the company's problem and there is a big central target to aim at. Which means anything even vaguely risky will get banned even if it also has the kernel of some interesting gameplay somebody else might have then run with in a different setting. And when you know crossing some vague line might get you instabanned it just kills creative juice. Why bother in the first place?

>>612672379>>Absolute chaosARR frontline in ffxiv was gem mint. It's absolute meta shitcrap now after they adjusted everything for arena

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>>612674762>Metafagging in tabletop is embarrassing.Ah yes. The munchkin. Embarrassing type of gamer going back to D&D probably almost as soon as it got big and started being played by (mentally) young. Munchkins might well be the original metafag, insistent on "winning" a fucking role-playing game. We all knew one though, and maybe even some Holla Forumsirgins were one for a while back in 6th grade or something before hopefully realizing they were missing the point and that "losing" in hilarious outrageous fashion while making the DM seethe and roll for asteroids falling on your head was also super fun.

>>612670251>Playing optimally means you will lose to bad players or high ping playersBrood War is a funny game.

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Half the fun in a game for me is the discovery phase when you're learning the mechanics and looking up guides and a meta kills that entirely, and I'll probably end up picking things up through osmosis if it's a multiplayer game anyway. I'd much rather try and figure out my own build even if it's not optimal. Doesn't automatically mean something memey like str wizard, but if I want to take the hat of big dick damage for my wizard instead of the cloak of spell spam then I will even if it's not the meta.

HOLY SHIT DID YOU SEE THE NA TEAM RUN THAT STR WIZARD?IF YOU AREN'T BUILDING FISHPOLE STAFF ON WIZRD YOU'RE THROWING

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>>612670264Holy shit, actually accurate post. Well done user. This is what top players across all genres will say.

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>>612675884It's not optimal if you can't execute. That's something metashitters, as opposed to the actual tip top 0.1% meta creator players, frequently fail to understand. In some games I guess even just going through the right motions and "build order" or whatever is inherently better even if you're slow so "copying the meta" maybe is helpful anyway. But in a lot of games with serious skill something that is the meta for those who can execute perfectly actually kind of sucks if you can't. Good games often have high risk high reward stuff where nailing it with single frame timing is awesome but you are brutally punished for whiffing it too, whereas other moves do much less damage or whatever but have more invincibility or quicker recovery and are more forgiving overall to minor mistakes. Blindly doing what the best do is literally worse for someone who isn't the best.Same can apply to other games. What's better, a single expensive glass canon or a bunch of decent stuff spammed out? Well, how good is your micro. If it's not very good and you're playing against someone else also not very good maybe you squash the elite tier meta glass canon because they fuck up.

>>612639090That sounds really fucking sad

>>612671002>League of LegendsLiterally a matchmaking gameNormal and ranked are both the bottom one, don't pretend otherwise

>>612638290>I have two jobsSo you're retarded

>>612677525>>I have two jobs>So you're retardedNo, he just hasn't kept up with the 2022 job meta!

>>612671002>The implication being that, if only they were given the option to do so, all these different categories of player would willingly group up with others of their own kind and everyone would be happy in their own little corner of the gameUh. Yeah.Allowing people to freely disassociate with others that they don't get along with works wonders.

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>>612634578Losing is fun?

>>612634419If it's a PvP game? There is strategic value in playing off meta if it means you can go with something that exploits the meta weaknesses while dodging regular meta counters, say like yugioh and meta decks.If its vs a PvE game? Get a life virgin, play however you want.

>>612677681kek>What do you mean pay attention in school and get an easy white collar job that pays well?>I choose to do unskilled wagecuckery 80 hours a week because it's FUN bro

What the fuck is a meta?

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People who act like going off meta is intrinsically more fun are usually just contrarians that barely understand the game, but after 3 hours of total gameplay declare war against any beginner advice and think they are somehow smarter than everyone else. To really have fun going off meta, you need to actually understand the meta in the first place.

>>612678175You're just waiting for someone to say "what's a meta with you", aren't you.

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>>612678341I genuinely do not know what "meta" refers to in the context of multiplayer games and would like to know.I have no interest in puns, you jaded, bitter individual.

Tiers are for queers.

I play off meta in Dead by Daylight and have fun

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>>612678440>I have no interest in punsAnd you call ME jadedThe meta is just what people generally call the most common and/or best choices to try and win with

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I run around using melee in fps and despite the constant bitching from teammates about not "playing the meta" or "not using a gun" I always have nearly double their kills, less deaths, and twice the objective time.Metafags can slurp my fucking nutsack.

>>612634578>fippy>is also the bippy

>>612678091I mean even if you dropped out and didn't get a GED, if you're still willing to work hard these days you'd still be better off putting it all into a single job and advancing up the payscales. Companies are fucking desperate for domestic workers, nearly any warm body will do if it's not actively criminal and drug riddled. Even for those who are normally utter bottom tier now past 12 months have been a time of massive rare opportunity that may well already be fading if we're about to hit a recession. Anyone who could hold two separate jobs though could likely have found one job better in 2022.

>>612678440In multiplayer games its effectively the strategies and choices that are the most popular, usually due to how much of an advantage or numerically strong they are.If you dont have the skill to do the meta strat, then you shouldnt be doing the meta strat.

>>612678440Geez, what's the meta with you?

>>612678440The meta just refers to optimal strategies/playstyles, as curated by the community.

>>612672497NTA but the problem with server browsers is ultimately 99% of the community would just be playing meme mod shit or ludicrous house rules and if you wanted to actually play the game you bought after work in multiplayer too fucking bad.

>>612678592>>612678824>>612678962Thanks

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>>612671002not only wrong in so many ways, but also MOBA player

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>>612679003If a community is big enough, 1% is all you need. Even games like Garry's Mod have populated vanilla servers.

>>612678921

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>>612673830The trench never ends, because the standards rise with the rank.

>tfw people seething at me in classic WoW for using an int staff on a warrior even though I thoroughly tested it and it did higher damage than most options at that level.

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>>612638602How bad do you suck that you're in the same MMR as someone who thinks losing is fun? kek

>>612678440>>612678592>>612678824>>612678962Meta means self referentialMeta gaming means using outside knowledge in a gameIt has never had anything to do with optimal strategies

>>612634419Because the meta thing is usually something extremely fucking boring that turns the game into an idle game. If someone can't understand that basic concept, they may have actual, unironic autism or something else wrong with their brain.>Why do people wanna use anything other than the most powerful and optimal thing in this video game? I don't understand why people want to have fun with other things in this piece of software that is supposed to be fun above all elseSomething like that. Those people do exist in the thousands, by the way, it's not just me shitposting.

>>612679647Based elf not making things easy on himself, hope he gets swole and becomes ruler of his twink elf kingdom

>>612679005Man, I was just rereading some of Youjo Senki, great taste. Try reading Chapter 52 along the song "Daredevil" from AC7, start the music when they first engage

>>612680552Will do.

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>>612677781Games where fun is predicated on winning are simply shit games.Play Super Mario 64 and stop getting exploited by bad devs.

>>612666523the speedrun meta armor passively damages you

>>612679735>It has never had anything to do with optimal strategies"The meta" though isn't merely "metagaming" and it definitely means essentially "what are currently considered the most effective strategies amongst top tier players that people are deploying and trying to figure out ways to counter". For seriously competitive games with decent balance and high skill ceilings it's a fairly constantly moving target and liable to major disruptions by things like new patches too. Sometimes new strats are just additive but since they're cool and new others try to replicate them and see how they work as part of the toolbox. Sometimes new strats flat out obsolete old strategies because they always win vs them (or most of the time). Early in games too the meta moves very fast as the skill ceiling itself goes up, that's when a lot of the silliest stuff is done.So sure "the meta" involves stuff outside any given single game, the overall gestalt of the top of a competitive community. It can be interesting to be a part of for the right people, then there are follower types and so on.

>>612671002>there's NO WAY people would CHOOSE WHO TO HANG OUT WITH>cites literally the least fun game of all timeanon confirmed friendless

>>612671002Holy shit this is the most retarded faggot zoomer post I have ever seenCongratulations

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>>612681135>>there's NO WAY people would CHOOSE WHO TO HANG OUT WITHYeah that's actually a pretty sad zoomer commentary really. Like imagine this poor bastard, he literally cannot imagine finding fellow players with similar tastes rather than a computer telling him who to play with via some algorithm.

>>612680823>the speedrun meta armor passively damages youbased, sounds like good design>if you're good enough to do this fast enough you get more damage output and the health drain doesn't matter>if you're shit you get punished the health drain adds up to higher then the benefit

>>612634578/thread

>>612634578FPBP

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if devs will ban for not playing the meta they should just remove and patch out all the non meta options

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>>612683689Thanks Crazy Dave, I hope I never get mixed up in something like that again

I'll use what I enjoy in games. Sometimes that's meta, sometimes it's not. Depends on the meta. ...what I don't like are people who are specifically "anti-meta". The meta is a moving target in most games these days. It changes. What's the point in literally just being against anything that's popular? I have friends who love certain things in games when they're not meta and the second they get patched to be good those things are "cancer". Have a fucking backbone and base your likes/dislikes in an authentic way. I think most of that is those people being scared to use those things because if they're using something meta then they actually have the burden of having to perform instead of having an out as the righteous person struggling against the evil meta. People acting like they're better than others doing their best to win are super fucking cringe.

If everyone just played meta the game would be boring, and when the meta's stale, people stop playing. That's reason enough.

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>>612634419I double gas and rush Thors every match because giant mechs are coolIncidentally my bro and I are on a 15 match losing streak in 2v2s

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I'd rather play a game where I can join a casual server and not give a shit about meta, either because it's some dumb infinite-time free-for-all, or because it's an entirely different gamemode, or whatever.Anyone who cares about "the meta" are faggots who are playing games for the wrong reasons, and I don't mean in a "hurr durr using a shitty build is fun" kinda way, I mean in the sense that only compfags care about that shit and anyone looking to have fun would be better off playing on a community server dedicated to fucking around and having fun.

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>>612634419meta? I just want to burn things

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Alright, here's a question. Let's say there's a fighting game out there, or whatever game genre of your choice, where you've got tons of options. A good size roster. And there's one character who, simply by selecting them, the moment the game starts, you win. You have to expend zero effort, and not put any thought into a strategy or your actions, just automatic win. If both players pick that character, it's a draw.Would you pick that character? Why or why not

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>>612685836I would not and I would bully anyone who did. More realistically I would just not play the game

>>612634578They are also the biggest no fun allowed crybabies who begs the developers for nerfs.

>>612685836I main Lei Wulong. what do you think

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>>612685836I wouldn't pick that character.I also wouldn't play that game.

>>612634419Because they are cowards too afraid of losing and having nothing to blame but themselves. So they make the excuse of never going to try. It's a low risk of emotional investment for people too afraid to lose.

>>612634419obsessing over meta is unironically the most npc bugman thing you could do

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>>612634419There are some games where The Meta only gives you a slight edge, and some games where someone just can't keep up without doing The Meta.

>>612634419Optimizing all of the variety out of the game makes the flow of every in-game engagement monotonous and predictable. Developing your own unconventional playstyle and succeeding with it is far more rewarding.

>>612677781Honestly seeing my metafag teammates cry and type essays to me in chat is unironically very fun. I just picture their messages with a funny soijak image and it usually fits perfectly.

>>612634419What kind of shitty games do you play that makes playing meta a hard requirement?

>>612670145It only happens if you don't play with randoms.

>>612634732No you don't. Unless you're a professional player the meta doesn't mean shit. In league of legends you could beat 99 percent of retards with tryndamere even though he was bottom tier in pro play

>>612634419same reason they are lefties. they are retarded inbreds who can't just be normal

>>612634419Because meta is boing and by definition optimizes fun out of the game.

>>612634419Who.The fuck.Cares.It's a video game. People have the right to be retarded in video games. Nobody should care.

>>612646290actual answer thanks user

Those who compare meta with jobs, what the fuck, it's just optimizing, and it doesn't require any more effort than just playing the thing with your brain off. It's like a part of life, common sense, anxiety-driven decisions, it's like an automatic feat of not being a complete retard. How do you even not optimize your playthrough as you play it? If you don't follow the meta, then you're just playing retard on purpose, or actually have some serious brain cell deficit

>>612634419I have yet to find a game where playing the meta makes the game an enjoyable experience

>>612670792Imagine posting Grigori and completely missing what he was talking about in the first place.

In any game that has PvP, I prefer to use the weakest options available.

Meta is a necessary evil. The alternative is a game that gets constant balance updates and doesnt let anyone settle into it and learn it inside out. Therefore meta = comfy.

I miss Going low in CSGOfuck those retards about ruining fun and being competitive

>>612634419because i take more pleasure in absolutely destroying meta-fags with non-meta things.taking the meta because you think it'll get you the most victories is called a skill issue. try gitting gd instead.

>>612677781What a pathetic life you live.

>>612634578fpwp

>>612634419>Meta is usually based on some e-sports players with a coordinated team and is weeks out of date>We're a bunch of faggots who can't agree on anything and my choice will work well with that because whatever weaknesses my stupid meta breaking has would need to be exploited by a coordinated team while also allowing me to exploit the weaknesses of whatever opponents we're fighting that would usually be covered by a coordinated teamGee I don't know.

>buy multiplayer game>look up optimal builds/items/strategies>stomp non-metatrannies with 2000 hours of playtime on my first try

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>>612637745You don't have many to burn in the first place

>>612686435You're making shit up

>>612697871>You're making shit upWelcome to Holla Forums or really just internet discussion in general.

>>612677303Are you ok?

So what's the meta for this?

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>>612697358More like:>shitter runs babby's first meta build as recommended by some autistic twitchfag's youtube tutorial>still gets BTFO>screeches in the chat about their team being bad despite clearly being the biggest liability

>>612634419Same reason I don’t play competitive. It’s more fun to play what I like than it is to play meta more often than not. So I stay in casuals, you stay in ranked. Sound good?

>>612698785The game is pretty balanced but at the higher skill level it basically just turns into Jhonny because his skill ceiling is just so high, with the occasional Randal counterplay.

bet these zoomies are talking about league of legends or some other gay shit

>>612634419Why do some people genuinely care about how others play video games? Sometimes even to the point of having an anxiety.

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There's a big differnce between actively using shitty tactics, builds or gear not ment for whatever your playing as and bringing down everyone who has the misfortune of playing with you and using stuff ment for your character and having an actual proper build that can actually pass as usable but still not considered meta

>>612699124I bet there's a few good donny the dome players that easily counter Johnny with their special since it let's them survive possibly just enough to get an attack in

>>612634419why am i having more impact on the match than you despite intentionally dodging the meta and why does this offend you?

>>612638602>I think losing is fun in multiplayer gamesIncorrect. I think losing is fun in singleplayer too. Imagine being a fag who cares about the destination more than the journey. I have fun moments when I lose, I have fun when I win. Games are a hobby. Not some dumb bullshit exam that I have to study for to make sure I'm having fun correctly.>BUT *I'M* NOT HAVING FUN! YOU'RE RUINING THE GAMEDisconnect from the match then, faggot.

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>>612685836Depends on the game and how contemptible its community is.

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Does mario cart have a meta? (save for ds which was filled with drybones players) Do people really care about what character you use and if you bother to know how to snake or pull off pixel perfect super short cuts?

>>612677781YES

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>>612699946>Does mario cart have a meta?Yes, notably Wii had Funky Kong on the Bowser Bike and MK8D has Waluigi on the Wiggler quadbike. Can't speak for Double Dash or the rest personally but I'm pretty sure in the case of MK64, speedrunners pick Yoshi.

>>612700279Based DF enjoyer

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>>612651395>>612670145top always happensbecause nobody ever talks during matches or socializes

>>612699124>JohnnyZippy smalls is just Johnny but with better health if you use his special right.

>>612687058people playing meta are too dumb to learn anything by exploring their options. they are afraid of losing, so when they do fail, they accept it as an inevitability. something completely out of their hands.

>>612644751>opponent can't move because he'd -ACK himself>it concludes in a draw :^)Nice game chess cuck.

>play factorio>oh there's blueprint system>if you use it there's no joy found in the game>if you actively avoid it you have funwhy do you want to rush video game anyway?

>>612637564the only based and true takefun is what people make of it, not everyone will find the same thing funit's time for people to stop coping and seething and accept the reality that we all have different tastes

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>>612638075Yeah but actually good sniper or spy can fuck your team really hard.

>>612700995is vex bad? is lol still an anti mage game?

>>612634419It's not the meta, it's the rules

I'm convinced most people don't even know what a meta even is. I think most of you faggots even believe metas are somehow avoidable. They're not. Metas are a byproduct of taking a game even somewhat seriously. Metas exist in every type of game, from sports to board games. Obviously, vidya is no exception. Metas also usually aren't stagnant, with changes in the rule set, technology, or surrounding culture changing the meta. The only place where I think metas are stagnant is sports, and that's largely because spots have existed for so long and are played by so many that they've largely been solved, and obviously sports don't have rule changes very often. This is why sports matches are often decided by which team has the better players instead of which teams use the better strategdy. Metas are actually one of the main reason why this can happen. Without a meta every match would essentially be a dice roll decided by which team happens to have the superior strat with no individual skill involvement at all.Chess is a great example of a game where despite there being no rule changes the meta has changed over time. Romantic chess was all about making flashy plays. Then came scientific chess which was about actually getting good. etc. etc. up until today where chess has massive influences from chess bot who keep coming up with crazy new strats that no human would have thought off.>Taking it seriously = no funWrong. Though it does kinda depend on what you define as fun. If you're the kind of faggot who only has fun when you're essentially just assing around then a meta wouldn't be fun I guess. But if you're a normal person who at the least wants to try and win than playing on meta is more entertaining.

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>>612701268Sniper and spy singular. Not plural.The valve assigned "support" classes become exponentially worse the more of them are on a single team.>More spies = the enemy team is more alert of spies>More snipers = no one to cap the point

>>612685836Sums up anti-meta fags in a nutshell.>Oh you're using a good character? Well that's basically a cheat code.

>>612703262Metas are bad and you should feel bad for using them. Metas are always a byproduct of people who are anti-meta devising new strategies. If those strategies are strong enough to be dominant strategies themselves, they become meta. >>612703652You sum up meta slaves better.>Just because you can beat me with one hand behind your back doesn't make you the superior player.

meta is forever the enemy of funno one other than addicted autists actually wants to adhere to some bullshit rulebook or trend, and with the nature of how quickly things can change due to tactic and patches, it's not worth investing any interest or time

>>612634419>>612634419The Meta is gay. Remove meta from games

>>612634578Wooooooow

>>612703914Maybe if you followed the trolling meta properly you wouldn't be so obvious.

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>NOOOOOO YOURE DOING IT WRONG YOURE NOT FOLLOWING THE METAAAA>YOURE RUINING THE GAMEso

>>612704154It's a simple logical inference. If the old meta gets destroyed, then the new thing becomes meta. Who is most likely to be using new thing before it becomes meta? People who are anti-meta.And if you're the other guy, it's another simple logical inference. If something isn't meta, it's either unknown or weak. So if you beat people without using the meta, you're either stronger or smarter. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a troll.

>>612634419>I like the character/weapon for various reasons and enjoy playing it>The "meta" trivializes too much of the game so I'd rather not useI'm more worried about the possibility that rabid "metafags" actually exist, meaning people that actively seeth at you or report you if you don't play meta without even checking first if you're good at the game or no, thankfully this has never happened to me.

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>>612704384>If I use a weak character and beat you I'm better>If you use a strong character and beat my weak character I'm still betterIt's such a beta bitch attitude to have.

Just quit Lost Ark and the meta is so ridiculous there. Any raid could be beaten with shit equipment yet everyone accepts players with meta builds. Having a engraving that isnt meta but still does dps? Not invited.

>>612704384It's not like a meta is usually a wide ranged of possibilities that naturally allows for experimentation or anything.DOTA 2 is the perfect example of a game where the range of what is meta is incredibly wide. And because DOTA 2 has pretty wide gaps between the patches we can see a meta properly develop. Hell, in DOTA the meta often has late-stage developments.Once again you don't know what a meta is. You think a meta is "ONLY THIS THING IS ALLOWED AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS BAD!" but this is simply untrue. The process you described isn't people playing off-meta. It's people experimenting with the meta.