Nationalism and Capitalism

Well it's good that you recognise that. I was aiming this thread at those people that seem to think they are both libertarian and nationalist.

Wow, that pic says absolutely nothing. We don't know the allowed answers. If it's a free choice poll, it measures the number of drones in the nation (normally, different people would think of a vast number of different answers). Or if the answers were grouped afterwards, easy to manipulate retroactively by a correct choice of groups. If there are fixed choices, are some of them obvious choices? (murderers, thugs, rapists) What about answers with significantly different cultural implications? I suppose unlike most of the world, India would not pick "people who shit on the streets in broad daylight".
Not to mention the kike media in the bottom right corner.

Sounds pretty left-wing to me.

actually no, theses few integral duties of the state is really not that expensive at all and requires only a reasonabal amount of taxes. also tarrifs can cover a huge amount as well.

wasn't this thread about 'capitalism'? the argument here is for a market based society that also is nationalistic

Right okay, so market based but not capitalist?

No it doesn't. The US was a tiny government, yet Americans were proud to be Americans. People came from around the world to be Americans.

If another country owns your nation's assets, then you have a policy that has weakened your nation's economy. Fix the policy, and things will straighten themselves out. Err on the side of non-intervention, and your economy will grow until your countrymen own the entire world.

Literally the worst immigration control ever

You don't need to control immigration when you don't have a welfare state. People came here to work hard and enjoy the fruits of their own labors, not those of others. They did this by serving those already here. They adopted our culture as their own. This is the type of immigration you want. People who wanted a handout stayed in their own country, because that was where they could get one.

Fuck off with you magic dirt civic nationalism cuckoldry

Nope. Left wing would be if everything was owned by the state and no market elements allowed. Which is not good either.

Of course, for people brainwashed by capitalist kikes anything not liberal, lolbertarian or neocon is islamig gommunism.

Define American "nationalism" Do you even know what nationalism is? You can have some vague "patriotism" at best, and that's the ingroup preference with people you don't really have that much stuff in common with.

South Africa hardly had a welfare state and look what happened to them when the Bantu were allowed into the nation en mass

Tell that to the native Americans….

Racial Nationalism and unrestricted capitalism are contradictory. The very act of commerce with a race other than your own is questionable from a nationalist perspective. Europeans should trade and do business only with other ethnic Europeans, we must stop feeding our genetic rivals.

GENOCIDAL TRADE WAR NOW!

Internal capitalism. Have regulation (aka "smart trade") only on international trade. Btw, in a truly capitalist society, there are no Intellectual Property laws, because 'copying = stealing' is just a kike invention which allows Jews to be Jews. In a truly capitalist society, corporations are NOT considered artificial 'people'.

Private companies would be paid to inspect the quality of products, by businesses that want their seal of approval. Poor inspection leads to problems, which cause faith to be lost in that sea, thus less busineses would pay to get their seal of approval. In this eay, there is actually a good checks and balances system. Capitalism makes honesty more profitable.

Any monopoly would either be beneficial to consumers, or it would cease to be exist. Because a new businesses would pop up to take away business from a monopoly's overpriced goods. Right now this is less likely, because it is much more difficult for small businesses to handle financial pressures of regulation. And they usually don't have the the money for lobby the government.

what is the difference between the two words in your view? I tend to see 'capitslism' as an umbrella term for any system that recognizes private property to any extent just based on how I have always seen people use it in general. but I also see that the origins of the term is from early socialist who really see it as a pejorative yet I don't know a word that would adequately replace the word 'capitalism'' with the definition I just described.

If you have enough "private property" which allows you to forcibly deprive other people of their private property, the whole point becomes redundant.

You could consider the state like a company, and the world a capitalist system.

There's a problem with nationalist socialism where if you begin considering that the people within your borders are equal (because of their nation), sooner or later someone will forget the second part and get the idea that if people can immigrate and gain citizenship and be considered "equal", than why have restrictions at all?

*then

Market-Socialism exists? I guess that's not Capitalism? I don't know really.

That's a much greater problem with "national capitalism" or however you call it, because links holding people together in such system are practically non-existent. Their interests are completely non-cohesive, which will sooner or later lead to someone importing foreign labor as it's most profitable for him.

And national-socialism is not about equality of outcome, but equality of opportunity. Capitalism never has equality of opportunity, which is bad for any society long term (you get degenerate inheritors holding all the power and reproducing, while quality people get ditched because no money and/or connections)

That's why kikes like capitalism so much, it's like a poison that slowly corrodes society and all the links between people.

Racial nationalism exists to avert this problem. An ethno-state would enshrine genetic requirements for citizenship into the constitution.

I believe this is your mistake, and the mistake that others on Holla Forums make.
I'm more than willing to bet that any "nationalist capitalist" on Holla Forums advocates a free market only for their home nation. You can summarize it as "libertarianism for us, fuck the rest". I want a mostly free market between states here in the USA for example but Mexico, China, and the rest can go eat a hot dick. And of course the state can do whatever is found to be necessary to control the market within the nation for the good of the people. So I think nationalist capitalism can really only work in the USA.

Anti-slide bump

So like only US based companies?

DESIGNATED

HOMOGENEOUS

STREETS

why is Holla Forums nationalist in the first place?

There is a very very long answer that boils down to biology trumps ideology and that race has a significant effect on how people function. The races are infact different sub-species and mixing in large numbers is detremental for everyone. It creates not only ethnic but also cultural and social tensions that tear acountry apart. i.e. America fueled by the media and academia have allowed issues of race and culture to compound to outright racial hatred in all parties. The Mexicans attacking people for their politics because the majority of illegal immigrants are mexican and they have an in group preference.

Because healthy organisms are molded by evolution to increase the numbers of their progeny.

Did you ever think maybe that's because rascists demonize them?

Demonize how?

You have to go back, Pablo.

The question of whether non-whites have or don't have in-group preferences is irrelevant. Non-Europeans don't have a right to live in our countries.

that's just from his response

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The thing is that I can understand the nationalist's argument. I empathize. Their culture and their traditions are important to them, and I respect and understand that. Everyone has some culture or tradition they respect and feel a part of, and that's healthy and good. I understand their fears about mass immigration, and I understand their desire to maintain national, local, sovereignty.

What's funny is that the nationalist doesn't seem to understand that internationalism is the answer to his problems. Why do Arabs come to Europe? It's not for the weather. It's for the economic and social conditions. Most people would rather stay at home, if they could earn a decent wage to live on, and be safe from harm. Sure, some people just want to move for the sake of it, but the majority of migration is due to economic, political, or social crisis. And people will come, legally or illegally, if their lives are at stake. The only real answer, the only long-term answer, is to stop the reason they are coming in the first place. Help everyone have a good home, so that nobody wants to live in yours.

It's not our job, we'll take care of our nation they can take care of theirs.

The U.S. was founded for our benefit by our forefathers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

Kikes have temporarily subverted our institutions, giving non-whites the misleading impression that they have the right to live here. Sorry for the misunderstanding, now you have to go back.

And so they will keep trying to get into your well taken care of nation. And you will still have these same issues.

Yes Mexicans are attacking trump supporters because they support border control which will mostly affect Mexicans. Their attacks in turn stur resentment from the white population that in return flock to Trump.

Immigration only became an issue when it became unregulated in the first place. The fact of the matter is Holla Forums is against the same type of things that make those countries shitholes in the first place. Namely globalism and international banking. If we cannot remove them from influence in our own countries how would we fix anyone elses?

I agree. The reason that they are coming is because we are ruled by a clique of international merchants who have invited them. The solution is obvious.

The countries of brown people are shit-holes because they happen to be full of low-IQ subhumans.

And if we remove the appartus that both sustains the leftist theory and fucks us we can sit back and see just how much water the material theory holds.

If you see a lolberturdian, remind him he is an autistic liberal and can't be taken seriously.
Yeah I'm not on that boat thank god.

I should add that this time we won't be stepping in if it goes south because that will only give rise to more claims of colonial victimhood, let the chinese do that and suffer that fate.

In reality, if Europeans turn nationalist, it will only be a matter of time until our population growth once again outstrips our indigenous resources. Once the subversive internal elements are dealt with, there will be no reason not to eventually restart the colonial displacement and elimination of non-competitive populations.

Fuck that, we can keep our populations stable simply by being a first world nation it doesn't have to increase or decrease. That's a lie fed to us because more births means more labour means we can sustain for a bit longer the economy that must rely on getting bigger and bigger to outrun it's self imposed debt hole thanks to fait currencies.

If you see a lolberturdian, remind him he is an autistic liberal and can't be taken seriously.
Yeah I'm not on that boat thank god.

Official reminder that Murray Rothbard and Milton Friedman were both against Open Borders

lewrockwell.com/2016/04/bionic-mosquito/open-borders-anti-libertarian/

Tell me what makes the National IQs of Islamic or African nations so much lower than White and East Asian nations.

That's not how life works. We have been given the gift of being the dominant lifeform of the known universe, it is our evolutionary duty to multiply our people and spread throughout the universe until our expansion is halted by cosmic heat death or an even greater race.

Farming in cold climates generates strong evolutionary pressure towards greater planning ability and social cooperation.

Whoever made that is retarded. The Brits fucking sunk the Jap navy, and more than that the Portuguese traded rifles with a tribe from Japan in exchange for them becoming Christian.

The Westernization of Japan. I'd call that influence.

So most Africans had life to easy and didn't have to develop.

Never colonized mate, i'd say the closest they got was the US invasion or the The Meiji Restoration

What would a Holla Forums nation look like? I think it would be fairly isolationist with a relatively free domestic market.

Do you guys think socialism all together is bad or maybe progressive tax rates could work at some point?

It would have a civil war at day 1

I'm ok with this.

Preforable to 80 years of Bolshivism.

A Holla Forums nation would not be isolationist, it would cooperate closely with other ethnic-European nations in order to achieve our shared goal of a European planet.

Different states should experiment with different forms of economic optimization. Whatever economic arrangement works to increase our strength, numbers and genetic quality most efficiently should be adopted.

Eventually, all ethnic European states will merge to create the Imperium of Man, and begin to spread across the universe. As different human groups branch off and become isolated, the process of diversification and re-absorption will continuously repeat itself throughout the universe, allowing potentially superior new genetic lines and social strategies a chance to develop, ensuring that our race will continue to evolve. Policies should also be put in place to ensure that diversification does not get out of hand and lead to speciation, contact between human populations should not be allowed to decay beyond the minimum threshold required to maintain genetic compatibility.

Absolutely haram.

Only by mixing all old people's of EVROPA can we make the ultimate Homo Europicus (no homo).

The European states can keep their identities, but once Asia, Africa and South America are completely colonized by a mix of different European peoples, creating vast new burgerlands that will substantially outnumber the population of the home-continent, most of the people on earth will self-identify simply as Europeans.

bump so I can read this after work

Correct. You can't have Nationalism without Socialist elements, because in Nationalism, your Nation is your collective group. Libertarian Nationalism is thus a laughable contradiction.
That doesn't mean that there can't be private businesses. international Socialism or Communism invented by kikes was created to steal all land and resources from native population and enslave them by making them completely dependant on the ruling elite.
It is a forceful separation from Nationalism, artificial and doomed to failure because it doesn't follow the natural law of hiearchy and racial awareness.

Nationalism is bad for the economy. Good for purges. There're times when free-markets won't work because the elites won't allow it… and with socialists gaining power, a reactionary movement is started that is right-wing in nature.

Even libertarians, without admitting it, understand it's nature's way of putting the real world on hold in order to demoralize and subvert ungrateful collectives. All libertarians need to worry about is who best to trade with. Capitalism can exist under any political system, libertarians only exist to influence govn't in the right direction.

As much hate as we receive. People realize that our job positions are in high demand and quite necessary to markets. But we don't get the credit we deserve because that will give leftists too much power in result.

A lot of retards out there.

This

What about Caeser and Augustus focusing more on the Roman citizens and free people?

That is a retarded statement. Imagine a socially conservative domestic free market system with high tarrifs and an anti-immigration policy where the citizens can own firearms like in the US.

Nationalism doesn't mean you have to give 50% in taxes to pay for treatment for the hobo that got AIDS.

iirc, Caeser increased taxes and the Franks were gaining a lot more influence over Rome as a result.

You got your time periods way messed up there m8
Unless the other user isn't talking about Julius

What you described is not exactly a Libertarian system.

You're right, because the state regulates imports and exports, as you described in your own post, so that workers in your own country don't get hurt. So no, you wouldn't have to give 50% to unemployed and homeless people.

Ok well besides tariffs then what socialism are you talking about? The only thing I can imagine is raising taxes to pay for universal healthcare, education, etc.

I am talking about socialist elements, not as in completely socialist oriented system. The state takes care and does what is best for its people as a collective, people help each other no matter their social class.
Also, by regulating imports and exports self-sufficiency becomes more important. So a Nationalist state needs to ensure that enough food, energy and other vital resources are produced for its population. That is why Libertarian Nationalism contradicts itself.

What is now called Socialism is just taxing people to pay for the needs of victims of the Global Capitalism and in some cases, for shitskins who have no intention to work.
It's funny how people bitch about government raising their taxes while supporting the system that causes millions of people to lose their jobs and get on welfare.

Protip: don't view everything from economical point of view.

I don't necessarily see why. Disclaimer: I actually do support a powerful state, but I don't see it as a necessary component of nationalism.

There's a distinction between domestic free market and international free market. To support one you do not necessarily have to support the other. Examples of this include current globalists (love free trade, hate domestic free markets) or the Founding Fathers (supported DFMs, opposed free trade). You're right that international free markets ("free trade") is not in any way compatible with nationalism, but domestic free markets (henceforth just called "free markets") very much are.

Not as much as you'd think. Tariffs are an insanely lucrative source of revenue (proof: the US ran a budget surplus every year until the 1900s) and can easily combined with other discretionary taxes to fund everything needed. A major discussion point in US politics before adopted free trade and the Fed was how to eliminate the budget surplus because they didn't know what to do with the money. They ended up in many cases hiking tariffs in order to disincentivize importation and thus decrease revenue. Personally I think they should have just lowered domestic taxes, but that's besides the point.

Anti-free trade. Again, distinction between domestic and international trade.

Don't blame them. It's a stop-gap name to describe a very coherent and established political position. Plus it's not any more nonsensical than "libertarian socialism," "left-wing libertarianism," and the like. Libertarianism is in fact very broad and not necessarily pro-free trade (or even open borders). In fact pre-2014/15 or so that was mainly a fringe an unaccepted libertarian flavor, at least on the Chans.

We have no duty to develop these nations. Cooperation should be done, and yes under free market conditions, but the idea that you can train niggers and sand niggers to play nice is fundamentally retarded. We gave these countries capitalism, and they shat on it.

right wing conservative in uk - monarchist
right wing conservative in US - classical liberalist

GAS THE OP SHILL WAR NOW
GAS THE OP SHILL WAR NOW
GAS THE OP SHILL WAR NOW
GAS THE OP SHILL WAR NOW
GAS THE OP SHILL WAR NOW

I have more respect for South Korea now though.

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If it's a problem who cares what the cause is? Cost-benefit-wise there are lots of costs and no benefits, making it shit, "evil racists" or no.

Also, expectancy theory is bunk and basically negligible when compared to genetic factors.

We don't want to see our people disappear. Who gives a fuck if some chink wearing a beret LARPs as a Frenchman if the Frenchmen are all dead? Who cares if the culture and traditions survive when the people don't? Would you replace your children with strange orphans who acted more like you?

Pity for them that their ancestors never went through hundreds of years of pain and struggle to give them that. Oh well. Our only concern when it comes to them is "How do we keep them out?" and if the answer is "You can't" the question then is "How do you most easily kill all of them?"

Their lives will be at stake alright.

I'd rather shoot the guy attempting to break into my house, eat my food, rape my wife and daughters, then set my property on fire than give away my stuff trying to help "people" who can't be helped.

And the solution is bullets and bombs.

t. chink

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sage

Just understand that this "clique" is just "the capitalist ruling class" and that the system that produces them is just "capitalism". Even if you killed all the Jews, some other group would take that place. Understand that the real cause of these problems is the structures of capitalism itself, not the people who occupy those structures.

We have historical records of what capitalism was like before the Ashkenazim infiltrated our elites. Our elites were aggressive nationalists who facilitated the expansion of European peoples across the globe. Ashkenazi influence has caused our elites to betray us, and the betrayal by the leftwing political elites has been just as great, if not greater, than the betrayal carried out by the economic elites.

Turning to leftwing economic policies will do nothing to solve our problems, since the primary economic policy advocated by our leftist political elites is the unlimited importation of subhuman helots.

The merchants must be excised from our elite, and racial treachery must once again have consequences.

Citation needed.

Which parts specifically?

COME TO ENDCHAN, IT'S BETTER THAN Holla Forums

endchan.xyz/pol/

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A strong state doesn't have to restrict the people's liberty.

This is the main difference among Holla Forums

How much freedom are you willing to give up?

Don't listen to the "national libertarians" they are just a bunch of autistics.

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Big Government =/= Strong Government

This is the biggest flaw in neocon and libcuck logic.