There is no magic or metaphysics. Only natural law

Among existence there is no magic or metaphysics. Only the natural and illusions.

The universe is boundless in time because cause always precedes effect, and that effect then leads to another cause. Therefore if an effect needs a cause to occur, and an effect then leads to another cause, then doesn't that mean the cause and effects leading to the present are infinite? If nothing can violate this law doesn't that mean cause and effect have been going on for eternity and will continue to go on for eternity?

Also doesn't this conclusion essentially invalidate the freeze death theory? If cause and effect have been going on for eternity then how can the universe have a linear lifetime? If all the energy of the universe was concentrated to a single point then started expanding, then what caused the energy to be concentrated there? What was the cause and effect preceding that event? Due to the logical inconsistency of this theory it's unlikely to be true. Rather the alternative Cyclic Model (particularly the Steinhardt-Turok model) of an oscillating universe is much more likely. That the universe undergoes self-sustaining cycles of expansion and contraction.

Nothing can violate the rule of cause and effect.

Anything that appears like it ascends beyond cause and effect and into "probability" is simply a illusion. It isn't "random," rather a system that appears random instead contains a long strain of small cause and effects too complex for human comprehension or merely out of sight from human perception (like a magic trick).

Life exists because enough causes aligned in a certain point in the vast universe to produce the effect of life. Because cause and effect cannot be avoided this event wasn't random, meaning it was going to happen, but it also wasn't caused by a "prime mover" (planned by a creator.)

Therefore if cause and effect is an infinite chain, then there was never a prime mover to begin the first cause. A philosopher that lead me to this conclusion was ironically Evola. In Evola's entire works nothing has struck me so profound as his analysis of Gods. That in ancient mythology there were lesser Gods of "becoming" that pertain to linear mortals while higher Gods of the aristocracy were Gods of "being." Where there existence is because it is. Of being. Perhaps the infinite strain of cause and effect can be interpreted to be a passive "God" that resembles the ancient Anglo-Saxon pagan concept of Wyrd (or fate). Or perhaps one can interpret this to mean that God himself is infinite and the inherent nature of existence is his will incarnate.

However I must note that even though I ascribe ascribe to the first belief, I have to admit romanticizing scientific concepts is an attempt to justify a faltering belief system and an appeasement to dying metaphysics.

This concept of "being" is the basis of our existence. Through our limited observation we deduce that existence itself must have a beginning and an end because mortal humans have a beginning and an end. However both of these are an illusion. The energy/matter that makes up humans cannot be created nor destroyed, and therefore always existed. Meaning humans are arranged and disarranged. When you die your matter is merely scattered back into the universe where it will give form to other systems of existence. We are born because through the harnessing of energy and the allocation of matter our mothers and fathers constructs us to continue life and sedate their inherent instinct of procreation.

I wish I could right more and explain the self fulfilling purpose of life and our inherent needs, but I don't have that much time. Though I'm happy to say that life, existence and our perceptions can all be perfectly rationalized. Absolute truths can be found.

Please argue, criticize, and contribute.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalism_(philosophy)#Methodological_naturalism
drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=22&ch=7&l=18#x
biblehub.com/revelation/22.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae
livescience.com/49958-theory-no-big-bang.html
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Bump

Magic is just science not discovered yet.

Time does not exist, only our perception of it exists.

k.

Yes but how does this relate to big hentai titties?

Your whole post is an obfuscated way to say that God does not exist. Back to /r/atheism.

DUDE
WEED
LMAO

op your whole post is the most basic understanding of real atheism. Sorry for shitposting, it's just not anything new. I'm glad you made it but, trust me, we know.

Also we live in a flat universe whose sum total equals zero, or at least that's the currently popular theory. Nothing, or a zero-sum universe, doesn't need a creator.

prove that god exists.

They are a miracle of the universe. Proof the gods haven't abandoned us.

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Why don't you prove that you got the whole universe figured out before you make a claim that there is no God.

This is why the logical positivists sucked.

what is this SPOOKS GENERAL?

Prove it.

Is that a painting of a scientist suffocating a loli's pet bird in a vacuum? Top fucking kek.

>>>/religion/

That's not how it works. You made the claim god exists. Prove it. The burden of proof lies on your shoulders

I also made no such claim that god doesn't exist. I simply asked for proof that he does. If you're so sure he does, then you should have no problem providing me some evidence.

I never said God exists, and I'm not saying that Atheists are right in saying God doesn't exist.

Knowledge of God's existence is impossible to humans.

PRAISE KEK
R
A
I
S
E

K
E
K

MEME MAGIC AFFECTS THE PAST, BECAUSE IT AFFECTS THE FUTURE, BECAUSE TIME IS A CIRCLE (A LITERAL LOOP)

your "Back to /r/atheism." indicated you were a Christian. Fair misunderstanding, I guess.

Yeah, but I was curious to see what Holla Forums thinks. I'm not surprised it was shitposted into oblivion right out of the gate.


It was attempting to use some examples to explain the concept of being.

I didn't want to go into detail so I used a metaphors and a metaphysical philosopher to explain the idea.

I realize the irony but this form of abridged communication is the best way to express a sliver of an idea without diverging into explaining your whole philosophy.

And I'm not going to /christian/ either. They're good people, but I wanted an actual discussion.

This thread is OP's worthless attempt to make us materialists.

What a lazy way out.

check 'em boys

I'm not sure which way you're going with this. I mean, it sounded like you were implying that "hurr durr w/o muh sky wizard the universe can't have been created b/c muh linear time", but then in the replies you say you're an atheist.

Which is it, OP? You're only echoing the flawed understanding of atheist enlightenment that Christ-stains exhibit.

I can't into any of this. Just seems like reductive materialism and naturalism. If true, then how do you explain all these demons that haunt me? Also, what the fuck does any of this have to do with politics? Nothing.
INTO THE SAGE CAGE

Not impossible, just difficult to attain.

uh yeah you should read some plotinus and hegel before you dismiss things you clearly don't understand

then prove he exists.

oooooOOOoo deep

who is the observer?

...

Even though materialism is inherently cancerous to society for the lack of a moral system and hierarchy, I cannot remain honest with myself and romanticize life when human nature can be easily explained through psychology and biology.

I don't mean to threaten your belief system as any human needs one in order to be mentally consistent with himself, but doesn't dismissing the idea just a knee jerk reaction in preserving your worldview? I feel like most people dismissing the idea without entertaining it are trying to preserve the notion that reality isn't in control of something that isn't in association with us (a God.)


I wasn't saying that God is behind the eternal strain of cause and effect, I'm just saying that its logically consistent to conclude that cause and effect is eternal.

They're calling me an atheist because I'm dismissing the possibility of a prime mover (because it's logically impossible), but I reconcile this by suggesting that God could possibly be a passive entity that takes the form of the universe's series of cause and effects.

I'm not really an atheist, I believe God is existence itself and isn't in a conscious form. But the natural law of this world is his will. I made this thread for the sake of asking the question, because some people are logically inconsistent with their beliefs and they need to come to terms with it if they're willing to live a honest life. Personally I believe if you don't question your moral system and beliefs it truly doesn't matter to you, and only takes a passive role in your life.

In classical physics, you're right, but as soon as you get into the shitfest of quantum fuckery things just happen for no real reason or cause. Check out quantum fluctuations and quantum foam.

I'm not really gonna comment on your philosophy, just your century late view of physics which I don't really blame you for, classical physics is all the human brain is designed to comprehend, or is needed to navigate the universe on our scale

My bad I fucked up that last sentence:

I feel like most people dismissing the idea without entertaining it are trying to preserve their perception that reality is controlled of a higher being in order to sedate their natural fear of the unknown/unpredictable.*

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You did that yourself, skippy. Anything that happens must have a cause, you said yourself. Time can't be infinite since we would never exist waiting for an infinite point in the past to catch up with us. All of our experience tells us information can only come from an intelligent source, and all biological discovery since Darwin has demonstrated that we are indeed composed of information. See embed related, skip to Berlinski at 35:00 for the good stuff.

PS the Earth is not a spinning ball

Memetic magic is real!

Logical positivists were trying to end the bullshit in "metaphysics" like trying to figure out the nature of shit that's incapable of being known because it's effectively gibberish. Shit like "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" levels of stupidity that people were wasting their time on.

OP is just a moron using words he doesn't understand.

There's multiple branches of Naturalism. When I refer to natural law I refer to it as in the context of Methodological Naturalism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalism_(philosophy)#Methodological_naturalism

see response to

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*tips dawkins book

M'professor

WTF let me post cripplekike!

still waiting for that proof, fam

The closest thing to magic is computer science.

Natural law is a metaphysical concept. Saying there is no metaphysics, only metaphysics is at base a contradiction. A & ~A. If that wasn't what you intended to express, then you fucked up at square one.

god is the beginning and the end acording to the bible

string theory states that the 1st dimension is a point with no width, depth, or length. The 10th or 12th dimension (depending of which theory your looking at) describes it as a point which contains all previous dimensions volume, while taking up no width, depth, or height.

So therefore reality matches what was written in the bible 2000 (or more) years ago.

I'd say that is pretty compelling evidence.

None of this obscurist bullshit.

If so, then where did god come from?

How can you assert this when we don't even have a conclusive understanding of white "time" even is.

Why? Cosmic background radiation and light carry "information", but those haven't been deliberately produced.

Everything is composed of "information". After all, "Information" is just the word we assign to something we've made understandable to humans.


Fuck off

Shit you're right, I realize that now. I made the mistake of associating the term natural law with Methodological Naturalism.

"no"

but it can come very close

stopped watching there. Fuck off with your pseudoscience creationist drivel.

Why should I believe the bible?

No it doesn't, you've just decided that this is the only valid conclusion due to your already existing biases. Where in the bible does it state any of the things you've just described? You're just trying to retro-fit new theories and apply them to your age-old book.

True, but Quine showed they were still doing metaphysics, which is the point I'm making. People like Ayer, who wanted to eliminate metaphysics through analysis, were still making reference to abstract entities (like mathematics and logic). By doing so, Ayer and others were committed to such entities at some level. The logical positivists were nominalists (like Quine) who just happened to have sparse ontologies.

There is no escaping metaphysics for people who deny it exists in the first place.

Sage

In your perspective/experience. You also have the tone of a person not ready to open your mind up to anyone else's opinion. I was an atheist before and always used hurr "bio" and "psychology" as a be all end all. Expand your horizons and entertain the people's thoughts before you say yours is right. This is the type of ignorance that is completely cancerous and will ruin all of us as a species.

no. it means there must have been a divine first cause.

No, that's the only conclusion you've made acceptable to yourself. If there was a "divine first cause", then what caused the divine to exist in the first place?

From what I understand, the point was never to undermine all of metaphysics, it was just to cull the stoner-tier "what if your green was my red lmao" branches giving the whole of metaphysics a bad name. They generally went about it by showing the terms these retards used were either complete nonsense, or argued in circles indefinitely.

They failed to reach their ultimate goal of eliminating all of the garbage and preventing it from ever springing up again, but that was a pretty high reaching goal and they did succeed in tearing apart much of the pseudo-intellectual dribble in the process. They can also be considered to be the ones majorly responsible for the focus shift into language philosophy which has actually been remarkably productive.

No, look again

You can always walk north in a straight line. Each step brings you further north. Once you reach the north pole however, even though you're staying on the line, every direction is south. And so, on your northward path, there will be a final step north.

Come, let us be inebriated with the breasts, and let us enjoy the desired embraces, till the day appear. -Proverbs 7:18
drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=22&ch=7&l=18#x

You might as well be a blind person asking about colors.

Because it makes sense regarding what we do/can know about time.

What information? And even if they did, yes, they are deliberately produced since they're part of the universe.

You didn't watch the link, what a surprise. The DNA molecule contains code - meticulous, specific, irreducibly complex code - that could not have come about via materialistic means.

Confirmed for retard. You're probably 13 but that's still no excuse.


Your DNA wasn't written intelligently I guess. Keep on having faith in Einstein though, hypocrite halfwit.

Nice dubs.

The chaos waves are coming.

that seems like saying distance doesn't exist, just because the units of measurement are arbitrary doesn't preclude something real underlying it.

This

Time isn't linear

And man the first man was molded out of clay or something, right?

Praise kek.

MY ARMOR IS CONTEMPT
MY SHIELD IS DISGUST
MY SWORD IS HATRED
IN THE EMPEROR'S NAME
LET NONE SURVIVE

biblehub.com/revelation/22.htm

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie

16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Invisible unicorn kind of argument

Than what the fuck do you think RNA is?

Oh I meant to include this link

You aren't wrong, but you ignore that most people, by design, have a deep seated emotional need to romanticize the unknown. We would have missed out on a lot of art and innovation without it, irrational as it may be.

t. Anthropologist.

Pretty sure that's just allegory, junior, like most things in the bible. Never choose a deliberate lie over an honest I don't know.

Prove it.

Go away, Carl. If you can't give me a valid answer then you shouldn't assert unsubstantiated claims.


A lot of things "made sense" to people in the past that turned out to be false. I wouldn't consider this a valid argument. A lot of what we're discovering in physics today is extremely far from "making sense", so again, that's not a valid argument


Sound is information. Light is information. "Information", like I said, is just the word we use to describe anything natural we've made understandable to humans.


DNA just contains "stuff" that humans have interpreted in such a way as to make a code out of it. Any "information" from the DNA is merely the human interpretation of what we are seeing. Maybe another species of alien would produce a different conceptualization of the very same "stuff". Also, there's plenty of junk or inactive genetic "code" which, as far as we can tell, has no reason to exist in humans other than being an evolutionary byproduct. Humans also eat and breath through the same hole, meaning we can choke while eating. This is a horrible design. How do explain this with your "intelligent design" hypothesis?

Why not? You just assert this without providing any justification.

wew lad.


I love how creationists try to mock people who accept scientific facts as being "faith-based" or "reliigious", when faith and religion are exactly what they're trying to defend. In their sheer ignorance, they basically spout "Ur science is just as unbelievable and faith-based as my precious book, so don't question it under any circumstances!! muh praise jeezus"

Jeez, I can tolerate Christians but when they try to back up the bible they just do mental gymnastics.

Thats my point.

So where does that end? You post that image, yet you still get to pick and choose what is and what is not allegory or metaphor?

Watch this video, these people do this based off of this verse

Do you pick and choose? Where do you draw the line? Are these people right? Or are they wrong?

exactly

Which do you choose?

Wew lad.

Wew


"Why is there anything instead of nothing" is a question as old as time itself. Bonus points for seeking an answer, however if the way you go about it is that of a child, refusing anything that isn't spoonfed and good for your fee fees you're never going to get anywhere. The bible has virtue of being an ancient text derived from an even older oral tradition. Because of its popularity it's also handy as a form of philosophical/historical reference for millions of people.

t. Agnostic

You still dont get it? Im arguing against the flawed interpretations of the Bible as if its literally applicable in every scenario a human may ever face.

Sure, its great if people derive "Thou shalt not kill" and all that out of the text, but there is a point where people have trouble discerning metaphor from command and you end up like the retards in that video. Im not trying to dismantle the morality provided in the book, you fucking moron.

And furthermore, you say I "refuse" things? You havent offered me anything aside from a snarky shitpost.

I mean jeez, sorry I dont see exactly eye to eye with you with your own individual interpretations of the Bible, dude. My fucking bad.

And you have the nerve to respond to people with shit like "you might as well be a blind person asking about colors". You cant pretend like you are above anyone when your posts have zero fucking substance.

Arguing against flaws, how very intellectual of you. But not the flaws in Darwinism of heliocentrism, amirite? You're just as religious as the people you claim to disagree with, only dishonestly so.

This is like arguing guns kill people except dumber. How about not being a reactionary fool and instead of pointing your finger at others actually employ some critical thought, ever think of that?

I gave you a link and time stamp to the scientific argument for forward looking memory. Not my fault you're just a post-pubescent autist who's not actually curious about anything.

I'm not big on the bible myself, dude, but dismissing it out of hand based on the perceived interpretations of people you don't like is all kinds of retarded. The fact it doesn't have any citations or bibliography should be kind of a clue that it's not the most credible source. Riddle me this Einsteinberg: is there another ancient text you can name that is a credible source for creation?

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Saved

The Bible acknowledged that the Earth is round, not flat.

Everytime I see that gif, I'm disgusted by the jaw/chin fat expanding and contracting. And I've seen that shit before king niggers second term

See link here

You're also citing a quote that just happens to be the go-to quote for globeheads who deceptively swap "globe" for "circle". I'm sure that's just a coincidence though.

Link related, the circular Earth.

(I use free vpn btw so it switches a lot)

Fuck off Sinead

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae

smh tbh fam

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Before the moment of creation (the Big Bang) there was neither space nor time. Time literally only started 13.8 or so billion years ago.

But surely some time must have elapsed to allow the matter and antimatter to condense in the first place, yes? Otherwise the void that existed before would be for all eternity.

And before you fedoras get on my dick, Abrahamic faiths have the exact same problem: what existed before God? More X-cucks dodge this question than kikes dodge ovens.

...

I don't think you understand what you are saying is

Next time you write a wall of text, make sure it can't be destroyed with a couple of words.

Space-time is a continuum. Space cannot exist without time and vice versa. Before the big bang there was no space-time.

There was no void. Before the big-bang there was no space either.

define magic.
metaphysics is what is beyond physics. it's the field of study that pertains to causation theory, possible worlds, substance dualism, etc…
metaphysics exists.
prove that experience is a physical substance or your proposition remains contentious.

what's natural is what is. it's not exclusively physical unless physicalism is true.

maybe. maybe not.
either there is a foundational cause or there isn't. the existence of a foundational cause is not incompatible with an infinite chain of events.
also, you cannot prove your proposition that every effect has a cause if this causal chain is reduced into infinity because such a cause is inconceivable.
the argument defeats itself.

or not.

true. i worry you have a restricted view of what this means, though.

true. probability is epistemic.

no, based on your theory, it is random. considering your theory, the world is just a bunch of random things that move and produce random effects. the only reason it isn't random is due to determinism and that life happened: just like anything else could have happened.
also, a prime mover wouldn't be incompatible with this theory. you're assuming a foundational cause has a plan. not necessarily. it's simply a foundational cause.

no. just because there is a foundational cause does not mean this causal chain doesn't proceed into infinity.
furthermore, a foundational cause would have to be eternal if we're to accept that something cannot come from nothing. an infinite series of events falls within the scope of an eternal existence. in other words, eternity falls within the scope of eternity, logically.

consider the theory of conservation of energy in terms of an infinite source rather than X amount. also consider that it isn't necessarily true.

this is true.

sage

t. Technocratic Union

yea except string theory is kinda… bullshit.

Nigger do you even know what that word means?

what existed before the only thing that existed for eternity, and is the source of anything that exists? this question is illogical.
in terms of the past, yes. nothing physical would have existed, assuming the big bang theory is true the one who came up with it was a priest btw :^). i'm friends with one of his family members. god is eternal and all that.

meme~ majik!

so fuck you

There is nothing to suggest that this is the case.

Ok

Only objects exist, objects have a shape

Concepts do not exist, they do not have shapes. It's a way to organize thinking.

Natural law, time, the universe, these are all concepts, its things we think, not things that are.

like clockwork. fedora shit flinging it is then.

big bang was dropped a while ago matey, The new hotness is an uncaused eternal universe.

livescience.com/49958-theory-no-big-bang.html

Natural law is held in place by metaphysical forces dip shit.

What you're describing is infinite regression, which can not be the basis of valid logic.
What is the cause of existence of the universe? If there is no cause, then it violates cause&effect. If there is one, then it must be a so-called primal cause. You must postulate either a primal cause or existence without cause (in which case, we can't truly rely on cause&effect in e.g. science).
What constitutes "more likely"? Can you measure the likelihood each model has of being correct? If not, then it's just a tricky way of saying "I want it to be true".
Let's assume that this is true. Since you mentioned probability in the quote above, that part of your post is an illusion.
Since when does "random" mean "wasn't going to happen"? Fuck your redefinitions.
Or they didn't. You have no scientific evidence for either, but it's mathematically extremely unlikely that a working cell, constituting of DNA, RNA, RNA-ases for polymer synthesis, additional enzymes for DNA replication, transcribing to RNA and verification of this process, PLUS metabolical pathways which are necessary for a lot of reactions to run, plus cell membranes, capable of feeding and division, actually appeared because "causes aligned".
There have been countless attempts to produce proteins in vitro, to create a so-called RNA world (in which RNA is enough instead of a full cell), etc. Not a single one was able to produce anything close to a living cell, because it's just so incredibly complex.

False. These two statements are different:

RIP logic.

wouldn't have noticed if you didnt point if out

This whole post can be summed up easily by kants criticism of metaphysics.

Arguably metaphysics takes concepts like causation that belong in our sensory experience of the world and have meaning only in that context. Kant for instance argues that to talk about the universe as a whole is to misapply causation by using it outside of its proper empirical context. This doesn’t make Aquinas’s cosmological arguments wrong, just meaningless and nonsensical.

Ham's half of that debate though made no sense, and he continually said "there's a book." He couldn't possibly defend his values, he just prattles on.

The problems with the cosmological arguments start with the necessary being, while there may be a necessary being it does not necessarily follow that it is a personal moral God that it is even a sentient being. A second criticism is that of the unmoved mover argument on the notion of potentiality and the duality of all things. It is not the case that x must be caused by what is already actual x.

Aquinas is awesome but outdated m8

If life is self evident proof of god, then humanity is the god.

Creation is not proof of a god, otherwise it'd be an endless series of gods creating gods leading us back to the conclusion- what creates a god?

But if life is proof of a god, then life itself is the god that created itself, and then created the god.


The simplest argument is that god is consciousness, and that consciousness is not housed & generated by the mind, but that it is the mind which tunes into consciousness like a radio would tune to a station.

As with all the threads asking whether God exists or not I would say you are just asking the wrong questions and any answer you get will be about as satisfying as say '42'.

Consider the athiests wager

You may live a good life and believe in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.

You may live a good life without believing in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.

You may live a good life and believe in a god, but no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a positive legacy to the world; your gain is finite.

You may live a good life without believing in a god, and no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a positive legacy to the world; your gain is finite.

You may live an evil life and believe in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to hell: your loss is infinite.

You may live an evil life without believing in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to hell: your loss is infinite.

You may live an evil life and believe in a god, but no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a negative legacy to the world; your loss is finite.

You may live an evil life without believing in a god, and no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a negative legacy to the world; your loss is finite.

I would assert that living virtuously, or acting how you expect a virtuous god would expect you to act is more important than realizing if that god exists or not.

Here's the problem: a good/evil life is different for everyone. Progressive commies also think they act virtuously, only the leaders are handwringing kikes. To them, they are good and we are evil.
What is a good life and why? An independent set of morals is required in order to have an answer. Where do external morals come from? How do we know they're true? We don't - ultimately, a degree of faith in something is necessary, logic is not enough.

hehehehehehe

Eat shit learningkike.

We don't understand reality as much as we'd like to believe we do.

The chaos of quantum mechanics, and matter behaving differently if someone is observing it or not. I think these are the roots of what we call "meme magic" or in other words, shitposting so much that reality warps.

You have demons haunting you? LOL! You believe in too much 'ism"

you are

Epicurus solves the deity worship question. Stoics solved the Spiritual question.
Nietzsche killed the kike God.

/thead

Feels good man.

\whooops!
wrong meme: Epicurus solves the God question

Being able but not willing to prevent evil does not automatically make you malevolent, for example a parent who lets their child touch the hot stove to learn the lesson is not something anyone would call malevolent. If the whole point of living is to experience life then god/gods/whatever holding our hand through the entire experience renders the whole thing moot.

So then why are we here? Surely if he was omnipotent, he would just build a simulator and build some sort of ideal human. If this is the case and we're currently in a simulation for that purpose, we're eventually going to figure it out, whether we like it or not. Likewise, I don't think the ideal human (depends who you ask I suppose), would be submissive without question. Christianity's god seems to want absolute and unquestioning faith, otherwise there wouldn't need to be the threat of eternal damnation. Humankind's simulation would naturally grow and find that their god is a just god or find that he isn't worth following, let alone worshiping.

Simple, god only weighed law & truth, but never considered there would be good, or evil, and so gave both those too in abundance.

I just don't understand how "space" can be fucking infinite. How can something just exist and have no end or beginning? Makes no sense. Whatever…

...

Nobody can answer this confidently and as an agnostic I haven't even totally decided on a personal answer to that question but we may very well be here for no other reason than to be here, for reasons ranging from us being an elaborate form of entertainment to us being aspects of god/the gods/whatever itself wanting to experience it's own created reality from limited, subjective viewpoints. We may be here for no reason other than to feel feelings and sensations and all that brings into ones life.

Well I don't think an ideal human is the goal myself but even if it was you are approaching that problem with the ideals and morals of a mortal human being and not those of an omnipotent god.

Not if said omnipotent being didn't wish for it, being omnipotent and all.

I'm not a Christian so I agree. I also believe damn near any form of organized religion is a cancer upon humanity. Faith is a personal question and pretty much all historical attempts at forming and maintaining religions weren't done with thoughts of god but with thoughts of control over ones fellow humans.

What if isn't ? Does it matter? So there's a literal wall where space "ends", whats beyond that wall?

Why do you retards keep trying to disprove causality with cosmology? Even if causality was violated 15 bya, who cares? It still doesn't get violated today.

And it's not like causality is a real law. It's just a rule of thumb scientists use in technical discussions, in particular planning experiments.

You totally ignored the truth and twisted it into some closed box example of a shitty parent, not EVIL. You're fucking sick in the head, user. Even your example was stolen. = brainwashed.


EVIL definition: profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.

Malevolent definition: wishing evil or harm to another or others; showing ill will; ill-disposed; malicious

If there is no Evil, then there is no laws of your kike God or sin or forgivness. If there are no kike laws then your God is undefined

If he gave both then he purposely did it AND IS MALEVOLENT.
If he didn't consider and as you say "couldn't see it coming", then God couldn't prevent it and was NOT omnipotent, so why call him God?

JESUS KIKE YOU BRAINWASH JEW WORSHIPERS ARE STUPID.

That question discards the existence of free will other than that of God.
Free will means being free to do evil (within one's physical constraints); permanently removing evil would mean trampling over free will. So which is more important?

Free will again. Everyone can answer that question for himself.

This cosmos was conceived through magic.

Here is where you demonstrate a profound misunderstanding of what I am trying to say. I'm not even going to bother with how retarded the rest of your post is.

Yes!

I understand that it is denied by normies, they can´t think of scientific reasons why it should be possible in the first place.
Haven´t anyone else here been witness of something that shouldn´t be according to mainstream science? -)

Give him time to read his religious scriptue. The bible is a spiritual maze with entrance when you first read and exit when you fully understand. But the maze is just a maze, meant to confuse, consume time, wander aimlessly.

I think it's funny how Jesus' real name was Yahushua van Haren, and his entire life's work was overturned to satisfy the church's lust for power and greed. The whole church is just a quagmire of priest-child fuckery.

"Science" hasn't even the most basic grasp on consciousness and you're trying to tell us you have the answer to the universe.


Pseudoskepticism is a scourge of the 21st century.
and I'm not even religious

But the purpose was just well beyond our understanding and was probably an elaborate joke.

Good & Evil are beyond the consideration of a god that is both and neither.

Because we are that god and did it to ourselves.

You're asking a philosophical question on Holla Forums of all places. A bunch of christians and retards shitposting is just what you can expect.

Cause and effect are the product of observation of reality. We notice that an event is preceded by another event and that an event's existence is predicated on past events: that the present is the ongoing and continuing manifestation of past processes, as they move into the future.

Primitives then try to extend this concept out into the universe as a whole, positing a primal cause which the universe is an effect of; god or something similar. This primal cause is then made an exception to the general rule and is itself uncaused, undermining the theory.
Either the requirement of a cause-effect relationship is necessary or it is not. You cannot have it both ways.
If it is not, then the universe does not require a cause and there is no basis for belief in a primal cause.
If it is, then the primal cause must itself be the effect of something else and is thus not the primal cause.

The solution to this is an infinite regress of causality where the universe has no beginning or end, both spatially and temporally.

Except infinite regress is a logical fallacy, not a solution.

how is it a logical fallacy.

This was savage. Wew lad.

All these anti Trump threads and then this. Reddit , you and your chan outreach program disgust me and everyone here. We are not going to ever join your degenerate communocucktheist cult. Please tie your pc to your neck , go up the roof of a 10 story building and jump with it. Noone is going to miss you. Your fellow redditors can join in the fun. That way you will also find out if there is a god or not anyway so it will be a nice adventure for you.

If God didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent him

It does not follow deductive, Aristotelian logic. You should start with axioms (statements which have to be accepted without prior validation) and using them, plus possibly experimental observation, show that your conclusions deductively follow.

Your "infinite universe" hypothesis needs to be validated somehow, and the only thing you're providing is "proof by desperation" and false trichotomy - you propose three options with your own definitions and claim that since two are false, then the third must be true. You basically told logic to go fuck itself.
This is false, by the definition of the primal cause. The primal cause is not a cause with an adjective slapped in front of it, it's a term for something which does not have a prior cause. We don't have to accept its existence and can't prove it using deductive or experimental methods (it can only be postulated); however, it provides one possible solution to the cause&effect problem.
You label someone as primitive for not rejecting the same things as you. Be careful not to cut yourself on that edge.
This is trivial. If we discard cause&effect (one of the so called First Principles), then science and a lot of logic is not grounded in anything. In addition, adult responsibility relies on aware of our actions being the cause of something, potentially harmful to others or society; without it, we're reduced to nigger-like behaviour.
Another of the First Principles is Non-contraction/Excluded Middle, which you use correctly
It cannot be proven, but we need it as an axiom in a rational debate.

Afterwards, we need something more. The existence of a primal cause as another axiom is one choice.
Let's assume that your assertion of an infinite universe existing is true; cause&effect (without primal cause) is also true.
Let's apply the cause&effect question not on a part of this universe, but itself as a whole. Why does this universe exist - what is its cause? By cause&effect, it has to have one. You didn't solve the problem, just delayed it.

Even if we accepted infinite regress through another set of axioms (such as the universe itself being a primal cause = not having a cause itself), it is not the solution. Our imagination is limited; there could be an infinite number of other answers, probably making more sense than yours.

Enlightenment bullshit.

You cannot use an abstraction to accurately govern a country or society. It will fail.

I'm done here, this shit has been asked by philosophers over centuries. Go read a library.

I did not provide 3 possibilities. I demonstrated the contradiction inherent in the postulation of a primal cause, from 2 different perspectives.
I then offered a solution to those contradictions.

Causality is infinite because there cannot be an uncaused cause. If you think that there can be, provide an example or reasoning as proof.


Basing your argument around something being true because it is defined as being true is retarded. The definition of a primal cause as being uncaused, while at the same time being used as the justification for the necessity of a cause for the universe, is at base self-contradictory.


It's not, actually. If one is to say that there -must- be a cause for the universe because everything within the universe is caused, and then to say that this primal cause is itself uncaused, is to undermine your own argument.
Contradiction.

No we don't. And certainly not because you say so. I've already demonstrated why.


That's fine, because our knowledge about the universe is limited and our view into the past has a perceptual horizon. There are some things we can't know and there is only so far that we can trace the chain of cause and effect back into the past.
I am not pretending otherwise.

If, on the other hand, you are asking me what was the cause of causation, then that is a nonsensical question and we are indeed done here.

Causation is the process of phenomenal (inter)activity over time (a measure of change). It is a way of describing how the flux functions and is not a distinct phenomena that requires external instigation (through itself). Read Heraclitus.

free will has nothing to do with good or evil, idiot. That's a cult definition. Your will was never "free". You do what you do. Reason is the closest thing to freedom you will ever know as an animal. STFU with your Satanic Catholic definitions.


And you can see how he was invented by basic history.


Every successful society was governed by natural law. You just had your head in the clouds while the Priests-Monarchs-Elite-Scientists knew it was all lies.

what proof would make you believe in god
this is important because if you are someone who denies everything then nothing will make you accept truth

Blanket bullshit. Every successful society was governed by guys who gave fuck all about natural law and did what seemed best given the circumstances.

That's like living in cave all your life and saying there can be no sky.


That's like being inside of a computer and saying all that came to be originated by chance from the push of the power button. A computer is a good analogy, it has matter (electrons), space (drives, ram, circuits), and it has time (CPU cycles, uptime, POSIX time). (((experts))) and autists like OP would say nothing exists outside of that.

Fuck you. It's called Might Makes Right! Just because you worship Jewish fairy tales doesn't mean you get to force the rest of us to ignore reality.

Atheists are hardly fit to survive anything. All talk but no action. Probably a beta loser with no white children, no way to defend himself, probably some relativist who thinks Nietzsche was right (even though he died alone in agony).

Yeah those old dead guys who still knew of God had such shitty civilizations right? They didn’t even have hentai!

I Disagree.

Why dont you just go die in an orgy, satisfying your inherent hedonistic instincts.

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Is anyone else seeing this?

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Now you're name calling like a Leftists. You /christ/ scum ALWAYS talk like the Left when you get BTFO through a rational argument. Atheist is just a Marxist term for not Christian in your confused view of the world. You don't have God on your side, you worship a fucking Zombie Jew from a book that's impossible for sad fringe weirdos to agree on.

Face it, YOUR GOD is dead. It's time to move on to a better future rooted in our actual past, not Adam and fucking Eve.

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Sweet dubs, btw.

Shut up slave. The fire Rises

How is this even possible?

Guys, I'm so sorry for checking those dubs, I may have started the dubsvalanche.

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So there was nothing and then poof, a magical eruption of matter?


This entire thread is just logically reducing the question down to an axiom.

Either the universe started from nothing, and turned into something, or the universe has existed forever and will always exist.

This question is inherently impossible to answer, since it requires information from OUTSIDE our existence. You cannot make a definitive statement without proper data, and you cannot have proper data without a controlled system.

I suggest everyone who is interested take a look at the Ancient greek philosophers and their ideas and thoughts on axioms. They have literally had the same conversations as these before, but they have logically concluded them as well.

Did you not just witness the magical eruption of those sick ass dubs?

Read it.

go back where you came from

That's because you believe in Beginnings you degenerate. Plato ruined Philosophy with his stupid excuses.

How come no one in this fucking thread is talking about the god damn ==DOUBLE SLIT EXPERIMENT==


Where did you get that last name from? I googled but came up with nothing

Zero results

Have a look at Brans–Dicke theory.