How does Holla Forums protect against bitrot?

Most of you probably backup important files to external drives with redundancy, but what steps are you taking to prevent against "bitrot"', or subtle bit flips over time to faults in the storage media, kernel/filesystem errors etc.

Other urls found in this thread:

arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/bitrot-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/1/
youtube.com/watch?v=6qjUS746kUw
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_detection_and_correction
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

I use redundancy.

I mean you just said it nigger.

I meant redundancy as in backing up to multiple locations, not any form of automated error correction. If you have two backed up files and one changes, which one is correct?

The one with a correct checksum.

The Cloud

Would be nice to have that automated. This article talks about features for that in ZFS and BTRFS, so I am going to look into their features. Right now I am just using ext4.

arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/bitrot-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/1/

but what if the checksum changes ...

Just use existing backup software instead of manually copying. I use Dejadup, a front-end for duplicity - it comes with encryption, incremental backups (saves a lot of space) and integrity checking.


In that case it doesn't have the correct checksum, so it gets rejected.

The only correct answer to this is ZFS, until BTRFS is finished.

How far behind is BTRFS? Redhat and SUSE have moved to it as their default, they must have a lot of confidence in it.

there's many features disabled under opensuse
also fedora/redhat hasn't made it the default, not even planned in fedora 24

>thinking it describes gamma ray side effects
You keep using that word user.

Pretty sure RHEL's default is XFS.

Pardon me for misspeaking.

Bitrot can include errant gamma ray effects, and it is also used as a term for code bases which are left unmaintained.

I'm not sure if you meant that as a joke, but really any big cloud storage company worth its salt should take the issue of data integrity very seriously. The odds of data failing over those types of systems are probably far lower than than measures most consumers can accomplish.

I have zeroed out all my storage. Any bit that is not a 0 is guaranteed to be flipped and can thus be corrected.

Print everything.

I scrub my bits daily with a soft bristle toothbrush and some shave foam. Keeps them nice and tidy.

Video and sound files are just memes anyway.

Better be acid-free paper, what if ink corruption turned words like digger to nigger. Implying I care.


Falling for the digital-meme.


Can't argue with that until someone comes up with more requirements.

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Sure, it's "portable", but it's not nearly as powerful or robust, and the storage is very limited.

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Decent for communication, but when it comes to long term storage, we all know what to go with.

Up you are game, brah.

When you only use a single digit, you have a unary system. The unary system can be used to express any integer, so all you really have to do is translate the binary file to unary and you're good to go.

I tried a black hole array, but the hawking radiation really gets you after a few billion years. What do you recommend?

If you want real long term storage, you just can't beat stasis fields. 1²:2²:3² monoliths are fine for pushing species towards the next step in their interstellar development, but how do you know they will be around five billion years from now?

all digital media is effectively encoded as a really big number. if you just count up high enough you'll eventually get to the number that represents whatever file you want to save. you think that's an accident?

By backing up to multiple locations you're in effect also preventing errors in the way you describe.

So the moral of the story is:

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I would like to have a file-system independent bitrot detection tool, but I'm not aware of anything of the sort.

I put my disk ina condom

does data on HDD's deteriorate?..... I thought that most HDD's keep data pristine for many years....

I somewhere read that silicone starts to fall apart after about 40 years. So in a decade (more or less) my nes cartridges might start dying.

Other than this, I have a copy of all my warez on 2 Harddrives from different manufacturers. I don't use CRC or anything, space is cheap nowadays. 5TB drives are 150$ now

Pocket dimension, fam.

Yes, read the Ars article.

The terminals are the most likely to die. No worries though, most NES games have been archived on the internet. Also for extreme hobbyists, you can buy programmable cartridges to load your own content.

One of many Reasons I left >>>Holla Forums 2months ago.

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"I left Holla Forums", he said, as he posted on Holla Forums.

kek at this emotional "in the arms of an angel" tier video youtube.com/watch?v=6qjUS746kUw

smh fam why even get out of bed every morning?

Nice joke.

Serious question here, why are people excited for BTRFS when ZFS already exists, why not just improve ZFS stability on platforms that it's not native to instead of making an entire new filesystem. When it comes to something like this I really do trust older systems more, ZFS has years of testing, documentation, tools, etc. that I can rely on or at worst fall back on. If BTRFS is supposed to be like ZFS but doesn't have any of this then why use it over the original?

Licenseing and Not Made Here syndrome is likely to be a big part of it.

It's not excitement. Btrfs supposed to be the successor of ext4, so it must be good on desktop too and Btrfs is much better option on Linux for RAID than ZFS.

I use Claude Shannon's theories from the 1940's to stay safe from bitrot

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_detection_and_correction

licensing incompatibilities, not made here syndrome AND ZFS's outrageously suboptimal resource usage.

What's ECC, what's perma-media

So sad, I came back to glimpse at idiotic snides about abstinence... anything more important to add to the thread's topic?

Yes, but I already did in a lot of other posts.

Good job then. Be sure to collect your golden star at the end of the thread.

Next thread we are going to discuss ECC schemes and algorithms. Care to contribute first for 3 golden stars!

So does every other solution out there offering error correction. Claude is the fucking man though, great guy. Under appreciated.

Error Correction can't correct everything all of the time. Also nothing is for ever.

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Are you serious? Data is just a series of binary digits. And any string of base N (where N > 1) digits encodes a number.

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Nothing is permanent.

I have a pair of identical drives in my server and btrfs raid doesn't work as rootfs without initramfs bloat so I just sync snapshots in a cronjob

that was my point