So ancient Samurai were just faggots who had no concept of guerrilla warfare because “muh honor”? How the fuck did they win anything?
So ancient Samurai were just faggots who had no concept of guerrilla warfare because “muh honor”...
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So ancient British were just faggots who had no concept of guerrilla warfare because “muh queen”? How the fuck did they win anything?
>>523534839They only ever fought other samurai
>>523534921They were warmonger bullies who got by by picking on more peaceful societies who naturally had no reason to create war machines, and labeling them as “savages” to justify their lack of honor.
>>523534839So ancient Romans were just faggots who had no concept of guerilla warfare because "muh emperor"? How the fuck did they win anything?
>>523534839So ancient Samurai were just faggots who had no concept of guerrilla warfare because “muh valhalla”? How the fuck did they win anything?
>>523534839OP it was 100x more fucked up than that. The more historians look into the history of samurai, the worse it becomes. Think of them as personal security to the uber wealthy. Back then, the richest people owned entire towns and hired samurai to police them. However, most samurai treated the poor like dirt and would constantly steal "tribute" from them. When they weren't hustling farmers, they were advancing on the daughters of the farmers. Eventually the whole system was so corrupt that wealthy nobles just paid some crooked samurai to officially claim their cousins and favorite servants as samurai, since there was no real official recognizance aside from a sword and apparel.
>people bought into the samurai honor meme when they were allowed to chimp out on random people when they were seething about being made irrelevant
>>523535108then they would forever fight againts the frenchs
I wish I were japanese. I would have spent my life perfecting my fighting skills with bros, shagging women and pretty boys because it's not gay and acceptable, dress in a good kimono and drink fine beverages.What a simple and great life for a man.
>Bushido code was only created as a last ditch effort to remain relevant as Meiji was incorporating new tech into society
>>523534839>How the fuck did they win anything?They didnt. Thats why they are gone now.
You DID honor your uncle, right?
>>523537157Fuck no, this was the closest thing I have to a new Tenchu
>>523534839Not true. Don't take Edo romanticism as historical fact. Good game but it's fantasy and fiction.
Honor is a nice luxury during peace but if it's stopping you from defeating your enemy, then in that moment, it's worthless
>>523536968And knights were violent thugs almost as often as they were loyal soldiers, but the important part is how they're seen now.
>>523536968anon...that's still gay
>>523534839Never existed. The guy who won the Sengoku Jidai was more slimey than the biggest Jew you know.
>>523534921>>523535246There's a difference between being the invader and being the defender retards. Why would an an invader use guerilla tactics when they have the larger army?
>>523537157...I have no honor.Unironically kino as fuck moment. That exchange heightened the writing of the whole game.
>>523534921first of all>ancientsecond, they were faggots. That's why they couldn't even hold on to murica.
>>523538001>Why would an an invader use guerilla tactics when they have the larger army?That is such stupid logic.>"Sir! the defending forces have made camp for the night up in the hills. Shall I gather some men to ambush them while they sleep?">"No no you will do no such thing. We have far more many men then they do. It wouldn't be fair. We will have a big 'ol fashioned battle on open ground in the morning! They deserve a chance too you know."
>>523537157>honorFuck that shit, nigger. I don't think I've had a single fight in the game where I didn't use some dirty trick, excluding duels where you're unable to do that. And even in duels I often resorted to parry-fishing like an absolute fucking coward that I am.
>>523534839The South lost against the North because they insisted on pitched battles.
>>523537157Hell no, I picked the canon kino choice of course
>>523534839>Thought the game had the choice between being a Samurai or Ghost, so I played the entire game being as honorable as possible>Nope you are locked into become the ghost no matter whatWhat a crock of shit. I was expecting something like the Infamous games.
>>523534839>Because they only fought eachother, so everyone was playing by the same rules.
>>523540000>game is called GHOST of TsushimaNo shit
>>523534839I mean sure if you only learn your history facts from fantasy video games.
>>523535475And yet people still defend cops
>>523535108>more peaceful societieslmao
>>523540489Where else would you learn it from? Only normalfags go to other sites and study things.
>>523539676Did you get your strategy from Game of Thrones or something? Do you seriously think whole armies just stumble around the countryside and just happen on the other sleeping?Furthermore, attacking a sleeping enemy army (wouldn't they have people on guard?) isn't a fucking guerilla tactic you absolute moron. Guerilla tactics is not synonymous with muh dishonorabu
>>523540441The game makes a big fucking deal about fighting with honor just force the player into it and worse, make the player obviously do terrible things for the plot is just bad writing. How did they fuck up so badly? They already did this concept 3 times already with 2 of the times being great.
>>523535108>They were warmonger bullies who got by by picking on more peaceful societiesThere has literally only been one recorded peaceful society in history and the Maori fucking ate them.
I honored my uncle and after watching both cutscenes I don’t regret it. I do understand the spare option is canon though. The video I watched was dubbed, do people actually play with that shit??? Disgusting
>>523541097Becuase they weren't doing it this time you extra strength retard.
>>523534839On an island which rarely got invaded.>>523534921Guns>>523535246>Fabian strategy
>>523541970Then what's the point of even having duels? Let me just save myself time and effort of a 1v1 and let me sticky bomb the shit out of them.
>>523539676>attack uphill at night>trying to sneak an entire fucking army on the enemy like they have nobody on watchAmazing fucking idea, dipshit.
>>523534839>How the fuck did they win anything?before the mongol invasions most of Japans experience with war was within the country against tribals or between Samurai Clans
>>523538001>Rome never had to defend itself against strong enemies
>>523542393Outside of the Punic wars (where they did go guerilla on hannibal post Cannae), they really didn't. Outside of maybe the Parthians.
>>523542558>who are the Boii and Senones>who is Pyrrhus>what is the migration period
>>523542351Because duels are cool, fun and take some skill? Not every gameplay point has to reflect the story 100% and even then the duels are supposed to show that Jin never truly abandons all of his samurai ways by becoming the ghost, he just what he feels is needed to defend his home.
>>523541852Wait spare is Canon? After all that I thought the only logical choice was to not spare.
>>523534839they learned by experiencethe whole ''Bushido'' is just BS considering the shogun even sent a Samurai clan to mongol ships that killed soldiers in their sleep during the first invasion
>>523542692>Literal whos>A fag that overextended>Not a singular threat but a generalization of the empire's inability to deal control its lands or deal with threats within its borders
>>523542558>Punic wars (where they did go guerilla on hannibal post Cannae),You what now?
>>523542738This, plus the Mythic Art duels have an actual explanation in the story (Jin learning the moves via combat)
>>523534921>still thinking that britain lost to guerrilla tactics and not because of france
>>523538001>Why would an an invader use guerilla tactics when they have the larger army?Ask North Vietnam
>>523543016>the guys who burnt down Rome are literally whos>Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Langobards and Huns aren't singular threatsyoutube.com
>>523537384>>523538228>>523539697>>523539838>>523542774>spare cucksyou realize by sparing him, you just let him keep opposing you in the name of shogun right? Honoring him is the logical choice because it seals you as The Ghost
>>523543821By sparing him you throw away the samurai code for good and become the ghost
>>523534839>So ancient Samurai were just faggots who had no concept of guerrilla warfare because “muh honor”? How the fuck did they win anything?Ninja?
>>523534921Brits never had any honor? It's a foreign concept to them, they have always been deceptive pirates. Honor in battle is an absolute meme, only losers follow rules into battle.
>>523543506Viet Cong were South Vietnamese that supported the North.
Fuck it, I'm switching it down to normal difficulty. Dying at least once in literally every combat encounter I get into isn't fun.
>>523543821>you just let him keep opposing you in the name of shogun right?Yes, I have no problem with that
>>523544037>By sparing him you throw away the samurai code for good and become the ghostkilling him is the only his last duty as the Samurai. Any intimate ties to the Samurai like Lord Shimura is completely gone after that. Besides by letting him live, The Shogun will use Lord Shimura's knowledge of Jin to learn his weakness and kill him.
>>523544345But you hinder yourself by letting Shimura lives. Killing him is the logical choice since Shogun can learn nothing from Jin since the closest person to him is dead.
>>523544261Just switch it up again when the game becomes incredible easy
>>523537994It was always a battle between slimey pieces of shit though. Mitsunari was a sociopathic banker by nature and Ieyasu used every trick in the trade to secure victory in the scummiest ways.
>>523544238The PLAVN fought a guerilla war alongside the VC, which was effectively eliminated in early '68, you fucking historylet. Don't (You) me again.
>>523544370Jin has no weakness anymore
>>523544496I would rather be hindered by Shimura's forces than be hindered by killing the only family I have left.Choosing Spare was the easiest choice I've made in vidya.
>>523544536Sure. I've only done a couple of missions so far but last fight I got into I died in like seven seconds. I like the idea of dangerous sword duels, but everyone jumps in and kills me instantly.
>>523544670But Shimura knew>>523544706And what if the Shogun threatened to kill Shimura unless the Ghost surrender himself?
>>523544896>And what if the Shogun threatened to kill Shimura unless the Ghost surrender himself?Jin would find a way to circumvent that.If you're going into headcanon territory then there's nothing more to be said. Neither of us knows what the fuck happens after the epilogue.
>>523544754Yeah it’s pretty tough in the beginning, but after awhile it becomes extremely easy when you are upgraded
>>523545045>Jin would find a way to circumvent that.See? It would complicate things. Shimura need to die so Ghost can easily free reign.>If you're going into headcanon territory then there's nothing more to be said. Neither of us knows what the fuck happens after the epilogue.I'm only talking about the logical outcome if you let Shimura live.
>>523545404>See? It would complicate things.I never said it wouldn't. I said I didn't mind the complications if it meant sparing the only family I have left.>I'm only talking about the logical outcome if you let Shimura live.There is an infinite amount of logical outcomes following the Spare ending. Perhaps Shimura is executed outright, perhaps he kills himself to avoid his clan being erased. Perhaps the Shogun recognizes how much Shimura is worth to Jin and uses him as a bargaining chip or a hostage. Perhaps Shimura gets his rank stripped, his clan disbanded and exiled.Perhaps Jin works out a secret deal with the Shogun, for example performing an assassination of a political rival in exchange for Shimura's safety.Spare ending, in my opinion, not only makes more sense from the perspective of Jin (remember he pleaded with Shimura to let him go and stop fighting all the way through the final fight) but also provides more possible plot material for the sequel (if it ever comes out).
>>523543030When hannibal absolutely shitstomped rome in the battle of lake trasimene, fabius, the consul at the time, realized the carthaginians couldn't take rome without the help of italic tribes, mainly because the carthaginians and their spanish mercs were glorified pirates with zero siege equipment. The only way hannibal could win over the italic tribes is to keep winning. So fabius went against roman tradition and waged guerilla warfare and scorched earth, designed to sap the strength of the invading army. It worked but romans didn't like it because it went against literally everything rome stood for. They booted fabius, then got shitstomped at cannae. Then they listened to fabius again and started to win again.
>>523534839>>523534921>>523534934no, they intimidated/brutalized and when necessary efficiently put down uppity serfs, as part of managing the collection of the taxes for their Lord.
>>523541203what about pre-indo europeans?
>>523544236Wrong, there was honor in battle even until WWII, look sea and air warfare and how they treated each other. Hell, even when some british pirate lost against some guy in the Canary Islands, you should see how dearly the Spanish treated the Brit in their private mail, like they were homosexuals or something
>>523547268Enough skeletons with pre PIE battle wounds to say they weren't peaceful either. Humans didn't get to where they are by being peaceful. We got here by being territorial highly adaptive and aggressive apex predators.
>>523545283Fuck me, I'm really bad at this. I'm at the inn you get to with the first Adachi mission, even on medium difficulty there's just too much to concentrate on. I'll be blocking one guy and just going to attack him and two spear men rush up and I can't dodge their attacks. I've died like four times now.
>>523545972>>Spare ending, in my opinion, not only makes more sense from the perspective of Jin (remember he pleaded with Shimura to let him go and stop fighting all the way through the final fight) but also provides more possible plot material for the sequel (if it ever comes out).Sure the spare ending provide more material for the sequel/DLC. But for me, honor ending is fitting as a formality to do his last duty as Samurai and free himself from any ties of the closest person who keep endorse that culture onto him.
“Honor” typically has utilitarian benefits. The classic example of executing everyone who surrenders makes it so literally no one wants to surrender to you and will
>>523548717For me, it seemed more fitting to abandon even that last duty to Shimura.Funny, I was discussing the game with a friend the other day and we agreed that the ending choice was a complete no-brainer, only to discover we actually chose different ones.One thing I don't really understand is why the devs didn't implement some sort of a Honor/Ghost meter. I haven't played any InFamous games but from what I heard they had exactly that, right? Seems strange it's missing in Ghost of Tsushima, where a mechanic like that would perfectly fit the game.
>>523548175I'm turning it to easy.
>>523549356>One thing I don't really understand is why the devs didn't implement some sort of a Honor/Ghost meterThey were trying to make this a dignified arthouse game, and morality meters are hoaky as fuck.
>>523534839No. The game is heavily romanticized. The sort of thing Jin does would be considered 'dirty work', but plenty of people who were effectively of Samurai rank did it. It just wasn't considered glamorous or something to be proud of. You can interpret Lord Shimura as being angry at Jin for acting like a commoner, and also remember that they live on a pretty remote part of Japan. Shimura is basically a LARPer who hasn't had to fight anyone but bandits and rebels for a long time. This doesn't mean there weren't rules of engagement, or things you could do that would disgrace your reputation, but for most of history Samurai didn't see anything wrong with ambushes, surprise attacks, assassination, and sneaking around in the dark when it got you results. During the period the game takes place in there's a narrative that Samurai engaged in semi-ritual combat, challenging each other to one-on-one duals, but that's actually debated these days and might be a romantic invention from a later time period. It's often said that the Samurai tried to challenge the Mongols to a dual when they landed, but it's more likely that they sent out a negotiation party and the Mongols fired on them because they weren't interested in anything but unconditional surrender.
>>523534839Ghost was just a weeab's idea of what medieval Japan looked like. in truth the Samurai were power tripping jerks, Samurai honour like knightly chivalry was just a meme.
>>523549356>One thing I don't really understand is why the devs didn't implement some sort of a Honor/Ghost meter. I haven't played any InFamous games but from what I heard they had exactly that, right?Because Sucker Punch has to work twice on Samurai path. The point of Jin's journey is to see the drawbacks of Samurai Code and have to do "dishonor" shit to reach victory with minimal bloodbath from their side, as it is proven that Honor shit will cost more lives to sacrifice.
>>523549702How come dudes taking pictures with their weapons was cool in black and white, but looks ridiculous in color?
>>523549702A good post? On Holla Forums? Unbelievable.
>>523535672If you're referencing the right to kill peasants, it was far more complicated than that. The right literally translates as "to Strike Down" commoners, rather than murder them. You only got one shot, you could not administer a coup-de-grace, you were supposed to ask for an accept an apology instead, you needed a witness, and you had to notify the authorities immediately after striking a peasant and spend a month in contrition, if you were found innocent. In reality, it was very rarely invoked. Most of the reports we have of it basically involve drunken merchants getting into street brawls with Samurai and getting killed in self defense, something that would be seen as justified in most modern societies.Cross-Roads killers did exist, but they were completely illegal and considered psychopaths by everyone else.
>>523537994dam that boi thicc af
>>523549702>The game is heavily romanticizedI think that's the point of this game, that Samurai Code thing is a meme.
>>523534839Why didn’t they just use guns? Like a gunkatana.
>>523550492Japs didn't have gunpowder in the 1200's.
>>523549673In my opinion morality meter would be a far better option than pulling the poison card. That whole plot seemed like the writers desperately trying to find a way for Jin to have a fall from grace.
>>523549961Nah it can still be cool
>>523550793That dude looks like a guy you'd see at a truck stop, but with a gun. He even has the dead-inside look.
>>523551004a man devoid of hope, barely holding on with cigarettes and alcohol after being forced to take up arms is cool
I'm still baffled that no one called Jin a shinobi or ninja. Are ninjas even exist back then?
>>523534839It's an interactive "Akira Kurosawa"-ish movie.>When the Mongols first arrive at Tsushima at Komada Beach, an army of Samurai, gather in order to repel them to protect their home.>They hold the line and start shooting arrows upon them.This is what the 80 samurai in the actual 1274 invasion of Tsushima did under Sou Sukekuni's command, and they managed to hold a landing force of around 8,000 Mongols at Komoda Beach for an entire day before being overrun.
>>523534839Only people who adhere to the code are granted the privilege.Certainly not outsiders that invade your territory.
>>523551695Not until years later. Maybe another hundred years or so apparently. He might as well be the first.
>>523551695Ninja/Shinobi is kind of a complex topic. Spies and Assassins have existed in pretty much every civilization from the start, but the people we tend to think of as Ninja, that is, specialized infiltration experts, really show up big time in the Sengoku era, several hundred years after the Mongol invasion. The formal concept of having a specialist or group of specialists to do what Jin does wouldn't have been all that common at the the time the game is set, and even in the period where 'real' Ninja were common, usually they were basically referred to as spies, thieves, ruffians, etc. Jin using 'thief skills' and calling Yuna a thief and being called a theif himself rather than a ninja is arguably one of the more accurate parts of the game.
>>523549356I’m ok with it, not every open world game needs a morality system
>>523554772I'm okay with that as well, GoT is probably my GOTY. It would be a nice touch, though. Not really asking for much, a slightly changed Act III would be enough.
>>523551407>forced to take up armsGun nuts are pathetic.
>>523555313>oh no don't use firearms, they're too scary for people to ownDo you think faggots like you existed in every age? Do you think there were peasants that went on and on about how all they really needed was a how and that swords should only be issued to His Lordship?
>>523554381After playing nioh and spending a long time at the glossary (which is somewhat accurate, if you remove all of the mystical bits) I find the concept of "infiltration groups" like Iga and other ninja "clans" (if you can call them that) to be a bit ridiculous. I mean, why would you let something so dangerous exist? Moreover, if they were spies, woudn't it be detrimental for them to have a whole school for that? According to the game, Nobunaga (I think, might've been someone else) pretty much put a stop to that shit by murdering the whole lot of them while on the path to unify japan.
>>523555710Didn't read. Cope
>>523541203>There has literally only been one recorded peaceful society in historyshame
>>523537157I chose the canon choice and spared him
>>523543821>Honoring him is the logical choice because it seals you as The Ghost
>>523534839>12th century>AncientAre you a chink? We in the West consider the Ancient times to be pre-Christian Europe so the Romans
>>523555889Maybe ninja act more like information broker-mercenary. Pay good and they will get crucial info of your adversary that you want.
>>523543821Jin was sealed as the ghost the moment his Uncle disowned him when he poisoned the Mongol dogs
Japan had no real experience with warfare before the 19th century.
>>523556769When nip learn the real warfare, they became so dangerous that they have to be nuked twice
>>523556153>canonSource of this?
>>523555889Iga and Koga were remote parts of Japan with heavy wilderness and until Nobu went on his spree they were left alone since they weren't power players themselves but only threw in their lot behind established lords here and there. Nobu also was forced to deal with them after his son tried first in a quest for glory and got absolutely curb stomped and humiliated by the iga families.The iga and koga family practices could best be compared to the pirate nations and republics that have appeared now and again. They are left alone until they can't be left alone.
>>523534839there is a difference between bored nobles who think morals mean anything in war, and those who have actually fought in war, japan has both
>>523541203>Trusting british records to describe the people they conquered>"British history being bias? Nah impossible"user, history is all fanfiction.
>>523550692Not him but an arbitrary point system for morality is fucked stupid honestly. It would hinder your choice. I try fighting without tricks but when I have my ass crawling with spears throwing a kunai resolves everything. It would really hinder the players initiative to play the way they want. Nothing is more obnoxious and toxic ina game having a little fucking grading system in the middle of a fight. It's why I can't stand hitman because the game says "fuck you" every time you kill somebody.
>>523534839Because freak tsunami's killed the invasions.
>>523534839By being good fighters and having almost exclusive access to the very best equipment.