So for you Warcraft fans, what's the one moment in the lore that made you lose faith the most?

WoW

>>523382512yeah it was the same with the old gods. They threw them away for what is basically Fel magic but edgier

Cataclysm solidifying Thrall as Green Jesus wasn't the worst, but it cascaded from there. Pandaria's "lol corruption" annoyed me but we finally got Pandas. WoD and Legion really did it, cashing in on nostalgia and poorly. I liked Illidan but after all the shit in BC, I'm supposed to accept this BS retcon? nah

>>523380914>be me in 2009>playan wrath, kickin ass, takin names>loving all the lore>didnt play tfz, but read up on it because i wanted MOAR>Arthas: Rise of the Lich King comes out>givemetehlorz.png>buy the book>read that shit>its just WarCraft III: Reign of Chaos: The Frozen Throne: The Novelization>mfw

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>>523384549Then BfA? LOL that one really took it away. The only thing that was keeping me in it was the possiblity of new undead and dragonman, which was scrapped.

>>523380034Mostly when they made Draenei a playable race of holy space gypsies that fly around in crystal spaceships.It became a rule that any and all draenei shamans I saw were to be killed and camped until they logged out.Also making nelves an alliance race was pretty faggy. Just wanted the human-dwarf-elf trio. You can tell they struggled filling in the alliance when they had to add gnomes and nelves lmao.

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>>523384728Thats some dedicated hate

>>523384728They were rumored to be considering Goblins for the Alliance before the game's release because the humans just paid them off. I honestly think it would have been an interesting move to make the factions a bit more distinct, with Goblins on Alliance and Night Elves on the Horde side

>Nelves get turned into some Alliance meme race instead of being powerful noble savages >no ogres or goblins by the time TBC launched>Forsaken are with the Horde despite being colossal pieces of shit

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Orcs being "redeemed" just to fill up space for playable races in WoW, and then WoD coming out and showing that even without demons Draenor was already a shithole of warmongering cunts.

>>523380034by wotlk I completely gave up>there must always be a meme king

Probably what they did to/with the Litch King in WotLK. Plenty of problems before that, but that was the single biggest moment I knew the good times were gone for good.

>>523385434The fact that Ogres STILL aren't fucking playable just pisses me off

>>523385929>There's too few high elves for them to be playable>Have void elves thoughThat without even getting into mechagnome and Vulpera territory.

I quit a week Into WoD

>>523380186>>523380276Um, hello, Based Department?

>>523385929why do people want to play NPC race? Ogres dont even have females. I want to play as a nerubian myself but I understand its not feasible

>>523380034WoW lore has been fucked from its beginning. Night elves shouldn't be in the Alliance, Undead shouldn't be part of the Horde. And don't even get me started about the other fucking races that were added later.

>>523386280>Ogres dont even have females. I'm about to "acktually" the shit out of you but they do in fact have female Ogres. The explanation as to why we don't see them in game is that there's an island called "Ogrezonia" where all the female ogres live.

>>523386280Blizzard is too damn lazy to make females. Ogre girls exist. >I want to play as a nerubian myself but I understand its not feasibleSure it is stop making excuses for them.

>>523386280>Ogres dont even have femalesDidn't they explain this away in TBC by implying they rape Orcs?

>>523386727Isn't the cross of an ogre and an orc a Mok'Nathal?

>>523386280>>523386727I think in one of the novels there's an ogre female, but frankly I'm rusty on WoW lore. As for ogre/orcs, those make Mag'har like Rexxar

>>523386686>Ogre girls existyeah they are call fem kultirans

>>523386837Or, Mok'Nathal, not Mag'har. My bad.

>>523386847>Male Kul'Tirans are Big McHuge kind of dudes>Female Kul'Tirans are just tall, fat women

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>>523386847>yeah they are call fem kultiransOk that got me.

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>>523386436>Tfw no Ogrezonian waifu

>>523386847I'm not gonna lie, I think that me walking in on some erp kinda awakened something within me>Stumble across a kul tiran female femdomming a human paladin on an rp server>She goes into detail about how she's using her weight to stop his escape attempts, slowly undresses the guy as he struggles>She basically rapes the guy as she smothers the guy with her titsI mean I'm not proud of it but I fapped multiple times as I stood nearby, stealthed

>>523386847

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>>523387350The Femtirans aren't even guilty pleasure slampigs.

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>>523386847GIRL OH NO YOU DIDN'T

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>>523384728>>523385167>>523385434>>523386081High elves should have been the 4th alliance race, nelves should have been neutral or horde. Blood elves should have been an enemy faction like Kael's loyalists in outlands.Horde not getting ogres is retarded but I suppose that niche is somewhat filled by tauren.

When the story started revolving entirely around famous people, who behaved like dicks. Their characters were never any good, now they want the story to follow their actions only? Vanilla just had you kill shit.

>>523387416Look I said I'm not proud of it, what do you want from me

>>523387597 I just wanted to make conversation because I'm proud of fapping to one either

>>523387652That's completely understandable, I'm glad we had this talk and good luck yo you in the future

>>523384728>>523380575Ya I'm with these guys on the space shit. I know other worlds were already cannon but the space ships and goats were underwhelming.I still enjoyed it for the most part until the end of Cataclysm where I quit until now.

>>523387562Good point. The only real characters in vanilla ended up being killed as raid bosses, which was fucking awesome.

>>523387562Vanilla wow> Azeroth brought to life, and you can explore it and immerse yourself in the world of the beloved rts games. Chill in a burrow, swim in a moonwell. Be an orc or a dwarf or a night elf or troll.Everything after> Look at our poorly written and dickhead characters! You want to be the hero of the world, right? Along with everyone else, right? Drama! Politics!

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>>523388031TBC didn't kill my interest in the WoW lore, but it did admittedly dull it. I'm pretty sure that the actual lore of why the Draenei are on Azeroth now is because the Blood Elves literally shot their space ship out of the sky with a magic laser.

>>523388345If I have to hear someone calling me "Champion" one more fucking time I swear to god I'm gonna lose itAll I've ever done is pick herbs and solo old raids

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>>523388031what got my goat was how the OG draenei were either retconned into the 'broken' in between or thrown in hostile swamp campsI just with they kept draenei and 'good eredar' as 2 separate species. keep Akama and gang as a band of toothy mutants that hate orcs and have velen and his gang be demons that betrayed sarg for the naaru. that'll help Kil'jaden's hatred go beyond>wtf bro why don't you want to destroy planets forever with us?

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>>523388345Theres really no dissonance between what the "lore" tries to sell you and what the in-game activities try to sell you. In lore a band of heroes helped pluck the scales of a dragon who flew over the world and caused entire global disasters, then they fought him and helped beat him. Then the game has us fighting beer elementals for pandas. Then we time travel and fight entire legions of demons. Then we go to a faction war when both sides are heavily crippled.

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>>523388345honestly one of the main reasons I like ff14 is that it takes the plot and characters seriously, as well as your own character in lore seriously.I miss that about WoW, being the Champion of the Horde/Alliance by the end of Vanilla

>>523380034When they pulled Gnomes out of their asses for the game. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Dwarves being the technology dudes of the Alliance.

>>523388358> the Blood Elves literally shot their space ship out of the sky with a magic laser.I fucking HATE blizzard writers.

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>>523388759To be absolutely fair, they did exist in Warcraft 2. I mean, the gyrocopters were gnomish at least. They sorta retconned them out of Warcraft 3, but yeah I'll admit that they could have probably done better than gnomes

>>523388724>>523388724I'm honestly considering playing the FF14 demo just because people say that the story is pretty cool

>>523388759>after 17 years the Gnomes still haven't retaken their city despite having thousands of allies

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>>523389078>The Trolls took back their stupid islands>The Gnomes wouldn't do the same even though the place was a level 30 dungeon

>>523389064just be warned that the vanilla game of ARR is a bit of a slog, but you get Heavensward for free, which is when a lot of the story of ARR, the threads established early on, come to fruition.

>>523388213The raids on SW were fucking great and the honor gain was pretty pitiful compared to BGs, yet people still did it, because it was FUN. Something the Blizzard of today clearly doesn't care about the fucking pussies.

>>523380034Lore being mostly rewritten for Warcraft 3.Lore being rewritten again for Burning Crusade a few years alter.I couldn't tell you much after that, probably just kept chugging along rewriting everything every few years and wondering why everyone stopped caring about their story.

>>523388759Technically, gnomes were established as existing in WC2. I still think they were a fucking garbage addition of a playable race.> mfw gnomes could be warriors but belves couldn't

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>>523385760The only reason this pissed me off so much is because we had JUST killed all of the greatest threats of the Scourge, and we had a literal army outside waiting to stop any random undead. Why not just kill them all and be done with this

>>523389414By the changes in WC3, do you mean the orcs becoming more sympathetic? If so then I can understand why you feel that way (I got drawn into the series because of WC1+2 and how brutal the orcs were) but I think it was ultimately a positive change to keep them from being too stagnant as a race

>>523389492> Why not just kill them all and be done with thisPerpetual use of them and no permance to their defeat. It's a lazy scapegoat to not really finalize much about the world.

>>523389492Because they were saving the supposedly dead Bolvar for sequel bait, as well as the entire army of undead he has his command. Thats really the only reason.

>>523389776Watching Sylvanas beat him was the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

>>523389701It's rather sad they can't think of ways to shove in their new OC idea without rewriting the entire universe, and that they've done it since Warcraft 3.Like, we teach kids writing their first stories that having the rewrite the entire timeline and erase decades on a whim is a sign you need to work on your idea more.

>>523389906But she's a strong independent warchief who don't need no man

>>523389906Watching Sylvanas exist past WOTLK is pretty dumb in itself.

>>523389941I can respect your point of view, I'd have loved to see a world where the orcs were just totally unsympathetic going into WoW. Would have certainly stuck closer to the Warhammer roots, but I guess in the end we're still stuck with what we have. I suppose this is just the consequence of having multiple writers for a series over a long span of time.

>>523389701>>523389941I'm a WC3 baby myself. I know the noble shaman shit was created for WC3, but was there much in the lore prior to this that was done away with to accommodate it? They always had them entering through the dark portal, but was it out of the question that they were ever anything other than demon worshipping evil? I guess it struck me as an expansion on the lore and less of a retcon of it but I had very little exposure to wacraft pre Reign of Chaos.

>>523389974> sylvanas> warchief

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>>523380034Kalimdor existing.

>>523390368I guess for me, since I as kind of invested since the start of Warcraft, I always figured that the orcs maybe didn't always worship demons. In the end the WC3 stuff didn't really come across as too jarring, so I can agree with you there.

>ok so the entire planet is alive>remember the Titans well they're also planets and they're alive too >the entire planet's menstrual blood is what created magic and life >ok but Sargeras is also afraid of these super gods called Void Lords

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>>523390368They erased over a decade of the timeline going from wc2 to 3 when they made them slaves to the new big bad as well.

>>523390368Orcs spent years interacting and even interbreeding with humans before the first war kicked off.

>>523390854>They erased over a decade of the timeline going from wc2 to 3 when they made them slaves to the new big bad as well.What are you referring to? During this time the orcs were in internement camps and into hiding, weren't they? With Ner'zhul on the way to become Lich King.

>>523390854Could you elaborate, by chance? I've read a lot of stuff over the years but anything that provides "lore" tends to skip over the retcons.

>>523391096I meant this.>>523391005The entire first 2 games were rewritten to make way for the new narrative, and to make way for the new antagonist.Then a few years later they had to rewrite the origins of the bad guys they just created because they forgot space goats were always demons over a few years somehow.

>>523391005They were demon worshipping necromancers at that time though, right? I always understood that they were demon servants that invaded through the dark portal and were basically aggressive cunts from the get go.

>>523391468They weren't demon worshippers per se, Kil'Jaeden convinced the orcs to drink demon blood and pledge service to the Burning Legion in disguise, passing it as their ancestors talking to them, first to massacre the Draenei and then to invade Azeroth. Demon Blood made the already aggressive chimps total fucking barbarians with only some of the higher-ups knowing they were dabbling with demonic powers.

>When did you lose faithWhen they did Rexarr dirty, playing Rexxar in wc3 claiming kalimdor was so cool, I started in WoW and I went back to WC3 to learn the lore. I sat through retcon over retcon, mostly ignored it in the community I was in. Then one day they said oh by the way, that cool thing you did, that didn't happen, Rexxar didn't do any of that shit. That was where I realized they didn't give a shit anymore. Took longer than most, but the truth is in the meme, Tell them that the Lich King is dead, and Warcraft died with him.

War of the Thorns is when I really gave up.

>>523380034It was flagging all throughout WotLK.>Muradin is alive.>Nothrend is like 40% scourge at most, green hills and lush forests everywhere, no blight, no major scourge threats in the open >Varimathras' betrayal makes zero fucking sense and was a bad joke after all that build-up, accomplished sweet fuck all and just got him killed for no reason>Horde and Alliance go to war over the most retarded shit while they're also at war with the scourge which only becomes much stronger off of this, ends up completely destroying the narrative that the scourge is actually really threatening.>Dalaran accommodates the horde, undead being specifically ridiculous with them being behind the Horde butchering their associates throughout vanilla>Grand tournament was some of the dumbest shit they could have done to an already trivialized threatAnd then, after all that shit, the final straw was "there must always be a Lich King" I'm not even going to talk about why that's so fucking retarded. I was done. I AM done. Fuck this shit.

>>523380034>Draenor is free!

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>>523392226I can only imagine that after he shouted that, Garrosh was sweating, desperately hoping that nobody pointed out he fucking caused everything

>>523388345I thought BC was okay, I think the Kael Thas betrayal needed more explanation like Kil'Jaedens agents gave kael and his blood elves demonic/mana crystals thus buying their loyalty at a price that Illidan couldnt prevent. Basically Kael becomes an unwilling or begrudging servant to KJ because the mana addiction was killing his people and Illidan couldnt deliver on his promise or give enough. This explanation or something like it is needed considering the burning legion is the reason behind the destruction of Quel Thalas and KT isnt stupid to not know this.I think in general Illidan and Vashj should not have been villains but perhaps more morally grey characters but blizzard got into the idea of bringing back known WC3 characters to use as raid bosses.I think it would have been interesting if Illidans faction was more of a morally grey one and players should have had an option to side with them or fight against them I mean the entire expansion is kinda half baked and made worse by the retconning in legion. Overall I think TBC was an enjoyable and highly creative expansion i just wish the main storyline was more reasonable and cohesive because its sort of weird to make Illidan the big bad and then Kiljaeden is the last boss.Dont get me wrong I liked the expac and it had some neat ideas and fights but I think thematically its a bit off in the sense i think the orcs storyline and the storyline in Achinduin were sort of just cut off as well as the Netherprinces or whatever those energy mummies were called. Theres so much interesting stuff going on but then you get Gruul which is a nothing raid then you get Serpent Shrine Cavern that shows what Illidan is kinda up to in a captain planet way and then you got KT in tempest keep showing off his dealings with the legion.Then Black Temple is just some weird shit and then leading back to Sunwell which ties to Kaels and the legion storyline. It feels like theres no cohesiveness.

>>523391468The Orcish Warlocks were actually the ones that discovered Azeroth while opening portals and searching for demons to control and study.Then they never actually found them natively on the mortal planes until discovering the Tomb in WC2 on Azeroth.The only demons in the first game were the ones Orcish Warlocks learned to summon to them and force control of.

>>523384607They butchered Arthas in that book. Him and that stupid fucking horse.