What exactly is the issue people have with his death?

>>514419476

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We want to play with Joel. Joel was what made TLOU great. Deal with it.

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>>514418310seemed kind've rushed like it couldve had more impact if we got to journey with him a little more

>>514419740well you played the whole first game with joel........

>main character gets killed by unlikeable character>forced to play as unlikeable character hunting down other main character>don't even kill her in the endwhole game is a waste of time senpai

Joel has never been the main character of the series. It has always been Ellie. Similar to the walking dead comic. Rick was never the main character, It was always Carl.

>>514418951>>514419605This is his first "solo". He always had someone to keep him in check before this.

>>514419819Sorry, shouldn't say main character.Should say "never been about".

>>514418310People wanted a RDR2 rip off ending, saying goodbye for an hour etc.Gay.

>>514418310I don't mind him dying. But the game got a lot more boring knowing he is dead.

>>514419801yea and its been 7 years since ive played the first game. It was cool to see him again but him dying happens so quick it just didn't have that much emotional impact. its like he was just thrown into the trash

>>514419708This.>playing part 2>Ellie and her crew feel empty>don't give a shit about Jesse or Dina>Tommy is kinda based though (surprise hes in the first one)>play the flashbacks>immediately feels narrative better and like an actual Last of Us game

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>>514419875The first one he is credited as the only writer.The second one has 2 writer credits. Neil and Halley Gross.

>>514418310Playing as the tranny that just killed a character you like isn't funAlso, all the blatant fucking lies during marketing. Quite literally the entire marketing of this game was based on falsehoods.

>>514418310His death was fucking stupid and unfit for his character but most of people don't like it because MUH DADDY JOEL.

>>514420235How is it unfit for his character? He really had no control over the situation.

>>514419819>>514419894But we didnt get it and made him our favourite (anti)hero. Cuckmann was mad about this and made an entire second game to explain to us (via Ellie) how we should have feel about the first TLOU. Instead of embrace the fanbase and give us something more enjoyable (maybe coping about his failure at deliver the original message in the first TLOU)...just imagine. If this is not a sign he deserved to be gassed i dont know what it is.

>>514420061supposed to be more shocking and infuriating.Also leaks did effect it because everyone saw it coming..

Look OP. Most of the people complaining about the game on this board didn't even play the first one, and never cared about the second one.

>>514420235>His death was fucking stupidHow so?only thing unusual was they didn't kill ellie and tommy.

>>514420367it was pretty obvious that joel would die in the sequel since 2013 like it was bound to happen but the way they did it was garbage

>>514420513its was brutal and quick.what was garbage about it?not everyone gets a hero ending.

>>514420274>comes out of nowhere to total strangers to help out just because>gets locked in with 6 gorillion strangers in one room>hehe, me joel>lmao joel? guy who killed my daddy was joel too! it has to be you ecksdee

>>514418310I don't give a shit. The series is dead to me since it's not going to be a source of prime sfm porn. I'm just here to watch the fire burn.

>>514418310>Abby happens to be at Jackson at the time Joel and Tommy are out on patrol>Abby decided to go it alone after getting tired of waiting>a horde of infected basically Shepard her towards Joel>they aren't the least bit suspicious of her and head into the clutches of her groupThe plot is full of these hilarious contrivances

>>514418310Gamers largely share an inability to examine their expectations or even recognize that they have them in the first place.

>>514418310Yes. Do you want to play Batman game without Batman? That is what Last of Us 2 is.

>>514420801See the problem with that is Tommy had already offered up Joel's name when he introduced himself and Joel to Abby.Tommy literally tells Abby "I'm Tommy, and that's Joel" before they even get to Abby's group. Joel didn't initiate it, Tommy did.

>>514418310Reminder that jannies will delete your thread if you post this.

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>>514420196The producers had the final say and looked over the script dunce.

>>514418310I think it kind of makes a moral equivalence that isn't really justified. Joel killed the doctor and the other fireflies to save someone, he was motivated simply by love. If they would have let him he would have walked to her room and taken her away without hurting a fly. Abby on the other hand kills a guy who's just saved her life just to settle a blood feud. I don't think you can expect Joel to let Ellie die but I do think you can expect someone to swallow their want for revenge.

>>514419819>Joel has never been the main character of the series.Maybe not for you Dr. Cuckmann. But for everyone who played whole game as Joel, he was main character.

>>514420945They explain that Eugene went out on patrols with Dina. Eugene used to be a firefly. He kept in contact with other fireflies. This is how Abby found them. It's not the games fault you have selective memory and/or a short attention span. Both sides of this interaction explain as much in unskipable dialogue sequences during exploration. The adults are talking. Fuck off.

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>>514418310well you've got to have an iq above room temperature to understand why its terrible

>>514419548>WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DONT LIKE HOW THEY MADE A MORALLY GREY CHOICE INTO AN EVIL ABOMINATION MAN BEFORE BASHING HIS SKULL IN??!!!!If you really think the point of TLOU2's story is "joel bad" then i have to question your basic storytelling comprehension skills.

>>514420801>>514420945joel meeting and saving abby was just a chance encounter.they were all surrounded by zombies and had nowhere to go so they went with abby also considering the fact it takes years after the whole zombie infection thing have changed a bit joel doesn't see every single person as untrustworthy,there are small groups of societies.Joel just saved abby's life and he didn't really saw it coming that she was trying to kill him.

>>514421252In a gameplay sense, sure. Story wise? Not really.

>>514421010it called last of us not adventures of joel.

>>514421429Anon, you may well have an IQ that exceeds room temperature. But considering you aren't really saying anything with your post and you are on Holla Forums there's an excellent chance you know precisely jack shit about storytelling and are hoping to hide behind screeching consensus to hide this. Try thinking for yourself.

>>514421507Ellie's character arc isn't really as well defined, they add to it later but in the base game Joel is the only one that has a beginning, middle, and end.

>>514421291.The problem isn't that they knew Joel was in Jackson, but the coincidence that he was out on patrol when they found himOwen and Abby were talking about how the hell they were going to find Joel in Jackson when they were looking at the town meaning they had no idea where he was at that timeYou need to learn some reading comprehension, shill.

>>514418310I don't know. everyone predicted this in 2016 when the first trailer came out and people were hyped for it. his actual death and ellie's revenge quest are exactly what I expected. the game only starts to take a turn when you're forced to play as abby

>>514421216Joel made a selfish choice and condemned humanity in the process. He also killed her dad (which is kind of what Abby does to Ellie). The whole point of the game is that revenge is stupid and pointless but Abby definitely is just as justified as Ellie for wanting revenge.

>>514421667I think this is where videogames kind of...become distant from other mediums. People always see the character you're playing as the main character. For some reason they can't see past it.

>>514421763Not him but you think Coincidence doesn't occur?

>>514418310The anger’s been muddled by people just mad that Joel died, but lots of people are missing the point that the circumstances for his death is just bad writing

>>514421998It's really not. Problem is people take only what they see on 4chan, and don't get the context and literal dialogue that explains why these things happened the way they did.

>>514421998>circumstances for his death is just bad writingHow so?

>>514421440They whitewashed all of the greyness of the vaccine shit, essentially making Joel's choice ONLY bad.

>>514421667God of War is also not called Adventures of Kratos.>>514421507I played it. Why are tying this bullshit on me. You start with Joel when he lost his daughter. 20 years later he is paid to escort Ellie and become her protector. It is all about that bond between him and girl in cruel world. Gameplay is not interesting. Setting is not interesting. That foster father theme is interesting. Take that away and you have boring game.

>it's so out of character for Joel to just say his name to strangers!>he would never do that!

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>>514418310Its not him dying like an idiot that people are mad about. It's that nothing ever happens after it. It's like Ned Stark dying like an idiot then Robb has to take arms against the king only to go back to Winterfell empty handed and looking like a loser.

>>514421763>shillI cant even begin to articulate how much of a brainlet you are. For starters, during that same conversation you reference they are discussing HOW they will find Joel. Abby suggests that they will capture a patrol and interrogate them. Owen was was already observing the town and they are trained soldiers who were working closely with Isaac. They had a base they were working out of and if they didnt get lucky they would figure something else out. The problem this game has above all others is that it trusts it's audience to INFER such conclusions based on the information it provides. Unfortunately people, such as yourself, find it too much work so you assume the problem is with the writing instead of your own lack of experience or observation.

>>514422165Did you really expect Joel to get off scot-free from what he did? To continue lying to Ellie for the rest of their lives? Is this what you retards consider "good writing"?Joel's choice was not right or wrong. He did what he did for love and even Ellie understood that at the end, even if she couldn't fully forgive them. For everyone else what he did was a horrible thing that ruined humanity's chances of ever going back to normal.If you think that 2's choice to make Joel face the consequences of his actions translates to "joel bad, abby good" then you're a fucking retard that never understood the first game's ending in the first place. But then again, you probably didn't even play 2 to begin with.

>>514422262Joel is not exactly who everything is centered around.

it doesn't matter alt right shitbags can cry all they want didnt stop its sales this game is a success cant wait for the game awards

>>514422491>Its not him dying like an idiot that people are mad aboutare you kidding?Most people are complaining about it.

>>514422675Never said he shouldn't pay for his choices you dink. I said the game retroactively makes his choice A SHIT TON more black and white than a rock and hard place. Which is fucking retarded. On the paying for choices, I would have liked it a lot more if the remaining fireflies had it in them to kill Joel and take Ellie to do their job. Not some "you killed my surgeon daddy!" shit. Which is anime tier shit.

also where did the meme threads go all the threads for that matter is Holla Forums going for cyberpunk 2077 next good luck

>>514422491>It's that nothing ever happens after itThat's funny, i could swear there's like 20 hours of content that's literally about the consequences of Joel's death

>>514421894>condemned Humanity is doing just fine though

>>514418310Sick of seeing threads up about this fucking catastrophe, regarding questions that have already been answered. Multiple times, even.>are people just mad that their favorite character got killed by someone they don't like?No. There are good ways to kill off main characters, ala Walking Dead (game) Season 1. Hell, Even the beginning of season 2 had some nice ones. There are ways to kill of main characters, even protagonists without offending/turning off the audience at all. Hell, stories have been doing this practically since the inception of FICTION/non fiction (Macbeth, Julius Caesar, the fucking bible, etc) so it's not that it happened, it's HOW it happened. He was killed off with less dignity than any NPC joel had ever killed, dehumanised even, and then people are supposed to empathise with abby solely because of muh generic revenge? This person is a literal stranger to the franchise, and in the first 2 hours she kills the protagonist from the first game? How is ANYONE supposed to like her without doing some serious mental gymnastics? And then you get to play AS her, fighting against another one of the protagonists from the first game. It's a daring idea from a gameplay perspective, but if you empathise at all with Ellie, I imagine you will not like this game. It just seems to want to be as boundary pushing and edgy as possible, and just seems no longer gritty/dark like in the first game, but ridiculous, over the top, and poorly written.

Let it go, Niel.

>>514422904>I said the game retroactively makes his choice A SHIT TON more black and white than a rock and hard place.What exactly makes you think 2 reframes Joel's choice as "bad"?>I would have liked it a lot more if the remaining fireflies had it in them to kill JoelThis is literally what happens, jesus fucking christ.

>>514422825Unga bunga, they just alt rockers.

>>514420287>*we* made him our favourite (anti)hero>a main character>Neil was angered by this>made an entire new game to 'debunk' this>my feelings were hurt and people need to be gassedthat's quite the fantasy you've concocted, jfc

>>514421252You don’t get to decide that lmao

>>514423274Yeah, just don't quote the rest of my shit you stupid fucking cunt.

>>514421998>bad writingThat's true of both games but people love generic shit.

>>514422748I would play Last of Us 2 if i could play as Joel again. I can't so i will not play it. You can justify his death. Ellie is center point of all of it. I don't want to play as Ellie. And i really don't want to play as some trans psycho on steroids. Another wasted IP from Sony. Grand Tourismo better be great because that is all they have right now.

>>514423241neil won hes drowning in cash who are you a random insignificant user on a imageboard theres no comparison you are a lowlife neil is a success

>>514423208>There are ways to kill of main characters, even protagonists without offending/turning off the audience at all.what an idiotic thing to say.so stories should never kill characters in a non-heroic manner?because people just like them.

>>514418310>Abby decides to go out on her own to hunt down Joel>She fucks up and draws a fucking gorillion infected on the way>Tommy and Joel save her from being torn to shreds>Despite saving her life she immediately chimps out and blows off Joel's knee the first moment she canIt was hilariously enraging even without being overly attatched to the plot.

>>514418310Personally revenge as a motivation does nothing for me. I was completely in Joel's headspace when he realized that his daughter was going to ripped from him all over again, but Abby and Ellie's cross country revenge quests? I just find myself telling them to get over it. If the initial game was centered on Joel indiscriminately killing army goons for revenge I wouldn't have cared then either.

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>>514423354But i decide what i like and what i buy. Cuckmann can write whatever he wants. If he wants to sell game about gay niggers, his choice. But he shouldn't be surprised that people don't like such game.

>>514418310It's not the fact that be dies, but the reason why and the events that followed.

>>514423419Gran Turismo leaks show beloved character Toyota Vitz is killed brutally and is replaced by Trans Lightning McQueen

>>514418741Cringe

>>514418310The main issue was that the character development was just trash. Abby was never a sympathetic character and I disliked her the whole way through, then she doesn't even die.

>>514423628>>Despite saving her life she immediately chimps out and blows off Joel's knee the first moment she canjoel killed her father

>>514421894>Condemned humanityThere are notes in the first game that bring up that there have been multiple immune people and every attempt at a cure ended in failure. Slicing Ellie up would more than likely lead to nothing.

>>514418310They got mad he was killed like a scrub with no relevant buildup, if he had die midways after a long chase and some exposition people wouldn't be bitching nearly as much.

>>514420197>Playing as the tranny that just killed a character you like isn't fun>And i really don't want to play as some trans psycho on steroids.Abby is not a tranny. If you guys are gonna shit on the game at least watch the cutscenes on Youtube or something, don't just rely on 4chan memes and out of context leaks.

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>>514423628>Despite saving her life she immediately chimps out and blows off Joel's knee the first moment she canAnon you do know she's been hunting him for years right? Because he killed her dad and destroyed humanity's chances for a cure?

>>514423903I would put money on some official, probably Druckman himself, revealing that Abby is indeed MtF Trans through a tweet by the end of the year.

>>514423820He also saved her from dying a worse death than her father. If they wrote Abby having any sense in her monkey brain she could have had a moment of inner conflict due to being saved. Instead we got an immediate shotgun blast to the leg and a slow and painful beating and nothing else.

>>514424220Please don't ever write a script

>>514421894Fireflies were just stupid anyway. They should have just been breeding Ellie instead of slicing her head open.

>>514424220Still doesn't change the fact that joel killed her father.you really think every person on planet will forgive someone that killed their father in cold blood?

>>514418310It was just a really ignominious death for a character like Joel. That would have been bad enough even if we were allowed to brutalize and kill Abby in the same way at the end of the game, but you can't even do that because hur hur revenge bad (even though Abby got her revenge so I guess it's just bad if it's the player's revenge). The whole thing ends up just feeling like a frustrating waste of time.

>>514424220>If they wrote Abby having any sense in her monkey brain she could have had a moment of inner conflict due to being saved.Shit user good to know you'd let your dad's killer (who also probably doomed all of humanity) off that easy.

>are people just mad that their favorite character got killed by someone they don't like?"That's, right goyim. Submit. Let the subversion wash over you."

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>>514424596In OP's defense I'd probably feel it out a bit to see if its actually the right Joel. She shot him with just the name Joel, and then said "Joel Miller..."

>>514424596If I knew why he killed my dad and that he just saved my life, probably? There's an undeserved self righteousness to Abby that rubs people the wrong way.

His death isn't the problem, I assumed he'd kick the bucket in this one from the start. The problem is the fact his death has fuck-all buildup, no good pacing and was just sloppily written.

>>514424754>sloppily writtenHow so?

>>514424596if my dad was a retard firefly, yeah sure I'd forgive my savior

>>514424596I'm not even saying she shouldn't have killed him, just a brief moment of 'shit this nigga saved me, should I still kill him so brutally?' before she says fuck it and goes through with it would be a tiny bit more interesting and slightly less infuriating.

>>514424897Hell, even granting him a swift death as a twisted way of showing her appreciation for what Joel and Tommy did for her would be far better than what fucking happened in game.

>>514424897>shit this nigga saved me, should I still kill him so brutally?Can't really expect everyone to act like this.she had already made up his mind what she was going to do to him.

>>514424334You're a complete fucking idiot. Having a moment of hesitation after the person you've been hunting literally saves your life at great personal danger to himself is indeed better writing than just shooting him cuz HUR HUR MY FATHAAAAA. In the first case you're writing a human, in the second you're writing the T1000. Fuck off, dipshit. The TEMERITY of some double digit IQ brainlet talking like this to his better.