>Gameplay loopWhy is this term thrown around so liberally...

>Gameplay loopWhy is this term thrown around so liberally? It seems pretty naïve to reduce a game down to what essentially is a flowchart. Most games are way more complicated and multi-dimensional than that.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Modeling_Language
youtu.be/swSWXQ0B0OIwatch

Video games are often repetitive.

but are theyare they though

>>514416729>It seems pretty naïve to reduce a game down to what essentially is a flowchart.You are so lucky to never have worked in UML. That shit is horrible.

>>514416729Because it's used by massive faggots.

>gameplay (za)loop(a)

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>>514416729Gameplay loop refers to the very core of the gameplay. For example, finding enemy, doing combo 1, 2 or 3, defeating enemy, get loot is a gameplay loop. Combo 1, 2 or 3 can be very complicated and the method of finding enemies worth fighting can also be complicated, but it's still a loop.

>>514416729>It seems pretty naïve to reduce a game down to what essentially is a flowchartThat's literally what computer software is

>>514416729not really.

It was always a thing and something developers were conscious of. The only thing that changed is that it's the cool gamer thing to be aware and critical of right now. Except it's really a cringe gamer thing so shut the fuck up.

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>>514417198>(za)loop(a)

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>>514416729>Why is this term thrown around so liberally?Because it is a useful term for identifying and commenting on the way a game playsMost games are way more complicated and multi-dimensional than thatOk

it's a meme, you've youtube "analysts" and the pretentious twats who watch them to thank for it

>>514416920I guess some people don't like to think they are, because it makes it seem as though their pasttime is a pointless monotonous waste of time.

>>514416729Gameplay was doubleplusnotgood so it had to go

>>514416729>Most games are way more complicatedNo.

LOYDSFERMASEELOYDSFERMASEE WONWORD

>>514417296A flowchart with 10K objects?

>>514418107>noexplain.

>>514418184Or a hundred thousand, or a million, or more.

I’ve heard “gameplay loop” for years. It isn’t new. I was just listening to a Giant Bombcast from 2010 and they said it.

>>514416729you can reduce literally anything to a flowchart with enough reductionism

>>514416729>purposely addictive gameplay loops>lootboxes>skins>only modern gaming

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>>514417198бaзиpoвaнный и кpacнoтaблeтoчный

>>514418164Eochair

>>514418321piss of newton

>>514418265Play more games.

>>514418314This is because people have the memory span of a goldfish and think the universe didn't exist before they were born. What's old is new again, and yadda yadda...

>>514418379>can't explainokiedoke.

>>514418379>Play more shitty gamesFTFY

>>514418541There is nothing to explain.>>514418563Most games are shitty. Therefore, most games use basic gameplay loops.

>>514416729Video games are computer programs. Every computer program can be reduced to what essentially is a flowchart. Every single one. Doesn't matter how complicated they appear, computers at their core are only executing very simple instructions.

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>>514418746Nobody is referring to literal loops of code when they say gameplay loop.

>>514416729It makes a reviewer sound like they know what they're talking about. Knowing industry buzzwords makes you more professional

>>514416729>Most games are way more complicated and multi-dimensional than that.Not in execution, underlying code may be complicated but games have patterns that are rather obvious. So a gameplay loop is a more forgiving term than a 'pattern'.

>>514418314who are you even replying to?

>>514416729Because it describes what you'll spend the majority of your time in the game doing? If you don't like the main gameplay loop chances are you won't like the game. It's more specific than genres but not too specific to where you'd have to have played the game to understand it.

>>514418184More like multiple flowcharts and diagrams to demonstrate every single fucking aspect of the software. It's absolutely horrible.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Modeling_Language

>>514418265You should explain yourself, why are most games more complicated?

>>514416729Name a game without a gameplay loop, they all have one

>>514419240What you just said doesn't describe shit. You can achieve the same result by saying "if you don't like the gameplay/game then you won't like the game". Like no shit bro. Come up with a better example

>>514418967I was using computer software as an example. A lot of programs out there appear complex but are actually just a very simple flowchart. Any task can be broken down like that, no matter how complex it appears.

>>514417198Гocпoди, aнoн, ceйчac дpyгиe вpeмeнa, нeльзя вoт тaк вoт имeть нecчacтных нигpoв.

>>514419283Because we are past the era of 2D arcade games with unambiguous failure states and goals.

>>514418967There are multiple levels for depicting how software works including user interactions with the software.

>>514419375No Man's Sky is a space sim. Many people like space sims. But the gameplay loop is inherently different from that of something like Elite Dangerous. It's an abstract way of quickly defining a game while being more specific than just a genre.

>>514416729>Most games are way more complicated and multi-dimensional than thatNot really. Not most games.

>>514419375>REEEE STOP USING SUBTLETY AND NUANCE IN CONVERSATION

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>>514419563>But the gameplay is inherently different from that of something like Elite Dangerous.See? That sentence expresses the same exact idea even if you just say "gameplay" instead of "gameplay loop"

>>514419418It's going to tell you very little about the gameplay, though.Code is still a very low-level perspective on games. Even if you understand every single line, you won't necessarily know what really happens during the game, because that requires synthesizing high-level information by playing and analyzing the game.

>gameplay loop threadhere we go again...

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>>514419645A review is no place for "subtlety and nuance". If you're doing a game review then tell me the fucking facts, don't dress it up and make it obtuse. I can't stand these floaty reviews that try to describe games like they're a fine vintage with an oaky finish.

>>514416729Not really. Games tend to have an overall objective (beat the game) split into several smaller objectives (beat the level) split into several smaller objectives (beat the stage) split into several smaller objectives (beat the enemy)It tries to distill to the core what the gameplay is and if it is satsifying or not to determine how that affects the rest of game If it's not fun to beat enemies then you'll be less interested in beating stages and therefore less interested in beating levels and therefore less interested in beating the game.

>>514419375The gameplay loop of dungeon crawlers is leave town > kill monsters > pick up loot until your bags are full > teleport to town > sell items > repeat.

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>>514419809Gameplay is how the user interacts or progresses the gameplay loop.

>>514419809The loop part of "gameplay loop" refers to the fact that you'll be repeating that set of actions throughout the majority of the game. I don't get the distain for the word.

>>514419987See this example makes more sense, you mention the term, and then qualify it. Now when you refer to gameplay loop, I know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>514416729is this a new term being used often?

>>514419961Nuance means being more specific than a simple GAMEPLAYGOOD/GAMEPLAYBAD. A review is the exact place you'd hope to see nuance. Specificity can only help you express meaning better.

>>514416729and program is a loop, its going to continue to do something until an event happens. Think of games as lots of little programmed loops with in a single program. Say you are playing a basic game, the game is to walk to the right of the screen and dont take damage by something in the environment. If you take damage then the loop ends and a new event is processed, this would be a game over screen. Modern games are many many many loops. You and break each "mechanic" in the game as a loop.

>>514419375Think of Super Mario gameplay loop on the NES. What do you do when you play it?walk left till you reach the flagpole by the end of the level before the timer ends. avoid pitfalls and enemies or kill them by stomp/fire ball. Collect coins along the way for extra lives if you reach 100. That's pretty much Mario's gameplay loop. I know it get more nuanced than that, but that's what it is at the basic level.

>>514419832>It's going to tell you very little about the gameplay, though.But it does, especially when there are complexities. On the basic level a game could be see enemy, fight, gain loot. Then you can break down each section to more lines and examine how well it is all functioning. You can notice that an enemy can only be dealt with using a very limited selection of the players tools, and depending on how you are designing the game this may be a positive or a negative. If an enemy seems too strong you break it down into a flow chart and see why it can deal with so many things and how its tools can deal with a player. You could see how many points of interaction it takes for player to get from see enemy to loot and where it is making sections drag. I'm honestly not sure why this is so hard to understand. When designing you have to break ideas down into core principles. You're only thinking about things on the level of a player, the final output

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>>514419645>Criticize a term that's overly simplifying and devoid of nuance when describing games>Hurr you hate nuance lol

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>>514416729You are wrong Leonidas. For example FPS is all about running to cover, shoot and reload. Repeat. If you try to reinvent wheel, you usualy fail.

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>>514416729>It seems pretty naïve to reduce a game down to what essentially is a flowchart.It's usually used to define a subset of the game, not the entire thing

>>514420089That's pretty redundant. Everyone who has ever touched a video game already understands that about video games. Trying to insist that gameplay loop is different from gameplay just leads to confusion like this thread, when, again, the sentence would carry the same exact meaning if the word loop was absent. It feels like when I was in IT and I'd get fags trying to use technical jargon ALMOST correctly, but not quite, to try and prove they were in the know or some shit, and that I didn't need to read my "did you try turning it off and on again" script. Spoiler alert: they were usually the worst people to deal with, because they thought they knew what they were talking about while being just as clueless as everyone else

Each game has one or more if you’re an autist about it but it’s only really relevant for some games. I hear it most when people talk about Vermintide. That game was explicitly designed around the fact you’ll be playing the same levels for the same reasons time and time again, so having a well made gameplay loop made sense. If someone talked about it when telling me about hl1 I’d be like wat the gameplay loop is jumping and shooting ok but was it good

>>514420681"gameplay loop" is a subset of "gameplay" and refers to something a bit more specific. Knowing the difference and using it correctly is literally nuanced by definition.

>>514420639>But it does, especially when there are complexities.See, code, the thing in itself, does not offer a lot of pragmatic value.Having a deep understanding of the gameplay requires context and experience. You may know from the code that function X does 30 damage to class type Y, but knowing that does not by itself spawn a high-level strategy to follow when you are playing the game.

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Breaking down a videogame's gameplay loop robs it out of its magic.Example: in driving games the car doesn't really move; it's the backgrounds moving in

>>514421194>pragmatic value.You aren't being pragmatic, you simply lack the perception of a designer and can only see things on a surface level. >but knowing that does not by itself spawn a high-level strategy to followSee again you are thinking like the player and not the designer. Yet you are still wrong, deducing what is best still requires loops. You Test X against Y, then Z against Y, then A against Y and so on. You keep coming back to Y (be it enemy, attack, platform) and and try another option to see what works best. I'm not sure if you are stupid and don't get that a gameplay loop isn't just a single line

>>514420963I'll agree that it's somewhat redundant. But it shouldn't create confusion. The meaning is self evident. Gameplay (the core experience of the game) loop (repeat). If someone can't put 2 and 2 together then maybe they shouldn't play games. It's a term primarily used by jurnos. At the end of the day who cares.

>>514420098so this thread exists because you were too retarded to type "gameplay" and "gameplay loop" into a search engine and compare and contrast the definitions

>>514416729God you are like a child being angry someone told them Santa isnt real.

>>514421693>You are thinking like the player and not the designerA good designer SHOULD be thinking like a player.If you as a game designer get caught up in the numbers and details, you may lose sight of the big picture and forget to address what really matters, an engaging abstract gameplay loop.Ultimately, complexity isn't what makes a game fun, for humans derive much more value from synthesizing ideas from their sensory input rather than crunching numbers.>i'm not sure if you are stupid and don't get that a gameplay loop isn't just a single lineIdeally only for the programmer and implementer, which is not that relevant for the players.

>>514416729Gameplay loops are very important to understanding the fundamentals of gameplay, especially in modern games. The truth is that the majority of games CAN be boiled down to a simple loop flowchart, and it's that loop that leads to a lot of successful skinner box games like WoW, Destiny, Call of Duty, Fortnite, Counter-Strike, etc.Some games do manage to keep things interesting without relying on a central loop, but for the rest, identifying the core gameplay loop is a good way of filtering out repetitive skinner box shit.Give me any game and I will explain the core gameplay loop and why it's boring as fuck.

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>>514422482>A good designer SHOULD be thinking like a player.I get you are just trying to save face at this point, but no you've demonstrated quite well why only thinking like a player is a bad idea. Players are very often not aware of the underlying concepts that are informing their actions. How a game guides them and encourages certain play styles. This is why understanding there is a loop becomes so important, someone who only talks about the bigger picture would never be able to create it as they couldn't lead the player through it by these small important design choices. >for humans derive much more value from synthesizing ideas from their sensory input rather than crunching numbers.Man you are trying way to hard at this point, go watch some flashy lights as that is clearly the only thing on your level.

>>514421669>Example: in driving games the car doesn't really move; it's the backgrounds moving inWhat the fuck are you talking about? That hasn't been the case since the Atari 2600.

>>514423478Thief.Mount and Blade.FEAR.

>>514423658You got me, those games are exceptions, except for FEAR.Enter new area > Shoot baddies > Get spooked > repeat

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>>514422482>you may lose sight of the big pictureGameplay loop works for both you moron. You can have the big picture abstract form and can then break it down into the smaller choices being made. If you want a big picture you need to design how that idea is got across. When someone says stuff like don't get lost in the detail BIG PICTURE, they really mean the small detail is lost on them.>>514423478wait a minute, that rat

>>514423646youtu.be/swSWXQ0B0OIwatch the gameplay closely. Notice how the car is in it's place. the illusion of driving is just the backgound moving in. Camera swaying out of position occasionally gives out the feeling of motion

>>514423639>Players are very often not aware of the underlying concepts that are informing their actions. How a game guides them and encourages certain play styles. This is why understanding there is a loop becomes so importantSo, we agree?The fact that you want to guide players into choosing certain play styles shows exactly why you should be thinking like a player as a designer, no?>Man you are trying way to hard at this point, go watch some flashy lights as that is clearly the only thing on your level.That's a nice projector you have.

>>514424134Okay so how do you explain the multiplayer?

>>514424134The car moves around a lot and reacts to objects and bumps in the environment. Nevermind the fact that that method would be infinitely more difficult to work with for no reason.Yeah instead of moving one object let's move the entire game world, all the dynamic objects and cars driving around it simultaneously, we'll have to program it so that the AI is offset by the vectors of the world moving around but it will be worth it just to fool some random guy on 4chan.

>>514419898Its like we are in some sort of repeating shape.P.S. Fucking 20 captchas... This is why I havent posted on cuckchan in over 2 months.

>>514423964>When someone says stuff like don't get lost in the detail BIG PICTURE, they really mean the small detail is lost on them.What they really mean is that they lose their aim and direction.Take as an example a game like Doom. So often misrepresented due to the unawareness of the core gameplay loop.Clones aren't necessarily inaccurate or bad because the running speed is wrong or the weapons are too weak/strong, but because they have an entirely different design philosophy.Yes, the small choices do matter a lot, but only insofar as they clash with the core gameplay loop. This is why it's so important not to lose focus, the design ultimately hinges on what the big picture dictates.