Why did the writers choose to use this as the last scene...

It re-contextualizes her journey and shows that her revenge was fueled by the guilt she felt that she never told Joel that she forgave him. Killing Abby is her way to make up for it.

>>514407952that's exactly it Druckman got butthurt because he realized that gamers began to think Joel's actions in the first game were good So now we get this game which is essentially a bit of a TRoS walking back everything that the first game did

>>514407952>But then why did they spend almost half the game making you play as Abby and trying to make you sympathetic to her?Because the game is about the fallout of Joel's decision at the end of the first game so we need to understand the perspective of the people he impacted. It's the same reason we play as Ellie in the final scene of the first game. >The only explanations is they see Joel as a bad guy and thought the players would eventually side with Abby.That isn't the only explanation, you're not supposed to side with any of the characters, you're supposed to want them to stop making bad choices. It's not about picking a team.

>>514408257>Druckman got butthurt because he realized that gamers began to think Joel's actions in the first game were goodThat's not true, Druckmann just acknowledged that Joel wronged a lot of people and when you wrong someone they might want to get back at you.

>>514406834Because it's the fucking reason why she went for revenge in the first place. She wasn't mad that they killed Joel. She was mad that they took Joel away from her before she could actually forgive him. Placing in at the end concludes the flashbacks' storyline and contextualizes her choices throughout the game.I swear it's like you fucking retards can't understand basic storytelling.

its just a really long episode of the walking dead

>>514406834They wanted to be profound and deep. They weren't

>>514406834you're supposed to watch the cutscenes zoomeralso guaranteed you played on casual mode

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>>514409482The whole game youre thinking>Why is she this angry when she hated him all gameBut no she was trying to forgive him. Youre a faggot and a retard.

>>514406834Lou2 haters have been exposed as fucking brainlets

>>514407952You're a moron

>>514409482> She wasn't mad that they killed Joel. She was mad that they took Joel away from her before she could actually forgive him. Oh so she would be totally OK and not that mad if her and Joel were on the best terms? Or if she never planned to forgive Joel? Didn't we know that they weren't on good terms from previous flashbacks? This flashback doesn't contextualize shit. The game is just poorly paced and edited.

>>514408321>That isn't the only explanation, you're not supposed to side with any of the characters, you're supposed to want them to stop making bad choices. It's not about picking a team.Maybe on the surface level but there definitely seems to be a clear narrative underneath. I don't mean "trannies good white man bad" I mean it feels like the devs retconned Joel's personality and decision making which led him into that ridiculous scenario that got him killed.

>>514409853People who think LOU2 is well written and the shallowest pseuds

>>514409482I thought they relationship was broken after that flashback where he tells her the truth , and she felt guilty about it. Really the ending flashback should make her less guilty and angry. She already made the first step and her last moment with Joel was a positive one

>>514410150>Maybe on the surface level but there definitely seems to be a clear narrative underneath. I don't mean "trannies good white man bad" I mean it feels like the devs retconned Joel's personality and decision making which led him into that ridiculous scenario that got him killed.This. In that scene you'd think he was only out in the apocalypse for 5 minutes instead of decades considering how much of a retard he was.

>>514410150I don't think they did, I think you're just misremembering what he was like in the first game and not picking up on the subtle details that explain his actions in the second.

>>514407952Not necessarily. They're just exploring morality being different for other people. The audience sided with Joel in the last game because from his perspective his actions were justifiable and not all that bad. Much like how Abby's revenge, to her and her group, wasn't bad because they saw Joel as a terrible person. But again, the audience didn't feel that way towards him, and I still only see a very small amount of people claiming Joel was bad. I don't even get the impression they're making Joel seem like a bad person, just that they're pointing out the weight of his actions.But the point was that all of the suffering in the game could have been avoided if Abby wasn't so hellbent on revenge no matter the cost, and we were shown her side to learn what that cost was. The problem is, we also saw it from Ellie's side in a sinilar way. That parallel must have seemed really good on paper for them to stick with it in the game, but I personally don't think it worked.

>>514410503Dude what in the fuck are you on? In the first game like every single group of people he meets try to fucking murder him and Ellie. Then in this one he just waltzes in the middle of a room surrounded by a group of armed people he barely knew, and I'm supposed to believe that's the same Joel from the first game? Really?

>>514410086>Didn't we know that they weren't on good terms from previous flashbacks?No idiot, pay fucking attention if you're gonna criticize a story. Ellie loses her shit at Joel when he tells her the truth at the hospital, and since then their relationship is broken. That's why she's mad at him when he tries to act like her father at the party, but even then she realizes that he's doing it because he truly loves her, so then we get the porch scene where she says she's gonna try to eventually forgive him. Which then leads to the beginning of the game.>Oh so she would be totally OK and not that mad if her and Joel were on the best termsProbably not, but that's not what the game is about so we'll never know.

>>514410150>I mean it feels like the devs retconned Joel's personality and decision making which led him into that ridiculous scenario that got him killed.In what way?

>>514410412>Really the ending flashback should make her less guilty and angry. She already made the first step and her last moment with Joel was a positive oneShe doesn't forgive him in the final scene. She says she's gonna try.>her last moment with Joel was a positive oneHer last moment with Joel (except for his death) was when he came to her room at the beginning of the game. That's why in that scene you can tell Joel is trying to get on her good side and Ellie acts distant but still gives him a compliment when he finished his song. It's the first stepping stone in rebuilding their relationship. Then Abby comes in and rips that away from her. That's her reason for wanting revenge.

>>514410698The entire chain of events leading to his death is ridiculous, but it never contradicts his character. Tommy is the one following them, Joel sticks to his side. Tommy says their names, Joel had already said they're gonna leave. He just saved a girl, and they got chased by a horde to a "safe" location.

>>514410781>TLOU1>Joel and Ellie get a truck, drive miles away to a new city>Ellie spots a man in need of help in the middle of the road, Joel instantly knows that it's a setup and drives through the guy and his ambushing buddies>TLOU2>Joel and Tommy just happen to run into Abby in the middle of a blizzard and decide to help her out for some reason even though she's being chased by one hundred zombies>Snowed in, Joel and Tommy are somehow persuaded to travel to Abby's mansion where her friends are waiting>Tommy plays buddy-buddy with all of Abby's friends despite twenty-five years of pure survival in a post-apocalyptic world; Joel says nothing the entire time, not even "Are you sure about this?">There is a decent window of time for Tommy and Joel to notice that Abby has a fucking shotgun pointed at Joel and neither of them say or do anything when they would have immediately made a move in the first game

>>514410698>Dude what in the fuck are you on? In the first game like every single group of people he meets try to fucking murder him and Ellie.He trusts Henry very quickly in the first and that's before his character development. In fact, he gets angry because he feels betrayed that Henry leaves him to die. He knew this guy for like a day. On Joel's death scene though, he saves Abby and they're stuck in the middle of a blizzard and being overwhelmed by infected. They didn't have a choice but to go with Abby. When they get there they're just normal, friendly people who are in the middle of no where. These people are not bandits and they have nothing to gain from doing anything to Joel and Tommy. Joel has also been living a soft life for five years and Jackson regularly trades with outsiders. A week before his death Joel traded with strangers for some coffee. Even considering all that, Joel was sizing everyone in the room up, it was Tommy who was relaxed and who introduced them both. He really didn't do anything out of character, it was just a really unlucky (one might say contrived) situation.

>>514411276I don't think it's worth arguing with most of your points, because you seem to have a fanciful idea of what Joel is like and how he has changed, but I will say that Joel didn't notice Abby's shotgun because he was sizing everyone up in the room except for her, because she's a young girl like Ellie and he saved her life. I think Abby looks a bit too old because she's a more bigger and more masculine than Ellie, so this doesn't necessarily come across that well, but I wanted to point it out anyway.

>>514411108>It's the first stepping stone in rebuilding their relationshipI don't understand why this would make her feel more guilty and angry opposite to her never making this first step... The relationship wasn't fixed but it was mended a bit. It's not really as deep as you think it is.

>>514411108She's still young in that scene when he plays Future Days no? That's when he tells her he's gonna teach her to play guitar, which definitely isn't their last moment together.

>>514406834>and his death doesn't even get revenged.But it does like 80%. Ellie and Tommy killed everyone of Abby's group except for Abby herself.

>>514411461I'm not the guy you were responding to. I'm another person who agrees with him because he's right. The whole scenario and plot for that matter is contrived to hell and back.If you're not going to address someone's points in a discussion, I don't know why in the world you decided to join the discussion in the first place. Especially when you need to have the events of both games spelled out for you just so you can follow along with what everyone else is talking about.

>>514406834They were probably attempting some DEEP narrative about how he is still alive inside of her yadda yadda REVENGE BAD ENJOY HARVEST MOON WITH MUTT BABBI

>>514411751I just wanted to give you an FYI. Neil Druckmann explained Joel's death scene. I'm not that interested in arguing about whether or not the scene is stupid because I'm sick of the discussion and I think in a few months people will stop being stupid about it.

>>514411108>Her last moment with Joel (except for his death) was when he came to her room at the beginning of the game. That's why in that scene you can tell Joel is trying to get on her good side and Ellie acts distant but still gives him a compliment when he finished his song.What ? Have you even played the game or are you fucking with us. That was a flashback she was a kid then. Last moment with Joel was last flashback

>>514411932Then why are you here?

>>514410503I played it like two weeks ago.>>514410609Joel was justified as the Fireflies were bad faith and planned on executing him anyways. Abby and her father are part of the "bad" faction and her "revenge" was murder.>>514411276Basically this>>514411724Nobody gives a fuck about a group of literal whos when some of the new characters in the main group (IE Jesse) were actually decent and they were basically all killed off along with Joel.Tommy didn't even get to avenge his brother.

because the people who made this story watched the movies that subverted genre expectations, but never watched the movies that established those genre expectations in the first place.

>>514411990This thread is about the final scene, not Joel's death scene.

>>514412101Keep changing topics, it makes me laugh.

>>514408257>he realized that gamers began to think Joel's actions in the first game were goodWhy would he be butthurt about a valid interpretation written into the game's lore though?

>>514406834the game is bad with bad writing but how does the sledgehammer storytelling go over peoples head? Is everyone fucking retarded?

>>514412186Because he's a pathetic, immature narcissist who can't write a story without forcing all of his personal grievances into it.

>>514412153I'm just trying to explain to you that I don't care to argue about Joel's death scene dude. I'm sorry you thought it was stupid. I've heard your arguments before from other people and I've had this discussion. I didn't think it was stupid. I don't want to hash it out again. You're not going to tell me anything new. Sorry.

Abby should have just fisted Joel to death. She's already got built in guns.

>>514412290Because it's not really saying anything, it's not contextualizing anything.She was going to forgive him adds maybe a little more motivation to her actions, but if you ask me it adds less because at least they had a positive heartfelt conversation before he died

>>514411751Contrived, sure. Retconning Joels character so he can be killed? Nah.

>>514412186You are talking about a guy who put himself in the game just to spit on Joel

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>>514408071So I guess she never ever forgives Joel.

>>514412439Then why talk about it at all? You don't have to keep responding to me.>>514412591>Nah.Oh okay, I see the light now. You really changed my mind on this, thanks. No need for any examples or an explanation as to why you view things the way you do. Great contribution, man.

>>514412545Thats the point it adds to her motivation and provides the player with hope that Joels last thoughts weren't of his fractured relationship with Ellie. Its a bad ending to a bad game but its not fucking rocket science and it still goes over peoples head.

>>514411276>TLOU1>big nig bro with small nig hunted by zombies offer a shelter to Joel and Ellie>Joel agrees and goes there >TLOU2>Abby hunted by zombies offers a shelter to Joel>Joel agrees and goes thereYou are full of shit.

>>514412747>Then why talk about it at all? You don't have to keep responding to me.I just wanted to tell you about what the writer said he was going for because it's interesting and it might give you something new to look at in the scene. I'm sorry.

>zoomers in charge of understanding writing 101Kek

>>514412619>Still pushing this discredited Reddit cringe

>>514412619And to get violently killed by Tommy, apparently. But that doesn't fit your narrative does it user?

>>514407695How can I tell that a huehue made this post?

>>514412718I don't think it was ever about forgiving Joel as it was feeling guilty she was a total bitch to him after she found out about the hospital. She knew why he did it and probably would of done the same for Joel or someone she loves.

>>514412619gets dabbed on by Tommy

>>514412305You are far too emotional about this. I don't like Druckman, but it's clear their intention isn't to sabotage his character. They're trying to justify Abby's hatred so you can understand her motive and maybe even like her (which doesn't work IMO), but Joel is highlighted as a pretty decent person throughout. Side characters connected to him speak highly of him too.

>>514412793I thought they never reconnected after that hospital scene.To know that they did reconnect a bit doesn't change anything for me. It should actually make her less made because >Joels last thoughts weren't of his fractured relationship with EllieOf what you said

>>514411276Joel's encounter with Abby has zero similarities with your first example and is closer to the encounter with Henry and Sam... which he didn't shoot on sight, in case you don't remember.

>>514413023This

>>514409482>she wasnt mad they killed JoelBased retard

>>514412718Wrong, she forgave him.

>>514413023But that's why her last conversation with him should make her feel less guilty and not give her extra motivation to act like a lunatic.

>>514412843Joel and Henry weren't friendly right away, it took some convincing on both their parts to agree to stay in the same place together. Actually, Joel is pretty silent during the whole arrangement. Tommy does all the talking. I am of the belief that Neil wrote it this way on purpose because he knew that the players would know that Joel would never be so trusting whereas Tommy was always about giving up the raider lifestyle and rebuilding society.Go fuck yourself.>>514412849Stop apologizing.>>514413061What makes you think I'm emotional? I'm having a blast reading everyone's neanderthalian thoughts on this sad excuse for a """game""". Also your post has nothing to do with what I said in response to the previous post. You're referring to TLOU2, my post and the one before it were referring to TLOU1.

>>514412747There are explanations in this thread already. See;>>514411280>>514412843The series of events to get Joel in a situation where he could be killed that way are forced, but this still doesn't change his character.

>>514409853This basically. I can respect criticism of gameplay and shallow level design but this whole outrage is proof that the average Holla Forumsirgin hasn't read a book since high school.

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>>514413104He got closure while she never got full closure she was robbed by a aryian butch. The pic that ops posted is the scene of them trying to move past Joel dabbing on the fireflies.

>>514412956hi Neil :)>>514412963It actually has nothing to do with my narrative, the revenge story was built and pieced together after Joel's death. The entire sequence is smug as fuck.

Why do you fucks even pretend to like this franchise? Both games sucked massive cocks

>>514413319>Joel would never be so trustingHe trusts Henry enough to let his guard down the moment it's clear that he's not one of the raiders.

>>514413454>the revenge story was built and pieced together after Joel's deathYou have no idea how a writing process works do you user. Are you a teenager or something? This is kind of embarrassing tbqh.

>>514413291she just decided to forgive him the night before he was killed. It was going to take more time than that, it was a start and Abby took that opportunity away from her.

>>514406834I think it is very obnoxious for a game to pull this trick. I would have understood if we were talking about a film or a book. But in a videogame you embody a character, you don't just follow him around, you choose to a certain degree his course of actions. So the bond the player has with that character seems stronger to me than in any other media. In the LTOU you've spent the whole game playing Joel and emphasizing with him and this father/daughter dynamic. Plus the fireflies are lunatics. In the end the reason why they would kill Ellie is retarded and Joel was totally justified. In the LTOU2 not only do what they retcon lot of things from LTOU they force you to play as Joel's murderer. It seems like they just don't care about the first installment, disregard everything that happened and pull the revenge story out of their ass because the only innovative narrative device (for a videogame) they thought of is this change of perspective, which again is gross considering how the player feels about Joel and Ellie.And to top it all of, they lied and used false advertising to lure people in.

>>514413383Worse, the average Holla Forumsirgin is still in high school (also plays vidya instead of reading books).

>>514411993>Joel was justifiedIn our eyes, yeah. Would it be the same if we only wver experienced Abby's side of the story and never knew about the shit Joel and Ellie went through? Probably not, at least for the majority.

>>514413383The gameplay and level design was outdated even in 2013 and it is ancient in 2020, literally everybody knows this retard. The story is the only thing that ever mattered in TLOU and in a video game board where you talk about video games... well I'll let you guess the punch line.

>>514407952Because it's a video game and it's intrinsic to the medium that you can experience a story from the point of view of different characters?

>>514413842That's the point retard, this outrage is like watching a horde of illiterate apes try to discuss literature

>>514413685This story doesn't exist without Joel's death. Have (you) even read a book? Manga doesn't count.

dumb question by why aren't pitbulls used by cops? weren't they literally bread for shit like that?

>>514413129The point was that Joel was never quick to trust anyone in the first game. In TLOU2, he goes along without even questioning anything or keeping his guard up.>>514413331Him being in those situations at all is proof that his character has changed. He was always smarter, he had to be.>>514413598Again, it took time for Joel to ease up around Henry. Even then, the two of them fight later after Henry ditches Joel. Joel would have killed him and had every right to do so if Ellie didn't stop him. Also, trusting Henry was a lower risk situation since it was just him and his brother. The moment Abby mentions she has friends in a mansion, Joel should have been wary. "How many friends? Could they all gang up and take my brother and I? We'd be sitting ducks."

>>514407952>learn both sides of a conflict>NOOOOOOO THERE HAS TO BE GOOD GUYS AND BAD GUYS IF YOU SHOW ME THE BAD GUYS THAT MEANS THEY'RE ACTUALLY THE GOOD GUYSTribalism has fried your brain.

>>514411993>Joel was justifiedNo

>>514414013>Outrage>Criticizing and discussing a video game's writing is outrage

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>>514414078>plot is "built and pieced together" after the factFor the love of God read a book

>>514414013You don't need a degree to discuss a story...The pacing and structure of the game is incredibly bad, everyone can notice it.You don't need a degree in literature to realize that every side character is shallow, and they spend so much time on dina and she's still shallow and you feel like you don't know anything about herOr to realize that no relationship in the game comes close to TLOU Ellie/JoelOr to realize the ending is anti-climactic. Youtube comments with the meme>this is like John Wick if he killed everyone but the guy who killed his dogAre more insightful and reading retardera comments pulling pseudo intellectual arguments out of their ass trying to justify why the last several hours were even necessary

>>514414232Explain to me how they would have successfully developed a vaccine for a fungal infection, manufactured enough for everyone in America, and successfully distributed it to every single person to the point where society could rebuild on a national scale. Also keep in mind that vaccines don't work on fungal infections in real life.

>>514414320TLOU2 outrage is reddit

>>514413319The way you're responding, I guess. To dislike a game strongly enough to dedicate time to complaining about it definitely takes some emotional investment. You lose nothing by moving on to other shit in life, especially if you haven't played the game.You may be talking about TLOU1, but earlier posts are about his ending choice in 1 that ripples throughout 2. Are you not talking about why he killed Joel off, and why he made the choice to have you play as Abby? Were you not saying that the reasoning for those is because Druckman is mad about people siding with Joel?

>>514414116Do TLOU pseuds even play video games or do you really think this is the first game with moral ambiguity ever.

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>>514414403>this is like John Wick if he killed everyone but the guy who killed his dogNeglecting everything leading up the beach fight, nice.

>>514406834he is a hack writer who did not bother to introduce the Abbynator properly before she killed off Joel. Neil Hackmann expected us to like her no matter what.This character will forever be mocked and i hope she will appear in Last of Us 2 because Holla Forums had a blastyoutube.com/watch?v=2rcRR_aVGVI&list=LL9k5JKpR8YytYQ0w5bkv5SQ&index=7&t=567s

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>>514414116If you do not think the writer's goal was to make Joel the bad guy and Abby the good guy you likely did not play the game or just felt like being autistic today.TLOU2 is far far from being a morally grey story. Pic related is a morally grey story.

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>>514414538>do you really think this is the first game with moral ambiguity ever.Not at all. That's why I'm surprised that people like you are so insanely assblasted by it. It's like you've never played a game with conflicting POVs before.

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>>514414538Nobody is even stating it's the first, or does it well. They're pointing out how stupid it is to not follow a basic plot structure such as opposition exposure.

>>514414645>the writer's goal was to make Joel the bad guy and Abby the good guyDoubling down on your retarded tribalism isn't going to help your cause zoomer.

>>514414451Good thing this thread was just a discussion of the story and specifically the endingSee >>514414603 this is Reddit.

>>514414595See maybe these retarded justifications sound right in your head but there's absolutely no fucking reason to go trough entire fucking thing again, traveling across the country , killing 40 people, getting your fingers bit off just so she can change her mind in the span of several seconds then give no reason why she changed her mind except a "flashback" even the pseuds who like this game can't agree on what exactly it means. How the fuck if there was any lessons to be learned no one learned them in seattle, where we fucking played 12 hours of the story from another POV just for them to reuinite and no one to learn fucking anything. It doesn't fucking make any sense from any point,structure, pacing , anything no matter how "deep" do you think it is

>>514414847eat shit faggot he's right

>>514414860Agreed I enjoy actual discussion of the game and its story because there's a lot to unpack. What's annoying is retarded redditors and youtubefags turning this thing into a political crusade

>>514414759Did you ever consider that we have, and this was just done badly and at the worst possible moment in the story?

>>514414082Which is why the writing is so contrived. There really weren't any alternatives that would make sense for his character either. They knew hunters were a threat alongside the infected, but had no good reason to suspect shit about Abby until it was too late. As soon as that gate shuts behind them, they're fucked. Getting behind that gate used hordes of infected. It's tunnel writing, it is by no means good, but it still doesn't change his character.

>>514414847You aren't even using tribalism correctly.>zoomerOuted yourself as a teenager.

>>514414457I'm just winding down from work before bed. Trying to make sure my phones are charged for the day tomorrow. Saw some funny posts in this thread and thought I would pass the time. Don't worry bud, I'll ditch this thread momentarily.You're correct, that's what I was saying. Although I would point a difference in Neil's portrayal of Joel's reputation versus Joel's actions. I agree with you that Joel's reputation is intact, even better than it was in the first game. But Joel's actions don't speak to his intellect that we know him for. That is what I meant by Neil changing Joel's character for the worse. It's disrespectful to write him acting so carefree when we've never known him to act as such in moments of danger.

>>514415035Samefagging won't help you either zoomer.

>>514409853you sounds like a retard. literally everyone says that story is overlong

>>514415046The only really interesting thing to discuss is the number of dimensions they managed to get this story wrong on, despite it being extremely simplistic message that no one should have any trouble conveying, but they did...

>>514414987She was conflicted about it before the flashback already. Are you retarded?

>>514406834GET BETTER WRITERS! A story game with a bad story are SHIT!

>>514414860you are a retard who doesn't understand storytelling

>>514415091That's another point entirely than "no the game wants you think Joel is bad guy and Abby is good guy" which is objectively wrong and retarded

>>514415143you are a dumb nigger and a newfag

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>>514414645>New Vegas>morally greyNot to me. NCR all the way baybee, Legioncucks can kiss my ass.

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>>514415046>turning this thing into a political crusadeBut they writers already made it political, mate

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>>514415372I wouldn't say it's retarded notion,maybe poorly worded one. The game does try to make it seem like Joel doomed everyone and gives no counter arguments against the fireflies which were obviously present in the first game. The game really does try hardest to get you to like Abby and not only in pathetic or forced story moments, but giving her the best setpieces and gameplay sections after Ellie which just felt like a slog.

>>514406834With Jews you lose

>>514415096Joel and Tommy could have just left Abby to die. No skin off their backs. The risk was so high, saving one girl while potentially being mauled by one hundred zombies? Terrible trade off, not worth it at all. But then the game wouldn't have happened.Actually, that's another problem I have with the story. Abby and Owen discuss infiltrating Joel and Tommy's town, even though it seems impossible to pull off successfully. If they had actually come up with a plan to get in, kill Joel, and get out, that would have been way more impressive. I might actually care more about Abby's crew since they would display some real intellect; the threat Ellie would face for the rest of the game would be real. Instead, Abby and her crew get handed their objective on a silver platter with no real obstacle in their way except for a long road from Washington to Wyoming.

>>514415591Ye but not in the way youtubefags think.

>>514415143>>514415469Ouch, imagine accusing someone of same fagging without actually knowing how to check. Lurk more

>>514415142Yeah, definitely. I don't think Druckman even did it intentionally though, I just don't think his writing team is good enough to pick up on how poorly they presented the whole thing. The writing in the game never feels like a natural sequence of events, and they set you up for that in the first hour. So by the time you get to Abby's section most players will probably be fed up already.

>>514407371Wrong. Ellie realises she’s hated Joel since before his death and avenging him won’t fix the fact she should’ve died at the hospital. She lets Abby go because they both wanted the same thing, for one reason or the other.

>>514415670Explain

>>514415591I don't know how I'm supposed to live in the same society with people who think that gay = political, not gay = non-political. I don't know what can be done to fix you people.

I liked the part where Tommy went full John Wick

>>514415769Wrong.

>>514415585Stop trying to bait me into discussing New Vegas because I can go all night.

>>514415469>>514415748Imagine not knowing about inspect element. But it's kind of cute watching you give it your best shot zoomer.

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>>514415764Haha, you're probably right. Well, if the rumors are true, everyone at Naughty Dog that could have reigned in Neil and his writing has either left the studio or been fired. The end result of that is a story that feels like the last season of Game of Thrones. A story where you can feel the writers forcing things down a certain path that they had in mind instead of writing something organic based on the characters themselves. I think it was you or maybe someone else that referred to it as tunnel writing.

>>514415796Don't you see the irony in what you're saying? You're claiming they're ignorant but don't understand putting in political flags & books isn't political

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>>514415947stop @ing me retard.

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>>514415770It's political in the sense that it attempts to tackle themes like rebuilding society and religious extremism (Scars)It's not political in the sense that putting a woman or a lesbo in it is anti white men feminazi whatever bullshit.

>>514416057Also worth noting that TLOU was a finished movie script Neil wrote before becoming a game, and it's probably something he tweaked for a lot of time. There are creators like that , they just have a few good stories in them and that's it.

>>514415591What am I supposed to be angry about?>>514415796Literally a vicious cycle. >>514415769Lmao, Ellie looked at Joel like a father.

Sorry. Brainlets wouldn't understand.They aren't literal whos if you actually paid attention to the story, and didn't just ignore it because you were heart- and mindbroken over Joel.

>>514407371This

>>514416196Was it really? I never knew that. The upcoming HBO series make more sense now. And yes, not all writers can sustain themselves indefinitely. I'm curious what Neil's plans for the future are, or what might happen to him.

Story's shit trying to be too deep. Glad I sold it to some loser. I'm not even interested in the multiplayer.

>>514415834I liked that part too.

>>514415657The infected were already right beside them when he saves her. Maybe it was a strength in numbers thing, or just a lapse in judgement. I don't know if Joel and Tommy would just let a woman get eaten if they're already in a position to help. I also have that problem with the story. It's consistently pulling shit like that, rarely does it have a set up that feels like it could follow a comfortable pace. It is a constant stumble between plot points. So you know nothing will go right but they'll write some way for it to work out. It feels amateur, which would be fine if it had characters that could carry you through like.

>>514416376>Upcoming HBO seriesThat can't be rea....

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>>514416376he's a jew, the VP of Naughty Dog and has made countless contacts in entertainment. I really hope he moves on to television/ movies, but we will never be rid of him.

>>514416069What you expect to see in a story and what's "normal" is still political. You thinking that "political" means that it touches on some wedge issues like gays or trannies, or that there's a politician in it, is deeply fucking depressing. If you just said "I prefer the politics of only having straight people in a game" or whatever I'd be fine with what you're saying, but the fact that you're not intelligent enough to comprehend that just because something is normal to you it doesn't mean it's apolitical. If you can't comprehend something so simple you're not going to be able to comprehend other simple things. If you're so bad at comprehending the world around you, you're going to act in such a way that makes the world worse. If you make the world worse, you make my life worse. Stop fucking up my life.

>>514409482Yes thoses people are dumb, obviously it's why she's that angry in the game because she had a lot of regrets

>>514416719Uh, hello, Based Department?

>>514416567HBO is great though

>>514416891Have you seen the new Watchmen series or Westworld season 3?

>>514416891But vidya movies/shows are not

>>514414081Too fat

>>514416935Have you seen Chernobyl?

>>514406834>fanboys of the game accept that the gameplay is mediocre but its a 10/10 story>absolutely terrible narrative choices

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>>514417007Yes, I have. Are you going to answer my question or ignore it? In case you were wondering, Chernobyl >>>>> Westworld Season 3 >>> Watchmen

>>514416719It's not like they're hiding it, manchild. They've stated it on their social media that yes, they see games as political. It's amazing you're this ignorant

>>514416750> it's why she's that angry in the game because she had a lot of regretsBut we knew this from at least two other flashbacks before this.

>>514417109>Chernobyl >>>>> Westworld Season 3 >>> WatchmenAgreed. I actually haven't finished Season 3 of Westworld yet but geez talk about dropping the ball.

>>514417414I loved the visual aesthetic of the first episode. It felt like the TRON 3 that we never got. Also Dolores looks fucking hot. But goddamn, it is a marginal improvement over season 2 which was already a dumpster fire.

>>514417307>They've stated it on their social media that yes, they see games as political.Yep but not for the reasons you think brainlet. Putting chicks in vidyer isn't politics

>>514411932>Druckman has a reason for why he wrote what he didNo shit, a writer always has a "reason" for what they do. However, Druckman did not create Joel. He helped assist parts of Joel's story in the first game. And he clearly lacked the ability to remember what Joel was like objectively, especially from his comments in interviews about the character. He retained a chip on the shoulder, a mindset about the character that he probably wanted more control over (after all his original pitch was shot down for being too melodramatic).

>>514412619He's a pretty funny (likeable) guy and a bro to his peers. One thing this game tries to show the player is that both Jackson and WLF groups are more or less equal in their status as protagonists.The WLF are more darker though, due to their active military-style society, including employing people who are/ were doing bad shit in general and they are combatants first, not really a peace-loving society. I think the WLF group are also more cowardly and a bunch of asswipes. They all follow Abby on her quest to get revenge and they allow a situation to play out in the worst possible way. The main bitch move being that Joel saves Abby's life from a violent death, and that she still moves on with her intended reptile-brain motive, instead of having even a the slightest moment of doubt. And this includes the entire group; upon being discovered some of them insist on annihilating the witnesses as to not suffer potential consequences. In this, the golfing bitch takes the moral high ground and orders everyone to leave them alive. I guess I went on a tangent, but what I'm trying to say is, the writing is inconsistent and when you take control of Abby midway through, it tries to show all the side characters - including this guy - their good sides, but most of it falls flat on its face because of how eager they were to torture and kill in Jackson.

>>514417307Do you know why they see games as political? Because games are political. Whether or not you say games are political or not doesn't change that. It doesn't matter what you think, except for some shit like Tetris, games are highly political.

>>514417671>No shit, a writer always has a "reason" for what they do. However, Druckman did not create Joel. He helped assist parts of Joel's story in the first game. And he clearly lacked the ability to remember what Joel was like objectively, especially from his comments in interviews about the character. He retained a chip on the shoulder, a mindset about the character that he probably wanted more control over (after all his original pitch was shot down for being too melodramatic).You're just assuming that Druckmann didn't create Joel because you don't like what he did in this story.

>>514414343As a person who's worked on writing projects before? That user's probably totally right. The game feels constructed around an event. Characters are literally manifested to contextualize and speed events along around Joel's death. The game can drop them at will and add them at will because they don't mean anything. Everything after Joel's death are constructed setpieces. And the longer the game goes the more the game becomes inconsistent.

>>514417671>Druckmann didn't come up with JoelHuh?>Director Bruce Straley and creative director Neil Druckmann led the team responsible for developing The Last of Us.[18]>While at university, Druckmann had an idea to merge the gameplay of Ico (2001) in a story set during a zombie apocalypse, like that of George A. Romero's Night of the Living Dead (1968), with a lead character similar to John Hartigan from Sin City (1991–2000). The lead character, a police officer, would be tasked with protecting a young girl; however, due to the lead character's heart condition, players would often assume control of the young girl, reversing the roles. Druckmann later developed it when creating the story of The Last of Us.[20] Druckmann views The Last of Us as a coming of age story, in which Ellie adapts to survival after spending time with Joel, as well as an exploration of how willing a father is to save his child.[21]

>>514413726Don't forget make you play as his murderer and beat up Ellie like a video game bossfight as well as make Ellie have a pyrric victory in the final fight scene for extra drama

>>514417769Please explain the political message of Darkest Dungeon.

>>514417863I mean yeah that's how "avenge dead family member" plots usually go don't they

I stopped caring about this trainwreck like 4 days ago. Stop spamming this shit.

>>514417895And surprisingly, none of that has anything to do with Joel other than his foundational design. Joel's character comes through the narrative of the first game, which is from a team of writers.

>>514414603Do any of Fuckmann's Twatter posts so far even mention Ma' amstrong?

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>>514417769Nope

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>>514418145Uh no. Character and narrative are two different fields. You don't develop the character parallel to storyboarding you do it before it even starts.

>>514416891They have the best shows on tv but their batting average is 30/100 in terms of great to shit.

>>514418074Not at all. If Druckman thought even a slight amount he would've designed what gets a "grave" early on. He would've compared the game's original good qualities with its bad. Used those to improve and iterate. Adding some internal monologue to ease those long solo periods of the game. Make sure to have characters talking to each other openly and discuss things so that context isn't lost.

>>514417769Every game with a story is political, then? That's what you're saying? Tell me what Shaq Fu was trying to say through a political lens. I'll wait.

>>514418205>Indian probably Muslim>bigoted and sad postkek, nice diversity Cuckmann....

>>514406834>Time Skips>Flash backs>Swapped perspectives>Flash backs inside of flash backs

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I haven't played it, but:>As the player ventures into the manor, the dungeons below it, and the surrounding lands, they find their relative's memoirs telling of the terrible deeds he had done in pursuit of knowledge and power. It's making certain presuppositions about what people will do to seek power and knowledge, whether or not it's worth it, the cost of discovery, etc.

>>514418302Except characters emerge commonly during storyboarding. Character foundation (especially in group projects) needs to be a solid base to work with and you don't ever FUCK with because it immediately reveals the committee function behind it. Joel's foundation is changed in TLOU2. That'd be fine, but there's not nearly ever enough justification to warrant it, so it comes off as either a misunderstanding of the original character or a cheap change for a cheap emotional pull.

>>514418324I found TLOU2's dialogue to be quite blunt and open

Looking back on it, my biggest gripe with the story is we go on this misguided revenge plot as Ellie, only in chapter 3 to be straight up told she absolutely did know the entire time what Joel did.

>>514417769>except for some shit like Tetristetris is russian propaganda

>>5144185392's dialogue is blunt in a way a hatchet or hammer is blunt. It's not exploratative. Characters do not have moments where they are decompressing or unpacking emotions. They skip all this because for some reason the game has to take place over three fucking days. Abby essentally has Joel's character arc over two days while Joel's took a year.

>>514418595Why is that your biggest gripe, user? I actually wholeheartedly agree with you, but I lack the ability to verbalize why. Help me out here.

>>514418324I thought that was all story driven stuff so I don't mind, Ellie not caring about the Halloween store, not even a single comment in the arcade, I thought that was better character development than Abby fucking Owen and him not even mentioning why her neck looks like it had a noose around it.

>>514417005ah so traversal and long distance running?

>>514418502>Except characters emerge commonly during storyboarding.In film school, yeah. Out in the open your hands are tied when it comes to changes like those late into the process.>Character foundation (especially in group projects) needs to be a solid base to work withI suppose by character foundation you mean the story outline. And yes that's need to be set in stone before you hand it to the writer's room, hence my argument that Druckmann did in fact come up with Joel (and not the secondary writers who came aboard later on).

>>514418353If you think what makes something political is that the writer sat down and decided "I am going to craft my game with the intent of communicating a specific political message" you're a retard.

>>514413726>In the LTOU2 not only do what they retcon lot of things from LTOUOh, right. I think it also retconned Marlene into being a force of good, rather than the cold and calculating bitch she was in the first game. And the Mengele doctor is of course completely great because his own daughter would also be totally okay with being on that death sentence-operating table, and think of all the lives they're going to save, and people have died for less than this! And he saved a zebra.Cure or not, Joel did the right thing. I still consider the finale of TLOU to be one of the greatest justified murder sprees in the entire medium of storytelling.

>>514418539I didn't feel like people talked about anything in this game.All this drama is about Abby's childhood trauma, but Lev just killed his own mother and he has zero dialogue about that. It's like is he a character or just a plot pointThere was no introspection after what happened in Seattle (20 hours of gametime) , because the game just cuts to black and skips a year.

>>514418912Were you responding to someone else? What you just said had nothing to do with my post. I'm still waiting for my political deconstruction of Shaq Fu. I got all night, partner.

>>514418978It'a not a retcon to reveal more of the story that changes how you view it, you faggot.

>>514418978>Joel did the right thingwhat did the final moments of the game mean for you? The conversation with Elle?

>>514415769I think you've posted this before in another thread. You're still incredibly dumb.

>>514418059Dungeon represents your mom's huge vagina

>>514418752Jesus. Did you two even play the first game? You can see it in her face. She never believed him.

is it not supposed to be ellie remebering her promise to Joel to work through their relationship now that she knows the truth of her survival? she's hurt by joel's choice not being her own but regardless she wants to mend things. abby took away that opportunity from her. it's actually a great scene to end on.

>>514419063You can't cure a fungal infection with a fucking vaccine. That's not how it works, at least not in real life. Which I presume to be the science that's at work in the world of TLOU since it tries so damn hard to be realistic.

>>514418978>CureThis is something that bothered me. Why was everyone talking about a "cure" instead of a vaccine. You're not going to fucking cure Clickers.

>>514415628>The game does try to make it seem like Joel doomed everyone and gives no counter arguments against the fireflies which were obviously present in the first game.It doesn't. Do you ever wonder why the subject of vaccine is never brought up in regards to what happened to Joel? It's because his death came as a result of private vengeance. A potential cure in an apocalyptic world would be a massive topic that would dominate lesser media but here it gets completely sidelined.And even though the cure is completely inconsequential to the plot of this game, you can still go ahead and show me those "obvious counter arguments". Just please, don't embarrass yourself by posting the recorder.

>>514419138I think she believed him enough for a while but was never 100% convinced. Maybe like 70%. It wasn't until she grew up a little that she started asking herself more and more questions about that day.

>>514419220So that was your take away with the final moments of the game? Holy shit Joel is an interesting character.

>>514406834What Joel exchanged for coffee? Serious question

>>514416949Was Witcher bad?

>>514419037I haven't played Shaq Fu, but let's just skip all this bullshit and get right to the end. We have different definitions of what "political" means and you're going to call me a retard and laugh at me.

>>514419407probably his playgirl or something key like bullets or guns.

>>514418752Playing as Ellie we're just simply under the impression the character doesn't know why Abby killed Joel, what Joel could've possibly done to have been tortured to death, I admit overkill, but then after going on this journey watching her turn mad, even using his techniques to get info/kill they just go and tell you she knew all along Joel was a monster..So for those 3 chapters with Ellie she literally goes on no character growth because she knew all along, the only character changes were her getting quieter and quieter which I did think was a nice touch, but yeah they fucked that bit up.

>>514419149It would be if Neil didn't want us to relate to Abby just as much as we relate to Ellie. Which, given the public outcry from everyone online, it seems like no one relates to Abby on that level. If your idea of the ending is true, then the Abby half of the game serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

>>514419138She knows but she never knows that he killed the fireflies off and they "potentially" had the cure.

>>514419174I don't know what this has to do with retcons, but who cares? The appeal of the story isn't about how scientifically accurate it is, or how it depicts vaccines. Meet the game halfway and enjoy what it has to offer.

>>514419149Why exactly is this more effective at the end than at the beginning ?

>>514419454I was already laughing at you the moment you made the blanket statement that games are political. My advice: play more games.

These threads always fascinate me. I think the writing is utter shit but not for the idiotic reasons listed.

>>514419479Why did he say it was shameful then?

>>514419789playgirl because porn is always taboo to older men and guns or bullets because it seems so wasteful considering how important they are. Just my guesses.

>>514419642The issue isn't that I haven't played a lot of games (I have), the issue is that you think "political" is some guy sitting down and saying "I'm going to make a game about the political implications of transhumanism" or something. Depicting culture or how human beings act is political, but you don't agree with that, so you think I must not have played Deus Ex or Devil May Cry or whatever.

>>514419516Ahh, I see now. Ellie really didn't learn anything the whole time. It wasn't until the last moment with Abby that she stopped killing, but at that point it was too late. She had already lost too much of herself. The problem with that is if she just took a moment to relax, take a breath, and ponder about Joel and what he meant to her, she could have avoided a hell of a lot of trouble for herself. There was no turning point for her to change her mind at the end since she already knew everything from the beginning. Like you said, no character development. It really was all just misery for misery's sake.

>>514419953To be honest I think he means it has a political agenda not its political as all 'art is'.

>>514419414God awful, except for the episode 3 where almost all the side story stuff is cut and its just Geralt hunting a Striga.

>in The Last Jedi a character who hates slave owners chose to free the animals instead of the slaves>In The Last of Us 2 a character kills everyone even remotely related to the murder of her father figure, except the one directly responsable for itWhich one is dumber?

>>514419603Have you heard of suspension of disbelief? It tends to vary from person to person, but when a """realistic""" story can't get basic science right, I tend to tune out. Even if they did make a cure, there was no way in hell the Fireflies could manufacture and distribute enough of it for all of America. Joel didn't doom the world at the end of TLOU1. It was already doomed. But there is a chance that people can rebuild and learn to live with the virus in some way.

>>514419770What reasons, then?

>>514420185>"""realistic""" storyAnon in what world does 1 man murder hundreds of people?

>>514420185I have heard of suspension of disbelief. It's a shame if you can't enjoy the moments of profound tenderness between Joel and Ellie and how heartbreaking their final conversation was because you don't like how it depicts vaccines. I don't find the science particularly convincing either, but I managed to look past it because it's clearly just framing which is why it's so crass and it only spends five seconds explaining it.

>>514419930I think you have me confused with someone else. Nonetheless, human nature isn't inherently dictated by politics. Therefore, stories aren't inherently political, let alone video games. Some things just exist because some people thought it would be cool to make them. No ulterior motive involved beyond that.

>Brings salt to the wound of people who dislike the game>Cries when said people threaten himWas he always this retarded? If you don't want threats stop fucking posting things about mocking the haters, specially for the sake of your employees

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>>514407952>The only explanations is they see Joel as a bad guy and thought the players would eventually side with Abby.Literally every character in the game who brings it up says they would do the same thing Joel did if it was their kid. Even the doctor Joel kills is moved by that argument when Marlene says it to him "what if it was your daughter"? Joel's portrayed as a fucking saint. The whole game is Ellie being racked with guilt that she made Joel miserable by ignoring him and not having a relationship with him those final 2 years of his life. It literally causes her to destroy her relationship with homelife with Dina and the baby at the end. Fuck you nigger

>>514420516>Nonetheless, human nature isn't inherently dictated by politics.Do you think everyone has the same opinion on what human nature is, and Neil Druckmann can directly put human nature into his characterization?

>>514407371SLASH FUCKING THREAD.

>>514415769With the exception of Ellie hating Joel you are correct. I'm pretty sure this is by accident.

>>514411280>NOOO YOU CANT HAVE JUST UNDERSTOOD THE DETAILS OF THE WORLD

>>514420267Ill throw out one that really bothers me. We all know how blunt and shallow the story it but its at its worse in flashbacks and dealing with previous chracters. We know Joel has soften up from the first few frames and his demanor yet the game throws this guitar scene to hammer you over the head with it. Owen is just absurdly obviously a father stand in from his design to his similar speech pattern. The constant use of nightmares are useless as everyone already knows Abby feels bad for what she did yet we get several in addition to dialogue stating this. The writing as a whole contradicts itself even in its pretentiousness due to its hand holding.

>>514420356Look up "Luis Garavito".>>514420483Joel and Ellie's relationship was great, but people who say Joel made a mistake at the end of TLOU1 are wrong. There was a lot less weight to what he did because the Fireflies' plan was never going to work out. So for me, the ending of that game is a hell of a lot weaker than people think it is.

>>514420914>Joel and Ellie's relationship was great, but people who say Joel made a mistake at the end of TLOU1 are wrong. There was a lot less weight to what he did because the Fireflies' plan was never going to work out. So for me, the ending of that game is a hell of a lot weaker than people think it is.The Fireflies could produce a vaccine because the writers were trying to make it dramatic. It doesn't matter if the details of the world suggest otherwise. Just go with it and enjoy the story.

>>514420914>Luis Garavito".already know about him killing children isn't the same as Joel BTFO a militia and bandits.

>>514420635Of course no one has the same opinion on human nature. I think Neil Druckmann is biased toward negative emotion and chooses to ignore positive things in life and people as much as he can. People are a lot better than he seems to think they are, otherwise TLOU2's story would have turned out a lot differently.

>>514421115Okay, so what you're saying is that the world of The Last of Us is to some degree informed by Neil Druckmann's view of the world--that is to say--his politics.

>>514420554>salt to the woundOh grow up you baby

>>514421202As is all art ever made, yes.

>>514420356Look up the white death.

>>514421556Okay, so all stories in which there are humans and they have to make choices that speak to their nature are political.

>>514421001>Just turn your brain off!I would if the story didn't take itself so damn seriously. If this were Transformers or Fast and Furious, I would have left my brain back home before arriving at the theater. But it's not, or at least it isn't trying to be.>>514421032Most adults retain their childhood mindsets. There is little to separate the two beyond age and physicality.>>514421202Neil's story is informed by his world view: yes. That isn't the same thing as politics.pol·i·tics/ˈpäləˌtiks/NounThe activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.How's that political essay on Shaq Fu coming along?

>>514421594>a sniper is the same as face to face combat I mean maybe in canon Joel just hides in a tower we don't have access to then yeah but the gameplay states otherwise.

>>514421701>Most adults retain their childhood mindsets. There is little to separate the two beyond age and physicality.he killed them one by one and they didn't have weapons or adult strength. Compare that with constant gun fights.

>>514407543Actually kill yourself.Epic frog meme FTW! xD

>>514421701>I would if the story didn't take itself so damn seriously. If this were Transformers or Fast and Furious, I would have left my brain back home before arriving at the theater. But it's not, or at least it isn't trying to be.I understand, but it's not a huge issue and it's not that hard to look past it.>>514421701I know dude. I've had this argument so many times before. I know common definitions of political refer to governments and policies and shit. I get it. I understand that you don't want to concede definitions to cultural Marxists or whatever. I'm not writing a political essay about a game I haven't played.

>>514421665No, all stories are to some degree influenced by the artist's view on the world, life, ... including politics.

Making a lesbian protag isn't political you idiots

>>514422027Right, so all stories are political.

>>514422146not him but yes. I think you mean you think it has a political agenda.

>>514412186Reminds me of J. K Rowling's bullshit

>>514421895If children can't aim a gun properly, then a lot of adults can't either. An experienced killer could do some serious damage against people like that.>>514421994So you admit that you're wrong? Maybe choose your words more carefully the next time you have this argument again.

>>514421790Canon wise you could say Joel doesn't kill that many people in TLOU1 since you can sneak around alot of them, and me personally playing on grounded I did.Even in the hospital it was cannon you only killed like 4 people, but in TLOU2 they make sure to show you that Joel killed alot more fireflies.

>>514422293>So you admit that you're wrong? Maybe choose your words more carefully the next time you have this argument again.No, I'm just using the word "political" in the same way it's used by academics and intellectuals. You're not going to accept that because "muh dictionary blah blah blah" and that's fine, but no, I do not accept that I'm wrong.

>>514413129He didn't shoot on sight, because he was trying to beat him to death, no gun needed

>>514422146Depends on what exactly you mean by political. Are Andersen's fairytales political? No, but you can easily recognize the impact Biedermeier had on him.

>>514422293>If children can't aim a gun properly, then a lot of adults can't either. An experienced killer could do some serious damage against people like that.do you think that killer took each down in a gun fight as opposed to the usual serial killer tactics?

>>514422420How about you give me your factual definition of the word "politics" then so we can speak on even terms instead of giving me the run around for another hour?>>514422464He did in my playthrough!

>>514422548Read "All Art is Propaganda" by George Orwell.

>>514407952>The only explanations is they see Joel as a bad guy and thought the players would eventually side with Abby.this is the explanationthe first game was completely recontexualised by the team after the 2016 electionJoel stopped the fireflies from overthrowing the right wing government. He became the woke anti-christ and had to die.No-one gave a shit about the fireflies before this game. TLOU fans never even thought twice about saving ellie.But for wokesters, this was life and death. Joel had stood, by action, with the forces of Trump and had to be destroyed and the whole first games message undermined and wiped clean.

Buncha dumb niggers trying to intrinsically break down the video game equivalent of Oscar bait. Cope more about your "deep and moving experience".

>>514422384i would have to replay it (my memory recalls constant references to a shiton of gun fights that are essential to the story) but considering the game is shit i dont plan to.

>>514422629That's the dumbest take in the entire thread.

>>514422609If you're seriously going to ask me to read a book, then I'm seriously going to ask you to finish your Shaq Fu essay. You can't verbalize your definition of a word? Your virtue for this topic must be a lot weaker than I gave you credit for.

>>514422548The serial killer killed them all in gun fights? How many did you kill in your playthrough?

>>514422776I think I lost count during the sniper scene. I DEFINITELY lost count in the hospital.

>>514422670Oh yeah Joel does talk about how him and Tommy did some bad things, and you certainly do have to kill people but I bet you could get through that game killing less than 20 people overall.

>>514415769amazingly dumb but interesting never the less

>>514422756It's not a book, it's an essay. I could tell you "the academic definition of political simply refers to a point of view that values and neglects particular things in the world" but it would be oversimplifying it and you'd begin whining about how it makes the useless.

>>514422846Okay in my Plath though I killed a decent amount all of which would be near impossible to survive. That in addition to copious amount of loot existing and plot convivences i would say its not realistic.

>>514422853i would test this if the game wasn't shit

>>514422995You're right, fuck The Last of Us.>>514422948My phones are charged and I got work tomorrow. Don't bother replying to me, I won't see it. :^)

Some games are political. TLOU2 is not one of those games. It's about revenge and forgiveness. Political factions exist in the game, but the themes expressed through them (extremism, isolationism) are only addressed en passant. Most Zombie stories do this, such as 28 Days Later (militarism) or Pontypool (sensationalism). At their core they're more about human nature than anything else.

>>514423262And gross lesbian sex scenes

>>514423356Which are not political.

>>514423382Didn't say they were. Just gross.

>>514420554maaaan the internet really has warped your brain

>>514423112>You're right, fuck The Last of Us.exactly the fact that some hack will have the most talked about game of a decade for the second time is depressing.

>>514422629ahahahaa everyone laugh with this retard

>>514406834To shit on Joel even more. Neil absolutely hated Joel for some reason.

Is Abby a psycho? For whatever reason after knowing these 2 scars for like 2 days, she just kill her WLF comrades like they're her sworn enemies or something.

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>>514407096>Why did the writers use a cognate of Helen for Ellie?You mean Elena?

>>514423356There is 1 lesbian sex scene and it's like a half a minute long am I missing something? It cuts to black when they kiss doesn't it?

>>514423973Yes but not that reason, she had already become distant to all her friends after they watched her torture Joel to death.Neil said there were scenes where she was stabbing him in the leg to get reactions out of him but they cut it to make her feel abit more sympathetic.

>>514406834I assumed it was so you knew their last words weren’t ones of anger