He basically killed billions

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goyim don't deserve to live

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Didn't the fireflies start the virus?


>>514403145Fungus killed billions.Joel refused to save few, if any to save one.OP is a fucking retard.Also cure / vaccine is mostly useless even if Fireflies somehow magically created it, then made it in sufficiently large quantities and managed to distribute it across US.

>>514403145absolutely based

>>514404742>Also cure / vaccine is mostly useless even if FirefliesPeople push this narrative.The authorial goal in TLOU2 is blatantly that the cure would have worked and Joel was selfish, get over it

>>514403145You mean in the sense that the ragtag group of fireflies admitted through collectibles that they found others like Ellie but upon their deaths they extracted no cure?Do you just ignore facts, like the failures that wrote the script to tlou2?Here's another fact: " billions " weren't going to survive, billions weren't even alive at this point. Fireflies proved at this point they were just grasping at straws and made ellie sound like the last ditch for survival because it was desperate-speak.Eat it up if you want, but it makes you a fucking smooth-brain who can't think for themselves.

>>514404918>narrative.>cure would have workedYeah great. Now explain how cure would magically solve gigantic crowds of fungus zombies that even military during their full might wasn't able to handle (remember that now you have few fucks with rusty machetes and amount of bullets you can count on fingers of one hand) How would it fix dwindling resources, famine, hate between Scars and W.L.F.?'Cure' is good for 2 things only, prevent spore infection (and they have masks for that) and death from bites, which is rare because if you get bitten you also usually get torn to pieces because you got overrun.

>>514404918Cure was supposed to be the ultimate justification for all the atrocities Fireflies did.After they failed, they realized their struggle is useless and they can't do anything than FEDRA and disbanded in shame.

>>514403145>>514404507>>514403307>>514404742>>514404918>>514405417>>514404993Joel did nothing wrong because you can't make a vaccine for a fungus, fireflies were retards and im glad they got killed

Why are fungus even a threat at this point? The first game didn't give me that impression at all.

>>514405927>you can't make a vaccine for a fungusShut the fuck up you absolute faggot.This specific game has a scene where it points out that fiction such as movies will take liberties to make things more simple or entertaining.Like turning velociraptor from a 3 foot tall birdlike animal to a man sized lizard beast.OR TURNING CORDYCEPS INTO SOMETHING THAT WORKS ON HUMANS AND NOT JUST BUGSFuck you daring to pretend real science has any fucking affect in this franchise

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>>514403145We dont even know if it would have worked and they literally attacked Joel first.

TLOU2 has been released and people would rather quander the decisions Joel made in the first game. What the fuck happened with TLOU2? Does it not ask any difficult questions?

To save quadrillions

>>514406242It would have worked, the game clearly frames that it would have worked. Part 2 doesn't work as a concept otherwise, that's the entire point. The cycle of revenge needs to start with a cure being sacrificed for human sentimental love

>>514406594>it would have workedSure, but it would still be mostly useless.

>>514403145Yes but the gods killed trillions.>>514403307You are a Holla Forums goy.

>>514405927>because you can't make a vaccine for a fungusYes you can. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3424352/Also you're a faggot for dragging real science into a zombie apocalypse fiction.

>>514403307honestly, this

>>514406594wrong, collectibles already proved they tried this shit before and it didn't work>the narrative doesn't make sensewell that's because it's written by a hack

>>514406594>Part 2 doesn't work as a concept otherwise, that's the entire point.Everyone agrees with this retard, not everyone agree's with the stupid retcon that it would have worked.

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>>514407116>collectibles already proved[citation needed]I see this mentioned again and again but there's nothing conclusive, only vagues shit in researcher recordings so if you could post screenshot or exact part where it's mentioned it would be great.

>>514405927they fucking repaired a 20 years old hydroelectric plant via cleaning its pieces and without actual proffesionals in the first one

>>514407116>collectiblesJesus christ that doesn't mean SHIT in terms of the actual narrative structure you geeky little shit

>>514407307>and without actual proffesionalsAre you sure about that?They lived nearby, pretty sure some might have been working as maintenance staff before the apocalypse.

>>514403145the chance of making a vaccine from 1 sample and a few scientist is extreemely low

>>514407240>>514407116I see a lot of people throwing around the "collectible items prove the cure wouldn't have worked" and yet there isn't a SINGLE screen cap or any bit of in game data used to justify this claim. If it was really true, wouldn't there be a screenshot proving it that gets posted in every thread? It's ridiculous.

>>514407301people are straight up exaggerating the firefly files just so muh joel can be completely clear of wrongdoing

>>514407301I don't have screenshots, but there's recordings from Marlene in the hospital saying they have lost inmune people attempting to use their inmunity to reverse engineer a cure, and that Ellie is their last hope.I still defend the concept of Ellie being potentially the last hope for the humanity and probably the "succesful attempt" being reinforced in the game

>>514407240Why was that dog such an asshole?

>>514403145He'd do it all over again too.


>>514403145sounds pretty based to me

>>514404918No fuck that. I have no respect for writers who are incapable of continuing their stories without retconning shit. If you have to change major aspects of your previous story to make the new one work then you shouldn't be making a sequel at all.

>>514407556>but there's recordings from Marlene in the hospital saying they have lost inmune people attempting to use their inmunity to reverse engineer a cureThere really isn't.Here's a list with all items, all recordings transcription and papers:thelastofus.fandom.comGo ahead, find the part where 'lots of immune people' is mentioned.Here's a surgeon's recording from TLOU1:thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Surgeon's_Recorder>April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen.>The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen.>The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen.

>>514408087>I have no respect for writers who are incapable of continuing their stories without retconning shit.Try naming a major franchise that does not do this

>>514407502There were other people that were immune, all died. The fireflies were also shown to be incompetent assholes throughout the whole game. Come on user it isn't that hard to think about.

>>514407556You didn't listen to those fucking recordings you heard about them from other anons and concluded that it put joel 100% in the right

>>514408270>There were other people that were immune,That was Joel's lie from TLOU1 ending.If you want to claim otherwise provide screenshot or Youtube vid where it's mentioned.

>>514408270Yet this is all just hearsay and interpretation. The game is clearly shown through Joel's eyes as a sort of quasi-narrator, whom the game forces us to realise the world through. His own suspicions about the fireflies become actualised int he psyche of the player through the game reflecting his impressions. There is no CONCRETE proof (people keep mentioning it, nobody actually shows anything) that shows they wouldn't have developed a vaccine.

>>514408270jesus christ this meme never fucking ends


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>>514407502It was a recording, but people are retarded since he clearly says at the beginning "This girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen."youtu.be/HNm4lGQMiKA?t=225

>People are actually mad that they retconned flavor text that was only looked into by hardcore fans.Do you really expect them or any fucking studio to forcefully abide by lore tidbits in the face of themes?You point to me a single fucking franchise that won't retcon unimportant lore to make a story more impactful, I'll wait

>>514408193You say that like major franchises are inherently good or well written. They usually aren't and the longer they go on for the worse the writing gets. This is especially true with video games no matter how good they started out.

>>514406594>Part 2 doesn't work as a concept otherwise, that's the entire point.You could literally replace every main and side character with some random and the story and then wouldn't change at all. Here watch. Boel Shiller, a brand new guy replaces Joel and talks about how he dun bad by his daughter (it doesn't matter that Ellie isn't blood related, thematically she takes the place of his daughter) to his brother. Explains that he had to kill a lot of people to save her, some of them might not have been bad, might have been innocent, but his rage, his wrath to save her, blinded him and made him do bad.But now his past has caught up to him, Shabby, a daughter/member of the tribe he killed has had her life ruined because of Boel Shiller, she went from a relatively safe and happy life to being thrust into a cruel and cold world without family and a handful of friends. Shes seen death, decay, ruin and all the bad shit and it has absolutely fucked her personalityShe is an instrument of rage and death, and it is all autistically focused on Boel ShillerShabby gets her revenge, Bellie hunts her down for double revenge, Shabby slowly reconnects to her humanity through Bevvy the trans kid. The game suffers more BECAUSE it's a sequel.

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>>514408747This.Go play Dark Souls if you want to spend hours reading a bunch of irrelevant text. TLOU is about atmosphere and feeling, the fact they even have these recordings at all is just their way of pandering to their problematic gamer audience, which I hope they realise they're better off without soon.

>>514408610>April 28th. Marlene was right.>The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. >The cause of her immunity is uncertain.>As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. >Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. >There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.>As we've seen in all past casesThis is surgeon talking about other INFECTED they observed, not immune.Read the whole text or listen to whole recording.Are you faggots incapable of parsing English?

>>514408584Heaven's Feel Shirou maybe but even then he didn't actually kill anyone who wasn't a Servant or already dying (Kotomine).

Makes sense to me. He's been fighting off bandits and raiders for 20 years and is probably more tired of humans than the infected at that point. Fuck the rest of mankind, it's got nothing he wants.

>>514409108>He's been fighting off bandits and raiders for 20 yearsExcept for the parts where he was a raider and bandit.

>>514409029They literally heard this shit from other anons and passed it along insisting rather than checking the original source.As if the story would have to stick to that tiny insiginificant shit in the first place

>>514408465Come on, they were fighting a losing war with the government for some retarded reason. They got multiple safe zones destroyed and infected and lost one of their big bases to some monkeys. At the end of the game they treat Joel like shit and debate killing him because he knows their location. They have Ellie for like 5 minutes tops and the first thing Josef Mengele does is try to rip out her brain because her infection doesn't look the same as the other cases. "This one looks different, get the brain ripper" doesn't sound very scientific or competent to me.

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>>514403145>End your DNA lineage millions of years in the making to save people from a disease>End your DNA lineage millions of years in the making to exclusively have sex with your own sex. Only one of these is good.

>>514409170survival of the fittest baby

>>514406235No, fuck YOU faggot. I'm not going to take your "moral dilemma" seriously when it's in ignorance of highschool level science. There is absolutely no way that cutting out someone's brain can help you make a vaccine.

>>514408747I do when they pride themselves on their realistic and grounded storytelling. If they want me to take this shit as deathly seriously as they seem to then I'm going to hold it to a higher standard. The shit that they changed wasn't even necessary to make the story work, a throwaway line about a major increase in infected and areas lost to spores would be more than enough to cast a more negative light on Joel's choice without having to fuck up the last game. Plus there's shit like the bank robbers which are totally superfluous and yet totally at odds with information presented to us in the last game. It's just fucking lazy and is a prime example of why these people are awful writers. If you can't be bothered to keep your own story straight in the first attempt at a sequel then why the hell should I bother getting invested?

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>>514409170So? It's ok when I do it, it's never ok when other people do it.

>>514406235>her durr the game explains its retarded shitI bet you think Kojima came up with Quiet's backstory BEFORE her looks too... right

>>514409519Well he certainly didn't spend much time with the design, giving her a horse face and all

>>514409519shut up, Kojima isn't a hack unlike this cuckmann guy, he knew what people's reactions would have been, so yes, he did come up with the backstory first.


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What the fuck are you brainlets on about? This is not a debate. It comes out of Joel's own fucking mouth. "To make a vaccine..." full stop. It doesn't matter what you fantasized. He made a horrorfyingly selfish move.

>>514409441>ignorance of highschool level scienceDinosaurs looking like birds is taught in primary school, yet one of the greatest films created ignores this. The game points this outCordyceps zombifies insects and only insects, you can learn all about this in a 2 minute youtube clip. But no you draw the line at a vaccine for a fungus? Which is less of a middle finger to science than both of these things

>>514409778>shut up, Kojima isn't a hackStopped reading there

>>514409519Considering we see Quiet in the hospital fully decked out in combat gear, he clearly did.

>>514408087They didn't change anything from the first one, that was always the intention, it was always a contrived trolley problem.

>>514409843Joel read Kant as a young man and defined his morals.

>hey here's this person that's completely "immune">by god lets get tocutting her up>shouldn't we do some more tests firsts sir?>nah fuck that gay shit grab the sawI'm pretty sure it wouldn't have worked

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>>514409843>He made a horrorfyingly selfish move.Nothing wrong with that, just human nature

What did the fireflies accomplish exactly? America is gone, there's no democracy to be saved anymore because civilization doesn't exist outside of FEDRA camps. All they do is fight against what is left of said FEDRA, which is pretty much a bunch of average Joes enlisted in an attempt to trying to survive and keep what is left of humanity safe. Their biggest accomplishment is triggering the Pittsburgh riots which turned the whole city into a slaughterhouse and got everyone killed.

>>514410212If there is nothing wrong with that then what the fuck is your problem with part 2?

>vaccine not a curenope.Ever see a clicker bite the fuck out of a survivor, they'd probably fucking die even if they were immune to the spores.Also, how the fuck do you make a vaccine for spores?Doesn't make any fucking sense.

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>>514409848The "dinosaurs" in the park were genetically modified monsters, not real dinosaurs, that was the point of the first movie and the michael crichton novels. But I'm not talking about making a fungal vaccine, which is at least plausible, but needing to cut out somebody's brain to make a vaccine, which doesn't even begin to make sense.

>>514410260You really think stories are bound 100% by limitations like that as if Last of us does not break several physical limits of the real world in order to tell a story.I'm not talking about unicorns here, i'm talkng about harmless contrivances like a fungal vaccine or quick distribution of it.Spiderman on PS4 did the latter and no one bitched. No one.It's all just a fucking cloak due to muh joel

>>514409843The fireflies wouldn't have been able to effectively use or distribute a perfect vaccine if it fell in their laps, but they couldn't even produce one.

>>514410143pretty much this.it would take tens if not hundreds of test subjects for any progress to be made.The only may to make more progress with a single subject would be with examining her DNA, which would only require a few blood samples. Nothing that would actually hurt her.

>>514404742>one of the greatest films ignores thisThats probably for the best user

>Fireflies tried the shit they wanted to do on Ellie numerous times with other people>it never fucking worked>Fuckman retcons that>"Nah Fireflies didin do nuffin! Joel's a white devil! This cool and perfect waifu I made is the real hero!"I can't believe he's getting away with this shit.

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>>514410271I never said I had a problem with part 2

>>514410443A fungal vaccine is a harmless contrivance. Needing to cut out a patient's brain to make it, and somehow mass producing and distributing it, are two enormous fucking contrivances.

>>514410362Jurassic park doesn't point it out nearly well enough since the average person thinks that a Velocirapor looks how it does in movies, look at Joel.If that's acceptable it should also be acceptable that writers are not doctors or scientists and will take scientific liberties in order to tell a story. And in this story removing the fungus was necessary to get the work done. It's all about how the writer is framing it and how the pieces fall together afterward.

>>514410557He didn't retcon anything. Those people weren't actually immune like Ellie. Did you take Joel's lie at the end of the first game at face value?

>>514410592Hell I could even forgive that retardation if they had waited at least a day or two, but they decide to do that shit within hours of her arrival it's ridiculous.

>>514410557>Fireflies tried the shit they wanted to do on Ellie numerous times with other peopleLITERALLY a fucking meme

literally doesnt matter, abby didnt do it for any reason at all period other than he killed her dad

>>514410656>If that's acceptable it should also be acceptable that writers are not doctors or scientists and will take scientific liberties in order to tell a story.There are limits to that liberty, which is completely overstepped by saying you need to cut out someone's brain to make a vaccine.

Very little of what we see of humanity in the world of TLoU is worth saving. Joel knows this. To him, Ellie is the only person left in the world worth saving.

>>514410680I need to draw attention to this fucking point because it is fucking CRUCIALThe firefly files say they tested on INFECTED PEOPLE, not IMMUNE PEOPLEYou see CLEARLY in TLOU2 when the Doctor saves the Zebra that he is shocked that immune people even exist, this "they killed other immune people" shit isn't fucking canon

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>>514410747The really bad contrivance is having Ellie and Joel just happen to be unconscious when they're brought into the hospital. The entire moral dilemma as it played out required Ellie to have almost drowned within walking distance of the hospital.

>>514404918Good thing part 2 isn't canon

>>514410919That doesn't change that cutting out ellie's brain was the most retarded fucking thing they could possibly do.

>>514403145He deserved everything that happened in tlou2, just look at that bitch face he's making

>vaccine >fungus

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>>514409848>one of the greatest films created ignored thisto be fair it's an old movie, feathered dinosaurs are relatively new

>>514410656The problem is we have no reason to trust that the Fireflies are capable of this. Their numbers are already dwindling, they spend the whole game getting killed or doing stupid shit but we're supposed to believe the dumbshits who let their own lab be overrun by test monkeys can make a working vaccine with hours of observing their first immune subject ever? It's just too much for the audience to accept given everything else we see in the game. Not only that but the idea of it being a moral choice also doesn't work because the Fireflies themselves are not good people, there is no reason whatsoever to think they would be completely altruistic with a supposed vaccine that they have complete control over.


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>billionsremind me, how many people are still alive and not infected?vaccines PREVENT disease from occuring in first place, they do not cure existing symptoms

Poor Arthur

>>514410557>first game: utilitarianism is evil>second game: wait a minute I changed my mind...

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>>514411009Plus it just serves to make the Fireflies look even more stupid and aggro because they knock a man unconscious while he's clearly trying to resuscitate the little girl that he was being paid to deliver to them. Those retards could have easily gotten Ellie killed before she even got in to the hospital.

>>514411153literally thisthey're basically all fanatics at this point and theres almost no reason for Joel to believe they can make a vaccine other than they tell him that they can, and they've already established themselves as an untrustworthy faction in the game early on

>>514411287Well yeah... that's why it's part 2, he wasn't done telling what he wanted with just the first part

>>514411106>Cordyceps>Infecting humans>DNA>Surviving Amber fossilizationYou dont care about shit like this stop fucking larpiing

>>514411413It's just baffling. They spend the entire game showing you how incompetent these people are and multiple piles of corpses that are monuments to their innumerable failures and yet they somehow expect us to believe they'll finally be successful for once when facing the what is probably the most difficult task they've ever taken on. It's just asinine.

>>514411134The first known feathered Dinosaur. The jurassic period Archaeopteryx lithographica, was discovered in 1861. Over 150 years ago.If Jurassic Park gets to shit on the science why is The Last of Us forced to abide by the far less glaring changes?

>>514411238pretty sure the lore says 60% of the population died from the fungus, so about 2.8 billion people

>>514411720Cutting out somebody's brain to make a vaccine is much, much more retarded.

>>514403145Did he? Explain me how do you research immunity with a full autopsy?That doctor was a hack and he did well blowing him up.

>>514406245No it doesn't, and part of the sequel is hammering in that Joel made a bad decision in the first game, rather than leaving it nuanced and ambigious and letting the audience decide.So now TLOU2 shills are re-writing history to fit the new games narrative, and dragging Joel through the mud to justify Abby's motivations.

>>514412113Frankly the gray area from the first game is not necessary anymore. The decision has been made official on who was right between Joel and the fireflies, this is fine now that the gray area has evolved to being about ellie and abby

>>514412113this. imo joel did the right thing. all that we see in the first game outside of tommy's group are bandits, cannibals, or cultists that poison every last child in their community.

>Fireflies were incompetent in Boston because they couldn't get shit done and had to resort to asking Joel and Tess for help>Fireflies in Colorado at the university were incompetent because some retard played with infected monkeys instead of putting them down like ordered to>Fireflies in Salt Lake were incompetent because they refused to do any tests on Ellie first besides a single MRI (as opposed to her bloodwork, CAT scans, and more) and hold her for a few weeks to see what they could do and jumped right to needing to cut her dome open>Fireflies can't stop a single man from BTFO'ing them on their own turf>implying there are "billions" of humans left on the planet>implying the world would ever return back to the way it was>implying a cure would solve anything when packs of runners will beat you to death and eat you, Clickers will bite your throat out, Bloaters will rip your skull open, bandits will shoot and rape>implying Joel did anything wrong by saving the life of the one person he truly loved as his own child from a bunch of retarded idealists who were going to "make a cure" twenty years too late>implying the cure would have amounted to literally anythingAll the faggots saying Joel was wrong need to commit sudoku right now. Druckmann didn't write the first game by himself. He hijacked this game after pushing people like Amy out of the company and the quality of the writing being shit shows.Lastly:FUCK TRANNIESFUCK JEWSFUCK NIGGERS

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>>514412679>implying a cure would solve anything when packs of runners will beat you to death and eat you, Clickers will bite your throat out, Bloaters will rip your skull open, bandits will shoot and rapeThis is such a particularly shitty point, you might as well argue that society couldn't form in a world where there are sabertooth tigers

>>514412679The Fireflies never paid Joel for his service either. Instead they took all of his weapons and supplies and told him to fuck off.

>>514412679yo i know the black guy is edited in but its fucked up they trained the cat to do that

>>51441267960% of 8 billion means at least 2 billion are left learn math retard

>>514412936Except I don't need a vaccine for a Sabretooth tiger. I need a weapon. Infection of cordyceps kills two people out of hundreds in TLOU 1 and then it kills one person out of hundreds in TLOU 2. Seethe.>>514412970Also this.>>514413148The cat is a person in a suit green screened in, tard. Either you're retarded or baiting, and if this is bait, I'm proud of you.

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>>514406245People are pissed that the inciting incident of the sequel is the death of a central character from the original; despite it being a clear and ever-present consequence for their morally-questionable actions in the ending for the first game.The sequel wants you consider the other side of those morally-questionable events as people in their own right also trying to cope physically and emotionally with their bleak post-apocalyptic situation.The problem is that in order to do this (the interesting and understandable sequel direction) you end up *necessarily* undermining the cathartic murder-spree to 'happy' ending of the original.Most people are too oblivious or invested enough to realise this is unavoidable and the structuring of the narrative itself could've been better but the main gist is that people are pissed their 'hero' didn't go out like the champ they thought he was and instead goes like any normal person might in this particular post-apocalypse.

>>514403145Stop spamming these fucking TLOU threads. Fucking garbage game.

>>514412936Anon there aren't 6 billion saber-tooth tigers actively hunting specifically people

>>514412470The gray area is the whole reason why people liked that ending. Why would they want to totally invalidate their strongest moment in the story? It just makes the weight of anything in the sequel disappear because there's no reason to think they won't just fuck with it again. The ending of the sequel is ostensibly worthless since ND can just pretend the parts they don't like anymore didn't happen if they decide to revisit it later.

>>514413210The highest priority is keeping people safe from zombies, after that it is making safe people immune.After that Zombies are no more of a threat than any other predator. And we would have a head start on rebuilding unlike cavemen

>>514413206With the fact that major metropolitan centers in America (Boston) are taken over by rogue factions made up of less than five thousand people, I don't think there's two billion people left alive. 60% of the population was infected and much of it was bombed to shit by various militaries if the US's story is anything to use as a point of reference. Also the game takes place twenty years AFTER 60% was infected. Then, people were sent out of quarantine zones, people were murdered by bandits and remaining infected. It's very unlikely there's more than a billion people left in the world. Especially since limited resources in places like China and India among gigantic billions of people would absolutely result in massive amounts of deaths.

>>514409848>Dinosaurs looking like birds is taught in primary schoolyeah if you went to faggot school lolreal ass dinosaurs have scales

>>514413287That's just what they want you to think.

>>514413464I would argue that a pack of zombies is more likely to kill ten people than a single bear or a pack of wolves which are the apex predators of the North American continent besides mountain lions.

>>514413287You are aware that Sabertooth tigers were an entire species right?

>>514413723And they went extinct because they were too beta to survive nature. Weaker than the species that ultimately became human beings. Alligators outlasted them. Fucking. Alligators.

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>>514413848what are you even arguing faggot

>>514413464At this point in the story zombies outnumber people 3 to 1 and are basically everywhere while spreading more and more spores. The dirty truth of the Last of Us is that the world and humanity are already done for. That level of infection is too large to ever combat even with a cure that realistically would never reach anyone outside of the Fireflies even if they could make it. Unless things are wildly different in other countries humans in that world will likely end up near extinction in a few generations at best.

>>514413904They were so weak and so little of a threat to humanity that they went extinct while humanchads and gatorchads kept going, bitch boy.

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>humanity gets btfo by a literal mushroomthey don't deserve to be saved.

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>>514404918Neil bent the story so hard it broke to make that stupid cure shit look feasible

>>514411106>pretending to be smart>be retardedncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3424352/

>>514408270Yeah they were pretty much a bunch of played straight terrorists who made and already shitty world even shittier and desperately wanted to be the saviors of a dying world

>>514403145This might surprise you, but it's actually Cordyceps and human infighting that is killing billions. Not Joel

>>514414201He didn't break the story, he arguably broke the lore, which doesn't fucking matter


>>514407606It's a Chihuahua? They're evil on the genetic level

>>514414483If you could press a button that would instantly crate world peace and end war and refuse to press it you are literally a murderer by proxy.You chose to allow death to happen when you had the power to stop it. The power to fucking save lives

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>>514414526Well he broke his production staff

>>514404918The author is a faggot. Hundreds of people worked together to make the first game what it was and Neil ended up making most of them leave either intentionally or through crunch. Why should I give a fuck about the story he wants to tell when most of the people who made the first one great don't even work there anymore?

You, your family, and everyone you love is dead in this universe because one guy couldn't let go

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>>514412936>This is such a particularly shitty point,Yet you can't argue against it for shit.Cure is good for 2 things only, protection from spores (they have masks for that) and surviving bites.So useless in a world that's ruled by gigantic crowds of roaming zombies that former military with all of it's might still intact couldn't handle.Now you have bunch of savages with rusty pieces of metal for weapons and handful of bullets.And there's famine, lack of resources, bandits, other diseases, cults and all that other shit that will kill you.

>>514414660>lame analogyvaccine won't safe their fucked up world on its own and those who humans who stop murdering each other do pretty well (Jackson). The whole thing is a false dichotomy.

>>514414526>World building doesn't matter if it gets in the way of the storyThen why have it at all dumbass? How fucking hard do you plan to reach to defend this hunk of crap?

>>514414660What an absurdly reductive and disingenuous comparison.

>>514414872>>>OH NO THE WORLD IS COATED IN BEARS AND TIGERS AND DINOSAURS AND ALL KINDS OF FUCKERY HOW COULD WE MAKE SOCIETY?Fuck you. The world we came from is far more dangerous than the one in TLOU2

>>514413206>60% of 8 billion meansFrom what orifice did you pull the 60%?Also after 20+ years of hunger, diseases, looting and mutual mass murdering of survivors there's surely 2 billion left you fucking retard.

>>514415071So you still can't come up with proper counter argument?Concession accepted.

>>514415097This user misremembered. More than 60% of the world is dead.vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/thelastofus/images/8/88/Newspaper_Clipping.png/revision/latest?cb=20130705062539

>>514403145Arthur Morgan killed a lot of people but billions seems like a lot for one man with a gun.

>>514415071>What if the vast majority of the human population turned in to vicious monsters?>But bears thoughAre you legitimately fucking retarded?

>>514414916>>514414989Let me explain this again since it goes over your headsIf you could end all rapes, murders, bombings, robberies with the press of a button and refuse you are responsible for it. The same way you are responsible for any other potential harm caused to others by inaction.You see someone walking into traffic and you can stop them? You stop them. That's human. We aren't robots.Joel decided. DECIDED, that one life is worth the potential millions of lives that could be saved.Sometimes you need put selfishness aside and look at what you are doing, that was the real point of his journey. He failed so the narrative in TLOU2 punishes him. It's storytelling 101

>>514415464There are tons of creatures that would kill us but they can't because we are smarter and have built society. How are zombies different once there is a cure? They are just carnivores then. And like all carnivores we can make fences and guns

>>514403145Kind of but logistically it'd be a nightmare to manufacture and distribute the vaccine en masse. Especially since there weren't that many fireflies active and they weren't on friendly terms with Fedra.

>>514403145Never killed anyone that didn't deserve it in the events of the games.

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>>514415882>Did you kill innocent people>...>I'll take that as a yes

>>514415975>in the events of the games

>>514414660>dude why aren't you for the greater good don't you care about humanity?I only care for friends and family and while i can empathize with someone who lost their life unjustly I won't lose any sleep over it

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>>514415479>responsibilitynope. that's not how ethics work. sorry

>>514415479Too bad your button doesn't exist for me not to push it, and even if it did i would rather push the one that ended 60% of human life for the good of the planet and humanity since it would get rid of a lot of mouth to feed

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>>514415479Except the button in the case of TLOU does none of that and makes something already very easily avoidable, entirely avoidable instead.Not worth the effort or sacrifice

>>514404918yes and that goal isn't supported by anything which is why 2 is fucking shit you tardthere was literally no reason to believe the vaccine was worth it and humanity even deserving of it

>>514416253Based Mongolian biker.

>>514410502>>514410143I know you're memeing but no one would've cared about the first game otherwise if not for its ending and how it's justified. It's a only a bleak dramatically tragic ending if the goal of the journey was never possible in the first place. Whether because of the characters themselves (Joel) or the cure ends up ineffective regardless; Ellie's life had to be threatened and in conflict with the original goal (cure) for us to care about and justify the story as a whole. The sequel just forces players to try and reconcile that further, of course its not gonna feel the exact same.

>>514406594>, the game clearly frames that it would have workedno it doesn't lmao, the game does no such thing

>>514406594>Part 2 doesn't work as a concept otherwise,hence why 2 is fucking trash

>>514406594>The cycle of revenge needs to start with a cure being sacrificed for human sentimental lovenothing of what Joel does there is motivated by revenge at all. No idea how it relates to a "cycle of revenge". If anything it starts with Abby and it is a very short cycle of revenge. It would've been even shorter if she just killed off Ellie + Tommy.Moral of the story: kill your enemies. Leave non alive.

>>514406594Part 2 is an afterthought probably after the success of the first game, otherwise the NPC you kill in TLOU1 wouldn't look so different compared to Abby's dad.

>>514405721The Fireflies are still alive. The game ends with the menu showing Abby reached the outpost she discovered at the end of the game. There will be a Part 3 where Lev happens to be immune and they want to kill him next.

>>514403145The more I see these threads the more I actually get annoyed at people who pretend that cure is the key to humanity's salvation when everything we see in the sequel shows the oppositeIn the second game, we see at least two huge walled human settlements. These things have fuckin ELECTRICITY, running water, farms, ranches, parks for kids to play in, bar and cafeterias, and even a goddamn indoor gym. Since the first game, in the span of only 5 years, humanity has moved forward with or without a cureAs far as the zombies go, they are literally less dangerous than predators our cavemen ancestors had to deal with when they ddn't walled cities or firearms. Only Stalker really behave like hunters, clickers and whatnot will run at their prey while making a fuckton of noise. Plus, these things can't reproduce! The only way for them to make more infected if for them to bite someone but for the human to then escape; but most of the time they'll tear the prey to shreds!As long as the settlements send hunting parties to clear out infected, these things will slowly die out while humans keep on reproducing.You got the spores to deal but these things die under direct sunlight so literally just fence off the areas where you know spores propagate and put a warning sign and there's your spores problem fixed!Then there's the Cure dilemma. Let's be super generous and pretend the big brained doctors can get this cure out of Ellie. Can you imagine the logistics of mass producing and distributing that stuff all over post-apocalyptic US? The story happens in the East Coast right? By the time this miracle cure reaches the East coast they'l have gotten so efficient at establishing ways to deal with infected and spore-filled areas that the cure will be irrelevant to them.Plus this cure can only really be administered to people who just inhale spores or escaped a bite. There's no "curing" an the infected with shrooms growing out of their heads or who've be torn to shreds

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>>514419131>revenge plot, cycle of violence.It's not about that and neither was the original. It's about failing to let go/moving on. This is largely why Joel does what he does, he can't let go of his first daughter. Ellie almost does the same when she can't let go of Joel until she finally realises what she thought would be 'revenge' won't actually make her feel any better.Even Abby decides it's not worth killing the other characters and her 'revenge' wasn't really planned out either. Ellie on the other hand goes out of her way ignoring Tommy and leaving Dina.>Moral of the story: kill your enemies, leave non alivemore like don't spontaneously kill people when you don't really need to.

>>514421324Literally the only reason any of those conflicts exist is because of the infected you dumb fuck. That's why they need the cure

>>514421435>I am a warlord cannibal! I feasted on the children of weaker tribes! I take what I want and rape who I want!>oh wow a cure, Ill go back to my job at accounting for PNC Bank, which building is it? The one that got bombed or the one that is in the ground?

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Can anyone explain to me how it would have worked if Joel left her in The hospital?

>>514421435can't say that on a Christian website

>>514421428by "original" I meant to say Abbie's motivation vs Ellie's. They're both thought of as revenge motivated when it's really not productive for either of them.

>>514421787>Fireflies open her skull>they find nothing of note>they find something of note but like any real vaccine they need more data>they find everything>then they gett attacked by a horde and lose data>then they get attacked by people and lose data>then they make a vaccine>it doesn't work as well>it works well>they now need all the supplies to make it for everyone>all the while not getting their shit pushed in>assuming they just GIVE it out>not for blackmail or barteringThats just a little.

>>514421750Literally all of those people are fucking LarpingIsaac was probably a butterfly farmer or something before the apocalypse

>>514422031this user fucking gets it

>>514421435How is the cure going to stop the WLF and Scars from doing what they're doing now? These para-military groups rose up because of the chaos caused by colapse of civilisation. They're not going to give up their fuckin power because there's a cure you can inject on people who have just recently inhaled spores or come back from hunting infected with a bit.You've got millions of infected for which there's no going back. Preventions are preferable to cures and there's no better prevention method than walled settlement as we see. At this point, the cure is a bandaid

>>514422373The disease is the reason those factions exist, if a cure were created they would lose all purpose and have to adapt back to modern life like anyone else or risk going to prison

>>514422712Does the cure just create the government, laws, police to enforce said laws, elections, jobs, institutions? Jesus fuck you are dumb.

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>>514423029You do realize all of those were destroyed by the disease right? The disease is obviously the problem, getting rid of it is the solution to that problem

>>514422712>or risk going to prisonWhat government is left that has the power to send a thousand-strong groups of armed military to fuckin PRISON!?!How the fuck are people STILL being infected en masse when all large groups that have survived up to this point live in walled settlements?

>>514403145Are there any, how do I put this, uhm, sexy scenes with Joel in TLOU2? They don't have to be intentionally hot but just scenes where he looks nice. Especially ass shots.

>>514423179The SUDDEN appearance and mass spread of infection caused the government collapse because it could not understand what they were dealing with and react quick enough!The shroom is no longer sudden, no longer spreads mass-spreads

>>514403145If TLOU2 characters are a sample of what's left of humanity... Props to Joel for ending it sooner.

>>514423529The fact that he met several good people on his journey is reason enough to give humanity a second chance

>>514403145I don't remember killing that many people in RDR2. His name's arthur, too, not joel.

Do you idiots realize what a vaccine even means to that society? Fuck-all. Even if we're supposing that the Fireflies suddenly have the manufacturing capacity out of their ass to mass-produce and distribute the vaccine in a manner that still means it's viable when people take it, all of the infected in TLOU still kill people regularly, and those who get wounded are clearly in no state to survive regardless of whether they ultimately turn infected. The fungal shit doesn't even matter when you consider the hordes of bandits, cannibals and looters fucking things up 24/7. What good would a vaccine be if the world around them is still fucked up??

>>514406235the utah raptor is huge though so fuck you

>>514403145The main villains that killed billions are the scientists that played God and created the disease in first place. Joel was right when he killed the scientists at the end of first TLOU, they were the ones that indirectly killed his daughter.

>>514409843and he was right to do it desu

>>514403145would you kill your mother to save literally whos?

It's one life vs millions you retarded selfish fucks, one of those millions is you

>>514424503No I'm not. I died hours into the outbreak.

>>514424503millions of rabid cunts from a species that was so inept it couldn't prevent its downfall in the first place and now has devolved into animals not worth saving


>All the retards thinking this is just a numbers game to decide whether or not he fucked upEllie was like a daughter to him, anyone who isn't a complete psychopath would at least have had qualms about what to do in that moment, and many would have done the same. I seriously can not believe how it is so hard to grasp for so many people.

>>514424984"several good people" meaning like 4 people among the fucking 300 or so rabid lunatics

>>514403145So do you every time you jerk off alone, faggot