The best RPG you'll never play

The best RPG you'll never play

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nma-fallout.com/resources/van-buren-docs.107/
youtube.com/watch?v=M8U4k2Ik6yk

Didn't we play large parts of it in New Vegas?

>>508950959Sort of, but New Vegas is more like a sequel to this one

>>508950952where?

>>508950952This is a tech demo from like 2002...

It was from a birds-eye view perspective.Glad that shit got scrapped and rearranged into New Vegas.

>>508951103They just dusted off unused concepts from van buren, like the legion, but its mostly its own thing.

>>508950782Was this a completely new engine by the way?

>>508951420>he doesn't like isometric games

>>508951230I wonder if those Van Buren graphics were actually re-topologized from the original 3d models from which the Fallout 1 and 2 sprites were rendered? Would have been pretty cool actually. Even if it was 2002-2004 era graphics.

>>508951679>"he doesn't like isometric games"They offer the player a unnatural advantage.And I prefer a more direct control of the protagonist.

>>508951659It was repurposed after Baldur's Gate 3 got scrapped, but yeah, it was their in house engine

>>508950782Thank goodness for small favors.

>>508951934>unnatural advantageYou know "fog of war" is a thing?Also top down view + turn based combat makes for better tactical gameplay

>>508950952Based post is based

>>508951965So it's still better than Bethesda.

You can literally play the van buren tech demo and see everything it would have been. Mediocre at best.

>>508950782I'm still mad about this.

>>508951934>They offer the player a unnatural advantage.Huh?

>>508952213>Also top down view + turn based combat makes for better tactical gameplayBut that's the unnatural advantage I'm referring to.>>508952510Fucking SHUT UP!

>>508953190Are you trying to trick me

Wasn't there some guy remaking Van Buren from design documents and stuff?I remember reading about it like a year ago or summat

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>>508953739No tricks, PRICK.Birds-eye view is unnatural and negatively impacts immersion.

>>508954518I'd love to see your idea of an RTS game

>>508954518Birds-eye view is a gateway to many perspectives some would consider....unnatural

What really gets me is that the game was supposed to cover all of Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico, but instead in the series all we have is a tiny city and surrounding area. Rendering everything you can in full 3D is a huge mistake because the game world end up super tiny.

>>508954215Yeah, there's some guy making it on Unity. The problem with this is that a lot of the design documents are either lost/incomplete/full of redundant or outdated information so at some point you have to make things up. Also for some reason the Russians, who have made some pretty impressive Fallout mods, don't seem interested in making Van Buren

>>508954697Mount & Blade.Or incorporate the birds-eye view via drone and advanced communication technology.

>>508955061Not everything has to be first/third person, user

>>508954989why russians love old fallout so much ? is that a classic there ?

>>508950782um, sweetie, how about no?

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>>508951436one thing I wish they did more with is the burned man. nv doesnt have nearly enough graham in it, not even in his own DLC where you mostly run errands for d*niel

>>508955061What if the character is a shaman that leads the battlefield while also seeing through the eyes of a bird

>>508955257Everything there is popular. There a Polish series of crappy FPS called Chernobyl that has a cult status there for some baffling reason

>>508954989Godspeed to the guy, it's a mammoth task, even if he had a proper source of reference.I wonder how much Avellone and co kept/remember from Van Buren, and whether he'd be able to tap into that?

>>508955372God I wish we could play Black Isle's version of Baldur's Gate III instead of the pozzed shit they're trying to pass off as a sequel.

>>508955061So Battlefield's Commander Mode but using AI squads?

>>508955746This one had even less in common with BG tho, actually it was more of an Icewind Dale spin off

>>508955230>Not everything has to be first/third person, anonWhy the fuck not?>>508955458Magic's fucking gay.

>>508955928No, modern military technology is not yet advanced enough for the complex UI you see in Commander mode.

>>508955393Yeah, wasnt Graham supposed to be a party member in VB?

>>508955976And Icewind Dale is a fucking masterpiece, your point?

Did a replay of 1-2 a month or so ago. Is Tactics worth playing?What about that PS2 game?

>>508951934>>508953190>>508954518I really hope that this is some kind of fucked up bait and you aren't actually that stupid.

>>508956367Not Baldur's Gate at all, also calling Icewind Dale a masterpiece is kind of a stretch

>>508956015>Magic's fucking gay.Okay, he's a techno-shaman that uses psychic power to dominate the minds of lesser birds so that his CRPG can have bird's-eye view

>>508956403Could never get into Tactics, partly because it doesn't run well on modern resolutions, but my biggest issue is that it focused entirely on Fallouts worst aspect

>>508950782>The fan project to make it in the f1-2 engine hasn't been updated in 4 yearsI've lost all hope

>>508956403Tactics is a really fun game, thoroughly recommend it. Story wise it's an interesting tangent in the history of the Brotherhood of Steel.The PS2 game Brotherhood of Steel is more subjective. It's basically a top-down shooter with a Fallout skin. Go in with low expectations and you'll have a fun time, but do not go in expecting a Fallout game.

>>508956347He was called The Hanged Man. He would be found in the starting town hanging from a pole and if you cut him down the entire totwn gets pissed. Mainly because The Hanged Man would just murder people without you telling him too.

>>508951679You do know that isometric has a pretty specific meaning and it does not mean "third person top down view" right?

>>508950782Non episodic Pathologic 2?

>>508950782just play Underrail

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>>508956859That's what worries me too. I love the RP aspects of the Fallouts but god damn the combat is a drag. Thank god for one-shotting plasma rifles.I was hoping with this one they actually tried to make it a bit more interesting.>>508956897How does Tactics compare to F1-2 in terms of combat? Is it just more of the same or does it have actual tactics? Like do you get to control a team and not just a single character + Cassidy shotgunning you in the back of the head?

>>508957016True, but nobody cares.

>>508956634Different strokes for different folks I guess, but I loved Icewind Dale and I played it religiously. I would have really liked to have seen how Black Isle would have expanded on it past Icewind Dale II

>>508957436Tactics is real time

>>508955627There's a doc filled with notes on NoMutantsAllowed, I downloaded it myself and it seems pretty comprehensive

>>508950959No. Van Buren was about the MC being a prisoner being sent to an automated prison that was made specifically to contain people who caught a disease that was the basically the beta FEV virus. Some NCR scientist blew open the prison to release the prisoners so they'd run around and infect people with the virus. The MC and the other prisoners would be chased by a giant robot covered in rockets and shit that was trying to capture them and return them to the prison.Eventually you find out the scientist was doing it because he knew the prisons AI had access to one of the last operational satellites that had access to nukes, because if the spread of the virus got so bad, they could nuke it all to shit to keep it from spreading. So then it becomes a race to get up to the satellite and stop him for using the nukes.It was basically nothing like NV, but it still had a handful of things in it that show up in NV like the war between NCR and Legion, but that was just a background thing. Graham was a companion who was broken OP, but the trade off was he would just want to kill shit constantly so if you didn't have good negotiation skills he'd just fuck shit up and people would hate you. Ulysses was made in reference to that giant robot, the think tank was like a settlement made up of robots / the prison, ect.Also, Van Buren basically happened in NV, characters are referenced in dialog from it and events, you just dont get to see it since its on the other side of the dam.

>>508957709Wait, really? How does that work? Is it basically like the Commandos games?

>>508957025>underrail>goodsomehow looks worse than fallout 1 & 2 and writing is abysmal.

>>508950782But I did play it. Sort of. It wasn't finished, so I didn't play ALL of it, but I played a little of it. You can play it too, it's easy to find.

>>508957436You have a control of the whole squad, plus you can duck and go prone, also real time is optional, but the combat is still pretty bare bones to me compared to stuff like X-COM

>>508957909I only played Commandos: Strike Force and that was an FPS, so I have no clue.Action Points aren't used for movement like in FO1/2, only for other actions such as combat and how much Agility you have determines how much AP you have and how fast they regenerate (more Agility means more AP and faster regen).

>>508957909Tactics has multiple combat systems you can pick from. CTB or Continuous Turn Based is the real time system where everything happens in real time, and AP generates based on agility. Moving doesn't cost AP though.ITB or Individual Turn Based is the turn-based combat from Fallout 1 and 2, where each character has a turn.STB or Squad Turn Based is almost akin to classic X-Com, in that your squad has a turn, and they can all move, shoot, set-up overwatch, that sort of thing. Then the enemy goes and so on.

>>508958690Nothing except CTB was playtested by the way, so the only way you should play is CTB

>>508958789Got it. Was just gonna ask which is the preferred mode.

>>508958789I've only ever played in CTB and STB. You can tell that CTB was the way the game was meant to be played, but STB is actually quite fun if a bit time consuming at points.

>>508956602>making logical valid point is "some kind of fucked up bait"K>>508956654Techno-magicism is really fucking gay.Probably the shittest and most contrived theme around.

>>508958690It's kinda like Arcanum, where in turn based you have actual control over what you're doing but it's slow as hell, or real time where it moves faster but it's a frantic chaos

>>508958010>t. someone that hasn't actually played it

>>508959307Is the combat in Arcanum as stupid as everyone seems to say it is?I remember seeing the game in the shops back int day and thinking, "hey, this looks kinda like Fallout", but I never picked it up.

>>508955627Here's the doc links if you want to check them yourself nma-fallout.com/resources/van-buren-docs.107/

>>508959821The combat is definitely a mess, I'd use turn based all the time if not for the fact that the actions make you lose fatigue, which is not the case in real time for some reason. I'd still recommend it though as it's an absolute gem as a role-playing game

>>508959897Cheers mate, I'll take a look. The scope for Van Buren seems huge compared to 1 and 2, so I'm intrigued how far they got in fleshing it out before the game got canned.

>>508950782We did play it, New Vegas is essentially the canceled Fallout 3

>>508960638retard. dont speak on shit and spread misinfo on things you clearly have no knowledge on

>>508959182prob bait or either play underrail and get your shit kicked in and talk about your advantage

>>508951934what about the unnatural advantage of being able to slow down time and specifically pick the body parts you want to shoot at? Does that annoy you too?

>>508959821it's certainly a mess, but people love to play it up

>>508960638Someone posted a compilation of all the design documents that have surfaced for Van Buren. Apart from the Legion vs NCR war, there's very little in common

>>508950782That's not Pathologic 2 with Bachelor and Changeling's full campaigns

>>508950782>The worst RPG you'll never playFixed that for you.Are we forgetting the magical wacky doctor who unleashed a plague upon the wastes to reset things to zero a fucking gain? Are we forgetting he resides on an orbital space station with nukes?

>>508960890>>508960243I'll give it a look, not like I've got much else to do whilst pretending to work from home.

>>508960962The conflict in Van Buren is between NCR and BoS, Legion had only a small outpost near Denver

>>508961248>He doesn't knowHahahahhahahhahah! Oh my god!

>>508961064I mean, granted this is the same world where some retarded shaman can project visions of random bullshit across the desert. Nuke-wielding space scientists isn't exactly out of the realm of possibility.

Fallout 76 is good now, civvie said so on twitter.

>>508959307Real time combat in Arcanum is fucking hilarious at times. There's a shopkeeper in the first town that has an enchanted bow + really high skill of something. She caught me trying to pickpocket something and mowed down my entire party with a constant stream of arrows. It was like she turned on a firehouse full of arrows and I was laughing too hard to even get frustrated.

>>508961475Yeah, Fallout was always shit and people talking like Bethesda ruined the series have no idea just how good they have it.

>>508961513Civvie's "King of Bhaston" is the closest I'm ever getting to enjoying F4

>>508960243I boot up Arcanum like once a year before eventually giving up for one reason or another.What is the recommended beginner class/build that helps me ease into it?

>>508950782looks pretty ugly. Maybe if they stuck with 2d sprites they wouldn't have gone bankrupt

>>508961475Don't dig a hole trying to defend Black Isle from its own retardation. Bethesda isn't nearly as bad as people think they are.

>>508961750>what is tech demo?Either way, Interplay being literally the worst run company in existence is what killed Black Isle, not Van Buren.

>>508950782the actual best RPG you'll never play until verum rex is finished

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>>508960962>>508957804This isn't strictly true. Off the top of my head: >Caesar's Legion>NCR/Legion conflict at Hoover Dam>NCR/Brotherhood War and the Brotherhood losing >Powder Gangers and the NCR chain gangs >Joshua Graham >Alice McLafferty and the Crimson Caravan being shady/hyper-competitive bastards >Victor Presper was transformed into Father Elijah >Ulysses takes elements of Presper and his name+plan are a reference to ODYSSEUS from Van Buren >Boulder Dome and Tibbets Prison became The Big Empty (Tibbets was originally called Big Mountain)>Boulder Dome also provided light inspiration for the Sierra Madre >The companion, Alexandria, became Cass >Bloomfield Space Center and the Reservation inspired REPCONN and the Bright Followers>Maxson Bunker BoS storyline heavily reflects into the Mojave BoS bunker and their storyline Then you've got all the Van Buren stuff that is outright canonized/namedropped like New Canaan, Bishop Mordecai, The Ciphers, Circle of Steel, Circle Junction, Blackfoot Tribe, The Hangdogs/Denver, New Vegas is like Van Buren but with a good amount of time in the oven.

>>508961840>Bethesda isn't nearly as bad as people think they are.That's a load of shit and you know it. And I say this as someone who religiously plays Skyrim and is currently in the process of downloading Fallout 4 for my yearly playthrough. Bethesda just happens to be the only one's fulfilling a particular niche, of games but that doesn't change the fact that their incompetence is legendary.

>>508961640>>508961840Bethesda grounded Fallout in a lot of ways, but they also missed a lot of what made the original Fallout games such fun romps.

>>508962218Is this proof that Chris Avellone is based or just a lazy fuck that reused a bunch of his prior work on Van Buren?

>>508961513did he really?

>>508962969It's not really reused. A lot of the New Vegas content is transformative of the original ideas, and IMO, a lot lot better. I don't think there is a single one that wasn't better in the Vegas iteration. You could say Van Buren was heavily unfinished and so judging it based on that would be unfair, or you could say Van Buren was going to be a trainwreck. It's best ideas, i.e the distinct tribalism and the development of nations in the Wasteland were the DNA that fed into Vegas.

>>508962220>And I say this as someone who religiously plays Skyrim and is currently in the process of downloading Fallout 4 for my yearly playthrough

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>>508962452What sucks the most is how badly they handled the actual post-apocalypse stuff, with all the new civilizations and cultures. That shit is 90% of what makes Fallout so fun.Fallout 3 only really had rehashed F2 stories as written by children and worse in every way, and everything in F4 was just skin deep shit, slap a colonial hat on a character and pretend you invented a post-war culture type shit.

>>508950782But I have, it was called Fallout: New Vegas.*dabs*

>>508962452yeah, i miss doctor who references and talking rats>>508963430lol, there is no post-war cultureeveryone is too divided with saving themselves to form shit and the ones that are haven't stayed long and are in conflict with other ones

>>508963660>lol, there is no post-war cultureSo, you didn't play the games I take it?

>>508963660Please kill yourself.

>>508960764Underrail is for pretentious cocksuckers; NO THANKS!>>508960803>what about the unnatural advantage of being able to slow down time and specifically pick the body parts you want to shoot at?No, idiot, that's what they called concentration, dipshithead.Use your brain.

>>508950782I remember seeing this screenshot and thinking "wow, nice graphics"

>>508963843Oh no, I did. There is no uniform culture or any that are distinctly made without being founded on a pre-existing pre-war culture. Even the Legion isn't privy to that,.

>>508963871Keep sucking that talking rat dick and huffing that amphetamine brahmin shit

>>508963405Yeah, I drinks onoins; what's the BIG idea?Onions milk is a healthy alternative to dairy milk, and... oh, that's right, isn't obtained through cow rape!

>>508964806That's what makes it fun though. Seeing how they take old cultures and adapt them into a post-apocalyptic wasteland.At one point you are in some run down town filled with gangsters, in another a clean almost futuristic city, another in a cathedral straight form a fantasy game. It takes all these and it actually spends the time to flesh them out and give them context.

>>508964941>huffing that amphetamine brahmin shitI can't believe people actually were in arms about Myron not inventing Jet from that.

>>508963430I read something about this, or was it a YouTube video, I don't really remember. Bethesda basically views the world of Fallout as a 1950s flavoured apocalypse, where ideas never really developed passed that point.What you see in the world of Fallout 1 and 2 the remnants of that 1950s retro-futurist world, but that's all it is, remnants. They focus a lot more on the new civilisations, and how people picked up the pieces after everything collapsed. Yes some people cling to the old world, but the majority see this as an opportunity to forge a new path, you know, when they're not dying from the horrors of the wasteland.

>>508965146Those aren't unique or post-war though. They're strange alien imitation, even in the first game.You can bring up the fact that it's only been 200 years since the war but America was already a brash new culture by the time it was 200.

I couldn't get into the first Fallout game. I played it for an hour and just couldn't really get into it. Didn't like the gameplay at all. New Vegas is one of my favorite games so I'm a bit disappointed that I'm a pleb.

>>508965376>the majority see this as an opportunity to forge a new path, you know, when they're not dying from the horrors of the wasteland.That is just Aradesh. Everyone else is just trying to survive.

>>508957804>raham was a companion who was broken OP, but the trade off was he would just want to kill shit constantlyIt's funny that New Vegas still had one of those.

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>>508965190It was moreso that Jet being a new drug without a cure was pretty crucial to Fallout 2's factional subplot. It being a pre-war drug that already existed for centuries takes the rug from underneath that story for basically no reason other than laziness.

skyrim

>>508965575It's funny how you can't call him out on killing his own wife instead of coming up with a different plan to save her. Like, you know, buying her with all that NCR blood money?

>>508965575Boone is the worst companion in New Vegas, I really don't understand how everybody likes him so much. It's NV so he is competently written, but I find him so dry and uninteresting in his portrayal and as a companion he is just boringly powerful "Man with gun".

>>508958010retard

>>508965625Drugs don't have cures. That subplot was so fucking retarded.

>>508965423It might be just because it's alien to you. I played Fallout 1 for the first time back in 2013 after being a massive NV fan and I was rebuked at first. I then read the manual and just forced myself to try something new, and after the first few hours my enjoyment only went up, and it became like second nature. 1 and 2 stand as some of my favourite games. Sometimes it just takes getting used to.

>>508961718Magic is easy mode. I recommend grabbing Harm, the first level Black Necromancy spell. Casts as fast as you can click and is one of the strongest spells in the game.Time magic is really strong too if you get going with it, but that could be a while. Personally my favorite build is Dex Throwing with Time magic. You can get 50+ action points and attack from across the screen

>>508965379Never said they were unique. The strange alien imitation is the appeal.

>>508965575constantly attacking the legion isn't a problem, it's a solution

>>508965882Not really, from what I recall the immediate/instantaneous physical addiction to Jet was a designed chemical component of the drug, and the cure was an ailment of that.

cyкa rpg

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>>508966013and you say they have culture

I got filtered by the turrets in that one early mission in Fallout Tactics and never went back to it. I gave it a chance but the combat was really clunky and poorly implemented from the beginning and that bullshit was just the last straw.

>>508965882>Drugs don't have cures. That subplot was so fucking retarded.No, it made sense. The drugs bond with your brain, changing the chemistry and messing up your receptors. The jet "cure" blocks the receptors removing the need for jet.

>>508966068Yeah, that's not how addiction works either. The entire drug plot and the way its made is retarded.

>>508966119Yes. Because they have?

>>508957804i really cant tell if the last level taking place in space is cool or notVB Joshua sounds fun though

>>508966193All drugs do that. Cures for drugs are a fucking retarded concept.

>>508966253>how dare they have a fantasy drug in this fantasy game

>>508966389Why?

>>508966253>fictional sci-fi drug makes you immediately chemically and physically addicted to it so that you need to get more>Fictional sci-fi drug has chemical cure formulated that removes that physical effect>Uh, yeah, nah bro, that's not how that shit works in real life thank you commander brainlet

>>508966403>Bethesda Fallout so unrealistic!>lol y u so mad about shit meth, it's just a fantasy gamegoddammit, quit these selective exceptions, grognard fanboysyou are the reason why fallout is going to shit in the first place

>>508966253You just saying random shit for the sake of it now?

>>508966403>>508966493>it's just fictionThank god, we can all acknowledge Fallout 4 as the best game in the series now.

>>508966580I never said it was unrealistic. Fallout has always been pretty silly. Even the first game.Bethesda just happens to be both silly and shitty.

What is it about these old games with shit gameplay, mediocre writing, and played out concepts that makes people defend them so viciously?

>>508961638With the right bow and proper skill, you can shoot over 120 arrows per turn. When you turn that to real time you just get a laser made of arrows that sweeps across the screen.

>>508966580Ah, now we've found out what your actual argument is. Good to see we've pushed you out of your weasel hole. If you think suspension of disbelief and shit writing are the same thing, just hang yourself already you tranny.

>>508966091i fucking hope Trudograd will the same fun retarded writing

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>>508966870he says, digging himself deeper in his own

>>508966845What is it about Bethesda trannies that makes them sour every thread they can find?

>>508950782Dwarf Fortress

>>508957804>Also, Van Buren basically happened in NV, characters are referenced in dialog from it and events, you just dont get to see it since its on the other side of the dam.wut

>>508966985Not an argument. Try again kek

>>508951965do we have any remains or leaks from bg3?

>>508967004you'd have a hard time defending fallout 4 too

>>508965376youtube.com/watch?v=M8U4k2Ik6yk

>>508967004You do realize you sour the threads, right? You sour whatever argument you may have with vitriol and excuses for the old games' flaws and recoil when someone calls you out. When they do the same for nuFallout, somehow they're in the wrong while you're still somehow in the right.You're all a bunch of weasels defending shit games that will never fulfill their potential and never did. Fallout is a shit franchise for boring people who want to live in a wasteland filled with references to the past and philosophical pseudo-babble. Enjoy your shit sandwhich.Excuse me while I play the best isometric post-apocalptic game of all time: Underrail

>>508965882>>508966389The cure was basically a simplified version of Methadone is in real life.

>>508967593>reddit spacingSays enough!

>>508967593Bye, have fun.

>>508967570>Shamus>old man with kids>kicked off his own let's play series>still making videos about video games at his ageOh my god, who the hell cares about this random nitpicker with oh so original ideas.At least the "What do they eat?" guy had a decent point and has other shit to say.

>>508967685imeandoyouwantmetypinglikethisretard?

>>508967997Keep being upset, my reddit dwelling friend! You might find you're better suited to that website, so I'd suggest "logging off"!

>>508961513not true he said it isn't a disaster anymore. Which is true played during the free weekend and it was like playing launch new vegas but everything is worse besides the shooting. So now its just boring, I can't imagine how they launched that game without npcs without them its like playing a demo of game that will come out in 3 years

>>508950782Fuck no, some of the ideas they had were absolutely retarded.>those blue mutants

>>508967057True, Elijah mentions Cyphers which were going to be in Van Buren; tribes like Hangdogs, Twin Mothers, Blackfoot were conquered by/incorporated into Legion; Circle of Steel gets mentioned by Veronica?, etc., New Canaan is destroyed. Mind you, not all of it is the same, Hoover Dam is the best example as it serves a completely different purpose