Set out to make satirical anti-fascist movie

And Mad Max: Fury Road.

If Holla Forums wanted to turn us on to fascism, they did a terrible job of doing it, tbh fam

smh

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It isn't facism, although it is definitely authoritarian.

Regardless of race, merit and service is the key to advancement. They are also atheistic. And a world government disregarding race/ethnicity is not at all facist.

tl;dr OP knows nothing about politics and ideologies

fuck off IDF

You do know that those female soldiers have terrible discipline multiple nude leaks of them partially in uniform, poor performance and would end up as ISIS machete fodder if they ever fought right?

also, they've had to basically create an HR battalion because most of the women are worthless in any kind of real service

OP here,

I never called them fascist. Paul Verhoeven did.

When asked about the characters and society portrayed in the film, he's reiterated that they are fascists. If what he says is true, then they're the nicest fascist I've ever seen. Their society is leaps and bounds ahead of ours. I actually wish the world could be more like the one in the film.

I guess that makes me fascist then huh?

Well you didn't state in your OP that those statements were Verhoeven's, not yours.

I too would love to live under an atheistic world-government

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I don't think it's atheistic but they do seem to keep a strong barrier between church and state.

In the original book by Robert A Heinlein, they mention there being a Chaplin among the soldiers.

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I don't see how Charlie Chaplin being in the book means that the government did not discourage religion

that's what the word means though

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Sorry. I meant Chaplain.

It's a parody of Bush-era Clapistania and the military-machine.

Daddy fucked you too much or too little?

True. The society in Starship Troopers is much closer to modern day america than actual fascism. Fascism leads to militant authoritarism, but not all militant authoritarism is fascist.

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Fuck off, idiot. Go learn basic terminology.

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Where the BUUUUUUUUUUGS! representative of the soviets or the Jews?

The film was supposed to be almost propaganda user. The idea is for it all to be too perfect. That and it was somewhat of a commentary on older war movies, in particular their being too black and white with faceless bad-guy Germans. This is why you get shit like loaders tapping the helmet of the man with the rocket launcher despite it being unnecessary with a front-loading launcher, for example: an explicit throwback to those older films.

That said Verhoeven misinterpreted the original book (and didn't even bother reading it). It was merely an exploration of a different type of government, not an endorsement of that specific system. Good SF is supposed to be speculative after all. I'm a fan of both the film and the book for different reasons but the book is probably superior overall.

nope

there's a lot of things you can call Trump, but in what way is he leftist?

You're right. I like the movie but the book is definitely better.

I wish someone would make a faithful adaptation of the book. One that would flesh out the philosophy Heinlein put in it.

I think it would be a great system of government. You shouldn't be allowed to vote if you aren't willing to give back to your country (Or planet in this case.)

You've missed your turn, pigsty is that way >>>Holla Forums

Nazism =/= Fascism, Italian or otherwise. You need look no further than Austria in the early-mid 30s for proof of this. Fascism does not care for race as much as nationality. It is also generally associated with a sincere wish to protect the state's religion while Nazism was opposed to religion particularly that not controlled by the state. Nazism was also somewhat more left-wing. In particular big business was only left alone out of practicality, a lot of Hitler's writings favour the middle and working class over rich elites.

As a sweeping generalisation Fascism was economically and socially conservative while Nazism was economically more left, socially somewhat right.

And Hitler was not particularly religious nor into neo-paganism etc (this was more Himmler's thing). Pseudoscience with a focus on 'alternative' medicine are accurate though.

His whole thing is about rousing the bottom classes to rise and take back their country. He appeals to the angry masses and various social rejects who think they are being oppressed by the current stabilized rule. He promises to bring the magical glory days and subjugate the tyrants. If the rabble thinks that more selfishness is the Will of the People, then then people who gain momentum by appealing to that will is leftist.

Though do note that thanks to the volatile nature of leftist revolutions, they often result in governments that must use authoritarianism to stabilize the new rule, and in worst cases resulting in a rule that resembles/is monarchism. Though I don't think Trump would be able to go anywhere near that outcome.

that's populism, not leftism

The movie was never intended to be an interpretation of the book actually. It started as a completely unrelated script and the producers just got the rights to it at some point.

I'd have preferred it if they'd stuck with the original idea of the movie being standalone. The Starship Troopers name was only slapped on to sell more tickets with most of the script being planned without any idea of using the book.

Sadly we aren't likely to see it in the current climate. Once you start basing votes on merit it's clear who's going to benefit (straight white men) and who will lose out. This is just too upsetting to millennial fucks I'm afraid.

I'd like to see a little more expansion on the book's brief mention of non-combat roles you can do as your service too.

Only problem is there's no way to reign in the military-industrial complex as long as the only ones that can vote on it are soldiers.

Populism can be right-wing as well.

What I said is the only common defining factor in all leftist movements in history. Good luck coming up with anything better.

I am aware user but after the rights were bought he did pick the book up, read a short amount and declared it fascist propaganda or similar.

But anyone can become a soldier.

In the book it says the opportunity of Federal Service is open to everyone, able-bodied or not.

Though I see now that what I wrote is somewhat ambiguous. I meant the spoiler as an additional note but it does rather read as if the entire film was supposed to be an interpretation of the book.

My point was supposed to be that the film is really a satire of the golden age of war movies and how sticking an American uniform on the 'good guys' often lets them get away with literal murder but it wasn't particularly clear.

He didn't read any of it.

I never said it couldn't

the defining factor in leftism is economic and social policy. leftists believe that decisions regarding those are better left to the state and not individuals

And Federal Service is not necessarily in the armed forces either.

The point is that the only people that want to engage in military service are the ones that can vote on it. It's basically a perpetual mandate for war, not unlike how the Roman Empire operated and which was its recipe for instability and eventual collapse.

"According to the DVD commentary, Verhoeven never finished reading the novel, claiming he read through the first few chapters and became both "bored and depressed."

I was close enough. Again I agree it wasn't an influence on the film but he did look into it at some point and basically disregarded it out of hand because of a knee-jerk reaction.

This kino is the greatest satire ever put to film.

Neither. They're how American films see America's enemies. Technically that includes the Soviets, I suppose.

I know that "facts are racist and triggering!" fags would hate it. Never mind that race doesn't even factor when serving in the mobile infantry. What does factor is the quality of service.

That's statism/authoritarianism, though, something which the right is entirely capable of as well. Left-right paradigm was coined somewhere around the French revolution to tell the difference between statesmen who were driving the interests of the lower castes, the workers, and those driving the interests of the established power, the aristocrats, etc.

Thus a leftist politicians are those who gain power by appealing to the workers and such, and rightist politicians are those who gain power by appealing to the established power.

that was over 200 years ago. definitions have changed since then

Sadly that's the problem. A lot of the people who bitch about this type of thing do so because deep down they feel inferior. Anything asking them to stand on their own merits instead of some identity they can adopt is automatically bad-wrong.

No it isn't.

We will always need some kind of military or well regulated militia to maintain order during all times whether during peace or war.

In the book, democracies of the 20th century collapsed because people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears (Much like it is today!)

The Terran Federation was established to be a meritocracy where only those who are willing to give their all for it should have the right to choose which path it should go politically.

this is what statists actually believe

That would mean they are inferior.

If we cannot follow the meaning it actually means because people are too fucking thick to learn history then they shouldn't use the word at all.

Amongst the internet-retards the word really doesn't mean anything these days but "a thing I don't like". Fuck, there apparently is supposed to be some sort of inherent connection with hippyism, liberalism, leftism and sexual abnormalities. It's stupid.

>Fuck, there apparently is supposed to be some sort of inherent connection with hippyism, liberalism, leftism and sexual abnormalities. It's stupid.

Americans need to stop tarnishing the good name of liberalism with their fucking crazy politics. Shoot them all already if you fucking have to.

god damn the last 2 years have really proven that Rosenbaum fanboys are firmly on the left

who dat?

It's like that on purpose.

bugs = non whites

You don't give Verhoeven enough credit. He sets out to make what he sees.

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I wish I had that image of JIDF planning to post sexy IDF women on Holla Forums to convince them to support Israel.

I tried looking for it but I can't find it.

In what world or galaxy wouldn't we? Come on now.

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are you retarded?

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user, are you a fukkin xeno?

I agree that USA has been shifting towards a state where leftist movements take root easily. However, what you don't realize is that lefist movements can quite easily be bloody enemies with each other.
I don't think you understand very well what Right or Left actually mean.

SAME 2 U

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as long as it agrees with your biases its "genius", right right right.

do not engage americans or millennials when it comes to politics, they can't define a single term, they just shout their idpol at you until you give up in disgust, then declare it "victory".

Left-right divide at its simplest tends to be change vs. status quo. The original right in France wanted to support the monarchy which was the status quo, whereas the left wanted more power to the peasants/Third Estate.

In America, right wing politics has tended to revolve more around the founding fathers and the constitution, the status quo they wanted to protect.

It's made even more confusing by political groups subverting one another or stealing another side's popular talking points. One example is the Democrats (the party of the Confederacy and the KKK) pandering to black people through the welfare state and LBJ's famous quote about getting niggers voting Democrat for 100 years. The Democrats of that era probably thought they'd pulled a masterstroke, but if he could see his party now Johnson would be livid. Essentially, if you pretend to be the party of progress long enough, you'll become the party of progress. The 1968 DNC was probably a watershed moment in that process, where Frankenstein's monster turned on the Doctor.

On the other hand, you have a bunch of self-confessed Trotsykites taking over the supposedly apple pie, ice cream and freedom Republicans through the Neocon movement. Constantly waging war to "spread Democracy" is like an updated version of permanent revolution, and a far cry from the party that wanted to remain neutral in World War II.

The divide emerging in modern politics however is primarily nationalism vs. globalism. Globalists have dominated both sides since the 90s or earlier, but lately anti-globalists (who also tend to be anti-immigration) like Farage, the Le Pens, Trump, what can loosley be defined as "the alt-right" and other similar movements have been eating away at neocon support bases.

Interestingly, it has essentially come full circle, with the left, which in Revolution-era France wanted to take power away from the monarchy and give it to the people, now wants to take power from the people, give it to the government and then to even less democratic international establishments like the EU/UN, while the right, which favoured centralisation of power on the king/nobility, is now being used as a vehicle of those who want to take power back from what they view as an overcentralised system.

TL;DR Don't use hundred year old definitions of left wing to claim Trump is a modern leftist. The right/left distinction is in constant flux.

Nothing these days.

Are there seriously people who think Shillary and Drumpf are different? Well I guess Trump is kinda different in that he doesnt want to win, he wants to take the money and the (((TRUMP BRAND NAME))) and run. He wouldnt know what to do if he were suddenly president; it would be like electing Tom Cruise or something, he's just a celebrity ego.

So I guess the difference is
Hillary - criminal politician narcissist - Giant Douche
Trump - criminal celebrity narcissist - Turd Sandwich

Christ they're out in force today. How is Trump a criminal exactly? And please don't tell me it has something to do with bankruptcy.

You guys are so easy to spot, at least try to hide it next time.

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Fuck off nigger.

>>>Holla Forums
>>>/freech/
>>>/tumblr/
>>>/suicide/

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Maybe if you ask real nice you'll get a refund on those student loan money you donated

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lolno. in Finland. for example, the left is trying to maintain the nanny state status quo while the very small amount of rightists are trying to reduce it

if you actually bothered to read that post you'd maybe realize that's not what he's trying to say.

Everyone in this thread needs to neck themselves. Including me.

u go first then

Historical revisionism at work.
Funny enough the humans are not really shown to be that fascist, aside from the strawman speech by the political teacher at the start. They're collectivists working together like the bugs, they even have a similar caste system. It makes sense, because working together always makes more success & more mutual profit than competing and killing each other. The humans & bugs obviously apply this to their own species, but when it comes to an alien species it becomes "nope they're not like us, they must die". Sound familiar?
He took this joke film seriously, it was not satirical until people started to make fun of it. Remember when Tommy Wiseau made the same claim?

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Sure we are, goon, sure we are.

I want reddit out.

I want reddit out.

I got a million of 'em

This is for all anons who are not already aware.
archive.is/pcQ7y

>Ya, I use words and phrases that originate from Freech, but can you prove I'm from there? Thought not kiddo
KILL YOURSELF

It's (((bugs))) if you're impersonating Morrrakiu

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The Federation of the movie is clearly fascist. The Federation in the book however is far, far more libertarian than anything we have today anywhere in the world.

What is it like to know that (((Sanders))) works for (((the establishment))) now?

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Are you telling me that a movie modeled after actual real-life nazi propaganda wasn't meant to be satirical?

Holla Forums's ass is still too raw to handle reminding them that Cuck Sanders is a Jew. Have a care user.

He was always a stooge working for the elites, the only difference between him and Crooked Hillary is that he didn't put national security at risk. He was an appeaser that dumb socialists were to vote for thinking it was going to change anything. He's actually pretty good at pretending to be some sort of beta commie because I actually had him pegged as a guy with some integrity for a while there even if I never agreed with him. Turns out that was all faked though.

Nazi propaganda was always truthful so I don't see what that changes. Do you find it inconceivable that the Nazis would be connected with something positive or that one might admire their spirit?

No, but you have to keep in mind that this movie was directed by someone who grew up in the nazi-occupied Netherlands and remembers bombings and dead bodies. He has personal reasons for disliking nazis.

Ameriburger-kun, all your candidates are affiliated with them.

Still better than Crooked Hillary.

It's impossible to not be in some capacity.

the war ended when he was seven years old. he doesn't remember shit about it

Because they tried to do the world a favor and shoah the Jews?

And Sellout Bernie.

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nigger i'm afraid you have some memory problem

The book makes it clear, even if you spend your service peeling potatoes, at the end you are a voting citizen.

Oh shit, I guess I'm a Cruz Missile with her now

But you won't spend your service peeling potatoes. The Federation goes to great lengths to make the job unpleasant and dangerous to filter out those that are really committed to earning their right to vote.

Mate I'm Irish, born 70 years after our Civil War ended and it was still an issue in our family. In the North, the Good Friday Agreement is nearly 20 years old and the divisions haven't gone away.

Even if you're a Nazi supporter/revisionist, stuff like Rotterdam leaves a mark that takes more than 7 years to heal.

If you're supposed to propagandise against authorotarianism, you probably shouldn't set up a scenario where it is necessary for the survival of humanity.

I haven't seen the move, but corporatism has nothing to do with corporations. Corporatism is the economic doctrin of fascism, where society is divided into bodies (auto-manifacturing body, farming body, etc.). Corpo=body in Italian. In every body workers unions and corporate heads represented (an advisory role only) in government. This is meant to encourage class colaboration and interest in the political process. Fascism is largely non-democratic Social Demoracy.

this assumes that humanity is under attack. it's possible the "meteor" was an inside job to illicit support for a war against the bugs. in the film, it's claimed that the bugs shot the meteor from their home planet. look at the map. how could the bugs possibly aim a weapon that precisely from so far away? they'd have to account for countless objects, gravitational pulls, etc. even the most minor alteration in course or speed and the meteor could miss. and how could such technologically advanced society be caught off guard by a simple meteor? even in the 90s we could detect all kinds of interstellar objects, these future humans should be more than capable of identifying and destroying a meteor bound for earth.

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The Rodger Young didn't notice it until it was right on top of them. Plus they were out in deep space and said it came from Bug territory. The movie doesn't really seem to take that shit like distance into account. They mention that the bugs populate worlds simply by hurling their young into space.

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Also other side of galaxy it would take trillions of years to arrive under standard speeds

Also Delta V requirements … you would need to turn all the matter in a sizable chunk of the galaxy into pure energy and then find some way to use that energy for propulsion to actually get it up to speed for an intercept course.

Also at that speed the rock wouldn't just take out Rio it would destroy the earth the moon and a few other bodies in the solar system

If the rock were traveling at the requisite speeds to actually have an encounter with earth

Somehow I think you missed the point that this was propaganda. It is of course pure nonsense on its face.

from the latin corpus. see also caput, latin for head (the capitoline hill is supposedly named so because the head of an Etruscan hero was buried on the hill and his head rolled out of it during the constriction of the temple of jupiter.)