So ive heard DS9 is the weakest but im gonna give it a go anyway

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He's barely even in the show after season 3.

It has it's ups and downs like any Star Trek show but it's miles above Voyager.

The subplots about Ferengi womens rights were pretty cringeworthy i admit.

Not even up to the level of Enterprise, but miles above Voyager.

The completely nonsensical and random wars, canon rape of all the major factions essential characterization, general moronity, and mindboggling inability of "skeptics" to "acknowledge" the space "gods" as "divine" will make you rage. There are decent episodes, but every single big arc is pure cancer, and started the derailment of the franchise from Star TREK to Star WAR.

The least awful part of the show is some of its characters:
Odo & the Ferengi
Garak
Worf, Dukat, Opaka
Sisko & family, Dax, Bashir, O'Brian & family
Opaka
Kira

This is the reason why we the trek board died. Because there are people with such shit taste on Holla Forums

DS9>ENT>TNG>TOS>VOY

I think you meant "the best Star Trek show".
After the second (or third?) season, Rick Berman left the production to create Voyager because he didn't like the setting of DS9. Since that moment, the DS9 writing satff was free to write whatever they wanted so less commie propaganda, more grey Starfleet/Federation characters and they created the best Trek ship: the Defiant.

Great characters: Garak (best spy ever), Jadzia Dax (Dat sexy TOS uniform in Trials and Tribble-ations), Odo, (((Quark))), Dukat.

(((Dukat*)))
The guy is Hebrew as fuck.

No way brah, TOS is the best. 👽

Pick one

Everyone says DS9 is either the 3rd best or the best.
But I'd wager most people find themselves rewatching DS9 episodes more than anything else.
TNG is strong as an over all series, but DS9 has more watchable and replay value episodes than any of the other series.
It also has some of the worst, but that's star trek for you.

Never understood this.

The biggest reasons I tend to hear from people is they dislike how it's on a space station and how so much of the series was spent building arcs.

My favorite aspect of DS9 was they spent so long developing the story and the interplay between the characters. Like if you compare Sisko at the start to Sisko at the end it's like they're completely different people.

Plus it had one of the best Trek villains in the form of Gul Dukat. Who would've been just a standard villain of the week sort of deal in TNG but was allowed to have a huge amount of development given to him. Like I still remember that episode where Sisko and Dukat crash land on a planet and it's entirely devoted to showing how conflicted the guy is about the Bajoran occupation.

To me it was one of the few Trek series's that actually tried something distinctively different than TOS. The rest all had the same serialized villain/situation of the week style format. And while that's good and stuff we've already had 4 series devoted to it (5 if you count the animated one) and what DS9 proved is Star Trek can be so much more than that.

Um did you watch the show?

I actually like Sisko BTW.

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I think Sisko was in every episode

The big difference between DS9 and a lot of other Trek shows is that DS9 was an ensemble cast. Meaning equal amounts of time was spent on giving the other characters episodes devoted to them. In a lot of DS9 episodes Sisko is just a background character because he isn't really involved in the core story.

It's an aspect of DS9 I also like because they were more willing to give the other characters episodes devoted to them. Like some of my favorite episodes in DS9 are the ones that focus on Odo or O'Brien.

This

Right from the getgo with the series they were willing to show Sisko did not have patience for bullshit. Like when Q started fucking with him Sisko punched him in the face.

The Maquis thing I think is a unique example because Sisko deliberately stated earlier in the episode that it was unlikely Eddington was going to go quietly because he viewed himself as a downtrodden hero and Sisko as an evil villain like the Sherif of Nottingham. So he exploited this and let Eddington and the Maquis see him as an evil villain if that meant getting him into custody.

Enterprise had humans who were still acting like (dumb) humans and not space commies like TNG*.
I like Scott Bakula. The first two seasons were boring but the show got better with the whole Xindi arc, I know, its very "anti-Trek" but it was entertaining.
Sadly on the technical aspect, I think it's the show that won't age well, they went full CGI + green screen for their visual effects and it looked fake back then and worse today.

*to me the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone" is the perfect exemple of why I hate Roddenberry's vision of a future Earth.

"A lot has changed in the past three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy."

It's just fucking boring.

I agree.

I always found it funny that this was said several times in several Star Trek series when it evidently wasn't true.

Funny because I thought the whole Xindi plot was terrible, I stopped watching it around that time.
Humans acting like humans is fine, as long as the other races actually act like they are supposed to as well.
Enterprise feels less like an accurate show about what's going on, and more like a dramatization of it as if it were real events being retold by someone who was there in a skewed fashion, it's hard to explain.

Personally I think TNG ruined original Klingons in a lot of ways, but enterprise went balls deep into it.

It almost feels like a holodeck simulation of the actual events cobbled together by Tom Paris or some shit.

No sir, I don't like it.

I like Scott Bakula too but he always felt like a comedic actor and not a dramatic one.

It was most likely done on purpose because they wanted a return to a lighthearted Trek series but the biggest problem with Ent was it felt like they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. There was so much in it that was clearly done to emulate TNG and other series. And there wasn't enough goofy yet surreal moments TOS was well known for.

I think Bakula was personally better in Quantum Leap. I don't fault him for doing Ent since it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. And it hasn't permanently damaged his career or anything. But I'd much rather if a series was going to go full TOS 2.0 that they try to do a more bright visual style and a more comedicly surreal pattern to the plot.

Hell one thing I'd like to see in a new Trek series is a full attempt to mimic the 60's sci-fi aesthetic. I know there were a few episodes of Ent and DS9 that did it but I'd like to see an entire series devoted to it.

Like you said, it worked as a one shot episode like on TNG (the one with Scotty although it was just a scene in the bridge), DS9 and ENT, but I don't know if it would work as a full series in the [CURRENT YEAR], to me in terms of art style there's a before and after Firefly/BSG. TOS' style is nice but it feels really limited when every program is shot in HD.

A shitty Babylon 5 wannabe. DS9 is overhyped. Even Voyager was better pre-Seven of 9.

What the fuck was liquidator Brunts problem?

Enterprise, for all its foibles (like T'Pol's relationship garbage and some arcs that vanished unresolved), had the general mood of exploration and aggression only as a final resort.

Him on DS9 is kinda' like Riker on TNG, in that while the character got some good episodes, the actor simply doesn't have the chops to make me feel it all the way.

It's true the setting of a space station sucked, but the problem with DS9's story wasn't that it was arc-based, but that it made all the factions behave like OoC idiots. Why did the Federation continue keeping the wormhole open and trespassing beyond it after they'd discovered a technologically superior and highly belligerent power owned the other quadrant? Why did everyone put up with the Klingons starting shit with the Cardassians? By show's end, the entire setting had been permanently marred with edgy trash. At least Voyager (Borg aside) had the decency to mostly confine its stupidity to another quadrant.

Also, for all the supposed depth of the series, it never seemed willing to go all the way with character development. For instance, In The Pale Moonlight is an overhyped episode where Sisko doesn't even really do anything naughty except stand by with his thumb in his mouth while Garak does all the dirty work, and Dukat becomes cartoonishly villainous as the series progresses.

Similarly to O'Brian, my problem with Sisko is that his actor doesn't seem emotional enough to fit the character. I like his stentorian theatrical demeanor, but he just feels too stiff.

Sisko was played by an actor with brain problems who talked in a weird way when he was "acting!". I liked how he was written though.

Are you sure you're not mixing him up with the insane guy from Babylon 5? What's wrong with Avery Brooks' mental state besides being a devout christian?

If you've ever seen an interview with the guy, he is fucking weird.

Maybe he just does it to screw around with interviewers, but he's odd.

He does that to fuck with people

I've watched TOS (10/10), TNG (7/10), DS9 (5/10), ENT (8/10), BSG Remake (4/10), Firefly (6/10), Blake's 7 (7/10), Space: Above and Beyond (8/10) and B5 (9/10). So I'm considering watching voyager after giving up on it on my last attempt. Is it entertaining enough to sit through or should I just watch something else instead? Is there even another decent science fiction series that I haven't watched?

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i tried to get into it but it was nothing but religious debates, with the writers imply heavily that muh religion matters more than science in a science fiction show
when it wasn't that, it was oy vey muh space shoah
when i want to watch sci fi i want sci fi not the religious/genocide complaint department

plus its on a space station and not a ship

at least voyager was on a ship, and the hologram doctor n seven of nein weren't bad
and they weren't debating whether the space jews need 200% more reparations or 100% more reparations due to the latest religious debate that incited the black dude to have some flashbacks to stuff they ripped out of babylon 5

I think Voyager would be a perfect complement to your already shit taste

You think I rated Firefly too high? It might have been SJW shit but it was fairly entertaining, never became a slog like some series.

I rated DS9 so low because I watched it after B5 and it was just so underwhelming. I think I would have liked it more if I didn't know there was a much better series with the same premise.

Also forgot to mention that I liked Farscape a lot.

I actually like ENT, but that's incomprehensible. 8/10, made me buttmad for a moment, made me reply

Firefly isn't bad (or SJW, for that matter), just mediocre, derivative, and soulless (like everything Joss ever made). Stay away from Voyager. Note that while Dr. Who is boring tosh, some other Brit series like Red Dwarf, H2G2, and (the unjustly obscure) Star Cops are pretty good. Also, watch (season 1 and ONLY season 1) of Earth: Final Conflict.

This.

If you want a palate cleanser, watch Stargate SG-1. Heroic space atheists righteously kicking the crap out of gods and breaking the shackles off their deluded followers.

Bullshit. Unlike other gods, the Prophets exist. You can talk to them and ask them for help.

DS9 is the only show that got religion right. If primitive species met omnipotent aliens, then of course they would worship them. Especially if the aliens use their godlike powers to save your planet again and again.

I'm not really rating the quality of the shows but their entertainment value for me. That's why I rated TOS so high even though the third season went full retard. It was still fun to watch. ENT felt like it tried to make Star Trek fun again, I liked TNG on my first viewing but looking back on it I feel it was way too bland. It had some great moments but many episodes were also a snorefest or made me cringe.
You should rewatch it, it's pretty obviously written by a cuck.

Apollo was real in the Star Trek continuity, as were all the Greek Gods.

Considering Q exists, I never got how Trek could act like gods weren't real.

kys

InB4 Avery Brooks is the real Benny Russell

Garak tier: DS9.

Aged the best. The best characters and plot line.

Q tier: TNG, TOS.

Nostalgia makes people forget a lot of horrible episodes.

Neelix tier: Voyager, Enterprise.

Boring characters, recycled plots that were done better on previous shows and the dreaded reset button after every episode. Berman and Braga are talentless hacks that killed the franchise and let it fall into the hands of Jew Jew Abrams.

How about not watching any more science fiction shows, and just killing yourself?

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Only a filthy Cardie would say something like that.

My impression is that it's like TNG if you took inventory of the arcs that worked best and expanded on those. It takes a darker & edgier direction compared with Picard's rainbow coalition of TNG but not aggressively so, just by way of making some necessary concessions in regard to obvious problems with the original conception of the Federation as paradise.

A common misconception is that it's all war, but the war stuff doesn't pick up until the last three seasons, and even then it takes up only a minority of Season 5 episodes and only half of Season 6 episodes.

Another common misconception is that DS9 is generally devoid of delightful & self-contained science fiction stories on par with Inner Light, whereas DS9 offers several such episodes (webms related, apologies for halfcuck webm standards – if there's interest I can redo them).

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This is exactly what DS9 got wrong, anyone being "skeptical" of the Bajoran "religion" was absurd, yet the writers kept pushing it as though it made any sense at all. The real Trek attitude to gods and their religions has always been "put up or shut up, bitch", with any sufficiently uppity gods getting their shit kicked in.

True, but TNG had the most range of any of the shows, with both a great core cast of over-the-top hams like TOS, and a huge ensemble of more down-to-earth regular characters for spotlight stories. TNG indeed had a lot of weak episodes, but it also had tons of decent ones, and the most great episodes of any series.

Why can't somebody make an arc-based series where the arcs are about interesting SF puzzlers like golden-age SF novels, instead of space opera warfare? That would be the perfect modern Trek series.

Just remembered that Q is called "The Father of Lies" on some alien world - fucking awesome.

DS9>TNG>VOY>ENT.

I haven't bothered watching tos because it just seems so bland and (I hate using this word) just seems too "old". I've watched the first 2 movies though.

I watched TNG first, and it was kind of cool to just imagine Kirk and the original crew as just historical heroes. Jean Luc is best captain, but a lot of the characters make me cringe >its a Diana Troy episode…

DS9 is the best show in my opinion. Best characters, great story arcs (I find something enjoyable in every episode, can't say that about any of the other series.) All around a fantastic show.

VOY gets a lot of shit, and most of it is, but it has some great episodes. (That one where they get stuck in some sort of dark space bubble. Find out there are other ships in the bubble that prey on newcomers for resources. Use diplomacy and federation values to persuade other ships to try to break free.)

ENT is ok, I mostly enjoyed the fact that the technology level of the humans was so laughable, but they still wanted to head out into space anyway. >I enjoyed the theme song.

I don't know, nobody in TNG had the same chemistry as the core cast of TOS. Didn't like any of the characters by themselves very much either, pretty much all of them fell flat for me. TOS was all about the core trio who had three very distinct and larger than life personalities, then there were background characters that did stuff sometimes. TNG has droves of characters but pretty much all of them have the same amount of personality as the background characters in TOS.

It also had hot mirror universe.

The quality is completely chronological in ST.

1. TOS
2. TNG
3. DS9
4. VOY
5. ENT

At least watch the episode Balance of Terror. It's like Das Boot in space.

Enterprise was better than Voyager at least

AGES LIKE MILK

The philosophical issues are much deeper in TOS. Also, subtle things like the lighting are incredible.

Voyager has much better stand alone episodes within it than enterprise though, imo.
The Doctor wins it some minor points.
And janeways insanity is much more entertaining than anything in ent.

I agree, ENT is nowhere near as bad as people say. It is better than DSN and VOY.

Me too.

If you hadn't noticed, the average episodes of TNG and TOS are pretty meh. It's only the really good ones that are good, but DS9 has those too.

And thats even considering my favorite star trek ever was a TNG episode where Picard's heart stops working and Q lets him relive his life and he finds out that the coward dies a thousand deaths.

Shit I meant to say that the average DS9 episode is actually good with an interesting involving plot.

Also I don't even bother talking about ENT and VOY. They were so fucking stupid.

Everyone did.

>>>/oven/

They did attempt to close the wormhole but it was sabotaged by a changeling infiltrator.

Only the Romulans and the Federation could have challenged them but then it would lead to a big intergalactic war. The fate of some aliens that they had no important relationship with was not worth risking millions of their own people.

Sisko had the authority, contacts, and resources to move the operation forward. Garruk could only advise and perform certain task only with the Captains permission. They both intertwined in that mission.

It's worse. It was so bad that even trekkies didn't watch it. No good characters whatsoever. Time traveling alien Nazis. The last episode really twisted the knife into the few fan girls it had. Either Berman and Braga are robots that do not understand humans or they enjoy pissing on Star Trek and the fans.

Riker: Computer, end program.

Last and certainly least, Archer was the worst. He doesn't know how to fight. He doesn't know how to command. And he definitely doesn't know how to negotiate. He doesn't know anything because there was no Starfleet Academy to train any of them. Earth just hired the captain and crew off the street.

Having an untrained and inexperienced crew could have made for excellent story and character development. Imagine everybody learning as the series went on. But instead, all of them acted like arrogant assholes. The way Archer treated his experienced Vulcan first officer was shameful. The complete opposite of how a good leader acts.

Amazing. A T'Pol whiteknight, I didn't even know there existed any.
I liked pretty much everyone. It was nice that there was only one quirky alien and the rest of the cast were very humanised. Unlike the bores in TNG or the overly silly cast of DS9 they were pretty cool. More could have been done with them but the base characters were the best since TOS.

I didn't even like her. Boring, emotionless female. But she was right. Archer and the rest of those clowns had no idea what they were doing.

You completely failed to list one "cool" thing.

You must define humans as a bunch of retarded assholes.

Worst episode of Star Trek ever.

sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e130.php

This is very true, at the time it when it was fresh it was great but you can't really go back and experience that anymore, the world has moved on. Which is funny because TOS have aged much better, it's not what it once was but it sort of became more fun as time has went by.

Did you even watch more than a couple of episodes?
I suppose I do. They just didn't seem like they had a stick up their ass like the TNG characters had.
Why am I not surprised? It was a great episode, tumblr aliens, the dog got sick and Archer was having problems containing his boner. Sure, if you are one of those dweebs who take Star Trek seriously it might not be for you but it was fun. That episode of TOS when Spock's brain was stolen was good too, I don't care what the Debris cuck thinks, he's not an authority of good taste.

Fug, it's like Plinkett all over again.

What is a Vulcan?

Rick Berman was the worst. He was a pain in the ass to work with from what I've heard.

This was a huge "fuck you" to the people who enjoyed the show.

No, I'm talking about right after rumors of the hostile, expansionist, technologically insurmountable empire dominating everything on the other side of the wormhole were unequivocally confirmed. Many episodes of continuing to let civilian vessels and other factions poke their noses through, making perfectly clear the nature and inferiority of the Alpha Quadrant before they even tried to restrict, fortify, or seal the wormhole.
>it would lead to a big intergalacticstellar war.
Leaving aside the fact that this was precipitated by the power vacuum resulting from the failed Romulan-Cardassian attack on the Dominion that the Federation never should've created the conditions to permit in the first place… They made essentially no effort at arguing down the Klingons.
i.e.: rubber stamping everything that Garak arranged and executes.

Disagree with the rest, but I agree that was an astonishingly terrible idea on the writers' part.

I liked the core cast, too, but it needed more substantial background characters like TNG, since unlike ToS' mains they weren't quite hammy enough to go it alone. Adding Shran and some Andorians to the crew, for instance, would've been pretty cool.

I've never understood what exactly went wrong with those two. They were, so I've heard, responsible for so much of what made TNG great, especially after gaining more power when Roddenberry died, but all three subsequent series (and every single TNG movie, though supposedly the actors were the ones in control there) completely failed to measure up to TNG in spite of their strong hand in them.

That would have been great. Shran was Enterprise at its best, he really should have been made into one of the main cast.

I think it was someone who worked on TNG (either in VFX or artworks/storyboards) who said once that Berman wasn't really a fan of science fiction. He was hired as a producer on TNG because Roddenberry met him once when he was working on another show.

Berman is the man responsible for the bland "wallpaper" music from TNG to ENT. He's the one who got rid of Ron Jones, one of the best TV composers.

As for Braga… I don't know much about him. I know that Ronald D. Moore left the VOY writing staff because of him.

As for what went wrong with Berman and Braga… maybe it was time to bring new people in. Manny Coto as a showrunner was a good idea, but it was too late.

Bait, but I can see the gamer's way of thinking in this kind of things. Everything gets reviewed like vidya, with the same idiocies.

The series celebrated for its mature storyline and acting, magically becomes all shit because the newfags who watch it on youtube find it different from TNG. How about you read up on some trek history and learn, instead of trying to judge the gameplay of a tv show.

i.e. edgy and uncharacteristically bellicose
from the cast 3/4 stiff as a board

That said, I would be genuinely fascinated to hear from anyone who thinks Voyager isn't the weakest series, assuming such people actually exist or any trolls could muster a convincing impression.

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Voyager at least took place aboard a ship. It was also much more cerebral with more thought provoking storylines and unlike DS9 it was never afraid of leaving questions unanswered. It was the thinking man's show, unfortunately many themes, motifs and clever plot structures flew right over the heads of viewers since it referred the Greek classics instead of your typical American kitsch pulp. Then let's not forget 7of9 who was the most attractive character both intellectually and physically to ever grace the franchise. It was Star Trek but reimagined as highbrow speculative drama.

I've never watched it.

Clearly

Yes. I remember she became a junkie.

You don't even know what that word means.

You like Adam Sandler style "comedy".

Stop lying using green text.

You completely failed to refute one word he ever said. You need to do that before you can dismiss him.

Do you like watching the main character being a raging asshole to everyone, just because he is stupid and horny?

I do actually. Wasn't that guy raising kids that weren't his own with a wife that fucked other men? I don't care about e-celeb gossip or any sort of gossip really but I remember reading something like that.
No, once it becomes self aware and dumb it's no longer funny.

What am I? CIA? How the fuck should I know?

Obviously you do. I've seen ad hominem attacks before, but you take the cake. Nothing you say can polish the turd that is Enterprise and Archer.

No I fucking don't. But when you discuss Star Trek on the net the Debris Cuck often comes up like in this thread and from what I've heard he is literally a cuck.

You are a horrible liar. You directly contradict yourself in every post. Including that one.

And that is your sickness. You care about and believe in every gossip you hear on the internet. Forget gossip.

Remember when Archer and "Doctor" Plox let an entire planet die because "evolution" told them to? How retarded. Some heroes.

Nevermind then, I thought I was arguing with a person for a while there and not a goon.

You have no argument whatsoever. Typical.

Remember the time we saw their evil counterparts in the other dimension. The evil versions were more interesting and likable than the real characters.

Remember when dumb Ferengi took over the ship and tried to loot knicknacks, instead of taking the ship itself?

Please let this meme die. It had a couple of really great episodes but those just don't make up for the massive amount of garbage that occurred in between them.

Never forget Wesley and Troi were both prominently featured in TNG.

Ding ding ding, it's the \tv\ cuck again.

Never forget Kira was the main character in almost every episode

Also, Wesley and Troi being terrible is just an internet meme, the truly awful TNG characters were Pulaski, Yar, and Ro.

How can they be worse than Wesley? They barely got any development

Worse than Wesley 'I saved the Enterprise single handedly more than 12 times, can constantly out-think even the top specialists aboard the Enterprise and have nothing but praise and adoration from most of the crew for my natural abilities, and yet I STILL can't get into Starfleet' Crusher?

Fuck no

At least Tits McGee has tits to redeem her. Wesley has nothing. The best TNG season is season 6 because Wesley is nowhere to be found.

The other three can be the worst characters because every moment they're onscreen is agonizing. They're hyper bitchy and whiny, yet supposed to be sympathetic. That they get rapidly ejected from the show (and that Yar's actress plays a related and far superior character) is to its credit.

As for Wesley, his hypercompetence is exaggerated in the fandom (he frequently gets help from Data and Geordi, in particular), as is his infallibility (he screws up, both the character and the show don't pretend otherwise). Yes, he's a self-insert Stu, but he's hardly ridiculous Rey Mixer levels of broken. Face it, you're just repeating a maymay, and a really silly one on par with "Navi is unbearably annoying" at that.

Have I ever told you about the rape gangs on Earf, user?

He made one major screw up, and that episode was after Roddenberry died and couldn't do shit.

It's not a meme, Wesley is endlessly irritating both IRL and on-screen. Irritating to look at and even more irritating to listen to.

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I made it through nearly 3 seasons of that trash.
I'm still crawling through the last 2 seasons of Voyager right now.

Ent, is shit.
If you actually enjoy trek and care about the over arching plot and world, then Ent is the biggest piece of cancer in star trek creation. (bigger than Wil Wheaton)

I haven't seen SF Debris videos on Ent yet personally, seen almost all his Voyager episodes though, but that was only after actually having watched nearly all of Voyager.
All he did was validate some of my preexisting opinions, and point out some shit I missed on first viewing.

Keep defending that continuity breaking trash though.

Come on Will Wheaton, don't you have better things to do instead of browsing Holla Forums?

You guys, I just rewatched 'Silicon Avatar' last night and I'm so glad I waited to rewatch it because, dayum, it is fucking goood.

The actress who played the scientist (Ellen Geer) was incredible, and while a bit hammy and over the top, her pathos was on point.

Just wanted to share.

Thank you for letting us know user, we appreciate your input.

This is the woman who killed the Crystalline Entity right?

She did nothing wrong. Not even in a joke sense, she was actually a hero.

This is your real problem with it, you take it too seriously.

Never forget that Picard sided with a planet destroying snowflake and even compared her dead son to plankton.

Picard was more or less an EU bureaucrat.

He fucked over Federation citizens - the Indians - when the Cardassians took their lands.

Then when the Baku -not Federation citizens- were in the same situation he sided with them.

It's not my only problem with it.
But if it just breaks a shitload of established lore
then it can't be taken seriously as a Trek show.
I still went through a few seasons of it, and I just didn't like it that much.
Didn't like the characters, thought the plotlines were weak, and every time they kept breaking lore it bothered me.

So, shit on top of shit.

Not sure why you enjoy it so much.
It has many of the same sins as Voyager does, but Voyager makes up for it with some pretty dece stand alone episode, and entertainment value with the schlock.

The Indians didn't give him no pussy.

He didn't ask.

He shouldn't need to ask - he's the Captain

TRIPS FOR TRUMP

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Typical burger logic