Libertarians have hijacked and ruined all modern political discourse...

>>380665266Shut up authoritarian.

>>380665266>Goddam those radical libertarians don't even want hair length laws

>>380668693>t. strawmanning libcuck

>>380665266I think a lot of libertarians don’t want to acknowledge how close to satanism their ideology is; it’s a very “do what thou wilt” mindset, pretty close to egoism, and would probably only work for people with a traditionalist right wing moral structure. No way in hell it’d ever work for anything bigger than a small town.>>380668157Nietzsche was a blind, gimpy bitch that wrote about shit he didn’t have the sack to do. Mises and Hoppe are better, and not as convoluted.>>380668163Underrated

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>>380665266>Thanks to them you now get accused of being a "leftist" and "socialist" for wanting government lawsthat's not a libertarian thing, it's a right-wing thing. Libertarians call you people authoritarian

>>380669050>No way in hell it’d ever work for anything bigger than a small town.you've got it backwards frennational government should be extremely libertarian so that you are free to have your authoritarian Footloose town

uhm sorry the government taxing people any amount, that sounds like literal communism to me leftie

>>380669050>No way in hell it’d ever work for anything bigger than a small town.Thats the point, you moron. It's the anti-globohomo ideology.>egoismYou say that like it's something bad.>it’s a very “do what thou wilt” mindset>Nooooooo people can't do what they want they need to obey someone!By the way, authoritarian statists are truly evil and satanic.

>>380669254What I mean is that it would never reach a national level, hence my point about moral populations. The US was founded by white nationalists, and that’s not a smear; they assumed we’d stay European and Christian, with a landowning, moral elite handling shit because the whoring drunkards couldn’t be trusted. It may have worked back then, but now there’s too many niggers, too much cultural admixture to even dream of a libertarian government. There’s not a single group that immigrates to the US that doesn’t vote hard left. Except for maybe Cubans, and even then, only the ones that lived through Castro’s bullshit.

>>380669989>Nooooooo people can't do what they want they need to obey someone!Not everyone, but the ones that are the minority but control the majority of everything, they have to obey the majority, otherwise this is just a societal suicide>By the way, authoritarian statists are truly evil and satanic.This just reads as a lolbert desperately trying to fit into anti-satanic crowd, but doing so very poorly with very little evidence

>>380665266Libertarians without any ethnic nationalism are just nihilist retard liberals and worse than marxists.

>>380669989>anti globohomoBullshit. They’ll buy private property next to you and set up shop. Only Hoppe dove deep into physical removal, maybe Rockwell too, and even most lol beets don’t have the stones to use their ten AR15s to forcibly remove immortal filth. Too many are too attached to their precious NAP.>they need to obey something>you must be a StAtIsTDamn straight they do, and I didn’t say I was a statist. Total freedom is not a blessing, and rules matter. I don’t have a problem with people voluntarily following order from a state they choose. The US government won’t let it happen because too many people would be fine without them, making them useless. Biblical law is key here.

>>380670358>minority but control the majority of everything>they have to obey the majoritylol, lmao evenenjoy your fragile social order>very little evidence>conform or be punishedliterally satan btw

>>380670358I’ve never seen a lolbert stand against abortion with any significant arguments, just some crap about how the womb is a woman’s private property and they can “evict” babies if they want to. It’s a thin veneer for most of the people who embrace it; strip it off, and it’s a retard who wants to do a shitload of drugs and shoot guns in his 200 sq ft backyard. They Never talk about morality, and only ever focus on the economics. I get that they’re linked, but the arguments are lopsided.

>>380671236Yes, by natural order the minority of people will always gain control of majority of assets, and all attempts to prevent this have ended poorly (look at communism)So the best thing we can do is force them to obey us. Simple as that

>>380671236>conform or be punished>literally Satan!Wrong, satan always presents a choice. That’s the Faustian bargain. He only ever presents a choice, sets the stage, offers temptation, but he cannot force you to act. You must decide. God punishes when his commandments are broken, and for good reason. You’ve got it backwards, and the doors to hell aren’t locked.

>>380670776Morality is not an excuse to commit crimes against the natural law.>Total freedom is not a blessing, and rules matter.Totality is globohomo, you midwit.>biblical lawBtw it was Christians who rewrote their books more than once and still have schisms in their religion.

>>380665266The definition of what constitutes the "Collective" is infinitely debatable and ultimately is defined by whatever the people with more guns says is the collective. Thus skepticism of all collectivism is warranted.

>>380671530I think it's just the other way around. Because sure, you can make an argument that there are too many rules and taxes for ordinary citizen, but the fact is that it makes sense to have rules for the leaders, and there will always be leaders in groups of people. So they resort to morality: "Sure it may not be ideal, but it is X company's RIGHT to do this!" for example. Without libertarian morality the premise falls apart because if we are talking about what benefits the most people, you can always compare a libertarian no tax system with private police and all, and a system in which 90% of people don't pay taxes, and the rest goes to police, courts, libraries, army, osha and whatnot. And most would agree that the latter would be better for the majority of the country

>>380665266Fuck off commie.

>>380668157>Get fucked, tardLibertarianism is cuck morality

>>380672223>The definition of what constitutes the "Collective" is infinitely debatableWhoever we agree to give the citizenship to becomes part of the collective, which is every citizen. Was that hard

>>380672223>ultimately is defined by whatever the people with more guns says is the collectiveThat applies to literally every word and concept

>>380671804>thinking that choices are evil>conform or be punished>God punishes when his commandments are broken, and for good reason>You’ve got it backwardsI rest my case, this is peak retardation

>>380671959Natural law is built upon hierarchical structure, something most libertarians aren’t huge fans of. They’re closer to leftists than they care to admit, and hide behind the “only the strong will survive” point when the vast majority of them are living in city apartments and wouldn’t last a week in a rural environment where you have to plant and slaughter what you eat.>totality is globohomo>words I don’t like make the other person stupid, lol owned noobTotality doesn’t just apply to authoritarianism. Stop shitting the bed, get triggered over prefixes you don’t like.>Christians rewrote things and don’t always agreeI’m sure every lolbert in ancapistan would get along fine, with no revision of rules and no conflict, and they’d all live perfectly moral lives and they’d all just get along. In other news, marxists finally figured out how to wheat in five minutes!

>>380665266> homosexualsyes> abortionyes> pornographyyes> divorceyes> marijuanano, because it was used in the ancient near east and the Bible doesn't mention it> immigrantslegitimate function of government> interracial marriagesjust because it's a bad idea doesn't mean it should be illegal> transsexualsyes> Muslimsjust repeal snivel rights and let me "not be unequally yoked with unbelievers"> fat peoplewhatever> taxing imported productslegitimate function of government, to be decided politically> not letting women votewhatever> ugly laws???> long hair on men and atheists1 Cor 11 says men should have short hair, just repeal snivel rightsyou left out> usury

>>380665266They are glowniggers and they are irrevelant

>>380665266Good. Laws are dumb. Use them sparingly.

Keep asking the government for help, let me know how that works out for you. Unless you're a fag or minority you ain't getting a fucking thing

>>380671727>force them to obey usit's so fragile it's sad

>>380673277>wouldn’t last a week in a rural environment where you have to plant and slaughter what you eat.That is the catch. Libertarians hide behind "free market" which means that physical strength, or ability to survive in the wild are irelevant. The winner is instead the one who happens to stumble into the most land to just "claim" it or a person with large business that gets the most customers

>>380673473Libertarianism is literally the rule of minority in practice

>>380672279I can see that, sure, but my point is that they tend to ignore Why company X is right in the first place, and focus on convenience.>but no taxes you guys!>infinite creature comforts from le free market you guys!>legal drugs and recreational nukes you guys!It’d be a nightmare. I can see tax reform, sure, but most of the libertarian fantasy sounds exactly like jewish tricks meant to subvert a nation.

>>380673573That's the best you could come up with in 15 minutes?

>>380665266Libertarianism was always a meme sold to republicans who wanted to smoke weed and have buttsex.

"Muh puritans. Muh christcucks"They spit this same type of rhetoric in every thread, even on non-topic ones. Why?

>>380673784You don't need the third party for these basic entertainments.

>>380673687State rulers are the minority in all forms of government

>>380673217I didn’t say choices are evil, I said that satan always presents a choice and the idea that forced conformity is satanic is false. Try again.>b-b-but, I called you a retard!Refute an argument or fuck off

>>380674104You can vote them out at least. Contrast this to being ruled by large land owners that have irrevokable right to do whatever they want on their property and have infinite power over everyone who happens to use it

>>380673277>Natural law is built upon hierarchical structureholy shit, man, do your reading first, ffs>Totality doesn’t just apply to authoritarianismProof or gtfo>no confluct, moral lives, getting alongNice commie strawman.So, tell me, why are you so upset about muh morality? Libertarians say that morality shouldn't be meddled with by ideology or state, but christfags and commies are literally seething at this.

>>380673892Because the answer to satanic libertarianism is biblical law. They’re edgy Sam Harris atheist leftists masquerading as free market capitalists.

>>380674249>You can vote them out at least.Even if that was true, voting is controlled by the media.

>>380674420>ChristfagsLike clockwork

>>380674420>Libertarians say that morality shouldn't be meddled with by ideology or stateThat in inself a form of cuck morality

>>380673601>"free market" means that physical strength, or ability to survive in the wild are irelevant>large business>winnerYou can't relieve yourself from your totalitarian patterns of thought, do you?

>>380673709They are usually the types who want to run a business, but they fail and blame the government for it. They think that in a "truly free market" they would be another musk or something. They are unique in that they are usually poor people, but they are so convinced in their own superiority that they believe that it is everyone else's fault

>>380674770So what are you trying to say? Winners, free market and large business are totalitarian?Lmao

>>380674601Sure, but the media can only do so much. If a leader is actively harming you then you always vote him out. Sometimes it takes a lot, to the point where the people have a hard time getting by, but once that point is reached, there is ALWAYS a rebellion, followed by a change

>>380675100Completely delusional.

>>380674420>do your readingNot an argument.>proof about totalityI’m talking about the word and it’s use in describing the nature of any given system; total freedom, total control, etc. are you talking about totalitarianism exclusively? Because if so, we might be talking past each other by mistake.>you’re a commie if you care about morality!Communists are scum, everyone knows that; their societies display the absence of biblical law and morality in every way and you know it. The straw man accusation is sheer projection.>morality shouldn’t be meddled with by ideologyPolitical, maybe, but morality and religious ideology go hand in hand. Unless the political system is theocratic. Libertarians love to fantasize about the innovations of the free market and sperg over low prices for high quality shit, entertainment, and other comforts; it speaks to a life free of discomfort and struggle, and will collapse into degeneracy.

The deep state is pissed at us lolberts. Cocaine mitch and the gang are trying to lay their failures on others as usual. Republicans are mad that we ignore their gun laws.

>>380674727>cuck morality>nooooo people need to obey and be forced to be moral!Who is a cuck tho?

>>380675700>Who is a cuck tho?You abdicate power to your enemies for no reason.

>>380675470False. Look at history. No propaganda helps you if you don't have anything to eat

>>380669254no because inevitably leftists would move in and forcible change your culture

>>380675826>No propaganda helps you if you don't have anything to eatYou can't vote food into existence

>>380674819So, textbook narcissism by another name. This explains the “it would work if I planned it out!” mentality you get from them while they bitch about communism for the same reason.>but people would act out of self interest in a moral wayNo one really believes that. Libertarians want so badly to not pay taxes and have their own castles and not have anyone tell them what to do, when all of that is possible in the US with private membership organizations; they can build their paradise, but come up with every excuse not to. It is no different than some deluded dipshit who would be a super genius if only the Huber mint wasn’t there.

>>380676096Gubermint*Phoneposting sucks.

>>380675939Usually there is enough food, distribution is the problem. You can for example vote to subsidize farming and cut farmer taxes if there is not enough food

>>380675472>Not an argument.It's not an argument, it's a signal for syncronization of semantics.>are you talking about totalitarianism exclusivelyNo, I'm talking about totality as a property of a model.>morality and religious ideology go hand in handWhy would religion claim a monopoly on morality?>Libertarians love to fantasize about the innovations of the free market>life free of discomfort and struggleThat's a strawman.

>>380665266Most who choose to say that they are "libertarian" are typically ones who dont want to identify with one side or the other because they see through the hegalian dialectic whether they know it or not. Also you glow like fuck

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>>380676472>Why would religion claim a monopoly on morality?Libertarians are deontologically cucked

>>380674249The state effectively owns all the land/property within its territory by having the power to legislate laws, and as having final say in all disputes involving itself.Political groups make it so that even if you vote out one person there are numerous senators, representatives, and beneficents of that group, that will continue with their policies.Futhermore state also has public opinion or "mythology" on its side which allows them control over such large populations and territory in the first place. Private property owners have huge hurdles to overcome in order to reach the levels of exploitation/aggression the state does.

>>380676405>You can for example vote to subsidize farming and cut farmer taxes if there is not enough foodThat would be nice, but in practice it doesn't happen. We plebs aren't asked to help craft policies, at best we get a referendum. You could vote for someone who has expert teams ready to deal with whatever crisis is going on.

>>380675810>implying that meddling with morality bolsters powerListen, Russians felt it on themselves in the past century. Communists blew up churches to instill a new faith, a faith in power of communes. Look where it got you.Meddling with humanity wiil doom any system and social order.

>>380665266Libertarians are just faggot neckbeards

>>380676472>it’s a signalStill didn’t address what I said. If you can, we’ll talk. Relax, I was a libertarian; I’ve read the books. Let’s discuss.>property of a modelSo you’re opposed to anything about a model being total in any aspect? How is this not getting triggered over a word? Or am I missing something?>why would religion claim moral monopolyBecause God is the ultimate creator and judge of all things and we are made in his image; his laws are clear and absolute. Don’t think we’ll agree on this one.>that’s a straw manIt’s not. Every libertarian model aims for maximum luxury, security and ease delivered by an unrestricted market. I’m not saying they shouldn’t want that, I’m saying it’ll devolve into degeneracy, and quick.

>>380677077Don't know about you but here if you get 40,000 signatures for a policy, you can demand a referendum. Happened multiple times. Sadly there are some limitations, like you can't have a referendum on army or foreign policy, but in terms of economics there is a lot of freedom in terms of referendums

>>380668157A man chooses, a slave obeys.

>>380676866>deontologically cucked>natural rights, self-ownership, social contractsDo your read lolball comics to inform your views?

>>380677171Libertarianism is a pagan hebrew cult

>>380677171So let's take a look at history shall we? Sure, having a totalitarian government with too much power didn't work out. But having too little didn't work either. Remember Teddy Roosevelt? I am assuming you are an american. He increased the size of the government, but he also improved the quality of life, which records show. Also whenever you go into a park you can thank him for that.

>>380677624He probably doesn't even understand what deontological means

>>380665266Yeah all that expansion of government in the early 20th century to weed out socialism and communism and beat the ebil commie russians really worked well for you didn't it?Cuckservatives have this infantile belief that they can just mould government how they want and it will operate like that in perpetuity. Right-libertarians (aka actual libertarians) are the only political group that understands how government works, that it will only ever work towards its own enlargement and power and that all of its institutions will inevitably become subverted. Lefties and cuckservatives are kinda made for each other, they both take turns destroying a society.

>>380677051You are acting like the state is some sort of organism with consciousness and it's own mind. it is not. It is simply a tool. A powerful and amazing tool in the hands of the majority and a terrible and horrifying tool in the hands of the minority. If your government is not accountable, there are ways to tackle that with more direct democracy, no need to go full anarchist

>>380677979Correct. For the record, the reason why this happens is that unless you push back against it, others will always trade liberty for safety, but most importantly, they will trade my liberty for their safety.

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>>380665266all correct. All who disagree are faggots and degenerates.

>>380677979>Right-libertarians (aka actual libertarians) are the only political group that understands how government works, that it will only ever work towards its own enlargement and power and that all of its institutions will inevitably become subverted.And what's the proposed solution to that?

>>380677979Your point about about subversion is correct when the government isn’t based on theological morality. I think the west could learn from Orthodox/Muslim societies; no, their innovation isn’t the best or most rapid, and they have their issues, but I don’t believe libertarians would have as much of a problem with government if the government wasn’t incentivized to grow to the behemoth it is now.>but it always is!Maybe so, but I’d rather see what a Christian theocracy with an emphasis on ethnic preservation could do before letting dipshit NeoCons take the reins.

>>380665266You don't understand that the welfare of society is going to be better under libertarianism because being evil is stupid and unprofitable. The only argument in the running against us is that libertarianism is anarchy and defenseless, to which the reply is a night watch state.

>>380677463We have that, but I don't know the exact number you need, I think it differs based on what you want to change, or in what area you want to change it. Like some small town would need less signatures for some local infrastructure project, than someone form Belgrade or Novi Sad.Don't know about you guys, but I don't know of a single policy that was changed that way. It's usually that the government fucks up or is selling us out, we protest and get signatures, then in most cases they stop. But that is reactive, I would like to see some proactive action like that, but most people don't care about politics here, shits corrupt to the core.

>>380678341Oligarchy and suffering in the name of the freedom (NOOOO, X is a private company, it can do what it wants!!!11). The quickest way to get to centralized for profit business media and unchecked subversion

>>380665266Aw schucksies bro wants everyone to behavesies.Tell me your gaming habits.How much porn do you consume?Bmi?

>>380665266Have one of your corrupt politicians point out that democrats shoot up schools. I triple dog dare you, bitchcon vaxtard.Don't forget to butter your democrat school shooter in training's buns again this year for them at Thanksgiving. Pussy.

>>380668903it's literally in OPs post you esl cunt

>>380678867OP is just a faggot as usual. If he's not a jew or zogbot he's been affected by the rhetoric as you can see by his seemingly pointless seething at wealth

>>380678792>gaming barely any, down from 20 hours a week to more like 5-10>porn working on kicking habit atm, down to only once a week or every to two to three weeks>bmi25 and lean muscle not skinny fat faggot

>>380678549Two examples I know:In 2014 a left wing government wanted to enact gay marriage and adoption. Majority didn't agree. Signatures. Referendum. 70% against. Law didn't pass. It was the adoption part that was the problem, otherwise most wouldn't care.And in 2021 there was a law by the right wing government that would enable property owners to build "simple objects" such as shacks, ads, near the water, such as rivers, lakes, etc. There were signatures, referendum. 87% against. And when a law falls the government must not propose a similar law for the next 2 years (I believe it is 2 but it could be 4)

>>380678273he isn't coming

>>380678885Is OP representative of every non libertarian? Just because long hair laws are stupid does not mean all laws are stupid

>>380679153I know, just a good post lolberts are the most insufferable faggots.

>>380671530>just some crap about how the womb is a woman’s private property and they can “evict” babies if they want to.Who even cares about women, a no holds barred libertarianism would see women defunct

>>380679526>women defunctYou mean birthing pods? Or what is your aim?

>>380679269>if you pull the string too tight it snaps, if you let it too loose it makes no musicOur principle disagreement is what laws are necessary, we by and large find the natural laws to be enough. Do you never consider the natural laws that the government prevents to protect the evil? You might not be calling for long hair laws, but are you going to allow bailouts?

>>380679704The economics of the female just doesn't add up, as soon as viable replacement is found women will be replaced assuming there's no system of tradition to save them.

>>380679916>get rid of women entirelyNo thanks user I do not want babies grown by corporate dystopia vat. Women's primary role is to rear and nurture children from the beginning and Man's is to provide and protect for the family. Any deviation for this is recipe for the death of civilization or at least a decline in cultural output and significance.

>>380680289>dystopiaIt would literally be the most desirable possible scenario based on voting with wallets but ok

>>380677440>Natural law is built upon hierarchical structureNatural law is about dynamics of hierarchies, not about it's perservation. Stoics understood this better than Christians.>So you’re opposed to anything about a model being total in any aspectGodel theorem exists. A total model is the least useful, and it shows on bigger scales. I don't like when people try to solve inherently nonlinear economics with linear models, because they make them fragile in pursuit of clarity and control.The same applies to any complex system, be it the biological organism, the individual, the group, or the state.>God is the ultimate creator and judge of all things>his laws are clear and absolute>Don’t think we’ll agree on this oneYou are correct. My suspicions about singular God being a human illusion because of the Godel theorem are really strong. Monism and dualism are really primitife aspects of human modes of thought.>it’ll devolve into degeneracy, and quickMorality is not a good safeguard against failure states of social fragitily.People say that they develop morality, but it's just the natural law. They are trying to teach birds how to fly, and then they do, they take credit for it, when they dont - birds are immoral and inherently evil, so to speak.

>>380679095So you are telling me people as they get older learn to take care of themselves and others? Guard rails are for children, and that is the job of parents, not the state.

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>>380679796>but are you going to allow bailouts?The bailouts question is complex. If the economy is structured in such a way that everyone relies on some 10 corporations and they go bankrupt, then pretty much a bailout needs to happen, because you can't just let entire economy collapse and everyone die. BUT the issue is that the economy was structured like that in the first place. There should be at least 5 companies in every sector competing. But if this for some reason does not happen automatically, then the government needs to break them apart. Sure many economists think that large companies perform better because of economy of scale, but I think that in the long term it would be better if they were a little smaller and there would be more of them. The only time when the government may put money into a private entity is when it buys something from it, or when it buys shares of the company, all of these of course need to be transparent and visible on some website weeks ahead so that the people can complain if they think the government is getting a bad deal

>>380680737you're calling for way higher levels of regulation than we currently have

>>380680434>voting with walletshave you seen the election system here? That is what it is. Jews and other managerial class buy election results and candidate values. >dystopiait is user, corporations running everything will inevitable result in same problem one runs into with Soviet style economy, mismanagement and exploitations. >>380680593guard rails protect society from elites who wrongfully use their powers and status to not benefit society but harm it. The State must have enforcement to prevent obesity for instance and other harmful traits like homosexuality, feminism , etc etc. The State's roles is to reinforce the traditionally values of state, while pushing technological improvement forward at a rapid pace.

>>380681213Antitrust?

The thing you authoritarians of both left and right desperately need to understand is that the welfare of society is not better off in your hands

>>380677801>I am assuming you are an americanI'm not, and I don't know American history good enough. Can't follow the specifics, sorry.>He increased the size of the government, but he also improved the quality of life, which records showSize of the government is not proportional to quality of life.

>>380681699Never said it was. But what I am saying is that it is not reversely proportional either. Rather, there is a golden mean where things work the best and this golden mean differentiates between nations based on how individualist/collectivist their culture is

>>380678087>It is simply a toolComplex systems are inherently stochastic.When you pretend that complex system is deterministic, you are playing god or just asking for it to blow in your face.

>>380681404>muh Enlighted centrismyou need to be 18 to post here. You cannot tell me society would was not better off when Empires or governments that increased technology will preserving traditional values is not superior. Preserving your culture and heritage but also, not stagnating like Qing China in technology.Also, under our hands our societies demographic decline would have never happened IE no demographic displacement or falling native birthrates.

>>380681979It is mostly deterministic in that it mostly does what it is told to do, discounting the corruption. You can say that it is not accountable, but that is usually the issue with democracy or lack thereof

>>380681300>>voting with wallets>have you seen the election system here? That is what it is. Jews and other managerial class buy election results and candidate values.And they do it through state powers>>dystopia>it is user, corporations running everything will inevitable result in same problem one runs into with Soviet style economy, mismanagement and exploitations.The idea here is that dystopic = unprofitable, and so you will fall behind other corporations if you become corrupt, same way corruption would make a nation fall behind really. A corporation could make a military, but a military can't control an armed populace, so again it's just unprofitable. Maybe all the corporations will conglomerate, and the resulting mega corp becomes corrupt with no competition to cast it aside. In that case, the whole thing just collapses. Honestly, all these inefficient systems and governments are ultimately doomed as well.

>>380682113who preserved you heritage before

>>380682450>but a military can't control an armed populaceNot the whole of it anyway. But a part of it? Yes.Would you die for someone else's property. Most libertarians don't even want to pay taxes for somebody else, and I think we all agree that giving your life is worse than giving your money

There is a way out that your American educational system has made you fear.

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>>380682880Libertarian, Conservative, Liberal and Social Democrat are the only real ideologies. Everything else is just larp.

>>380681300You seem like a genuine guy so I'll point you Carl Schmitt and his critique of liberalism.

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>>380683170>Stalin and Hitler were just larping

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>>380681300>Jews and other managerial class buy election results and candidate values.This is just cope for people who don't understand our political system, don't vote, or get involved with politics. You just want an excuse as to why you're so pathetic at what you do.

>>380682851anything beyond security is a losing venture

>>380683343Imagine thinking those people are relevant today. Of course you're fucking larper. Get your mom in the room so I can talk to you, kid. She needs to cut your internet access.

>>380665266So tell me, what's your favorite flavor of boot polish? Kiwi?

>>380683541Well, there is Kim Jong Un, who will nuke america any time now and establish worldwide totalitarian Juche

>>380683170>Libertarian, Conservative, Liberal and Social Democrat are the only real ideologies.Those are not political ideologies, those are sexual identities.

>>380683640They can't be if they're all gay

>>380682450>state powerWhat is SuperPACS?? A private entity. >what is Citizens Unitedcorporations are legally PEOPLE and can donate unending streams of money to candidate x. >>380683170all four are cringe and gay and do nothing to preserve ethnic identity. The best form of government takes what works from various forms of government or ideology. >corruptioncorruption is endemic in every society and the type that occurs is the key difference between success and failure. The undue consistency is if the private sector or government holds too much power, it undoubtedly become inefficient.>>380682674The government did by preventing mass immigration, gay marriage, abortion etc etc>>380683287I will check it out user thanks>>380683343fbpb>>380683431not a cope, lurk moar. Jews have pushed everything degenerate in modern society. One can break free though. >pic related for one example of this>>380683541>history does not matter?????

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>>380683632>Not a larper>Mentions a guy who larps about nukes while getting most of his from the UNGive me a fucking break, larper. Kim is literally begging the world to join the World Bank bro.

>>380683640They're more real than whatever larper belief system you follow that has no political power.

>>380683867>larps about nukes while getting most of his from the UNlolwut

>>380683865Bro, nothing you do preserves anything. You're just a larper, and nobody cares what you think. You spend all your time online being anonymous and being safe from your mom's basement. You are not a serious person, and not someone who will ever be respected. Stop larping, bro. Its embrassing. You're clearly just a couple degrees away from being doxed by Kiwifarms because you're most likely a lolcow that lives with your parents.

>>380683504You didn't answer my question. If there were stalinists nationalizing some local landlord, would you die for his property? Especially if there was more of them than of you?

>>380683865It is all larp. If you had serious politics - you wouldn't be on 4chan. Everyone would know your name. You would have some political power or recognition. You have none. You're a loser, and a low life, that hangs out on 4chan all day because you're a NEET with no friends.

>>380684317Feeling superior today, are we?

>>380684276>If there were stalinists nationalizing some local landlord, would you die for his property? Especially if there was more of them than of you?I'd give just about anything to shoot a commie on American soil up to and including my life.

>>380683710underrated>>380684146>broyou must be 18 to post here>larpernope. I live the life I preach, employed and looking for better place to live since just got a better job. Life is good and it gets better. >>380684317>neetI am employed good sir. >on 4chan all dayso 1-2 hours a day makes 24 hours??

>>380684498Then you are a retard. Most wouldn't and you would die for nothing

>>380684317I have power over your mom

>>380684443>>380684670>>380684716If you have to hide who you are to do politics; you've failed at it. That's how I know you're a larper. Thiel doesn't hide who he is. Trump didn't hide. Lenin didn't hide. Hitler didn't hide. FDR didn't hide who he was - but you do. That's because you're a loser that's larping. Its so obvious. People with effective politics don't hide who they are. They don't have to because they actually have support. You don't you. You just sit on the internet and talk shit. You're the guy who would sequel in from of a judge like Atomwaffen did. We both know this. You can stop.

>>380665266Libertarians are fucking fags dude. They don't offer any actual answers to any of our problems. I agree with alot of their sentiments about big govt and overreach

>>380684860>They don't offer any actual answers to any of our problems>I agree with alot of their sentiments about big govt and overreachlolwut

>wants to regulate homosexuals, transsexuals, and pornographyQuit obsessing over genitals you don't own, please. Society is collectively healthier when people mind their own business on these subjects. Yes, including pornography.>wants to regulate abortionDid you know the majority of women seeking abortions already have kids? They want to focus on providing better childcare to the kids they have already! Similarly, women without kids are making mature, responsible decisions with regard to abortion, and it prevents kids from being raised in abusive or incapable households. Why should children be sacrificed to satisfy the bloodthirsty god of "pro-life" activists? Anti-abortionists are a blood cult!

>>380684317I just got off work. I start at 3am. I do more in A day than you do in a week. You faggot quadroon

>>380665266Hi Spencer.

>>380668157>overweight lolbert faggot thinks Nietzsche would support his degenerate ideology

>>380684813I don't do politcs. I do your mom.

>>380684813I can tell you for myself that I don't give a shit about any of this irl. For all I care I could live under Juche or libertarian capitalism, what matters is that everyone is fed and has free speech and right to privacy. So no serious politics needed

Libertarianism is like communism. Its actually a perfect philosophy but only works in a fantasy world where evil men dont exist.

>>380684813I do not hide. At all. Ever. How do I sent on the internet all day when I have work to do as well??? That makes little sense.

>>380681913>there is a golden mean>individualist/collectivistdialectical thinking assumes the existence of a convergent mean, and that assumption is provided out of the thin air.Dynamics can be oscillating, there may be critical points, bifurcations, what have you. "The mean" model is inexcusably simplistic.>>380682354>is not accountable, but that is usually the issue with democracy or lack thereofDemocracy is logically incoherent. All the debates about its fundamentals will never be convergent.Corruption is inevitable. Non-accountability is inevitable. I'm concerned with how to make the systems fuck-ups local. Usual and simple answer comes to the reduction or abolition of a state.

>>380684678>you're a retard for refusing to live under communismNo, I just value freedom more than survival. Something you europeons know nothing about.

>>380685428No, you would die for someone else not losing his property. You are one of those tools that neocons send into Iraq to "bring freedom and democracy" only to die there to a taliban and nothing changes

>>380685137the biggest problem with libertarianism is the NAP. It's fucking stupid. We should be proactively shooting commies, fascists, and all authoritarians.

>>380685554>haha why do you care if commies come for your neighborbecause they'll come for me next you stupid bootlicker.

>>380665266>We need big government but for good things!Every power you give to the government eventually will be used against you. You just can't understand this simple thing.Otherwise if freedom of association would be actually legal you could create white heterosexual living areas and you wouldn't have to care about nigger faggots.The government is the source of your problems.

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>>380685696No you would just die for nothing. I am sure that saint Peter would care about your story, but it wouldn't help you in any way. I can tell you that I wouldn't do shit unless somebody comes after the majority of people

>>380685889>Libertarianism: Ideas so good they produce nothing but poverty and failed states

>>380671530Some gay niggers in a big house far away don't, can't and won't dictate morality, faggot. Why is this so hard for you "non leftists" to understand?

remember frens, the people who started (((libertarianism )))is jewish.Ayn Rand and Milton Freidman started it>pic when a jew sees you are a lolbert

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>>380686061this

>>380675638LOLAll they do is build military bases for China with Mitch and rob their grandchildren for social security money they let school shooting democrats squander. IDC if they are 500lbs and could bench press a truck- they're the biggest pussies on Earth emotionally. At least the school shooting democrat will scream and holler if they don't like something a republican did... Republicans, nah, they sit there and let their kids get shot.

>>380665266how do you ban faggots you raging faggot?sounds like you need to relocate to saudi arabia or any other islamic shithole where you'd feel more in line with the local culture.

>>380685982Countries with the smallest government are the wealthiest. Get a job you lazy fat commie!

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>>380685897>I can tell you that I wouldn't do shit unless somebody comes after the majority of peoplethat's because europeons are cowards who would rather live under a boot than die free.>st peterthey also believe in fairy tales apparently

>>380686488>HeritageLMAO heritage rated my country "mostly free" while also saying that more than half of our economy is owned or controlled by state. Heritage even said we are more economically free than you, when you have 10% corporate tax and we have 25%! Heritage just manipulates their data by including "judicial efficiency", "corruption" in the index which are objectively good but have nothing with economics.Heritage is the most obvious subversion of the decade

>>380677463>if you get 40,000 signatures for a policy, you can demand a referendumI think the parlament considers the referendum and makes a vote on whether it will happen.They can reject it if I remember correctly.

>>380686782No otherwise they would do it for water referendum and gay referendum. I think it's the constitutional court who does this

>>380686488The reality is that libertarian economic policies are a complete disaster. Milton friedman was clapping when Boris Yeltsin was doing privatization in Russia, and you know what happened? The biggest peace-time fall in life expectancy, child prostitution and 3 million people dead. That's the real life implications of libertarian policy

>>380665266>we need supreme masters of kikes to rule over us so they could ban few things I don't like despite the fact they will regulate and ban every single good thing that makes society an organic and healthy mechanismI fucking hate westoids so much it's unreal

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>>380687251I wish I could send you back to the 90s stupid teen. Or better yet go to somalia and see for yourself

>>380686856I didn't even hear anything about there being signatures regarding the water, are you sure that wasn't the opposition that set it in motion?As for the gay thing yeah it was the court that set the referendum for it but I don't think that was due to signatures. I think the signatures referendum they can actually vote on it. I certainly know there are other countries who have that kind of system, like the UK.

>>380686737Sure it's not the perfect measure and your cherry picking also doesn't refute anything. But the concept is easily understandable: Freest men can do the most for themselves. This is why freedom creates the most wealth.Either you don't understand true freedom with all of it's consequences or you just want to be a leech on others.