Lets talk about war with Iran. I really get the feeling America is going to end up in another war soon rather than later. And the war drum seems to beat towards either North Korea or Iran. War makes money and it will distract the American public from the absolute shit state of things here. I really can't help but think about what catastrophe it would be. Firstly look at the Iraq war:
Iraq had a population of ~25 million
Americans suffered ~5,000 casualties & spent well over a trillion dollars.
Iraqis suffered hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions displaced, and complete destabilization of the country and neighbors.
Iraq was also pretty weak after the first gulf war and years of economic sanctions and was not ready to fight a war.
Now look at Iran:
Iran has a population of 80 million and actually has a function military that can both fight in the air and in the sea. There is no way a war would be, as resident fuck-wit, tom cotton says: a cake walk.
What do you guys think? Will it happen? Will it be total cluster?
War with Iran
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All I know is that I'll never forgive the shitty Islamist theocrats smashing the leftists who participated in the revolution.
the only reason why Iran wont be batista-bombed into last millenium is because they have China and Russia backing them, sorry but the US can and will easily beat any single army in conventional warfare
Iran has hypersonic missiles, so a sea invasion is impossible. That leaves land invasion and bombing raids, followed by occupation. Land invasion is no fucking fun in a desert, and Iran would stage a massive insurgency if placed under occupation. As for bombings, they have competent AA and would utterly wreck USA's pathetic F35.
Iran actually could coordinate cells in the US to do insane damage against us and it would cause a fascist anti-Islam wave of reaction that would probably permanently crush leftism in this country and rule out us achieving socialism in time to stop global warming from killing us all.
Even without competent AA, despite idiot saudi and american generals beliefs, no war has been won with air superiority alone.
It’s far more likely that we will see a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia, they are already engaged in numerous proxy conflicts in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen. With that many proxy wars raging degeneration into a real war is a genuine possibility, especially when you have Saudi and Iranian troops directly participating. This is also made worse by Bin Salman’s aggressive bull-in-china-shop tier foreign policy.
Whether or not the US will get involved directly is hard to say. It will depend on the KSA’s performance against Iran in the war, which at this point is unknowable. The two are evenly matched due to differing strengths and weaknesses. For example KSA has endless wealth, and the shiniest, most expensive military money can buy. However it’s officers and soldiers are often notoriously incompetent, and rely in large part on mercenaries to operate their more sophisticated equipment. Saudi pilots are literally afraid to fly through clouds, and military positions are handed out to family members and nobles based on birth. Basically KSA is a European medieval feudal state with modern technology and fucktons of oil money. Their political system is deeply flawed and primitive. For example individual organs of government are the exclusive fiefdoms of individual nobles who are held to the crown by pledges of loyalty. It’s extremely unstable and there are a million cracks that can be exploited by a clever enemy.
Iran on the other hand is far less well funded and equipped (they use a lot of Western Cold War era gear leftover from the Shah), however their military is meritocratic like any other modern army, and it’s officers have proven themselves extremely capable in Iraq and Syria. The state itself is also far more modern, and is structured like a proper nation state. So it will be a question of the Saudis throwing endless streams of money at extremely skilled and experienced Iranian commanders and troops.
If the Saudis begin to lose, then it’s likely the Americans will intervene directly, since the collapse of Saudi regime would be catastrophic.
The real questions are if the US media justify War if done by trump and if the liberal will be anti war just because trump started it.
Dont know which one i want to see win, though im biased against the US
Amerika isn't going to invade Iran. That would be fucking stupid. They'll just do what they're doing in Syria: train some proxies or stage a coup a la Guatemala in the 50s.
We literally have a manchild in office surrounded by retarded neocons. And plus, the Iraq war and Afghan war were fucking stupid but that didnt stop us either
Its not stupid it achieved its purpose
and a fuck up of a war against iran wouldn't?
iran is too close to the persian gulf
and burger military doctrine is all about carriers and air superiority
take it from them, and they will be like blind kittens, shitting their pants without air cover
Russia is in the best position to fight burgers
northern ports are closed in winter and black sea has a Crimea which is basically a giant land carrier
Americans don't have much experience in managing long supply lines on land, especially when facing a total guerilla warfare russian style
I personally think if some submarines managed to sink a couple of carriers in the black sea harbor it would be a major blow to the morale
burgers love their expensive toys
different goals
I know that the principled thing to do would be to condemn both of them as authoritarian reactionary shitholes, which they are. That being said Saudi Arabia is such a cancerous shithole spreading their diseased Wahhabist excrement everywhere that I would probably side with fucking ISIS if it meant the end of the Saudis. It’s the only country in the world I would be okay with nuking into a parking lot.
At least Iran has a decent level of democracy and is progressive on certain issues.
Forgot to take off my porkyposting flag.
Question: why is Israel okay with Russia being in the Middle East when Russia is propping up the Palestinians' only remaining Arab ally?
I’m perplexed by it too. It seems that their interests in the region are opposed in every possible way, with the only exception being their mutual support for the Kurds.
because Putin is a jew
Putin and Bibi collaborate a lot.
Yes but what I can’t figure out is why. They back opposite sides in Syria and across the ME generally. There is no question that the Turkey-KSA-America-Israel axis is opposed to the Russia-Syria-Iran-Hezbollah axis. I just don’t know where Israel and Russia would find any common ground at least on foreign policy. They probably have good economic relations, the two could be on opposite sides of bloody conflicts but if Russian and Israeli porkies are friends then Russia and Israel will be friends I suppose. That’s the only explanation I can think of.
Hopefully they nuke Israel, so at least we'll have that.
Nuking Israel would mean the deaths of millions of Palestinians too. There's literally 10 miles between Tel Aviv and the West Bank.
Or, Israel sees Russia as a fair player in the region.
At this point, it would actually be better for Israel in the long-term to keep Assad in power, since Assad will have to sell Israel the Julan/Golan in order to pay for years of war destruction and shitty neoliberalesque policies which started the civil war in the first place.
Israel already has the Golan Heights under its occupation and has had them since 1967 so what do you mean by "Assad will have to sell Israel the Julan/Golan" Why would they buy it from him if they've already stolen it?
No one recognizes the Golan as part of Israel though. Assad will HAVE to sell them off officially.
Lmao
Iran would get flattened by America in a conventional war. Each carrier is defended by an entire battle group whose only purpose is to shoot down incoming missile and aircraft threats to the carrier.
The following insurgent and occupation would be exceptionally bloody and expensive though.
1) Iran is not an arab country, if that's what you're talking about.
2)Egypt*, Iraq and Syria are are all pretty anti-Israel and often straight up anti-semitic. It doesn't do any good because they're all both economocally and militarily small compared to Israel.
*Egypt's government is bought and run by the US and they still diplomatically recognize Israel all the way back from Nasser's ouster, but things like MemriTV indicate that the general population of the country is not happy with Israel's shenanigans.
3)Russia and Iran's ties are over-estimated.
4)I don't think Israel is fine with anyone but them and America having guns in the middle east
Iran isn't quite the desert that the Arab peninsula is.
I honestly don't think the US will go to war with anyone. They've been effectively checkmated by both the spreading of weapons tech like nukes and hypersonic missiles and their own hubris. All the US militaries equipment is broken after a decade and a half of war.
The 5000 casualty figure is way low. They used tricks like not counting soilders that died of their wounds later outside of the war zone and they don't count contractors at all. The real figure is probably 5x that.
It's still big as fuck.
You can't shoot down hypersonic missiles. And all those ships have vulnerable supply lines. Iran may lose but they wouldn't get flattened.
What is this "hypersonic missile" meme going on in here?
Egypt and Iraq have antisemitic propaganda floating around but the governments are pretty pro-Israel.
It's a Russian missile that goes at some ridiculous speed. Like mach 20 or something. Impossible to stop just like ICBMs. Specifically made to BTFO US naval power. Iran almost certainly has some.
Maybe a few years ago but the US has been outmanoeuvred in the region. Iran, Syria and Hezbollah are gaining and Saudi Arabia is bogged down in its own problems. Short of a full blown land and amphibian invasion with heavy air power, I can't see a US invasion of Iran happening any time soon. Too costly. The US would be better placed trying to dampen Iran-Iraq and Iran-Russia relations to hem them in.
That doesn’t make them invincible. There is a countermeasure for every weapon.
The US has been developing some laser countermeasures for this sort of thing for a while, who knows if they work or not.
There's no counter measure for this. And plenty of weapons don't have countermeasures. Hell even most body armor can be pierced by the right type of ammo.
You're stupid as fuck. This isn't a boxing match. You don't just need to be more powerful than your opponent to win a war of aggression, you need to be like 10 times more powerful and even then its a crap shoot see Vietnam.
And Iran has weapons that netrualize much of the US military superiority.
This is what burgers really believe.
They don't, it's just a corrupt boondoggle to use up the military budget.
en.wikipedia.org
During the 2002 Millennium Challenge military exercise, the Red side, which basically simulated Iran, was able to destroy 1 carrier, 10 cruisers and 5 out of the 6 amphibious ships by overwhelming the Americans with cruise missiles. Had it been a real war and not a simulation, this would have resulted in the death of around 20,000 American soldiers and sailors, and this was only in the 2nd day of the exercise.
thas raycis
Lmao, what a savage. Imagine being in the middle of a million dollar exercise and you decide to ditch halfway through
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Van Riper was a tard who decided his speed boats would all carry 4 silkworm missiles. Despite the fact first, it’s unlikely the Iranians even have that many and second one missile alone was bigger than the boat he put it on.
Not to mention all the other retarded shit he pulled like “motorbike messengers” and “light signals” which was actually just him using the radio.
The only likely part of that scenario was the suicide attacks by Iranian speed boats which would have been heavily mitigated by the picket ships and destroyers taken out with his imaginary missile swarm.
Modern hypersonic missiles are easier than sub-sonic missiles to shoot down because they fly high and have a huge radar signature meaning they are spotted early. They are largely only effective in large numbers.
In reality a subsonic missile that files just above the ocean is a much bigger threat as it is difficult to detect until it is almost on top of its target.
Further, there are plenty of missile systems that can shoot down an ICBM up until re-entry.
Interesting that no-one has mentioned that Iran likely has the bomb.
Iran has no nuclear weapons program but at this point my inner posadist kinda wishes they did
fuck off retard
Iran and the US are both two sides of the same coin
One is run by a bunch of Liberal/Conservative Porkies that violently repress socialist movements
The Other is run by a bunch of islamist porkies that betrayed the socialists that helped them with their "revolution" and violently suppresses socialist movements to this day
Both of them can go fuck themselves ill smile if the day comes when both bring both of themselves to ruin
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This. Fucking sick of "leftists" who do the whole, hurr durr only the west is bad shit
Take the Posadistpill
kill yourself imperialists
Have fun being a useful idiot for a bunch of right-wing cunts, you might even get your own show on RT or PressTV
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They have a nuclear power industry. All the technology for refining fuel rods works just as well for producing fission explosives. That's why there's export controls on items such as gas centrifuges, the dual use nature of the things. I also have trouble believing the US government went to all that trouble with Stuxnet to target an enemy state wanting to generate a bit of electricity. It's not as though you need much plutonium to create the pit for a small weapon. IIRC the example I've seen was about 8kg, slightly larger than a mans fist.
Yes, I am completely retarded for thinking Iran has its own Dimona. Obviously.
There is no evidence that Iran is building nuclear weapons though.
the US government overthrew elected democracies on behalf of banana companies. You underestimate the evil empire.
Any war needs troops to fight it, who will fight Iran ? Israel is more concerned with Hezbollah, the Saudi army is incompetent, and the US military is a giant graft machine incapable of fighting a war that doesn't consist of airstrikes and blockades.
This thread is about how a thread a war between the US and Iran would turn out, not about whether Iran is leftist or not
Isn't there? Iran is known to have procured bomb designs from the Khan network over ten years ago: nytimes.com
Not an unfair thing to point to.
it's mountanous and parts of it ARE desert-like. It's like Afghanistan, but bigger. And look how well that invasion's been going.
common misconception. You need better grade materials and centrifuges for nuclear weapons. The centrifuges that Iran doesn't have. The US meddling was more an attempt to spark a war rather than preventing muh nukes.
It's simple, the US would lose. They have neither the troop numbers nor the qualitative edge in troops to win such a war. Further, any war against Iran would be regional in nature, so the US would also be squaring up against Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria and with the geopolitical changes in the region, Turkey is no longer an ally who can be relied on for supply purposes.
Also, the Chinese and Russians would flood Iran with weapons to bleed the burgers. Right now, war with either Iran or the Norks means the collapse of the American Empire shortly afterwards
youre viewing it the wrong way, these invasions are money making schemes, they couldave wiped out the "terrorists" within the first 2 years of the invasion, this is the industrial-military complex at its peak, war isnt meant to be won, its meant to be continuous. After all, how would weapon companies then sell their stupid shit?
bullcrap, American and Israeli intelligence have been looking for the smoking gun on Iran for years now. There is no reason to believe that Iran even desires a nuke because the leadership knows that if they do anything to provoke America thousands of people will die.
nothing in that article about weapons, only a nuclear energy program (which per international law Iran has a right to pursue).
Besides, this is something that's already well known-Israel assassinating Iranian scientists and sabotaging their nuclear energy program is one of the reasons why they hate Israel in the first place.
You seem to have forgotten about the dual use nature of nuclear technology while conveniently ignoring that states tend not to assassinate staff and sabotage electrical generation programs.
israeltoday.co.il
Israel is hardly a normal country, much like the US they have a pretty expansive record of trying to subvert other middle eastern nations.
>israeltoday.co.il
If it was not for Mordechai Vanunu, you would be making this statement about Israel. The actions of those other states are not consistent with an energy generation program. Iran has had definite access to the technology and know-how to construct the bomb. To argue the probability of Iran possessing it is zero is not credible.
The military-industrial complex likes wars that it can drag on with low intensity. A war with a Iran isn't in their interests.
The idiots and psychos in the Trump administration might just have it in them to start a war with Iran. Don't underestimate the CIA when it wants to start or escalate a conflict.
Because a large part of Israel's population are only nominal Jews and in fact Russians - This is just a conspiratorial guess, but I'm pretty sure there are also extensive organized crime links uniting both governments.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Likely the military planners of the Pentagon have though long and hard about this already. They are a bit slow, but not entirely stupid.
Iran is not defended by a conventional army with a command structure. If the US attacks then any Revolutionary guard officer is free to use any means at his disposal to fight. And Irans entire defensive strategy and planning revolves around fighting off a US led coalition. Attacking Iran would probably kill the American empire through the cost in treasury, strategic assets and manpower.
Iran does not have the bomb as it is not in their interests to have one, besides they have religious decrees in place that deem nuclear weapons as satanic. No Iran has what both Brazil and Japan have. Breakout capacity. This means that at any point they can start producing nuclear weapons if they want to.
There are definitely mafia ties but there's also the fact that Israel probably sees Russia as a fairly neutral party. It's not like Putin is giving guns to Hamas after all.
In a simulated war with Iran the US forces did so badly that they could only get past the first day by using godmode. I doubt the US will be the ones to actually fight, at least in "boots on the ground" terms. It'll be American air support, special forces, and naval blockade, while Saudi Arabia's "Arab Nato" actually goes in and fights. They've all got excess population to burn, and with Iraq and the American Navy between them and Iran, I don't think they're going too miss a chance of taking out their biggest geopolitical and ideological rival.
You're forgetting that Qatar is basically a big American air base and Bahrain is the home of the US fifth fleet.
this is not a smart or nuanced take at all you fucking dunce. if you gave a shit about achieving socialism rather than looking edgy then you'd realize the broader geopolitical implications of taking down the American empire, no matter who does it, is the number one priority
It wasn't in their interest, but that was before Trump tore that treaty up