What do you guys think about the Democratic Cops of America?

What do you guys think about the Democratic Cops of America?

Is anyone a member and what has your experience been?

Is there any alternative organization you prefer and why?

I am thinking of going to my cities monthly meeting and becoming a member but I would like to hear your dude's thoughts.

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Noob-friendly, idpol-ridden, non-communist.

Check out PSL instead.

Never seen a single thing about them which makes me raise an eyebrow. They seem to be yet another "GUYS CO-OPS IN CAPITALISM IS SOCIALISM AND MARX WANTED EVERYONE TO HAVE A FREE CAR!!" waste of time, quite frankly. At least they aren't the "racial reparations and nationalising a bank is ACTUALLY EXISTING SOCIALISM" PSL

I'm not a yank, and I tend to view all yank political endeavors as retarded, so don't take my word for it and investigate it for yourself.

Your local branch probably has a bunch of Berniecrats, SJWs, and anarchists with a few "Marxist Leninists" who have never read Lenin (otherwise they wouldn't be part of Democratic Cops of America). YMMV. The actual LEADERSHIP of Democratic Cops of America is a bunch of cops, active-duty military, spies, imperialists, Zionists, sex creeps, and basically the absolute lowest scum of "left wing" politics. They took a bunch of donations for Charlottesville victims and refuse to pay out. Every month there's a new sex creep scandal among prominent Democratic Cops of America members. They are clueless about international events and theory. You are 100% getting profiled by "undercover" law enforcement when you go to meetings.

In short, the Democratic Cops of America is a trap to divert budding class-conscious proles into a massive dead-end honeypot.

PSL is way better, but it's still opportunist and they have shit security.

I live in a super liberal college town so it's very difficult to find leftists who aren't mainly focused on identity politics. I feel identity politics are a worthwhile pursuit in making our society more equal but distracts from the main point of improving the material conditions of people aka what I think socialism is about. I'm American that's among the Working Poor and I'm just trying to organize with other leftists and improve the lives of our fellow humans by making sure they get the goods and services they need.

I will check out the PSL I'm not sure if there's a chapter in my city, but I will look into it.

The problem in my city is mainly a bunch of upper middle class college kids who are really into this cool hip leftist lifestyle and repeating popular leftist slogans to their friends, but don't do much to improve the material lives of other people. I just don't know the organizations that do the most good but also allows me to work with other leftists.

Damn that sounds like a serious waste of time and energy, I ended up becoming interested in them because I listen to Chapo trap house. What do you think is the best alternatives leftist organization to actually make progress and help others?

Varies based on chapters, but I honestly think it is an org every American should be working with on some level. They won't bring us socialism, but they have and will continue to radicalize young people. People calling the org liberals are very ignorant of what is actually going on and I've seen liberal Bernie supporters go full blown revolutionary just from basic reading groups and talking to more experienced members. It holds far more value than LARPers and members of fringe parties are willing to admit.

If you're in America don't even bother. The only people you'll find are Trots and liberals except if you join a "party" which is really just a leftcom reading group for 6 people.

Yeah I've got to participate in the monthly meeting or check out the reading group. One main critique of reading groups is they tend to focus on more easily digestible books as compared to books that are more impenetrable or long like Marx's capital.

I tend to be a person who's more in favor of successful reform that is often a compromise of values than some far off revolution that most likely won't be happening any time soon.

I'm less concerned if people are ideologically pure and more concerned on how they're improving other people's material conditions.

I really appreciate the info user.

*I've yet to. Sorry using speech to text on my phone at work.

What do you think is a better alternative?! For me I'm just really exploring my options. I think talking about and learning theory is important but working towards achieving the goals of socialism is a lot more important.

In america the socialist movement is basically dead. For now there isn't really anything you can do.

Yeah, so maybe they should join Democratic Cops of America and actually radicalize some people?

I'm personally skeptical of any organization I join leading to a socialist state in my lifetime, but working together with people to improve the material conditions of others has value imo. Also a tepid reformist group gaining political power is more useful than a radical ML group arguing about Lenin's writings late into the night that lacks any political power but this is just my opinion.

"Larry Website" was in my chapter. He’s dumb as shit and a clear entryist.

I left Democratic Cops of America because it’s full of Berniecrats, trad Catholics, and ZOG Occupied Government idiots. Kinda like the new Green Party.

Seriously read Marx, Lenin, and Stalin, they all wrote extensively about "identity politics" (usually referring to it as the "national question" or something similar).

Stop, it's a bullshit liberal podcast.

Stop jumping into honeypots. NO, IT IS NOT OKAY THAT THE COPS CAN SIT IN ON ALL YOUR MEETINGS. How the fuck do you think you can have a revolutionary movement if the cops know exactly who to arrest and kill the moment things start to heat up? Why do you think the masses would trust people who can't avoid the law?
It's a dead end! The real revolutionary party will consist of professional revolutionaries who engage in secrecy and don't engage in opportunism, adventurism, or terrorism. No such party presently exists in the USA. Start by reading Marx and Lenin, you can't have a revolutionary party without the revolutionary theory.

The only correct form of engagement with Democratic Cops of America is to attempt to siphon members away and get them to fucking read some actual Marxist theory and history.

Any stories about him? I hate that guy.

The Democratic Cops of America is the only org I see in the US actually radicalizing people at the moment. If I thought there was an organization with a chance that wasn't full of idpol garbage I'd lean towards them, but I don't really see anything.


I'm in Democratic Cops of America and I'm pretty unhappy with it. I joined the refoundation caucus but it's still full of idpolers who don't know much if any theory. Anyways the party machinery if fucked so it doesn't matter anyways, a comrade from my chapter tweeted about dumping social democracy for marxism and got a long ass email from Democratic Cops of America saying that's a no-no. There's not many other options in my state though so I'm probably just gonna rescind my membership and give up on party politics cus it's pointless

That's the "big tent" for you.

I can't believe you got suckered into giving them money. At least you're waking up to it.

Give up on opportunism. Don't give up on real Marxism.


literally shouldn't you be on twitter? that's where your kind belongs. i recommend you follow @earwulf, @eugen_levine and @soviettes.
i come here to get away from you people.

The edginess and hatred of Democratic Cops of America on this board just show how autistic most of you really are. Do you seriously expect the masses to immediately draw revolutionary conclusions? Is everyone supposed to skip straight from liberalism to Leninism? No. They are going to keep trying new things until they arrive at revolutionary politics. And we are not at a stage in history where that is going to happen that soon.

For now, the Democratic Cops of America is incredibly important for several reasons. It gives Bernouts, progressives, and other could-be revolutionaries a reference point. Just a few years ago, when the Democratic Cops of America was just another org, people who were interested in socialism but knew nothing about it had nowhere to go with that interest. Now, there is a relatively large and growing organization that calls themselves socialists and can catch and collect all these people who are sliding left. They aren't the most politically advanced, but Marxists can work with the organization and sort out the 1s and 2s for a real vanguard party. Also, the wider membership of the Democratic Cops of America could be a nucleus of what might turn into a mass US Labor party.

Reducing them to "cops, zionists, idpolers, and liberals" whom we should have nothing to do with is autistic and left-communist.

Filled with feminists, Esperantists, BLM-types, and generally just a bunch of liberals who like the colour red.
They will betray the left eventually and end up endorsing Kamala Harris or Corey Booker.

For a board that is so anti-idpol, it is incredibly surprising to see the PSL recommended so often. Have you ever actually been to one of their meetings?

It's just a meme. Most shitposters here are just armchair revolutionaries with really bad praxis. There are better organizations out there, but they are usually local and have no national structure.
A good local one would be The Internationalists found in New York City. An interesting national one would be the Progressive Labor Party.

Are you in NYC?
Is this them? internationalist.org/

They are a small Trot organization with typical Trot flaws, but I am not extremely sectarian.
This is probably one of their best analysis on the whole Democratic Cops of America question:

really now?

The Internationalists and Spartacus League are two separate organization.

oh oops

So it's going to come down to 5 guys meeting up in their mom's basement talking about revolution?

Excuse me while I go fap to Anime.

at the Democratic Cops of America national convention in chicago 3 members of the internationalists stood outside selling newspapers and haranguing members. It was actually pretty cool, esp to talk with someone about lenin and trotsky who had significant insight.


They're doing the opposite of that though.

He used to regularly interrupt meetings to shill Jacobin and Chapo. He also was saying some dumb crap about the Catholic Church’s revoultionary potential because muh liberation theology, parlaying this into motions to ally with the fucking Catholic Church because they donate to the poor.

We live in a fucking panopticon at this point, if the police wanted to get us merked they're going to do it one way or another.

don't expect the new recruits to shake years of idpol conditioning or all immediately devour Capital

Normalizing the word "socialism" within American political discourse
Catching left voters discouraged by DNC/hillary nonsense
Fighting local races and winning races centrist dems refuse to fight

They in stage 1 of a fight that probably won't end until sometime in the 2030s. They know that. I don't see any of the MLs or Maoists in my country or in the US doing anything except relitigating old cold war disputes or trying to sell their newspapers.

I joined before I had read any real theory other than Rosa

lol, it's mostly students who wont care about this stuff once they start getting focused on making money like the good little careerists they are. Unions are just about over in the U.S with the average age being over 45, meaning syndicalism will literally be dead or retired by the end of the nest decade.

Also, everyone who's a member of D.S.A. consistently says they're focused on idpol not class. You're projecting things onto the org that they aren't.

I had enough foresight to give up on party politics when I was a teen. I'm 30 now, and I'm glad I didn't waste my time on a dead end for the past 15 years.

well, I hope you realize by now that Democratic Cops of America is exactly the kind of organization that would literally kill Rosa.

I do, and I want to torment you. They're right and you're wrong. READ MARX, READ LENIN.

No, and their class awakening will get delayed further and further the more you promote opportunism.

The masses aren't, but the party is. Not that Democratic Cops of America is even a fucking party.

Oh great, another Labor Party. So we can steal from, kill, and rape underdeveloped countries while gaining temporary health benefits.

No, it's a fact about the people who are actually in charge of Democratic Cops of America. AGAIN, Marxists (which you aren't) must reach out to the people who are being tricked by the Democratic Cops of America, and attempt to educate them, but they must absolutely not support that utter dogshit honeypot organization.

Take off that flag.

That's a Democratic Cops of America meeting.

How do you know until you've read him?

Weird how unions fucking died when the socdems kicked all the communists out.

That's defeatism, and it's also idealist and self-contradictory. It's idealist because there is no such thing as a pure, infiltration-proof movement. However, the point of OPSEC is mitigation. If you have a party with extremely strict discipline, then cops will have to literally work for you before they can take anyone out, and you will eventually be able to get rid of them.
-t. Lenin
It's self-contradictory because if we live in a "Panopticon" (which is actually a metaphor for the illusion of all-pervading surveillance "Instead of actual surveillance, the mere threat of surveillance is what disciplines society into behaving according to rules and norms."), then you won't be allowed to do anything that threatens capitalism, and therefore if you are being allowed to do something, you aren't threatening capitalism. If revolutionary secrecy is impossible, then the Democratic Cops of America is certainly hopeless, and the only hope could be a sudden, simultaneous mass upsurge in support for communism… You'd think that if surveillance was so powerful, then modern propaganda would also be powerful enough to prevent such a thing from happening! YOU are the armchair socialist, in denial.


Unions died because imperialism creates a labor aristocracy on the one hand, and creates "decaying capitalism" (think Detroit) on the other.

stop posting here or i'll tell them that you post here and they'll call you a crytpofash CIA asset and block you

Typical Democratic Cops of America idiot instantly reverts to impotent threats of snitching and telling mommy.

They were fucking toothless and had their priorities out of wack. The last decade of true labor power was the 1970's.

AFL-CIO spent the 1970's at rallies for Nixon and beating up Vietnam protestors.

The Teamsters spent the 1970's hiding mobsters and working with Lyndon Larouche.

The UAW spent the 1970's ratting out communists to the FBI instead of unionizing the foreign car manufacturing plants.

All of which were products of the labor aristocracy and jingoism, of course.

It's funny and kind of cute, the Democratic Cops of America LARPer fantasy of unions and a non-reactionary white working class.

It's still the task of communists to enter any union they can where the masses are and promote Marxism, but sadly, the level of involvement in many unions is so low that even that can't happen.

Communists need to reinforce success not failure:

By the way, last year's union membership rate was 10.7 percent and dropping.


It's not a question of "success" of the unions. The question is, are there working masses in a union, and if there are, then communists must go among them and agitate and educate.

I'm for OPSEC but not to the point where it paralyzes a group's ability to campaign effectively.

Campaign effectively, FOR WHAT? If you campaigning for social imperialism like the Democratic Cops of America is, then sure, you can organize out in the open. If you are going to organize and agitate for communism, then the "threat of paralysis" is that you and all your comrades will get arrested or killed!
The road will be long and hard! Seeking instant gratification is idiotic.

typical twitter brezhnevite making it about orgs and ideologies and snitchjacketing instead understanding the deep personal antipathy almost every normal person holds towards them

Agitate for communism in a country where the overton window stops at milquetoast social democracy and you won't get many people listening to you.

don't bother, these guys think communism is strictly limited to a particular sect of revisionist ML (not even MLM, just ML) scheming in basements/twitter using ultra-puritanical shibboleths for security. the idea is that they'll emerge to lead the movement, but constantly shit on people who are in the movement and doing their best to build it.

dsa wants people to believe that socialism means "anti-racism, immigrant rights, disability rights, labor rights, universal healthcare, a national $15 minimum wage, reproductive rights…"

idpol + government programs = socialism


I don't really care, I just want a hill to take. I didn't abandon almost a decade of libertarian autism to get angry in my basement over sectarian nonsense if I wanted to do that I'd stay a libertarian lol

Middle aged men don't want to be organized by college aged kids. And you didn't understand what I wrote. Reinforcing success means you pile resources into the most critical and decisive things that actually work, rather than doing the opposite which is squandering them on something that wont even exist next decade due to retirement and automation.

nobody thinks those things are socialism. however, those things are popular among the working class and are issues the can be put in a socialist context for propaganda purposes

Didn't feel like downloading it to post.

You might as well stay basemented since being a "non-sectarian :) " isn't actually doing anything other than deluding yourself into thinking you're making change.

As it stands a lot of Americans think socialism means "government thugs are going to break down your door, seize all your property to give to welfare queens and make you bake gay marriage cakes at gunpoint" so what you've described is an improvement. How else are you going to kick the overton window left enough that people will even be willing to listen to an accurate description of socialism?

Okay, what have you done to bring about change?

oh man now you've done it! when you ask these people the very reasonable question "Do you do anything other than bitch?", they immediately snitchjacket you and say something like "oh you wanna know? how about i just give you names and addresses too?"


So, "socialism" is "normalized" in plenty of imperialist European countries.

To what end? Sheepdogging.

Getting imperialist mercenaries elected because they talk about healthcare.

So, don't agitate for the right thing, because if you agitate for the wrong thing, more people will listen!

what im saying, jackass, is that if the majority of socialists hate you, you're going to do even worse with the working class

The majority of "socialists" in the USA are pathetic fakes, and they are a negligible minority in the USA even so. The majority of socialists worldwide are "tankies."

What have YOU done? If you have helped opportunist, imperialist organizations, then you have actually HARMED the movement towards revolution.

About as much as you have.

"Socialism is when the government does stuff" is what these guys believe in at the end of the day.

Even the majority of "tankie" socialists hate you people (majority is MLM or Hoxhaist). Your cult represents a tiny slice of even Marxist-Leninist offshoots. Your unflagging uncritical support for "regimes forced to revisionism by imperialism" is just fucking repackaged Trotskyism.

Who are you even fucking talking about, you delusional socdem.

conspiracy-cult brezhnevites

Look, I just honestly think a lot of this is silly. Fighting for individual, tangible policy planks of socialism is an easy way to build strength and get more people on board. I don't understand why we need to have a complete revolutionary blueprint hammered out before we can agitate for better health care or an end to free trade

Again, more people are going to listen to you when you talk about individual things then when you try and shove the Critique of the Gotha Programme in their faces and demand that they read before they can talk

I used to be a literal neoreactionary, please don't make me list my crimes against the people in detail

Kill yourself you disingenuous, smearing shitstain.

You're still reactionary.

seriously man if your twitter friends knew you were posting here they wouldn't let you hang out with them anymore


STFU bitch

im begging you dude dont go down this road

You're a rose.

Are you implying you've done anything yourself?

Not really. A lot of my peers still think I'm that weird libertarian from university and I'm debating on whether or not I'd be more useful to socialism as a mole inside reactionary institutions

And how does this make me a reactionary?

Witness a socdem sparring with neoreactionary tactics, comrade

Because you are holding back the revolution.


Ahh, so the careerist wants to go make some money like everyone else but justifies it to himself as "being a mole".

conspiracy kids confirmed for maga liberals?

I don't think the American ML left is in the right state to sweep in when things finally start falling apart. Or any other faction of the left really. Armed backwater Jesus militias are in a better position to assume actual power then we are


Except he's the one LARPing as a "mole". Actual working people either don't give a fuck or just conform.

bizarre rationalization

What's stopping us from forming our own militias?

they're all honeypots.

And the right wing ones aren't?

Yes, this is absolutely true. Part of the reason this is the case is because imperialism leads to the rise of opportunistic, labor-aristocratic socdems who divert class consciousness.

The D.S.A. is a honeypot. Doesn't stop people from joining.

maybe you should accept that those movements will always exist and you should work on directing them towards your goals

How is it LARPing? You worm your way into one of their institutions and either

The right wing ones are heavily monitored, but they take a sane approach toward COINTELPRO tactics:
Rule 1. Don't advocate anything illegal
Rule 2. Don't listen to anyone who does

I think people are pretty conscious of the fact that they might die or live a shitty life because they can't afford health insurance.

sounds familiar lol

It stops revolution though, as all honeypots are intended to do.

Communists "direct them" through merciless criticism that exposes them for the frauds that they are.

This is one of the many good starting points for agitation, but it is not an appropriate basis for a party, and a party that has an only agitation-level consciousness is bound to be a sidetrack.

you're not directing anyone, your two modes of communication are 1) circle jerking with other brezhnevites and 2) getting laughed at by literally everyone

More social club antics. STFU bitch.

Which is why these debates are nonsense.

Socdems are probably the most likely candidates for conversion to Communism. How do you intend on doing this by berating them and exposing them as "frauds" and "imperialists"?


Historically, communists focus their criticism and exposure of fraud on the leadership and intelligentsia of the opportunist parties. There's absolutely nothing contradictory about warning members/prospective members against the deliberate sidetracking honeypot antics of socdem organizations. If you notice, not once have I said "everyone who goes to Democratic Cops of America meetings is an irredeemable idiot" or anything of the like, and I don't think that for once second. However, I absolutely condemn and hate the parasitic, deceptive leaders of the Democratic Cops of America.

Your entire argument thus far is that anti-Marxist-Leninists are cool and popular, while Marxist-Leninists are… uncool.

Most people don't have an in-depth conception of politics. If socialism means better health care, secure jobs and an end to pointless foreign wars then they'll like socialism. If socialism is branded as thugs stealing your savings to give to layabouts then people will hate socialism.

The goal of socialism isn't the revolution, the goal of socialism is the eventual elimination of capitalism and the ownership of all property by the people. Who cares how we go about it as long as we win?

you literally do have to be popular in order to have a popular revolution

You don't need an in-depth conception to be right. That said, yes, many people will lag behind the vanguard. That doesn't mean we should give up on the vanguard and treat laggards and reactionaries as if they are a revolutionary force.

Weird how you bring up such a characterization. Almost as if you harbor reactionary tendencies.

Holy fuck, just read Marx and read Lenin. Communists want revolution because it is the ONLY WAY to win.

Yes, but before the popular revolution happens, the revolutionary party is not popular enough. Therefore, all revolutionary parties are unpopular at some point. How can you not understand this? Are you a fucking child?>Most people don't have an in-depth conception of politics.

Probably because it's incredibly naive thinking that flies in the face of literally all practical experience. Cops can successfully infiltrate and destroy movements because they get paid to do so, and are not dependent on the host organization for their survival. A leftist joining a reactionary institution is dependent on its continued survival to sustain his career, and ultimately nothing changes except themselves.

Honestly, give me one (1) example of a leftist activist infiltrating and destroying reactionary orgs.

Bolsheviks were always a minority.

the bolsheviks had tens of thousands of members dude and also they co-operated with other socialists they didn't agree with

Much of the time they had fewer than 10,000, even less than 5,000. That's a membership count that pales in comparison to other organizations and parties at the time. They only exploded towards the end.

yeah and when they were small…… they co-operated with reformists and anarchists! wtf!

They also constantly criticized and denounced them! In order to cooperate on anything, openness and honesty in all areas including criticism is necessary!

i am completely open criticism. however, bad faith shitflinging, snitchjacketing and copjacketing are totally useless and probably harmful.

DSA is literally run by cops and spies.

Which is counterproductive when socdems and communists have the opportunity to work together - however temporary or grudgingly - towards an immediate and pressing goal.

In Greece the left had the opportunity to reject austerity and tell the EU to go fuck itself. SYRIZA was willing to do that but it needed one other left party to make up the six or so seats it needed for a majority. This would have been a clear win, it would have started Greece on the path toward untangling itself from the EU and the corporations that control it, and it would have made Greeks feel like they were in control of their own country again.

The only other left anti-austerity party in parliament was the KKE and they said no to a coalition because of ML doctrinaire bullshit. So SYRIZA paired with conservative ANEL and now the neoliberal New Democracy is going to regain power in the next election.

This type of shit should not ever happen but it does because, fuck, I don't know. I really don't know.

I've already said in this thread that I was a neoreactionary. I've been spouting that nonsense for almost a decade. Just because I'm familiar with reactionary talking points doesn't mean that I still am one.
And how does one get popular in a society where all political communication is mediated by technologies that reward and incentivize brevity and simplification?

Yes, because left organizations aren't flush with cash. I know guys who basically live off of conservative activist welfare. If you show the aptitude and the willingness to lie and do the right things right-wingers big and small will throw money at you.
Again, the goal of infiltrating reactionary orgs isn't to bring them down. If I expose and take down Project Veritas or Activate, their donor buddies in Dow Chemical and Exxon Mobil are just going to find some other conservative cut-out and set her up in a new non-profit that will do the same thing.
The goal instead is to actively subvert their ability to organize and counter left campaign efforts. For instance, imagine if we were all right-wingers and one of us was spending his evening egging on all of us to fight each other over, I don't know, welfare policy and whether whites should be supported through continued welfare payments. That would be a successful effort, since us reactionaries would be spending time fighting each other we COULD have spent agitating for right-wing causes.

why do people only listen to what I say when I post Kiniro Mosaic cuties?

your justification for them being cops and spies is "they disagree with me", so all your talk about honest criticism is extremely hollow

I thought the (one) cop union organizer was eventually forced off the central committee?

he was. when brezhnevites say "cop" they mean someone who disagrees with them on Syria or Zimbabwe

The Democratic Cops of America is shi-

Shit wrong image. Still shows that they are a lot more radical than the butthurt trots and anarkiddies ITT claim.

No, the only way to work together on anything is by being totally honest and up-front about criticism. Otherwise it will be a false cooperation bound to fail.

No. The KKE correctly predicted that SYRIZA leadership was going to cave and stab the workers in the back, so they made the decision to avoid sullying their name and setting back Greek communism.

You bring them up as if we should cower from them and attempt to weasel our way into good relations with reactionaries. The only way to take on reactionary propaganda is to REFUTE IT.

It's a good question! First of all, brief and simple political material has always had a place as agitation. Second of all, it is absolutely a major challenge faced by communists in core imperialist countries that the entire structure of society is deeply antisocial. This is a challenge to be faced head-on, not worked around via opportunism.

For every open cop, a dozen "undercover" ones. Not to mention the active duty military and unapologetic veterans OPENLY members of Democratic Cops of America.

Notice how this lone idiot left of his own volition. For every Zionist who leaves, a dozen of his comrades stay.

Oh, wait. Does this mean that when I disagree with them on Syria that makes me an imperialist? Is this what the whole US bases in Syria thing stems from?

every party (and Democratic Cops of America isn't a fucking party, we aren't even getting in your way) recruits active duty including the fucking bolsheviks

yep if you disagree you'd might as well just give up with them, they'll never accept a compromise and it'll be you, an imperialist kkkop fascist vs. them, the next Lenin.

This. I'm more concerned about the cops btw.

If you support the overthrow of the Syrian government, you're an imperialist.

They recruited deserters you lying piece of shit.

There's criticism and then there is factionalism. Most normal people expect and accept that politics involves some manner of compromise and give-and-take, at least in the short term. There's always going to be differences among people on the left and we win more often than not when we handle these differences through such compromise so we can get back to defending ourselves against porky's class war.
They had the necessary leverage to extract a better outcome than what happened. Golden Dawn is still ascendent, SYRIZA is tarnished and paralyzed, people still suffer under austerity and neolibs are going to regain power. And the Greek left itself looks incompetent to most workers.
I'm just grappling with the reality of the limits on political discussion within a society. Before we can start laying out blueprints for the nationalization of most industries and natural resources we need to haul the overton window - the range of socially acceptable discussion - to the point where people will take such discussion seriously. As it stands almost half a century of cold war propaganda prevents that. We need to start chipping away that propaganda by normalizing the discussion of the very basics of socialism so we can start using the required language to agitate.
Okay, but do you have a specific tactic in mind?

Look, I appreciate your own contributions but at the end of the day we all agree with each other more on the basics of how the world should be a *lot* more than we would agree with conservatives, ethnonationalists or ancraps. There's no point in calling people who should be your ally a faggot and a stooge, save that for the aut-right.

The bolsheviks had a lot of support during the provision government from active-duty units.

I don't support that, but why does that prevent me from thinking that barrel bombs are probably war crimes?

lmao you're fucking retarded.


there was active agitation on the fucking front line you dipshit.

Wait why is having veterans in your organization bad again?

Probably because they're psychopaths who want to kill or help kill innocents so they can get some bennies.

oh yeah, totally equivalent to posing with a che shirt at west point, kys

if they refuse to completely renounce their actions. if they whine nonstop about muh PTSD from killing and torturing 3rd world proles.

You take that back you shit

It isn't, just judge people as individuals

If you have a job in the developed world then you contribute to imperialism. Get your head out of your ass. Cops are the real problem. Former and currently enlisted men are a valuable resource.

Honest Marxist-Leninists

LITERALLY anti-Marxist

Not as much as hired guns who shoot little girls in the neck.

Literally no difference between colonial occupiers and cops.

What's with all the PSL shills?

What makes them so great? What accomplishments do they have to their name? What power do they hold in the political sphere?

Holla Forumsack here, it is these threads that make me appreciate Holla Forums.

"…what is wrong with organizing police officers? As socialists, we recognize that the police defend the prerogatives of capital. In doing so, they frequently brutalize poor and working class communities (particularly communities of color). In the fight against systemic and institutionalized racism and the incarceral state, police unions may sometimes help and often hinder the struggle but are not themselves the enemy. Police officers, like other workers, deserve the right to unionize to improve their wages and working conditions."


Even Fredric Jameson says one of the most important things socialists can do is normalize socialist ideas among the culture at large. Democratic Cops of America is a reformist org and is frustrating on that level; no important left thinker has pushed reform over revolution. But Democratic Cops of America does help to spread left viewpoints and the branding apparently appeals to millennials. (I am a member.) It's probably the only place in the US where your knowledge of Lenin will bring you minutely closer to actually having sex.

explain why we should give a fuck?

What about them specifically? Just curious.

Guess it just warms his heart to see the Freikorps gaining popularity on the left again.


Yes, it's bad to have active duty babykillers openly associating with your party. You fucking imbecile.

Fuck them, they can get gang-raped by a bunch of fiery faggots in hell.

That's what I think.

You do at the very least recognize that Lenin recruited massive amounts of WWI vets to his ranks, correct? And you do realize that these additional recruits were instrumental to his revolution. correct?
Political purity aside, your argument is baseless. People do fucked up things under capitalism, but the most important thing is they wake up to this and try to rectify it. Sometimes it takes fucked up circumstances to do so, nevertheless it is important.
So long story short you are not a comrade and GTFO this board.

You do at the very least recognize that Lenin recruited massive amounts of WWI vets to his ranks, correct? And you do realize that these additional recruits were instrumental to his revolution. correct?
Political purity aside, your argument is baseless. People do fucked up things under capitalism, but the most important thing is they wake up to this and try to rectify it. Sometimes it takes fucked up circumstances to do so, nevertheless it is important.
So long story short you are not a comrade and GTFO this board.

Mods! What is happening! Deal with this!

1. the WWI vets were not "world police" involved in an occupation, they were waging war between imperialist states
2. the Bolshevik soldiers were deserters and mutineers. in order to qualify as a socialist vet, you must be a deserter or mutineer or COMPLETELY disavow your past military service.