I'm starting to hate people who say this as much as I hate the SJWs themselves.
Sure, it's seems like a reasonable opinion, but I've noticed through experience that the people who say things like that, and who by extension enable and empower the SJWs within left-wing movements and spaces, never really stand up to them when they causing drama and inner fighting. In fact, although I've learned to expect criticism from those people for not being woke or accomodating enough, I have never once seen them tell SJWs to tone it down. And I say this as someone who had this very approach to the question of socialism and identity not too long ago.
More and more I'm starting to think these things are completely incompatible when it comes to real-life organizing. Identity issues can be important, but they're best left to bourgeois institutions who have more power and influence. Proletarian institutions and movements should focus on organizing the working class on issues that are commonly shared to the majority of the working class, period. Leave everything else at the door and let's not waste a iota of energy with it.(I hate identityt politics, so let's talk identity politics, it will get rid of identity politics if we just talk about identity politics.)
Good stuff man. It's those you should keep your eyes on.
Why are there so many threads on SJWs/IdPol today
Reddit's out in full force, maybe its the reddit version of a raid?
Holla Forums is dying and struggling to remain relevant
I swear there are about 10 new fag posters for every other poster.
Doesn't really make sense. Why would we push idpol to ourselves to stay relevant?
This. Nothing on 8ch is relevant. Especially not leftypol
I've been wondering the same thing
Not trying to bait here, but honestly what is wrong with that? Yes, ultimately it's about class l, but to pretend different parts of the same class don't experience problems unique to them is silly. For example a man and woman can be working class but have different problems and needs, how the fuck is acknowledging that idpol?
Have you checked post histories? There's gotta be some fuck shit going on.
This guy made 3 posts. I know people can just say "well they were using a vpn", but usually when its someone with a vpn their posts are consistent (with some minor differences, everyone likes to shitpost etc).
But there have been a number of people who just want to talk about how bad idpol is (inviting it into the board by doing so), that have a limited number of posts. I think this is less a raid of reddit and more a raid of bored Holla Forumsyps.
I made the other one about leftypol being the last non-idpol left space. I am not OP but I believe they saw this quote on my thread and decided to start their own. And mine was in turn inspired by the other thread where the guy was getting accused of being a rapist and white supremacist and getting threats. So, snowball effect.
Guy from no-name weapons board on another website here.
We're talking about IDpol because we're all the children of bureaucrats who taught us to approach this sort of problem with decorum and calculated restraint. Your average SJW type is a dumbassed art major who argues by FEELING LOUDLY AT OTHERS and we fucking hate that, especially since this sense of order is more fundamental to who we are than what we were told about our culture. Their ideas about "intersectionality" require more rules, precedents and doctrines than they are capable of debating or generating in a reasonable manner.
Sam Hyde is another example an art student who makes emotional political arguments that don't really fit into a coherent world view.
Also, if you're wondering why Holla Forums is bleeding quality posters, it's because a sufficiently motivated person can find a much better forum for discussing their ideas than an anonymous imageboard.
A motivated Holla Forumsack or lefty is going to move more towards real-life advocacy instead of this idiotic anime fan site we're all attached to.
What rule did he break?
It's not difficult, just say that people are statistically treated differently under Capitalism based upon certain identities but that's just one of the many shitty things about, and the only way to do anything to is abolish class society. You can accept institutional racism exists without that having any baring on the class struggle, and indeed it shouldn't; anyone who says or does otherwise is an opportunist at best and a class collaborator at worst.
No war except class war.
Purge sjw and idpol from your leftist organization.
If enough dtand up against it and let them know we won't be helping their liberal orojects they'll trigger-out and form their own groups or at least fuck off
Do both, comrade. Leave the house and talk to proles, its good for you. I smoke weed with the homeless. Just bring separate pieces.
As for Idpol, its fine as long as it isn't excessive. You do gotta step up when it gets excessive. Don't shut down the sjw, just point them in a more class based direction. Try to acknowledge their concerns and show them a left approach. I used to just let it slide and things started to degenerate in the group after one of the poc members went third worldest with that whole no white working class thing.
mommy didn't deliver on the tendies today
goddam, sums up this shit nicely
That's why I think it ought to be a non-issue. The whole topic is pure poison to any group, no matte the stance you take, you breed and invite toxic people. I think socialist groups ought to loudly and clearly not take a stance on idpol. It should be the third-way in terms of idpol. We're not SJWs, we don't hate SJWs. We think the whole game is stupid and that all people ought to fight for the rights of all people, blind to whatever group they're in.
The American working class is majority female, majority brown, yet any mention of this really seems to set some of you off. Class reductionism is the ultimate identity politics because it enshrines a mythical 1930s "worker" archetype over reality.
Dumbest take in this thread. The working class is also 100% working class, appealing to people on a class basis will always be superior to whatever identarian schlock your ilk shits out.
One doesn't preclude the other. But it is telling when your image of the working class bears no resemblance to its actual make up. The only women you respect are Kurds with guns, and the only blacks you take seriously are dead Black Panthers (who you would call nigger (ironically!) if they were still alive today)
Tell me more about myself, I am leaning a lot.
If you feel offended by any mention of sex/race within the broader context of socialism then that is literally you.
What I'd respond is that the issue with identity politics is not an issue of quantity but of quality. The point isn't to have the "right" amount of identity politics, but to conduct proper materialist analysis. There is nothing wrong with exploring the way in which different social groups exist in and experience capitalism — say, women's relation with reproductive labor — as long as the approach is class-based.
It's just that many former Holla Forumstards around here go in full autistic-screeching mode anytime someone mentions women or minorities.
I'm really struggling to find where he described the working class as a bunch of white guys, or downtalked and disrespected either women or black people. I am a brainlet so maybe I just don't see it. Could you point out the relevant section to me?
Not offended in the least. Jut pointing out you are objectively wrong.
Refusing to recognize racial and sexual dynamics in class struggle is effectively apologizing for the status quo.
You can take umbrage with the completely cynical way in which identity is manipulated by liberals seeking to preserve the prevailing order, but when you say something like "no struggle but class struggle" you're not much better than they are. Class antagonisms are compounded by other spooks, and taking the time to address those factors specifically doesn't stymie a broader socialist praxis.
This is all mainly an inevitable symptom of a community founded out of the ashes of something as inane as Gamergate; still lots of butthurt nerds who get triggered by the f-word here, all these years later.
Can you please go back to Reddit
I'll have some fun educating your brainlet ass. Here's a list of reformist policy prescriptions typically advanced by evil bernie-bro class reductionists: universal socialized health care, higher minimum wage, no cuts to social security, higher taxes on high incomes, taxes on capital gains, government intervention ik key sectors of the economy (green energy, housing, etc.), cuts to defense spending, and less interventionism abroad.
Kindly point out how any of these have any bearing on whether the working class is mostly white, brown, women, or whatever. I'll give you a hint:you can't. The beauty of universalist demands is that you don't have to "recognize racial and sexual dynamics" because they are good for everyone no matter what.
Or do you think so little of black people, women, etc. that you think they need their ego's stroked by appeals to their identity before they can get on board with anything?
Been here since day one.
How about you explain how addressing mass incarceration, voter disenfranchisement, sexual predation, reproductive health, etc is somehow magically anti health-care, pro-war, anti-environment just because it has the gall to stop slobbering your knob for five minutes and address issues that specifically vulnerable demographics have to contend with? This is male fragility in a nut shell: if something doesn't apply to you, it must somehow be anti-you. Grow the fuck up already.
THIS. Socialists should distinguish themselves from the racist alt-right and the equally racist left with universalist demands. Be egalitarian by the virtue of not discriminating The white-left regularly does this. They've got it in their heads that minorities are all fragile flowers who face endless tiggers every day and need to be coddled and pandered to, least they accidentally have the wrong political opinion. It's almost more racist than the alt-right, at least their stance is "git out mah cuntry" and not "you're so stupid that you need us, benevolent shepherds, to guide you to the right political opinions"
mods got salty that there's too much idpol talk.
Great logic. Let's ban threads about Capitalism and Fascism as well, since we hate it.
Get over your persecution complex. No one here opposes prison reform, police reform, reproductive choices, and getting rid of gerrymandering. What we do oppose is exclusively talking about these or making them a litmus test, like you seem to want to do. Get over yourself. Or better yet, go fucking outside and talk to a few black people and women. Not the millennial tumblords you hang with online, but actual working black men and women. See how much shits they give about progressive stacks, muh privelige, and intersectionality.
Idpol movements you're an apologist for do none of those things.
That pic is retarded. If one of this redditor goes in the goverment they would force me to be a fucking fag
modding an image board is the easiest fucking thing in the world. all you have to do is delete illegal content or spam. yet mods continually make themselves look more autistic than a man who logs every hamburger he's eaten
If you dontbwant to fix those things by overthrowing capitalism at the first chance then you are the idpol problem. The idpols fatal mistake is to advance people within capitalism with things like affirmative action or afterschool programs aka civil society which gramsci $already taught us maintains capitalism. 99% of idpol wants to maintain capitalism and are a conservative group in the last instance.