They were one of the parties who abandoned Marxism -Leninism in the 60s and decided to go Eurocommunist (although the party still mantained a Marxist.Leninist majority in their militant ranks). This shows how Eurocommunism has not achieved anything in Europe being just as Lenin would have called it "an infantile disorder". And although the party has still to improve a lot (they have been a reformist power for the last 40 years, they are lots of anti-Leninist still in important positions, they have been rejecting class struggle for a long time….) this could be the start, of the PCE becoming a ML revolutionary party again fighting for socialism in Spain. This process is what has been happening (to some degree) to the greek KKE, who went Marxist -Leninist again some years ago ,and are becoming a mass movement in Greece. Also the good thing is that this only has been possible, because the youngest ranks of the party ( the UJCE wich is fastly growing and has at this moment the biggest number of members in their ranks since the Spanish Civil war times, and who are starting to have an strong presence in the streets) , has fought to break the old party stablishment, and push back again the Marxist-Leninist line that thay have always maintained twitter.com/UJCE/status/936969294537199616.
Could this be the comeback of the PCE as a revolutionary party?? Could it become the vanguard of the working class or they are still going to be some reformist party , who supports capitalist parties such as Podemos in burgeoise elections? What do you think about it Holla Forums??
After the fall of the USSR and the obvious failure of the Eurocommunist movement, there is no reason for these parties not to go back to Marxism-Leninism. The same thing happened with the DKP in Germany last year, they purged a South Bavarian chapter that was revisionist and defeatist as fuck and went back to an orthodox Marxist-Leninist and anti-imperialist line.
It's obviously a good thing, as tensions rise in Europe we need as many anti-opportunists we can get. When things get really bad, communist parties gain tractions, as we can see in Greece.
If Stalinism is making a comeback (this and Belgium) will we also see the return of a leftcom movement?
Probably not, a ML comeback might hapend tho thats a big asumption to Begin with.
Neat. There have been some splitters from the KPRF in Russia, too. The Communists of Russia and Russian United Labour Front, booth self proclaimed anti-revisionist ML.
Could you explain what belgium has to do with this? Last time i saw the belgium workers party went revisionist after ludo Martens died.
Well the PVDA is a Marxist-Leninist party undoubtely, they follow a Marxist-Leninist line and are one of the best european communist parties out there. Is true that after Ludo Martens death they had a period were soem revisionists appeared in the party but this has been changed. Currently they poll best in wallonia showing how Marxism.lenonism is the way to create class counciusness and guide the working class to socialism in Belgium
This is actually pretty graet ,now let's see if they achieve to reconstruct the party in a ML line, specially considering this was achieved thank to the youth UJCE this could be the start of something big (hope)
Nice, they can start defending private property against those dirty anarkiddies again, amrite??
Buthurt sectarianism still 80 years later….
You really think an obscure image board is going to stop over a century old conflicts?
Sources abou the DKP thing?? Are they actually relevant? Are they the biggest communist party in Germany?
Yeah in some other theread I¡ve heard abou the MLPD being rich (do you now why?) and also why do they not merge if both call themselves ML and revolutionary?
Are they? The only time I ever hear of them is when ancoms bitch about them and how irrelevant they are, so any news of growing communist parties is appreciated imo
They have some pensioner donating them a few hundred thousends Euros every year. Nobody knows why the guy has that much money or why he does this. MLPD is Maoist, doesn't think Cuba and the DPRK are socialist and supports over a dozen US military bases in Syria. DKP and KPD are more traditionally Marxist-Leninist.
Anti leninists btfo.
What a ridiculous smear. It's based on a event where a Golden Dawn guy was speaking to a union and then KKE was coming afterwards, what should they have done in your opinion? Go home and leave the stage to the fascists?
Belgian here, not sure what you're talking about. The PTB/PVDA remained rabidly anti-revisionist until fairly recently, when they took a turn towards eurocommunism. Now they're essentially radical socdems in the vein of the French Parti de Gauche.
it's the same smear the socdems used 1932 against the striking communists in Berlin because the nazis were "supporting" the strike as well. and guess what happened, next election the strike opposing socdems and the nazis lost votes, the KPD gained and became strongest party in Berlin. anarchists are retarded brainlets, just like their openly bourgeois cuckdem brothers. secterian radicals and right wing opportunists are the same kind of anticommunist scum and deserve the bullet just like any other reactionary fascist.
or remember that time when anarchists broke into a building of PAME, vandalized the place and got all outraged when they got kicked out while the refugees "they homed" there were allowed to stay but "had to suffer the stalinist oppression"? by fucking Stalin i swear, these anarchists are disgusting parasites and nothing more, not one dead of them that did not deserve it. i'm even willing to count every anarchist as a credit for even fascist regime and give them a pass for another non-communist victim. not that this would reduce the numbers of their crimes drastically anyway, anarchists are irrelevant little shits with megalomania spreading nothing but hot air.
I was there the congress was great (did not vote though as I'm a memebre of the Communist youth not of the PCE yet), this is a vide I took of the closing interationale. Seriusely if the ML ideal is pushed, and not just a facade things could change quickly, there are memebers in the central commite now that in the past have openly talked about creating a ilegal branch of the party to defy the state power (similar to wat the bolsheviks did in Russia).
They can call themselves whatever they want. There are some decent people in the party, but its rotten to the core with liberalism, their rethoric is more based on identity politics, intersectionality and the ""middle class"" than class struggle. Let's see what happens, but i'll stick myself with the PCPE for now… PCPE it's not great either but at least they try
Could you redpill me on that?
This is now an Ancom hate thread
Nah this sectarianism , for just thes sake of it is retarded, the PCE has a good relation nowadays with the CNT (wich by the way have become irrleveant even to the degree that their escision the CGT has become bigger that them)
Yeah the thing about idpol is true, liberation moevemnts are important but they can not displace the classs struggle Is PCPE relevant?? Wikipedia says it has never had any political representation Also are the relations between the parties good?
ML in the theory
Traitors in the practice
(as a former member of the Communist Youth, I can say the PCE and its youth league are full of idpol, liberalism and anti-leninism)
The PCPE is the same shit but with less money.
Fixed that Groups in West-Euro/US/Aus etc are just edgelord soc-dems who like the color red
You have a plan to deal with the inevitable reaction to the rise of ML's? :^)
Well, the only parties that have any shot at state power at present are moderate DemSocs, so that's not really much of an issue is it?
If Communists want to become relevant again, drop the Stalinist class-compromises of 1936, and restore the Dictatorship of the Proletariat to the Communist Program.
No, because there never really was one with any influence.
Leftcom is right, sadly. Far left politics in the Anglosphere are virtually nonexistent aside from vapid circlejerks that tell you to vote for liberals.
Anti-sectarianism is for idiots, tbh. These ideologies are 100% incompatible and have always ended up fighting, no reason to pretend we're all friends.
I agree but although things are not perfect, in places like Portugal, Greece or Spain, things are different from anglo countries, here the Communist parties are strong (have thousands of members) and have presence in the streets, for example in this theree countries the biggest trade unions with millions of afilliates are communist party ones.
Meanwhile in socdemistan most commies are old dudes, in a bunch of different parties, larping as the vanguard. Makes me sad
MAybe their are inbound to change I agree the PCE has been pretty shitty, but in their ranks there are lots of Leninists , and maybe they can bring change to make the party revolutionary again, being this the first step towards it What happened to the KKE could happen in Spain
I'm not talking abou anti-sectrianism at every stance, but creating this kind of retarded sectarianism does not achieve anything only alienates both sides and derails the thread
Ml is making a comeback after Eurocommunism has been show to be just reformism, you just have to look at Greece,Portugal, Belgium ,Cyprus, and maybe (if this a true change) now Spain. Maybe socialism could come bak again, if the parties start becoming revolutionary
sectarianism doesn't mean you don't fight each other and are friends. it's refraining from taking actions that are of your ideologies interest only for the reason of dissociating from opponents. let's take for example the german KPD in 1923. there were radical sectarians that did not want to work with the SPD and rejected a "workers government" entirely.
on the other hand we had opportunists that then didn't take action during that coalition in Thuringia and Saxonia to organize armed resistance against the Berlin sent Reichswehr, wasting time instead having a debate over this. in the meantime in Hamburg we had Thälmann who first talked to USPD and VSPD which both rejected to join the fight (and a "workers government" in advance too), then went on directly to organize and arm the workers through the unions. which they had great deal of influence in because they weren't sectarians who rejected the reactionary unions lead by reformists.
Well this was not exactly like this, and besides the SPD had killed thousends of their members just 5 years back, the KPD correctly rejected a pact with the socialifascist party that basically did not want to fight openly against nazism, and were just the leftwing of German Kapital
It's impossible to bring back marxism-leninism in a party full of petty-bourgeois members… "Let's fight for feminism, veganism, animalism, and all the "-ism" bullshit you can imagine! Working class? Wtf is that?"
All the truly marxist-leninist revolutionaries must create new structures from the ground up, little by little, without stopping. Read, read, read and marxism-leninism will make a comeback in Europe (if it's ever been present)
Well the thing about petty-burgeois is a problem of the western labour aristocrazy, but I think is possible to radicaliza the party and maybe purge the anti-Leninist elements withoin it
How do they propose to seize state power?
Currently the PCE is in a coallition with Podemos (who are just a bunch of idpol reformists, I would not call them even true socialdemocrats), and will mantain it at least until next year. They will start retinking the strategy and incorporating a Marxist-Leninist line again, in the next moths, for now they are preparing different strategies to be selected by the newly elected central Comitee ,take into account it was literaly yesterday when the retun to ML was voted, and the new direction elected, if the change truely happens it could take months as it will be a restucturation of the party, their methods, and their approach on how to achieve socialism.
The problem is that, since the last year the media has been bombing the shit out of people with anticommunist propaganda, just because Podemos is being associated with communism and chavism from the moment it was created and gained force, as it was going to be the 2nd force in the parliament, from that very moment the burgeis got scared, making the media full of anticommunist and anti-chavism propaganda, spain is defending the venezuelan fascism
The people is now even more alienated just because the media is calling an idpol reformist party as podemos communists and chavism
idk what's the plan of the PCE, but even if they vote to m-l again, the are going to be seen as a not viable option
just because the shitload of propaganda the media is spreading since podemos appeared
lol that doesn't exist
Well what you are talking is about electoral sucess that although important, is not the most vital thing if they are going back to the ML line. Actually Eurocommunists (so the PCE fo the last 40 years) said that that Socialism can be achieved by "total democratization" of burgeoise elections, so they participated openly in them, and accept them as legitimate, droping the revolutionary character of their parties, and in some way rejecting class sutruggle.
In contrast the ML's think that burgeoise elections, are not a way to achieve socialism, it has to be achieved by revolution, and class struggle , so if they are consequent with going back to the Ml line they should most importantly than maybe still participate in burgeoise elections, creating a Workers movement (having presence in the streets, pushing for popular organization, spreading class conciusness…..) , and creating the conditions for a revolution to stablish socialism.
We will see if they are truely willing to go back to this, after years of reformists, and anti-Leninist controlling the party operatus, but this is the first staep to achieve it.
Literally nothing of value.
Shut the fuck up, I'm not a Spainard but its a beautiful country. I'll take Spain over the majority of the European shitholes any day.
I don't really think the PCE is going full ML, They are just a bunch of revisionists that want to get more youth militancy, I joined the UJCE because the are the real ML youth, but still this does nothing to the union of the working class
The CNT union is the biggest political movement that really works to spread class consciousness(like it did months ago with the portuarian stowage crisis) and they are overshadowed by the two other biggest unions, ccoo and ugt, both part of the "so called socialdemocrats" PSOE
You're such a fucking LARPer
Sectarian shitfling: The thread. good on the PCE
Bleh. I have high hopes but low expectations for the end of the Eurocommunists. Marxism-Leninism works when people who care are put in charge, but it proved incredibly weak in the face of opportunistic leaders. Stalin and Brezhnev were able to use the system to fill their coffers and ensure their own safety. Hell, Stalin did so much damage that when they actually got a guy in office who gave a shit (Khrushchev) he wasn't able to fix the rotten framework. I'll always support Syndicalism or Council Socialism over ML, but hey. We'll just see. Modern Europe is a lot different than early-1900s Russia, the institutions of democracy (if bourgeois democracy) are a lot more ingrained in Europe and won't likely be stamped out as easily by a Communist Party with full control and an authoritarian leader. Maybe it'll be different this time.
How would you have it done otherwise?
So can someone explain what the difference between Ml and eurocommuni is?
Holy fuck revisionists are delusional.
welp guess I'm a stalinist now
Well this is correct, but them being forced to make this move means, that maybe this could be the start of the party becoming revolutionary again. Maybe it will be a long process, and maybe the only way to truely reincorporate a ML line would be "purging" anti-Leninist elements in the party, but this also means the UCJE that as you say has never dropped Leninism are having a greater importance within the party
The UJCE has being trying to change the PCE from inside since forever(achieving little or nothing) but they also were the ones putting posters in cities and doing the open talks about marxism, ml and the organization of the working class
I'm pretty sure they reached to the youth(like me) and so the PCE felt like they were loosing impact and people, that's why they changed from Eurocommushit to ML
I'll be more than glad if the UJCE and the pro-ml part of the PCE purges the anti-leninist elite and elements and starts working with the unions to reach the workers too
what do you think about the now dissolved FRML ?
I do not think both things are related really, do yu now if the the peope in the FRML reentered in the PCE??
Basically Eurocommunist drops class struggle, the dictatorship of the proletariat, and Democratic centralism. Instead they sustain it is possible to achieve socialism, by a "total democratization" of burgeois democracy, so they become more moderate and try to become a mass movement (achieve electoral success)