The dialectic is in motion comrades. Trump is going to tear it apart bit by bit over the next four years...

The dialectic is in motion comrades. Trump is going to tear it apart bit by bit over the next four years. Anyone else excited but also terrified about what the new post-American world order is going to look like? Also what will this do for global communism? Will it make it easier for us to achieve?

Dont know the reason the other thread on this got killed
It was a fun Holla Forums spergout

Damn it what did I miss
We will be in a new great depression in about 2 years maybe sooner

Can someone give me a quick rundown of what this will accomplish?
please no "the richer will be richer and the poor will be poorer" explanation.

It's basically step one in returning us back to Industrial Revolution times and Ayn Randian mayhem. They'll be future steps. Each one will continue to get worse.

I haven't look into all of it, but strong emphasis on a silent return to the Industrial Revolution, just slow enough that the populace stays comfortable during the transition to hell.

I for one think that anyone who is excited for the revolution is absolutely counter-revolutionary. The revolution will not be exciting. It won't be enjoyable. It will be an utterly miserable slog. The days of armed revolution and liberatory fervor are long gone. Counter-insurgency and coalition building are the only viable ways forward and the left is less organized than ever. Neo-MLs will likely be the ones leading and that means we're basically consigned to failure from the very beginning. Fuck this gay earth.

This is a bad post

How so?

The future is far more unpredictable than this. Some ML could erupt and just fail for an enormous amount of reasons as another could rise up and succeed, or a syndicalist could rise up after and fail or succeed.

We just don't know, all we know is this can't last forever. I'm still relying on Chaos theory, especially in times like these, then I am in absolute predictions. After all, we live in a time that's hardly predictable.

Well, I was probably a bit harsh, as I'd say your description is fairly spot on.

But I think we need people to be excited for something better more than anything, though they should be prepared for what's in store. There's too much complacency in American culture, especially on the left.

As if Marxist Leninism is even in vogue with the American left. If anything it'll be comprised of mostly Anarchists.
And we all know how well Anarchists are good at resisting counter revolution.

True, I think that things will be fairly unpredictable when shit actually hits the fan. Currently most people active in leftist politics aren't doing it out of material necessity, and that leads to a lot of weirdos and LARPers being drawn to the left. Anything could happen, but it does seem like ML tendencies are dominant on the left even if they represent a minority of leftists.

I think the ideal stance on revolution would be something like "shit's fucked, and transforming society is necessary at this point in history". Too often leftists get overly caught up in the idea of transforming society and lose track of why society needs to be changed and they don't have any idea of what a viable path forward would look like.

I apologize as these are actually very good posts

This is a good post

Just because things have been slow up to this point doesn't mean they'll continue to be slow. There are decades where nothing happens and there are weeks where decades happen.

marxist-leninists have always seemed to dominate in some ways because they are the only ones who have actually provided a theoretical foundation for their worldview along with the basis of a program of action.

i'm not saying i even agree with MLs, only that they built the foundations for political action while other tendencies haven't and this is really the big difference.

but even MLs are kind of stuck in limbo because their theories are not being updated or expanded. they repeat the same things that have been repeated for a century even as the global situation has radically changed.

really, the new tax laws will not be a return to the dickensian days of the industrial revolution. those times were actually progressive in terms of generating wealth and industry. today's capitalism is the capitalism of decay and decline in which even productive industries will have their constiuent assets split up and resold, resulting in less jobs, less industry, and further accumulation of capital by a small number of financial firms.

i'm sorry for the tl;dr, but the lack of direction among socialists is rather frightening in an age of decline and forced austerity.

I wonder who could be behind this post.

It's not out of the woods yet, the House for some reason could not pass it, it could be struck down by a court, or it could even die in processing (been hearing that the chicken scratch parts might invalidate it as all bills have to be typed to be codified into law).

The only correct statement in that entire post.

I think you're underestimating capitalism's ability to pacify proletarian angst. At this point I'd wager a pink wave is more likely than a collapse.
Assuming Trump and the market fucks up enough to stimulate a revolution, which is very unlikely, and the revolution succeeds, which is unlikely as well, it depends on too many factors to say.

Please tell me that the Holla Forumsyps are actually defending this tax bill

Obviously it isn't going to lead immediately to communism. It might help it though by breaking the global bourgeoisie apart and forcing them to align themselves with various powerful nation-states. It would be the early 20th century all over again. They would be too busy fighting amongst themselves to stop a socialist revolution.

And again you're underestimating capitalism's ability to pacify proletarian angst. A Sanders socdem response is most likely going to happen against this tax plan, and capitalism will continue on. This is because while many burgers are apathetic to bourgeois democracy, they don't believe another system is possible or don't care enough to try to overthrow it. In addition, the left is too disorganized and small to make use of any disruptions. Even if we were to somehow get every ML, Anarchist, Democratic Cops of Americacuck, Trot, and any other snowflake to form a big-tent united organization it would be absolutely dwarfed by the lolberts and various reactionary currents within the US Republican part.

Off the top of my head:

Corporate tax rate lowered to 20 percent, from 35 percent

Much lower taxes overall if you make over a million dollars a year

Much lower taxes for pass-through businesses (i.e. LLCs)

Does away with almost all state and local tax deductions

Does away with the ability to deduct losses from fire, storm, shipwreck, or other casualty, or from theft.

Does away with the deduction for people who ride a bike to work

Does away with the teacher expense credit (teachers now have to pay for teaching supplies out of their own pocket) - though apparently the House version does not do this

Allows drilling in the last untouched part of Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge

Includes language that gives fetuses personhood


Some of them are because "muh god emperor trump" but any of them that actually have any reference to the content of the bill are at best lukewarm.
So yes, they are all defending it.

Holla Forums (especially 4/pol/) is filled with 14 year old suburbanites who have never even paid taxes. They just repeat dry republican memes about them and go back to whining about minorities and being virgins.

Pretty much agree



k e k


A lot of these guys are petty bourgeoisie. They actually do have a shot at becoming full on bourgeoisie at the moment so it's not that hard to imagine why they would support this bill. Also by harming workers it helps them (in the short term only of course.)

Fucking nihilists.

Wrong pic

I find it odd that I'm a lot more willing to throw myself at the barricades for social democracy than MLs and ancoms are for total revolution

The Republicans are a party of normal businessmen and deal-makers who use common-sense principles to free America from socialist tyranny with drunken scrawlings on restaurant serviettes

(I'm only half joking, most of my private sector employers ad libbed everything they did and signed contracts in strip clubs)

Holy shit this really is just a massive cash grab for the oligarchy. How will killing so many deductions to pay for this shit NOT piss off their white middle class base

Cool, why aren't American leftists using this as a wedge issues in advance of the mid-terms


I could live like a fucking king on $35k a year.

Yeah, I think the tempo of things is bound to speed up once shit hits the fan, but if people are facing off against the state the only two options that I see being viable (either taking power though coalition building or counter-insurgency) are going to be slow going.

I think there's plenty of groups on the left with a theoretical foundation for their worldview and a praxis to go along with it, but you do have a point here even despite that. There isn't anyone on the left with any idea of how to actually go about starting a socially transformative project, so people who LARP like the material conditions are the same as they were in the 30s have a much more well established program of action to carry out tbh. The only group that comes close to MLs in this domain are the D⁠SA imo.

Who do you think is behind this post? I realize it was a sort of pessimistic take, but I don't think it was unreasonably pessimistic tbqh. You really think that a revolutionary force could take on a modern nation state, by itself militarily or politically?

I think the first sentence
was fairly true tbh.

Who said anything about having a revolution in America? America needs to fall away from global relevance. I don't care what happens there as long as they become significantly weaker.