Paul Cockshott claims modern computing technology allows for planned economies to function near automatically with...

Paul Cockshott claims modern computing technology allows for planned economies to function near automatically with regulated and automated price control, wages and resource allocation.

But if this is remotely true, why are all current planned economies like Cuba still plagued by inefficient bureaucracies?

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Because they haven't read Cockshott

Because Pinochet killed Cybersyn.

Also how does Cockshott deal with the issue of cybersecurity?

Because it's in the bureaucracy's interest to maintain itself, and resist most forms of change. It's quite telling that they'd rather attempt some 'free'-market reforms than work towards constructing a cybernetic system.

Upon further research, I found which appears to be looking in to more low lever cybernetic applications.

I don't know if Cuba is interested in having that sophisticated of a command economy anymore. They've been pushing for market and cooperative reforms recently. Also they're not really known for having advanced computer technology either.

You have to see the bigger picture there. Cuba won't have computer-driven central planned economy, because it's elites and bureaucracy. Computers will make most of bureaucrats obsolete, which means losing not only the job, but also the position within hierarchical party. Same thing happened in Soviet Union- computer science was developing quickly, as did cybernetics. In 1952 Soviets build BESM, the fastest computer in the Europe at the time. You can imagine how great the SU cybernetics could be, if not for bureaucrats and elites (and number of other reasons).

So what happens in a digitally planned economy when the job I perform is automated? What if I'm forced into a job I dislike?
I'll admit I haven't read Cockshott, but to me this just sounds like obfuscated commodity production. I perform wage labor in return for goods. I do not own the MoP, nor am I self-sufficient.

Now I understand the "Stalinist" argument (Appropriating surplus value isn't capitalism per se), and I acknowledge that the Soviet system - even in it's latter - (though pre-Gorbachev) stages was better than what we have today. But how does this not just run into the same problems: Scores of unemployed people that aren't self-sufficient?
Am I allowed to just retreat to some rural farm? (Assuming it's self-sufficiency is even possible)
Inb4 "Read a fucking book"

Aren't you a based nazi poster? If you are, then thanks for contributing to discussion here

C&C's system aims to replace the current mode of production for exchange with a system of production for use, wherein use is determined both through democratic planning, automated planning, and limited market forces. Probably the most significant difference is the currency of the proposed system, a form of labour vouchers that are non-transferable and correlated (though not exactly fixed to) the amount of work you do. In turn, through the algorithms C&C design for planning, goods can be 'priced' based on the amount of SNL required to make them, then adjusted based on market forces to account for supply and demand, which future plans look at and correct.

The democratic nature of the system can prevent people from falling through the cracks in the system. There's nothing stopping a community from allowing you your own farm, given that you still contribute somehow.

but also
read the damn book, it's short and easy

all economies are planned economies

why is pepe poopoo in rain?

because he's a shit meme

Almost like they don’t use modern computing or have a cybernetc infrastructure or something.


How do you think DPRK and Cuba (also China to an extent) have survived so long? They actually are using the internet for planning.

Le "scientific doctrine" is an inefficient way to organize large groups. Central planners are effectively oligarchs. Those who are honest are inexperienced, those who are experienced are dishonest.

Cockshott is a retard who doesn't factor in firm size when 'proving' value heavily correlates with price. Read chaper eleven of reclaiming Marx's capital.

How do financial markets and corporations?

Also, they lack a self-sufficient economy. Cuba is too much dependent on imports of almost everything so that they are constrained by the world market, which is dominated by imperialist powers.

They don't

The proposal would make many people in the bureaucratic apparatus redundant and reduce the power of those still there. That's also why the proposals of Glushkov et al weren't adopted, not their computational complexity (this may sound like a bold claim since some stuff they originally proposed was literally uncomputable at the time and for decades to come, but it's trivial to make more modest variants by aggregating things into fewer categories or only adopting the calculation for separate parts of the economy).

Looks like a non sequitur (I mean by you). I don't see why the question whether work time is good for predicting prices in capitalism or not should have much bearing on how to calculate under socialism. Of course, if one has faith in the efficiency and soundness of capitalism and is against socialism, then a big discrepancy existing would be another mark against the proposal, but I suppose that's not your position.


Its not a golden bullet, and go ahead, write the program. Its not easy as it sounds. It would mean AI is a dictator telling you to wake up at 6.53 and dress in 4 min, etc. You have a schedule in your phone and you can organize your life like that, do you do it?. No, and you dont need to be a bureaucrat. Commies are at fault of not creating an utopia, again. Comminism doesnt work, again.

Sounds pretty good when you realize that your working day would be something like 4 hours long at most.

Then don't support centralized planning, ignorant rightist moron.

As opposed to the free land of "be here at 9:50 or you're fired"?

For the same reason the Soviet Union didn't do it, it would have rendered the Nomenklatura redundant.

No bureaucratic dictatorship is going to abolish the bureaucracy.

Then what's the problem? If Wall Street can shift around literal trillions I don't see how the average country with a GDP several orders of magnitude lower can't handle its economy like that.


fresh cockshott meme noice

They arent self sufficient, in fact it would be extremely hard for any island nation to be self sufficient due to the fact that theyre, well, an island. As such they dont have the capabilities to self produce cybernetics necessary to automate central planning. Islands more than anything have to depend on trade due to their own natural material shortcoming, trade that is now globally dominated by imperial powers, so please dont smear the bureaucrats of Cuba without understanding the necessities of them. Thank you

t. Cuban bureaucrat watching ASCII pr0n on the hydraulic ternary computer at "work" while gobbling up dissident kidneys

t. First world gringo neet that unironically likes armchairs

Before you go back to your "work" of rubberstamping documents without reading them, would you mind telling me how having foreign trade means you can't computerize the economy? Towards a New Socialism has a chapter on foreign trade.

Why do people hate Cockshott? Is it because he is a STEMlord?

It's because he's pushing the labour voucher nonsense that might have made sense in Marx's age but today is a reactionary idea.

Because Cuba is a Vacation Republic.

Because he shows that planned economy is viable option, without just explaining why markets are not in (your) rational self-interest or leftcom-tier autistic screeching against any proletarian organization to destroy capitalism.

Are you one of those fags suggesting that anyone should be able to request anything anytime or saying that money in for-use economy are almost labour vouchers anyway? Or are you just simple liberal?

Trading will permit the access towards electronics that will have the ability to computerize the economy, trade =/= market you fucking leftcom, go and try to make computers without the necessary resources and production machines, you cant. You utter fucking retard

I'm one of "those fags" who can tell artificial scarcity and actual shortages apart.

leftcom pls go

Have you heard of this book?

You should read it, brainlet.

rude I'm not a leftcom

This is beyond undialectical, this is practically unmaterialist it is so far removed from reality.

bump comrade

By today's standards, the amount of computing power needed for a central computation like the one in TANS is something within in the reach of what one average bloke in the west can get by buying 1 (one) computer for average blokes. The computing power for doing that is already in Cuba, many times over. The terminals interacting with the center don't need any computing power. Transmitting the data isn't wizardry either. The bureaucracy won't reform itself, that is all.