A socialist movement is slowly growing here in The United States, but how is the socialist movement doing in Europe? Do you guys suffer from the same "socialism is when the government does stuff" problem? Also, is Eastern Europe spooked on the topic of socialism? Is socialism a lost cause in Europe?
Question for Euro-comrades
Not as much. In my country (Germany) socialism is pretty mich associated with common ownership of means of production. However many European parties call themselves socialist but are Social Democrats, but everybody knows that. They know that there is a difference between socialism as a system and a SocDem party calling itself socialist for historical reasons. It's definitely nowhere near the hysteria of "bailouts are socialist" however there is an increasing tendency of alt-lite Ben Shapiro type bullshit that gains traction amongst young people that regurgitate American right-wing talking points, calling mild leftists "libtards" etc. (the word liberal in Europe is usually associated with right-wing classical liberals).
There reason there is no European socialist movement is because it's not a country. Varoufakis tried to start one but we have to see how he goes. That being said, the EU is the most anti-socialist organization there is. I'm not just talking about Greece, also about Portugal, which has recently proven that neoliberal ideologes are retards and Keynesian social democracy is not that bad, which the EU is increasingly hostile against since the they don't adhere to the austerity dogma.
The EU is the gravedigger of Europe and must be crushed, any leftist who thinks that is "populism" or that the EU can be reformed is de facto an useful idiot for the neoliberal establishment.
Never heard of something like that before.
God this is definitely the worst. American cultural and ideological hegemony is fucking awful and the slow seeping in of the american understanding of politics into the civil sphere in europe is legitimately dangerous.
What I meant to ask was if there were any socialist movements in any of the european countries
Fuck off lol
not an arguement :^)
France. We have a lot more of far-right activists but their ideology is typically very weak and tied to questionable individuals.
Only yesterday I was talking to a student who told how we should privatize all healthcare. You know, with the usual talking points:
And then, finally:
I'm gonna sell my fucking mom into slavery if this guy didn't pick up these talking points from watching Ben Shapiro, Molyneux or PJW. The way he phrased things was so American as well.
The interesting thing about the French far-right is that they don't advocate for liberal economic politics but actually for a Keynesian welfare state. That makes them more dangerous, but also gives the left agonizing depression since it's way more complicated to choose between a neoliberal banker and right-wing Keynesian than between a neoliberal banker and a neoliberal right-winger.
Tbh over here it is pretty comfy.
Eastern euro here, from the baltics. I'm sorry to disappoint, but we are completely embracing the right-wing neoliberal bullshit on the maximum capacity. Fortunately, even our far-right and neoliberals do accept universal healthcare and semi-free college education (meaning some fields in universities have tuition-free vacancies you can qualify if you have good grades or such). Economically speaking, we are better off than burgerland, but social values are very much spooked. Eastern europe is on a large scale pretty nationalist, homophobic, sexist and such. This might sound like a good news for you "oh finally some place free from idpol" but it really is not - right-wing idpol is dominant mindset here. People here are very much brainlets when it comes to spooks, and regard all liberal social values, and sometimes even economically socdem notions such as "speaking in defense of working class" as "full communism".
The very working-class, bottom-of-the-barrel proles here are very much spooked into far-right rhetorics, especially into believing nationalism to be the ultimately desirable mindset, and they are often opposed to neoliberalism for all the wrong reasons. If you want to find good left-wing thought in Europe, looks for Yanis Varoufakis, Slavoj Žižek, Comrade Corbyn or labor movements in France, but disregard most of Eastern Europe, for we are a lost cause. I don't say this lightly, trust me I would like so much to deliver good news about my home region being the upholder of socialism but instead, our developments only give hope for morons over at Holla Forums.
I am from Poland and yes - eastern-central Europe, especially Poland is very sceptical towards communism, mainly due to history and to mistreatment from the Russian side and general oppession from the Polish "socialist" state. When I see an argument on internet forums involving conservatives (and nationalists) versus liberals/progressives they try to attack the other side through the accusations of "crypto-communism".
There is however some hope; a large portion of the society due to communism is somewhat distrustful towards the state. There are also people who have suffered a lot due to wild capitalism and privatisation (aome of them were even kicked out of their homes because the owner of the building that owned it before WW2 was found). There are some active anarcho-syndycalist movements in Poland and I believe that they have the potential to be a force of change. However, they have to win the competition in the "free market place of ideas" with current dominant ideas, especially among young people who often heavily support lolbertatianism and nationalism.
Portugal's finance minister is among the favourites for the presidency of the Eurogroup. It's all people talk about here when they talk about him. Even Schäuble loves him now:
I hope to operate the synthesis between those camps because there is no reason for the right to be allowed to steal ideas from the left.
Is Razem much of a thing or is it just some obscure party at the fringe?
The left is 100% dead in Europe, we're certainly going to fall under fascism during the next big crisis.
The left in Europe only has 2 faces:
1º Video related, feminists man hating idpols
2º Middle class yuppies who honestly believe there's no poverty in Europe, just selfiness
As an example. The German SocDem party states that everyone in germany has a great live, they deny elders can't live with their miserable pensions, the youth has 35% rates on risk of poverty and even that there's people who's poor even if they have a job, they insist that the only reason someone would rejet mass migration is because of racism
The closest thing to the left is in Belgium "Partij van de Arbeid van België" and UK with Corbyn. There's simply no political left in Europe but such repulsive liberals that make the american ones look like good people
It's not that obscure since they actually have a chance to pass the 5% threshold. However, they are socdems at most (somewhat like Corbyn and Sanders). Despite that I still support them because it's the best option that exist in mainstream Polish politics and their victory might convince some people that maybe socialism is not pure evil after all.
A REVOLUTION IS SURELY BREWING!
According to Merkel every German has arround 3000€ every month. Of course they just took the income average which includes the billions of millions of German porky who has been profoundly profiting from this crisis. German porky is one of the most extractive ones in the West - low wages and a ridiculous low reinvestment rate leaves gives us a growing economy but no actual economic development.
And of course, the German media paints the refusal of the German bourgeoisie to reinvest as a "precautionary, reasonable measure" and that "circumspection" is a "traditional German virtue". This would not be as bad if the state would invest and stimulate, as we have one of the highest tax revenues in history right now, but it won't do anything because of enforced austerity. This is extremly short-sighted of the German government and it might have detrimental negative impacts in the near future if this development isn't stopped. Sometimes I think the German government and economists believe that we can be a top five economy globally by exporting fridges and cars, as we did the last 50 years, and that the world economy with increasing digitalization and Chinese competitiveness are not at all outpace our more and more lukewarm "export hits".
What are your predictions about life after Merkel? I know very little about the political landscape outside Merkel being queen neolib.
There is nobody in the CDU that could replace her, maybe von der Leyen which would be more of the same (austerity, neoliberalism) except this time with more hawkishness on Russia.
It's pretty open which way the SPD might go, maybe they will return to social democracy, but I don't have high hopes. Greens are full neoliberals at this point, FDP is by definition, so Jamaika might come in the future once the migrant thing settled down - remember that the Greens had zero problems with agreeing to the worst neoliberal measures (such has enforcement of more corporate influence at universities and tax cuts for the rich) and only got hung up about an irrelevant side issue whether or not migrants would be allowed to bring their entire family. I don't the SPD to be able to form any majority in the future besides another grand coalition, and R2G (SPD, Greens and Linke) is just utopian at this point. The Greens and the SPD are closer to the AfD than they are to DieLinke, not even kidding.
If there will be a rerun election, what do you think will happen?
The exact same. Probably with a bit more SPD gains. The situation will not be different, there will still only be Jamaica or great coalition as the only options. R2G will never happen unless the party leadership of DieLinke decides to purge all actual leftists and the AfD is still a persona non grata.
Also what happened to that attempted coup as Wagenknecht? She is still there I see…
She can't be ousted because she is the only popular politician they have now that Gysi is in the background. There is currently no need for a coup, but should there be the option of R2G on the table, and Wagenknecht and her allies refuse to comprise with the SPG and the Greens, this could very well end in an ugly meltdown.
DieLinke can be awfully reformist if the wrong people get into power. In Thüringen, they are the state government and have supported the privatization of highways there.
The problem is, porky media picks on DieLinke almost as bad as they do on the AfD. They have drawn parallels between Wagenknecht and the AfD before, trying to make her out to be a NazBol and without a doubt they will be claiming that this is proof that DieLinke "is unable to govern" et cetera, whenever they say stuff like they want public healthcare they are being shut down and blamed for being "irresponsible".
Organisationally what are Die Linke like? are they affiliated with trade unions and such? is the membership actually active?
Why are euros such cunts
I guess Russia is still the country in Europe most likely to go Socialist.
DieLinke is a big-tent party for all leftist currents left of the SPD. These are the main factions:
- Forum Democratic Socialism: SocDem reformists that are more democratic than socialist, if you catch my meaning. Opposed to more radical tendencies.
- Network Reformist Linke: Even more reformist, actively advocates for coalitions with neoliberals
- Socialist Linke: Eurocommunists. They proclaim to be Marxists, but are reformists - so to say, "true" DemSocs, unlike the other faction that is only in name
- Emancipatory Linke: Radical democrats that fetishize workplace democracy. Big on civil liberties and feminism. Embraces membership in communist parties as well.
- Antikapitalist Left: Socialists, not of any particular flavor, but staunchly against capitalism and imperialism.
- Communist Platform: Marxist-Leninists, ex-GDR hardliners, actual commies. Secretive, don't publish the name of their members.
And yes, the membership is active, there multple organization within the party that support Palestinian Liberation, work with trade unions, etc. for example. DieLinke isn't a bad party, but there is the impending danger of left-liberal IdPol reformists becoming too much of a majority.
The truth is that EU effectively killed any other political option except for hardcore neoliberalism. EU is neoliberal per se and anything different is unacceptable. There are and there will be parties with different programs but their efforts will be purely cosmetical, they won't do jack shit because the system above them won't allow it. Merkel and Macron are our reality and our future as well. EU army is being formed as we speak to physically defend the entire concept. Europe will become more and more Americanized in order to compete with American (and growing Chinese) economic grip. It's the only way Europe and its peoples can still stay relevant in the 21st century. The worst thing? It won't go down anytime soon. I've been listening the tirades of EU's imminent collapse for almost 20 years. During that time it has only grew in numbers and it has been even more federalized. Brexit is a joke and it didn't do shit. The best Brits can hope for is to become a sock puppet of the US at the continent's door.
Eastern Europe will finish its integration in the EU with the rest of the Balkans joining in a few years. This means more cheap underpaid labor for the Western businesses.Socialism is a thing of the past there, the transition has occurred as early as in the 90s when new money crony capitalists had a field day over there. The population has been fed anti-communist propaganda for over 20 years, carefully conditioned for plumbing and wiping toilets in Western European countries. Only the old people will sometimes remember the old times with nostalgia, but they will die soon anyway.
Europe is fucked just as much America is. It's nothing too shocking, it's a logical conclusion of rampant Americanization that followed after Europe's self-destruction in two world wars. America doesn't stand a chance either. It will only continue to descend further into its own made Hell of spectacle, ignorance and greed. Any genuine social movement will be swiftly co-opted by the deep state and their useful idiots. With all said, America will soon meet its exact twin brother across the pond.
Here in America, everyone is fed up with the deep state, both parties, the establishment, and capitalism in general. In fact, not only is socialism not as much of a dirty word anymore, but I see people constantly get more and more radicalized by the day. If things continue as they are now, us americans could probably get a good socialist movement going
I do agree with you but this is a little bit neoliberal kool-aid you drank there. There is absolutely no reason to believe that we can only be competitive through austerity, quite the opposite actually, a massive state capitalist Keynesian investment program would be better. Europe has still more people than the US and is the biggest economic power in the world.
Leftism is not on the rise in Europe. Nationalism is.
Italy here. The communist party is a statistical insignificance, the biggest party is a proto-fascist group of idiots and opportunists, the rest of the political spectrum is an insipid mix of EU lapdogs and neoliberal bullshit, the last four governments were not voted in office with the excuse of keeping the country afloat and now even Berlusconi, which I hoped we were done with, is coming back these coming elections.
I… I don't know just burn this country to the ground, it does not deserve to live.
I think the only point that you got wrong is that the EU won’t be America’s competitor in the world, it will be it’s successor. America won’t continue as a successor to the EU because it’s education system is to week, it’s people have failed to become bilingual, America has been to deindustralized, America is economically depressed as is experiencing major ethnic tensions, it humiliated it’s self with the Iraq War and drained it’s stockpiles of cash, and it’s tech companies are to hated by the general population. America went to far into neoliberalit destruction to be a world power, and America has failed to be modern enough for the future. The EU will be in the 21st century as America was in the 20th century. The transition will be complete once all the American tech companies fully re-regesture in Ireland (a EU country).
it's getting good in the UK, qw havw Corbyn, McDonnel et al. looks like labour is sliding left
Here in eastern Europe half of the population thinks that communism=Satan the other half thinks it's the best thing ever. The communist parties are dead, most of them went full NAZBOL (i'm not kidding) and the younger generation becomes more and more nationalistic and even fascist most of the time.
The people who support socialism are old folks who lived under it, so there isn't much revolutionary potential
I'm from Hungary BTW
Is "populist" a bad word in Germany/Europe? I'm American it doesn't really have any negative association for me.