ok guys since I was told that christian democracy is not communism by leftypol. I was told that welfare state and labor unions is not communism/socialism then was is it?
I was told by some anarcho-communists that communism is veganism and pro-lgbt (this is not a joke)
I was told that communism is just atheism and materialism (so is Democritus a communist/socialist?)
I was told that communism is mass production owned by the workers (free markets because production is owned by the market which is owned by the people thus by workers) which seems to me like nowadays system.
additionally I was told that mass production is owned by the workers, but in reality is owned by the government (even in the anarchy, it will function like in the dictatorship of the workers), so what is the point of saying that "production is owned by the workers" if in reality "production is owned by the government" always?
I was told that communism is "you create your own business and pay taxes in order to get services from the government" which seems to me like nowadays system
I was told that communism is abolishment of money, technology and civilization and returning to the times of BC by some anarcho-communists
Also after reading the first chapter of la capital, marx goes into this philosophical idea of economics (not really used by modern economics) that value of a product is only determined by the work force put in it, and does not include that the value also depends on the demand and supply of the product, also I am not sure if he ever introduces the concept of demand and supply later in the book?
Also the communist manifesto, the book is mostly about "walfare state" and "labour union", but at the end he adds the concept of workers rising up and creating dictatorship of proletariats (in which the production would be owned by the government, and reeducation will take place to create classless society) which will lead to anarchy in which mean of production will be owned by the workers (free market by my understanding). I mean it just sounds like the ultimate goal is to have the system which we have now (free market, taxes, welfare state), but no government and classless (also nowadays we don't divide people into "classes" like in the past).
that feeling you get when you take your best gal out for a malt and a soda
it's just not liberal capitalism
Communism is public ownership of production. Anyone who brings up civil rights is a revisionist. Market communism is known as mutualism, and is a society in which everyone is in atrade union and self employed, though, if you want, I can give you more information.
Broadly speaking: Abolition of human relations centered around profit and replacing them with relations centered around collective benefit. I think this can apply to most socialist ideologies.
Maybe a market socialist or mutualist in particular like would be excluded since markets are kind of profit-based.
ok guys so I watch these first 2 videos, and basically what I got is that socialism is democratically run markets by the people. So each company is run democratically and how companies interact with each other is also decided democratically. (so socialistic support free and democratic market which benefits the society and not individuals) Is this correct?
No socialism is predicated by production for use which means markets cannot exist since they are predicated on production for exchange.
Let me break it down for you. Communism is not just an economic system, it's a political economic system. Communism is a system that produces goods directly for consumption, has no class structure, and has no state. Most people today need to sell their labor power to survive, and most of the value their work creates goes to the capitalists, which they then use to enhance their own position and to compete with each other. Under communism people wouldn't need to sell their labor power to survive, and the need for most people to work would be eliminated by the advanced productive capabilities that capitalism helped to build (but that aren't fully utilized towards a social good under capitalism)
markets redistribute goods based on people's ability to pay, not their need.
Capitalism is not just economic system, it's a political economic system. Pointing this out is meaningless.
I disagree. Capitalism is commonly held to be a solely economic system, and the connection between the two under capitalism is not obvious to most people who buy into capitalist ideology.
I am just thinking how socialism works, since people say socialism is predicated by production for use, but no one here tell me really how. But the videos say that socialism is just supposed democratize the companies and democratize how they interact with each other (if someone is going to tell me that no factories can exist and no production can exist in socialism in order to have "production owned by the workers" then what is the point of socialism?)
literally everything in your post that claims to be communism is not communism in the marxist sense, (or in the ML sense if you don't believe that a government can be the expression of proletarian rule) also you misunderstand labour theory of value, value does not mean price, Marx agrees that supply and demand does affect price. the fundamental value, which is to an extent reflected in price, is labour. I think you are on the right path, keep reading, and if there is something you wonder about come on Holla Forums to ask about it
Nobody tells you how what? What is it that you want to know? Are you asking how society decides what gets produced and how much?
If you want to get general idea how could planned economy work, reading "towards new socialism" by Cockshott is a good choice. But nobody will tell you exact details of future, we don't have crystal ball and there are more socialist ideologies than parties in average European parliament.
Nobody will tell you that.
Dog, you are framing things as they are now, where government doesn't represent the will of the people. What we aim to create is a temporary government in which THE PEOPLE are THE GOVERNMENT. Read some Bookchin. When we vote for politicians who get into government, promise us the world and then turn on their voters in favor of their donors, you cannot say the government represents the people. On the contrary we aim to overthrow both the current bourgeois government and the capitalists that tug the puppet strings, such that we can create a government that truly represents the will of the people until its functions become redundant, and it dissolves. That is largely the politics of communism
Christianity isn't incompatible with communism I guess, but religion is an abstraction that often stops people from being able to comprehend the material conditions of society and often actually reinforces or protects these conditions.
Communism is a hostile takeover of "capitalist" production because workers aren't being paid enough. All else you read about (women's rights, animal rights, ecology, LGBT) are merely anectdotes of "capitalists" indiscriminately exploiting various types of workers. Production isn't owned by the state per se, it's owned by a council. Everything ultimately connects back to the state because everything is connected to the Communist Party, which practically always changes the government to a one-party system when it takes power. Communism is atheist because atheism became a cover for witchcraft during the Victorian Era when Marx was alive.
I watched all these videos (the playlist and two parts of the presentation) I still dont understand socialism especially the how these videos are supposed to explain: -veganism = communism (how do you get there?) -anarchy (they said that all the society should play a role in the production and in the decision making, so it already creates a government which is direct democracy) -moneyless state (it says that socialism drops the price of a commodity and all the products have the value which is labour put in it, you still need the money or another type of abstract thing to show your amount of labour done, so From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, you need to show that you have worked for your needs)
there is no connection between veganism and communism. It's just lifestylist meme, don't take them seriously. anarchy simply means "equal"-classless society. It simply means that nobody will have power over you moneyless society is long-term goal. Wast majority of problems created by currencies as we know them can be fixed with labor vouchers, which are compatible with classless society and can exist just as a proof that you worked and deserve some amount of scarce resources - Cockshott wrote good book about it.
Not markets, but businesses. And these are not socialism inherently but Richard Wolff argues for them as a means to transition to a socialist system. The idea behind socialism is two fold: This is somewhat easy, many way for it to happen. State made up of workers can capture the means of production, or it can be more bottom up, such as eliminating private ownership by making it workers controlled, or unions could capture them, ect. Much more difficult and comes with time. However once class is abolished money becomes less important. As production becomes more efficient scarcity becomes less of an issue, this could become easier.
All in all, socialists all agree on what communism is, but we disagree on how to get there. That is why there is a multitude of tendencies, such as anarchists, leninists, leftcoms, ect. But these all involve some sort of transitionary phase of varying degrees which is where things get confusing. That transition is NOT communism, thus USSR having not completing the transition was never communist, just trying to achieve it before it was snuffed out by western powers
what is up with social-democrats and other socialist parties. Logically they are not socialistic. why they don't transition into socialistic state
If they do not want to transition to socialism, they can be leftists like succdems aka. capitalists with human face but they are not socialists
no, these are markets based on the th lvt, so its not for profit, you only get what you make, meaning you can't capitalize on shit
capitalist markets are based on the ltv, whats your point? the law of value was something to be abolished, not some kind of standard to uphold.
Then you're delusional as you can't run a society without some semblance of value for labour.
then why are you even here? /liberty/ is that way.
Anarchy doesn't mean no government/rules, anarchy means no social hierarchies Representative government is hierarchical because elected representatives are treated in a certain sense as above the average citizen, for example the fact that the president has a security team to protect him whereas carpenter joe does not This necessarily also calls for the abolition of the capitalist mode of production because the capitalist class and the worker class have a hierarchical relationship wherein the capitalist is above the worker Direct democracy does not suffer from the hierarchy problem because every citizen is treated as an equal, and every citizen votes directly for the issues at hand, as opposed to pleading to some sacred representative