How do we make Marxism less Judeo-Christian-centric?

Soon-to-be revert to Islam here. I've been a communist for 10 years of my life, however the more and more I look at it the more I find it inconsistent with my religious beliefs. Not just because materialism goes against Islam, but because I'm starting to notice how rooted in Judaism and Christianity Marxism and its predecessors really are.

For instance, Marxism seems to be nothing more than a secularized version of Jewish (and thus Christian) messianism. Kabbalah, which is the root of Zionism, is a dialectical system and there's evidence Hegel dabbled it in. Marx himself came from a long line of rabbis and no doubt had direct knowledge of kabbalah (in particular the Lurian kabbalah). Marx was also a freemason.

As a soon-to-be Muslim, I want to see Marxism be shed of all this corruption and be remolded into something more in-line with Islam. I do believe Marxism is scientific, not a big deal since Islam inherently promotes critical thinking and analytic science. But I simply can't call myself a Marxist anymore. Pls halp.

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read marx

Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew.

Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew.

What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.

The Jew has emancipated himself in a Jewish manner, not only because he has acquired financial power, but also because, through him and also apart from him, money has become a world power and the practical Jewish spirit has become the practical spirit of the Christian nations. The Jews have emancipated themselves insofar as the Christians have become Jews.

In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Judaism.

That doesn't answer my question. I'm talking about a total revamping of Marxism to shed all of its Jewish-Christian (western) truisms.

You were never a Marxist. You are Unmaterialist. You and your spooky magic can go to hell.

Marxism, as it exists right now, is rooted in spooky Jew-Christian magic. Islam also prohibits all superstitious thinking. In a sense our religion is much closer to materialism.


Except for the most superstitious of all, the entirely Unmaterialist perception of reality and the belief in an allpowerful God.
You're going to read this and stop.

Did photos of chaste brown women in millet fields finally get to you?

Actually study Islam. The Qur'an itself is even written from the perspective of class struggle.

Muslim sexuality is much more in line with a socialist culture than western sexuality. Hijab was even meant as a means of equalizing porky women and prostitutes.

The problem that youre having i assume that its the problem that Marx described as "opiate of the masses". If you wish to live your life as islam says go for it, however a spiritual text, at least in my mind which is very ignorant of religion mind you, should be for the individual and the individual's relationship with his or her deity. In the end we all are humans and we succumb to materialist need, which, right now, the control of that material is unjustly away from the majority of humans, denigrating them and subjecting them to slavery or renting (no difference from a prostitute mind you). Secular, not atheist, application in order to root all humans in community in order to assure the most ethical production of our needs.
In the end what i guess im saying is that the needs of the incredibly diverse human species cannot be constrained by one religion, and i think (ignorantly i stress again) that religions and their institutions must reform in order to fight towards this greater good.

I too have considered converting to Islam can you tell me what the process is like?

Why muslims are so fucking pretentious when they speak about their stupid fucking religion? I was never interested in theology, and I can understand that islam may have more meat from that point point of view. Still go fuck yourself. Religion got nothing to do with socialism, and islam is especially cancer

Find a Muslim teacher to help you. Learn Qur'an. Find your nearest masjid and consult an imam.

Islam is entirely about the greater good.

Do I have to get circumcised? I'm not too comfortable with that.

So is christianity yet institutions have absolutely subjected their flock to oppression and abuse, easiest example of both islam and christianity is sharia and the inquisition. This is why so desperately religion needs to distance itself from the veins of power

You should, since it's about faith.

Socialism is based entirely on Judeo-Christian messianism.

There is no compulsion in Islam.

Sorry user but that is historically inaccurate, even if we were to ignore modern day radicals Islam spread through conquest as well as through peaceful proselytizing, and often times faith would justify conquest as would conquest justify faith. Dont make marx more muslim, make islam more marxist, should be easy by your point of view

I'm trying to do both.

Socialism isn't Christian, stop. Marxism isn't Christian, stop. Just quit user.

I don't even know what the fuck that means and I don't even know how you jumped to that conclusion.
This is no different from varg calling Christianity a jewish implant.
I don't want to take and anti intellectual stance but who gives a fuck about this intellectual theological circle jerk.
Fuck you. You threat women like animals, i want none of that shit.
Read hoxha


They don't treat women like animals they treat women like women and ensure an egalitarian distribution of sex.

he's actually right, you're just historically illiterate

Nearly everything in western tradition comes from Christianity or Judaism. Everything. Even modern secularism is just secularized Christian thought.

Qur'an gives women actual rights unlike the Bible.

Prove me wrong then? How is Marxism in anyway Christian when it is a materialist philosophy that rejects religion?
Pro tip you can't.

Woah there Boi you're losing me here.

Marxism is predicated on concepts and method entirely taken from Judeo-Christianity.

Consider reverting to not living instead.


Half of what they give to the man tho. Again tho, who the fuck cares? Religion shouldn't be near a state or ideology.
Also hoxha

Because the Bible isn't a strict code of law like Sharia is faggot. And also this is idpol garbage, WE ABOUT ECONOMICS AND TAKING TOOTHBRUSHES HERE WHITEY

Daily reminder, Marx was never a materialist.

Daily reminder, "dialectical materialism" was Engels' thing, not Marx's.

Like you know what any of this shit means.

Shariah isn't a monolith.

No but it is a strict set of law codes which are to be followed, with additional law codes bolstering what it doesn't cover. I'm simply stating that comparing the Bible, a theological based book, and the Qur'an, a book with codes of laws set out to run a country, is a bit disingenuous.

Marx and Engel agreed on materialism. Marxism as it exists is materialist. Socialism should be and will continue to be materialist, whether or not Marx had ten thousand rabbi ancestors.

I am, but that's not my real voice. Here's me with A.W. and Hyperion if you want to hear what I sound like without the pitch-shifter.

You'll have to elaborate on what you mean by this because, quite frankly, the materialism vs. idealism contradiction isn't a contradiction at all.

Shariah is theological based. Why do you believe Islam is legalistic when all it is, is just a means of coming closer to Allah. It's literally egoist virtue ethics.

I don't need to know what they mean in detail to know that Palestinians are being killed because of it.

Materialism and idealism are in direct conflict. Literally
It's no contest, and 9nly one is fit to be the basis of Socialist theory and practice.

Adhering to materialism is an idealism. How do you know matter is only what exists? If you rely on essentialism, you're an idealist.

I like how you're not giving any examples to back your assertions up. /s

You go to the ovens last

I don't need to give an example, it is no common test because they are ridiculous, and that's what we are arguing about. You think the spooky ghost subjective reality ideology is real, and I'm laughing at you for it. Start arguing anytime.

While some of it is theological it's still a perfectly fine set of legal codes that countries run by. If you tried to run a country via the bible's teaching then you aint got shit for a legal system.

wow, for a "materialist" I'm sure you think Marxism came from a void. From Hegel's philosophy and French politics. Literally read the Doctors of the Church and you'll think that you're reading Mao or Trotsky, as the pope said, Marxism is just the fulfillment of a Christian dream and not to be Eurocentric, but I don't see Marxism having arisen anywhere else in but Europe. the idea of there no being a religion in communism is itself a Christian idea, there's no religion in Heaven you know. Why? Because it had served its purpose.

Or just read zizek, badiou or negri, i don't feel like going in depth in a board where "materialism" is used as en empty platitude, and where people have such an unsophisticated understanding of religion that they confuse it for its institutions or reduce it to a collection superstitions. you owe your naturalism to the christian theologians.

le "opium" phrase connoted something different in marx's day anything.

If you adhere to a Platonic idea of communism, you're an idealist.

If you believe there is a reality which exists beyond your initial experiences or emotions, you're an idealist.

If you believe there's more to your emotions than just chemicals in the brain, you're an idealist.

Perhaps we should kill this dichotomy once and for all?

or just read zizek, negri or badiou

Christianity's messianism comes from Judaism. Christianity itself is a pagan doctrine which worships a man as G*d, pure idolatry.

Also, the church fathers are hated by most Anglos, namely Protestants. Study the eastern churches (Antioch, Coptic, Greek, Ethiopian, Russian) and their theology is quite different from anything practiced in the West.

You are nuts if you think that is a genuinely logical train of thoughts.
Yeah and the pope doesn't know what he is talking about. You can't just say "X is y". "Holla Forums is a nazi forum" doesnt change the forum in any way, and the same works for the popes babbling about Communism.

Literally not an argument
Argue at any time why idealism is better than materialism, they aren't opposed, or why Marxism is Christian.
I'll argue with one of your points tho in case I'm not getting some nuance here.
Materialists believe there is a physical, objective world outside of their senses, what you said describes idealism.

i actually agree, i just mean that there was this idea of an emancipatory collective which has been lost in christianity. i absolutely agree that secularism and the idea of god being man are christian ideas

there would have been no marxism without christianity. that is what im saying, distort all u want

Which is a toxic notion.

I already did. Idealism and materialism are not opposed.

How would you know there is a world outside of your mind if all you're relying on is empiricism?

So are you becoming a Islamic liberal? why are you abandoning socialism just because some of the ideas are judeo-christian. don't Muslims see their faith as the next step of Christianity, why abandoned truths that even your religion believe in ?

Absolutely impossible to prove, none of the philosophy requires it. But I'll humor you, so what? It really doesn't matter if Christianity was required for Communism to be developed. Most here agree that Communism requires Capitalism as a base, yet only the mentally deficient would argue communism is Capitalist.
Yes they are, you can not at once believe there to be an objective world and also believe there to be a subjective world.
Prove idealism, then I will stop living in a materialist world. The rejection of materialism is ridiculous. Idealists live as materialist, right up until it comes time to argue. No one subjectively defies gravity, no one can make the sun pink with a jedi mind trick, only materialist ways of effecting the world work.
To argue about empiricism though, empiricism proves there is an outside, objective world as you can routinely test your surroundings for their consistencies. The world works objectively, nothing stops working when you view it as broken. No idealist has ever proclaimed something to be another thing, for it to suddenly shift before there eyes into it.

What the leftist faggots that post here aren't going to tell you is that what you call Judeo-Christian thought is in fact western thought, and is part of why the west built the world while sandniggers like you were busy fucking goats.

While Sunni and Shiites are busy allahu ackbaring at eachother over who is the rightful successor of Muhammad (piss upon his grave) the parasitic denizens of this joke of a board are too busy reading shit that reinforces their own beliefs to tell you that the one thing they can all agree on is that there is no single person or elite class fit to rule by birthright.

I don't know if this is going to push you closer to islam or leftism, but if you told your imam about your cool new political ideas the only push you'd get is off a cliff.

Anal Water needs to stop strawmanning materialism. What he said at 6 minutes doesn't even make sense.

This is bait

In order to *be* a communist, you must start with a concept of communism, right? B"H you're an idealist.

Have you considered that Communism goes against Islam because Islam is a disgusting backwards religion meant to enslave it's followers? At least Christianity and Judaism reformed some of the more disgusting parts of it out of it. If you actually want a good religion that won't lead to oppression either look into Gnosticism or Buddhism. Or just go full atheist.

Marxism as a philosophy/science/movement couldn't have originated in any other paradigm aside from Christianity.

Islam does not believe in universalism. Islam holds a linguistic hierarchy prioritizing Arabic (which is semi-fascistic to say the least). All of Islam's rituals are rooted in Arab tribal customs including pilgrimage to Makkah. Islam is also obsessed with the "authentic" - it sees Christianity and Judaism as "corruptions" of itself and fiercely holds to the idea that its doctrine must be protected from outside influence at any cost. Just imagine the most vulgar "orthodox Marxist" who thinks we should toss Lenin, Gramsci, Mao, Sankara, Althusser, and Cockshott and only rely on Marx and Engels' works alone, that's what Islam is theologically.

Christianity has no such thing; in fact, Christianity's biggest strength is that it openly adopts traditions from multiple sources and incorporates them into its theology without being any less Christian (think Germanic Christmas traditions, or how Christianity is blended with indigenous religions throughout Latin America). The religion itself makes it no secret it's a blend of Jewish and Greco-Roman paganism and sees truth in both. A Christian therefore has no issue seeing truth in Marxism whereas a Muslim does, and every single attempt at synthesizing Marxism (not socialism, but MARXISM) with Islam has failed.

See, this is the issue I take with all you little grad student shits who think denouncing everything as "eurocentric" is enough to make a case against it. The real reason why the West is best isn't because the West has the bigger guns or the best technology, but because the West has for better or worse embraced ideals of progress and the notion that the future CAN, in fact, be better than the past. Westerners can live with knowing they've dun goofed whereas easterners (including Muslims) cannot. So yeah, fuck Islam.

Take the marbles out of your mouth when you speak.

1:12:00 This is wrong and A.W. is a massive charlatan. DiaMat can and does explain primitive religions. You don't have a concept of religion without first having material necessities.

So how exactly do these concepts emerge? You're talking about a pretty big gap here.




That's what I'd expect from a self-admitted incel.



In the Arabic language women are treated like inanimate objects which is lower than animals.
AKA kid rape

The Qur'an is full of superstitious miracles.

Islamic law is superstitious in practice. For example it's illegal to touch hands with a woman who is menstruating, but since a man can never know when a woman is menstruating it's illegal to ever touch hands with her.

To be fair it's the same in Judaism and early Christianity.

Holy fuck you may be the dumbest man on all of earth, or perhaps an above average shit poster. Materialists don't reject the concept of ideas you wanker.

This is abysmally boring tbh

Why the fuck is this anchored? So we can have a Christian socialism thread but we can't have a Muslim socialism thread? There are plenty of interesting posts here about the connection of socialism with religion.

Consider it coffeehouse intellectual ASMR.

Why is the idea of god being human "pure idolatry" and a "toxic notion"?

Maybe it could work like that but you should speak more, I don't care for the other guys.

Man is not Gd and no man can ever become Gd. By worshiping a man you are detached from the actual essence of Creation. Man did not create the universe, Gd did.

I really hate the sound of my voice. I've been told I sound "mannish" or that I have "marbles in my mouth".

1. Christianity says that God became man ("the Word was God… The Word became flesh and dwelt among us"), not other way around. 2. Why can't man ever become God?

And why shouldn't we detach ourselves from the essence of Creation? Since it's a prison and an existence we didn't chose in the first place and the ultimate goal of religion is to transcend the material/created world.

I wouldn't mind hearing you talk all night

There's a difference between wanting to transcend the material world by reuniting with the Divine vs. wanting to transcend the material world via apotheosis, right hand path vs. left hand path. Chaya would probably argue the point of creation is the former and the later is pure evil.

Kinda difficult, seeing as Marxism is Judaism 4.0

Materialism is about observed reproducible outcomes.

Pretty much. Most communists are wedded to specific theories rather than larger goals of liberating humanity.

Most materialists rely on anecdotes which are proven false only by consensus. Anomalous statements, even if true, are usually dismissed if they illicit a "criticial mass" of skepticism. Facts are not about truth, but about consensus.

Science shows that the entire body holds memories.