Christian Socialism General /csg/

You don't know how to reconcile the vastness of the Vatican's influence throughout the 20th century in politics around the globe that helped spread disease, and its alleged money laundering through its banks from offshore accounts (particularly in Italy), and just in general the money spent on it

Less heinous than homosexuality and being transgendered? I mean, call me a liberal all you want, I don't care, I just don't get the idea that the Vatican is this holy place of Socialism just because the current Pope seems like a friendly grandfatherly socialist once upon a time.

Vatican City is still Vatican City, and carries with it all its financial history and bloat.

Hasn't the whole of religious thought been a development? Why stop now?

There aren't many pro-gay catholic lgbtq theologians - the ones I can think of are incredibly hard to understand. And I'm not intelligent enough to intellectually oppose official church teachings because I "feel" like it's wrong.

I don't think the Vatican or the Catholic Church is a "holy place of socialism" at all, or endorsed it, whatever. I most definitely never said that. Catholic social teaching can give us a useful place to start critiquing society and capitalism, but the church itself is self-evidently very conservative (in the traditional sense).

JC would like the gays and trans even if it was a sin. I don't understand the verse that justifies it being a sin, if feels like it was retroactively put there.

It*

Yeah, it's all out war on contraception lead to very religious post-colonized Catholic nations throughout the world in the mid 20th century lead to diseases spreading faster than they would have without making that decision.

Countries interpreted this as an outright ban on contraception entirely. This made absolutely nothing better, and the ramifications of this decision can be felt today, and will be felt in the future. That and it's "Deceleration of War against Communism" was more Red Scare bullshit the Vatican should have been politically neutral on. I mean, it has its own bloody bank, and long standing rumors there's a ton of financial elite corruption in it. All in all, I can admire if you're a catholic that's fine. To me it's just the Vatican where I draw the line and say nope.

give name, son

theologians are fucking meme worthy, the book was built out of social organization not infalliable word. every moment someone regards the book as THE word of god and not some mish mash of thought ruins every bit of human development. why theologians and not sociology/psychology? of course I have little issue with the book, just the products that seek justify it/interpretations as THE word, and not human word. Why a Christian God and a holy book but not constant unfixed development under the eyes of a diety, using said development as our so called "love" of said diety?
Promise I'm not a fedora, and I have no problem with Christians that aspire to the "good" teachings, but how can you justify such a stifling on thought over words in a book; when constantly it is revised and developed on in the first place?

Some of them aren't explicitly about same sex attraction. I don't know how seriously I take this, but one of my teachers once said that the verses are mistranslated, where the Bible really condemns sex with "male prostitues" and not people in committed relationships. But I don't know if that's actually true - it doesn't seem to be. And either way, the church condemns it.

In Sodom, supposedly the sin was of not being neighborly (the threat of gang rape and all that to strangers in the town) and not because they wanted to have sex with men.

Seems most users are from apostolic churches, but my upbringing in Methodism has certainly played a major role in my continued movement Left through my life.

Tina Beattie is the one that comes to mind. She has an edited volume of other theologians talking about the same issues, called Catholic Women Speak. Maybe Hans Kung also. I'm not sure.

I'm not familiar with any of their work. I just have read others write that they had positive things to say about homosexuality, transgenders, etc.

Tina Beattie is really hard to read in particular because she uses Lacanian psychoanalysis.

thanks ma dude

>>>/christianleft/

Dead board. It never really had a start to begin with…. zero prayer requests… posts with zero responses…

Reminder

socialism.com/drupal-6.8/articles/pope-francis-catholic-church-and-argentina’s-“dirty-war”

yeah, i remember reading this article. It didn't just happen in argentina but in brazil and central america during their fascist too. fucking horrible

I can dream, dammit

Are Jesuits /ourguys/?

Yes

god not real tho

From memory there is a bunch of discussion about the word which Paul uses which is nowadays often translated as homosexuality. I think that it is actually a composite word that he in a sense invented, and the way it’s been translated has changed over time. But of course in apostolic churches the church interprets the word.

As for the sin of sodom. It is extrapolated upon multiple times throughout the bible, and most of the time the sin is a failure of hospitality, welcoming the stranger etc. the only time sexual immorality is mentioned in relation to the sin of Sodom is in an epistle.

Sorry for not including biblical references, if you want I can go looking but I’m typing this on the fly.

In Australia there is the group Australian Catholics for equality. And there are countless other Christian groups that are support and thinking about the relationship between the church and lgbtqi people.

I have gone to a service by the rainbow Christian alliance which is cross denominational. So I’m sure there are groups in your area if you’re interested.

We should start using this board and maybe direct possible Holla Forumsyp converts towards here?

Read Plantinga

Christian socialism is not real socialism

I'm not a sectarian

READ MATTHEW.

I would appreciate more references. I'm vaguely aware of some translation problems, but not very.

I like how there are rules in Catholicism. I wouldn't go to church or anything, but I appreciate the rules laid out.

Being in the Bible Belt the only things I see are evangelical retardation and gullibility. It's depressing.

I like this idea but it might backfire. You see how Holla Forumsacks act when they find this place, I'd doubt they'd keep it civil

Oh come on, trannies are disgusting and unnatural. What they've got is a mental illness and you don't treat people with mental illness by enabling them.

For the sodom analysis here are some bible quotes

"Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah - Jeremiah 23:14

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. "Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me Therefore I removed them when I saw it. - Ezekiel 16:49

“and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly; “and delivered righteous Lot, sore distressed by the lascivious life of the wicked (for that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their lawless deeds):”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:6-9

“Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭

Flag I made.

“Come now, ye rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and your silver are rusted; and their rust shall be for a testimony against you, and shall eat your flesh as fire. Ye have laid up your treasure in the last days. Behold, the hire of the laborers who mowed your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth out: and the cries of them that reaped have entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. Ye have lived delicately on the earth, and taken your pleasure; ye have nourished your hearts in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned, ye have killed the righteous one; he doth not resist you. Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it, until it receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5:1-8‬ ‭ASV‬‬

Considering orthodox Christianity tbh

Their book is just everything written by a whole bunch of people put into a blender and compiled in an array of orders that people will fight to the death over. Christianity can mean literally anything.

I was taught it had more to do with pagan rituals involving male on male sex of local tribes. The christian objection was not against a man loving another man but was an objection to sex being used as a currency for spiritual enlightenment.

Become a Christian universalist

>Implying the church isn't going through historical stages and the Communist declaration isn't rendered mute by the 1983 code of canon law replacing the 1917 code of canon law

How do you reconcile the fact that you support the private consolidation of the means of the absolution of sin, /csg/? Martin Luther was clearly the instigator of the dialectical change towards the laity themselves having their own connection to God. How can you be a good Marxist without being a good Protestant, /csg/?

That was actually a really bad thing though. Luther would probably be an atheist today.

Protestant work ethic was almost entirely a product of Calvinism though, which is another story entirely.

Of course, that's even if you accept the notion that protestant work ethic was critical to the foundation of capitalism, and even if it was, capitalism itself is a dialectical movement away from feudalism, an objectively inferior system to.

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"Protestant ethic = capitalism" seems fishy to me - some of the nicest social democrat countries (the nordic ones) are absolutely Lutheran, and there seems to be somewhat of a connection between the ethics of those two.
I mean, those countries are still capitalist, but you know…
Dunno about other forms of protestantism, tho.

I should read this book, as a Nordic Lutheran socialist.

google.com/amp/s/www.christianpost.com/amp/5-reasons-socialism-is-not-christian-opinion-166199/

Thoughts?

fam, why do i care about what a burger, conservative literally who liberal writes?

Only the first 'reason' has any semblance of accuracy to it. Communism, or any radical movement, is incompatible with a religious doctrine which claims that there exists an afterlife in which you are rewarded for contentedness with the measly conditions to which class society reduces the material world.

Memba when he said to slay the peasants as mad dogs? I memba.

not even a christian but…

what?

Christianity doctrine is profoundly reactionary where it preaches to the poor that they should be meek and not resist their oppressors. That kings, nobles and clergy are all placed by god above them and permitted to screw them and that they must not resist this. This is justified by the promise of heaven where the servile peasant goes for their just reward having kept their place in the divine order. Since we are all equal before god in heaven and new jerusalem is coming we do not have to fight for a better world here (since the material world is intrinsically corrupted by mortal sin). This is one reason why many peasant revolts were motivated in part at least by a profound belief that the apocalypse was coming.

Doctrines which direct us towards building a better world here on earth and improving our condition are far more revolutionary.

That is literal heresy. Try actually studying a religion before you try to bash it.

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Reminder that catholicism is heretical :^)

Were the diggers our guys?

All of you saying that you needn't to reconcile homosexuality with god are dum dums, god Is infinitely forgiving, no sin is to big to be repented for in name and number.
All you have to offer god is your sins.

Some guy made a christian communist manifesto, it's kinda good.

"Before the sin, Satan assures us that it is of no consequence; after the sin, he persuades us that it is in forgivable"

get that shit outta here

Saved for later

Quote for ☭TANKIE☭s.

Would you have consensual marital sex with Florian Geyer or Thomas Müntzer?

Müntzer

Are there any international or european christian communist orginizations?

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Nordic countries are capitalist

Isn't god infinitely forgiving by the book.

Someone has already pointed out that what your presenting as orthodox chrisitan belief is actual heresy and one of the earliest ones to boot.

But it's such a weird comment to make because you even contradict yourself: "Christians are taught they must not resist oppression" but also "peasants revolted because of their profound belief [in biblical eschatology]". You see it right? That you claim any Christians revolted because of their Christian beliefs should be proof enough that most of your comment was nonsensical, even ignoring the blatant heresy.

Precisely. Sorry, I meant to say "unforgivable." Basically all sin is forgivable through God and to say otherwise is a no no.