/nork/ -- North Korea General

Thread for discussions of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Can I have any infographs or such disproving common western myths about North Korea?
Is there any chance that their weapons aren't for self-defense? What is Kim's end-game?

Other urls found in this thread:

docs.google.com/document/d/1we5OEdteZFfAh11v0s_RVh3LWAkVICGrFnvksVynGxw/edit
vngiapaganda.wordpress.com/pro-dprk-propaganda/
kcnawatch.co/
korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=work
korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=periodic
korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=book
korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=album
wired.com/2016/02/kai-caemmerer-unborn-cities/
youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon's_Rebellion
edition.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/president-donald-trump-north-korea-terrorism/index.html
youtube.com/channel/UCzvCf_q10UZkUJE0lOav0ag
38north.org/2017/11/bksilberstein111417/
bbc.com/news/world-asia-24105977
archive.is/HbuXi
38north.org/2017/10/bjacobs102017/
theconversation.com/behind-north-koreas-surprising-compliance-on-climate-change-26013
upi.com/North-Korea-moving-flood-victims-into-new-homes/2691479344309/
exploredprk.com/photos/northern-areas-of-korea-turning-misfortune-into-a-blessing/
docdroid.net/9oceFLp/ellen-brun-jacques-hersch-socialist-korea-a-case-study-in-the-strategy-of-economic-development-monthly-review-press-1976.pdf
mining.com/largest-known-rare-earth-deposit-discovered-in-north-korea-86139/
blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2013/08/30/kim-jong-un-tipped-to-win-in-latest-north-korea-poll/
theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/05/kim-jong-un-south-korea-quadruples-reward-north-korea-classified-information
edition.cnn.com/2015/01/18/asia/north-korea-defector-changes-story/index.html
theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/why-do-north-korean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart
bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12304763
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking
newamericamedia.org/2010/05/did-an-american-mine-sink-the-south-korean-ship.php
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/19/korean-conflict-time-nuanced-view
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident
northkoreaintheworld.org
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638213/Tourist-took-camera-inside-North-Korea-expected-really-really-sad-people-shocked-seemingly-ordinary-lives-citizens.html
exploredprk.com/photos/at-the-kusong-food-factory/
exploredprk.com/articles/unha-taesong-foodstuff-factory/
wilsoncenter.org/publication/north-korea-and-the-cuban-missile-crisis
redyouth.org/2014/08/01/dprk-propaganda-war-a-cavalcade-of-comedy/
anti-imperialism.org/2014/08/14/western-dprk-propaganda-the-worst-occasionally-hilarious-and-often-racist-lies/
newfocusintl.com/exclusive-private-ownership-land-now-legal-north-korea/
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/
edition.cnn.com/2015/09/23/asia/north-south-korea-defector-family/index.html
english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_northkorea/799215.html
archive.is/Z2muN
bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12304763)
leftistcritic.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/elections-in-the-socialist-motherland-democracy-in-the-dprk/
un.org/sc/suborg/en/sanctions/1718
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_North_Korea
youtube.com/watch?v=UeHuN5Cy8mk
news.vice.com/story/north-koreas-bitcoin-crash-course-has-experts-worried
youtube.com/watch?v=H1o4B9SWrX4
reuters.com/article/northkorea-cybersecurity/update-4-north-korea-blames-u-s-for-internet-outages-calls-obama-monkey-idUSL3N0UB04K20141227
espressostalinist.com/2013/05/29/white-power-and-apocalyptic-cults-pro-dprk-americans-revealed/
mobile.twitter.com/blake_brunner/status/933694797079912448
buzzfeed.com/monicamark/the-dream-of-north-korea-is-alive-in-west-africa?utm_term=.liOqaWAMkO#.gtj4vxjm8X
kcnawatch.co/newstream/1511929848-163930118/ethiopian-juche-idea-study-group-formed/
theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/north-korea-food-aid-fund
exploredprk.com/articles/ryuwon-footwear-factory​/
youtube.com/watch?v=EusVVyx5gB8
youtube.com/watch?v=XClaO9NYGog
youtu.be/WOzY3U9xIoM
bbc.com/news/business-40679333
kcnawatch.co/newstream/1512315026-967820530/intl-day-of-persons-with-disabilities-marked-in-dprk/
espressostalinist.com
twitter.com/DEFCON_News/status/937506972697587713
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sung-Yoon_Lee
webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-yn89xVI2CQJ:www.kcna.co.jp/item/2014/201405/news02/20140502-22ee.html &cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b
youtube.com/watch?v=xBXZ-8aQj3w
youtube.com/watch?v=8Kh58uLFPTM
youtube.com/watch?v=LoX8OrgaDfY
exploredprk.com/press/kim-jong-un-inspects-newly-built-samjiyon-potato-farina-production-factory/
38north.org/2017/12/sonbong120517/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_North_Korea#Denuclearization_pledges
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese_citizens
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_South_Koreans
jucheireland.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/the-importance-of-international-solidarity-dprks-support-for-hezbollah/
nknews.org/2017/10/the-story-of-a-north-korea-backed-rebellion-in-1971-sri-lanka/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meeting_of_Communist_and_Workers'_Parties#18th_International_Meeting,_2016
cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2228rank.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Republic_of_Korea
solidnet.org/18-imcwp-contributions
solidnet.org/19th-imcwp/19-imcwp-contributions
web.archive.org/web/20120821203004/http://www.iom-seasia.org/immigrating-north-korea/
quora.com/How-can-I-immigrate-to-North-Korea
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Robinson_(engineer)
express.co.uk/news/world/890695/north-korea-dennis-rodman-kim-jong-un-donald-trump-us-china-world-war-3-piers-morgan
reuters.com/article/us-korea-north-syria/north-korea-denies-aiding-syria-in-fight-against-rebels-idUSBRE9AE01J20131115
38north.org/2017/12/punggye121117/?utm_source=38 North Bulletin 121117
youtube.com/watch?v=jIyU_SnLvvc
youtube.com/watch?v=ox7XWuCjp1Y
youtube.com/watch?v=_Ge2TQfqwX4
espressostalinist.com/marxism-leninism-versus-revisionism/korean-revisionism/
youtube.com/watch?v=muWzTVBXFYQ
cnn.com/2017/12/12/politics/tillerson-north-korea-no-preconditions-talks/index.html
globalnews.ca/news/3914891/white-house-not-right-time-for-talks-with-north-korea-rex-tillerson-direct-dialogue/
youtu.be/9siALpqSSKw
youtube.com/watch?v=UXxvEPqhVVw
youtube.com/watch?v=GmajuyY4EVI
rt.com/news/413204-trump-korea-naval-blockade/
archive.fo/4kbQP
twitter.com/JBWolfsthal/status/941387260506923008
archive.is/BYG5X
archive.is/ukSnW
web.archive.org/web/20171215085848/https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2265496.html
presstv.com/Detail/2017/12/14/545628/Asia-Pacific-Korea-UN-Human-Rights
metropolismag.com/ideas/arts-culture/the-future-of-architecture-according-to-a-north-korean-architect/
lalkar.org/article/2776/the-present-situation-in-the-dprk
english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/823370.html
politico.com/story/2017/09/08/why-north-korea-is-a-black-hole-for-spies-242473
nytimes.com/2017/04/30/world/asia/north-korea-economy-marketplace.html
hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/north-korea
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index
archive.is/pRkxK
twitter.com/ajitbirsingh/status/940940421366276096
reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-change-insight/north-koreas-black-market-becoming-the-new-normal-idUSKCN0SN00320151029
hrw.org/news/2017/12/13/china-minority-region-collects-dna-millions
dprktoday.com/index.php?type=48&no=8791
bbc.com/news/world-asia-42459670?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central
youtube.com/watch?v=dXTRANvdouQ
archive.fo/pRkxK
k-p-d-online.de
38north.org/2017/12/pward122117/#_ftnref2
theduran.com/truth-north-korea-booming/
iacenter.org/korea/skorea070608/
medium.com/@wolf.aldrich/the-50-s-in-south-korea-what-happened-60f629ac3272
youtube.com/watch?v=L52aa6_uQ5g
youtube.com/watch?v=0QpkSpTCyDc
web.archive.org/web/20150425054931/http://kcna.co.jp/item/2006/200604/news04/28.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=wabh-YAnDBw
naenara.com.kp/en/politics/?leader1 3
gowans.wordpress.com/2007/03/03/understanding-north-korea/
businessinsider.com/tillerson-mattis-trump-north-korea-strike-2018-1
libertyhangout.org/2017/07/stop-calling-north-korea-a-monarchy-it-has-never-been-one/
youtube.com/watch?v=xGIndKDBjyg
handicap-international.us/north_korea
webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NjN2ohtwOBAJ:https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/news-release/2009-and-earlier/north-korea-news-240406.htm
nytimes.com/2018/01/14/us/politics/military-exercises-north-korea-pentagon.html
exploredprk.com/news/new-model-mobile-phone-jindalle/
theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/22/north-korean-defectors-daring-escape-caught-on-video
mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/poverty-stricken-north-koreans-ride-9761881
blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/how-north-korea-fuels-its-military-trucks-with-trees/
rfa.org/english/news/korea/charcoal-powered-vehicles-make-a-comeback-in-north-korea-12092016160533.html
exploredprk.com/articles/changsong-today/
youtube.com/watch?v=YWMhrGf2ylw
archive.fo/4E6mS
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_North_Korean_citizens
youtube.com/watch?v=SPjKs8NuY4s
archive.fo/DWDDk
youtube.com/watch?v=7PF5dS89iG4
reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-southkorea-defection/escape-from-north-korea-video-shows-defector-under-fire-idUSKBN1DM07E
youtube.com/channel/UCndGz3c8ImJ216C4kZMxaWA/videos
youtu.be/7PF5dS89iG4?t=492
rt.com/news/416572-north-korea-executed-kim-return/
sbs.com.au/news/north-korean-defector-confesses-to-murder-report
youtube.com/watch?v=IbfjU2jEGTc
archive.is/R6boT
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/index.htm
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=tR5hjJzyN1Y
mintpressnews.com/north-korea-neither-trump-nor-western-media-wants-world-see/233355/
21stcenturywire.com/2018/02/05/western-left-fiddles-world-burns/
kcnawatch.co/newstream/1518091229-974873037/paektusan-prize-games-of-civil-servants-at-its-height/
mobile.twitter.com/BBCMonitoring/status/961997950091218949
youtube.com/watch?v=1qPf-zZ4eKQ
country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-9557.html
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
youtube.com/watch?v=ADN0H6MREHA
reddit.com/r/ActLikeYouBelong/comments/7x9a2m/north_korean_cheerleaders/
youtube.com/watch?v=F-j0GJhe0lg
youtube.com/watch?v=8s6RKY9Emng
youtube.com/watch?v=g1K1SrArvg8
archive.is/gnwIo
youtube.com/watch?v=QDJlNQlRbIA
youtube.com/watch?v=3kcbHxlNZJ8&feature=youtu.be&t=1m17s
exploredprk.com/press/kim-jong-un-meets-members-of-delegation-of-special-envoy-of-s-korean-president/
worldslastchance.com/ecourses/lessons/changing-weeks-hiding-sabbath-ecourse/18/20th-century-soviet-calendar-reform.html
youtube.com/watch?v=RYLEU88fQ7Q
youtube.com/watch?v=BhluZWUTY7A
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea
youtube.com/watch?v=NYBHjkxtAt4
pyongyanginternationalfilmfestival.com
exploredprk.com/news/national-meeting-of-activists-of-rural-youth-workteams-and-sub-workteams-held/
newsweek.com/north-korean-defector-says-kim-jong-uns-regime-women-do-not-know-rape-crime-842751
washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-korean-women-have-plenty-of-reason-to-say-me-too--but-no-hope-of-a-reckoning/2018/03/07/f934f392-221c-11e8-a589-763893265565_story.html
bbc.com/news/stories-41778470
youtube.com/watch?v=_wE8aaBLVpg
cnn.com/2018/03/15/asia/north-korea-nuclear-reactors-activity/index.html
cnn.com/2018/03/15/politics/trump-us-troops-south-korea/index.html
youtube.com/watch?v=b4OsXWPGXZs
archive.fo/https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2265496.html
exploredprk.com/articles/tax-free-korean-people/
twitter.com/blake_brunner
businessinsider.com/mysterious-north-korea-train-kim-jong-un-china-rumors-2018-3
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_death_of_Otto_Warmbier#Death_and_public_reactions
magazine.atavist.com/holiday-at-the-dictators-guesthouse
myjewishlearning.com/article/autopsies-and-jewish-law/
washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/06/15/otto-warmbiers-north-korea-roommate-speaks-out/?utm_term=.df3a15ed7823
magazine.uchicago.edu/0312/features/index.shtml
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_nationals_detained_in_North_Korea#List_of_detained_US_citizens
nytimes.com/2017/04/25/world/asia/imprisoned-in-north-korea-the-cases-of-3-americans.html
archive.fo/OKKCX
cnbc.com/2018/03/27/north-koreas-kim-jong-un-visits-china-according-to-state-media.html
carnegie.ru/commentary/59170
carnegie.ru/2016/02/03/resurgence-of-market-economy-in-north-korea-pub-62647
theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/07/north-korea-recipe-for-success-economic-liberalisation-public-executions
nytimes.com/2015/01/22/opinion/north-korea-dabbles-in-reform.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Watch Team America: World Police

I would do it if I had the time. Take this massive list though:
docs.google.com/document/d/1we5OEdteZFfAh11v0s_RVh3LWAkVICGrFnvksVynGxw/edit
Accumulated pro-DPRK propaganda:
vngiapaganda.wordpress.com/pro-dprk-propaganda/
They've never attacked anybody.

Also reminder that the DPRK provides a thousend times better life for its people than a country with a similar GDP, which would be fucking Rwanda.

This is the North Korean media aggregator:

kcnawatch.co/

There are a ton of free books, magazines, etc.. from North Korea divided in Works/Periodicals/Books/Picture Albums/Others here:

korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=work
(works by Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un)

korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=periodic
(magazines and shit)

korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=book
(books in general)

korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=album
(pictures)

does Holla Forums support North Korea? Or is this a case of ☭TANKIE☭s being ☭TANKIE☭?

...

I definitely don't "support" the DPRK in the ML sense of believing its actually pretty good, but I certainly don't see them as some force for global terror.

what do you mean?

How are they fabricated? Do you believe that this store, the amusement park, the aquarium and the children's hospital don't exist? Last time I checked Google Maps the Musuem of Natural History in the DPRK was actually on the map.

The buildings do exist but the people are only allowed to make use of them in special occasions for pictures and propaganda purposes only.

Holla Forums is 20% Marxist-Leninist, of which probably only one half supports the DPRK. So not really, most would disagree that they are evil or something though, there is a small minority that openly advocated for war against them but thankfully those people are starting to go to /leftpol/.

I visted the Science Center and it there were people actually. The only building that's "fake" is the Ryugyong Hotel for the sole reason that having such a big hotel makes no sense when you don't have visitors.

Why would they build a building and then don't use it? Sharing some images from the lesser developed parts of the country as a contrast.

To give something to do to their masons and engineers and for propaganda.

Your post, either jokingly made, or being serious reflects the observation, that the political human rights have been overblown and artificially introduced to people through mass media. Just as arbitrary as the concept of whiteness.

There are also socio-economic human rights, also called the positive rights, and unless those are guaranteed, then majority of people cannot enjoy the political rights.

In fact the strict adherence to the political and civic rights coupled with complete disregard for the socio-economic rights serves to deny the majority of people the political rights themselves.

TL;DR: This is your brain on liberalism.

Considering it is isolated from most of the world and has a hostile neighbor, I'd say North Korea is doing well for itself. It's no paradise but it seems better than Detroit or New Orleans

...

Everybody knows that the DPRK has reached Star Trek levels of communism yet and merely gives people work so they aren't lazy. Do you believe the shit you say?

wired.com/2016/02/kai-caemmerer-unborn-cities/
youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E

I know it's China not the DPRK but just to show you that the concept of building stuff just for the sake of building isn't anything new.

Tbh Khruschjov and Mao's coup in '56 should have gone through. Would have made NK an Asian Cuba.

China has a capitalist economy, that's why there is need to constantly expand to steer against the falling rate of profit and conquer new markets, individual firms don't care about the use value of a building. In my city investors can usually afford to let apartment buildings to be empty for years (yet the homeless population growths) because it's profitable to do so. In the DPRK the creating of surplus is targeted towards consumption and development, collectively. Surely sometimes miscalculations are made, but to assume that buildings are build for the sole reason of employment is wrong.


The DPRK went further than Cuba by implementing workplace democracy and all that. The reason people like Cuba but dislike the DPRK is because of cultural reasons. Cubans are chill while Korea is a highly formalistic society.

There is a difference between being of european ethnicity and being a white american.

Because while in europe, the clusters apply, in america you have genetic gerrymandering due to urban gentrification and urban decay.

And the whiteness that I refer to is the one that was invented after Bacon's Rebellion en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon's_Rebellion
to prevent the poor europeans from fraternizing with poor africans and ever showing class solidarity one for another.

So you know damn well about what kind of whiteness I am referring to. I said pretty clearly concept of whiteness. Not colour of skin due to some phenotype. There is a difference. But if you keep on eating from the trash can of idealistic philosophy, you will never understand these distinctions and descriptions.

Were you the one who went on a tour of NK? What was it like?

Even as an M-L, I do not consider them socialist because "socialism" to me implies you're on the track to communism. I cannot consider DPRK socialist when they denounced communism and removed all mentions of it from their constitution. That said, they have a strong, centrally planned economy and have had enormous success with it considering their circumstances, so I support them in that sense.

but i though everyone there was starving and all the human rights violations?

It was great, they are really friendly people, although it's clear you need to build up trust, especially with the guide. If the guide trusts you, you have more freedom of movement. He told me that a lot of tourists misbehave or completely misrepresent the country afterwards, talking about a "trip to hell" and such. Some guy continued to push the camera into some soldiers face and the guide asks him as to why he would do this, or whom he intends to show this - I would assume that the guy later went on a huge rant how they were censoring him or some shit. What I was surprised about was how interested the people are in the outside world. I told the guide how there are protests against US bases in my country as well, and he was really surprised about that, and later, I was able to speak to a barkeeper and he was extremly interested about music in the West. Don't get me wrong, it's not like they envy the West, they are very proud, but they know the situation in which they are in, that they are basically like another planet. The food was sometimes delicious, sometimes really weird, especially the traditional stuff. Wasn't sure what animal I was eating there one time. A Chinese guy said it was dog, and I wasn't sure if he was joking or not.

Other than that, I don't know. The tour was very professional, so there aren't many anecdotes - no delays, everything smooth. You have any particular questions? That was just me ranting a bit. Oh, the last thing that comes to mind was that the trains of the Pyongyang Metro were given to them by the GDR, so if you look out for it, you can find graffiti or scribblings of East German punks on the train cars. Quite surreal.

Wow that's pretty interesting, especially the part about the East German graffiti. How exactly did you plan this trip? Is it a tough process, and is it expensive? How much were you able to see and how restricted was your movement?

I went with Koryo tours from Bejing by plane (return is by train though). You can book an extra package where you return by plane if you somehow can't take a really long train ride. Me and my friend who studied in Taiwan made a one month trip through China so we were already there, I'm not sure if I would have done it if i wasn't in Asia already. I would totally do if it was for political reasons, my party actual entertains good relations with WPK and has sent people there. By the way, sounds pretty horrible because it's actual commodification, but you can buy the North Korean edition of the Communist Manifesto and Juche shirts and such in merchandise stores at the Hotel. It's a gimmick so I don't blame them. Sometimes I thought I even discovered a bit of very subtle, ironic humor but maybe that was just my impression.
Your country is going to give your more trouble than the DPRK, that's for sure. Be prepared to get questioned by the police at the airport once you get home. Also, throw your passport away afterwards and get a new one because no other western country will let you in with a DPRK stamp. The process in China is actually quite smooth, smoother than I expected. You book the trip and they already contact the embassy for you, you don't need to do anything.
It's a bit hefty. Four days are arround 1300$, seven days can cost arround 2000$, but it's all-inclusive.
I've seen the main sights in Pyongyang, the DMZ to the South, Sariwon (where you can see a typical North Korean farming cooperative and how the workplace democracy works), Kaesong and Pyongsong. and the Myohyangsan mountain. You can't really do much more within seven days. It's quite a packed tour.

You can't exit the hotel. It's a guided tour, so you have to follow your guide, but inside buildings you can walk arround freely. In the Children's Palace for example you can walk arround and check everything out. On two occasions you have two hours to walk arround in Pyongyang, if you made a trustworthy impression. Oh, and don't mention that when you get questioned by the police when you come back - they assume you are in cahoots with the regime or something when you tell them that they've let you walk arround for an hour. It's ridiculous.

I would really like to go there sometime, too bad I'm to poor for that to happen probably. And also I imagine as a burger it would probably be tough to do.

Fucckkkk I wanna go there now

afaik Trump banned travelling to North Korea all together.

ah. well there goes that. I guess he did just name them terrorists or whatever today.

If the Americans took over NK it'd just lead to a bigger war down the line with China and Russia. In the 30's the Japs used Korea as an entry point for the invasion of Manchuria (which was part of their bigger scheme of taking over China). If America had the whole Korean peninsular, it would grant them access to a land invasion of China if they ever went to war with them.

What are some of the negatives of NK that you know no one there was going to talk about? How do you think an American would be treated, especially in light of that one guy they imprisoned for stealing a sign? Do you think the tour was political (as in, look how nice NK really is, truly a worker's paradise) or primarily economic like other country's tours? How do you consider NK in relation to the Communist Movement?

He said the exact same thing today:
edition.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/president-donald-trump-north-korea-terrorism/index.html
I wonder why he thinks they sponsor terrorism. The NPA in the Phillippines? That one thing they did South Korea? The USA is biggest sponsor of terrorism on the globe.

What party?

I don't see a problem here.

because to burgers norks are the embodiment of evil and they imprison all of there people and hate everyone and would like to destroy the human race.

Just like how Stalin was the embodiment of evil?
>>>/reddipol/

what are you trying to say

youtube.com/channel/UCzvCf_q10UZkUJE0lOav0ag

They're not evil.

did i say they were? learn to read my friend.

none of those were built for propaganda purposes you fucking retard

Probably the lack of diversity in diet in more rural areas. Nobody starves but they obviously don't have access to the world food market. They are willing to talk about the Arduous March in the 90s though and do say it was a really bad time. At the Sariwon cooperative they said that they managed it quite well there and had no starvation at the cooperative. In North Korea, bigger enterprises are also places where the workers live, get educated and have leisure activities. I guess the main negative is the lack of Internet. Other than that, it isn't backwards, they are starting to distribute smartphones now as well. As I mentioned in the other thread, lack of fuel is a problem, so they turn off electricity during the night, and on the countryside you see lots of manual and bestial labor because agricultural machines use up shitloads of fuel. First picture is from a fishing village, I don't think it gets worse than that. But think about it, most villages in Asian countries look like this.
Absolutely fucking fine as long as you are comfortable arround anti-American propaganda. They do quite a bit of America hating but they don't project it onto the American people which they believe to be living under horrible consumerism who always go shopping, eat shitty food and watch dumb stuff on TV.
From what I've heard he pulled some offensive stuff before as well, not sure how this is accurate. The thing is, there is no crime in North Korea, so to get in trouble you must do something wrong. I didn't have the impression that they were overly strict, so I'm not sure about the whole Warmbier thing. For example, I already told the thing tjhe guy who kept filming that soldier quite in close-up, and it's actually forbidden to do that. They smiled it away. Another guy was taking off his shirt during a hike, which was considered rude, but they never forced him to take it back on they just pointed it out. So yeah, when you pull some serious shit, you probably get in huge trouble, but it's definitely not like they execute you for coughing.
Nah, tourists aren't interested in socialism. They wanna see the sights, the food, the history, etc. - they will brag about their socialist system here and there, mention some stuff but they don't go into detail about it. They talk a lot about their history though and the deeds of Kim Il-sung. It's not a political tour, and Korya Tours is explicitely apolitical. North Koreans want, first and foremost, look "normal" to foreigners and not like crazy people.
Well, the WKP is part of the IMCWP, they fund the NPA in the Phillippines and have supported some ultraleftists in Sri Lanka in the past. They support self-determination of countries under imperialism, have strong relations of Cuba which they help by fixing their weapons and delivering them ammunition for free. Other than that, well, there really isn't any communist movement to support right now, right? Some people say Juche is inherently isolationist. That's not really true. Juche means economic self-reliance, but they want self-reliance for all countries, not just for Korea, and would embrace economic cooperation as long as it is mutual and not overly dependent on one side.


KPD in Germany.

Tankies do, some ML's do. Most know obvious Juche propaganda when they see it.

No they didn't you fucking idiot, stop falling for memes. They've simply said that they won't be able to reach high-stage communism when they are subject to imperialist assault.

bump

Fam, that shit isn't being built for the sake of it, it's being built because China is urbanizing the fuck out of their country

This is correct, the main works on Juche by Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il mention the communist movement quite a bit, and define Juche as a development from Marxism-Leninism, not a departure from it but rather a specification. They also didn't "remove" Marxism from their constitution, since it was never in there. Reading Marx and Lenin is still part of their curriculum though.

There it NOT an impending food shortage in the DPRK, turned out to be pure speculation:
38north.org/2017/11/bksilberstein111417/
That doesn't mean that the sanctions aren't nothing but criminal, they do have horrible effects especially in terms of food diversity and imports of medicine.

Selling nukes to other Marxist-Leninist countries, because revolution by the barrel of a gun.

After getting into Wargame Red Dragon I've been looking up stuff about DRPK military, and damn are those guys lit
Nork commandos made a mess of Seoul in 1968, out of 31 only one guy came back, but they left more than 100 dead on their path

38north.org/2017/11/bksilberstein111417/
Can anyone help explain if North Korea is actually going porky with their food production? Because you always get people saying privatization works better than collectivization, so is this right, is Kim going free market or are the farms just like big co-ops?

What do you mean by going "porky"? 70% of produce has to be given to the state. The rest can be used to sustain yourself or to be sold on local markets. This is actually an improvement compared to the situation ten years ago, where most produce was sold on a black market due to problems in central planning resulting from the 90s famine. The system they have now is the exact same the USSR had with the Kolkhoz (cooperatives that have to fulfill a certain quota and then can use the rest).
There is not private ownership of farms, bigger farms are all cooperatives, smaller farms are one-man/one-family businesses.

No, thanks for clarifying. Its just the way the site I linked and so many other people paint it as if privatization means a bunch of landowners owning multiple farms, which is what I meant by porky. Thanks.

bbc.com/news/world-asia-24105977

South Korean soldiers killed a South Korean worker trying to escape to North Korea. The guy worked in Kaesong during the economic cooperation between the two countries and tried to go back there.

Then why did they remove Marx, Engels and Lenin's name (along with references to communism) from their constitution?

They didn't. It was never in there. They removed the mention of communism because they don't believe that communism is realistically possible under imperialism, if you read Kim Jong-il's writings on Juche he mentions the communist movement quite a bit.
Sounds pretty anti-revisionist to me.
Again, doesn't sound very anti-Marxist to me.
And further:
This is Juche, their offical state ideology. The constitution says they are a socialist state. I don't see the problem.

Not related to your post, but I wanna ask you this since you seem very knowledgeable on North Korean socialism. What differences are there (economically) between Stalin-era USSR (or Mao-era PRC) and modern DPRK, that would make some Maoists and ML's not consider it to be a socialist country (my local ML party for example)? They seem "more socialist" than Cuba, based on what tank posters on this board have said.

I'm not very knowledgable about the Mao-era in China. Depending on who you ask some might say that several Chinese villages went so far as to abolishing money. That would obviously be unmatched (but, so did Pol Pot).

As for the comparison to the non-revisionist USSR, I would start off by saying that there are some things the USSR could do that the DPRK simply can't in their current situation, which is mainly having access to resources, having plenty of potentially arable land and being a superpower (which releases some pressure from the society, as they could allow more civil liberties, less militarism, and so on). So when these areas are concerned, the DPRK is forced to make compromises whether they like it or not (such as cooperation with China, exporting coal and the such, which is production for exchange, although China recently banned coal trade with the DPRK as they continue to get cucked by Trump). It has to be said though that the goods produced in the Special Economic Zones never reach the internal population, and they are dormant now anyway.

Some things the DPRK may have done better in regards to socialism:

1.) Under Kim-il Sung, farm cooperatives were obliged to give 100% of produce to the state. This means that there was pracitcally zero commodity production anymore, whereas the Kolkhoz continued to operate indendently after they fulfilled the state quota. Obviously, this has been reduced now and the quota in the DPRK is now 70%. This is caused by the somewhat instable food security, and farmers selling 30% of their production locally has been proven to allocate food more efficiently. They are having the same system now as the USSR.

2.) Workplace democracy was established in the DPRK, whereas the USSR never moved past the one-man management, and worker democracy was exercised only via unions. See my thread about workplace democracy in North Korea here:
archive.is/HbuXi

3.) Field guidance, known as Ch'ongsan-ni Method. Leading politicans of the DPRK visit factories and farms all the time which I believe is a good thing as people have the opportunity to complain and managers can't run the place in whatever way they want to. Originally this was introduced to "to combat 'bureaucratism' and 'formalism'" and because local functionaries would just spout typical slogans but would fail to actually care about the workers. In the later USSR, whenever workers were unhappy, the trade union functionary would come in and spout dogmatic slogans like "but comrades, how can we strike against ourselves, you must look at this dialectically… etc.". This is supposed to prevent that.

4.) There is one day every month where the leading party officials are forced to work as a common worker or farmer, this prevents alienation of functionaries from the working population. I used to have a video of that but I can't seem to find it right now.

5.) They do care more about ecological sustainability than most ML states have. They strive for green energy, and are quite innovative in that regard.
38north.org/2017/10/bjacobs102017/
theconversation.com/behind-north-koreas-surprising-compliance-on-climate-change-26013

6.) They completely abolished taxes and rents. As far as I know, the only country ever gone this far was Hohxaist Albania (and I'm not sure if they ever had no rents). In general, the housing situation in the DPRK is quite good:
upi.com/North-Korea-moving-flood-victims-into-new-homes/2691479344309/
exploredprk.com/photos/northern-areas-of-korea-turning-misfortune-into-a-blessing/
Many other things in the DPRK resemble a gift economy, such as the distribution of smartphones (obviously such goods are scarce, but nonetheless).

7.) There is a Local People's Committee with actual power in the government, representing the interests of peripheral towns and villages, I'm not sure if the USSR ever had one of those. Their commitment to develop peripheral areas is quite visible, pic related is Changsong, which used to be a barren, underdeveloped mountanious village, now they have food production, extensive housing and soon a children's park, an amusement park and higher education facilities.

I'm a fan of Cuba, but present day, yes, they are. Cuba has become quite lukewarm regarding their convinction to develop socialism, although we will have to wait and see what Raúl really meant by de-centralizing the economy.

As for what could make them seem less socialist? Symbolic leader worship, somewhat being supportive of Neo-Confuzianism, nationalism. I leave it up to you how you deal with that, but let me say that none of this changes their socio-economic system or their commitment to socialism. These are mostly cultural aspects that have been developing with more intensity since the isolation began, and are inherently part of Korea culture (you will find similar oddities in South Korea, in a "capitalist" form). Other than that, the only thing that came up recently are rumors about rental workers in Eastern Europe and Russia who are apparently North Koreans. However the source about this is very vague, and it is unclear whether or not these are convicts.

Does your local ML party say as to why they think the DPRK isn't socialist? Are they MLM by any chance?

One last thing though: I didn't mean to say that they were openly propagating Neo-Confuzianism, they merely have such a party in the Supreme People's Assembly (Chondoist Chongu Party), and by nationalism I didn't mean to say that they were racist or entertain a caste system. Such claims are often made in regards to this, based on Myer's book "The Cleanest Race", which is quite a horrible piece of propaganda. I could go into detail about that.

How do you know all of this, and how do you know it's true? Are there any actual neutral observers and sources? Why is NK so isolationist and hated by everyone else when even Cuba isn't like that? Do you think all the defector stories about work camps, torture, and political repression are just lies?

A variety of sources, but let me approach it this way: There are several books of Western observers from the Kim Il-sung era that document all this, here is one:
docdroid.net/9oceFLp/ellen-brun-jacques-hersch-socialist-korea-a-case-study-in-the-strategy-of-economic-development-monthly-review-press-1976.pdf
At this time, North Korea was open for foreign observers, you could go where you wanted and report about what you wanted. Now, since 1991, when the more isolationist phase began, the officials have been reaffirming that the system still works like this, and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise. Think about it: Both in the revisionist USSR, as well as in Dengist China or even in Cuba in recent years the new leaders have made clear statements that suggest a massive break from the former Marxist-Leninist system, Deng revised the living fuck out of Marx, for example. We have no evidence of that for the DPRK, all their statements are contrary to a revisionist narrative. The observers that do still visit the country couldn't report anything similar either. I personally saw nothing of the sort. I saw a cooperative that had a functioning workplace democracy (muh Potemkin village).
Nobody is neutral when it comes to North Korea. As for data and facts, the guys from 38North do a decent job, despite being often clearly biased and quite anti-socialist in tone, but they don't do propaganda, their facts are correct. Many media outlets that are anti-DPRK but are not a platform with an agenda unlike the big newspapers like the NYT, etc. often confirm positive things about the DPRK (enviromental stuff, nobody is starving), despite being against it.

When it comes to sources, I think the discussion is quite dishonest, when I say something positive I need to hardprove it with dozens of Western sources, while you could make up the most ridiculous shit without any back up whatsoever. Seriously, try it. Make a South Korean blog and claim something like "NORTH KOREANS BELIEVE KIM JONG-UN CAN BE PREGNANT". Repost it on Facebook or something, add hashtags, and with some luck you will have Stephen Colbert joking about this within one week. When you look at my posts, I mostly use Western sources, I've used North Korean state media like 2-3 times max.
Cuba isn't a threat anymore after the fall of the USSR and has been showing intentions to compromise. Besides that, Cuba isn't hated? Wut? Trump just renewed the sanctions.

The DPRK is hated because it is in a strategical important position, and shares a border with Russia and China, if South Korea were to absorb the DPRK, the USA would be able to have troops at the Russian border AND at the Chinese border which they have been trying for decades now. Secondly, they have nukes and are an actual threat to a valuable ally of the West (South Korea). And thirdly, they are sitting on the largest rare earth mineral deposit on the planet:
mining.com/largest-known-rare-earth-deposit-discovered-in-north-korea-86139/
Plenty of reasons to hate the DPRK.
I'm in favor of listening to all the defectors. There are plenty of defectors who live in shitty conditions in South Korea and China, and are mostly favorable towards the North Korean government:
blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2013/08/30/kim-jong-un-tipped-to-win-in-latest-north-korea-poll/
That's actually a higher approval rating than Obama ever had, lmao. Many North Korean defectors have tried to get back to the country, some of them got killed by South Korean soldiers at the border. So yeah, we should listen to these people.

But what about the defectors you see on TV? The ones who look handsome, wear Abercrombie & Fitch, give TED Talks and have Instagram accounts? Those, who are fucking rewarded with tens of thousends of dollars to talk shit about North Korea?
theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/05/kim-jong-un-south-korea-quadruples-reward-north-korea-classified-information
I believe these handpicked media personalities are fake, yes. Totally. If you talk about work camps, the DPRK has penal labor, yes, but the claims about the notorious "Camp 14" have been proven to be made-up:
edition.cnn.com/2015/01/18/asia/north-korea-defector-changes-story/index.html
theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/why-do-north-korean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart
Why would you believe professional liars?

...

bump

What about the assertion that outside of a few key areas most of the country is 1950s China tier underdeveloped? What about the satellite photos showing essentially no urbanization? How serious is the problem of uneven development of rural vs urban areas?

I'd like you point to the area which is "1950s China tier". When you drive through the North Korean countryside you see a lot of manual and bestial labor, due to the lack of fuel. Do know how much fuel it takes for agricultural mechanization? It's not like they don't have the machinery, pic related. They don't have the energy. Although I did see 10-15 tractors working the fields in the North Korean countryside, actually. The same goes for electrification, some areas have yet to be connected to the gird, for the time being, they use solar panels. It's not like this is not a concern for them, the latest party congress pointed these problems out quite openly. But it's hard to modernize everything at the same time when you can't even import medicine or trade coal with China. But as I pointed out, there is development in rural areas, just not everything at the same time, that would be sorcery.
Both South and North Korea have the same population growth. A lack of urbanization would imply the opposite. What photos are you talking about, North Korea has plenty of cities. Are you talking about the photos with the lack of light during the night? Electricity is turned off during the night to save energy.
It's a problem, but you can't say that they are not aware of it. It's still better than most unequally developed areas in Asia: Even on the countryside there is no homelessness, full literacy and no abject poverty. I'd like to point out that there are areas on the countryside which are quite developed though, so there is no big discrepancy between urban and rural life only as a general rule. The average North Korean house on the countryside is not that different from rural houses in many other parts of East Asia.

New blood coming in

What about the cult of personality, hereditary monarchy and rejection of materialism? Dont know if wikipedia can be trusted on this, but it says some funny shit in the juche article, like the working class think through the supreme leader, implying they dont have to think for themselves.

Unlike China, the DPRK never had a cultural revolution that purged Confuzianism from the dominant ideology. Kim Il-sung has always tried to incorporate Korean culture into the socialist project: "We need pictures of Pyongyang to be associated with communism, not Moscow". The Korean people have started to build a cult of personality arround Kim Il-sung before the DPRK even existed, there are reports of busts and paintings that occurred during the anti-colonial struggle against Japan. Kim Il-sung's real name was Kim Sŏng-ju, and he adopted a Nom de guerre as he became quite a symbol for Korean liberation in the guerilla war. In his autobiography With the Century (which is an entertaining read by the way, even if you don't agree with it) he claims that he was uncomfortable with this at first. So it's not like the personality cult was enforced from above, it arose organically out of Korean society and culture; now, you don't have to like it, but in the end it's a cultural aspect and naturally arises from the siege situation the DPRK is in. In such situations, societies always construct rally points for the people to get behind.
Kim Jong-un is not almighty. If he would seriously go against the WPK party line or the Juche ideology he wouldn't be in power. Both Kim Jong-il and Kim Jong-un were elected and chosen because they seemed to be the most fit for continuing the revolution. It has to be noted that Kim Jong-il himself opposed succession:
bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12304763
In general, I'm in favor of judging people by their actions, and not by their bloodline, and Kim Jong-un has been an overwhelmingly positive experience for the Korean people so far, as living standards economic developments were rising rapidly the recent years. Food security, futuristic high-rise apartment buildings, water parks and smartphone are things which weren't remotely in reach for the North Koreans ten years ago.
They don't, see here
I've not read everything about Juche (it's a lot) but I've never came across something like this in the main works of Juche. Does the Wikipedia article has a footnote? It probably says something about the working class is represented through the leader, along those lines. They love florid expressions, they shouldn't be taken too literally.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking

This is far from a clear case:
newamericamedia.org/2010/05/did-an-american-mine-sink-the-south-korean-ship.php
It's easy to blame every accident on North Korea. South Korea has quite a history of naval accidents. Also, why would they refuse to have an open investigation with North Korea?
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/19/korean-conflict-time-nuanced-view

South Korea keeps on firing artillery into North Korean waters, wouldn't this also be an equivalent of an act of war? What about the absolute refusal to work with the DPRK in any way possible and shooting workers who want to go back to Kaesong? This whole idea that it's actually North Korea who wants conflict is frankly ridiculous.

bump

wtf i love kim now

I'm pretty critical of north korea but these liberal lies have to end. You're making non-MLs look bad.

Does the DPRK have any socialist programs? Healthcare, transportation, education, etc?

This incident they took responsibility for
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident

liberal please
and ofcourse NK has public transportation, healthcare and education, the fuck are you thinking
you think they have collectivized agriculture but leave healthcare to the market?

Absolutely based.

edgy

What you expect? The US occupy Korea and have committed atrocities against it worse than in Vietnam. To support attacks against occupying soldiers as a leftist isn't edgy, it's common sense.

Bumping as I’m always interested in DPRK threads.

non-Tankies need to focus on letting that failed state die and pump up the left in South Korea

What I've said before: Leftist opposition to the DPRK is not based on facts, it's about fitting into the established discourse since North Korea is indefensible in front on liberals because of the current ideological hegemony. Here is the thing, I don't particulary give a crap about what conservaties think of me.
How is it a failed state? Where are they failing?
As if lip service against the DPRK would change the policy of the South Korean government in regards to outlawing communist parties.

socdems, the left wing of imperialism

you mean apart from the fact you're endorsing a dynastic borderline feudal state that is essentially dependent on trade with China to even survive solely because it used to claim ideological fraternity? Not to mention a state that's been allowing small scale capitalism to help keep things afloat
you mean apart from nearly collapsing in the 90s? North Korea has only survived thanks to trade with China, if they were completely cut off the state would collapse within a year.
more like letting the shit hole collapse and finally making leftist parties electable in the South?

shit like that is why it's never taken seriously

A bunch of meaningless buzzwords with no substance. I'm not going to repeat what I've written before in this thread, you can just scroll up.
China has been sanctioning them too. They don't trade nearly as much as you might think they do. Let's look at the facts for a second and beyond your ideology:
northkoreaintheworld.org
According to this data, the trade deficit with China is 800 million dollars, and the entire volume of trade arround 5,8 billion dollars. The entire GDP of the DPRK is calculated to be arround 32 billion dollars - this means that the economy of the DPRK is arround 18% dependent on China, and mind you, most of these imports are fuel (which they can't produce themselves) and consumer items. This doesn't even account for the fact that China now has banned coal imports from the DPRK a month ago. To say that the DPRK would collapse if it weren't for China is simply not based arround facts, I'm sorry. They are way less propped up by foreign relations than every other country. How are you blaming the DPRK for this and not the fabricators of these sanctions, which are the USA? Do you think it's okay to not allow a small country to recieve medicine and food imports? Do you expect a small country to produce literally everything themselves?
Where? Special Economic Zones are basically dead at this point.
Stop of imports of fertilizer and pesticides from the USSR caused that, not because there was a structual design flaw. In any case, the 90s are over, so let me ask you again: Where are they failing?
True for every other country in the world as well, but hey, that pretty much happens now with the new sanctions, so I guess we are going to see them collapse now, right??
Fuck off.
Supporting imperialism because you want SocDems to be having seats in South Korea - I can't even comprehend that level of opportunism you are on.

you mean apart from having one family rule the country since its inception with a personality cult that makes them nearly godlike?
that's hardly "buzzwords" my friend
as you said, the main import is fuel, which I might add they are incredibly dependent on and which the Chinese have refused to stop the tap on because that would lead to the eventual collapse of the state.
Of course that is ignoring the fact that China is pretty much the only legitimate place NK businesses can do export trade, even though that is rapidly drying up, not to mention a source of many imports from China.
they've actually been allowing small scale capitalism to occur at the lower levels of society, it's not China tier but it's midway on the way to go that direction.
well considering they are one of the few states outside of Africa where you will unironically hear people worried about harvests failing I'd say they have failed to remedy the obvious structural issues that allowed them to nearly collapse in the 90s
again they are not completely cut off, and more importantly fuel imports have not been cut off (they've been capped but pretty much at their current import level), but if the Chinese ever actually did cut them off for real they would be fucked (they'd last a little while thanks to fuel reserves but after a year or two it'd fall apart)
but more to the point North Korea is the sole impediment to SK/ and assuming in reunified Korea from having genuine leftist politics and not Moon tier centrism as their "leftism", not to mention actually being anything other than slavishly pro American when there is actually a strong pro-China current within SK politics that is always suppressed thanks to the divide.
I should add that how do you expect anything more than a socdem to gain power in Korea if even the socdems are banned for pro-NK tendencies? unless you veer into fantasy of the North winning the long game

Is no one gonna talk about that dude defecting

Kim is not almighty, and Kim Il-sung, Kim Yong-nam and Kim Jong-il all voted against the succession. Read what I've written here: , their leader is a symbolic rally point.
So is every other industrial society on the planet. What's your point? The DPRK has already invested more in green and sustainable energy than most countries.
theconversation.com/behind-north-koreas-surprising-compliance-on-climate-change-26013
38north.org/2017/10/bjacobs102017/
Wrong, there are still high state quotas for agricultural co-ops, they can only sell 30% locally, and in cities I saw markets where people sell personal items (clothes, toys, etc.) privately. That's not at all like pointing towards capitalism. Sometimes you have North Koreans who work in China, they buy stuff in China and then sell it in the DPRK, there is no other way to have access to modern consumer items which they can't produce themselves.
They've turned every piece of arable land into farmland, there is nothing more they can do. It's a mountainous country. How is this a structural deficit of the state?

who is this r/chapotraphouse faggot? seriously, this is cringe tier, at least read the fucking thread before you try and go head to head with someone who clearly knows more than you

Any one here ever think about moving to
Best Korea ? why or why not? And if so, what area would you be most interested in moving to?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638213/Tourist-took-camera-inside-North-Korea-expected-really-really-sad-people-shocked-seemingly-ordinary-lives-citizens.html

Dude unless you are retarded or an apologist in denial and just making up shit on the fly like that ☭TANKIE☭ its obvious most of these prestige buildings are not used at all.

Their fucking capital pictures are a lightshow of the ever same dozen prefabbed in China towers equipped with neonlights and really lazy efforts to make them look used by turning on lights in rooms but since they have to do it every day you will notice thats its always the same unnatural pattern of rooms with turned of light on every fucking photo. There are no swarm of people like in every other "major" city of this size ever. These arent calm phases. There are not bustling phases. At best you get a closeup of a dozen people that crops out the empty streets around them. Even poor African nations have more authentic cities.

The staged convenient store photos come almost entirely from the ever same store that is almost completey empty on every casual video and only used by Western expats who come to North Korea to order around cheap Korean workers

Every expat always arrives at the same empty places, is put up in the same empty places that are exclusively used by them and otherwise empty and cycles through the same barely populated city using the same barely used road visiting the same save expats again completely unvisited dinners and restaurants.

Most of the production facilities in factories look like they are fresh out the factory themself and the facilities impracticable sterile. Thats not because of good maintenance, that looks different if you ever went into a factory. Thats because only a few are ever used and only showcased for photos. They are not linked into the economy but some randomly placed props. There is in fact absolutel no real industry beyond basic needs like the still completly insuffcient food productions or sewing shops that isnt a coop with capitalists from the West or Asia only producing for foreigners and mostly just assembling shit like China did in the past and even those are getting shut down. Everything out of the "industrial" era including processed food is simply directly shipped from China with trucks every single hour.

Do you have ANY DATA to back that up? I don't know why you would spread misinformation. Have you been to North Korea?
They turn off the electricity during the night so I don't know what you are even talking about.
What the fuck do you mean? The metro is packed as fuck. People have less cars, is that what you mean?
Lie. Pyongyang has rush hours. Their busses and bikelanes are packed during it. Most of the times people actually live at their workplace, so you won't see people getting to work as much as in the west. It's only capitalism where you have that usual reproduction of daily life where you get out of bed, go to work, get back home.
Not at all. There are corner stores all over the country, sure, the big new department stores (which are filled with North Koreans!) are more expensive, but what you are saying is untrue even "expats" (as in: non-Koreans who work in North Korea, no reason to call them "expats") who live in North Korea can drive arround wherever they want except into some military areas, there are pictures of shops, rest stations, etc. and I can assure you it's real. People go there to shop. Check pics related, do you see any "expats" there? Also, workers in North Korea are paid according to their quantity and quality of labor and have a guaranteed 8 hour day. Their wages are the same in every respective industry and are set by General Federation of Trade Unions. I don't think your consumption can be more ethical than in the DPRK.
There was one place which was designed for foreigners, a pizza place, but most restaurants with more basic food are quite normally frequented. The only real empty restaurant I saw was the hotel one, which was an obvious case.
Why is it not because of good maintenance? They put overwhelming effort into their workplace design.
Alright, that's Alex Jones tier. In stores, you see locally produced consumer items, such as locally produced plastic bottles, you see locally produced tractors on the countryside, even their fucking smartphones are their local brand. How do you think do they maintain economic growth with almost no foreign trade if their main plants don't work?
It's not insufficient anymore. Almost all the food you see is locally produced.
Which fucking sweing shop you are talking about? I mean sewing is particulary independently run, probably the most independent industry of all of them.
Then how come everybody had locally produced clothes? I didn't see a single Chinese or Western brand.
exploredprk.com/photos/at-the-kusong-food-factory/
exploredprk.com/articles/unha-taesong-foodstuff-factory/
Basically if what you are saying were be true there would be a higher trade volume with China but there isn't so unless you present any evidence I'm going to assume you are full of shit.

wilsoncenter.org/publication/north-korea-and-the-cuban-missile-crisis

Yo, this is a really interesting read about why the DPRK decided to go down the path of military self-reliance and nuclear deterrence as a result of the Cuban missile crisis and the Vietnam War, which led to the fleshing out of Juche and eventually Songun policy, which a factor in North Korea's economic slowdown during the 70s and 80s (DPRK used to be more developed and prosperous as South Korea at that time).

...

No, because I'm white.

I'm still going to come smash that state tho

which Korea would you rather live in North or South? The US helped make the South exist, which is overall a net good.

tldr bad leadership fucks up country

redyouth.org/2014/08/01/dprk-propaganda-war-a-cavalcade-of-comedy/

anti-imperialism.org/2014/08/14/western-dprk-propaganda-the-worst-occasionally-hilarious-and-often-racist-lies/

How does that respond to my point? If you are thinking that South Koreans are totally happy with the US basically occupying them you are mistaken. Anti-American protests in South Korea are often heavier than any in Europe, the South Korean government is profoundly unpopular and the socal situation is far from being stable. It's true that most South Koreans would probably not like to live in the DPRK but that doesn't mean that they will be eternally complicit with the way things are.
Ignoring that millions of people died for this shit, it's not that the Republic of Korea was an "Asian Tiger" from the beginning. Despite propped up by foreign investment, the DPRK was clearly superior to the RoK up until the mid-70s. The later success of the RoK is based on foreign capital and comes with late-stage alienation and exploitation of the South Korean working class as well as an insuffcient social security system and gross inequality. Don't be swayed by League of Legends tournaments, K-Pop and some Korean noir-style movies. You can only consider this a "net good" for the working class if you are a full accelerationist. Of course I would wish the the DPRK could economically develop in a similar pace but this is just not possible right now.


How can you say that considering all the states that were embracing the whole "peaceful coexistence" bullshit collapsed or became capitalist in the blink of an eye? If the revolution gives up its militancy against an increasingly all-encompassing capitalist world it's doomed.

>The solar water-heating system supplies hot water at over 50 degrees Centigrade to cultural and welfare facilities. What attracts attention in the factory is the dispersive geothermal air-conditioning system, the heat source of which is underground water, waste water and other water resources at above 3 degrees Centigrade. The system can keep the indoor temperature at about 20 degrees Centigrade, though the outdoor temperature falls in over 20 degrees below zero. The factory also built a soilless greenhouse where such technologies as rainwater collection, methane production based on wastes and drip irrigation were introduced into for increased vegetable production.

Can someone pls archive this thread?

I won't let it die, I thought about writing something more comprehensive to debunk the notion that the DPRK is a monarchy in detail, maybe tomorrow or tuesday depending how much time I have.

Ok I also have to ask are you schnitz?
or Jason Unruhe?

lmao no

As a guy who growed up there in the late 90's early 2000 I can confirm that when anti american protest starts shit really hits the fans. Most of the time is a bunch of boothlickers american loving dogs tho. Seriously, the only real anti americans there are nationalist.

North Korea is a degenerated workers' state.
The Kims are nothing but Maoist LARPers and Juche is an undisguised ethno-nationalism with red food coloring.

Search "the Cleanest Race" on YouTube for an good lecture on the NK regime's philosophy and propaganda organ.

How much of the labor camp shit is true and how much is propaganda? I'm particularly interested in (and suspicious of) the claim that handicapped people are shoveled into them. Like any decent leftist, I don't have many problems with labor camps in general, but I have my limits.

Dumb fucking idiot.
Cleanest race is fucking propaganda.
Jesus christ are we being raided by reddit?
Why there are unironic red liberals running around like thjs?

OK so I'm making a song about the DPRK
How exactly is the DPRK at this given point in time socialist? It seems to me that the state extracts surplus from the workers and that workers still work for the state. On top of that there's private property.

A New Focus correspondent inside North Korea reported through telephone: “Until now, the North Korean government had deemed the private purchase of land or real property as illegal. However, there has been an obvious increase recently in the number of construction companies building apartment blocks and so forth. It appears that the state has realised the limitations of the current legislation and are taking countermeasures. These include new rules relating to the boundaries of newly-constructed buildings, or where land can be bought, and the penalties, mainly confiscation, for exceeding those boundaries.”

The correspondent also reported that the maximum area of land that one family is allowed to possess, as specified by the state, is 26 pyeong (1 pyeong is equivalent to 3.3058 m2). When asked what the motive was behind the changed legislation, the correspondent answered, “North Korea previously did not allow the possession or purchase of land or real estate, but in reality, that was only true for the poor. Those who had money could buy and sell property. In fact, it’s a growing trend in North Korea at the moment.”

newfocusintl.com/exclusive-private-ownership-land-now-legal-north-korea/

READ CRITIQUE OF THE GOTHA PROGRAM
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/
It's short, it's simple, just FUCKING READ IT.

As I wrote in , only a handpicked few of the defectors who are rewarded with thousends of dollars are usually the ones you see in the media and telling the stories. The majority of the defectors you will never hear, they dwell in slums near the border in China or South Korea. If you happened to be imprisoned in North Korea, there is a legit chance that you become a wealthy media personality if you manage to defect. I'm sure the prisons in North Korea are not as good as the prisons in wealthy western countries, remember that they have constant scarcity and you have to consider especially that the West also entirely boycotts medicine imports into the country, so prisonders are probably at the bottom end, there might be infections in North Korean prisons, this is very likely. If you want to help the North Korean convicts, lift the sanctions!

After that being said, yes, I do believe that the horror stories about Camp 14 and the such are lies or at least extremly exaggarated:
edition.cnn.com/2015/01/18/asia/north-korea-defector-changes-story/index.html
theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/why-do-north-korean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart
Again, these people are professional liars.

That seems to be entirely made-up. There are many centers of people with diabilities in the cities, the DPRK boasts all the time about their exceptionable treatment of the disadvantaged like orphans or handicapped people. From the pdf:
Those at school age can learn in a special class organized in ordinary schools or in special schools such as those for the blind, dumb and deaf and for intelligence cultivation according to their physical and mental features and forms of disability. Persons with disabilities have the right to be provided with special educational materials and equipment and facilities of special schools from the state.

Pic related is an orphanage and a home of disabled children. I don't think you'd find something like that in the West, in terms of quality compared to the standard of the rest of available facilities. Protection of orphanes also results in women not having to go through abortions.

Common ownership of the means of production, workplace democracy, production for use, surplus allocated collectively and not by individual producers.
There is no surplus value, there will always be surplus. People work for the state (or in cooperative ownership in agriculture) but there is a workplace democracy, the Taen Work system. archive.is/HbuXi
How is the fact that they construct new buildings proof that there is private property? The new buildings in Pyongyang are public projects, observers have been speculating how they do this but obviously they are all capitalists, so whenever something new is build it must be capitalist because they don't believe that a planned economy works. The fact of the matter is, we don't know how they organized the new building boom. The fact that a) you can see mostly soldiers building the new projects and b) they are exclusively used for teachers, scientists, etc. suggest that these are publicly build.

Kim Jong-un's policy is quite different from the one of his father. He put less emphasis on songun (which is military-fist) and said he want to put more emphasis on byungjin (which is the policy associated with Kim Ilsung) to develop the infrastructure and consumer goods more.
Personal property. You can not rent that shit out.
There was always a black market in the DPRK since the 90s, due to the catastrophic situation at that time. But it is important to read between the lines, the correspondent (assuming he is legit) didn't say that this was legislation - he just said that's what some people did. I don't see any intention of the leadership to actually legalize this. Of course there are probably a bunch of corrupt officials, turning a blind eye. Nobody says everything is flawless, the question is whether or they not they are visibly committed to socialism and I think they clearly are, more than any other country on the planet in fact.

From what we can observe, the majority of the construction of new homes is still done publicly and cooperatively. Pics related. Hundreds of new apartment buildings are erected in the countryside, you can see militas and soldiers working on it, and this proves that the state still is very much capable of providing housing:
upi.com/North-Korea-moving-flood-victims-into-new-homes/2691479344309/
May I remember how Trump dealed with the hurricane in Puerto Rico? You really gotta question capitalism when a poor-ass small socialist country deals better with enviromental catastrophe than you.

This is really a fantastic solution to migrant labor/construction labor. It's unpleasant and unfair, so just make it part of a draft. The military has to do unpleasant and unfair things, it's their job. This way it doesn't lead to underclasses, everyone has to pitch in and do it at some point in their life.

Support our troops!

bump

Would you move to north korea if you could?

some user pointed out earlier that the real question is, would you prefer to live in the DPRK if faced with the options of other countries with similar GDP? The answer should be pretty resoundingly yes for logical people.

As mentioned, with a choice between DPRK and Cuba or some other country with equal GDP, the answer is unambiguously that I want to live int the communist country. That said, I'd also rather live in DPRK or Cuba than be poor in most imperialist countries. I almost want to move there and I'm not poor, but the blockade would mean giving up some commodities that I'm used to.

edition.cnn.com/2015/09/23/asia/north-south-korea-defector-family/index.html

This article highlights the reality for most defectors and I have literally idea what the fuck was wrong with CNN when they wrote that article because it almost reads like North Korean state media.


[so much for North Korea imprisoning people in the country]


>For South Korea, it's not that easy. It has a protocol to bring defectors in, but it is illegal for them to return.


>She says she pretended to be a North Korean spy in order to be deported. But South Korea doesn't deport spies, they imprison them. So after turning herself into the police, Kim was sentenced to two years for passport fraud and espionage. Her sentence was suspended in April and she is now out on parole and under close watch. Her status as a convicted criminal makes travel out of South Korea legally impossible.

>Kim says she is now stuck in South Korea with no more options, working as a machine operator at a recycling plant. Although her health has improved, Kim says the mental anguish is unbearable. Her arms bear the scars of multiple suicide attempts.


>Asked if they'd like to send Kim a message, her husband, Ri Gum Ryong, speaks to the camera, at times bursting into tears. "To my wife in South Korea, don't forget here you have parents, a husband and daughter, and a socialist nation. Keep on fighting until the end," he says.


>South Korea's Unification Ministry says the law does not allow them to bring Kim's family back together.

So what can we take from this? 1. DPRK let's you travel abroad 2. South Korea throws away your passport so you're stuck 3. Capitalism is generally shit 4. DPRK doesn't imprison your family when you defect.

A similar story:
english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_northkorea/799215.html

I guess most defectors are tricked by human traffickers who promise you the paradise in South Korea.

Yeah if given the choice between the DPRK and literally any African country or low-tier SE-Asian country like Bangladesh, its DPRK every time.

I'd rather live in Gabon than North Korea.

Why?

Atrocity propaganda in full display.

Great thread OP! Has someone archived it?

Can you explain more about how their workplace democracy works?

I've made a threat about this where I try to explain it in detail as much as possible: archive.is/HbuXi

neck yourself mate

What do you think would happen if I as a US citizen were to travel to the DPRK after Trump's travel ban? What's the chance I'd be banned from going back to the United States where my family lives?

ITT: Edgy teenagers going through a phase and will be liberals in a few years

self crit fellas

yeah how do we save this? There's so much here I wanna read

archive.is/Z2muN

I'm not an American so I don't know. I would imagine they've let you back in but only with a heavy fine or potentially with detention even. I don't think it's worth it to be honest. Before Trump, Americans could visit the DPRK without any problems whatsoever.


What makes you say that? Supporting the DPRK gives liberals a heart attack. There is way more liberal potential in Xexizy-types who eventually realize that their snowflake brand of perfect socialism will never come to pass within their lifetime so they settle for reformism.

Like a welfare state ala the DPRK, no doubt.

A little bit about the notion that the DPRK is a "monarchy". Above I've already mentioned that Kim Jong-il opposed succession (bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12304763) but that is obviously not enough to disprove the notion of a monarchy.

1. Elections

So how legit are the elections in the DPRK? Formally, Kim Jong-il and Kim Jong-un couldn't get into their positions without the approval of the Supreme People's Assembly at some point. Here is a general, long in-depth article about elections in North Korea: leftistcritic.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/elections-in-the-socialist-motherland-democracy-in-the-dprk/
Of course, a blogpost is not a sincere source, even though this one gives some insight into the issue, so I recommend reading it. There is actually one sincere source that we have documenting elections in the DPRK from an outsider's perspective, which is the report of the Interparliamentary Union from 1992, now obviously this is a little dated, but it is important to know that this was in middle of the heaviest crisis of the country, right after the collapse of the USSR, where the country was at the brink of collapse. Surely at such a time a crisis of democracy would degenerate the most, so I think this election can not be considered a showcase for the DPRK government. I've attached the pdf. What does the document say:
>A voter casts a ballot personally to a deputy in candidacy so that this will may be directly reflected in an election of deputies and does so in a place where secret ballot is thoroughly maintained.
Thoroughly maintained. Furthermore, on the composition of the Supreme People's Assembly:
50% are workers and farmers. Wew.
Alright, so unless I'm presented a source that actually proves that everything is a sham, I'm more inclined to believe this report. I'm not saying that there could not be some sort of fraud here or there, mainly since there is no international observation, but what we know from Kim Jong-un's approval rates among defectors is that the the people actually do support their government and keep electing it. This might be unusual for us, since we are used to unpopular bad leaders in the West.

1/2

2/3 (turned out to be three)

2. Ideology

So much for the elections, here now let's look at the ideological role of the leader. I'm going to provide two sources, first, the Pyongyang work Understanding Korea: Politics, form the paragraph Role of the Leader in the Socio-Political Organism:
The leader is an ideological rallying point. He's not responsible for day-to-day politics, but rather a symbol of the revolution, granting ideological guide-lines. He is not the master of the people, rather a representation of the will of the people. He can't break out of the socialist leading idea. Furthermore, here is a bit from Juche: Answers to 100 Questions:
So the finding a successor obviously plays a huge role. Why is that? Kim Jong-il's Respecting the Forerunners of the Revolution Is a Noble Moral Obligation of Revolutionaries gives a clue:
Juche is in the tradition of Marxism.
There is more but I'm too lazy to type it all up right now. Well, Juche is a deeply anti-revisionist ideology. Their experience is embossed by seeing state after state succumb to revisionism and capitalism. So they decided to take the most radical stance in defeating revisionism, grooming and preparing a leader as an ideological rallying point to never let the spark of revisionism gain traction as it did in China and Russia. Is that Marxist? The idea of a leader maybe not. But did it work? It did so far.

3/3

Lastly, what is the defining aspect of a monarchy? A king has an heir by birthright who inherits his positions. Well, that never happened in the DPRK. Neither Kim Jong-il nor Kim Jong-un hold the same positions as their fathers. In fact, their power diminishes with each generation and their positions are always adjusted to the changing material and political conditions. Kim Il-sung was the President. After he died, there was no more need for his role, so Kim Jong-il became chairman of the newly created National Defense Commission and Central Committee instead, a role with much lesser power. This is the thing: The offices the leader holds are getting more disaggregated with every generation depending on what role has to be fulfilled. Head of state, which would be per definition the role of a "monarch" was given to the president of the presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly and head of government became the premier of the cabinet. Yes, Kim Jong-il was neither head of state nor head of government. When Kim Jong-il died, the National Defense Commission was transformed to the State Affairs Commission, over which composition Kim Jong-un has no authority. This move was based on changing conditions again, as the emergency state of songun came to an end and a merging of civil and military government was required again to mutually develop military and econonomy. So, you can't say at all that the DPRK is a monarchy.

TIL the German Kaiserreich was not a monarchy.

Are you serious nigga? I don't even think you could have read what I wrote within that time. Neck yourself.

Internet and I can see my family whenever I want.

you can access internet from north korea, they have also they own layer of protocol & a bigger "firewall".

NK is activity looking for teacher in IT , English & French. you can email them in english or in french.

it's must be comfy living a illusion "Not Feudalism with social welfare™"

How do i move to nk guys

find a local contact & work ,then go to north korea embassy to get your paper and enjoy the flight

tell me how I can play runescape from NK then.

...

you're the one who sounds like a liberal though

Not that you can have shit taste with shitty central african internet either.

tankanon, can I get some sources on the official US and international sanctions against North Korea?

Newest UN sanctions:
un.org/sc/suborg/en/sanctions/1718
Sanctions in general:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_North_Korea
There is more when you google it. Many countries have taken individual measures that are not included within the offical UN resolution.

What's edgy about supporting a nice socialist country that's fending off genocide while providing free housing, healthcare, etc. to its people?

Juche is revisionist.

How so?

Their racial stance, emphasis on Juche ideology over material conditions, which incorrectly sees self reliance as necessary for socialism, and focus on the military rather than productive forces in general.

I sympathise with the DPRK but their errors should still be pointed out.

youtube.com/watch?v=UeHuN5Cy8mk
I'm curious as to how the way people are acting in this video compares with the people you interacted. Thank you in advance if you respond

Myers is a scam and you shouldn't read his shitty book. North Korean anti-American propaganda posters are not a proof of racism, no matter how much Freudian psychoanalysis the guys injects into that. There are black Juche groups who live in Pyongyang for a couple of years.
Juche is a materialist ideology. See .
Self-reliance doesn't mean isolationism, but mutual trade. If they didn't go for self-reliance, they would have collapsed like the rest of the Eastern Bloc.
Nuclear deterrence is actually preferred because it's cheaper than upgrading the army. Considering the threat they are facing, I'd say it's justified. Besides that, they have said they want to develop productive forces more once the nuclear program is complete. It's called byungjin policy, which means economic development together with military development.


Average North Koreans are not necessarily more into politics than an average person in the West. These rallies you see are not representative for the mindset of an average North Korean, they are choreographies. Most North Koreans are supportive of their government but won't shove it down your throat, besides the obvious talking points the tour guide has to mention.

news.vice.com/story/north-koreas-bitcoin-crash-course-has-experts-worried

Also, from this article:

now I am pro dprk but just because they leave something uncensored for tourists doesn't they do for their citizens

He isn't a tourist. He is a lecturer at the university, teaching North Korean citizens.

has kim jong un ever not gotten his way? because that would prove he doesn't have all the power.

is he in North Korea permenantly, or is he a guest lecturer?

If he was we would never find out because they are all about unity.


Guest lecturer afaik, read the article.

so a tourist?

youtube.com/watch?v=H1o4B9SWrX4

A tourist wouldn't be able to hold classes for North Korean citizens. He uses the Internet for his research that he's gonna use it in his class. Obviously a totalitarian state would try to have a grip on it, which is what happened to the dude in China. Nitpicking much?


Is that the same person who cursed the Roo?

Yeah.
For some reason her videos are set to private now.

The DPRK is the last bastion of true, untouched-by-revisionism, Marxism-Leninism on the face of the earth. We must learn by what they do to keep it at bay.

That's utopian, DPRK is making concessions and adaptations just like Cuba is. It's still largely antirevisionist, and it's a bastion of hope for humanity.

What about calling Obama a monkey and welcoming neo-Nazis?reuters.com/article/northkorea-cybersecurity/update-4-north-korea-blames-u-s-for-internet-outages-calls-obama-monkey-idUSL3N0UB04K20141227
espressostalinist.com/2013/05/29/white-power-and-apocalyptic-cults-pro-dprk-americans-revealed/

From what I gather from this article is that they told him to put down the White Supremacist stuff from his website as they don't wish to be associated with it. Juche study groups are forming arround the globe all the time, they don't specifically monitor what's going on there, and in the early 2000s they were even more isolated than now, so they didn't have a reason not to accept support of any anti-American group they could get a hold off. Obviously they fucked up there.

About the Obama thing, they didn't call him a monkey, they said he acted like a monkey, which is totally justified in regards to The Interview, that movie was racist against Koreans themselves. I wonder how the American reaction would be if the Russians released a blockbuster with Obama being portrayed as a stereotypical black person and then being brutally killed by the end of the movie. One of the biggest supporters of the DPRK have always been Africans.

bump

This man supposedly died in November, as the only US military defector in NK still alive, F to pay respects

F

This man supposedly died in November, as the only US military defector in NK still alive, RIP

Obama is a genocidal warmonger, DPRK can call him whatever they want.

Some tinfoil shit about the soldier defecting:
mobile.twitter.com/blake_brunner/status/933694797079912448
There are some valid points though.

like who?

buzzfeed.com/monicamark/the-dream-of-north-korea-is-alive-in-west-africa?utm_term=.liOqaWAMkO#.gtj4vxjm8X

This happened earlier last month:
kcnawatch.co/newstream/1511929848-163930118/ethiopian-juche-idea-study-group-formed/

In Pyongyang, on political holidays, you'll always see many Africans celebrating with them. The idea of socialist self-reliance is attractive to them.

everyone in this thread utterly BTFO

Do these fags think that North Koreans defy the laws of physics? How the hell would DPRK maintain 20mil population without feeding anyone? Through photosynthesis?

I think their claim about illiteracy is even more retarded, the DPRK has a higher literacy rate than South Korea

Through foreign aid, including American NGOs.
theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/north-korea-food-aid-fund

The 90s are over dude.

The foreign aid is being rolled back due to sanctions not a lack of need.
The UN reported that 2016 was a good year for agriculture, although not characteristic or indicative of a trend. The UN still reports increases in food emergencies.
You completely glossed over the fact that North Korea is turning a blind eye to private property (and rape) and has become a state-capitalist exporter of "fossil fuels." Your pals in Pyong-Yang need to get with the times and start building some renewable energy farms.

user pls

Same thing about the US innit? With their government being a wasps nest of pedos and sexual offenders so you can jolly well fuck off with that
Also its Pyongyang

Are you claiming that the food situation has not improved since the 90s?
Yeah but they were wrong as we can obviously see looking at 2017.
Which private property? Where?
lmao
According to the article you posted, they are not. If you are claiming they are a big exporter of fossil fuels you go against the article you posted yourself.
What the fuck do you think they are doing?
theconversation.com/behind-north-koreas-surprising-compliance-on-climate-change-26013
38north.org/2017/10/bjacobs102017/
Case in point:
exploredprk.com/articles/ryuwon-footwear-factory​/

Remember the concepts of skyscraper farming which get posted by communalists and social ecologists all the time? The DPRK actually tries to implement this shit:
youtube.com/watch?v=EusVVyx5gB8
In this video you can see trees and greenhouses on different levels of high rise buildings

Also recommend this video, recently opened hospital:
youtube.com/watch?v=XClaO9NYGog
Should contradict the claim that healthcare in the DPRK collapsed pretty well. I mean, even we assume something alike happened in the 90s - this clearly proves the intention to improve and expand public, modern and free healthcare for everybody.

Should I red pill myself on NK again or just support it?

Is this documentary faked? It shows pictures of alleged North Korean slums.

youtu.be/WOzY3U9xIoM

Redpill is Holla Forums tier shit, just appreciate the DPRK and its achievements and oppose the sanctions. You can still be critical of Juche or their leader worship but don't be one of these leftists that are imperial pawns who practically endorse a regime change.

Alright I'm going to watch it and write my opinion on it later. Although watching the first minutes it looks like they blow up stuff like an argument between a woman and a soldier on a street.

While NK is still no way a "free" country, the average citizens life has greatly improved under Kim Jong-un.

Alright so I've decided to comment on various things they say.
No comment. At this point it's already obvious how horribly biased this is going to be. They show pictures of KIm Jong-un, a bunch of soldiers and put some dark Mordor theme music under it.
And I'm sure those 10k bucks the South Korean government pays for every clip help.

On the footage you see some women working the fields, nothing special. Some orphan kids, that's fucked up, alright. A bunch of people being charitable to orphan kids. The DPRK government has invested great resources to build orphanages across the country, see . Efforts are obviously made, but I don't think what you would expect from a country with such a low GDP and massive sanctions being implemented. It's also worth noticing that he films the same group of children over and over, in the same corner, it's obviously a bad spot but they cut it in the way to give the impression that this is somewhat representative of every day life. They also don't mention when the footage was taken, later in the movie the footage of the same guy said it was shortly after Kim Jong-il's death, so the footage must be 6 years old.
Weddings often get funded by the state. It's not unusual they would get a Mercedes for their wedding day. I the West people rent out luxury cars for their wedding as well.

Also, the picture on the Study House only shows Kim Il-sung. This implies that this was filmed before the death of Kim Jong-il in 2011, so some of the footage is older than 7 years.
Uh, no. I've been to one department store and you have North Koreans shopping there. I have no idea why the filmmaker couldn't buy there, maybe because he was filming or something.
Bullshit and obviously stuff he's paid to say.
What's the point?
Ugh, obviously this guy had to show up. One of the most prominent post-Soviet anti-communist academics.
It objectively is when you ban medecine from entering the country and conduct invasion excercises in front of the border.
They objectively did unless you don't consider occupying half the country and installing a genocidal puppet regime an act of war.
I mean, yes, there are some formalities, but are you just going to ignore that there is also democratic decision-making taking place? It's also pretty cringey how the filmmaker ads stuff like "can they finish up?" because he probably knows what sells.
Songbullshit again. No source, whatsoever, just claims based on a small speech of Kim Il-sung in theb 50s.
edition.cnn.com/2015/09/23/asia/north-south-korea-defector-family/index.html
Family wasn't touched at all of a defector.
No proof for anything.
>the same orphans again
Come the fuck on.
Casual Nazi rethoric
Horrible!

The rest doesn't show anything new, just jerking off about how great South Korea is. They also obviously always interview the handpicked defectors, those who became TV show hosts in South Korea, and never talk to those who live like shit in China or South Korea. Considering they make up the majority of defectors, this is a blatant misrepresentation.
bbc.com/news/business-40679333
Glad to see porky still gets surpressed.
They are joking at this point, they promote phone ownership in their official state media.

So apparantly the documentary is from 2013, not from 2017. A lot of things have improved since then.

BOOKCHIN CULTISTS BTFO
DPRK and Cuba PROVE that MARXISM LENINISM is the only path to a truly ecological society.

Just a bump and also posting this because somebody in this thread claimed that the DPRK puts disabled people in camps:
kcnawatch.co/newstream/1512315026-967820530/intl-day-of-persons-with-disabilities-marked-in-dprk/

>espressostalinist.com

Large airforce drills going on in South Korea now,

twitter.com/DEFCON_News/status/937506972697587713

Just as an addition, I did some research on the whole "calling Obama a monkey" thing and I came upon two conclusions:

1.) The whole source the WaPo bases its claim upon is - surprise - a blog, freekorea.us. The owner of this page, Josh Stanton, bases his information on a South Korea professor named Sung-Yoon Lee. So, what is his background:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sung-Yoon_Lee
Kim Koo-Korea Foundation? What the hell is that?
LMAO. So basically this claim originated from the South Korean ministry of foreign affairs.

So, I researched a little bit what the Korean statement actually means, since the sources provided are highly dubious. According to Koreans, "원숭이도 나무에서 떨어진다" means "Even monkeys may fall from trees". This is a phrase more comparable to "A good marksman my miss" or "bull in a China shop". Obviously monkey doesn't have the racist connotations it has in the West at all.

So: The media was lying, the DPRK was never racist against Obama at all.

second paragraph is supposed to be 2.)*

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-yn89xVI2CQJ:www.kcna.co.jp/item/2014/201405/news02/20140502-22ee.html &cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b

...

...

I know, right? How can people actually believe the bullshit coming out of South Korean tabloids?

redyouth.org/2014/08/01/dprk-propaganda-war-a-cavalcade-of-comedy/

Is their citizens being barred from accessing the Internet to learn about the outside world enough for you idiots to realize the DPRK is indeed a totalitarian shithole?

...

Why would being skeptical of whiteness make someone an IDpoler? I'd call it the opposite, a class essentialist should reject racial identification wholecloth.

b-but muh imperialism!

Obama is a wicked monkey, he's killed thousands. Fuck him.

Also, anyone who actually visits the DPRK like tankanon ITT and comes out saying it's not hell on Earth is actually the victim of a Truman Show level deception in which DPRK builds entirely fake Potemkin cities filled with millions of actors.
:^)

Frick off imperialist.

...

kek

Also

...

Additionally to what I've said before about social ecology, here is an example of North Korean window farming inside high rise buildings so people have their own homegrown food.


This was another incident though. The article that was posted is fraudulent. The website you are posting is also pretty anti-DPRK, and the original source doesn't exist anymore.

The claim that the DPRK is racist is absolutely retarded, face it. This pic shows a Kenyan English teacher from North Korean. There has been not a single hard evidence brought forward that they entertain a racialist concept.


Provide evidence that contradicts what we can see with our own eyes. The DPRK truly is the Matrix.


Cyber warfare is real, and they don't have the funds to put up an extensive firewall arround the country like Vietnam or China. The imperialist powers would hack the shit out of the DPRK, also, why do you think North Koreans would not believe propaganda against their own country? They are provided with an Intranet which has access to all sorts of things. You can find Harry Potter and LotR on there.


I'm defending the DPRK not just because I'm against imperialism but also because they are socialist, while you are an orange AnCap.

Holy shit, KJU has a REALLY deep and manly voice.
youtube.com/watch?v=xBXZ-8aQj3w

pic related the answer of a Chinese older lady when she was asked what she thinks of Kim Jong-un.

Why does Kim Jong Un sound like a FotNS character?

...

This video is really great overall. How can anyone keep up the "North Korea erased socialism" meme if they watch this speech/

They are mad because they have removed communism from the constitution because it's not attainable for them right now at all. Communism is global.

youtube.com/watch?v=8Kh58uLFPTM

Shame the Chinese leadership is happy to comply with US sanctions.

God I fucking hate watching documentaries about North Korea. They make it so obvious that they want to portray then as evil bond villians, with dark music in the background everytime somebody speaks, and zoom into the face of children if they don't know an answer to a question and put sad music under it. Everything is filmed with a grey filter, preferably on a rainy day, and shaky "secretly filmed" irrelevant nonsense is presented as a "glimpse of the true face of North Korea". Also the desperate attempts all the time to make them say something racist.

Okay but the clapping is fucking overbearing. Is it a cultural custom or is le don't stop clapping boogeyman true?

People in that clip clapped as long as the people at the party congresses in my country, even shorter. The US congress clapped 20 minutes (!!!) after a Merkel speech

Holla Forums KFA trip to Pyongyang when?

So the meme is real after all.

They "comply" while continuing to smuggle trade with DPRK regardless. Also, they're likely going to disregard the sanctions soon now that DPRK has full ICBMs.

They've banned tourism and coal imports. The latter is sort of a big thing as that was the main export hit of the DPRK. Maybe they still do it via smuggling, there are plenty of channels which have been established over the years in anticipation of the sanctions.

China should really stop being concerned about what the "international community" thinks of them. The USA openly supports Saudi-Arabia and nobody cares.

m8

DemSoc01 is talking shit about the DPRK on Twitter. He's gonna release an anti-DPRK video he said, and reading through his feed it's probably gonna be full of imperialist sources.


It's still progressive. If you think the DPRK can establish social ecology considering the shitty situation you are utopian, however it shows their commitment to sustainable farming, energy and the like, including an intention to innovate and experiment. I mean they are using algae farms for energy production now.

Nigga you were the one who mentioned social ecology. What do you actually know about social ecology? I haven't met a t.ankie yet who's actually read ecology of freedom

So democratically run permacultures and arcology are not part of social ecology as an ideology? Or are you just here for pedantic nitpicking?

I mean if you want conflate enviromentalism with social ecology. I'm not saying it's not a good thing, only that you're clearly ignorant on the meaning of "social ecology"

I dare you to try and watch KJU's speech to children party members without crying. Tip: you can't.
youtube.com/watch?v=LoX8OrgaDfY

My fucking sides!

It's more the US, I'm not sure why though. The US is pretty open about wanting to destroy China as a great power and things are going to get a lot hotter in the next few years

bump

I recommend reading Rodong Sinmun, it has an English site. The language can be a bit bizarre but it makes for an interesting perspective. NK isn't as isolationist as people think.

They report surprisingly often on union activities in South Korea. Do people in South Korea exist that support North Korea? I've seen a Korean media station interviewing people in Seoul and the comment section was outraged because on of the guys who were interviewed wore some specific blue shirt, which apparently is a secret symbol that you support Kim Jong Un and are a commie.

They are at war so I doubt it.

Kim Jong-un inspects newly built potato farm:
exploredprk.com/press/kim-jong-un-inspects-newly-built-samjiyon-potato-farina-production-factory/

From the article:
>The factory, with a total floor space of 27 920 square meters and a yearly production capacity of 4 000 tons, consists of potato farina production building, processed potato production building, 20 000 ton-level potato storage, auxiliary building and workers’ hostel.
>Going round combined control room, potato farina workshop, products show room, cultural and welfare establishments, sci-tech learning space, potato storage and other parts of the factory, Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un acquainted himself in detail with its construction and production.
So, contrary to some other narratives, the newly build enterprises are definitely not half-private joint-ventures or anything. Looks like that they are still true to their Taean Work System.

By the way, if they keep dishing out newly build factories in such a pace shortages of consumer goods or food diversity will soon cease to exist. I can imagine the DPRK becoming a role model for the developing world once again.

Efforts are made to establish a renewable domestic energy supply:
38north.org/2017/12/sonbong120517/


The end is particulary interesting:

If they manage to establish a stable power supply for the Sungni Chemical Factory, they will be able to produce pesticides and artifical fertilizers again, including phosphate. That means a tremendous increase in agricultural output, and is a decent step in solving North Korea's food situation decently.

Interesting how they rely on hydroelectric so much when they have a successful nuclear program. Shouldn't they be getting a lot more energy from nuclear plants? Maybe nuclear power stations are a liability given that they could be heavily targeted by imperialist cyberwarfare or conventional weapons.

Good question. I actually don't know the answer as I'm not an expert in these things. Maybe I'm going to ask my granddad, he has worked as an engineer in building nuclear power plants.
They would most likely be connected to the state's intranet.

they love their hydroelectricity don't they

Pretty good lad. Stolen


If kike media tells you a county is bad believe the opposite.

still vulnerable. cia could flip someone and get them to bring in a malware USB stick or something. That said, I think DPRK actually DOES have at least one nuclear plant, right?

Incredibly hard. The DPRK can't be infiltrated, this is also a reason as to why the USA is so buttmad about them.
They don't actually. They have plants but they don't seem to operate in terms of energy supply, to my knowledge. I don't know why.

So they have enrichment plants instead of PPs? Would make sense depending on their supply of nuclear material as you would want to fully prepare enough nuclear warheads before using it on the powergrid.

So was Kim Jong Il actually polygamous or what?

which is it?

Would the USA really broadcast it to everyone if they had a mole? I mean, KJU has purged a few guys. Some of them could have been spies or something.

Very strange. It seems they had a power plant but never got it running.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_North_Korea#Denuclearization_pledges
Totally weird since there's no diplomatic reason not to start generating nuclear electricity. They straight-up have nukes. It's not an Iran-type situation.

Can someone give me the Anti-imperialist account of North Korean kidnapping of foreigners, and what actually happened?

what, like 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧western missionaries🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧?

like Japanese people mostly, but also South Koreans and others too.

Give us some context.

...

nice

actually isn't it already older than the USSR
the USSR was formed on 30 December 1922 and dissolved 26 December 1991, so just under 69 years
meanwhile the DPRK celebrated its 69th anniversary in September this year
so yeah

...

wow, that's fucking amazing. Long live the DPRK!

it's pretty well known, you can read this. I wanted to know what Anti-imperialists would say.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese_citizens
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_South_Koreans

Nothing is off limits for a socialist state.

As far as I know the Japanese abductions were based arround intelligence operations, to teach Japanese in North Korean spy schools. It was the Cold War after all, abductions happened everywhere.

With the South Koreans, I think this is a bit different. It's hard to tell who was abducted and who wasn't with all the defection going on back and forth. You are in North Korea, you say you defected, you are in South Korea, you say you got abducted. Goes both ways. I've never heard of any South Korean being mistreated in the DPRK.

Blatantly bullshit, majority are probably defectors who the fascist ROK government claims were abducted, if it happened at all. For the rare actual prisoners, either wartime necessity (needed their skills to fight the imperialist genocide) or trespassers (probably spies), totally justified.

These stories are insanely far-fetched. You need more proofs my dude.

thank you for informing me of what you believe.

As an addition, whether or not how many of these incidents were legit abductions, this spectre of North Korea abducting people is currently being abused by Japan for some pretty restrictive legislation, and the USA blames every disappearance of an US citizen in Asia on the DPRK. There was this American citizen who disappeared in China and all the media went crazy about that the North Koreans would be behind this despite not a single hint that would point towards the DPRK.

The Importance of International Solidarity: DPRK’s Support for Hezbollah
The relationship between Hezbollah and the DPRK started when Israel invaded Lebanon and with the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon when Israel set up a “buffer zone” in the occupied area, and created Israeli loyal militias, made up from segments of the Christian population. The Christian militias – among them the notorious South Lebanon army – carried out ethnic cleansings, mainly against the Druze and Palestinian minorities. The Korean People’s Army (KPA) have provided support to their brothers-in-arms ever since. General-Secretary Nasrallah himself visited the DPRK for training purposes during this time. Among other noted Hezbollah members who underwent training in the DPRK was Mustafa Badreddine, who served as the movement’s counter-espionage chief in 2006, when Israel attacked Lebanon once again, and Ibrahim Akil, head of Hezbollah’s security and intelligence service. It has also been said that about 100 commandos from Hezbollah have received training by the KPA during the same period. It is even claimed that Korean instructors travelled to Lebanon in 2004 and provided Hezbollah with critical assistance in building an extensive and sophisticated fortified tunnel network in the area south of the Litani River and bordering Israel….
jucheireland.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/the-importance-of-international-solidarity-dprks-support-for-hezbollah/

Holy shit, I did not know about this. How can people call DPRK "isolationist" or "anti internationalist" when they have played an active and vital role in the liberation of Lebanon? Also kek, I think this is why imperialists are constantly accusing DPRK of "funding terrorism."

Yeah, and the alleged abduction of Shin Sang-ok and Choi Eun-hee (the actress and the director) sound like a lot of bullshit to me. It's fascinating how no one ever called out this bullshit. They've literally toured Europe as they were employed by the DPRK and said in every press conference they were in North Korea by their own choosing. If they were abducted they could have literally just walked away and went back to South Korea. I mean, if I was abducted, I would get the hell out of there?!

I don't know where people get this "isolationist" meme from. There is literally not a single Juche work or official statement that endorses isolationism. Self-reliance is not isolationism, and self-reliance was only endorsed after USSR and China went revisionist and Kim Il-sung didn't want to have Soviet or Chinese tanks going through Pyongyang.

The DPRK also probably supports the NPA, and what is really funny to me is that they have supported the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna in Sri Lanka in the 70s and 80s which were pretty much Leftcom at that time.

info on this? how could they be leftcoms if they weren't sitting in armchairs?

nknews.org/2017/10/the-story-of-a-north-korea-backed-rebellion-in-1971-sri-lanka/
It's sadly behind a paywall. The JVP wasn't Leftcommunist in the strict sense of the word (as in: Bordigists), they called themselves Marxist-Leninists (because that's how everybody called himself during the Cold War in the Third World) but their program was pretty much ultraleft at that time. Many Indian commie parties lean that way.

After 1991, the DPRK's support for insurrectionary communist moments has faded somewhat, mostly because of the insane pressure enacted on the DPRK, many communist movements existed in developing countries which the DPRK could not afford to support openly, as being caught in the act would cause more sanctions, and the DPRK relies heavily on non-alligned countries to trade with as the entire developed world blockades them. I've seen Western opportunists stating that it's supposedly proof for the abandonment of internationalism on the side of the DPRK because they won't give money to whatever communist organization they are in. That's obviously beyond ridiculous.

Oh and I forget to say the WPK still participates in the IMCWP, so there is that.

kek, I wish DPRK would send an assassin to those parties instead

So basically, no parliamentary participation, and a focus on proletarian spontaneity or some such concept?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meeting_of_Communist_and_Workers'_Parties#18th_International_Meeting,_2016

cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2228rank.html
wew


Would abduction really be necessary to find people to teach Japanese? There are plenty of Koreans who were repatriated from Japan and also a few JRA members living in the DPRK.

That's because Kim Jong Un issued a decree that all men who weigh less than him will have to spend 20 years in the gulag.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Republic_of_Korea


Shortly after the American landing in September 1945, the new United States Army Military Government in Korea, which controlled the peninsula south of the 38th parallel, abolished the PRK government by military decree, primarily because of suspicions that it was Communist. Some local units of the People's Republic remained active in the Jeolla region and especially on Jeju Island, where their presence, together with marauding anti-communist youth gangs, contributed to tensions that discharged in the events known as Jeju massacre.

This is what should be posted every time someone says DPRK was a soviet satellite

Screencapped for convenience.

checked
But screencap it again. Your mouse cursor is in the way.

GET FOR KIM
Holla Forums IS JUCHE

Cheka'd

This pleases the BO

Fixed the screencap. Somebody should fix the website screencap feature since it gives me blank pngs.

They're involved in Syria too, supposedly

More or less yes, it was based on insurrectionism.


One of the worst communist parties in the world. You can read the contributions of the participants of the IMCWP 2016 and 2017 here:
solidnet.org/18-imcwp-contributions
solidnet.org/19th-imcwp/19-imcwp-contributions
Apparantly the WPK only made a speech in 2016, or they havn't uploaded it as yet. The speeches of the CPUSA was absolutely horrible, they endorsed Obama. Imagine how the DPRK delegate must have felt at that point. However, their 2017 speech wasn't entirely shit. It talked about Lenin and expressed solidarity with Cuba, Venezuela, Syria and the DPRK. Maybe the CPUSA is salvagable now that Trump is in power, but of course this would only be possible if it isn't actually a FBI front, which some people claim.


I'm not sure what to make of it. These stories were regarded as conspiracies at their time, so I don't know how much truth they hold. It's convenient to blame every missing citizen on the DPRK. There is no reason to abduct Japanese citizens - unless you think the DPRK government is run by crazy people, which seems to be the imperialist narrative.


This. Saying that the DPRK attacked first in the Korean War is like saying Poland attacked Nazi Germany first.

Fascinating thread which has made me look at North Korea in a different way.

juche flag when?

this claim would need to be substantiated

Juche Santa Claus has come to town to rid your fields of polka-dotted imperialist snakes.
What present will you ask him for?

Korean reunification

when korean socialism is so anti-revisionist is evolves into foucaultian ethno nationalism

there is literally nothing wrong with a country protecting its borders from capitalists and invaders. there is literally nothing wrong with a country being largely "homogeneous" if it isn't the result of racial policies.

It's revealing of the racialist nature of Juche.

...

This should be obvious. The quotes around "homogeneous" and "xenophobic" in the tweet are there for a reason.

by their social-fascist leadership, with the Dynasty of Kim Il Sung at the head, and were not led on the genuine road to socialism."

Nothing new here. DPRK is still standing, yet bunkerman's country collapsed.

Yeah I'm sure if he just stuck his son Ilir in power everything would've been a-OK.

don't they outright refuse to allow any migration to the DPRK?
the USSR in the 20s and 30s was in a similar position (poor, isolated, embargoed) but they still sheltered revolutionaries fleeing persecution by fascism and allowed foreign workers from America to go there to help build industry

no, there's immigration.
web.archive.org/web/20120821203004/http://www.iom-seasia.org/immigrating-north-korea/
quora.com/How-can-I-immigrate-to-North-Korea

Seriously? There are foreigners in the DPRK, obviously not many, since it's a) frankly illegal to immigrate to the DPRK and traps you there for the rest of your life b) not the richest country in the world and c) not having a desire for mass immigration when they are constantly scarce on distributing the few resources they have. Make a peace treaty with the DPRK, lift the sanctions, GTFO of South Korea, establish normal relations and I'm sure more people would slowly want to settle there. The absolute state of the left if the DPRK has to enforce artificial multiculturalism when they are themselves threatened with extinction to be counted as "true socialists".


Why would they allow foreign experts from the USA? Are you serious? I'm sure they have sometimes foreign experts from China for their more elaborate projects, if that's what you mean. What's the point of allowing Americans so that they can write a book with the title "My 3 Years under Tyranny: Living under Kim Jong-un's murderous regime". At least the Americans who came to the USSR like John Scott were honest and reported in good faith (despite him working for the CIA later).


Hoxha was nice in Albania but he was a hyper-autist when it came to judge other socialist states. Also, he has a problem with North Korean carrying pictures or Kim il-Sung but not with Russians carrying pictures of Stalin? Both personality cults have their roots in the masses. Also reminder that Albania got toppled by a workers strike.


You don't understand Juche when you think it's about putting your son into power. Ceaușescu thought the same, he thought Juche is monarchy + building great buildings + being called the leader and look what it got him.

Stalin tried to curb the "personality cult", which was spread by Trots like Radek. Has any one of the three Kims ever tried to reign it in?

Ceausescu got fucked because of his economic policies and appeasement of the IMF, admittedly NK doesn't seem to be doing that, though they have implemented market reforms.

Plenty of normal American workers went to the USSR during the depression, including many black ones, not just experts and rich ones.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Robinson_(engineer)

In With the Century Kim il-Sung he felt awkward about it. It's a good read by the way, even if you disagree with him. Admittedly, the personality cult has become somewhat of a rallying point of North Korean society.
Ceaușescu's policies were a dumpsterfire in every single regard, but I would argue that the situation in the DPRK was in during the mid-90s was equally bad, yet there was never any serious revolt against the leadership, they did sit it out. The market reforms you talk about are not offical policy. There is a black market that is cracked down upon. The only thing was was allowed was to keep 30% of the produce for agricultural collectives and for citizens to bargain about personal items in market halls. That's all. There is no indication in their offical policy that they embrace markets.


Please be intellectually honest. You know very well that the US has banned academic and cultural exchange with North Korea at least since Bush called them part of the Axis of Evil, and has recently banned Americans to travel to North Korea entirely. If you want Americans to go to the DPRK, your beef is with the American government, not with them.

That's beside the fact that a peace treaty was never signed, whereas the USSR and the USA were technically at peace.

Attaching a North Korean work about their economy from 2016.

...

wtf I love Kim now

Advanced turbopump designs.

What was the justification for introducing the Juche calendar?

Christianity is a spook?

Sure but I don't remember the USSR introducing a Marxism-Leninism calendar

Wish they did.

The frogs did the same thing during the French Revolution, but it didn't stick. Any connection there, you think?

Russia is part of the European, Christian culture. Obviously the Gregorian/Julian calender is nothing foreign to them. For Korea it is, and it is especially associated with foreign occupation.

Why wasn't Mao smart enough to understand this?

How would they have imported that in.

Yes, """""""""comply""""""""""

NK is known for sending Nuclear scientists to the Middle East.

express.co.uk/news/world/890695/north-korea-dennis-rodman-kim-jong-un-donald-trump-us-china-world-war-3-piers-morgan

I thought it would be impossible for me to travel to DPRK as a US citizen, but if Dennis Rodman will be going again, I could probably go too. I really doubt they would put me in jail for tourism.

Maybe wait for the sanctions to come to an end. I know there are guided tours you can make from china into NK.

I unironically think Rodman is extremly based for doing this.

Also, how can people say North Korea is racist when this happens? It's not like Rodman isn't the absolute stereotypical cliche one could have about a black person.

...

That claim seems to originate from the opposition, though.

reuters.com/article/us-korea-north-syria/north-korea-denies-aiding-syria-in-fight-against-rebels-idUSBRE9AE01J20131115

Its one of my dreams to be able to get to live there, and start a family.

Dennis Rodman's weirdness transcends race. I say that as someone who unironically thinks #BasketballDiplomacy is a good idea. Rodman isn't black, he's Rodman.

my nigga why?

Recent rumor had it that there was a tunnel accident at one of the missile launching sites, allegedly leaving 200 workers dead in the process. However, recent satelite image shows the tunnel to be fine and operating.
38north.org/2017/12/punggye121117/?utm_source=38 North Bulletin 121117

Just another addition to the ridiculous propaganda list brought up against the DPRK this year. Always question everything you hear about them.

to be fair, North Korea and Syria have incredibly close relations, to the point where Kim has sent more personal letters and messages to Assad than any other world leader and the Norks have in the past assisted Syria with internal security matters like the 1980s muslim brotherhood revolution

It's a lot easier to immigrate to NK than to many other Asian countries.
Guess what, NK did that too.

I always find it funny when everybody complains about the nuclear weapon tests of the DPRK when it's literally the only country in history that has made every single nuclear weapon test public with an official statement.

The Moranbong Band is awesome, well done job on the North Korean part.

youtube.com/watch?v=jIyU_SnLvvc

The guitarist 강평희 can pull off a guitar solo in a beautiful dress and measures up to the level of Joan Jett when it comes to being cool. The South Korean counterpart of SNSD (Girls Generation) just does not compare.

youtube.com/watch?v=ox7XWuCjp1Y

Now when 류진아 sings about how the worker's party is a mother, which breast gives life to people, it might seem silly remembering how Zizek elaborates a bit on the official propaganda stating that the state is a mother, a strict mother who does not shy away from scolding her kids, but wanting the best from them.

This movie from 1986 clearly illustrates this. Traffic controller on crossroads. But the movie stands on its own.
youtube.com/watch?v=_Ge2TQfqwX4

The mother party of course wants the best for her kids. As would the official propaganda illustrate. And of course liberals are too stuck with their Nietzsche and christianity and the opressor-opressed dynamic they desperately try to fit on anything they observe, failing naturally in their analysis.

Even though the Espresso Stalinist made a convincing critique of Juche for not being M-L, still the point of supporting DPRK stands. Especially because the regime is forced by circumstances to create favourable living conditions for people.

espressostalinist.com/marxism-leninism-versus-revisionism/korean-revisionism/

It is really annoying how Zizek constantly pretends that form of propaganda is relevant to anything - even that determines politics!

Also, have a song: youtube.com/watch?v=muWzTVBXFYQ

GG Kim you beautiful bastard.

cnn.com/2017/12/12/politics/tillerson-north-korea-no-preconditions-talks/index.html

US finally agreed to unconditional dialogue with the DPRK for the first time today. Previously, they demanded de-nuclearlization as a precondition.

IMPERIALISTS BTFO
IMPERIALISTS BTFO
IMPERIALISTS BTFO
IMPERIALISTS BTFO
IMPERIALISTS BTFO
IMPERIALISTS BTFO
IMPERIALISTS BTFO

Ha! I guess strategy games do have it right that the moment you have nukes, people stop fucking with you.

examples?

Morangbong band is awesome. This is a reoccurring theme about all socialist states: Their musicians, athletes, artists or acrobats know their shit. You don't become famous by just being a celebrity, you need to have a tremendous set of skills.
I think Kim Jong-il and Kim Jong-un did nothing wrong but I do miss the times when North Korean society was a lot more liberal and laid back in the 80s, before all this shit happened to them.

from Rodong Sinmun:

Happening?

Trump is such a fucking cuck.


What the fuck does a sea blockade against the DPRK even do besides catching some desperate fishing boats? Another measure that only hurts the North Korean people.

Is there any kind of paper/essay/work which deals with the economy of the DPRK which is relatively new? ie how much of the industry is state-owned, what percentage of agriculture is collective, cooperative or private, etc. Does small-scale private farming exist, is there a petite-bourgeoisie in the towns and cities?

The problem is that I hear different things about the DRPK on leftypol all the time and I want the facts.

...

Shitty is too vague a metric, how are you meant to prove that it's not, every country can be "shitty" depending how you look at it.
The proof against various claims made about DPRK is all over this thread, people regularly claim the people are currently starving right now in DPRK but that's just clearly false, it's not the 90s.
You can't just say, there's documentaries and accounts, doesn't make it true, though some things may be, half those documentaries are clearly bullshit.
Do you want to be more specific about what you mean so that it even could be addressed? or just spit meaningless platitudes below even basic liberals and warhawks.
I'm not even as optimistic about DPRK as OP is but that was a shit post you made

I posted this . It's a North Korean work about their economy. You won't find any detailed work from foreign observers as they don't have access to it. There is only speculation about trends and observations people come across. One-person/one-family farms do exist, and citizens can trade items with each other in two markethalls in Pyongyang. These are mostly goods they have purchased in China and are not locally produced in the DPRK. But there are no private owners of means of production, services or stores.

In a few rural areas the services the state provides are sometimes insufficient which is a remnant from the crisis in the 90s. There, you will find for example find people who privately organize bus transfers. But where the state has authority and is functioning, which is increasingly the case again in underdeveloped areas, the socialist system seems to work. Under Kim Jong-un, development has accelerated. And many shitty areas have been modernized.


If you are being so easily swayed, I could as well argue that there is also tons of evidence implying that North Korean isn't the shitty place people make it out to be. If you are taking some handpicked defector stories and ten year old footage as hard evidence that the DPRK is a hellhole, then consequently you must believe that it is also an utopia based on pictures and stories from people who are positively predisposed about the country imply. Of course, neither of it completely true, but you seem to have given up any pretense of nuance and have already marked the DPRK as a villian without engaging with it properly.

It's really surreal to see white Americans in KPA uniforms speaking fluent Korean and praising Kim Jong-un.

what the fuck is this

Why do they have gamer keyboards

Sons of an American defector.

Nice.

Grorious completely independent North Korea reinvented and surpassed Siemens and mocks them adding their logo on superior made in North Korea computer tomographs run with independently developed grorious North Korea OS.

Definitely not shipped from China like all the other prefabbed building materials for empty highrise no.8, electronics, machinery, utilities and basic consumables entering North Korea in trucks every minute and leaving empty, to keep the completely unsustainable country without any real economy and nothing of value to expert besides raw materials and age old Soviet tech alive. Grorious North Korea does not depend on anyone and is most free and happy country in world!

Just be an disingenious ass and report and beg mods to delete any inconvenient facts and the truely delusional narrative and hillarious poorly set up propaganda in this thread prevails!

Tillerson did say that China is preparing for a refugee crisis in the event of "regime change" , which is pretty ominous.

also hold up why are some facing the teacher/whomever is a the screen and some are just on computers lol

this is the future jucheists want

Nice catch.

They probably got them from bankrupt pc bangs in the south? idk but it's weird for sure.

where are the proofs nigger

Hello were is the proofs

Do you expect a tiny country to produce literally everything themselves? Of course they input goods and technology they can't produce themselves. Where in this thread have I tried to hide this? For a country that size and being sanctioned so much they produce a lot on their own. There is no country of the same size in the world that is as independent as the DPRK.
Disingenuous faggot, I've explained earlier how the trade the DPRK has with China is less than 18% of their economy. These are numbers based on western, anti-DPRK sources. Now that coal is banned and with the new sanctions, it's probably going to drop below 10%. Behold, the DPRK must collapse any day now!!! R-r-right??!
I can literally feel how buttflustered you are about this thread, but you have no arguments so you resort to conspiracy theories. Get a life, cuckmeister.

Also I'd like to know how you explain a country with "no economy" to have a higher growth than South Korea.

I wonder what their lives are like. Did they marry? Have any kids? What jobs do they do?

any insight into why they have such badly tailored uniforms?

tbh while I'm an anarkiddy, I do critically support north korea
its HDI speaks for itself, it's not doing bad at all compared to other countries in the region, especially since it's completely isolated

...

globalnews.ca/news/3914891/white-house-not-right-time-for-talks-with-north-korea-rex-tillerson-direct-dialogue/

They're gonna beat ROK at Starcraft.

Maybe some are working on different things, maybe some are just paying more attention, like kids y'know
Sounds like you're trying too hard to find things that are "off"but are actually normal, like you see people, "oooooh it's all so empty" "ooooh random person looks down", there was something about a wedding car looked nice so a poster assumed they are elites, but it could be a rented out car for a special occasion, exactly what happens in the west

What's weird about that? lol

So they can play some vidya on off tim

Then it seems you are well on your way to becoming a mature, reasonable Marxist. Break free from the chains of idealism, my man.

Weird how the oilman billionare is less pro-war than the real estate billionare. You'd think it would go the other way.

woah

Did they marry Koreans?

The article is somewhat contradictory, it says that one refused to marry a Korean girl but it also says they are married with children. Maybe they married another expat later or changed their minds.

It's a good argument to BTFO that claim that the DPRK is racist.

Outright lies. Amusing, given I read the original on their website before it went down the memory hole.
"Anyone I don't like lying!". Reminder: Good propaganda is true.

my mother escsped from north korea before having me. Every horror story you hear about NK is true. Every good thing about them being nice and unoppressed is an absolute bullshit lie. My mom recently heard about 4chan and how they like to troll NK radio broadcasts. She broke down into tears wishing they could broadcast hope messages, telling me about some story where some jew lied in a camp about how americans were coming to save them just to give people hope.

Ive seen nothing but shit tier news coming from that country. When you try to escape they erase 3 generations of your family. Most of the people are in camps. Pudgy little fat kim has his people surviving off grass right now while he buys 44 thousamd dollars worth of just alcohol. He drinks 2 bottles in 1 sitting and gained 80lbs in a year. He also keeps desk popping missles at japan like hes a gangster nigger.

North koreans are all slaves, you all know it, and ,y president is going to slap his motherfucking shit if he doesnt stop popping his shit.

Kims end game is to scare the world into giving him shit. He is a literal tantrum throwing manchild. Everyone always looks like theyre starving except for him. Look at the soldier who tried to escape. His autopsy reported WORMS; fucking filled with worms the size of your keyboard. The absolute state of north korea; they are DYING. I dont know a this point whether were dealing with humans or ground tunneling stragoi from "the strain"

...

Daily reminder that even under feudalism, where subjects were brainwashed into believing that their king was literally chosen by God himself to rule over them, a king who failed to alleviate famine would usually experience massive amounts of civil unrest and/or rebellion yet in DPRK there have been no reports of any of those things. Really makes you think.

Oh you got me so good with some stupid picture. Keep eating propaganda by the spoonful. Its beyond obvious to people who dont have stragoi worms eating at their brains that those people in the photos are actors.

such convincing arguments
ok Holla Forums
show fucking proofs that this was because of general conditions in north korea and not because he was an off-the-map fugitive for months

Your bait could have worked if you didn't start out with such a pathetic 3rd grade tier lie.


No surprise, you lot have been useful idiots of plutocrats and fascists from the beginning.

get the fuck out Holla Forums faggot

I took the reply as implying that the people in the DPRK can't be having it nearly as bad as pol-fag alleges, since it shouldn't be possible to put down rebellion, even with the supposed level of brain-washing. But I dunno, could be wrong there.

Mskes me think how retarded your logic is.
Oh yeah sure a bunch of starving, afraid, and unarmed people are totally goin to revolt against an army with machineguns that will mow down everyone and their families.

Lefties are stupid as fuck. Im not surprised with why theyre surrounded by comunists and pedophiles.

But isn't the military also allegedly starving?

How can an entire country be starving for almost 60 years? You realize human beings can't survive without food, retard?

I dont have to do shit soy boy. I told you all my mother escaped and shot down your piece of shit narrative. Now youre all butthurt because youre all in a fantasy world . Do the world a favor and just walk into their country; no one will miss you.

I also never said i was from pol. I just saw a very stupid thread and commented on it. I remember one of you fat fuckers went to join isis and he became their cum pig. Please by all means join them too

...

...

Have you seen how thin as fuck a lot of them are? A lot of them starve. They put the ones who look the healthiest in public view. Of course you would believe propaganda photos over people who escaped. Absolute state of left logic.

Go live in north korea then.

My mom works at Nintendo.

lmao

Not bait. Your photo is also not an argument or debate. I remember visiting a friend in portland and you people were throwing your shit and then tried to say it never happened. Lie and deny thats all you do.

And yet you faggots are obsessed with antifa, just like you are obsessed with black cock. Basically proves that deep down you are scared of them, which is truly pathetic.

Implying i didnt see the video on youtube or heard people saying it on the street and it just trended. Peopless responses are getting more retarded holy shit lmao.

i never said i was obsessed or scared. Also im a gun owner so anyone who wants to play bikelock games gets shot in the face no fucks given at all. Im more obsessed with being an advocate in fighting against child sex trafficking while youre all larping about fighting false tyranny (yet you support NK. Hilfuckinglarious.

What youre all going to support raping kids next? LmAO

Which one are you Holla Forums? I feel like you are the girl looking one.

Wait nvm
youtu.be/9siALpqSSKw

Im not white; scroll up detective. By the way you guys are fat shaming now?

Gee what a surprise, places with massive populations have massive amounts of things going on in them. The reason there's not much sex trafficking in bumfuck Wyoming is because there's literally no one there to be trafficked.

He's probably some /r/The_Donald fag to be fair, some of the actual Holla Forums oldfags would actually support the DPRK over the US.

I'm not a fan of NK, but if you're going to talk shit at least make it believable.

This, however retarded they may be, Holla Forumsyps tend to have a believe-the-opposite-of-everything-the-media-says mentality (or at least they used to). Trump-cucks on the other hand tend to lap it up.

Bullshit, that's just propaganda. At the end of the day Holla Forumsyps are retarded racists who think Koreans are subhumans and the second a war broke out they would be spamming gore photos of dead North Korean civilians. Stop trying to overanalyse fascists.

A lot of people on 4/pol/ critically support the DPRK because they resist the "zog occupied government."

I wasn't doubting that the original existed, I doubted that the the translation was correct. Do you speak Korean? Because I have asked Koreans and they told me that the expression is a proverb and not racist. Either way, you are another disingenuous bastard that tries to twist and bend everything so it suits your narrative.
It's run by North Korean defectors who are being paid by the South Korean government, so maybe take it with a grain of salt.

It doesn't matter anyway, because your claim that the DPRK is racist has already been thoroughly debunked.

No they don't, and the second their Messiah launched attacks they'd be behind him.

Some good vibes after that Holla Forums dumpsterfire:

I think Ryomyong Street is a nice showcase for socialist urban housing in the 21st century. It is self-sustainable and designed for convenience, with facilities and stores in walking distance to the building.

Can you make it even more obvious that you are from r/The_Donald?

Those are the /r/The_Donald types, the people who like Charles Manson, SIEGE etc would side with the DPRK over the US.

Assad/Iran/Hezbollah/SSNP are probably the most popular anti imperialist groups with Holla Forumsyps but the DPRK is the most well liked one that is directly associated with the left.

What do you think about creating a big tent anti-imperialist front with some of these elements?

I don't agree with Holla Forumsyp racial views but honestly I'm down at this point, fighting the system is whats most important.

A couple of months ago, there was DPRK thread on 8/pol/ and 99,9% called them dirty commies, gooks, etc. and literally noone expressed sympathy towards them.

There used to be an anti-imperialist edge on Holla Forums, years ago, I would argue before 2014 even, and it's long gone.

Nice try Holla Forums, but please get the fuck out here with your Querfront shit. Fascists are not principled anti-imperialists, they just oppose internationalism/globalism/banks or whatever, Trump got a bunch of votes with anti-imperialist talking points and has not only retreated from every single one of these but has even cranked up imperialism.

You're talking about less than a half a dozen people in the world world dude. You've spent too much time on the internet.

Well I have actually always said Trump would just be another neocon, I am not trying to white knight the right or anything I am just saying there are factions that would be sympathetic to our point of view

I read Marx though. And stop saying Marxism when you're referring to Stalinism.

What do you think about antifa attacking Richard Spencer when he was protesting Trump's strikes on Syria?

Antifa is retarded, I have to say that from what I've seen American Antifa are neoliberal stooges, while European Antifa is definetely more anti-capitalist and anti-imperialist, with the exception of German Antifa obviously.

Also, I mean, it's not a united organization. Anybody can say he's Antifa and then do something retarded.

never knew that North Korean music was so C O M F Y

youtube.com/watch?v=UXxvEPqhVVw

About as convincing as this image.

youtube.com/watch?v=GmajuyY4EVI

...

rt.com/news/413204-trump-korea-naval-blockade/

tbh when it comes to anti DPRK propaganda it's hard to tell what is or isn't bait.

Yet liberals will keep insisting that the DPRK is the one at fault here. If this maritime blockade compromises fishing boats, it will just hurt the diet diversity of the North Korean population more.

based off rumors and rumblings from today, it seems the Trump national security team and admin are now convinced they need to carry out "preventative" strikes and that war with NK is unavoidable. Hence the overriding of Tillerson and Mattis on the issue. If true that's bad news all around and the Chinese need to openly nut up like they did this summer.

...

Source?

archive.fo/4kbQP
twitter.com/JBWolfsthal/status/941387260506923008
archive.is/BYG5X

All pretty recent stuff, but right now it's just rumor and hearsay

Wow, that really sounds great. The geothermal heating and cooling is a really big deal, very cheap and practical while cutting back on a major waste of energy.

archive.is/ukSnW
Good read on how the Norks would probably win a open war with the US

Stop using this dehumanizing term. You're doing the job of USA propagandists if you do.

In an open war, DPRK would still be obliterated, but they would kill at least half a million Americans in the process, which is too much for the USA to cope with. Hence there will be no war.

Good article, and it is correct about the artillery. I've read a book from a Belgian military expert who argued that artillery is still very underestimated in the 21st century, and has been neglected in favor of air superiority, but its strengths are obvious: You can basically shell an entire area for hours. This is something.

However, the article is based on the assumption that the USA will attack first, therefore causing anti-American resentment throughout the region. The author seems to forget that the US has always staged an alleged casus belli which is probably going to be a false flag, such as another Gulf of Tonkin incident. The USA had plans to even blow up a passenger ship to invade Cuba. With total control over mass media, those doubting such an incident will be discarded as conspiracy theorists. With the loyalty of a corrupt South Korean government, I can easily see them blowing up a huge cruise ship or a US military installation and blame the DPRK for it.

Hard to imagine Moon Jae-In signing off on this. From everything I've read, he's strongly opposed to any kind of escalation in the region.

Archiving this thread
web.archive.org/web/20171215085848/https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2265496.html

Is it just me or has the DPRK mastered vapourwave aesthetics? Like I feel like if you tweaked the lighting a little bit you could make some really aesthetic scenes

I think they are going for some sort of retro-scifi style - similar to what you'd see in the Star Trek movies I-VI. Also, the modern parts of Pyongyang remind me of a Pokémon city.

If you look at their sketches for future projects, they wanna go down that path even more, with more arcology and futurism.

given current pushback from both the SK and Japs, I doubt they would even be informed. It just highly depends on the nature of the incident and what the US plans to do


You wouldn't happen to have the title would you?

Or an Olympic Event

You have any links to those?

I checked my shelf, it's actually a Dutch/Israelian author, Martin van Creveld.

The Changing Face of War: lessons of combat, from the Marne to Iraq from 2007.


Pics related are some sketches North Korean architects drew up.

Those look like they're just scifi utopia, but they contain some interesting ideas. I like how the first pic shows a highly efficient use of land and vertical farming. I assume that much of the people's workplace, stores, and living areas are combined in those round pyramids. At least they show that DPRK scifi artists are thinking a lot about ecology and communism, as opposed to much of Western scifi art which is either modeled after Apple products (sleek, inhuman, featureless), or various kinds of grungy dystopia.

...

DPRK has just won the East Asian Women's Championship in football.

North Korean woman is forcefully detained in South Korea, appeals to the UN to send her home:
presstv.com/Detail/2017/12/14/545628/Asia-Pacific-Korea-UN-Human-Rights

thanks m8

wtf are those weapons
look like old panzerfausts

hmmm
think i prefer classic socialist realism, that stuff just reminds me of 1950s era "world of the future"

Look like kalashnikov variants with rifle grenade launchers mounted in the muzzle.

Grenade looks like a RPG-2 variant, maybe it's an RPG-2 and the launcher was created to utilize surplus stock.

Wish we had better photos of that tbh

they're chinese AK's with rifle grenades.
Which, exactly, i couldn't tell you.

Huh, I remember seeing these years ago, out of context. Had no idea they were done by a Korean architect. Pretty cool.

Also, found a source for these images and more.

metropolismag.com/ideas/arts-culture/the-future-of-architecture-according-to-a-north-korean-architect/

I thought Hawkeye socialized the south?

...

Left pic was published a year before first one, and if you look those are two different hair styles. Obviously Un wanted a cool unique 'Do but didn't want anyone to feel left out so he let them have a not as good one and kept the best one for himself.

lalkar.org/article/2776/the-present-situation-in-the-dprk

What is this from?
Asking for a friend.

Stay! Stay! Democratic People's Republic of Korea!

...

Explain to me how the DPRK can abolish the state in their current situation

Does anybody know anything about how Kim Jong Un's brother was moyduhed by some super secret D.P.R.K. agents?

I guess some things never change, you can never trust a stalinstache

...

I'd love to visit the DPRK. is it still possible for a US citizen? I know trump planned to outlaw travel to North Korea (Blatantly contrary to the UDHR). is there a way to see all the cool things you guys mention, or is it just the same tour they give to everyone? the one that there are 20 identical documentaries of on Youtube. about?

I know one company based in China does tours to the DPRK and they're all really varied. I'm planning to go on their next Victory Day tour which takes you up to Mt Paektu and they've got another tour where you can join in on a Juche study group. I mean… Yeah, private companies are bad juju but I still think it's worth it, given how much it contributes to the DPRK amidst all the sanctions. Unfortunately though, they don't take US citizens anymore. This was the group that took over the dude who was imprisoned and died.

Still, check them out. Young Pioneer Tours. They may reverse their position eventually if the talks between the US and the DPRK go well, now that they seem more willing to accept that nuclear arms do in fact exist. They also do lots of other pretty cool looking tours like to Stalin's hometown, to a Maoist commune in China, etc.

>North Korean defector questioned for possible National Security Act violations


english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/823370.html

Do you live in Vegas? Go to a casino or something and party with Dennis Rodman. I'm only half joking. Dennis will party with literally anyone; he's one of the few celebrity hedonists who isn't an elitist that only hangs out with other celebs. If you befriend him, maybe you can convince him to take to the DPRK. Don't be a dick and use Dennis exclusively to get into the DPRK; be a real friend because Dennis is very sensitive. I highly doubt he would actually take you because he usually goes alone, but it's not the most impossible thing ever, and Dennis is apparently still allowed to travel there.

No, they made it illegal this year

and by they, I mean the US made it illegal for its citizens

that's tragic man.

NK is probably the only country on earth that the US can't penetrate via its agents

So much so that Politico ran a story about how difficult it is for the US to gather intelligence there.
politico.com/story/2017/09/08/why-north-korea-is-a-black-hole-for-spies-242473

Not surprising
South Korea is an authoritarian hellhole that can easily match up to propaganda spun about North Korea

...

nytimes.com/2017/04/30/world/asia/north-korea-economy-marketplace.html
Socialist paradise m8s

Walking the same Path as Cuba what a shame

truly they should have stayed on the path

hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/north-korea
Under glorious Juche we could have this

wow

fuck off retard

fucking read the rest of the thread

...

nigga DPRK has a higher obesity rate than the puppet regime in the South
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index

SOMEONE PLEASE ARCHIVE THIS SHIT AND START A NEW THREAD

Archived.
archive.is/pRkxK

wait wtf, the post count isn't as high as I thought. no need for a new thread yet.

There are some wild assumptions in that article, mixed in with defector anecdotes from the 90s. Basically it does the following:

1.) Capitalist markets are conflated with stores and shops. The existence of supply and demand and diversification of consumer doesn't presuppose a capitalist market. The article argues that certain gadgets and installations, such as smartphones and department stores, are capitalism. It's pure association.

2.) Private market places in Pyongyang do exist, two. It's basically two big halls. What happens there? Citizens sell personal items, which are often goods they purchased in China, like shoes, clothes or jewelry. It's bringing some part of the outside world to Pyongyang. Means of production are not privately owned. Stores and consumer collectives are not privately owned. The market halls function as a forums for private citizens to exchange stuff in society where many things are scarce.

3.) One of the defectors quoted is something like a Kulak. They made money out of illegal market activity, which was cracked down upon, so they got upset and left.

4.) The so called "donju" are not a capitalist middle class (I like how everybody immediately think rising living standards and material wealth constitutes capitalism), they function as escrows for state property, to conduct business with other states. The state can't directly do business with China because of sanctions, it's a cover up. The article itself mentions that everything is still state property and that donju make donations. Tell me this, why would anybody make donations if he didn't get a profit out of it? These donju are middle men, for the state to undergo the sanctions. For a capitalist middle class you need petit bourgeoisie.

5.) The assumption that state industry is unproductive doesn't hold up to the reality of massive expansion of means of production conducted in 2017. Unless somebody wants to argue the DPRK builds factories so they can be dormant.

Of course you won't answer to this because you literally just googled "Markets in North Korea", "North Korea bad pictures" and "North Korea human rights" and shitposted this random stuff in this thread. Great comrade you are. The hilarious thing is the supposed negative pictures are not even that bad.

No one says this, try to answer with less emotion


that does not change what I have posted. I don't hate the DPRK, it has good aspects, but their is some shit about it also, we need to look at both

are you legitimate children?


Yes, south Korea is shit, but I don't think just referring to a chart that places Libya over Canada is a fair way to judge the superiority of a nation

"Looking at both sides" doesn't mean to be posting extremly biased anti-DPRK agitprop. These journalists don't know more than you or me, and by reading the article you posted it becomes quite clear that they just browsed 38north or watched a Lankov lecture on YouTube.

Human Rights Watch is actual shit though. Not only the al-Qaida thing, they recently called out China for violating the NAP by providing people healthcare. I'm not even joking:
twitter.com/ajitbirsingh/status/940940421366276096

thanks for the lucid reply, it's more then some of the emotional jump to conclusions that I've witnessed from some other kids in here

I just have a few concerns
to ask
Correct me If I'm wrong, but I was lead to believe that these shops are privately owned. Don't get me wrong here, state ownership does presuppose private distribution, however, wouldn't the creation of these small stores create a moneyed class? Some what less then optimal to have class conflict within your society imho
same goes for the "donju". You are right, they cannot be a "capitalist" class, since they do not own or command any "capital" per say, however their existence as a "separate, moneyed group" loyal to state business interests, sits bad for me personally in terms of "Socialist Paradises". It seems more like a group of opportunists cashing in off a state monopoly over productive forces to turn a buck.

To be a Kulak, he would have to own some kind of production force, In the USSR it was a farm. He would be best described as being a smuggler of sorts, which exists in Korea's unfortunately large black market setup.
Overall, the reality that North Korea is a command economy is what really puts me off. Government planners setting the pace for society along the lines of a general plan abiding by the laws of capital is problematic, why not go full Cockshott and introduce labor time accounting If society is not brought under a new totality, and holds partially to the logic of capitalism, then conflict is sure to arise between new classes forming under less then optimal conditions. Take for instance the allowance of small time service sector roles like chronicled in reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-change-insight/north-koreas-black-market-becoming-the-new-normal-idUSKCN0SN00320151029
this is the start of new tensions between the state and these petit-bourgeois service men.

Well that's slightly unnecessary comrade

they certainly offer a different reality then what has been shown so far, and that's all I want to here, not step on peoples toes meaninglessly, but keep us aware of differing narratives on something we all are still learning about, that being the incredibly reclusive DPRK, we need to pick through the bullshit better.

that's my hot take, feel free to correct anything I might have missed

I did'nt see it as agitprop, perhaps one of us is mistaken.
I agree that there are far too many hit pieces against the north, though to say all journalists are full of shit is a little presumptuous, no? Especially when the only news that seems acceptable in your eyes seems to be positive, while all negative press is just wrong because.

I agree slightly. Like every thing, HRW has it's biases, but it is not accredited by so many pundits for no reason. The picture he linked of this "violating NAP" incident also seems to be relatively balanced. The article itself (though it has some stinkers in it) is not all that bad, and gives some valid concerns hrw.org/news/2017/12/13/china-minority-region-collects-dna-millions

I'm definitely not as well informed as comrade OP, but I do have a 15GB DPRK folder full of cool shit.
I will now dump some tight pics as my humble contribution to this great thread.

Look at all this delapidated, useless shit!

These are clearly all actors who will get executed if they don't smile. What a put on!

Work kinda sucks anywhere, even in the People's Republic!

No, that would be outright illegal. Maybe you can find this on a smaller scale in the more rural areas but definitely not in Pyongyang or other areas where state power is strong. The stores or enterprises which aren't socialistic are those that are joint ventures. For example, the smartphone production is a joint venture with an Egyptian company. Would you blame them for doing this? As I said before, it is impossible to produce everything on your own as a small country, the USSR doesn't exist anymore and China is a revisionist hellhole, so what option do you have but to make deals with capitalist entities when you do want to provide your citizens with a 21st century style of living? The important thing to think about is: Are they on the the capitalist path or on the socialist path? I fail to see how they embrace capitalism just because of a few joint-ventures with China. They have no choice. If there were no sanctions, the DPRK could openly sell their resources and create revenue to buy the necessary tools and goods to create their own, socialist run enterprises which produce smartphones. I will concede that in these new stores, it is very likely that the managers have more freedoms and are not bound by the Taean Work System - yet they do not extract surplus value, and we have no reason to believe that the Taean Work System doesn't work in industry and agriculture. Again, it is important to know that North Korean economy is still 80% self-sufficient (looking at the foreign trade and investment data) - and all the means of production within the 80% are run in a socialist way.

Nobody knows anything about this. Why do they donate to state projects? They do look like middle men to me. They probably got their money by smuggling shit, and then give it the state for building projects. It's the North Korean way to undermine sanctions. There is no other explanation for the recent building boom in Pyongyang, but it is definitely conducted in no private way: Many workers at the building sites are part of militas or even the army.

Planning isn't done by three people in a room. Labor unions are incorporated in this, and thousands of people are as well, as they were in the USSR. Labor time accounting is something to be implemented in the future, but you do realize that the DPRK was handing out labor vouchers before the 90s, right? The problem with labor time accounting in the current situation is that it doesn't account for qualitative labor. If you mean computerization, Kim Jong-il said "the fool in the 21st century is someone who can't use a computer". The up-to-date workplaces in the DPRK have computers, this includes computerized planning.

I don't know what the guy saw, but as someone who went to North Korea I must heavily disagree. Advertisement is practically non-existent. I don't know what the guy saw. And yes, I don't speak Korean, but I know what a propaganda slogan and what advertisment is.

This might be true, but they are no friends of the state. And the DPRK is ideologically massively cohesive, there is no way they could undermine the system as long as the DPRK stays resiliant.

Well you did walk in here with a bit of a bait, come on now.

True, but I have posted pictures of less developed areas myself before. When I post shiny pictures I do so to get some good vibes out, nothing more. By the way, I don't know if you've seen pics of other Asian countries, besides maybe Japan you can find similar pictures pretty much everywhere in Asia. In Laos it's much worse. I've personally seen stuff in Thailand that's much, much worse than these pictures. You can find pictures like that in China, Taiwan, or even South Korea.


The thing is, even if they approach the topic with good faith, they don't know more than me or you or any fool that uses the internet that has access to the stuff we know for a fact. None of these journalists has been given insight into North Korea.

I agree, but Human Rights Watch is a special type of trash. I have no problem to engage with Amnesty International though.

I think it is weird as fuck to express concern about collecting DNA data when people walk into a doctor's office and their medical record is saved. The guy might be a Twitter idiot, but what he says is pretty much true.

Another assortment of cool stuff. Be right back.

Just as an addendum, if you want them to go full Cockshott, translate Towards a New Socialism into Korean and e-mail it to them. I'm not joking.

That monument is aesthetic

This is literally the most meaningless statement about any subject. "Things are not 100% good or bad." Totally obvious crap which is passed off as some sort of wisdom and neutral view of the situation.

thanks for responding so quickly m8
just a few concerns here

Fear of persecution
This is what sits uneasy with me, I agree with you, they need to do what they need to under sanctions, like Cuba. However, I believe this taints the whole scheme to an extent, Similarly to how party apparatchiks in the USSR lead to it's demise

I'd like to know how much athority is held by all sectors of the planning system. This interests me, do you have any recommended reading on the topic?
In some instances, but I don't see how this changes my point?
Slightly idealistic m8. class conflict is meant to reach a conclusion, and having it around is the proverbial uranium to Schrödinger's cat.

Your right, I steeped in with a a sense of smugness, I wouldn't want someone to do that to me so I should refrain from doing it to others.

It was more a fear of private collection of information.


I just might


Because praising North Korea as being a social ecologists paradise for having some hydroponic experiments truly indicates the most objective narrative.

4th of July? More like Fuck Off July!

Hey, user with the big DPRK folder full o' cool shit - you wouldn't happen to have any music would you?

I only ask because I've been on a 3 year old search for a specific version of this one North Korean song. It's from one of their revolutionary operas and is called "눈이 내린다," which I believe means "Snow Falls." There used to be a version of it sung in full by the State Merited Chorus (best rendition of the song imo) on Youtube, but the account that posted it was terminated and the video never reuploaded afterwards. It's a long shot, but maybe you or somebody in this thread managed to save the song before it was deleted? Sorry if this is too off topic, I always get an urge to listen to it this time of year. It really is a beautiful song.

You wish, imperialist ;)

Sorry, comrade. Only pictures, I'm afraid :( Here's some music pics to make up for it.

I'd also love to hear it, though. If you happen to find it drop it over here!

I forgot - here's a vocal version I managed to find on what looks like some North Korea friendly website in case anyone wants to listen:

dprktoday.com/index.php?type=48&no=8791
It's nice, but not quite what I'm looking for.

Out and about.

That's okay, user. I wasn't expecting anyone to have it. Thanks for the pictures, though :)
I just posted a link if you're interested in hearing it.

I've considered asking the guy who runs the "Songs from the DPRK" channel if he's familiar with it, but he doesn't seem too active these days.

If it were up to ol' Fatso this would all be concentration camps!

i like how smooth their roads are
where i live the roads are all old, fading and filled with potholes

lots of the travel videos I've seen of DPRK showed bumpy/noisy roads, especially the highways. unless they've been repaving a lot recently, they don't have a lot of money to spend on roads.

bbc.com/news/world-asia-42459670?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

New sanctions, tailored to cut off 90% of the DPRKs energy lifeline. Of course Russia and China willingly went along with it, as it was to be expected.

Can we count on the PRC smuggling coal and such?

this is the real question.

...

Fucking capitalist pigs. Wanna have access to unbiased information on North Korea? Tsk… too bad if you're from the Working Class, my prole.

On YouTube they have banned several DPRK state media channels. This doesn't even hurt people DPRK sympathizers, but also researchers and academics who don't have any other source.

49043718 dimensional chess from socialist China

The absolute fucking DELUSION in this thread is appalling. ☭TANKIE☭s need to get the bullet too.

>>>/leftpol/
>>>/twitter/

t. believes South Korean tabloids and defectors who can't stop changing their stories

those "state media channels" were created and maintained by people that had no connection to the government and just found these videos online themself.

I would imagine the broadcasts were captured from South Koreans and put online. A year or two ago, someone on the chans had a live stream. It had all of the typical propaganda you would associate with a dictatorship. Kim was given the tour of important buildings and infrastructure. Military people swung their arms in unison as they sang nationalist songs for Kim. People fell over themselves to salute Kim belting out their undying loyalty before shaking his hand. It's not something you would see on air in a normal country.

Without sounding like "4D chess": What exactly should they have done instead? They already managed to tone down the worst proposals.

Think of it like this: If China and Russia refuse to respect the sanctions, what other solution would the war hawks around Trump have other than to go ahead with a pre-emptive strike? As long as new sanctions get passed (after stalling or watering them down), "peace" can be maintained - if only temporarily.
It may be slightly worrying though (or positive, depending on your point of view). What if they're doing it not merely to postpone the inevitable, but because they actually need more time to prepare? If they really didn't care about North Korea (According to Tillerson they received guarantees in case of war from China anyways), why are they willing to go ahead with appeasement?

germans, americans and others as well, wherever you find a DPRK friendship group. spreading that stuff in SK is illegal, i doubt they'd do that.

StimmeKoreas is offical, Koryo Media is offical, Uriminzokkiri is offical, exploreDPRK is from a friendship organization associated with the state (half-official).

Kim Yo-jong best waifu.

There is literally nothing hinting at racialism in the DPRK constitution.

seeing as juche is accepted here can i finaly post here without getting banned?

NO
LEFTYPOL IS DELONIST CREW

>>>/facebook/

not my point. please tell me what makes italian fascism Holla Forums unfriendly but juche fine.

Simple: juche is socialist but fascism is not.

Told the US to fuck off?

that really is an amazing monument

Song Name?

The song name is "내 이름 묻지 마세요"

Music video is here.
youtube.com/watch?v=dXTRANvdouQ

I think you mean the DKP? I am member of the SDAJ, could you elaborate on that? I didn't know that and I think it's very interesting!

bump

OK, since this thread is cycled and it's so valuable, we need to keep track of the archives as educational material.
This is the most recent archive of the thread, with all of the first posts intact:
archive.fo/pRkxK
It has 459 posts. When the posts at the beginning of this cycle start to get close to we need to make a new archive snapshot.

Handing out copies of mein kompf is a good thing?

nah I don't think that even happened

No, I meant the KPD.
k-p-d-online.de
DKP is shit in my state. KPD had always good relations with the DPRK and sends delegations to the country from time to time.


That's laughable bullshit.


New 38North article talks about growing markets in the DPRK but has no sources besides a 10 year old dissertation about the economy in the early 2000s:
38north.org/2017/12/pward122117/#_ftnref2
Leaks apparently confirm that managers of enterprises sideline the party in terms of administrative decisions - the article claims that this proves the weakening of the Taean Work System, but doesn't explain how - the Taen Work System doesn't mean "the party offical tells you what to do" (only an anti-communist moron would think that) but that all management cadres are part of it. The managers are also elected. The author makes out this dichotomy between a state-owned cooperative and the Taen Work System. Has he been smoking or is he deliberately dishonest im trying to obfuscate the situation?

Furthermore, let's check how the article is written:
Totally not conjecture. Also, one of the "sources" is a quick Google search of a North Korean news site how often it mentions certain words.

Pretty much the only people who don't agree that North Korea is a total authoritarian shithole are ☭TANKIE☭s and shills for North Korea.

Tell me, why should I disbelieve the wealth of sources denouncing North Korea and seemingly exposing it's abhorrent conditions and system, and why should I believe some people who are either 14 year old weirdos or PR employees for NK?

If your answer is some easily staged propaganda pictures, don't bother.

Hi Bat'ko

No matter how much diarrhea you pile up, it's still diarrhea. Same for your "wealth" of sources.

Kai, is that you?

From wich state do you come from? Why is it shit there?

t. FBI

You know it's my party, iam interested in his is critisism

clearly you need to know where he lives for that.

If he says its bad in his state? Good I can change the question. Why is it bad, in the state you are living in?

theduran.com/truth-north-korea-booming/


I really doubt South Korea's Hyundai mega-corporation has a pro communist bias

I'm from Bavaria. The DKP is shit there because the local chapter actively encouraged people to not vote for their own party as that would take votes away from DieLinke. It's literally the worst form of reformism/lesser evilism. However, the chapter got dissolved by the federal committee in summer this year and the party returned to a more classical Marxist-Leninist/anti-imperialist platform in the process. Of course, I endorse the renewed course of the DKP. Does the guy from the DKP know if they still ban the people from the Netzwerk kommunistische Politik?

Truth Commission reveals history of Korean War: U.S.-South Korea carried out massacres of civilians

iacenter.org/korea/skorea070608/

This is actually kinda big but of course nobody cares.

another good article about it to show to people
medium.com/@wolf.aldrich/the-50-s-in-south-korea-what-happened-60f629ac3272

overall, the USA killed about 4 million Koreans in the Korean genocide.

Shit's about to go down in Iran; I can feel it.

Just a shame it's going to swing Liberal and not Leftist.

You gotta start somewhere.

offtopic and also unlikely. western media always hypes this shit up.

when it gets to 2009 levels then shit might go down in Iran, right now it's nothing much

Go China sell that oil boi

I don't think so

Voice of Korea: 2017, Year of Victory and Glory [English]
youtube.com/watch?v=L52aa6_uQ5g

their seems to be people much more skilled in statesmanship then Kim jong un in the politburo at the moment, or at least have more experience, why is it that he was put in power over these other gentlemen while not having held any prior positions in the North Korean state?
Most other examples of Politburos from failed 20th century experiments tended to favor older veterans of the state.

Well, those experiments did fail, so it may be a good thing they didn't hand over the ship to a veteran politician. And I say that as an M-L. I'm not under any delusion that the Kim family doesn't have special privilege compared to the rest of the government, because they clearly do even though the West overstates the extent of that privilege, but there were people within the Kim family with far more political experience than Kim Jong-Un who could have become leader but didn't. In that regard, Kim Jong-Un becoming leader is a reflection of the DPRK government taking to heart the failures of past M-L states, and Kim Jong-Un has been doing a very good job as leader.

He doesn't seem to be the most active leader either. How much work is his, and how much work is the presidium? And why then is he their and not one of the more experienced elders in the politburo?

*there

The policies of his tenure have been quite good and living standards have risen. I wouldn't know much of that is the doing of of Kim versus how much of that is because of the people around him, nor would many westerners have the means to know that. Correlation is not causation, but the DPRK is in better shape under Kim Jong-un than they were under Jong-il.

The policies of his tenure have been quite good and living standards have risen. I wouldn't know much of that is the doing of of Kim versus how much of that is because of the people around him, nor would many westerners have the means to know that. Correlation is not causation, but the DPRK is in better shape under Kim Jong-un than they were under Jong-il.>>2335139

Kim Jong Un has to stop his regime's brutal oppression of North Korean gamers. And he has to stop right fucking now.

...

Pyongyang Racer is the only videogame the working class needs.

Maybe they're working on the assumption that served America well - international law doesn't mean anything any more.

Facebook tier meme posting.

Not a great meme, but nevertheless, virtually all of the components of modern smartphones (operating systems, transistors, microchips, multitouch) were developed in the state sector with public financing. Capitalist incentives have contributed a fraction to technological progress.

these have to be elaborate bait

...

Happy New Year Juche 107 (2018) from North Korea! [English]
youtube.com/watch?v=0QpkSpTCyDc

No argument found. I guess this is the intellectual level of the Right.

Uh, the transistor was made at Bell Labs dude.

A point people I've discussed NK with have brought up is that even if they only seek to use the technology as a deterrent against being invaded and for nuclear energy, they are likely to sell the technology to their allies or random shitholes, is this likely/unlikely?

i believe the argument that NK is racialist is not because of the constitution but the propaganda / literature / internal party-track newspapers, etc.

see for yourself in the pages of the rodong sinmun:

web.archive.org/web/20150425054931/http://kcna.co.jp/item/2006/200604/news04/28.htm

"A strange farce to hamstring the essential characters of the Korean nation and seek for 'multiracial society' is now being held in south Korea. In this regard Rodong Sinmun today runs a signed commentary, which censures the farce as an unpardonable bid to negate the homogeneity of the nation, make south Korea multiracial and Americanize it. To deny the peculiarity and advantages of the homogeneous nation now that dominationism and colonialism are posing a threat to the destiny of weak nations is a treacherous act of weakening the spirit of the nation, the commentary says, and goes on: The south Korean pro-American traitorous forces advocating the theory of 'multiracial society' are riffraffs who have not an iota of national soul, to say nothing of the elementary understanding of the view on the nation and social and historic development."

It's good if they give it to allies.

Secondly, the argument goes that if the DPRK is a far-right state (I'd say it's a hybrid) then the official constitution is the last place to look to understand what it's about. In Nazi Germany, the Weimar constitution stayed into effect until 1945 – modified primarily by the Enabling Act. Didn't mean anything.

Fascist states also tend to express their propaganda less on doctrinal texts (when they even have them) but aesthetics and charismatic storytelling, because the extreme right is a romantic and anti-materialist way of thinking about the world. The extreme right has never produced a Marx, Lenin or Mao. The main text for the Nazi regime was Hitler's autobiography; not the most compelling theory in the world.

And I hear a lot about Juche but despite the defenders of it, the only explanation I've heard for it is "self-reliance." But that's so vague as to be meaningless. The bulk of what the DPRK seems to promote is the charismatic personality cult and the leader's life story and that of his family. Does Kim Jong Un have a theoretical body of work?

Okay I'm done.

How is self-reliance vague and meaningless?

Maybe not Kim Jong-un, but Kim Il-sung certainly did have theory, as well as Kim Jong-il, though I've only read Il-sung. The point of Juche is to apply Marxism-Leninism such that it can fit within Korean culture. The idea is that Koreans are not ready to leave behind Great Man Theory in favor of historical materialism and as the socialist process develops in the future, they can put less emphasis on the so-called cult of personality. Who knows how true it is that the Korean worldview is not ready for historical materialism - I'm personally skeptical of it - but the fact is that their commitment to socialist self-reliance has slowed them to thrive in isolation despite how much a shit hand they've been dealt. Juche would not work anywhere else and I don't know if it's the only thing that could work in the DPRK, but it's working.

>>>/leftpol/8414
Cracks me up how it's been about two months since this general was created, deleted, and reposted. Yet leftcoms and anarkiddies still can't present any argument to back their wild take.

Yeah. If anything a tacit ok to the US.


The 2nd pic looks like something from Fallout 4.

Why the hell would you believe anything Tillerson says?

Juche doesn't mean self-reliance. That's just a popular interpretation. Juche means "subject", and was originally designed to "subject" in the texts of Marx and Hegel.
Kim Jong-un has written little but Kim il-Sung and Kim Jong-il have written dozens of books. Please don't poison the well.

Has anyone else watched the NYT North Korea documentary? It's quite interesting actually. Of course, Nicholas Kristof is a bumbling fool who provides really banal commentary, but aside from that its nice to see the high-quality footage and interviews with average Koreans.

youtube.com/watch?v=wabh-YAnDBw

I'll list a couple other things I noticed, but I would love for other anons to contribute here.

1. The filmmakers go to a factory and speak with the manager, but don't address its daily functionings beyond mentioning that it's a communist live-in factory. No mention of the Taean system or anything of the sort.

2. They note that the economy has improved immensely since the mid-aughts despite tightening sanctions, but provide no explanation. The reality is probably that they are unable to see past their own ideology and grasp that North Korea has been able to grow economically without capitalism, and see it instead as a mystery

3. They make a bunch of baseless claims throughout the movie. Someone should definitely write them down. One I distinctly remember is that no one outside of Pyongyang would speak freely to them.

If anything, this film improved my perception of the DPRK. They clearly have no illusions about the threat the US poses and have pride in their country's ability to persist against all odds.

Could you explain this a bit more?

I can't stand this shit, it's just too damn cringeworthy and it's in practically every documentary on the DPRK. The footage is indeed very nice, so thank you for that.

...

There was a military and economic cooperation between Prussia and imperial Japan by the end of the 19th century, modernizing and industrializing Japan. Due to this exchange, Japan came in contact with a lot of German philosophy, but due to the long isolation of Japanese language, struggled to translate most of modern philosophical terms. In 1887, the word shutai was coined and used for "Subject" in the writings of Hegel and Marx. Due to colonialism and massive Japanese influence on the Korean language this word appeared as "Juche" in Korean translations of Marx as well.

Juche means that the subject is men, the proletariat is the revolutionary subject, while men as a whole is the post-revolutionary subject once exploiting classes have been abolished: A Marxist knows that the bourgeoisie is however just a mirror of capital itself, therefore, socialism means not only the liquidation of the bourgeoisie, but also the self-abolition of the proletariat, when the subject becomes men itself.


Growth in many undeveloped areas in 2016 and 2017 has been enormous so far, sure there is still work to be done, but it's looking good so far.

So, are all your arguments based on what the DPRK "seems like" to you?

Don't expect anyone to take you seriously, save perhaps for the /r/socialism SJW dumbasses

pick one and only one

Is there anywhere I can read about Juche as a theory, maybe the writings of the original Kim or anything like that

These are all I have. You can get everything Kim Il Sung ever wrote from an English language DPRK site but I can't remember where.

It took some searching but I finally found it
naenara.com.kp/en/politics/?leader1 3

gowans.wordpress.com/2007/03/03/understanding-north-korea/

Reminder, and bump.

...

...

The US government isn't always lying, I don't think they'd mince words about NK, its not like they need to actively lie in the sense of their foreign policy objectives in North Korea aside from saying the war is about "freedom"

holy fuck you are gullible

It never hurts to be prepared for all eventualities.

businessinsider.com/tillerson-mattis-trump-north-korea-strike-2018-1

Do you really think North Korea is going to get out of this unscathed? The yanks are thinking about going for a "Bloody Nose" strategy, one which would aim to dismantle North Korea's nuclear armament.

Comrade Kim better unload the entirety of the DPRK's nucular arsenal the moment the US flies one of their gay little drones over their airspace, no pussyfooting around.

Uhm, the DPRK can actually retaliate. Are they retarded? At this point the South Korans should throw every American out of their country if they care even a little bit about their own well-being

it's just talk, dude. it's impossible for them to take out DPRK's nukes.

How can you say that? They're contemplating it.

They're bullshitting, do you literally believe everything Trump says?

I have an immense fear of being fucking nuked. I am on the paranoid side, hopefully more brazen and intelligent heads than I will fuck up the US and not get us all killed.

That's a really weird fear to have tbqh famalam

I'd literally die wasting away from disease. At least I would be cognizant and be able to do other shit when I'm suffering. It might be weird, but it's not a weird fear.

Rather die

Wait a second. I can be an absolute monarch and have commies love me by just using communist icons and terms?

Fuck me, I am in. This left-right divide and conquer strategy from the Westerners really is the best population control mechanism ecer created.

No you can't.

most jewish post I ever read

you are a monarchist ih denial
you like eating shit if they call it asomething else

classcuck

...

...

libertyhangout.org/2017/07/stop-calling-north-korea-a-monarchy-it-has-never-been-one/

I don't see how a modified version of Juche wouldn't work in the US. It would fit very well with the Hollywood-perpetuated mythology of the rugged self-reliant individual.

Just the very first paragraph on that section and it already is utter garbage.

Is DPRK really "dude weed lmao" friendly or is this just a myth?

Well at least they recognize that it isn't a monarchy.

If only there were an American celebrity supportive of Juche who could put socialism in a package that Americans have the capacity to comprehend. It's like, the Red Scare did so much to hurt socialism in the U.S., and we need to… rebound from that damage.

#BasketballDiplomacy

The DPRK Needs to deal with the fact that it continues to enforce Anti-Women Anti-LGBT Gender societal and social norms and admit that it needs to take steps to elevate more women and LGBT Individuals to seats of power within the DPRK

I sure hope so. I've been trying to use that as an entryism tactic on my stoner friends.

Agreed, but it does seem minor in the face of other pressing concerns.

Martial law is hard work

The DPRK has great policies for women, and lots of women's representation in government.

Happy birthday 2 days ago Wise and Supreme Leader!

They grow hemp for industrial and infrastructure purposes (it helps stabilize railbeds). The country is full of ditchweed, rural people smoke it, the government doesn't care.

happy birthday KJU!

God I'm glad this thread was made

checked

Trips confirm

youtube.com/watch?v=xGIndKDBjyg

Comrade Joe documentary on jewtube with an absolutely buttblasted comment section, enjoy gomrades.

i fucking love it!

i can tell you to grow up

deluded idiot, the internet is a capitalist propaganda machine. yes you CAN look up whatever you want, but this is the same liberal logic as saying that ANYONE can become a boss! the cold hard truth however is that most people use the internet to eat up neoliberal propaganda from youtube/vice/buzzfeed etc.

and the us

You do know this is a complete lie right?

What is? What interest does Vice have to spread pro-DPRK propaganda?

So state controlled media is more trustworthy than NGO research?

See:

Also:
>In the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Handicap International assists the Korean Federation for the Protection of the Disabled (KFPD) to advance the equal opportunities, rights and involvement of people with disabilities as active citizens in their own country.

handicap-international.us/north_korea

>The ICRC, in cooperation with the Red Cross Society and the Armed Forces' Military Medical Bureau of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea has opened a new physical rehabilitation centre in Pyongyang for both military and civilian patients.

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NjN2ohtwOBAJ:https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/news-release/2009-and-earlier/north-korea-news-240406.htm

You don't hear any bullshit about the DPRK sending disabled people to camps or sending them out of Pyongyang from these people, and they are definitely not "state controlled"

...

nytimes.com/2018/01/14/us/politics/military-exercises-north-korea-pentagon.html
Are you guys worried about the DPRK yet? It seems like it's going to happen.

Holy shit they were truly terrified of communism. What happened?

Stop with the Holla Forums-tier alarmism. KJU says the missiles guarantee peace, this is just the imperialist screaming and throwing a fit about it.

revisionism.

it/they ruined everything

If we aren't prepared to do the same to ensure the success of our revolution then there is no end to capitalism

They developed a new phone.
exploredprk.com/news/new-model-mobile-phone-jindalle/

Can you imagine how far they will get they have normal access to resources?
I was listening to a BBC podcast and they had an expert on who regularly visits NK. Casually regular people always point out that meme image of the two Koreas at night as proof the north must be backwards and he has to explain that it is actually quite the contrary, they just focus their resources heavily on the military and elsewhere.

holy fuck if this really works i'll shit my fucking pants

People always make stupid predictions about wars but the actual thinking from some of the army was that the airforce was going to win it 100% and sure it was decisive and inflicted big losses on very favorable terrain but they didn't grind Iraq completely to a halt, didn't take out command and control like they thought they did and most noticeably were very bad at finding Saddam's mobile SCUD launchers so in a sense they had a harder war than they thought they would. Recently i listened to a former US commander talk and he said that in case of war they would ave a really hard time and would be desperate to prevent the fall of Seoul in the first 2-3 weeks until they could bring an overwhelming amount of hardware on the peninsula.
tbh NK is much better suited for predictions like that.

...

They dress children up as soldiers and officers. They prop up their failed State by having everyone be part of the military.

So where are all the people? A country of 20 million, and its capital is empty. You see a few of the NK upper class or families of high ranking officers.

How do the people in the villages live? They probably live in mud huts and all they get is State propaganda about how NK is great and that it's winning a war against the US and that the rest of the world is a shithole, while they themselves have a slice of heaven.

This fucking thread is literally "lets pretend we're r/communism". DPRK is a failed shithole State run by control and fear out of 1984, ruled by a despotic dictator and his friends.

If life there is so great why do people literally risk their lives to defect? This guy said "fuck it, I will leave DPRK or die."
theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/22/north-korean-defectors-daring-escape-caught-on-video

Wasn't this disproven? Read the thread you illiterate shithead.

I don't care about any of that. America's empire must fall.

I did this in HS.

...

No, it wasn't, you dumb fuck.

It's you who needs to read it, cause it hasn't been disproven. You just assumed it was because of all the pro-DPRK propaganda.


America's empire won't fall by supporting an oppressive totalitarian State that is fighting imperialism in words only. North Korea can't do shit with their wood-powered cars.


America is a third-world shithole full of brainwashed idiots. How is that a defense?


North Korea doesn't even call itself communist or socialist.
Those are liberal SJWs LARPing as anarchists. Try again, kid.

Stop pulling shit out of your ass. The name of the North Korean constitution is literally "Socialist Constitution of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea".
And people on r/communism are liberal SJWs larping as Marxist-Leninists.

Next time try writing a better bait.

I might piss off some ☭TANKIE☭, but isn't juche a turd positionist belief. Now of course it doesn't consider itself a turd positionist belief. But it resembles a turd positionist ideology almost completely.

i might piss off some liberals, but isn't your post a liberal belief? now of course you don't consider it a liberal belief. but it resembles a liberals ideology almost completely.

the funny thing about my reply is that unlike your faggotry i'm actually right, now cry me a river about how i have to explain shit and bite yourself in the ass, faggot little libshit.

the "nationalism" part is debatable. Show examples of neo-nazism and antisemitism in the DPRK, please.

I thought you were a serious anarkiddie until this gave away the parody, good job comrade.

Guess which city this is.

Wow can't believe they built a whole palace just for propaganda the british are sickening

That city looks fake and uninhabited to me.

Indeed it looks very fake.

Yes, because of a lack of fuel imports they have to get creative and powered their vehicles with coal. To think that kind of materiel can match the imperialist military power is sheer stupidity.

mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/poverty-stricken-north-koreans-ride-9761881

blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/how-north-korea-fuels-its-military-trucks-with-trees/

rfa.org/english/news/korea/charcoal-powered-vehicles-make-a-comeback-in-north-korea-12092016160533.html

The difference is you can visit London without restrictions. Hell, I could get a 9 euro ticket and fly there tomorrow if I wanted to. Once there, I can walk around freely to any part of the country without a tour guide.

If I want to visit the DPRK I have to go through specialised travel agencies and then get a guided.

You guys chose the wrong hill to die on. I wonder when the inevitable happens, and DPRK either collapses or gets invaded, and we see what has really been going on inside the country will you guys claim it's imperialist lies, much like Holla Forumsyps claim the concentration camps and Nazi horrors are all Jewish lies.

Holy fuck, when will the DPRK intervene to remove their dystopian Anglo regime?

NK is in a war of extermination right now, I know this is hard to understand from your comfy suburb in a big US city but at least try to wrap your mind around that fact.

Not really having the time to reply in detail, but can I simply ask you a question? Why do you get such a hard on for the DPRK being denied their fuel? They don't have enough oil themselves, just coal. Wouldn't every other country suffer from similar consequences if it would be denied of oil? Why do you froth your mouth over imperialism doing this shit, forcing the average North Korean to suffer? Why do you defend the UK, one of the bigger imperialist capitalist powers? Genuine question.

This

damn shitposting flag

I didn't know that stating facts is 'having a hard-on'.

They would.
Again, you have to misrepresent and strawman.

My point is that due to lack of resources they cannot even hope to match the firepower or strength of their enemies. So why even try?

It shows the blatant disregard for the lives of the actual people of the DPRK. It is clear to everyone that DPRK cannot win this war, yet they spend money on arming themselves, developing weapons and having a nuclear program. They should abandon their militaristic wet dream because it isn't doing them any good. But to have people live in a repressed regime because of ideology and 'pride' is ridiculous.

Kim Jong Un spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on importing fine wine, spirits and cheeses. Is that the behaviour of a responsible leader who has the best interest of his countrymen in mind?

You still haven't said how most of the North Koreans live. What are the hard numbers and data on the quality of life of people outside of Pyongyang. Their working conditions, their working hours, types of jobs, do they have protection, how is the access to healthcare.

Why do you enjoy seeing North Koreans live in a repressed regime? You enjoy the ability to talk to me online from your country. You can also come visit me if you'd like. You enjoy many things that you seem happy to deny the North Koreans because 'they're fighting imperialism'. You sit in your comfortable living room in the first world, eating food from around the world, enjoying many things North Koreans don't have, then you come here and defend their regime blindly.

I care about people and their conditions. The fact is we just don't know how it is for North Koreans because it's all kept a secret by their government. You take this as a sign that they're protecting paradise on Earth, I take it as a sign that they're hiding something. Guess it's in a state of superporition, it is both paradise and hell, only objective and unbiased observation can tell us which it is. I wonder when that will happen.

How am I defending it? They were joking that London streets are empty because it's lies, etc. All I said was that I can actually travel there and see for myself, and so can anyone else. People from London can move in and out freely and tell me themselves. They can go online and email me and tell me. These kinds of things are not possible with/in the DPRK. Of course, UK is a neoliberal shithole and just by virtue of being a State it is by nature violent and oppressive. I was merely contrasting the availability of information about the two countries, that's it. Just because I think North Korea is shit, doesn't mean I think UK or any other capitalist country is great, that's a false dichotomy.

But personally, if I had to choose between UK and DPRK, I would choose the UK. Wouldn't you? Oh wait, you /are/ choosing to live in Europe over DPRK, every single day.


Because Kim Jong Un and Kim Jong Il haven't heard of realpolitik. Kim Jong Un keeps threatening nuclear war like a fucking retard, instead of playing the game of geopolitics, halting the nuclear program so that some sanctions can be lifted. Yeah, guess fucking what, DPRK is being bullied by stronger States, that much is obvious. But instead of being a dumbass Kim Jong Un can realise it's a fight he cannot win and play ball *for the sake of this people*.

Who's talking about overthrowing the DPRK? But why does Un have to continue doing what he's doing especially when he sees that the DPRK keeps getting sanctioned more and more? Why not change his gameplan a little bit? DPRK cannot win any war it fights, that's a fact.

In this case it's a legit question. Cause listening to the ☭TANKIE☭ talk about it he thinks it's way better than any other (capitalist) country on the planet. So why not go live there? He has the freedom to leave his country and relocate. But then we wouldn't have him spreading DPRK propaganda on Holla Forums. ;)

You're suggesting that kim gets overthrown because he isn't advancing socialism well enough for you. After all, the only way true socialism can be brought about is by destroying people we deem to be dictators. Nobody will win in a war against the DPRK, especially not the korean people, so try explaining why you hate north korea please.

Every single post of you indirectly implies that it's somehow their own fault and that they are ought to make oil out of thin air. Let's see how your anarchist commune fares without food or oil - it doesn't? Socialism BTFO again!

First off that's toxic defeatism and we might as well all become SocDems if that would be true. While they are outgunned, they still achieved a nuclear draw which makes them practically unassailable. There is nothing the US can do right now except sanctions, which hurt them, but can't topple them. They are growing and they've been through way worse. In 1994 the situation was bad, really bad, and I would not have been particulary optimistic back then, but right now there is plenty of reasons for optimism. Why undermine it? There are still problems, yes, but you can read the WPK congress protocols and you'll see that they are aware of them and work on it.

In this very post, you literally call for the disarmament of the Korean working class and their revolution. I don't know what to say to that. You are certainly not my comrade.

Kim Jong-un despite gaining a few pounds to look older doesn't eat all the grain or whatever. A nice bottle of wine for the North Korean leadership does not equal billions of dollars of surplus value stolen by porky in capitalist countries. Furthmore, there is one day every month where the highest functionaries of the DPRK are forced to work in steel factories or fields.

That's a pretty fucking high expectation. Why would I be able to tell you some great insight which not even the most renowned academics and journalists seem to get? I know that the DPRK has an 8h workday. Rural life is a lot of manual and bestial labor since the lack of fuel prevents them from using agricultural machines. There are no "mud huts" - they have normal Korean houses made of stone, the problem they have is that they probably lack connection to the energy grid in the more rural areas. Healthcare is free, and probably better than in other developing countries but probably not nearly as good as in the West. I know that the DPRK has a 100% literacy rate so education is probably decent everywhere. There are local councils and cooperative farms and SoE farms have a workplace democracy. All in all, rural life isn't that much different than rural life in other Asian counties except stuff like the lack of energy, but there is no denying that under Kim Jong-un efforts are made to greatly improve the living conditions in underdeveloped areas:
exploredprk.com/articles/changsong-today/
exploredprk.com/photos/northern-areas-of-korea-turning-misfortune-into-a-blessing/
upi.com/North-Korea-moving-flood-victims-into-new-homes/2691479344309/

Your other points are quite weak as well. Of course they restrict freedom of movement for foreigners and freedom of information because they are still at war and can't afford a fancy firewall like China and Vietnam do to protect themselves from cyber warfare. The questions whether or not you want to live in the UK or the DPRK is also dishonest as fuck. UK has 300 years of capitalist development fueled by the spoils of imperialism, it's one of the leading world economies. Be honest and ask yourself: Would you rather live in the DPRK where you have a guaranteed job, 8 hour work day, social services, a fun park and a water park, leisure activities and weed or in Rwanda? Because these two countries have about the same GDP.

Because that worked out so great for Iraq and Libya, right? The DPRK has frozen its nuclear program in the 90s until Bush named them part of the Axis of Evil (of which every state has been destroyed). Putting the horse in front of cart again, good job.

putting the cart in front of the horse*

ITT

LARPers gonna LARP
also how is this dumpster fire of a thread still going?

You're the one who relishes at the struggle of the North Koreans and somehow lives vicariously through their fight against imperialism while doing fuck all about it yourself.

Again, misrepresentation of statements and straw men. Literally right-wing/capitalist tactics of arguing.

Never said they should disarm, but maybe Un should stop sabre rattling. Iran toned down its nuclear program in response to sanctions. "Only fools die for ideals."

Nice argument.

Truly a worker's paradise.

And why do you think that is?

Every North Korean has a
?
Lol, give me a fucking break.

At least I could fucking LEAVE Rwanda.

Personally I am not really concerned with how "tyrannical" the DPRK allegedly is. The fact that they stand up to American influence and consistently force America to capitulate to their demands is good enough for me. Remember that socialism (whether global or in a single country like R*java) is literally impossible as long as the United States is the sole global superpower. We need multipolarity.

As an orthodox Marxist-Methist I support North Korea. Not because they are socialist or anti-imperialist or any other idiot LARP concerns. I support the DPRK because they have legal methamphetamines which they export to to the rest of the world. As a Methist I believe that if every worker had enough methamphetmine they could work hard enough to trigger an over production crisis the likes of we have never seen before destroying capitalism from the inside. This crisis would to the creation of the Global Dictatorship of the Tweakertariat or GDoT ushering mankind into an era peace, freedom and all the drugs you could ever want.

I also heard that the DPRK stole Hillary's emails and leaked them to wikileaks. Oh and also they helped Russia hack the election to give Trump (more like DRUMPF amirite?) the win. Any other shitty burger problem you want to pin on them, liberal?

Whats wrong with legal meth?

youtube.com/watch?v=YWMhrGf2ylw

I'm not born Korean and I have conditions in my own country, where I'm also not living a hunky-dory life. Are you implying I don't have the balls to fight when shit goes down? What about you, are you part of an anarchist milita that abducts porky children? What an awkward attempt to make this personal and a Third Worldist argument.

lmao, do you think when they tone down the rethoric the US is going to be a-ok with nukes? You completely ignored my other argument: They've already tried to freeze the nuclear program. Didn't work. Iran is in an extremly vulnerable position right know, they replaced an Islamic-SocDem government with a liberal one yet they still had to freeze their civil (!) uranium program.

It's true. Do you dent the existence of the Munsu Water Park or various fun parks? Or the leisure facilities? You may find this hilarious but that actually exists.

No you can't, Rwandan passport is one of the worst in the world, super hard to immigrate anywhere as long as you are not in the 5%. Best chance is to pay some human traffickers and then hope you don't end up in a concentration camp in Libya or in literal slavery.

North Koreans actually can travel, most countries put up travel bans, if you want North Koreans to see the world tell them to lift them. In China, Vietnam, Indonesia or Laos you can find lots of North Koreans, they buy consumer items there or get medical treatment. In South Korea however, they can't go back to the DPRK:
english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_northkorea/799215.html
archive.fo/4E6mS

I was talking about North Korea specifically. You're happy to see them struggle and you get some perverse enjoyment from it. Pure fucking ideology.

Maybe this time it will. Marxism-Leninism didn't work before, yet you want to try again. Why should North Korea have a one-and-done policy when you yourself don't have one?

Name some other ones. Show me evidence of every North Korean having access to a water park. That was, after all, your claim.

Only South Korea and Japan have a ban on North Koreans entering. Most countries require them to get a visa, and some allow visa-free entry.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_North_Korean_citizens

North Korean government sends workers to Poland to be exploited by capitalists then collects their paychecks.
youtube.com/watch?v=SPjKs8NuY4s
Try to debunk the video without saying "Vice is imperialist propaganda with an agenda."

both of you need to calm down and smoke some meth

Plenty of defectors go back, or profess to have worse lives in South Korea or China. Clearly you haven't read the thread, why are you attempting to argue in bad faith with imperialist talking points?

see

You sound like you've consumed a YouTube video of Zizek and now think you are some psychoanalyst wizard.

It worked a thousand times better than anarchism, that would make anarchism the bottom of the barrel if we go by that. 70 years of being a superpower and going from a feudal peasant state to a space-faring modernized nation looks pretty functional to me. And the DPRK still exists.

What do you know about my policies?

Trotsky syndrome. Stalin builds kindergardens, yet it's not enough. It's never enough. You won't shut up until every single North Korean lives like a surgeon in Switzerland. Otherwise it can't be real socialism, can it?

So, most countries do ban them. Considering how impossible this endeavour is.

I watched the video, I think it makes a huge drama about something like a guest worker. We don't know anything about these people, for all we know they might be convicts. I don't think they would resort to such things if they could openly and mutually trade with other countries - Kaesong area is closed and so are the SEZ. In fact, South Korea shots people who try to go back to work in there.
archive.fo/DWDDk

Also, try to respond to my other arguments before opening up a whole new can of worms and try to use less gish-galloping

im new so idk why that didnt work but literally ctrl+f defectors

the real American imperialism is the suppression of meth

Not at all. Although your blind loyalty to DPRK and your staunch defense of a dictator is kinda weird.

You're intellectually dishonest.

Again, misrepresenting arguments and building strawmen. You named *one*, single water park. And in your mind that's evidence of there being water parks all over the DPRK for North Koreans to enjoy.

Just because their glorious leader created a hostile environment so that no country will put an embassy in the DPRK. If North Koreans can visit Laos, or Indonesia, why don't they go to an embassy there and get a visa?

What's the process of getting issues a DPRK passport as a North Korean?

What about the worker's testimony that he isn't allowed to keep his earnings, but they get sent to the DPRK?

For all we know maybe they begged the government to send them there. Maybe this is actually a reward to them! Who knows!

When faced with a lack of information, you seem to assume the best. Why? I don't know. History tells us that when governments cover things up, they usually do it to hide things which are embarassing or bad, you assume that when the DPRK hides things, they're hiding evidence of a paradise on Earth.

Yes, fun parks and leisure parks exist in the DPRK. Here's a video of a guy who went to a ski resort in the DPRK to snowboard: youtube.com/watch?v=7PF5dS89iG4

But again, the resort is empty, which leads me to believe these kinds of places are reserved for DPRK's upper class, friends of Un and people like that. Now you can speculate and say maybe North Koreans hate skiing, or maybe he went on a day when people were sick, and you can come up with a million reasons why it's empty, yet the simplest one is that it's empty because most North Koreans don't have access to it.

Do you not think that if majority of citizens of DPRK enjoyed fun parks and water parks the DPRK would film it and show it to the world? Every little success they broadcast to the world, like the factories in the KCNA articles. Yet, as you yourself admitted, there is a lack of information.

>archive.fo/DWDDk
Why are you lying?
From the article:
1) When the shooting happened the Kaesong area was open
2) the man who was shot was not trying to "go back to work in there", he was trying to defect to North Korea
3) North Korea shoots defectors the same way
reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-southkorea-defection/escape-from-north-korea-video-shows-defector-under-fire-idUSKBN1DM07E

Which arguments? I've been trying to respond to everything you have said.

the problem with filling this board with mouthbreathers from fedbook.

Found another NK channel
youtube.com/channel/UCndGz3c8ImJ216C4kZMxaWA/videos

updated the OP

No, it wasn't empty, just nobody was skilled enough to ski on difficult slopes and the actual resort wasn't filmed too much, so not many were filmed.
At a certain ( youtu.be/7PF5dS89iG4?t=492 ) point in the video you can see at least 30 North Koreans.

*not many people

...

Comrade Kim appears to have mastered art of bringing the dead back to life.
Is this the power of Juche?

rt.com/news/416572-north-korea-executed-kim-return/

ty for the bump nig


truly the enemy of human happiness :^)

Hey DPRK-guy, what's your take on B. R. Meyers? Do you have any articles debunking the cleanest race or his newer book?

sbs.com.au/news/north-korean-defector-confesses-to-murder-report

btw I'm arround I just didn't have the time to respond to this


It's bullshit. It's like 90% pseudo-freudian analysis of "human nature". I will debunk or at least argue against it once I have time.

how many times has this happened now?
they should put out a collage of all supposed "killed" people that kept showing up after their executions

Should be looking at Israel and CIA and England. Isis is probably Israel secret Intellegent service. Plus they have 3 nuke subs. Could have been in Hawaii shooting kiss me and in Japan shooting missel

U ok m8

youtube.com/watch?v=IbfjU2jEGTc
glorious

Saving this thread for later– a bunch of alarmist idiots are freaking out that the DPRK is toootally gonna get invaded this time guise!!!

archive.is/R6boT
Let's revisit it in a couple months and see if the big invasion has happened.

Stay mad, and bad.

Ok shitposter, you will look no different in this thread than any of the anarkiddies or liberals who come here to shit on KJU and get BTFO.
Meantime, read a fucking book, you do NOT get to call yourself a ☭TANKIE☭ or Marxist-Leninist if you can't even read Lenin.
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/index.htm
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm

...

Tankposter, would you mind giving your opinion on "The cleanest race" and BR Meyers' whole take on North Korea? To summarize, he claims that socialism in the DPRK is vestigial, and the regime's actual appeals to the people are based on appeals to racial purity. He differentiates between various circles of propaganda, with the official English and Korean-language news being aimed at foreigners primarily, while internal propaganda aimed at the workers and peasants has a wholly different thrust. Juche is not something that is internally propagandized or taught, and by consequence only superficially known by the people.

He throws me for a loop because he contradicts the typical liberal propaganda of the DPRK being a totalitarian state that relies on force to maintain the regime and is desperately poor. His version has the DPRK being more or less a typically lower income Asian country, with a government that relies mostly on being seen as legitimate via propaganda, which it succeeds at because many people migrate to and from China proving they do not actually want to leave, and is internally fairly nonviolent.

I can't quite see what his angle is with his undermining of the typical propaganda against the DPRK, and don't know if there are deep studies disproving his claims based on primary sources. Is he controlled opposition against the main narrative?

see

woops
Well he should give the people what they want then!

I don't remember any of this. I remember mostly his analysis of the portraits of Kim always listening to the people and being extremely paternal which you can't deny. Even Today pretty much every single picture of KJU has people following him around with notepads like he is able to provide guidance on absolutely everything. I would also like to see you address the fact that cites internal propaganda as evidence of the racial and nationalist shit (which they very obviously still use to this day)

good swiss foreign exchange student
never forget a country with Direct Democracy is responsible for his education

t. (You)

...

As I said, I'm currently really busy and I'll come arround and critique this book, but that would also require completely reading it which would take some time. I have only read excerpts of it and saw two full lectures of Myers on YouTube, from what I was seeing was that his sources are not fraudulent or anything, I think the conclusions he made were ludicrous. For example, he often equates anti-Americanism as racism. He met a defector girl and she turned her head away from him as he approached her, and he uses that as an example of racism. He also shows propaganda pictures that portray enemies shadily, and claims that this is inherent racism. He doesn't actually provide hard evidence for it, his assessments miss the reality of life in the DPRK which employ black teachers and give support to black and African liberation movements. They are not racists, and I think you can criticize Juche and the DPRK ideological superstructure differently than just pulling the racist card.

I mean, he does use "human nature" a lot and psychoanalyses quite a bit. I can provide quotes once I have time, and I also still need to respond to that anarchist poster. Myer's statement that Korean culture is influenced by imperial Japan isn't wrong, but then he goes on and on about how the DPRK was actually admiring Japan and South Korea was more hostile to it, which I think is the most dishonest part. Of course Korean culture is is influenced by Japanese culture, who ever denied that? He said that the North favored Japanese speaking people, whereas the South imprisoned or killed them - and that supposedly proves that Kim il-Sing secretly admired the Japanese and wanted to model the DPRK after fascist Japan. This is for example a part where Myers is openly dishonest. The reason why the South imprisoned Japanese speaking people was because that as a result of Japanese colonialism, the intellectual elites of Korea spoke Japanese, and simultaneously the South had quite a genocidal anti-intellectual campaign going on because they were suspected to be commies. Meanwhile, the North with its communist ideology revered intellectuals who happened to speak Japanese. That's just one part I remember because I got quite angry about it.

People like Myers are actually the more dangerous propagandists because they cloak themselves in supposed "left-liberal rationalism" - Myers himself spends a good amount of time to criticize other books about the DPRK quite harshly, because they were ridiculous in painting the North Koreans as crazy people. He stages his critique as this rational, unbiased investigation of North Korea from a liberal perspective, so he automatically appeals to left-liberal redditors who start off by already having an extremly negative bias about the DPRK, so some psychoanalytic babble about North Koreans not being communists but racist dwarfs (how is this not super-racist in itself?) just plays into their confirmation bias.

I will surely come back to this once I have time

Wasn't his claim that the North incorporated the ethnically Korean bureaucracy that the Japanese had set up, rather than that they favored Japanese speakers? The latter would be innocuous, but the former is perhaps more problematic. It would imply that the DPRK did not have the thorough épuration that many other fascist-occupied states had, with an attendant lack of a reckoning with the cultural aspects of fascism.
Of course it is idle speculation absent a look into the sources he used either way.

I mean, this is also especially fucking awful, since the ROK government was literally identical to the Japanese occupation (IE same personnel even) other than a change of figureheads.

Also, didn't most Northern collaborators flee to the South after the Provisional People’s Committee organized land reform in 1946?

Taiwan officialy uses a similar calendar which begins in the year of the founding of the Republic of China, which happens to be the same year Kim il Sung was born. 2018 is Year of the Republic 107 and also Juche 107.

...

youtube.com/watch?v=tR5hjJzyN1Y

mintpressnews.com/north-korea-neither-trump-nor-western-media-wants-world-see/233355/

Thanks for the video. Also thanks for pointing out the independent journalists.

It is a shame that they do not have greater reach and instead the corporate media have far greater coverage and influence.

The problem of corporate media pushing the disinformation about the DPRK, having the same effect as advertisement has, makes it hard to convince people otherwise. And because most of the independent and unbiased journalism is in english, how do you convince people around you to not believe these for you obvious lies. Especially if they cannot speak or understand any english.

And also what is a pathetic young proletarian aspiring to be a labour aristocrat supposed to do in the face of western imperialism having its stranglehold on the entire earth?

21stcenturywire.com/2018/02/05/western-left-fiddles-world-burns/

Join the communist party? How to yank out the fellow proles out of indifference to international issues? Especially when they are fed daily propaganda about those evil refugees and terrorists. No wonder they resort to nationalism and trade protectionism and everything that will ensure them a good wage despite the natural tendencies of capitalism to impoverish everyone but the biggest capitalists themselves.

Sorry for the defeatist rant, but at least bumping the thread.

Defending the DPRK makes you a social outcast. It's basically on the same level as Holocaust denial in the liberal minds. I've mildly succeeded in having somewhat civil debates with anti-communists about the good sides of the USSR and other countries, but that the DPRK is literally Hitler is basically an axiom at this point.

North korea seems good.

They block out degenerate western culture
They dont allow fun

But idk, kim jong un seems to authoritarian for my communism taste, with his gulags and all.

How do you expect anprim to work without authoritarianism?

Far right user here, just wanted to pop by and say Juche is pretty cool. If more leftists were like the DPKR you'd be much more respectable than the usual zionist useful idiots.

Two questions:

How do we convince Best Korea to allow access to this board? They won't do the whole site, obviously, but I wanna let them know they can talk to comrades from all over the world.

Can we create film and entertainment for them? 300 films and one anime isn't all that many over the course of one's life.

How many people in North Korea have internet access?

I wonder if there are any intra-DPRK forums

Picture of a newly planned city in the DPRK, thought I'd share. It looks a bit like a city in Pokemon, I like it though.

looks dope

Looks kinda like a cicuit board. Sweet!

How do we know that North Korea isn't already lightyears in the future and all the flying saucers are from the DPRK?

This cannot be actual North Korean news - no country EVER has news like this making the headlines!
kcnawatch.co/newstream/1518091229-974873037/paektusan-prize-games-of-civil-servants-at-its-height/
I call this as a complete coverup by filthy capitalists - a media blackout and propaganda, but not by North Koreans, but everyone else. FUCKING BREAKING NEWS OMG - SEESAW AND TUG O WAR MATCHES BETWEEN GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS HOLY SHIT, MORE AT 11, STAY FUCKING TUNED

it looks great mate

mobile.twitter.com/BBCMonitoring/status/961997950091218949

BBC tried to claim that North Korea TV won't show the olympics, and gets exposed for being liars right away. They tweet this half-arsed squirming correction.

got any good photos/vids of the united Korea team?

Is DPRK actually comparable to Not Socialism? This guy's argument is sort of compelling

youtube.com/watch?v=1qPf-zZ4eKQ

...

No.

If they weren't socialist, how could they have survived as a country for so long with the entire world against them? You can't have a secure, self-sufficient state with capitalism, the companies will just sell all of your most valuable shit.

holy fuck read Marx

The DPRK as a government isn't really that much of an improvement over the preceding Korean Empire which was also ruled by an absolute monarchy. I'm on the fence about sanctions against the DPRK. On one hand, there doesn't seem to be any way to pressure the Kim dynasty into reforming to a more transparent and democratic government beyond sanctions to build up internal tensions. On the other hand, the current sanctions are implemented for the wrong reasons (ie. DPRK's nuclear deterrence is irrelevant to the issue of human rights, something the US never really gave a shit about), and the North Korean citizens could be so brainwashed that millions may be willing to starve to death before revolting. It really is a dilemma.

See

See image

Are you literally Strafor or something? lmao

Why does this dude need to inspect every fucking thing. And he is impressed as well. Its a fucking potato farm.

I liked that VICE documentary of the harlem globe trotters in north korea

Those countryside houses look better than the one I slept in in China

country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-9557.html
It's a thing. It's supposed to check on the bureaucracy and connect the leadership with the workers. Do you know of any western leaders who actually do this?

Also, I know it's a fucking potato farm, but it actually looks better than an average potato farm in my country.

So they actually built a school for the lighthouse keeper's daughter on an abandoned island. I guess this explains why the DPRK has the highest literacy rate in the world.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

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call me a porky but this seems really wasteful to me

How so? It's not profitiable, that's true, but that's the point of organizing production and labor not in accordance with the law of value.

We are talking about manual labor (maintaining the buildings) and intellectual labor (teaching) here. It is not a waste of raw materials, unless you think that the DPRK suffers from a labor shortage.

Did I say it was okay? It's just not unique to the DPRK to do such things.

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In what way is ensuring a quality education for everyone "wasteful"

Holy fuck, how DOES a capitalist country become a self-sufficient stronghold?

couldn't they use the North Korean intranet for this ?
still a non issue

you can't supply a school environment with intranet

online course are a thing, north Korea has a nk only internet, your telling they can't rip off courser

*cousera

These are the lengths you go in order to guarantee full employment?

I'm telling you that you can't provide a material environment through digital simulation you micro brainlet

Tfw on suicide watch

No, it is objectively a poor use of resources for a reclusive country that has very little resources to begin with. The DPRK is a totalitarian monarchy no better than the ones in the Middle East and Northern Africa.

lmao
Why do you people keep making the same claims which have already debunked ITT?

What the fuck user, I was replying to that very accusation and you don't respond to my argument other than saying "no". You are either an alienated liberal or from Holla Forums because you seem to be embossed by the law of value regulating eveything in your life. Here is the thing: If the DPRK would not do this, you would whine about how North Korea "ignores rural people" or some shit. Seriously, get fucked.

If I was a kid living on a rock in the ocean and a "totalitarian monarchy" would take care of getting me an education like all the other kids I'd quite like that "totalitarian monarchy". Why are you so mad?

I like that picture in particular because there is some incredible underlying smugness in the face of Kim Jong Un's sister, and Pence was truly behaving like the ultimate beta cuck when he refused to shake hands etc.

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Hardly making a case for the DPRK here, all patriotism and nationalism is a spook

Perhaps because they continued trade with their existing partners?

Patriotism in the USA is deeply embossed by capitalism as a form of identity. It's national founding myth is literally a subscription to liberal values of private property and free association. This is very different from nationalism of oppressed nations, which have been suffering under capitalism instead of reaping its fruits, which can make it more progressive. American nationalism is always pro-capitalist by definition.

Patriotism =/= nationalism.

There was some asian woman on the daily show with jon steward leibovitz few years back that went there as an english teacher, she practically admited to being a spy, so it happens.

youtube.com/watch?v=ADN0H6MREHA

"Without a Break" is truly my most favourite Moranbong Band track.

suki kim? all she did was pose as a teacher and get some anecdotal information. what kind of fucked up false equivalence are you even trying to make here?
politico.com/story/2017/09/08/why-north-korea-is-a-black-hole-for-spies-242473
do some reading

lmao this map is objectively full of shit.

9 in 10 of of these "relations" ceased existance since half a century regardless of no official "termination", have been frozen due to sanctions/political pressure for decades and defacto do not exist or never felll under the common definition of "established diplomatic relations"

lmao

...

Someone make this an anime

It's more like

I think you're the one who's full of shit.
Either way, they aren't reclusive hermits.

That's because you're from a non country. You should try to live in a real country so you can see how a nation operates and how there's nothing wrong with nationalism.
You want to know what is a real country? Those in green :)

i wonder who's behind that post

reddit.com/r/ActLikeYouBelong/comments/7x9a2m/north_korean_cheerleaders/
in which the concept of cheerleading is entirely lost on reddit

why are burgers so obsessed with clapping?

What is the nonsense?

Forgot this important one.

a bundle of sticks with an axe?
washington confirmed for fascist?

motherfokin silver ak47 on a door guard
TIGHT

Don't do this, friends. Don't make me lose my shit and explain the North Korean cult of personality and how it differs from patriotism or nationalism.

Don't do it.

do it faggot

Honestly the average redditor's views on the dprk are so incredibly delusional and out of touch with reality it's amazing. It's practically a cartoon-villain out of touch delusionality. Like, these people really believe that the DPRK is wasting precious time and energy just going around spying on their own citizens and slaughtering families because one dude ran off. Like, I don't understand how people can believe that such a country would function, let alone become one with nuclear missiles capable of reaching the US. Like, do they not realize how incredibly self destructive it would be to kill an entire family because one of them stopped clapping or some shit? And then here's the biggest thing, if life really is so incredibly shitty that it's a living hell where you can't even go outside without being threatened with slave labor camps, then why the fuck don't they rebel? Like, if people started an actual rebellion in the dprk let's not pretend that the US and other western powers wouldn't intervene here, and yet I've scarcely heard a thing about rebellion aside from the occasional defector who gives yet another contradictory soap opera about the living hell that is the dprk, only to find him or herself living a shit life in SK as well.

And this doesn't even get me started on their cheerleaders in particular. Like, apparently a person in the dprk can't even smile without being held at gunpoint, and any supervisor they might have can only exist to report their behavior to the Big K so he can enslave their family at a moment's notice, and not, I dunno, to make sure they're safe and don't get lost, and to make sure that people from outside their country don't fuck with them or something. It isn't as if the MSM has made the DPRK an international oddity or something.

And of course, if anyone questions this blatant propaganda they'll just downvote and move on.

I mean, I can't even say that I'm all that supportive of the DPRK in many ways, but it's hard not to get forced into becoming an ubertankie DPRK apologist when trying to combat the misinformation and propaganda about the country, and it gets so fucking exhausting.

Fine, fucker.

The major difference between patriotic depictions of major historical figures ( at least in the American sense) and DPRK's cult of personality is the status that is placed on them. For example, in the United States, we have many statues and monuments dedicated to George Washington or Abraham Lincoln, and while we remember the contributions they gave to their community, state, or nation, we are also aware that they were human. They had flaws, can be criticized, and are generally acknowledged to be dead, and there are no laws requiring their deification.

This is not the case in DPRK. Legally and culturally, the leaders are considered perfect. While it sounds absurd to think that Kim Jong Il never pooped, voicing any opinion to that affect in the DPRK will result in quick and brutal punishment. The Kims have crafted a cult of personality around themselves to demand loyalty and obedience to them. Kim Il Sung is their eternal dear leader and father. Kim Jong Il is their eternal great leader and eternal general secretary of the party. Any disagreement with the legacy of the Kims or denying their perfection is treated as treasonous, and there is an established network of internal policing that's always looking for such acts.

It's these brutal punishments and extensive spying that answers question of why they don't rebel. The citizens are constantly watched by their friends, family, and neighbors to ensure loyalty to the leadership. They can never really trust anyone.

Major disappointment, I didn't think you'd be Buzzfeed.

imagine my shock

I'm not even that big of a DPRK supporter, but if you're seriously gonna claim that North Koreans believe that Kim Jong-Il didn't shit (or that implying he did will immediately get you punished), you're gonna have to provide some evidence if you wish to be taken seriously. Do better.

It's especially ridiculous since he had such a big mouth and claimed that he is just about to drop the truth bomb on us, yet his post was extremly disappointing and read like a Huffington Post article.

You … didn't actually read anything, did you?

It's not that they believe that the Kims do not poop, but they're made to believe the Kims do not poop, along with Kim Jung Il being born on Mount Paektu and that Kim Il Sung single-handedly defeated the Japanese in World War 2. It's similar to the exaggerated grief you saw when Kim Jung Il died. It's not that they were sad, but they were expected to ridiculously grieve for the great leader or else face punishment.

My sources are:
Dear Leader by Jang Jin-sung
Nothing to Envy; Ordinary Lives in North Korea by Barbara Demick
The Real North Korea by Andrei Lankov
Various documentaries
etc.

What's funny to me is that you're defending a capitalist, gangster fiefdom simply because they're against the United States and other capitalist western powers.

Truly crazy indeed, Holla Forums should vigorously condemn every so-called socialist state because it makes us look bad in front of liberals, even if it means using propaganda and forgeries of intelligence community origin, until real communism comes afoot.

fuck off liberal

Oh of course. The oppressive government has just coerced every citizen into spying on each other while providing no reason for the citizens to be loyal at all. I'm sorry, but this is completely absurd. A state that is built on the level of senseless cruelty that is attributed to the dprk is completely unsustainable, and yet somehow they've managed to be one of the last standing socialist nations in existence. This just doesn't make any sense

Just because you, sitting in your comfortable home, freely discussing topics with strangers on the internet, can't comprehend it doesn't mean it isn't real.

Have you ever read 1984? The DPRK tries incredibly hard to control access to information. Citizens are born, live, and die in the world the state wants them to believe is real. From there comes peer pressure to conform, as North Korea has the Inminban, neighborhood hood watch organizations, that support state security by informing on criminal activity or political disobedience. In addition, freedom of movement is non-existent, so information from one area rarely travels to another. These measures make rebellion a Herculian effort. Even during the famine in the 90s, when hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of North Koreans died, the government's control of information prevented any sort of political disobedience outside of a black market.

North Korea isn't the "last socialist nation in existence". North Korea isn't socialist. It's a hereditary, totalitarian dictatorship, a criminal enterprise on global scale. Goods are "redistributed" to the ruling elite in Pyongyang, who in turn pass them on to their cronies. Their continued existence is a testament to their control of information and their ability to threaten the world.

gtfo CIA

That was fiction you maroon.

dumb motherfucker detected
look at these koreans being ``forced`` to cry for their dead leader everyone!!!!
youtube.com/watch?v=F-j0GJhe0lg

press F to pay respects to formatting, I fucked that one up

youtube.com/watch?v=8s6RKY9Emng

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burgerstan literally blocks its own citizens from seeing wicked DPRK "propaganda". not suspicious at all, thank god I don't live in that alleged totalitarian hellhole we're all supposed to hate amirite?

I'm from Germany and it's blocked here as well. Someone mirror it?

Not that unbelievable considering they can apparently execute people and then bring them back to life :^)

How democratic is the Democratic People's Republic, really? Can citizens openly criticize the government?

When arguing with liberals I can make a good argument against any military intervention in the DPRK. And I can point to the hypocrisy of the west condemning the DPRK for being poor and not having the same living standards as western countries (or ROK) while at the same time doing their absolute best to starve their people with cruel sanctions. But if the DPRK is actually democratic, then successfully convincing a liberal of that must be an impossible task.

Does the DPRK have a collection of leftist books? Like a library containing the writings of Stalin, De Leon, Trotsky, Lenin, Che, Gaddafi etc.? I wonder how well-read the DPRK is in the different leftist ideologies and their political beliefs/goals.

Summoning the tank user that went to North Korea and knows a fuck ton to answer this question.

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wrong. There are elective monarchies (See, HRE) and there are non-hereditary monarchies (See, Roman Empire)

The defining aspect of a monarchy is the funny hat. To be the cultural icon. The only thing stopping Kim from being an undisputed icon, (even by the images own talk) is that he has not taken the title of "Emperor" of Korea. (Which he will not, unless he controls South Korea to.)

Funny hats. Important. Remember that.

shitpost discarded

Yeah, its a great song.
youtube.com/watch?v=g1K1SrArvg8

archive.is/gnwIo

This is claimed all the fucking time, if I got a dime everytime this is said I'd be rich - yet I've actually never ever heard that this was the case. Pretty much every defector story is about seperation from their family members (for which South Korea is responsible btw).

youtube.com/watch?v=QDJlNQlRbIA

Abby Martin's episode about the DPRK

anything noteworthy in it? Can't stand her production style.

Does anyone know how illegal it is in the USA to spread propaganda for the DPRK? Does it depend on whether or not you actually communicate with the DPRK? Where does the law draw the line?

Ten years of prison rape. are you seriously asking for legal advice on a laotian throat singing appreciation club?

Those must be the same gulags which supposedly have 3 generations of punishment while at the same time supposedly having death penalty for pregnancy.
Why can't anti DPRK propagandists get their stories straight?

well communists should know what level of legality their speech actually has.

DPRK and ROK ice skaters cry as they say goodbye to each other..
youtube.com/watch?v=3kcbHxlNZJ8&feature=youtu.be&t=1m17s
;_;

They're crying because they have to return to north korea and KIM is personally going to kill them once they step out the bus!

Mein Kampf is barely autobiographical, it's pretty obvious you've never read it. The autobiographical sections are mixed in or serve as lead ups to his world-view

this, KJU said "ice skaters are a kind of human Popsicle that I feed to my pet wolves"

I've tried to remove that after I asked them to source this a couple of times and since it's without a source since a year or so. Mods changed it back immediatly in a super fast reaction time.

Notice how everything else in the introduction is sourced except this. There is also not a single other Wiki article about a real existing country in which the introductory paragraph misses fucking sources,

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Most political Wiki pages are straight up written by PR firms and intel agencies. Marxists need to make their own wiki. I am beginning to think I need to create it myself, but I am currently trying to learn about the software and its privacy features first.

I am one of the few people who am still kind of worried about how the US will respond to NK.
The US is retracting diplomats from NK. It seems as though the US is uninterested in peace at any level. However the reports that American counter missiles tests were a complete and utter failure does seem like it would be a stupid idea to go through with it. However it seems as if tensions between the two countries have only increased rather than decrease.
I have no idea what to think of the situation to be honest. Would NK even be able to handle the US if they were to go to war? I think a war would only ferment Donald Trump's popularity and it would be an easy way for the GOP to be able to secure their positions in mid-term elections.
However even with all the news that we are only heading towards war, I still have doubts that this is even possible at all. The Chinese could just stop trading with the US and thus utterly halt the US military's infrastructure. Not only that, but the US would lose a bunch of allies even if their goal was successful.
When an empire is in decline, it is often that they will do some stupid shit in order to futility to still rule.

I'm not trying to be an alarmist but one too many miscommunications and bluff calls could cause things to spiral out of control. It's tempting to assume every alliance will hold up and cooler heads will prevail but that isn't always the case.

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I need to correct me, today the 22rd Party convention of the DKP. And the party voted for a ban of members from the "Netzwerk"

Kim Jong Un Meets Members of Delegation of Special Envoy of S. Korean President

exploredprk.com/press/kim-jong-un-meets-members-of-delegation-of-special-envoy-of-s-korean-president/

terminatugal

I keep forgetting that this thread is here sometimes, and has an active community of """""""""""""""""""""""anti-imperialists"""""""""""""""""""""""""

if this is the post that body odour actually bans me for, I will probably keel over laughing

Do you have a specific problem with this? I personally don't defend the DPRK only because of anti-imperialism, I do it because the DPRK is a socialist state.

don't get why so many people here defend what is essentially a feudal monarchy, especially given that there are more worthwhile projects here dedicated to things that aren't lost causes

You're an unironical succdem and a namefag, think you are slandering the DPRK? You are complimenting her.

How exactly are they feudal? Where are the serfs who are tied to the land?

We must critically support Donald Trump in his struggle against North Korean imperialism.

Name one.

do you have brain damage m8?

Tank user, do you believe and generally argue that the DPRK is democratic, or that the lack of democracy is mostly because of outside forces constantly trying to subvert the sovereignty of the state and that free elections would only help them achieve that?

Also, how do you generally debunk the "prison camp" shit?

They actually did, briefly. Like most things in the soviet union, it failed.

worldslastchance.com/ecourses/lessons/changing-weeks-hiding-sabbath-ecourse/18/20th-century-soviet-calendar-reform.html

I’m honestly shocked at the level of historical ignorance present ITT.

Not him, but I'll point a few things out:
1. DPRK conducts votes and people's conventions to elect candidates, allows multiple non-bourgeois parties, has tons of co-ops, and has many other polling mechanisms. This is democratic by superficial Western standards, so most Westerners just screech and claim it's all a sham (as opposed to what, Western electoral systems? lmao).
2. Even if there wasn't a SINGLE VOTE conducted in the DPRK, even if all other political parties were banned, even if all the workplaces were managed by top-down hierarchy, it would STILL be a hundred times more democratic on a fundamental level than ANY country that doesn't have: free healthcare, free housing, free education, full employment, and any number of other pro-worker, pro-people measures and achievements that are taken by the DPRK state. Period.

Two things (btw, this was all discussed previously ITT and you can go read it, check out the archive in the OP too):
1. Half the evidence is literally just satellite photos of prisons and other miscellaneous facilities. Nobody is denying that there are normal socialist prisons in the DPRK, there is no society in history that has abolished prisons. The photos don't show anything uniquely sinister or evil going on.
2. The other half is paid (literally CIA and ROK govt pay tens of thousands of dollars) testimonies by a select few defectors. Most defectors don't agree with the stories, and they are contradicted by plenty of evidence which, again, you can find ITT if you dig in.

Hard to say. I'd argue that there are grassroot structures which I would definitely called democratic, such as worker councils, local councils, committees, etc. - I don't see any reason that they would be manipulated, because, just like it is in the West, local elections are usually dislodged from the national politics, as they would concern themselves with local problems and issues. It would be ridiculous to say that the WPK leadership has any interest in manipulating a vote inside agricultural cooperative number 27.

The Supreme People's Assembly regularly changes is members every election. It has more variation in this regard than most western parliament. The deputies certainly aren't glued to their seat in this regard.

Polls arround defectors show positive results for Kim Jong Un and the North Korean leadership. It could be argued that most North Koreans do not feel a particular quarrel with their leadership based on that.

I'm sure you can't question socialism, the WPK or denounce Kim Jong Un. This would not be tolerated at all.

Elections are secret. As it was with most Marxist-Leninist countries, the options on the ballot are limited, because emphasis is put on the nomination process, through mass organizations and the election itself is sort of a failsafe. The DPRK, just like the GDR did, has a front of national unity, consisting of the WPK, a SocDem party and a Confucian party. It's not a one-party-state. They decide upon their percentage of seats beforehand, and North Koreans decide to approve of this percentage of seats in the Supreme People's Assembly in the election. They can cross candidates out they don't like. However, in the GDR, you had to fold your ballot when you rejected the national unity front, therefore, everybody knew if you disapproved of it. This led to a bit of a defect of democracy on the GDR, as you had to fear repercussions when you voted against the consensus. In the DPRK, there are voter's booths without any folding. This means, your disapproval would be secret. Whether or not elections are manipulated is impossible to tell. We know that North Koreans support their leadership and have experienced a rise in living quality, and again, we can't prove a negative.

I went to the DPRK and I didn't see elections, but I was introduced to a room in a cooperative dedicated to worker council meetings and a room in a factory where they told us that the computers had a software where you could submit input and criticism to the factory committee.

I don't think so, because there are no polticial affiliations in the DPRK which are disloyal to the state. Democracy is more direct than indirect, so delegates really just care about their duties and less about their polticial affiliation. It's similar im Cuba.

If you define democracy as rule of the masses, the masses are in power in North Korea.

We have no hard evidence of those. Most defector stories are conflicting or have been debunked as a lie. The only evidence we have are satellite photos of rectangular buildings. They don't prove anything. Surely there are prisons in North Korea. How is the quality of these prisons? Well, how is the living quality of the average North Korean? It's like that just a bit lower. Like in every country. If the average North Korean citizen doesn't have the most balanced diet due to sanctions, the average prisoner probably has it worse.

I'm sorry I'm currently on my phone in a hotel room but I hope my answer was somewhat sufficient

I'm really busy recently but I'm glad to see this thread about socialist Korea is still alive :)

Big thank you dude

Real shit, is the DPRK actually going to open up and tell us what the actual fuck is going on. If it does, can be it done through non-violent means?

Would a united Korea actually give us insight as to what actually happens in the DPRK as opposed to "my dad works at Nintendo" tier annecdotes?

What? What does this mean, what does it entail?

The DPRK is committed to peace, they developed their nukes for the sake of peace and Korean unification. There won't be any violence on the Korean peninsula no matter how much the USA shrieks.

There would probably be more video blogging and tourism from there, which is the best kind of info we can hope for other than DPRK state sources. More academic studies too. However, the more Korea unites, the more the USA is going to flood the airwaves with liquid shit to try and drown the truth out. Since you're a Westerner, you would have to challenge yourself (which you're not doing right now) to actually do the research and be critical.

That really doesn't hold up as an argument. You could have carefully cared-for chattel slaves who received all those things and yet are stripped of any legal choice in their own life.

if you were holding slaves
you know that the point isn't to "give them free shit" on all imaginable levels?
that kinda negates the whole reasoning behind exploitation
your scenario and equivalence just doesn't hold up against reality
but i'm talking with an anarchist, so why even bother pointing that out

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You know that in order to own slaves, they need housing and they need food in order to work which you may well have to provide simply on the basis that slaves do not necessarily receive income that can pay for their own sustenance, and unless you have no serious intent to keep them alive, they need medical treatment, which they also can't afford for themselves?

also
By definition of being a slave this is a self-fulfilling condition
This is the only contestable one, but it's not like there haven't been exceptionally well-educated slaves throughout history

Here as in leftypol? since when is this an organizing platform and not a shitposting bonanza?

Which "lost causes"? I bet you're thinking socialism.

Get fucked retard, BO didn't kill enough e-kulaks.

It was before spunk pumps like you started posting here.