'Antifa are the real fascists'

I think the source of this notion began with Bush era liberals. They were the first to water down the definition of fascism to mean anything ugly, negative, or authoritarian. All of Bush's policies were labeled 'fascist' and people forgot what the actual definition and history of fascism. It made it easy for today's politically illiterate (aka vast majority of people) to swallow up the idea that militant responses to racism are fascistic.

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But what is fascism then? And don't tell "class collaboration", because I'm sure there must be better definitions than that.

I've personally always defined fascism as völkisch movement seizing power with the goal to implement aggressive foreign policies for imperialist gains.

Well, I would add ultranationalism and very reactionary and tradisionalistic to that definition aswell

Umberto Ecco's 14 points:
1. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition.
2. Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism.
3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action’s sake.
4. No syncretistic faith can withstand analytical criticism.
5. Besides, disagreement is a sign of diversity. Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks for consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference.
6. Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration. That is why one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class,
7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country. This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot,
8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies.
9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy.
10. Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak.
11. In such a perspective everybody is educated to become a hero.
12. Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters. This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality).
13. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say.
14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak

^Read it, is good shit.

Useful stuff, thanks!

No, it started with antifascism itself, when the Komintern decreed that everything deviating from the current party line is "fascism" they must destroy, even especially Social Democracy. It has never been more than a movement to shut down dialogue.

I have read more "points and characteristics of fascism" than I can recall, and all of them read like screeching at boogiemen under the bed, rather than any observation of actual movements.
They are nothing more than a leftoid ideologue's formulaization of the "Other".

You should ask an actual fascist instead.

Actual fascist would give me a dishonest answer.

not a fan of umberto eco's definition, which i think is a bit too loose. there are some excellent books on fascism by robert o. paxton, stanley g. payne and roger griffin.

i'd define fascism as "palingenetic ultranationalism."

the idea of "palingenesis" is important. the idea is to create an authoritarian state that revives the pure, uncorrupted (frequently ethnic) origin of the nation that existed in a mythic past. hence why fash look back at vikings, ancient rome or samurai.

leftists often underestimate the revolutionary nature of this. fascists are not simple conservatives … usually. they want to create a new society that contains the essence of a lost one.

another big thing is an almost "organic" connection between people and the nation-state. the nation-state is like an organism that must be purged of decadent, international, cosmopolitan elements to be made "fit" and "healthy."

this is why fascism is usually anti-semitic, and obsessed with physical fitness. the nation must be purged just like the body must be purged; so fascists are big on raw/natural foods and such; milk and wheat. the holocaust in the fascist's imagination was like wiping out parasites to purify / clean the nation.

look up "aryan girls in wheat fields" on Holla Forums

blonde hair = blonde wheat. blood and soil. a fascist is "rooted" unlike the "rootless" jews and such. fascists are human vegetables.

Aspects of this argument are reasonably challenged in David Renton's book on fascism: e-reading.club/bookreader.php/135772/Fascism_-_theory_and_practice.pdf
Do read it, Renton gives a worthwhile Marxist treatment on fascism.

thanks yeah i need to read renton and more marxist stuff on it. the authors i cited are liberals.

I don't know
The sitting us president flying on a military jet fighter, landing on an aircraft carrier, and celebrating the "victory" in an offensive war is pretty facist to me

Guise, stop it with the personalities.

Is For


pretty sure this was everywhere in the 70s

No it comes from the fact that Antifa has attempted to stop speakers like Milo from attending events. They have acted like brown shirts in the past. Now Antifa probably does a lot of good too but they're also retards in that they attack freedom of speech (something you absolutely cannot get away with in the US) and they sound like retards when they call everyone and their mother (including the kike that sucks black dick) nazis.

Very curious then why a lot of them seem to indulge in the very behaviors they desire to purge. Is there excuse some "it's part of the struggle" nonsense?

I'm kinda starting to support antifa…


Fascist here. The vast majority of people don't know what Fascism actually is and just like to spout memes they have heard. The truth of the matter is that Fascism is neither capitalist or Marxist, this is the reason why it is called the turd position. We create a state not for the benefit of business or the working class or the bureaucrats, but for the people of the nation. We take the elements that work in other political postitions and use them as our own.


You can't write thir_d on here now?

Holla Forumsitical illiterate detected

That wasn't real fascism. That was Hitlerism.

But that's impossible you faggot.

There has been nothing in the texts of Mussolini and other fascist ""theorists"" that would indicated the elimination of private property, wage labour, and markets dummy.

It is literally neo nazis vs neo neo nazis aka antifa.
One is pro ubermensch from there view the other is pro untermensch from there view.
Both are fueling each other.
And i must say neo neo nazis are more radical and common. And that gives the rise and sympath to neo nazis in an ironic twist.

No they fucking weren't.

This had been a longstanding thing - all sorts of things were labeled fascism. At the very least, it began with the New Left, if not earlier during the actual allied war effort itself. By the '70s it was standard - see "God Save the Queen."

This lasted a long time, and it really wasn't until Bush or Obama that people were really starting to get back to actually remembering that the term once referred to a specific ideology rather than being a kind of general disparaging term for authoritarianism. The overuse of "fascism" was parodied, but much of the public wasn't totally clear on the discrepancies - and you can't totally blame them. Fascism was a bullshit ideology and its specifics were a clusterfuck.

The majority don't actually buy "antifa are the real fascists!," ftr, either. Loud minority of retards - people who don't have a horse in the race tend not to cry over it.

There was a massive appropriation and appropriation-appropriation of the epithet before that, circa 'Bama, when Glenn Beck was eager to use "fascist" to describe the mainstream 'left' and portray big government as a lefty thing for an eager audience of amnesiacs. This also happens for pretty much anything - what liberals use to vaguely describe something they don't like about someone's policies always ends up being reused by the far right so they can maintain their partisan identity and avoid considering policy.

Caesarism + Jew-baiting