/LeftyBritPol/ - "Scottish State Richard [De Leon]ardism Inbound" edition

Things are only getting better: a tory party that has a budget that one wing of the party will autistically screech about, our boi Leonard got elected in Scotland, literally nobody as in no existing human being is more popular than any potential candidate for tory leader and McDonnell's powerlevel grows every day. What's next lads? and I totally didn't just waffle then to hit the 200 char limit

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bump because /leftybrit/ threads are always quality

Corbyn is a Social Democrat. Sorry lads. Just another Bourgeois Parlimentarian who won't bring Socialism.

He's a decent bloke though, I met him once up here when Cumbria was flooded.

Corbyn is an idealist, McDonnell on the otherhand is gonna make Lenin look like a Nordic socdem.

Compared to the red Torys of the past 20 years Corbyn is a good change. Im just worried that apart from McDonnell there is no one on further left to replace him when the time comes

So what is common consensus of Corbyn by the British people? I hear that he's really popular amongst the youth.

He won't bring socialism but he'll displace zombie neoliberalism.

It's a shame I'm a lazy fuck because I'm actually developing an increasingly interesting outlook on neoliberalism as a movement, now that we seem to be approaching a transitional epoch. In particular how the different strains have come together, how the actors who brought it about had diverging goals, and how through the general mistakes of human action it's come to be associated with various processes that follow the logic to bizarre conclusions that the original neoliberals might well have hated.

If I knew anything about Dialectics I might be able to ground this, but in the most vulgar "making Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis" memes I think we're in that kind of space now. The synthesis follows on.

I mean consider /r/neoliberal for example - now they're not really "true" neoliberals so much as clintonite LARPers, but they're interesting to take in good faith. Like most bourgeois economists they recognize that austerity was stupid, for example. (As do most people I know who've studied or study economists properly.) They take the "keep your powder dry" approach - i.e. we should have austerity during boom times, for example, but they accept that kind of Keynesian methodology over a totally neoclassical approach where the state can only ruin things. They want the tiniest dose of Keynes on technocratic grounds.

Forget where I was going with that, I'm time constrained.

Anyway on a shorter point: Market Stalinism. i.e. the system of targets, etc. (Read Mark Fisher) in public services. Now, you see how that arises out of neoliberal public-choice theory logic: Public workers are all Sir Humphrey, they all hate the public and act only in their self interest. Okay, good - so you're Thatcher, that's easy: Fire them. Let the market do it. But sometimes the market doesn't work - but you still accept the old SocDem system of good faith was inefficient - so what do you do? Well, you try to create a market so that the wonderful market can set itself over all these tasks and make things work well. You monitor, quantify, target and (try to) price.

And what happens? Well now you need people to set the prices. It's like one of those economists experiments where by redrawing 1 curve you totally subvert the model. Redraw one line on the neoliberal model and you wind up with central planned Stalinism. (I'm sure "market stalinism" is being rolled out more and more in the private sector but don't quote me.)

So I mean to surmise my thoughts I think the coming time will - in an optimistic sense probably take some rational parts of neoliberalism and slap them together with the rational parts of socail democracy. Somehow, we'll find some kind of synthesis where you have state intervention in a way that yields full employment (or full voluntary employment anyway - with hours rolled back etc a new definition may be needed) to end the "Nightmare" period we've been under since Thatcher. But we'll still accept that things don't have to be consciously planned, sometimes we can just leave people alone to do things individually, even conduct some market actions - but in a way that the state genuinely supports people and has influence on macro policy.

Whether this constitutes a total refusal of neoliberalism, or just "Blairism minus the cowardice" is something I've not yet decided on. It is a very general outline and one I can't say I subscribe to entirely because I have to go now my time is up please e-mail me any questions before the next lecture.

The political classes hate him, primarily because they are all neoliberal, free-marketeers. A particular subsection of the white working-class dislike him because of the strange perception that he'll "bring over all the muslims and eastern europeans", in addition to not leaving the EU. A large chunk of the middle class oppose him because they suppose he'll throw into jeopardy their affluence.

However, he is very popular in University towns and cities, in addition to the support he enjoys from the dispossessed. There are also a number of older Labour voters, dissatisfied with Blairism, who want a return to the affluence that existed under Keynesianism.

Corbyn is, though, generally seen as an incompetent, and many suggest that a vote for Labour is merely a vote for change, and not necessarily out of a love for the party leader.

Middle England hates him. But middle England are cunts.

I'm not even convinced that the midlands actually exists

user, that's not what middle England is.

Middle England literally doesn't exist in physical space, right?

Like, the reason the geography of the UK is so screwed up (where 'The North' is the middle of the country and encompasses like 40% of England.) is because the middle literally does not exist in physical space. It has been absorbed and manipulated our terminology: It's just some kind of dimensional fold where everything horrible lurks. It's the reason our trains take so long using track from the victorian era: Every single team sent in to update the tracks has disappeared without a trace. The trains disappear for hours - nobody remembers but they come out the other end eventually. The vampires aren't fast enough to catch them, yet…

As neoliberalism has advanced the horrors of 'middle england' have become more pronounced. In the days of the Hammer Horror film, documentary teams were able to go in and film what purported to be fiction - but in reality covered the daily lives of the fundamentally wrong people who actually hand over money for the Daily Mail. Normal people fall in all the time - of course - most don't escape.

Why don't they pay taxes? Because the taxmen get burried alive. Why do they vote Tory despite looking so young? Because they are the undead. You think the Queen is old - she's nothing. She's a baby compared to some of these people (Why do you think she's "the kind of woman who could vote for the SDP"?), no, the people who vote Tory are those who've been imposing misery on Britons since the first wanderers across the plains arrived, and thousands of years before that. Who killed the dinosaurs? Probably our middle-English friends.

But there is a process at work here. She was one of them. She expanded middle English influence to levels not yet seen - but now we have a collapse in aggregate demand, the normal business cycle of evil. Their impetus to cause misery - their rational self interested behaviour - is causing a spiral. The middle retreats before encroaching entirely on the North. The seats run red with the blood that seeps from melting vampires. Humanity prepares for a good harvest.

But they'll be back, they're always back.

Okay this is fucking beautiful. but on a real middle England is your average 2010 lib dem voter.

Question: Does Corbyn really have a cat named Harold Wilson?
Some people seem to title photos of him with his cat as "Corbyn with his cat, Harold Wilson" but others seem to indicate he calls his cat "El Gato" (and while I can imagine his cat's "real name" could be Wilson and then he just says "The Cat" in Spanish as a quirk, that seems a level of conflict resolution that I cannot maintain internally without outside input.)

If it's Wilson, that is a sign. (He does have a statement that gives some positive stuff Wilson did jeremycorbyn.org.uk/articles/jeremy-corbyns-statement-on-the-centenary-of-harold-wilsons-birth/ , but it's from after he was made leader so I distrust it a little. My truthful inclination would be to suspect he was disappointed with the Wilson governments for compromising too readily - in view of his status as a Bennite - but you never know. Perhaps party loyalty trumps that and history cures all wounds.)

Ah, you mean a ghost - not a vampire. You're sure you heard it - but when you call everyone else in they say you're crazy. Nobody voted Lib-Dem in 2010. You get Yougov to survey the whole country, yes, that's correct. Even Tim Farron voted for the Labour candidate Jonathan Todd. You think you're going crazy, you go back to your house. It's there, floating above the bed. "Nick Clegg was so brilliant," it murmurs "I'm very tempted by the Liberal Democrats" - you stumble. Out with the phone, camera pointed. This is real, this actually happened: Someone did it, they didn't come out of nowhere. There's nothing on the screen. You hit record anyway. "The more they attack each other the more they sound like one another."

Evidence, someone's actually saying it, they admit it. An actual Lib-Dem voter. You're not crazy. Sleep on the couch, wake up, sore back, off to work. You show them the phone. You're not mad, you're not mad, if you're mad then just explain this. Empty room. No Audio. It goes on like this. Bird flies past window. Manager slips out the back. You tell them, you're not mad. You know what you saw. You're not mad, you're not mad.

It's much more comfortable here, in this padded room. These yellow walls. Nobody talks about elections anymore. That's just not the way things are done here. You couldn't even tick a ballot paper in this straight jacket anyway. You lay down, shut your eyes and prepare to drift off to sleep.

The tranquillity is disturbed only by the momentary sounding of a voice, almost imperceptibly, barely breaking through the slight tinnitus that comes with a silent room.
"It is time for something different. It is time for something better."

I was at work let me off.

I just want to say i love you socdem poster, you've consistently been the best poster in Holla Forums for a while now.

Anyone watching the thing about the Election on BBC2. Jesus Christ the Labour party needs to purge more I knew it was bad but not some MPs wanted to loose so they could get Corbyn out

You will struggle to find a Young person who will admit to voting tory and in the 18-19 bracket near impossible

Tbh most of my mates voted lib dem: not fans of banning the porns.

I dont think I have ever met a lib dem voter since the tuition fees u turn

I've met one and thats my boss.

Read Michael Roberts, you can recognize the faults of postwar "keynesianism" without eventually devolving into Blair apologia


I love you too, Anonymous.

Fortunately the degree of my apologia is limited. It's a drift (slightly) away from political determinism more than to the right.
Even if we accept that within the nature of history, Labour couldn't have implemented a truly social democratic platform from 1997-2010 Labour's performance for a party with a majority that large was obscenely cowardly. (A huge sticking point for me is not renationalising British Railways. This is a policy that even most Conservative voters support, which presented itself a perfect opportunity when Railtrack imploded, which would have appealed to the party left and membership. It was a perfect policy. But new Labour was too afraid to act, indeed, it tried to prop up railtrack long after that was a viable option.) Consider the Clark government in New Zealand by contrast - which was also firmly neoliberal, but renationalised a good amount of the things that the previous Labour government there had errantly privatised.

Have been reading Varoufakis, which I think aligns tenuously with what I'm thinking. mronline.org/2011/01/03/they-dont-make-them-like-they-used-to-why-even-the-best-post-war-economist-ended-up-a-tragic-figure/

Essentially the flaws of the postwar settlement rendered it unstable - when it collapsed, it collapsed right. I would much prefer that it had collapsed left (and I maintain that must have been possible - but due to the left being unprepared, it was always a long-shot.) but that didn't happen. So you get the neoliberal consensus. Within that consensus, the ability to shape actions at any given election is limited (because elections are so 'temporal', you're inside a historical period. You need a greater alignment of thought, circumstances, etc, to change the 'consensus' that dictates people's thinking. Fortunately the neoliberal consensus is also a flawed consensus, indeed a much more flawed consensus. Now it too appears to be collapsing and the question again would seem to be "does it collapse right or left"?

The mainstream consensus around where we're going next is a fight between Liberalism and Protectionism. To some degree perhaps I appear to have shifted right in my move towards sympathy for the liberal point of view, provided they can be reconciled to social democratic economic policy. While there is relatively good protectionist thought on the left, it seems as though that route is one that too easily crushes us in the middle. On the other hand perhaps we just let the Liberals and the Protectionists beat each other up then just clear the bodies away and set up what we want.

My taking neoliberals in good faith is more to slot them into one of my preferred narrative structures ("someone tries to do nice thing, it backfires horribly and becomes their worst nightmare") rather than because I like them. I mean, lots of Libertarians are arguing in good faith rather than thinking "ah yes, I think I'll act against the self interest of everyone with an income below a million dollars today." and it doesn't stop them being insufferable. Most neoliberals are stupid and wrong (Even the ones with perfectly nice goals), with an intolerable dose of smugness on top of that.

Roberts I always find odd. Partially it's because he doesn't seem to categorize Keynesians as doggedly as I do. (i.e. neo-Keynesian/new-Keynesian/post-Keynesian.) But in particular I find myself stuck with
Since the counter most obvious to me is that this is artificial full employment through statistical manipulation. Someone who has given up looking for work because it isn't there is still unemployed, and so on.
Tying into this.
I feel it's incredibly likely that if we chart this against the near full employment of the postwar period we'd find it didn't hold. (Certainly for wages. Productivity is where the question mark lies.)
I have a secondary concern around revolution - unrelated to fear of the masses taking power. That's simply it's limited applicability in daily concerns. It's very easy to turn a generalized weird-Keynesianism towards politics right now. It's much harder to synthesise revolutionary insurrection with Jeremy Corbyn. (And underlying that, a presumption it should be left to smarter, more attentive people.)

As a final note a drift to the right would be quite an amusing thing in one term: If we presume people who are comfortable are more right wing, it would immediately make sense but be supremely ironic - since my comfort is rooted in a sense of ease as the sun appears to be setting on a period of history I thought was eternal, and moreover the prospects for our side to rise next time seem stronger than ever.

Good heavyweight read this is lads


So you basically just support welfare capitalism with some nationalisation thrown in?

Brit succdem is a good poster, he puts the effort into writing posts. The fact that you're only shitposting about the flag is a bit pathetic.

it's a very long story.
To term it welfare capitalism ignores that a key element isn't even welfare (i mean, that's key too, but we had a much nicer dole system under Thatcher and it didn't suddenly make 10+% unemployment acceptable.), it's an approach to macroeconomic management. Then of course the swathes of nationalisation and general attitude of interventionism. extending to council houses and so on. (I want to emphasise that this is a specific worldview distinct from a more lukewarm soft-left "economic realism but also spend more" approach that is quite common in Labour, but I'm far too tired to do it in a way that doesn't sound hipster as fuck.)

Then there's the question of supporting capitalism. To which the answer can be read as you please - I would say I don't support capitalism and would prefer the death of it, but that I don't see that death coming in my lifetime regardless of what I do. Meanwhile the applicability of social democratic thought (and general history) is much broader. I see a split between the long term support (for the abolition of capitalism) and the short term policy (which is to campaign and vote for social democrats to provide a palliative.). Since we can assume that all else being equal I'm going to SocDem it up until I'm in the grave, you can judge for yourself whether the lack of enthusiasm in the background means anything. (I would however raise that the line between this outlook in social democratic terms, and the general outlook of a 'democratic socialist' in the Labour party is very thin indeed…)

this post needs to be completely rewritten i think but i'm far too tired now.

Productivity continued practically unbroken up until the 2008 recession, after which it has begun growing very slowly.

Now, labor prices, THAT immediately died in the neolib era, as wages and other compensation for workers has stubbornly refused to grow an inch since the 1970s neolib policy coup.

I lived in the outskirts of Brummie for a year and this post is sadly quite true. At least in the poor parts of Wales such as around Merthyr Tydfil there's pretty scenery too look out at from the confines of your 70s concrete block. The little sliver of land that makes up the so called mid-lands is a bloody dreary place there's nothing there apart from out of town shopping malls, greggs and burnt our Kebab shops.
Also heres a funny site I came across where people write in the definitions of the shit-holes in which they live in across the country

Budget today lads. Who's ready for more cuts and austerity? Wonder what he's going to cut this year. Wouldn't surprise me if some environment stuff got cut and then they defend it by saying that leaving the EU would allow us to more environmental so they can afford to cut it.

Said every revolutionary ever at some point

Yet another example of capitalism solving crises.

Why do you still INSIST on trying to do away with a system that is providing people with constant rising living standards?


Homelessness could be eradicated right now if we moved people into all those empty houses

Not without damaging the economy. Capitalism solves problems while stopping the economy grinding to a halt.




well you'll forgive me if i dont care about the financial wellbeing of the landowner

good quality bait, I laughed. 7/10

Bit late but thread song youtube.com/watch?v=1n5_nCBgGCc

Will we ever come back from this?

What do you lads think of the threat from terrorism over the Christmas period? Is it safe to go to Christmas Markets?

The railcard policy will finish Labour, should have voted for Liz Kendall

Probably won't go the markets but thats just because our ones a bit shit not because of terrorists. The chance of getting hit by one is so minimal it's not worth thinking about imo.

I used to think about this a lot: could have anyone who was up against Corbyn have won?

The Sinai ISIS chapter seem remarkably resilient, despite a heavy crackdown by Egyptian security forces. One would think that, sadly, Egypt has a lot more of this bloodshed to come

Young person here who voted Tory.




Burnham possibly. Though the question is whether or not he would have done anything besides accelerate the decline of the centre.

Ah fuck. I can't believe you've done this.

What? God these sick dubs?

Damn it.

Y tho?

I thought the Tories would fuck up the Brexit negotiations which would cause us to have a hard Brexit. Which is what I wanted. I thought if Corbyn got a chance to negotiate he would probably give the EU a lot of what it wanted and so we would end up with a proverbial soft Brexit.

why do you want a hard brexit?

I don't like the idea of being inside a giant market which in which actually influencing law for the whole union is near impossible because it can be vetoed by any member state.

oh so you have autism

Okay, that is actually a nuanced stance. Two things: one have you voted for the 'KIP or been a member/supported them before.
Two how do you put yourself on the political spectrum?

Most likely.

I've never voted for UKIP or been a member. I was previously a member of the Liberal Democrats and the Labour parties but I am currently not a part of any political party and I don't think I will be joining one any time soon.

I am honestly not completely sure how I see myself politically, I think the term communitarian fits me the most but its not something that is really used in British politics or politics generally, being a more socially descriptive term.

The EU is shit because UK neoliberals made it that way.

It was an franco-german bank cartel from the start

Yes but there was a period of succdem politicians in the continent that would have moved the EU leftwards but got cucked by perfidious albion


Was just walking down regent street when police cleared us out. I bet it's another false alarm.

*turns on capital investment*

I'm all for a rock hard brexit but a Tory brexit is just retarded and I'm sorry you fell for the meme.
A poorly planned and Tory lead hard brexit will fuck us over, big time. A hard brexit would be fine if it was planned out better but instead we now get the UK hastily bending over backwards to suck US market cock because the Tories suddenly realised we ain't going to be welcome in the EU market.
A well throughout soft brexit under Labour is far better than what ever the fuck May is currently doing.


My view on it is that we could always scrap the things we have with the USA in the future, but a treaty we have with the EU would be much harder to undo in the future. I think what we get now will basically remain the status quo for a long time between us and the EU.

any kind of brexit will inevitably have negative consequences and if labour is presiding over it they'll get the bad rep


Does anyone know if there is anyone in the Labour party currently who would be able to replace Corybn/ McDonnell when the times comes. I know there are some Corbyn supporting MP's now but is there anyone who is more than that and more Marxist/demsoc

bear in mind in the eu only the uk tories were willing to sign ttip, which would have allowed govts to be sued for any losses private corps incurred by law changes etc. the uk will sign something awful and labour will not be able to repeal it without getting sued to oblivion by whoever.

Chris Williamson is impressive

Looking like it's nothing. No evidence of shots and only minor injury to someone falling over or some shit. Either a falso alarm or the worlds worst terrorist.

I have heard of him but is there anyone younger? I hear Clive Lewis is okay he has said he is a "proud socialist" but seems just like a normal socdem and doesnt seem to have any true socialist ideas. Also he supports the EU and was in the TA

Eh his EU support is acceptable since he is a DiEM25 bloke.

Fair enough but he still doesn't seem a serious left winger compared to the likes of McDonnell

McDonnell's a nice guy, a very decent human but he seems to get bullied far too easily

Oh no he isn't.

Also there is Richard Leonard, but he is no marxist.

He defends himself alot better than Corbyn though who does come across quite weak at times

Richard Leonard seems like a classic Trade Unionist, nothing wrong with that but still could be a lot better. However in comparison with past Scottish Labour leaders and the general state of the Scottish Labour party he is a godsend

Also tbh I have heard the new crop of SLab MPs are pretty leftist. Tbh I think a new leftist will present themselves given time.

I just want British NazBol, is that so much to ask?


Right lads it looks like we've got a cathcuck on our hands


Tbh this, the only real major difference is that you can ignore everything the pope says: SO WOOO CONDOMS FOR ALL.

Also even Khan is saying Labour will win London local gov; on that note: how the fuck is he the most popular mayor in the history of the post?

Hasn't had time to fuck up yet, the overblown, overpublicised terrorist attacks, and the fact he's muslim.

That was previously true but Anglicanism has over the last 40 years or so become a lot more liberal and decentralised compared to the modern Catholic church.

There is no such thing as neoliberalism, other than a word for placeless fears.

This reads like a poundland Sam Kriss.


If you ask me, Only Fools and Horses in its entirety serves as a parable against humanism. No matter how hard Del Boy and Rodders try, no matter how ingenious their plans, or innovative their techniques, their Peckham roots serve to hinder any progress they could make. Del Boy is portrayed as an incredibly naïve, but kind hearted individual who has swallowed neoclassical propaganda of the Thatcher era hook, line, and sinker.

Boycie is analogous to Porky, blaming Del when his often fairly intelligent schemes fail to bring him financial reward.


It's the cultural marxism of the left, it only exists as a vague spectre, encompassing everything, yet being nothing in particular.

Your post made David Harvey turn around in his grave and he's not even dead yet.

Neoliberalism is generally used to mean economic liberalism. The "neo" is used to distinguish it from the liberalism of the pre-war era.

Just because his cons never work doesn't make him naive.

Hot take.

It's generally used to mean everything from antidepressants to techno-dance music. The only commonality in its use, and therefor being its meaning, is to indicate that something is part of a conspirational ideology.


here's another one: read a fucking book

"the current state of history / ideological hegemony, beginning around the late 1970s."

more generally it obviously extrapolates from a slightly longer winded version of this

there's strictly speaking no conspiracy, any more than there was a conspiracy to create social democratic welfare states after the end of WW2 and try to maintain full employment until the 1970s. A lot of actors converged on similar policy decisions, and often there was a conscious plan involved - but it wasn't a conspiracy, it was just a policy, a worldview, an approach. you might as well say capitalism doesn't actually exist and covers everything from anime DVDs to coca cola slave farms.

"Neoliberalism" is a term dating back to the 1930s, referring to Autistrian-school market fundies like Hayak or Mises, and ideologically similar people. There is nothing vague about it.

"Cultural Marxism" isn't particularly vague either, referring to Frankfurt School-influenced postmodern critical theory, and was originally coined as a term by the members of that group referring to themselves. The fact that it is utterly contrary to the principles of Marxism, in no way changes the fact that so many braindead shitlibs now embrace it.


Liberals oppose the industrialisation and mass-production of culture? Liberals rail against ideas of cultural Marxism, considering that they're the people behind the Culture Industry.

They imagine that flailing their hands at popculture is what's needed to change the present state of things, playing into the bread & circuses approach to "politics", instead of focusing on the economic struggles that have historically wrought every victory for labor worth mentioning.

Is there a way to push for sympathetic Brits to push for Irish unification now Brexit is happening?

Not properly no, also Brexit =/= 32 county republic, unionists are still a majority of the population.

Although with Adams going, Sinn Féin is de-IRAafying.

Yeah but fuck unionists. I'm talking about the rest of the UK

So you're supporting the enlargement of a nation for the sake of it? Isn't pretty much the definition of LARPing?

I'm seeing a current developing here, and it seems the UK isn't going to exist much longer

Those "union trash" make up 62% of the population according to a Border Poll poll done like a month ago.





Try and take my 'tatters again you fucker and this time we'll hit number 10.

They sang the Red Flag literally right before Jerusalem at that rally. There's probably footage of it.

I retract my statement then.

As a burger, I so, so wish we had something like Momentum in the news, stirring the pot inside the Democratic Party. Democratic Cops of America doesn't even come close.

It's actually quite nice that every conference since Corbyn became leader is more crowded and performs a better rendition of the Red Flag and Jerusalem.
2015: youtube.com/watch?v=a0NB10Ttqj4
2016: youtube.com/watch?v=-62-3V2TID0
2017: youtube.com/watch?v=-SHhXMzXFl0
(if someone can find the footage of the songs at the 2017 conference without sky news talking over it that would be great)

Here's an even better one linked at the bottom of the other story:
I can only dream such pants-shitting terror one day reverberates across the shillscape that is burger political media

t. Jimmy Dore.

We have to show up lads.

Considering the amount of crime Muslims and Blacks commit, why should we tolerate their presence here?

nice bait

Not an argument. Why should we tolerate the rape gangs, the crime, the terrorism, the crassness?

Off topic.
Should I watch "that mitchell and webb look"?
I loved peep show, but the funniest shit in that show was without a doubt super hans.
Where I can get a bit more of super hans?

All of it you mean.
Talk to any working class person of working age not from an ethnic voting group like the Pakistanis or Carribeans and not in university and you're going to hear about "Labour's" Rotherham, Diane Abbott comments about whites like her comments about Finns and how Labour hates whites, working class people and men in that order.
They're going to hate the Tories too of course, but the disgust with Labour is real and intense.

I mean you should watch TMAWL; especially "THE EVENT" series of sketches.

And btw, Superhans is actually a DJ that does gigs: he came to manch a bit ago and I didn't get tickets in time.

Except you don't unless you're extremely online.
Do you really think that all the labour voters at the last election fit that description?



But no, retweeting Britain First is what makes him unwelcome in our country.



Have you guys voted yet?

The horror, won't nobody think of the "middle-class" and "small businesses"?!

Was blue skys all fuckin day today by me. Kinda feel had off.

Muslim feelings being the prime concern of UK government proves Britain First right.

Almost slipped on the pavement a few times but i came home with snow in my hair and that was pretty nice.

Such an insightful post, do elaborate fellow falsefl…comrade.

Why is Corbyn degraded for supporting the IRA? Why is this problematic?

Because the IRA launched a bombing campaign in Britain

That's not the most pertinent point, there would still be butthurt about it regardless of the bombing campaign because Northern Ireland is still part of the UK and it's framed as a conflict against Britain on our soil, rather than an unification movement for the Irish.

It's not seen as some far flung colony, it's represented on the national flag so "we" can never be wrong.

Because liberals only like terrorism when it's the state doing it.


"Every day labour goes to the left".

Corbyn's a qt

corbyn needs to go gym and get tonk

The dude's like 60 something, leave him be.

shut up cunt i want him to win

Yes. Tbh I did what I did last time and read through them and then checked what momentum picked: got the same again.

Also I love they all tag eachother in their statements.

He's got that dad strength though.

Kek, David Davis is saying he will quit of Damien Green gets the sack for having p0rns on his PC.

What a time we live in,


It's amazing how basic bitch DemSoc Bennism has basically become so terrifying to some people.

c y b e r c o r b y n i s m

horseshoe theory confirmed


Lol eat shit tories

term ends in two weeks so its not all that bad

all this shit over Brexits effects on the Irish border is great fun. hope the DUP pull their support for the government and we have a Christmas election.

Nice one

It wont be a christmas election, but early january would be spicy.

You must be 18 years old to browse Holla Forums.

Why couldn't Corbyn just say he was pro-Brexit. He would be Prime Minister by now.

The ambiguity works better when you remember how fractured the electorate is.
Cosmopolitan social liberals in well off constituencies can be brought over to voting Labour from the Conservatives by fear of Brexit, while there's still a bit of a "nowhere else to go" strength in the poorer pro-Brexit constituencies. (i.e. they're still voting Labour, even though if you mapped many of their preferences they may well be "ideal Tory voters")

If he outright says he opposes Brexit, he might lose those poorer constituencies. If he outright says he's for it, he may disillusion liberals and push them back into a position of being swing-voters.

He'll probably have to take a position eventually, but any damage done by that position can be mitigated by leaving the government floundering as they're unable to score any hits on a consistently moving opposition.

Wow. Dumb response. He could have meant college. Fuck right off.

Anons why tho…

I love Scotland. I only hate Brexit because now I won't be able to move there one day…

You still probs will lad…

You don't seem to realise how toxic brexit is, and how entrenched the positions are.

Wtf, we just got a brexit deal?


hmm I wonder for what purpose downing street would claim a maximum despite no official maximum?

I'm fucking dumb they claimed 35-39 not 35-45

not like it makes any difference, it'll be way higher

Just saw someone unironically say that the local government in Coventry is filled with Communists.

So the Tories fought tooth-and-nail to maintain the status quo?


honestly anglosphere needs to stop shitting up the world

im sad to inform you sir but you're fucking autistic.


Before we were half in the EU and next we will be half out


The stupidity is palpable.

Story old as time.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean

Read Hegel. Advancing might have been a better term but means the same shit

Wow this shit is really going to win over the Working class if you can't sum said point up in a marketable point then it's pointless in the modern age

Some shitposter who has a leftcomm flag is defo a member of the proletariat.

One individual example means very little in the grand scheme of things you try explaining Hegel to a factory worker or bricklayer

It doesn't mean anything.

I am Preuße from Brit/pol/.

I'm secretly a leftcom.

Hence why I only say that to wanks on leftypol.

Which one tho?

He fucks around in the brit /r9k/ thread aswell.


Anyone else see this? He openly advocates for mass debt cancellation of third world states.

so is someone here actually from /brit/ or is it a meme.

also this thread has been linked on 4chan's /int/ brit thread.

I post on both, I'm pretty sure a few of us do

Interesting, in disgust or support?

No idea why you'd link here over there though. Just seems like asking for trouble. I'm sad enough to post on /britfeel/ though.

notionally in support but in an atmosphere of disgust


Tbh we should accelerate global warming to fuck up the gulf stream to finally get some white christmases again.

Also anyone remember that year it snowed tae fuck on Easter?

It's a poor attempt at doing it round me. Wish it snowed enough to shut businesses down though.

Have you read British comments on youtube? They even say that the Tories are politically correct leftys and it doesn't help when you have demagogues like Peter Hitchens say that the Conservative Party aren't really a conservative party.

I'll bet most of those comments are from ignorant burgers.

t. ignorant burger :-(

That revamped UK communist party logo looks awful, I'm guessing they're a bunch of LARPing SJWs?

Disney truely are taking over everything.

No they are about 900 eurocomms that think they are relevant because they are the "TRUE HEIR" to the CPGB. The greatest influence they have ever had is through Corbyn.

Why didnt you go to the boatyard?

tfw get to big jacket and ushanka to ☭TANKIE☭ larp when it snows

Honestly have seen a lot of people walking around in Ushankas with hammers and sickles on them: not sure if normalisation of soviet iconography or capitalist appropriate á la Che.

It was snowing like fuck round mine before, but not sticking. I wore a hammer and sickle ushanka to work today, plus a snood to cover my face.



Hope you all get cancer.

I mean statistically it is the largest killer in the UK so you will likely get it too.

The Conservative Party isn't a conservative party though

I don't think you know what that word means.

EH in the Cameronite era that may be true, May is defo 100% a conservative through and through.

Also Hitchens is cyrpto our guy, perhaps he is reverting to his trot roots.

In what way do you believe that she is conservative? She's socially liberal, supports the advancement of social justice, is in favour of equality and is utterly against hierarchy. This isn't even taking into account her complete lack of regard for our ancient civil liberties in her advancement of the Snoopers Charter and other similar legislation. She was one of the earliest voices in the Conservative Party to call for a shift to the left. At best she's libertarian but even that isn't true considering how she promised and proposed further regulation and state interference into the energy and housing markets. She was good at appealing to genuine right-wingers before the 2017 General Election but that's all.

She is a classic ONC, read some british political history.

They're anti-egalitarian, pro establishment, pro tradition, pro hierarchy and jingoistic. But I guess I'm arguing with someone who probably thinks Churchill was the best prime minister and that Orwell was a Tory.

As for demagogue, all of Hitchen's arguments and musings can be boiled down to appeals to emotion and for a loftier time back when the nation stood for something and people had pride or some chauvinistic nonsense.

Well done on lacking any argument whatsoever.

So, not a conservative then. One Nation Conservatives have never been genuine conservatives, especially modern day ONCs like Theresa May.

Despite pushing through egalitarian legislation for the past seven years.

And the establishment, as you have all freely admitted ITT, is neoliberal, not conservative.

Jingoism isn't a part of conservative, any ideology can be jingoistic, some of the most jingoist nations/polities of the 20th century were left-wing. Regardless, conservatism in this country has traditionally favoured pacifism and only encouraged military action when necessary, even back in the imperial era.

Well done on conjuring up a convenient strawman out of absolutely nothing.

a political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.

Peter Hitchens is not a political leader, nor is he a populist that appeals to popular desires - what he says often puts himself at odds with larger society, and he often even puts himself at odds with his own fellow "right-wingers" by showing support for Keynesianism or by attacking """right-wing""" figures such as T. May, Farage and Trump. If he was a demagogue (as Corbyn is) he would be a populist akin to Nigel Farage and would be standing for political office. As it happens he just publishes his thoughts in a blog that often puts him at odds with the majority of the population.

Okay, so you've never actually listened to or read one of Hitchens arguments? To you it's just a figure as you identify as being "on the right" so you'll throw a bunch of negative words at him even when they're not true.

Interesting how the late Chris Hitchens still had a boner for Trotsky, even though Trotskyism grew out of the fashion past the 60s.

Don't know about Peter Hitchens association with Trotskyism, but still interesting to read the other Hitchens opinion on him.


The amount of no-true-Scotsmaning is immensely high. Tell me how perhaps one of the most major strands of british conservatism is not conservative enough for you? Let me guess Disraeli was a liberal or something?

Also what is socially liberal about banning porn, undertaking a social policy based abject moralism (like the illegalisation of legal highs) and restricting civil liberties for the sake of "counterterrorism".

Peter was a "revolutionary socialist" before he was in a motorcycle crash in '69.

You can get away with wearing a soviet ushanka if you say you're Russian, or actually are. I say this even in burgerland,
the most avid right-winger lets it slide if you're celebrating your heritage. God bless spooks.

Plus ushanka are practical and warm as fuck.

Eh I have just seen randos, maybe it is some " fashion " trend.

Also yes, ushankas are practical as fuck: the Russians are anything if practical in most of their lifestyle choices.

Lads, explain to this burger the significance of Max Clifford, who recently died in prison. It appears that before you all found out he was a pedo, he was openly a media parasite and merchant of lies (i.e, a celebrity publicist). With that career, it seems the pedo stuff was just the shit icing on the cunt cake, so why would some people act like the cake didn't always appear to be a cunt?

You really must stop building strawmen if you wish to discuss politics at a decent level. No, I don't think Mogg is a conservative, nor do I even like him. I have been shilling against him on 4chan since mongoloids first started to adopt him as a "right-wing" figure.

There's a large amount of "no-true-Scotsmaning" because the Conservative Party has practically never been conservative. If you keep asserting that an Italian is Scottish, then I am going to say that he's not a Scotsman. If you're going to call a party that's not remotely conservative "conservative", then I am going to say it's not. The "Conservative" Party has always been lacking in any principles and integrity, and has only existed as a platform for the sons of gentlemen to obtain office.


The other user dealt with your preposterous claims that the Conservative Party aren't conservative so I'll swiftly deal with the remainder he lost patience with dealing…

Oh wow, such sophistry, I feel bad that your mother has to put up with you.

I noticed you made another post boasting how contrarian you are and how you seem to know better than everyone else be it Holla Forums or us so I'll leave you to it mastermind, nothing fruitful can be gained from massaging your ego.

So he couldn't even construct a sentence? How nice

You do realise that shouting "STRAWMAN" is not an argument, especially since the fallacies I invoked weren't even strawmen you dolt.

And I am not calling an Italian a Scot, I am calling a Glaswegian one: sure they are also a Glaswegian but that doesn't make them any less scottish. Just because you can't acknowledge there are subsets to ideologies doesn't mean they don't exist.

Also love you don't deal with the point with the complete lack of continuity between the policy regimes of Cameron and May.


Neoliberalism is an economic standpoint, "conservative economics" do not exist outside of fiscal conservative: a standpoint perfectly congruent with neoliberal economics. Unless you are going to start arguing that the only true conservatives are those that advocate feudalism and then you need to pull your head out of your arse and look up the difference between normativism and relativism.

This but unironically. I would be highly amused to hear what, in the other poster's opinion, currently qualifies as conservative/rightist/etc.

No, it's leftist sensibilities being confused for a particular exterior thing.


kill yourself

Topkek, this is a spicy mem.


Why is our politics so full of fucking nonces?

God could someone look MORE like a young tory?

Did they deserve it /LeftyBritPol/?

Do it again bomber Harris


Some kek worthy stuff in this tbh.

Even better yet:
Can Jeremy Corbyn reinvent himself as a Trot Trump?

Permanent campaign more like permanent revolution am I right?

So, it's been 6 months. How is /ourboy/ doing?

Wait what? Tovarisch it has been 2 years.

But well tbh, the polls are gonna poll, internal divisions are either mending or being eroded. McDonnell seems to be building up better and better economic planning every second and the tories are disintegrating due to Brexit.

On a local level labour are net gains this year, though the lib dems are doing the best in that regard.

This is just completely ahistorical. Literally from the beginning major conservative thinkers embraced economic liberalism. Conservatism is not synonymous with being some kind of feudalist, pro-monarchy ultra-reactionary.


Seriously kill yourself you brainlet


why separate?

a group of faggots united is stronger than a single one


not even antiDeutsch but eyyy

Corbyn will get cucked hard. He's got big capitalists, MI5 the army, Israel and KSA arrayed against him. Even if he wins (he won't) he'll either get told to wind his neck in or get the bullet.

Lad, you do realise who takes over if he does?..

Nah it will be "Friend of Israel" Emily Thornberry.
There will be a purge.

Excellent analysis of Labour/Momentum by The Real News Network, thought my bong comrades would like it.

Labour needs a Corbynite night of the long knives.

I'm almost certain that McDonnell is preparing a radical reorganisation of our entire system if labour ever comes into power. He's a Marxist, he understands the pressures that will placed upon Labour as soon as they take power, and I've no doubt he has researched all possible ways to utilise the levers of power in order to prevent some kind of palace coup from taking place.

On the first day of his premiership, Corbyn will warn against "saboteurs", "vested-interests" and other reactionary elements, and thus the people will be keenly aware of the threats to his leadership.

I don't know whether or not McDonnell is some sort of master of theory, but considering how he has helped to consolidate the left's control over the party machine, I'm beginning to think he may be one.

He has read the SI, considering he is using Debordian methods to run economic models.

I'm not sure he is really, he keeps backing himself into a corner on deficit spending unneccessarily when Corbyn won the leadership talking about how QE proved there is no shortage of money.

Gotta breath some life back into this thread so heres an episode of Harry Hill's TV Burp

Honestly when I see pics like that I can't tell where they come from. It is like the fact so many Corbyn communist memes are from teh far right which we have appropriated.

I hope this is true


We all know he's actually singing The Internationale in the shower.

I mean, it's a shitty thing to do but the fact you can be tried and sentenced for it is ridiculous.


What the fuck

Wtf where did all the workers go in the "conservative vision"?

I know you guys hate idpol on here but sometimes you can get literally Holla Forums-tier in your fear of the SJW boogeyman. Selectively reporting stories (to downplay racism) is straight out of their playbook.

archived for later use.

Vandalize this shit

Wasn't the nicest thought to wake upto this morning.

This makes actually 0 sense. We can see that the robot workers still exist in tory land and they're even going to take over driving and delivery. Is everyone going to get a job either standing around with headsets on like idiots, shaking hands with robots for some reason or operating a 3d printer?


You see, the robots are sad, and so are the workers…

But if you look at the Tory paradise, all the drones and workers are happy!

It's Free Real Estate!


ah yes, the rewards of cutting infrastructure investment to meet a target in the most arbitrary economic variable of all.
at least the future doesn't seem to have banks.

It keeps getting better
Election next spring maybe?

Do it again Harris Bomberguy.

this is how you'll look like in 20 years


Pal, this is exactly what McDonnell and Leonard have been talking about for ages…

before Brexit: dead-end for labour now that blairism has run it's course and is dead in the water

after Brexit: pretty much the only thing that could reliably deliver a Brexit because May is such an inconceivable fuck up

Such a fundamental misunderstanding of how robots and automation kill jobs in a capitalist economy, no wonder Tories are such brainlets.

Personally the end state of this is either:

1. Governments requiring larger and larger portions of companies' Boards of Directors to be owned by something that represents employees, perhaps also requiring revenue-sharing (essentialy a clean route to true communism).

2. Governments trying to emulate China's half-capitalism and failing spectacularly (as China presently is due to a combination of overregulation of public banking with underregulation of workmans comp/safety laws) resulting in another traditional socialist wave as things splinter apart. This is arguably what America is becoming, with it's rising authoritarianism (which dates back to Nixon, the same person who normalized Chinese relations), public service cuts and unbreakable Republican Supermajority (effectively becoming a one-party state like China).

3. Governments putting up barriers to trade in an attempt to be more "green", more secure and/or try to keep economic growth up. Currently these battles seem impossible in the present system where industries are dominated by soft ones like finance and software, but I believe as the older banks start breaking down (not necessarily in a panic) governments will not know what to do and turn on each other. This more or less creates Holla Forums -ish Not Socialism. See the pissing matches over Unicredit and DB in the past year, such things cannot continue without bourgeoisie elements being spooked.

How the fuck did this get approved? If you're going to go so far to suggest drone delivery then why not also suggest flying cars? Oh wait, because then that would expose just how much of a fucking joke that entire image is. If he's not going to promise an ENGLISH helicopter in every ENGLISH home then he's no conservative and he's not getting my vote.

(I just wanted an excuse to post helicopters)

Interested about this one, what do you mean exactly?

who would've thought that's even possible

China has been the only large country to grow by an appreciable margin in the past twenty years, so naturally other countries with stagnant growth want to emulate them.

The most obvious is America, who is led by two parties that more or less embrace Chinese-style mercantilism - populist Republicans want tariffs on foreign imports (eg metals) while Democrats want state subsidies for certain industries (eg electric automobiles). This was not the case twenty years ago when Republicans were still going hard on pure tax breaks and Democrats still pushing the "target" model mentioned here . It's only now with the public failure of Obamacare (at least the "create a market" part of it - the individual mandate which Republicans will shortly repeal in their new tax bill) that Dems are moving towards a more subsidy-heavy approach. On the GOP side, it's only now with the public failure of Free Trade are they being forced to "get tough" on trade as they did with Reagan (unsurprisingly, Trump's Commerce Dept is filled with former Reagan era bureaucrats).

As it applies directly to banking itself, America faces the same problem China faces: rising debts. In China it's largely through shadow banks and property, while in America it's things like student loans and credit cards. Policy is largely the same here, with people STILL being told to spend everything to keep the economy moving, yet all that's happening is that more debt is being created. This can't continue and either results in cash flow problems within banks (triggering a panic) or it causes a long-term slide as people effectively become zombies unable to get credit. To be fair America manages this much better than China, but the basic elements are there. The results will be the same and demonstrates capitalism's inherent weakness. Politicians won't admit that though, so they'll continue trying to do things aimed at getting people to spend more money (such as tax breaks for people investing money, a thing China did in 2013 and which Republicans have in their new tax bill) with disastrous results.

Politically, Republicans control the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches through Trump and the Congress. Democrats need to unseat 49 Republicans to get control, which is unlikely even if they make gains inside heavily blue states. This is affected by new laws Trump might pass, like a national Voter ID law or new restrictions complicating how felons can get their rights (in particular to vote) restored. Meanwhile Trump can play the protectionist card, and only has to hold out through the 2020 redistricting when his party can just gerrymander themselves into a permanent position of power. Such a thing would not be unprecedented, it existed from 1860-1913. Democrats will be contained into the cities again, if trends continue.

It is, when it's applied to depositors. When someone can't pull loans from their bank (say to go invest in the stock market or a college education like their state news media told them to do) they will find another avenue, creating shadow banking. Likewise, Chinese bankers have realized all their depositors want to withdrawal their deposits and exchange them for USD-redeemable items (like stocks or US Treasury Bonds) which is why China now has strict controls on capital outflows, which is what caused everyone there ti invest in *coins causing Bitcoin to be worth $20k now. Of course, the bankers themselves can cash out because they can just buy an American visa for $1,000,000.

America is in a similar position, but is managing it better since people aren't trying to get money out of the country. In particular one piece of regulation applies here: the inability for student loans to be written off in (government) bankruptcy courts. This totally, utterly screws one entire generation of people (black, white, rich, poor) while bankers make a huge amount of cash in the near term. But as the overall %age of people with student debts grow, industries (auto manufacturers, mortgage lenders, etc) will slowly see reductions in business leading to them demanding more protectionism and subsidy from the government. Banks themselves will remain untouched, except people who try to escape their student debts will be fully punished by whatever government-supplied instruments debt collectors can get their hands around (like wage garnishing, repossession, etc).

Both will inevitably create another crisis in capitalism.

Tbh the same student debt issues are in place except they are going to cause government default: since we will soon hit the first batch of 20-year write-off students.

literally a meme, it can only exist as long as government allows it to exist

China has strict capital controls since forever

where are dem proofs billy?
bitcoin is now worth 20k because of the same reasons uber is worth 70 billions
not enough avenues for profitable investment

rich people don't take student loans dumbfuck

This doesn't refute my point. Nothing you said did.

Not 1%ers, but it's now spread into upper middle class households due to the supply of seats at the top 20 colleges being capped causing prices to spike. Of course who causes this cap - the college administrators who are usually public employees. And this problem only exists in the first place because colleges can pick applicants from anywhere, rather than a preset geographical area like K12 schools are. The problem is only getting worse as more and more people apply for the same number of seats, meaning richer and richer people suddenly find themselves unable to fully afford their childrens' college educations. It only has to affect the bottom 50% of society for the economy to stop working.


Why are they dressed as nuns?

those are hijabs

cuz they're in a church, duh


what's /leftybritpol/ stance on poisoning reservoirs?

strongly in favour

no joke I hate papists more than muslims, at least muslims aren't giving a portion of their income to a "religion" that runs a fucking bank

nice strawman, no one cares about the headwear

Oh its because they're Muslims. I see.

Well I'd take a Muslim over a Holla Forumsyp any day.

Muslims praising Allah in St Pauls

I don't give a shit where they're praising Allah.

some muslim lolis in a christian cathedral are supposed to trigger me?
lel, I'm not a christcuck, I would nail Muhammad on the same cross with Christ
whatever u say about romans, but they had style with their Crucifixions

Because you dont care about this nation, its traditions, its future, or its people. To you England is just a patch of dirt.

I would rather have 900 Muslims than one Holla Forumsyp redditor.

But I do.

The British Empire is hardly something to be proud of, and the Monarchy should be dissolved. So true, I really don't give a shit. England has always been a hodge podge of cultures replacing cultures before them.

But I do care about its people.

Bloody hell! Where did all these Nazis come from?!?!?!

Ah yes, the good traditions, like when we had witch hunts worse than the Americas.

Funnily enough that's Labour party policy

meant for

Doesn't matter anymore

stop reading cheap fanatsy novels and learn our history faggot

Oh here we have some Holla Forumsyp LARPing as some cultural christian without knowing how the fuck the CoE works or even having read the bible. Tbh you lot are the worst kind of people going: you act like bloody Americans and don't respect the culture of the Church of England whatsoever.

Also you realise that this coir is a part of a larger cultural exchange programme going on at St Paul's?

GTFO you redditor.

In fairness, English cultural christians that actually take the CoE super seriously realize the CoE is fucked and just become Puritans in America. Just like it has been for three if not four centuries now.

Honestly lads, Brits from all sides of the political spectrum can agree on this. Also I believe we'd all like to see our parliament literally hung rather than just figuratively

Yeah that's bullshit, the Mayflower were Puritans "fleeing" the religious tolerance of the Elizabethan and pre-Republican Stuart eras. The CoE is founded on the policy of religious tolerance, it had to be: there's a reason the creed states "we believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church"; because it was a syncratic fusion of the catholic tradition with the protestant school of thought. The Puritans and the other wanks we thankfully told to piss off to America are just weirdo lutherans that think there were giant rock monsters 6000 years ago who helped Noah build the arc.

*sits on you

Remember that the church of Latter-Day Saints unironically believes the catholic church to be the literal (as in actual, real) continuation of the Roman Empire who killed Jesus (and not judas who is just a scapegoat by the corrupt Roman government). There's a reason why Holla Forums is mostly Americans.

*dopamine decreases as it's clear I'm at the literal bottom of this hierarchy*

1/10 nothing compared to George Galloway's sub cat fetish.

With Corbyn and Chavez it is clock o'clock, as revolutionary gommunism turns history an entire Platonic year.

I happily had forgotten about this pile of shit

Imagine being so spooked that a group of children who believe in a different deity than your ancestors singing at a memorial service for people literally burnt alive because porky couldn't bear to look at an ugly building actually upsets you.

hey dude, any good reading material on the history?

Does anyone have a list of MPs that could be the future of the Labour party after John McDonnell and Corybn. I'm worried after they are gone we will be left with the "soft left" who have branded themselves as supporters of Corybn but still "capitalism can be fixed" people. There are a few MPs in the Socialist Campaign Group but none of them seem suitable.

Isn't the cycle:

Don't say that, because it's not correct. If backed into the right corner capitalists will quickly turn on each other to save themselves. This happened in the 80s with Japan and is happening today with China. Look at all the industries that supported the TPP, which was the neoliberal "targeted" attempt at containing China's economic influence (where their previous attempt the WTO had failed). Now Trump is walking in with Tariffs, by and large nobody is telling him no (Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer D-NY went so far to block his Commerce Dept appointees until the investigations on Chinese trade practices conclude, an explicit way of telling the President to hurry up). Even the neoliberals play into it by promoting green politics, because true green politics demands local power generation and not imported oil.

Capitalists only cooperate when they are all making a lot of money and business is good. Right now despite all the financial support of markets most western economies are just barely stagnant. During the next recession blood will spill, bourgeoisie will panic and barriers will go up as some of them try working with the proletariat rather than working with each other. Their nature is to backstab, so this is completely expected. Delusional greed can quickly become unstoppable fear, just look at 4/biz/ right now since BTC is crashing.

For clarity, we can see their nature in the oil industry. If you can remember, since about 2010 Saudi Arabia has tried to keep a controlling stake on the global oil market by not cutting production and putting everyone else out of business. Countries have responded with protectionism, notably America where mass adoption of NG/Methane vehicles is underway as it's reverse compatible with existing Diesel engines. This fight has escalated thanks to Trump being President meaning restrictions on oil fracking or offshore drilling aren't happening. Meanwhile the neoliberal left has tried to chart (or, "target") the end of oil entirely through proposed phase-out initiatives. Even agribuiness is in on it by having states pass laws requiring a certain percentage of their fuel be blended with Ethanol. Why is any of this being tolerated? Because the captains of industry are turning on each other.

The end stage of this is either American-sourced oil becoming dominant or oil going away entirely. If it either comes to pass, one of the tentpoles to international capitalism collapses.

I actually voted Tory in the election before this year's one because I was going through an edgy, depressed phase where I hated "SJW's" and women. I am shamed every day by my stupidity.

why not UKIP?

It is, really.

Well, I'm mixed race, so I wasn't THAT stupid. But I was still pretty fucking stupid. Also, I don't think UKIP were even on the form.

Besides Chris Williamson I'm not sure any are comrades or even worth having as comrades.
Most are thick as fuck tbqh. Or the smart, anti capitalism materialists have been keeping quiet.

lol, tell that to Holla Forums, half the folks there are a couple of shades away from white

Apparently Jack Straw is actually a Christian and is only 1/8 Jewish through his maternal grandfather's Jewish mother.

But anyhow this is such a deluded jpeg, as though cosmopolitan liberals rub their palms together at night dreaming of the downfall of the white race. It's like a convoluted plot by MC Peepants from Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

Haven't informal polls shown that Holla Forums is in general both whiter/maler/straighter than Holla Forums, and simultaneously browner/femaler/faggier than Reddit/Tumblr?

Honestly no, mostly picked it up through history class and shiet.

There are a couple, tbh the crop that momentum have harvested will take time to come through, however there are a few like:
Richard Burgon (General anti-capitalist, quite young and is of the 2015 crop).
Christian Williamson (older bloke, pretty anti-cap and a good speaker)
Angela Rayner (working lass gal who has a fire in her heart, not that much theory I don't think tho)
Rebecca Long-Bailey (
And Perhaps Clive Lewis (Who is an anti-war veteran, basically a Smedley Butler type).

yes, that was my point
the glorious master race looks more like the amerimutt pic than the old-timey nazi posters they have in their meme folders

literally just fuck my shit up scenario
there are no cheap replacements for oil
prices of ALL goods would skyrocket
global trade will be set back to pre 19th century levels
the very fabric of society would tear apart
war and carnage will follow

That's if neoliberals' are successful, I didn't claim they would be. My point was that existing trends don't favor global oil or global capitalism, because half of society wants to produce it domestically (for more profit as they can cut out competition) while the other half wants to phase it out. Neoliberals sit with both and are either unwittingly or knowingly creating a situation where their demise is inevitable (weak capitalism -either due to mass poverty or due to it's targeted and planned obsolescence- means nobody is going to tolerate milquetoast neoliberalism anymore).

To be clear I'm not necessarily endorsing green politics here, I just use oil politics as the most prominent example where capitalism defeats itself. And again I'm not saying neoliberals will be succesful, their "targets" and forced markets often have opposite the intended affect they want and causes things like people not being able to afford certain goods or services as phase-outs of "obsolete" ones occur. But successful or not the end stage is that the proletariat ends up not supporting a certain part of capitalism in some way, which is a net gain even if the government never intended or wants it to be. Capitalism destroys itself.

I sometimes wonder if this is the best path to power for the left in the capitalist core countries. First, win an election but don't be naive about what this accomplishes. The rate of profit has dropped so low that even keynesian/succ-dem reforms will trigger an intense backlash from reactionary forces.

Be aware that an election only gives you the right to rule not the power to rule. Await the reaction and be prepared to fight and defeat it. Defeating a coup or other attempt to subvert the electoral process gives the government a huge amount of legitimacy and an excuse to crack down on enemies. This dynamic of a failed coup energizing a revolutionary movement can be seen often in history such as in in 1917 Russia or 2002 Venezuela. Defeat the bourgeois reaction and use it to energize your side, crack down on you enemies, and move into the dictatorship of the Proletariat.

THIS, Pessimistic reformism I call it: and tbh I think it is a praxis that would work quite well. You make socialism "the norm" that the silent majority will support, the concept of majoritarian truth as Zizek and Lacan put it falls in your favour.


Help guys, I love Corbyn and want him to win and build an Isolationalist Socialist Union of Britain after Brexit, but I know he's a a socdem who'll betray us after becoming PM just like Bernie did, What do I do?

Marxism Leninism

I want to live in your timeline tbh

Don't swallow energy porky's blackpill. Sustainable energy is already cheaper and more abundant than unsustainable energy, not to mention that very old conservation measures are even cheaper and extremely large.

Doesn't Corbyn have an entire decades-long career as one of the most committed, proven activist ideologues in politics? As for Bernie, he ended up in a lose-lose situation, and even if the choice he made was meeker than I'd have liked, his best possible choice would've been to pursue judicial litigation in hopes of a swift victory before too much Nader-esque "muh spoiler effect" anti-Trump/Putin hysteria was directed against Bernie.

protip: PVs require silicon which porky also controls

trying to anarchist this doesn't work unless you're using wind power, like your great great great grandparents did. But this is also banned in most communities for visual/noise reasons, and because wind turbines are bird genocide machines.


Let me help: factories that produce solar panels.

Solar power is not "renewable", nor "free", nor "independent from Capitalism".

1) It is not renewable, since you need resources (production of some is quite toxic, btw) to make solar panels. And solar panels do not last forever.
2) It is not free for the same reason: you need to buy those solar panels.
3) It is not independent from Capitalism, since you need organized labour and expensive MoP to make those solar panels.

How does this mesh with Anarcho-primitivist flag?


That term is a sham (IMHO blatant propaganda by the "biopower" Ponzi scheme), as it suggests consuming and then "renewing" something. The most accurate term is "sustainable".
Technically true, but its O&M (operating and maintainance costs) are far lower than systems that require fuel to function.
Addressed in prior post, PV is highly recyclable, highly amenable to recycling elsewhere, and non-PV solar lacks those problems.
But it is far less dependent on it, because it is cheaper to build, has no ongoing material requirements, and is much more durable.
Anarcho-greenie, recent antics of Over A Dozen Fists Up Mutilated Tranny Dickhole notwithstanding.

Earth's maximum natural lifespan as a habitable planet is already half-empty, while but a fraction of the time remaining for life among the stars has passed, as such the only option to preserve the ecosystem of our mother planet is to thread the needle between low environmental impact and vigorous technological civilization.

Anarchism doesn't mean isolation, nor even necessarily decentralization, but merely the elimination of permanent hierarchy.

And what does "sustainable" mean? Is nuclear power sustainable?

1) Energy is geography-dependent. Getting energy to areas with insufficient sun (or moving energy consumers to Sahara) is hideously expensive.
2) Energy production is out of synch with consumption. Consequently, you need to store energy somewhere - which is usually ignored.
3) Production costs are higher.

You need to look at the EROEI - which tends to be lower than that of regular power systems. Which is how Germany is worse off ecologically (not to mention energy-wise) after "Green" reforms (though, it is primarily wind power that is the problem).

Are there any numbers? What are the costs, how efficient (as compared to alternatives) it is, what toxic byproducts are created during recycling? Because the devil is always in the details.

No, it doesn't. I'm quite certain any non-PV is also made from something.

No, it's not cheaper to build. It many cases it needs state subsidies to stay out of red.

Also, you need to look up how Capitalists forced Germany to abolish state-owned nuclear reactors (that were producing stable and cheap energy) in favour of privately-owned "renewable" energy.

Sorry, but I'm not buying any of this. Anything productive that Anarchists are occasionally capable of is much better done through Communism (a flag that does not even exist here).

That it can be maintained continuously into the foreseeable future.
No. Conventional nuclear requires too much fuel to sustain global energy demand for more than a few years (even including positive-ERoEI thorium and MOX), plutonium breeders are hilariously impractical for numerous reasons, and fusion has defied decades of effort by the smartest and best funded scientists in the world to prove it possible (except inertial confinement, which nobody cares about in spite of its far greater plausibility IMHO).
Proven fact, see 2nd pic in 1st post, attached is the PDF it's from.
Sure, which is why a mix of solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, and marine power is best depending on the market.
First, even with dedicated storage, it's still cheaper. Second, many other green technologies such as ground-source heat pumps and electric vehicles also give you free grid storage. Third, even under the present conventional generation regime, there is massive unmet demand for grid storage due to inadequacies of conventional generation to deal with grid fluctuations. Fourth, during the initial phase-in period, prior conventional generation capacity will take up the slack during downtime.
By "these problems", I meant the dependence on exotic materials or manufacturing. Non-PV solar requires nothing complex nor hazardous than mirrors, thermally/optically conductive media, and optionally a heat-electricity system such as a steam turbine.
Nope, see PDF
As if fossil fuels aren't also highly dependent on subsidies. Not to mention nuclear, which has been wholly dependent on taxpayer subsidies for its entire history in every market:
You mean the reactors that were losing money hand-over-fist, teetering on the brink of failure, and would've been a massive waste of money to replace with more nuclear?
Implying communism is truly distinct from anarchy
Red flag, hammer & sickle, Marx, leftcom…

bumping because these threads are quality


God I wish
Anyone in the Labour party know how the purge is going?


She seems bretty gud, a Corbynista in a safe seat that actually gives a shit. Anyone know anything more?

You all ready to play the lottery to buy queen a new yacht?

Remember when this funding was used to support British Sport?..


You think that's bad read some of the comments

she seems like a sound lass

what the fuck is wrong with brits

In terms of private property, revenue from the Royal family's property brings 200 million to the state annual in exchange for 40 million. Nevermind the 7 billion London brings in tourism.

Except all that money goes into a big pot that serves solely the royal family. The myth that they contribute to the treasury is one spread by CGP Grey.


Its happening
should I join Labour to try and purge my local MP (he is more right than Blair)

Don't see how that's an improvement


Any sources for this?

Bruv this has been happening for the last year, how come you haven't got on the entryism bandwagon yet?

I think I will do this year, any tips? Im a student living in a very Blairite safe labour seat, I don't really know how much work momentum has done in the area at pushing more left wing candidates

I just wish they would purge quicker, I was expecting a mandatory re selection of all MPs by now

Well I live in a tory safe seat which has a decently leftwing CLP, but I think the main things are to: 1) build connections; don't piss people off to fast, try and make friends 2) get involved; even if it is regularly chipping in on the FB-group debates and conversations, people appreciate active participants 3) Don't walk into meetings with a massive Stalin banner and reciting quotes from some book of Hoxha's 4) Stick to your guns: you are a marxist, you want a marxist labour party. When push comes to shove, do not forget what you believe in and do what must be done.

Also remember, YOU may have to be the leftist replacement for your MP, so not pissng everyone off in your CLP might be prudent.

We have time: every day Corbynism grows and every day our enemies get weaker. Heck we could go to 2022 before an election victory if we need, playing it slow is the best option from here one. There is no /real/ rush tbh.

I will try talking to some of my friends who are in the party/momentum already and try and get a insight of the situation, because fucking hell my MP is awful probably one of the worse in Labour

I have just found our about this. It seems the Torys know their days are numbered and trying to privatise as much as they can behind the scene on long (10/15 year) contracts. What can Corybn do in power to revert them? Can he go hardcore and just change the law so these contracts are illegal and force them back into public hands? or will the tax payers have to compensate these companies?

Well he can nationalise PFI contracts pretty-much at will: but it may cost a bit. The easiest way to do it is to force-buy them with bonds: which while adding debt would fuck over most porkies because of the super low interest rate and the long time return they would basically make no money (or in a case like Germany, actually lose money). It is far from ideal but force-bond purchase is far worse for porky.

So yeah, the contracts can't be prematurely ended, but they can be bought by the gov at a shit deal for the contract owner.

new jonathan meades



Any of you lot hear about this? MI5 tried to get loyalist paramilitaries to assassinate a former irish PM and contemporary leader of the irish opposition…


Educate yourself you Corbynite cucks

no u

Start making arguments then.

Man just got dat bread book innit

Happy new years lads, here's hoping it will be a red one. Regardless, this will be a year when major shit gets decided.

Is the thread autosaging?

Wat le fug, what year is this? Have we warped back to the 1890s or something?

I don't know, this thread ain't anchored though.

Post 'em

What did he mean by this?..

Its happening, May the great purge begin

Jezzas gonna beat May in a game of headers and volleys.

God I hope we have another General election this year


Oh dear, this is not going to end well.

hi, made this for a different thread but you might get some use out of it

corbyn hates minorities

Why do you people insist on allowing those who follow a culture incompatible with our to find residence here? Is not repatriation the only sensible method to prevent British values being lost eternally, and our culture swept aside and replaced by those of South-Asia and Africa?

the primary destroyer of british culture is american cultural imports. anything immigrants bring pales in influence compared to what the british people voluntarily consume.

Nonsense! Jamal and Ahmed bring in their culture wholesale, and set up their own communities in formerly British areas. Consuming the fruits of foreign trade is nothing in comparison to this colonisation.

This tbh, Pappa Corbyn gonna send the yanks packing.

Is this what pol calls globalism nowadays? The alt-right was always a porky front.
The largest group growing in the UK are Poles, soon they will be the largest minority in the UK, oh but they're white aren't they so they're fine…

No, they're NOT fine, but they're better than Pakis and Wogs, who bring over low Autism Levels and Islam!

What is it with pol and using slurs from the 19 cocking 70s: wogs, trannies et al. It feels weird; like someone using the term negro or chinaman.
Gotta love that word filter
Yeah, all those Hindu Indians and Christian africans dun be bringing dem muslams to our britains!!!

immigration is the foreign trade in human beings, one aspect of supply to the labour market.
of all the ways of referring to (something really ghastly you don't like some feminist pop singer i don't know) i've ever heard of, "the fruits of foreign trade" is a new one.
by your own statement, immigrants take over a given street in a city. American culture takes over the entire country. British children from Shetland to Shoreditch say Trash, not Rubbish, Mail, not Post, and even elevator - not lift. Our politicians speak of the American BRITISH Dream and go weak at the knees when invited to stroll around some of the shoddiest democratic institutions ever to abuse pretend Greco-Roman architecture.

Go ahead, send them all back to Africa, but you'll never deport the American inside your own skull, and we all know the percentages involved in his racial admixture.

"Deport the American inside your skull"
Consider that collectivised, that is a great lyric.

You don't understand; by importing foreigners with varying cultures and homelands, British culture will be destroyed in the process. Culture must depend upon ethnic solidarity; why do you refuse to have any solidarity with your fellow countrymen?

Would you allow strangers to live in your house in the name of "tolerance"?

British culture depends, primarily, upon the British people who are custodians of it. Cultural interchange is fine; importing hostile and decadent cultures in their entirety isn't.

What british ethnicity? This country has had so many colonists: Celts, Romans, Anglo-Saxon-Jutes, Norsemen, Frenchmen and others there IS NO british ethnicity. Regardless, you come from the standpoint that there is one monolithic british culture, one monolithic british identity: in itself destroying the cultures of these isles. This is why I hate ethno-nats. My mother is a Scot, born and bred. She tried to raise me in that tradition as well as she could, and you know what; it is southern english chauvinists that are destroying the culture of this country. An elite of literal and neo aristocrats rotting at the heart of british society, a tumour that has grown so it consumes all it holds dear in these isles. So don't fucking come along to me and tell me it is the 5% of brown people in England that are the threat, no it is the elite of old etonians and and harrowites that sit in the hall of power that are destroying this country and its working class culture. It is they who take men away from faith and god: replacing it with money and consumerism. All this time, sponsored by the cultural imperialism of the United State of America. It is they that import the American ideal to britain; that defile all that we hold dear for the sake of the American dollar. Look at the upper class brexiteers: boris, Gove, Fox; they all suck the dick of Washington and want us to leave Europe so we can be more under hte grip of the United States.

It is not the actually relatively small levels of immigration into this nation that are destroying it, it is the colonisation of the minds of our elites and their entrenchment that has wrought devastation upon this land. And the worst part is, you are falling for their tricks, you are falling for their schemes: they blame the brown man, for they look different, all this while the soul of this country is carved out by the very people who point you towards the brown man.

What is being forced down our throat more than the American ideal? What is more decadent than the ideals of American consumerism?

I don't like the US, by at least they are not shipping half-a-million Mexicans over here yearly. Also, hilarious how you think that the ruling classes are trying to blame immigrants; they are literally their biggest champions because immigrants give them a larger labour supply and increase job insecurity.

They are never that overtly though, they get rich of immigration yet they oppose it publically because having the working class fight itself is in their interests: if the local working class blame immigrants they don't question the economic system the labour under. This most recent wave of immigration started under Thatcher, despite her quite obvious nationalist sentiment: why do you think that is? They bring in immigrants, then blame them for the issues of the native proletariat. All the while they grow rich off their labour; you have to realise that the immigrant proletariat is as much a victim as the native one is, we are both being played here. Shouting "ban the muslamics" is not the solution, deconstruction of the capitalism is.

Sure, but the solution is to send them back to where they belong.

Literally who does that help at this point? Some third gen ethnic indian doctor get shunted back to South Asia is shit for us (doctors, believe it or not, are in short supply), shit for the guy in question and just dropping individuals in countries fucks with them. Regardless porky will just bring a whole new wave in; that's my problem with you lot, your solutions don't make any long term sense. You never look at the structural, merely the result. You want to end immigration? Why the fuck are you not trying to destroy the systems that cause it in the first place? You cheer on porky if they wave your flag, you support the wars in regions that cause refugees, you ignore the AGW that pushes many for their homelands and you play right into the hands of the economic elite all while doing it. You are a part of the problem, not the solution.

Third gen Indian doctors aren't really the priority, but even then they'd likely benefit long term, as would we. Multiracialism destabilises a society, for foreigners will always have an attachment to their ethnic homelands, and are thus not only a constant potential fifth column, but also a disorientated and confused group, with no real home nor sense of history.

Tell me, how is a Kenyan to love Britain after his people were conquered and subjugated by Her? Or, how is an Indian or Pakistani to have any affection for the nation that blew their ancestors from cannons? The answer is, they don't, to facilitate the multiracial British identity, those who promote multicultural ideals seek to fundamentally alter the structure and culture of this society irrevocably, replacing ethnic solidarity with some vague values of "tolerance" and "equality", and in this they are supported by international capital all the way.

Doesn't fucking exist. I'd take an Indian proletarian over Philip fucking Green any day.

How is a Welshman?

How too is a British person to have any affection for the nation that did those things - still does those things - just because they were born here?

You see, your problem is that you see multiracialism as a cause, as an aim rather than a by-product of the efforts of porky to create a cheap labour force. Let me show a good example:
Poland joins the EU, large swathes of the Polish Proletariat move to britain to jobs like plumbing et al.
This creates a need for the same people to do that job in Poland.
Ukrainians move to Poland to do those jobs.
This will create a need for people to do those jobs in Ukraine.
Eventually people from the CIS central asian states will move to Ukraine. to do the same jobs and the circle continues.

Now ask, is this the plan of some super seekrit Polish-Ukrainian-Turkic cabal to undermine nation's ethnic structures? Perhaps a Jewish plot to yadda yadda yadda. Or perhaps it is a natural result of the capitalistic system we exist under, there are no active players here, just those using a system they were born into to. Nah, that can't be right: everyone has some ethnic agency with regards to their race, right?

Great ==JUST== to start off the year, eh?

The support is still falling

Isnt that less than the Lib-dems?

No wonder why they always try to hide their figures

Corbyn is ==NAZBOL GANG==

Yes, this makes them the 4th largest party in the UK (After Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems).

What the fuck was his problem?

He was a demsoc that was TOO pragmatist (remember, he was one of the most anti-war speakers in parliament during that time, which separates him from SocDems of his time).

He was the leader of the British Union of Fascists.

What do people make of the cabinet reshuffle? It doesnt look like any of the big players have changed just filling up the empty places, so It seems she still doesnt have any real power to change anything.
Also it looks like Labour are seriously getting ready for another election soon with stuff like this

That's what it's been briefed to the press as even though it's not actually a reshuffle, and is actually the Tories just trying to sweep bad press under the bed


eh not much of a reshuffle, @electiondata gets the best take of the day.


Remember it lads.

Its going well I see

There going to talk a lot how they are going to win young people back (with mild bribes) while simultaneously fucking over young people. Thinking people can be bribed to vote for you because you cut their stamp duty is part of the problem and I dont think they will ever realise this

Honestly, the sliver bullet for either party rn would be an "Internet bill of rights" that secures net neutrality, ends mass surveillance and other good stuff. That would win you the youth vote for a generation (at-least, my mates that didn't vote labour voted lib dem BECAUSE they said they would do that stuff).

What are you lads doing to spread class consciousness amongst the working class?

Speaking to people in pubs.
Also I may or may not being applying for an internship with a Labour MP…

I left a copy of Towards a New Socialism on a park bench, in a working class area, with a post-it note saying "read me!" on it.

Isn't TANS pretty dense? Would have been better off with the works of De Leon.

I don't think so; it was the first leftist book I read, back in 2010 when I was 14, and I found pretty accessible tbqh.

Holy fuck this article

isn't he the guy who told blairites to fuck off and make a new party at some conference or something, there's a vid that gets posted here on leftypol

How can someone be so based, yet so cucked at the same time?



wew that did not age well



It looks like the usual tactics for increased privatisation are being used once again, right across the public services:


Fuckin wew lads. She used to be my MP until she lost and got shipped off to some safe seat. Has even more of a hard-on for welfare cuts than your average tory. Also our boy McDonnell had this to say
as well as calling her "the stain of inhumanity.

youtube.com/watch?v=3UOqR7ug8_U&t=15s another classic



Someone should strap him down and make him to Silly Wizard until he knows what good folk music fucking is.
Honestly I don't even hate Ed Sheeran I like + it's just that people hear Galway Girl and are like "OMG I LOVE FOLK" no fuck off

American here. I dont know what happened to you brits when it comes to music. You guys used to be great. Now its all ed sherrean and one direction.

Fucking burgers. I guess the '90s was only the Spice Girls and Oasis.

British people used to be great at rock and electronic music. What was the last great british rock band? The arctic monkeys? Also america pretty much took over electronic music in the teens. Both shitty mainstream wubstep crap and also like weird experimental shit like vaporwave.

Why the fuck is ed sherran so big? He's a weird looking hobbit fella that makes bland folk pop.

While america is like throwing out folk punk, and like neutral milk hotel, and father john misty, or like conor oberst.

You brits have really dropped the ball musically.

but what about the deficit guys

Not entirely sure what's wrong with it in the article itself. (iirc Guardian editors write the headlines.)
If I'm reading all it says is that Churchill did the right thing because he was scared of the working class, or at least understood how they'd respond. (Since a peace with Nazi Germany - at cost to Britain - would've made Labour leave the national government and made working class radicalism much greater.) Churchill, unlike the pro-fascist British elites, understood this wasn't a viable route and factored that into deciding to fight on.
It doesn't seem to be saying "keeping the working class in check is a good thing", just "Churchill was a clever man who understood doing the right thing would keep the working class in check, while he'd have insurrection on his hands for doing the wrong thing."

The same thing that happened to everyone, Pinky. Neoliberalism.

I mean you're kinda right, the real shit is coming out of Australia atm.

Legit, a member of my CLP worked out how to get the deficit down to -13bn while actually funding the NHS and shit, and the best part is that he didn't include the extra 8bn from leaving the EU.

I hope he understands sectoral balances.

The maths looks solid, the proposals for raising money are [pic related].

Btw this is just something a guy in my CLP did, nothing official and 100% not policy. The views stated here do not reflect the views of the party yadda yadda.

Accounts don't work like that though. Spending is income. If he wants to get the govt deficit down he needs to get the trade deficit down or reduce private sector savings.
Assuming the trade deficit is a constant this means either increasing private debt (already pretty much maxed out) or a wealth tax, as the savings ratio is something like 1.7%, historically low. His proposals are fucking shit. Pure shit. Awful, every single one of them. The deficit really matter.

*doesn't really matter

Well the idea was to some shuffling to pay more for services while reducing the external debt. I mean macroeconomic policy to deal with the trade deficit is the plans for de facto industrialisation of britain: promoting domestic industry for various projects and that. Also the trace deficit should be easier to manage once we have left the EU.

the worst crime of british economic policy since the 1980s tbh.

spending is good though. having a bunch of unemployed squaddies with no buying power doesn't help the economy. i would give every citizen £50 a week gratis.

yep, people blamed thick lazy british workers but the real villain was the treasury and their london first strong sterling policies. hopefully mcdonnell just prints money and buys dollars and euros like a madman. get the exchange rate down to parity.


Just seen a bloke outside Domino's walking up and down with a big fuck-off LCD screen on his back showing ads.That's just fucking demeaning, man. Especially in this cold.

So Nige is calling for a second referendum huh?

He thinks he could win a second referendum, and tbh I reckon he is right.

Also good reading here:

The section about how deindustrialisation caused brexit is exactly the kind of thing we should try to fix.

Dubstep came from the UK with the jungle, dnb and garage scene so you are wrong there. America has EDM which is fucking awful but the UK still makes good electronic tunes. Also grime is a thing.

Bumping bread.

Is anyone else gutted trump isnt visiting next month? I was looking forward to the protest, I was pricing up smokebombs online and everything.

would have been fun. I dont think he will ever come the protest would hurt his ego too much and May is already pretty hated and wouldn't do something to make people hate her more

Eh, I am more annoyed he cancelled it because it give some wanks (Like Sadiq Khan) an ego boost.


Liquidated now. Anyone been hit by it?


Honestly, nationalise and syndicalise it.



Oh wow such an enlightening video you've posted by that numbskull Molyneux no less, it's no surprise that you're a Gadsen poster.

How about you start with this if you're that clueless about economics:


Good news everyone

Momentum OP. Has Eddie Izzard ever done anything successful in his political "career"


God don't remind me about that time he was on question time during the EU referendum…

thank jesus.

Don't complain, he probably yielded a 4% swing himself.

Literally how the fuck has this government not collapsed yet?

It is Major's paradox: a government so weak that no one has the balls to put it out of its misery at fear of letting the other lot win.

Richard Leonard made a point a while back that the vote on the final brexit bill will be the what puts down the government as they are pretty likely to fail the vote

christ sakes

Reminds me of those parody british public service announcements by scarfolk council

What the fuck is going on here…

You and the alt-right are pretty much the same but they want to be white, you both want to nationalise many sectors and re-industrialization.

Yeah I mean Sargon HATES nationalisation…

It's a parody of 70s public service announcements and ads
Here have a look they do some funny while pretty creepy stuff


Legit thought you were one of his fanbois, it is hard to tell because their level of shilling sounds like they are being ironic.

How do you lads feel about the Labour divisions over the EU? The EU wants free market capitalism and opposes nationalisation, among many other things, and Corbyn rightly wants us out of the EU based on things such as this. However as the recent rebellion of 49 MPs over the party line of pro Brexit shows Labour voters and MPs, even the anti Blairite lefty ones, are pro EU. Needless to say that the PM is not a monarch or president, as much as Maggie tried to make it one, and Corbyn will need these MPs if he tries to govern.

Is this the foundation of a split in Labour between the hard left and the moderates? Will this spell doom or will Jezza just have to back down and bend to the will of the moderates and the public opinion?

Basically, Corbyn is playing the long game of letting the tories deliver brexit so he doesn't have to. Let your enemies tear themselves apart, then use what they have built to make what you want.

Will May even be PM by the time Brexit comes around? Corbyn said himself in December "I will probably be prime minister in the next 12 months". I'm all for drawing out this Tory government as they stumble incompetently from one blunder to another but I don't know if Corbyn truly plans for the long con as you say.

I think he will try to change the party over time to be pro-brexit so they don't "remedy this aliment" after he is gone. Whilst letting the Tories lead the charge and make amendments to it later when he gets into power.

Well this community units shows he is ready to play the long con: such a scheme won't yield results for some time. As for the government falling: the thing is to get another election we need 2/3rds of parliament to approve, which isn't happening after last time.

I think Corbyn is genuinely pro EU now, and would probably fancy allying with DIEM25 if he could.
I think he'll go for a brexit that is fullest alignment possible but with red lines around state aid and FOM.

Nah I think he is for Brexit for pragmatic reasons more than idealistic ones: the capital controls needed after the coming crash can only be properly down outside the EU…

It's likely any crash would work in the UK's favour anyway, no need for capital controls within the EU.

When I say capital controls: I mean defacto introducing a planned economy lad.

Also to mention Nationalisation program would be far easier outside of the EU

Oh okay well when the shtf this year I don't think anyone is able to stop the UK from deficit spending as much as they want and doing that. I think the fiscal compact is an EZ thing anyway.

Well EU rules basically stop any attempt at economic planning: with "muh competition rules" and shiet. Best example is a complex right next to parliament was only given to british companies, then a German company sued because EU law mandates you can't do inhouse shit.

Oh okay. That's me BTFO, as I was referring to that specifically under state aid. Yeah, that's gonna be a problem and I'm not sure how we get around it besides leaving the EU. I think a govt with a backbone could have done though. Shame.


Who's gonna be the Minister for Loneliness when Jezza gets in and how are they going to make state issued gfs real?

Soon user, soon.

Don't mind me just leaving this here

Am I supposed to be offended?

I hope this isn't real

Lads Jacob Rees Mogg has a podcast

At first before it really started I thought it was going to be satire but it's actually a thing. The presenter couldn't sound more tory if he tried.

Welp lads, shit is hitting the fan sooner than expected. Battle stations.

Lefty pro-EU are just naive about the nature of EU. They can be pacified by demanding reformation of EU to be more elected.

My lord the tories are fucked; just read through that.


There is still plenty of good British music, you are just a pleb. Listen to Four Tet, Yussef Kamaal, Burial, Demdike Stare, Richard Dawson, Andy Stott, King Krule, Autechre, The Caretaker, Dean Blunt, SOPHIE and the PC Music gang.

t. continental yurofag



You know what I just went through their twitter, and I finally got what Attlee was saying when he said "There are lies, damned lies and statistics": it wasn't that statistics can be bent to fit any narrative, it wasn't that presenting statistics without context is inherently dishonest, it wasn't even that many statistics can be faked. No, it means statistics mean fuck all compared to what the actual experience with a system is: it means that you can claim you are pumping X amount of pounds into the NHS, but is quality is getting worse people will know and those lies will be seen through by actual evidence.
The things booze makes you realise.

You still live in a liberal democracy with FPTP. :^)

I mean sure the tories will have some momentum (xaxaxa) going on, but you cannot win an election with 70k members; even if you have infinite funds. Besides, we are in the "calm" before the storm, shit is about to get bad and it will get bad real fast.


1) source, interested to read it
2) What do you think this "community unit" bollocks is if not a vehicle for mass mobilisation of the proletariat against the reactions of capital? McDonnell knows what the fuck he is doing and Corbyn says his hero is Allande: i hope he learnt lessons from him,


Do not even think for a second that just because you ticked a box on a piece of paper, you will get what you want.

We're not, why do you think we are organising extra-state structures to challenge its authority should the need arise?

Oh boi…

How do you anons feel the British economy will do after leaving the Free Market? things aren't particularly good now, but are lower growth estimates just pure uncertainty?

It seems to me that we would sort of want the economy to tumble slightly under the tories, not as much to push austerity more of course. But at the same time, now that Corbyn has a good chance of winning in 2022, (assuming May makes it that far) we don't want labour to be handed a shit plate to build from. No one seems to have a certain answer on how bad things will be.

It seems crucial too. If Corbyn has a successful term, it solidifies the foundations for Labour to stay under SocDem economics, rather than regress back to Blairism.

Obviously I'm not at all that educated on this, I'm more just interested in the opinions of more educated anons.

Well the british economy is fucked regardless; leaving the singe market or staying in it. The coming financial crash; which has perhaps already started, will happen if we are in the EU or not, what we need is the ability to reorganise our economy in such a manner that we cannot do under EU rules. So yes, Brexit is a good thing.

Sitting awake instead of sleeping, there's something very special to think about when it comes to Corbyn, and I'm not quite sure what it is.
It's prompted by just remembering the sort of atmosphere of the election campaign. We knew (or thought we knew, anyway. As arrogant in wallowing as the Prime Minister in triumphalism…) we were heading for defeat, but the general nature of the thing wasn't that - it was campaigning, it was laughing at the wheels falling off the Conservative machine, and the one that sticks with me the most is the memetics. I mean, it's a stupid little thing to get caught on, I mock 4chan for doing it, I don't think we "meme'd Corbyn to victory", but there's a sort of interaction between the subconscious and conscious that's interesting.

As our brains said "Labour will be lucky to keep 200 seats", our hands painted an entire map of the UK red and said he'd get 650. In a humour sense, it's quite easy to explain that as the general joke - he's not going to win, but we like him, so let's just imagine that he will win and defy reality to tell us otherwise. Now, I don't make the meme magic case - or even the Liberal Democrat case. ("People would vote for us if they thought we could win…") It's just interesting. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Maybe it was all just in fun, have a laugh about politics with a little picture and let people who made the mistake of sleeping during the afternoon will try and use it as a dowsing rod later.

Oh yeah, the point. See, I did have a point - here's my point, of sorts. See, I think the thing with the memes is that on some tiny little level, some subconscious little thing inside our heads, we dared to hope. We had the audacity to say "No actually, the world is going to get better.", and even if we were joking we said it. I don't say that lead us to bring that reality about, through esoteric spiritualism or even through motivating people to try - but somewhere that hope existed. I mean, I know I had it - that's why I dreaded the election so badly, because I knew that hope was insane, and when it was killed I was going to be devastated. Being punched in the face repeatedly hurts even when you brace for it… Until, of course, the rules of the game changed, and where once the X and Y co-ordinates spelled out an immediate bashing, the Z axis now added showed that in reality, the only reality that could ever exist, the fist was misplaced.

It's an interesting thing, hope. Maybe because you can't control it, not in yourself. You can create and betray the hopes of others, but your own hope is autonomous for better or for worse. Oh, you can try to manipulate it - you can say "I'm not going to pay attention, I'll just get hurt.", but you say that precisely because you can't control hope, not because you exercise control by that mechanism. I had some thought here, about Obama - about the audacity of hope as a phrase, because it's a good phrase, and about how he went on to let down those hopes, but I can't quite remember what it is, or what it was. I'm not sure whether it should be a jumping off point to praising "bounded hope" - knowing when to hope, to let yourself get caught up with Obama selectively* but draw the line at Blair, or to praise unbounded, irrational hope against hope. Audacious hope, hoping to hope, hoping this torrential rain of self-indulgent writing is nearing it's end.

*I say this because perhaps Obama gets too little credit in one little way - his margin with Clinton was narrow in the democratic convention. Perhaps an under-appreciated little spanner in the party machine. Now regardless of hope that he was going to be better - let's say from the beginning you knew his presidency would be very moderate, essentially Clintonite policies anyway. It would still be worth hoping he won, just to trip her up - wouldn't it? Similar to voting Corbyn not because you believe in a Bennlite activist, but because the other candidates are apolitical managers of varying degrees of cruelty. Tripping them up, messing with the management, that's something to hope for - it's not cheerful hope, but it's something. And sometimes that sort of hope can evolve - from "I hope Corbyn wins to have the membership thumb their nose at the establishment" to "I hope Corbyn wins to purge the party" to "I hope Corbyn wins so that he can be Prime Minister.". Reformism of the soul?

No shit he lost the election the moment the war ended stop trying to make me feel bad for him. Who'd of thought people wouldn't trust the tories to get them out of the fact they'd been wounded and their house is now a pile of rubble.

Solid post lad. Kinda reminded me of that David Graeber article titled "Despair Fatigue" from before the election that, from what I remember, was talking about how people were fed up of not having hope. You can kind of see this in the approach to the "memes" as you say leading up to the elections. The British are often labelled as a particularity self depreciating nation which can be seen in this. No one was making optimistic jokes about Ed Milliband or Gordon Brown we just took the piss out of him eating a sandwich or calling that woman a bigot respectively. Whereas all of a sudden Corbyn is this commie god who is painting the whole map red and leading the revolution.

Why do I always fucking sage in this thread.

I think this has to do with Zizek's old joke about getting "The establishment's balls dity": that's all we were originally expecting from the Corbyn candidature, someone to get the establishment of the labour party to think about some old ideals. The 2017 election was getting the establishment's balls dirty, but also punching them in the dick. However the real aim, is to stop the Tartar raping our wife.




New thread.