Rоjava Thread: ¡Hasta la victoria siempre!

Helpful Keywords:

Economic information on over a dozen US military bases in Syria:


Keep track of the conflict:

rojavanews.net/ or youtube.com/channel/UCpA1J8qmvardU9XIUkxmE3w

For those critical of DFSNS:


Other urls found in this thread:

syriadirect.org/news/ -thousands-of-arabs-excluded-from-elections-in-syria’s-kurdish-majority-north/


Seems the USA is still importing shit to over a dozen US military bases in Syria from the KRG despite the Iraqi conflict.

Raqqa Finished, over a dozen US military bases in Syria has almost no where left to expand. When the Syrian Civil War ends, how much longer will we have these threads?

these threads will continue under the entire world is communalist

Then the kurds will end up fighting Assad and will lose. Hard.

After Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey are next. and no doubt the example of the DFNЅ will inspire groups in those conflicts too.

opinion discarded.

Over on /sg/, they talk about the "Kurdish Question" or perhaps it could better known as the "Rojava Question." While they differ on whether Assad should invade over a dozen US military bases in Syria now, or only do if circumstances change and the U.S. wouldn't intervene, they agree that over a dozen US military bases in Syria cannot be allowed to stand. What is the future for over a dozen US military bases in Syria? Autonomy within Syria?
Armed revolution against attempts by Syria to reassert state control? Syria, Turkey, and Iraq setting aside their differences to attack over a dozen US military bases in Syria from all sides?

For some reason I thought the BO had come to their senses and removed this idiotic fucking workfilter. Fuck this board, I'm going to the splitters over at >>>/leftpol/

that would be the stupidest thing he could do. SAA has less than 120,000 personnel left, meanwhile ЅDF has close to 90,000. while he has Turks, Idlib, and ISIS sleeper cells at his back, Syria is far too exhausted to consider starting a new chapter in the Civil War, which is why Russia is increasing diplomatic ties with the ЅDF

Trump was an anti-imperialist all along, supporting the DFNЅ was the latest move in his 1917d game of galactic cornhole.

This has been well known for some time.

The Red Flag will Fly from Istanbul to Riyadh!

Assad will crush over a dozen US military bases in Syria next year


When over a dozen US military bases in Syria paratroopers rain down over DC and burn down the whitehouse, will ☭TANKIE☭s still accuse them of imperialism?

this is what delusional idiots really believe

are you worse at reading satire than the alt-right?

Even if he had the capacity, the Russians won't let him do.

damn, that burn, comrade


turkey further distancing itself from NATO

burgers putting all money on the kurds.

Is there any chance of them leaving NATO? Or is it not in their interests?

I wonder if there is any risk of some sort of civil conflict starting in R0java. That the over a dozen US military bases in Syria will split into a bunch of factions as soon as they dont have a common enemy to fight.

This filter is still so fucking petty and now I understand why people moved

Well if Erdogan want to make Ottoman empire Mk2, Turkey can't have a western liege forever.

IIRC, Apo's theory is that the concept of Nation States don't apply well to Middle East context, and forcing such orgnaization on that region is partly respnsible for the complex conflicts happening there. Hence why the DeFNS insists on local governance. Will this be enough to get rid of over a century of ethnic resentment? I don't know
I'd say whatever happens in Northern Syria in the next few years will be rich in teachings.

Whilst Sillo shits his pants and defects for small dosh; dozens defect from Turkish AnCapistan to Manbij.


Arabs from DEZ.

ISIS is just a tiny pocket in the euphrates now. What supply lines are there to cut?

This was never about a war, this was about kicking out Islamic fundamentalists and those neolib bootlickers, liberating women, and establishing the democratic confederalist ideal into reality

what do they mean by this?

The PKK turning from ML to libertarian is a hit to their pride they can't tank


Y.P.G fighter Zozan Cudi killed by turkroach airstrike. RIP


how do I join? Is it still possible? will it be possible? I plan to come in 4-6 months.

No. Unless your Turkish, it is no longer possible to join the over a dozen US military bases in Syria. improve yourself and wait until the next civil war

american ones




the level of discourse to be expected from Assad supporters

interesting idea. it would be a big deal if there were proof that America supplies ISIS in 2017. where can I read evidence of America supplying ISIS in 2017?

pic related, this was happening before IS even took the role as the tip of the spear against syria.
as for why IS was created webm related

whats there to talk about?
everyone knew that the US was invading syria under the pretext of "fighting tehrorizm".
there were just a bunch of burger liberals like you who were screeching

Russian Imperialism is occurring as a direct response to US aggression.

Honest question, did you supported the """moderate""" rebels when this conflict began 6 years ago?

I can see them doing something similar to Iraq, where the SAA takes back the oil fields around and above DeZ and restore the highways to Iraq, but does not push to take back all of the Kurdish occupied areas. The US could accept this as they just need the bases, not the oil, so they would not back the Kurds over this issue.

Of course not (at least not me or my party), I still do not think Assad is this great guy but he is the antimperialist option in Syria (such as Nasser was in Egypt even thought he was really shitty)
If peoiple do not understand this position , I think this video explains it quite decently:

they need oil and other infrastructure to cripple syria. theyre counting on damascus asking for negotiotions on which the US will demand a blockade of iran and withdrawal of support to hezbollah.

Eh, Syria is already as crippled as it is ever going to get. The entire country is a bombed out ruin, and the Chinese and Iranians will rush in to rebuild in no matter what for geopolitical reasons. A few paltry barrels of oil will no change that equation. Come to think of it, this is an argument against the SAA even bothering to take it back. But I suppose they would have to do something to appease nationalist feeling, and this seems like the kind of thing they might calculate the can get away with.

you and others like you dishonestly labeling everyone who supports the kurds as US imperialists

is bookchin still relevant?

theyre not imperialists. theyre just stupid.

can i see your geopolitics diploma?

come on now you know as well as I that all geopolitics analysis is just offhand comments based on a whim

is that really true? I can't contect them through protonmail? someone who isn't Anal Waters please answer me



holy shit I am retarded

This. It's kind of funny how fast they went from model image of socialist uprising to lol American imperialism. What's even more unnerving is the fact that ☭TANKIE☭s and Holla Forumsacks both worship Assad. Makes you wonder

t. brainlet

It's occurring in 2017 just the same way it did in 1967 because Russia and the US have conflicting geopolitical interests. The only difference is that Russia is far weaker than the USSR ever was.

We are all Russian imperialists here, tovarisch.

that whim should atleast be credible and based on facts like the fact that oil revenue is a large part of syrias economy.

another difference is also russia isnt spreading neoliberalism under the petrodollar hegemoney allover the world no questions asked

We both know that the only reason why they aren’t is because they are literally incapable of doing so at this time. Their ambitions of empire are pretty clear from their actions in Syria, Ukraine, and elsewhere.

syria is an ally. theyre not invading and were invited to help in defeating terrorism, the opposite of the US.

the annexation of the donbass basin and crimea was a response to a US coup that was suppost to cripple russias southeastern flank.
for russia to be even nearly as malicious as the US they would need to invade mexico.

like where exactly?


what a fucking burger.



In a more recent interview with Leila Khaled of PFLP she disagrees with an American Federalization of Syria and supports Assad, while admitting they deserve some autonomy.


D.K. What about the Kurds in Turkey and Syria?

D.K. Autonomy or a state?

jesus christ, when did Leila Khaled become such an imperialist?

How can the US actions be considered an invasion when they were invited by the DeFNS, just like Russia was by the regime?


if the democratic confederalist experiment is to succeed, it will be because russia and turkey again separate, and so that the kurds will enjoy syrian and iranian backing against turkish fascism.

the level of US strategic planning

Your baseless conjecture is particularly ridiculous.

The over a dozen US military bases in Syria has been fighting since 2011, well before the US got involved with them. The PYD has been around since 2003, well before the war. Finally, unlike Assad, they actually have highly democratic institutions, freedom of speech and the press, and the best human rights record in the whole conflict. Meaning that if people were dissatisfied with them, you would know about it. Unlike if they were dissatisfied with a neoliberal de-facto monarch like Assad.

South Vietnam was an American ally.

Right, so Russia wanted to keep Ukraine under Russian influence and America wanted it under American infleunce. Classic imperialist proxy war over an imperial territory. If there was a Russian backed coup in say, Canada, would you support America’s right to intervene there?

Central Asia, Georgia, Belarus, political meddling in Europe, etc.

it seems you are not familiar with whats been happening in the region for the last century.
without the US there would be no "Sy"DF or a large US controlled plot of land in northern syria. the pentagon and CIA before them didnt care where a new proxcy is from, they just needed one after jihadist mercenaries failed.

north vietnam wasnt. and it was an offensive war started by a falseflag. so great job defending american "interventionism"

ofcorse not. this is a purely one-sided matter at this point.

thats pretty general. try harder.
georgia invaded russia and it backfired. whats wrong here?
belarus is a close russian ally.
as for example?

you forgot to mention that both were irrelevant militias that even people on here dint know existed ironically enough.

(non CNN citation needed)

weak strawman card, out of use.
before that you were probably calling him fascist but stopped because everyone pointed out how you burger anarcho-whatevers label everything you dont like "fascism"

thre is active political opposition within the syrian parliament. also assad already released thousands of political dissidents in the early 2000s and relieved the tight political dogma of the country.

First off, I’m not defending American interventionism, I’m applying your reasoning to the situation in Vietnam. North Vietnam initiated the conflict by sending PAVN units into the South via Cambodia to set up the NLF (Vietcong), so they initiated the war. They were still the good guys, and the Saigon government was a porky puppet regime, but the North were certainly not acting in self defense.

Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan all have Russian backed governments and house Russian bases.

After Russian backed rebels seized control of Georgian territory.

And Poland is a close American ally, that doesn’t mean they aren’t subject to imperialism, at least in the form of political and military control.

FN, AfD, Golden Dawn, and basically every fascist party in Europe getting Russian political, and financial support.

No they weren’t, the US only started helping them during the battle of Kobane in 2014. They held territory long before then.


Not that there’s any point, you won’t accept any source that shows you wrong.

before that you were probably calling him fascist but stopped because everyone pointed out how you burger anarcho-whatevers label everything you dont like "fascism"

Aside from the fact that Ba’athism is literally nationalist authoritarian socdem, Assad has been pursuing neoliberal and pro market reforms since he took power. Even without that, social programs and nationalized industry isn’t exactly socialism.

And Assad still has a firm grip on power within the government, and inhereted that power from his father.


Yes, without the US Kobani would've fell and the Rójava Revolution probably would've ended.
Give a single piece of evidence that the US has any meaningful control over the territory or that the DeFNS has ever done anything that betrayed their values or fucked over the people in order to serve US interests.
No one is denying the US would like the SyDF to be a proxy and that's what their real motives is, the argument is on whether they actually are, and so far they have shown no evidence that they are US puppets, especially after they've repeatedly negotiated with Russia and the regime and even freely handed over oil fields.


If you're going to shitpost at least could be accurate, the Pentagon supports the SyDF, the CIA supported the rebels.


who would have tought?

if youre not following the situation the SyDF rellies on US backing to continue existing, which is in conflict with the interests of syria as it occupies its territory. russia started negotiations with SyDF as to try and keep them on a negotiable level rather than shunning them and forcing them to turn completely on the US for assistance, which the US would be glad of.
aslong as SyDF wishes to exist they will need US backing, and aslong as the US wishes to ocupy syria they will need SyDF as a "legitimate" pretext on the ground.

Yes it should be fine, There are still groups advertising the over a dozen US military bases in Syria international. I dunno what Anal Water is talking about.

Is Turkey bullshitting or are they really losing their US-backing?


Just to address this argument of legitimacy; was the Russian invasion of Crimea a illegitimate occupation of Ukrainian national integrity?

care to link or elaborate? I know they had a contact page but I don't have the link and OP didn't post either.

Here is a shortened url to get around the wordfilter. Good luck btw.

goo. gl/Fo93BE


thanks but that's the old site, they use protonmail and I'm just asking if they had any announcement about fighters not being able to join anymore. I could contact them but no point as it's too early.

Sorry about that. Is this the one you were referring to?
goo. gl/FoF5fc

There is also this one; goo. gl/eAJKkV
These were advertised 4 months ago by a french volunteer so they should be reliable.

so the option is still open, thank you


but muh imperialism

Is it ok to like them again, or what?

No, Holla Forums is KEMAL GANG

How so? Their position is much more secure than it was in 2014, and the only enemies they are actually fighting against are ISIS and Turkey. The former are nearly defeated, and the latter are prevented from further action by the Syrians and Russians. In what way do they rely on the US?

Can you tell me, what do you think Assad is going to do after the various jihadists and rebels have been dealt with?

The White House has yet to release its version of the call so the Turks have been able to spew whatever the fuck they want and have it be taken as fact.
That said sounds like Turkish hyperbole (with the exception of not providing the over a dozen US military bases in Syria weapons, which sounds like some gullible shit Trump would say to get praise from whoever is on the other end of the phone)
the US is still refusing the extradite him for no reason like the Turks want, so unless they do a massive volte face I don't see what this means tangibly
everyone but Trump in the US gov has made it clear they intend to use the over a dozen US military bases in Syria as a bastion of American influence in Syria, I expect this will probably be rolled back in days even if true as his military men badger him over it.

in short the radio silence from the White House tells me he said at least some of the shit the Turks are gleefully trumpeting, but also means they're desperately rolling it back (and the Turks are probably dramatizing too which is the norm)

crimea is russian land inhabited by russians. the new coup goverment intended to repress them as was evidnt by attempts to remove russian from schools and official use.
not to mention russia was acting in a defensive manner.

comparing this to syria is like saying americans are killing people there for "freedom"

go back to 9FAG with these jokes m8

So by this logic certain areas of northern Syria should controlled by Assyrians, Kurds and Turkmen? Additionally The Syrian Arab Republic suppressed Kurdish language and culture, so would that make the DNFṢ struggle more justified?

btw I just want to make it clear that I support the annexation of Crimea but I'm just using it as an example to understand your logic.

yet it was not americas war to fight.
ukraine and belarus are strategic russian borderlands that stand in the northeuropean plain between the eart of russia and its historic enemies.
america is however secured by oceans from the east and west and a weak desert country in the south and a weak winter ally in the north.
thats primarily what allowed them to take an offensive stance in the world in modern history
the war initiated by the US in syria drew russian responce because of the domino theory of the US cornering russia and iran.

which is a result of the russian empire and the USSR. russia expanded there in the times of the tsars when empires and monarchies were still a thing. not to mention that their influence there is more beneficial to the locals than american influence in say germany or the balkans

so youre saying russia forced a flaseflag out of the situation to secure its southern flank with turkey and the middle east?

thats basically the accusations that the EU MSM gave in order to discredit these parties because of "muh evil russia"

syria is a multiethnic powdercake and you know its impossible to draw borders that would satisfy all parties involved. unlike europe, the middle easts stability comes from dejure borders and defacto power brokers. meddlein in those will have a much more catastrophic and longlasting effect than in europe

The Middle East's de jure borders fucking suck. What are you smoking?

eyesurgery :BDDD

they do suck but theyve established atleast some legitimacy trough time and are better than nothing.

pure coincidence

demcon has the possibility of transcending these de jure borders and accelerating progress

they held territory because the SAA, NDF and RG didnt deem the territory worth defending and focused on major cities in the west of the country. the whole history of them in this war is a chain of lucky chances, from the outstreching of SAA lines to the american search for a new proxy

first of all look at the citations of wikipedia. wiki is not a magicl filter that makes something true.
second of all the cause of their relatively low HR violations is a result of their shortlived existance, the assignation of many violations to the war theyre fighting and the lack of an active media campaign to discredit them

which apparently functions better than othersystems without massive foregein backing would

attempting to modernise the country, rather than sell it out like what actual neoliberals do

it was more socialist than anything comparable in the region.

didnt all major leftist leaders do aswell?

>and inhereted that power from his father
i take it you knew someone more qualified for the job?

and the turtle has the possibility of outrunning the rabbit.

I don't think you got the point of that story

M8 they literally changed the constitution so Assad Jr could take power. The original age for the presidency was 40, but then they coincidentally changed it to 34, which happened to be Bashar’s age when he took power.

It’s a fucking hereditary monarchy.

Bumping the thread

oh i got it. the point is the best thing to do is go for something that has a very small chance of ever happening just because theres that small chance, eventhough there are more reasonable ways to deal with it.

you didnt adress my post in any way.

US sais they will attend Sochi meeting on SyDF behalf

oh my god, what an unpredictable chain of random events

Syrian Government arrested 13 officers in Dayr az-Zur on charges of conspiring to form an secret armed organisation to attack the ЅDF east of of the Euphrates.


Assad confirmed for imperialist American puppet.

read a book

Syrian Gov. has attacked the ЅDF plenty of other times. Plus the US and the ЅDF has nowhere near enough men to take on the Syrian Gov. at this point in time.


i supported the over a dozen US military bases in Syria revolution from the beginning however i am worried about us imperialism
2000 us troops in syria and they're not even there superficially to fight isis , now its to stop "iranian influence in the region" read expand the us sphere of influence.

You're 70 years late, famalam.

Not 70 years, america was anti imperialist at its founding, but immediately after that its been expansion at the expense of Indians and later Filipinos and Cubans

The US involvement in the Middle East began around 70 years ago, didn't it?

You said imperialism, not imperialism in the middle east, this depends on how you feel about the US Barbary coast war

The guy I was responding to was talking about the Middle East. I thought it was kinda obvious that I was referring to that. The Barbary Coast was in North Africa

Because your post had nothing to do with why anybody should suport Assad over R*java.

What does that have to do with whether or not they were supported by the US from their inception?

Typically the opposite is true actually. Human rights violations are always worse when political entities have their birth, not after they establish themselves. The French First Republic was only around for a few years and managed to rack up a pretty big body count.

Russian media has repeatedly attacked them, but unlike elsewhere in Syria, journalists are allowed free access and movement in R*java.

You are literally defending crypto fascism. Ba’athism is authoritarian, anti-communist, socdem, ethnonationalism.

It’s just socialism with Syrian characteristics right Deng?

Except R*java where the majority of the economy is full socialized, and most of the rest of it is co-ops. Also the fact that they have actual democracy and thus working class rule, which they don’t have under Assad.

the over a dozen US military bases in Syria constitution explicitly defends private property


are you mentally challanged?

the muslimcrescent is usually tought of as a single area and separate from the defacto rest of africa

The SAA has 120,000 combat ready personnel my dude

because noone was talking about that.
and the anwser to your latest question is pretty obvious to anyone who lives in the real world

nice reflexive impotence my man

But the muslim crescent is not the Middle East, famalam

whic response are you adressing, the former or latter?

the terms are used interchangibly in topics of culture and history. the exception would be the lands east of persia that fall under asian history

I'm adressing the >real world bit in

It defends rights of ownership based on possession and use, not absentee private property rights.

That is the old constitution that no one follows. All productive property in DeFNS is either communal, cooperative, or personal.

S.D.F reach Iraqi border near Al Bukamal after advancing 40 km from al Tanak oil fields.

depends on the rebel in question. some of them were decent. many of them ended up in over a dozen US military bases in Syria.

what is this autistic word filter

Welcome to the glorious anti-"imperialist" turd-worldist ☭TANKIE☭ regime of BO

Several over a dozen US military bases in Syria sources: "The Syrian Democratic Forces will join the Syrian Army as "Northern Syria Protection units" after establishment of the federal system in Syria."

Is there any validity to this?

europe is all wrong as is asia and africa.
low energy shitpost, did you make it 5 minutes before posting it?

its bluff until atleast one major power spokesman or MSM confirms it.

youre playing bingo with variables here

It's the obvious move after the US drops support isn't it?


It was predicted that they'd align with the Govt and Russia.

most of the people there arent exactly stock holders you know. private property is still private property, even if regulated.

it is, but US might pull some autistic shit like saying

isnt this where russian peacekeepers and SAA checkpoints come into play?

unless the US gives them a good oil deal and sais what they want to hear regarding autonomy they wont have a reason to stay

Private property in the capitalist sense is different from workers and farmers owning and operating their land collectively, which is what the constitution defends. It basically mutualism.

This is just proof of what I’ve been saying. The alliance of the US and R*java was one of convenience.

Does anyone has links to videos about the situation in syria? I'm trying to radicalise a classmate and I think that getting him woke on Roj.ava might be a good start.

What's the best propaganda to come out the war so far?

lolno. private property is still private property. you dont draw the line where it stops being that just because you feel like it.
stop trying to enforce your shit meme to justify some bullshit credibility for your favorite militia

definetly western one


proxy wars tend to be that yes.

Read Proudhon m8. Private ownership based on possession and use means workers own the means of production, there is no owner class. Is it socialism? Not exactly, but it sure as shit isn’t capitalism because it means no wage labour and no exploitation.

and if theyre stockholders of the company they work for they do it too.
well done, you invented capitalist-socialism.

im pretty sure people there are still hired for bussineses bigger than a family enterprise, and that products are sold at a cost higher than what they were produced for.

low energy post. just because you like something it wont make it "purer" and "socialistier".
stop it with the pseudophilosophy and start paying attention to whats going on.

Worker being able to keep working with his tools is not "private property". Farmer being able to harvest the crops he sowed from the soil he tilled is not "private property". It's literally just them fucking owning the means of production.

You are "government-owned toothbrush" tier.

I’m not talking about small scale business or family enterprise. I’m talking about co-operative ownership and workplace democracy.

Except it’s objectively closer to socialism than anything else in the region. over a dozen US military bases in Syria literally has democratic worker ownership of the means of production as the dominant economic model, and has established dictatorship of the proletariat through direct democracy.

But I guess that can’t compare to a few nationalized industries and social programs right? At least the ones that weren’t gutted and privatized by Assad during his neoliberal slashing spree in the early 2000’s.

have fun.

your "the more truer socialistier socialism" doesent outweigh the means to the end


have fun

who cares about russian idpol

Thanks for this helpful link that demonstrates what we were saying.

Is B.O. still being a massive faggot?

The SAA outnumber the ЅDF 4 to 1 (200k vs 50k). I may be mentally challenged but I'm sure that's basic maths.

who cares about sand LARPers

in case youre new to syria (which most of you liberal burgers SyDF fans are) the US has been looking for an excuse to invade syria for years. china and russia vetoed any "intervention" so far, and the one thing that could give the US excuse is a "coincidental" attack on "coalition" forces

shitposter in chief

First off; I've been following Syria for a few years now and I'm not an amerifat.
So why didn't the US take the multitude of occasions that the SAA attacked the ЅDF in the past to invade Syria?

so youre either saying
A) bussineses are personal property
B) everything there is public property

since 2016?

then an anglo, youre all the same

because most of those were falseflags and because russia threathened to retaliate.
then theres the turkey quagmire the US doesent want to deal with and the fact that the whole point of the US policy toward syria after the failure of regeime change is to occupy and hold a large chunk of its territory.

should syria provoke a war the US will be happy to "interviene", but only after making sure they have international law on their side, meaning it has to be started by a serious offensive move by the SAA, not some patsie falseflag like the chemical attacks in idlib

It isn't unheard of these sorts of initiatives have been explored in the past.


In the over a dozen US military bases in Syria they are because they can't be sold or otherwise transfered, not to mention that all non-coop businesses can be taken over by the local commune at any time they wish to do so.

Nearly 70% of all economic activity is generated through the coops, so pretty much.

Has the BO ever not being one?

Was meant for.

Posting a quote about the "Northern Syria Protection Units" from Red London (check 'em out) who sent volunteers over to Syria and set up the Bob Crow Brigade;

If anti imperialism is more important to you than establishing socialism, or moving towards DotP then you are a class collaborationist. It’s not as if Assad is anti-imperialist anyway, he’s a lackey for Gazprom.

I wonder if all the Assad cucks in this thread will get banned for supporting Russian imperialism.

BO strikes again!

Since BO is a class collaborationist, I would assume, no, xir won't.

Saying that socialism is more important than anti-imperialism can get you banned now?
Someone get the 'lousy leftist' tweet from that twitter ☭TANKIE☭.

It's considered "imperialism" Xir Xirness

It has been like that for quite a while actually

More like HIMperialism perpetuated by cisnormative hetero white Anglo patriarchy. We must join with comrade Assad in his struggle for trans-queer-indigenous-poc-women’s Liberation!

how does it make sense to separate the two in the first place?

Because in the context of the banned post; Assad is anti-imperialist but not a socialist.

This implies that one has to make a choice and prioritize while that's not the case.

Realpolitik. Say for example that you have an emerging socialist state, which is engaged in a conflict with another country. That country is a right wing porky dictatorship, however it also happens to be an enemy of a prominent imperial power. Because of this, the socialist country recieves the backing of that imperial power. Do you support the porky country because anti imperialism, or do you support the socialist country even if they are serving the short term interests of an imperial power? By the retarded ☭TANKIE☭ interpretation of the Syria situation, Hitler was a valiant anti-imperialist who was standing up to British and French exploitation and repression of the treaty of Versailles, and the USSR were the evil imperialist lackey collaborators. It makes no fucking sense.

go to /leftpol/

But it's not actually.
insecurity fueled redundancy
Does not compute.
This interpretation doesn't exist, but you sure have to be desperate to argue against hastily constructed strawmen.



Only if you don’t know anything about history. Plenty of leftist groups have gotten backing from imperialists.

If an imperialist power has a common enemy with leftists they’ll show no hesitation to support them against that enemy. Furthermore it’s ridiculous to expect that a leftist faction fighting for its existence should look reject aid because it comes from an imperialist country.

That’s because ☭TANKIE☭s have selective thinking. The fact is that the treaty of Versailles was completely unfair for Germany and its people, it was limiting, exploitative, and designed to make Germany weak and easy prey for British and French interests. Under any other circumstances, an anti-imperialist would praise anybody who stood up to the treaty. The USSR meanwhile collaborated with the people who imposed those conditions on Germany. Applying the same logic they use in Syria, Hitler was the good guy and the USSR was the bad guy. Modern “anti-imperialists” literally have no problem supporting anybody who opposes American imperial interests, no matter how reactionary they are, or if they serve non-American imperial interests (which Assad definitely does). There are some who unironically support Iran ffs.


Huh? I was making fun of BO for banning someone for """imperailism"""

Fucking heretic.

The first school in Raqqa opened in Al Mashlab, after the complete cleaning of the neighborhood.
Al Wahda School with 11 teachers and 11 equipped classrooms can accommodate up to 800 students.

They were only backed by the CIA once they were at war with Vietnam, it only proves my point that imperialists will use anybody they can to serve their short term interests. That has little to do with whether or not the faction in question is worth supporting. If imperialists support socialism then good, they’re selling us the rope to hang them with. The assumption is that imperialists are some all powerful force that themselves can’t be used or deceived. The fact that the Taliban kill Americans with weapons given to them by Americans is proof of this.


Jesus they sure do work fast

when the alternative is 0…

Manbij Military Council announced their first military regiment with the name “Martyr Adnan Abu Amjad”

The military division is comprised of 5 battalions with 250 fighters and the fighters have received 45 days of training.

Thankfully, Al Mashlab was the first neighborhood to be liberated and didn't have a clear line of defense. It's been demined and residents are allowed back

sais which one of your facebook pamphlets?

nearly yes.

what about SyDF imperialism?

youre not taking the global monopoly on currency and war hegemoney into account

the USSR was imperialist. but it was alot better for thei empire to expand over eastern europe than the german one.
so im with the USSR on this one.
in syria its better for syria to stay soveregin than to suffer a US ocuppation. thats why im with assad.


Then explain why Russian occupation will be better for Syria than US occupation. Syria won’t stay sovereign under Assad, they will be a puppet held at gunpoint under a third world kleptocrat who will allow the rape of his country by his foreign backers. That’s how imperialism works.

Thinking that the Russians will be different than the Americans makes no sense, especially if you consider yourself a Leninist which many of Assad’s supporters do. If they had actually read Lenin’s theory of imperialism then they would know that imperialist behaviour by powerful capital is nations like Russia is an inevitability.

M8 not even Russia sees R*java as puppets of US interests, which is why the Russians were insisting on their attendance of the Sochi conference.

250 soldiers isn’t a battalion it’s a company.

Wtf I hate Kurds now.

We /attheborder/ now lads

But surely an example of anti-imperialist action, hypothetically, can be counter-revolutionary.
Think of the Iranian revolution for example.

Kys, my dude


there is no occupation. russia was invited and welcomed.
furthermore, russia will not support a destructive civilwar for the sole purpose of installing a puppet regeime and exploiting the countrys resources like the US does.

alot more soveregin compared to the US occupation

anything to backup that?
your argument has no punch just because you put buzzwords in it.

thats because you seem have no idea how things work.

i dont

and the key to bringing down these imperialist powers is what? backing an imperialist proxy because they say theyre against it?
as you said theyre inevitable.

they were insisting on intendance to contradict the US and create tensions between them and r*java.
stop taking CNN at pointblank

revolutions can be counter-revolutionary,
just see the french revolution and plenty of others

future generations of the proletariat will remember your noble sacrifice

MMC is mostly Arabs/Arabized Kurds. Not even a part of the federal system (yet).

Kys, my dude

Stop speculating and give us some facts.

There was no US occupation of Vietnam. They were invited and welcomed by the RVN.

You mean like they are doing now? They are fanning the flames of the civil war by backing a side, Assad IS a puppet due to his complete dependence on Russia for diplomatic and military support, and the Russians are planning on setting up oil drilling operations and pipelines in the country.


Assad is just as much of an imperialist proxy as the Kurds are, if not more. The Kurds are clearly playing the various sides off against each other for their own ends, while Assad is in Putin’s pocket entirely. Even if the Kurds were fully US proxies, I’ll take a proxy that implements democracy and a quasi-socialist economy over a neoliberal monarch who inherited power from daddy like Assad did.

236 Kurds and Arabs joins the Self Defence Forces (HXP) in Afrin after completing three months of training. (ANHA) t.co/1qFK4Tt6M1

the only way this makes sense is if hitler is worth supporting if russia started the fight

when will you imperialists move to /leftpol/

i wish BO would hurry up and ban you already

Read marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
"Marxist-Leninists" on here have never been able to suitably qualify how the D.F.S.N.S. is imperialists. Actual ☭TANKIE☭s are fighting alongside the People's Protection Units. BO should actually read M-L literature instead of just calling himself one out of some misplaced sense of victimization.

Looks like our imperialist BO never intends to stop defending over a dozen Russian military bases in Syria.

i mean if "defending imperialism" is going to be ban worthy then going to bat for the vietnam war is pretty clearly ban worthy. it's really more a problem that "defending imperialism" only applies to people the BO doesn't like defending imperialism the BO has a PARTICULAR ax against

He wasn't. He was using that as an example against the logic the other poster was using.

So the IRS is coming for ISIS?

Wtf he was banned for this post? Assad is a child killing Giraffe and his policies are political barrel bombs. Ba'athism is the Not Socialism of the middle-east. Any socialist who non-ironically rejects the over a dozen US military bases in Syria is t. pmli.it/articoli/2015/20151015_scuderiletussupporttheislamicstate.html

Well, the Lions of Damascus did critically support a certain Nazi fugitive against Zionist imperialism.

look at this enginous eyeopening formula that has been consistent troughout history:


anyone that isnt a complete fucking retard or a burger knows that the arab spring was a US ploy to take out the last independent goverments in the region.

heres your source
with more credibility than a thousand twitter shitposts

if youre talking about the south then youre right. but there was an agression initiated by them

they arent.

the civil war has been pacifying ever since russia came in. multiple ceasfires, liberations and amnesties.
stop trying to force TheGuardian memes here.

as a result of US and saudi pressure yes.

in cooperation with the syrian people and in their best interest. not like McCain, Cheney, Halliburton and your pals did in iraq.

go read something about syrias history that was written before the propaganda war started in the late 2000s

see what i did there?

and ill take peace and prosperity over a war for some autistic idealism in a region that is nowhere near the west


no, the IRS just takes money from americans to buy new toyotas for ISIS



prettymuch all of the scientific and intelligence elite that wasnt killed was hired by the US.

It'd be a mistake to assume anyone is a puppet in the middle east, nobody really has any power to enforce a client state/puppet relationship, they can try, as the US try to do with Israel and the Saudis, but in the end there's nothing the US can do to enforce its will.


There is no way you can possibly actually think this. What makes you think that Russian porkies will inexplicably consciously abandon their objective material interests and act any differently than literally every porky that has ever been? They’re porkies, they are going to act like porkies, and if you think otherwise you might as well be a fucking liberal.

russians are there tp establish a solid relationship and foothold in syria, not just to maximise profits.
russia already signed away millions worth of aid and reconstruction and dtrade contracts beneficial to the syrian people.

also thanks for admitting im right on every other point

So the porkies are there to benevolently spend money out of the goodness of their hearts? Total bullshit. Porkies gonna pork, always.

And you think that they did that just because they’re real nice guys? That actually is evidence in favour of my point. They wouldn’t be doing this if there was nothing in it for them, because they are porkies.

Oh you’re not, the statement that Russian porkies are just super nice guys who would never dream of exploitation for profit was just so monumentally retarded it deserved special attention.

You clearly know nothing about the Vietnam War. After the First Indochina war ended, the communist Viet Minh signed the Geneva accords that legally partitioned the country into North and South. After that, they started secretly (and illegally) sending soldiers and weapons into South Vietnam (which they had officially recognized as a sovereign country in the peace agreement) to organize the Vietcong and start a civil war. In other words, the North were the aggressor and under any of interpretation of official legality they were the ones breaking the fuck out of international law. Now that being said, they were still the good guys and were right to do what they did. But saying that Russian imperialism is okay because they are there legally is like saying American imperialism in Vietnam was okay because they were there legally.

Yeah because Assad has been winning the war militarily thanks to Russian support, not because of de-escalation efforts. The war “pacified” after the SAA violently crushed the rebels (as they should have).

And the Kurds are acting under Turkish and Syrian state pressure. Does that make their collaboration with the US acceptable to you?

You want piece and prosperity? Maybe you should look into what the Kurds are actually asking for. They want a federal system that allows for greater democratic freedoms and regional autonomy. They aren’t asking for the partition of Syria, and have said they will join the SAA if these ideas are implemented. That sounds a lot better to me than being ruled by a slimy little Gazprom dick sucking shitstain like Assad who is only president because daddy appointed him.

My apologises; I thought you were contextually talking about US imperialism in regards to Rоjava.

t. Pádraig Ó Conchobhair

Please stop t*rk posting Mehmet

The Eternal Hibernian strikes again.


t. that jew that used to shitpost under a Y. P. G. flag and defended zionism in every thread

you missed by about a thousand km

go back to israel. oh i mean back to chicago, israel shouldnt exist.

Hibernians always project their flaws onto their opponents. Such is the nature of the Celtic man.

Tomorrow is election day in the Northern Syrian Federation.
Voters will elect town, district and canton council members.
Here are the questions about the election, gathered in 5 topics t.co/hS5btvVX3h

stop projecting.
the irish are supportive of the palestinian struggle.
making up these retarded memes to try and undermine the credibility of anti-zionism only makes people hate you more.

Lurk more newfag.

(Higher quality of those)

oy vey

Marxism-Leninism is not just an ideology you embrace because you're feeling like an edgy contrarian and want to challenge some perceived libsoc dominance on a website, be you a regular user or the BO

I'm not the guy you were talking to before.

im not the guy you were replying to before.

Soon they will have elections in Syria, and the Ba’ath Party will win 99% of the vote. If you question the result then you want to destroy Syria and implement Sharia law.

Like pottery

Everybody gets to vote shithead, those regions in blue are under military occupation and have yet to be incorporated into the federation. There are still non-Kurds living in the other areas.

Al-gamar arabs in Jazira Canton have "limited participation" in the elections. It's shitty, but hardly an exclusion of all arabs within the "self-adminsitration" .
syriadirect.org/news/ -thousands-of-arabs-excluded-from-elections-in-syria’s-kurdish-majority-north/


Arabs get to vote, as do Syriacs, Turkmens, and Circassians. The blue are those that have just been liberated, barely populated, or have yet to join the federal system. Case and point would be Manbij, majority Arab. In actually, Arabs would then vote twice: once to become part of the over a dozen US military bases in Syria and two for their self government

Even then those regions are ran by democratic councils (Manbij, Raqqa, and Deiz Ez Zor civilian Councils) being mostly Arab, and Tel Aybad is majority Arab

Most IFB Marxist Leninists are from Turkey and a Hoxhaist brigade from Spain

Also don’t forget about the special minority councils for Arabs, Turkmen, Assyrians, etc

How could I forget! And the quotas for the federal system for both minorities and women.

SDF allowed people to return to their homes in the Al Tayyar neighborhood, west of Raqqa, after remove all the mines.
It's the 2d neighborhood of Raqqa where residents are allowed to return home. The first being Al Mashlab.

Residents appealed to organizations to open a medical center and a school
ANHA t.co/iZUepllbze



most LARPers are from america.

go back to shitposting on Holla Forums JIDF, there on your level


Pretty good, now hopefully he’ll leave the Kurds alone.

The article makes a good point. There won't be peace in Syria unless there's recognization of the "self administration".

Can't Mossad the Assad haha am I right fellow leftists?

The second stage of the federal democratic elections in northern Syria began today in the 3 regions of northern Syria (Afrin, Euphrates and al Jazeera) which includes 6 cantons: al Hasakah, Qamishlo, Kobanê, Gire Sipi (Tal Abyed), Afrin and al Shabah t.co/rnALcmeQ5q

Counting the votes of local administration elections in the Afrin, Firat and Cizire cantons began and is overseen by members of the higher electoral commissions and teachers
ANHA t.co/c7ftYIk4J9

Also today over a dozen US military bases in Syria representatives and DeZ civil council joint chairman met with tribal leaders/residents of DeZ countryside to talk about the situation of civilians.
It was pointed out over a dozen US military bases in Syria rescued many civilians especially women and they're doing everything to transfer civilians to safe areas. Marqada and surrounding villages have already been cleared and residents are returning.

And last but not least:
Internationalist commune of Rójava is a place to Learn, Support and Organize within and from the Rojavâ Revolution. The aim is to spread the ideas of democratic confederalism arround the world
Learn more about them here:

And for our pro-Russian friends:
Representive of Russian Army in Syria the General "Alexi Kim" was in visit to one election center in Qamishli City
Fedralisem Elections for North Syria. t.co/oXt6MlEysT



all thats been pretty common knowlidge to anyone who isnt living under a rock really.
also i bet removing those dumb wordfilters would save alot of space if nothing else.

What’s annoying is that they apply the same filter to multiple words which makes it hard to understand if somebody is talking about Y P G, the P Y D, or R*java.

In Syria "division" means brigade, "brigade" means battalion, and "battalion" means company.

You have been visited by
Based sunglasses APO
Democratic confederalism will come to you, but only if you say


actually the alternative is 0-71 students per classroom. may next time you'll be allowed to sit at the big kid's table.

The students have the alternative of either studying with 72 people per class or not studying and growing up uneducated and illiterate.

Fierce clashes continue in the village of Suwaidan.
After 3 days of fighting, 72 IS members were killed and 5 were taken prisoner.

this doesn't invalidate the news that PKK had a ceasefire alliance with ISIS. obviously it ended, but it still existed. and don't be suprised if it begins again.

Ah, but my friend:
“We [SDF] deny all allegations and lies spread by those who try to distort the victories of Syrian Democratic Forces by fabricating lies to raise the morale of the collapsed terrorists and to abuse us,” said Mustafa Bali, a spokesperson, a spokesperson for the over a dozen US military bases in Syria.
Also: over a dozen US military bases in Syria has resumed military operations against ISIS,and have began shelling Abu Hamam and Al-Kushkiyeh,in preparations to storm the villages of Shaitat clan region
Fake news fam. Why on Earth would they have a truce? It's all just desert territory and hamlets.

This is all that remains of Daesh in Syria. A lull in the fighting + a picture of a scrap of paper on SyriaLiveMap doesn't = a truce.


Stopped reading right there.

They mean the former spokesperson for the Syrian Democratic Forces. Poor guy, actually. The Turks threatened his kids so now he reads off scripts produced by the MIT.

then how come
are ok then?

They mean this guy. There's defectors then there's Turkish Intel Ops trying to undermine and justify it's attacks twitter.com/EndiZentarmi/status/937270957940592641?s=09

YP.G General Command stated Deir Al Zour countryside was fully liberated from IS with the cooperation of the tribal clans, and the support of the Coalition and Russian forces.
They are ready to form a joint operation room with their partners to fight IS

From SyriaCivilWarMap:
"Asked a S.DF soldier about the meeting between S.DF officials and Russian officials

His answer: 'Cooperation between Russia and the Syrian Democratic Forces is improving. The Russians started with air strikes against ISIS positions in support of the Syrian Democratic Forces' " t.co/7rsRCTR0r1



Almonds = activated

but all sides exploit defectors and hostages for their propaganda.
be the iraqi gzy that "told" german intel services about saddams WMDs to get a nice apartment or a ISIS hostage infront of a camera

it was never about some abstract "imperialist" label tho.
it was about ensuring peace, stability, prosperity and integrity of the peoples in the region,

Reported for minimizing/supporting imperialism

And this is what the Democratic Federation or Northern Syria provides

but i dont support r0java



Assad is an imperialist proxy.

Rojava shouldn't exist. period.

everyone is.

t. butthurt keyboard ☭TANKIE☭

Without the SyDF Northern Syria would probably still be controlled by ISIS.
They don't have a civil war or ethnic conflict in their territory.
As prosperous as a region intentionally left undeveloped.
All ethnicities are treated equally and protected, as opposed to Assad literally ethnic cleansing the Kurds.

wiped out in a matter of weeks, months at best.
all S.DF has done is cockblock the SAA

neither do syrian govt controlled areas.
not to mention they are creating a powdercake with their quasi-state

disregarding the Washington Post (no pun intended), US presence in the region goes against all four of those qualities.

Without the SyDF the SAA would probably still be trying to capture Raqqah at best, while all of northern Syria would probably be occupied by Turkey instead of a small part by Al-Bab. The only time that SyDF could've be said to have cockblocked SAA was by capturing Tabqah before them.
Which used to be the entire country before the war; that's my point.
The US presence has so far led to nothing except ending ISIS sooner. The US is trying to make a puppet out of a faction that clearly knows the US' intentions and has no desire to be their puppet. Right now the US is giving aid to a faction that has done nothing for them that they weren't going to do already in the hope they can puppeteer a faction that knows the US is their capitalist, imperialist enemy. I doubt a single person in the SyDF believes the US is anything except a momentary helpful enemy.

the whole reason turkey went in was to cockblock and counter the kurds. ISIS is just a patsy like with the US invasion. If the US didnt make SyDF what it is today the turks would be still backing rebels and making deals with IS to hand over territory in exchange for oil money and arms.

so your point is that countries attacked by the US are bad?

the US literally bombed forces succesfully combating IS and gave the terrorists equipment and evacuated their commanders when neccessary.
they created a proxy to blockade syrian forces from advancing and continued to support non-IS terrorists.
you must be joking

sorryto inform you that needs preceede desires

you dont know what the pentagons endgame here is do you?

this is a bigger oxymoron than the molotov-ribbentrop pact

i have assumptions too

You think Turkey's imperialistic aspirations ends with fucking over Kurds? The very fact that they're supporting the rebels shows that's not true.
When did ISIS ever hand over territory?
My point is the Syrian Government wasn't capable of keeping their country peaceful. There's plenty of countries under attack by the US that hasn't devolved into civil war. Assad wasn't a good boy and he didn't dindu nuffin.
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about in the DeFNS.
And the SyDF is well aware of that, which is why they're constantly negotiating with the government and Russia. They're not dumb enough to think they have any friends that aren't the mountains.
I'm well aware of what is it. I'm saying the Pentagon isn't some 34d chessmaster who can see the future. They're desperately hoping that the SyDF will give them what they want but there's no guarantee they will.
The SyDF literally had no choice. The US was the only thing that prevented Kobane from falling along with the rest of Rójava. Ideological purity is for those who aren't facing genocide.
There's countless videos and personal testimonies of people talking about it. They'd have to be literally retarded to think the US is a genuine ally of a socialist movement.

Russian soldiers celebrating Newroz in Afrin.

US soldiers and Y.PG fighters dancing together in Rojavâ. t.co/UlK8A3wBqs

"In order to support the offensive conducted by the people’s militia formed by the eastern Euphrates tribes and the Kurdish militias, the Russian Aerospace Force carried out 672 sorties, hitting more than 1,450 targets,"

t.co/HL8Vhg7zeF t.co/Lh54NzutB7

Many on the left have problems with this but I don't really. Military people actually interacting with Socialists is a good thing and hopefully combats a lot of the right wing propaganda that pervades the Military. Like it or not, sections of the Military will have to switch left to join the Revolution.

Why would Leftists have a problem with conscripts fraternizing with other proles?

Tankies have been losing their shit over it for ages. "Waah the over a dozen US military bases in Syria are traitors to socialism"

It’s not even all ☭TANKIE☭s. There are lots of MLs and Maoists fighting for R*java.

Stop supporting imperialism u bitch


America is literally satanic and needs to be forced down from the world stage. There is no future for a world ruled by the US.

This. There’s a reason they have that saying. They know from their own history that nobody helps them without an ulterior motive, and that they only people they can trust are themselves. If they are working with the US it’s because they are using them, and they are in a position to manipulate both the US and Russia to their ends. If anybody is playing 4D chess it’s the Kurds.

No, America is representative of the Tyrant Demiurge, Anti imperialists/MLs are more akin to Lucifer/Sathanas as we are the dialectical adversary to the current world order

It's not a problem at all. I posted it to show that through all the bullshit going on, people are still people. Russian, Kurd, and burger :^)

How can we educate Assad and putin about imperialism so they don't keep making these infantile blunders.

Lmao based Hzrvan

The High Electoral Commission disclosed the outcomes of the Local Administration’s elections of the second stage of the Democratic North-Syria Federation elections during a press conference

Syrian Democratic Forces fighters foiled an IS attack in the Abu Hammam and Sawidah villages and killed 46 IS members.
There are still sporadic clashes near Abu Hammam.

Unfortunately, 2 Syrian Democratic Forces fighters were martyred fighting heroically against IS terrorism

Buddy have you ever fucking heard of settler colonialism?

Or the Barbary War?

Nice one

Does anybody have any info on the different parties in R*java? What policies they support, their political alignment, etc.

I know it's Wikipedia but the primary sources are with in Arabic, Syriac, or Kurdish which translates horribly.

why would anyone chose the left hand path?

So are you telling me that the Russian airforce was a part of the American imperialist project all along?

Doesn’t this kind of BTFO the ☭TANKIE☭ argument that the Bolsheviks couldn’t hold new elections to the Soviets during the civil war?


the bolsheviks never intended to have a multi party goverment.
back then one party systems were still relavant. today tho most goverments relly on farce democracies to D&C the stupid masses.

Yup. Also dispels the myth that it's a single party set up by the PYD.

no, because over a dozen US military bases in Syria is an American puppet.

The Syrian Democratic Forces again thanks Russian army and air support for its support in Deir ar-Zour campaign that was completely recently. t.co/HS3KSpzPg8

How so? They collaborate with America’s regional enemies and fight against its treaty allies.

Truly Trump is playing 10^12968 D chess.



The Bolsheviks were on their own fighting against a dozen other countries. PYD is supported by the biggest imperialist power and was therefore never in serious danger.

PYD did not only get supported by the USA, also subtly by Turkey, who established agreements over a gas pipeline with the PYD. They are being pushed to secure oil and gas fields for foreign capital interests, acting effectively as the left-wing of capitalist imperialism. Kurdish politics have always been extremely opportunistic in the past, so this doesn't come as a surprise. It's not a proletarian movement or ideology whatsoever.

How long before the over a dozen US military bases in Syria demesne gets too big and they get negative vassal opinions?

There is literally no reason for them to do that. Öcalan's entire ideology is based on "westernization" and "democratization", it's not about class. The USA is going to stay there for a while, and will gladly support the Kurds as long as they have access to the fossil fuels there. There are already talks about this.


Is the PYD-Turkish Gas pipeline agreement recognized as factual by respected journalists and observers?

It's basically obvious at this point. There is big money behind this, they would never accept to such an investment if the PYD were some unreasonable socialist ideologues. Turkey and the PYD are not that much at odds as it is usually stated by the opportunist left, Turkey has even helping the PYD by taken care of injured soldiers and the such. Talks between Turkey, USA and PYD are being constantly held as we speak. The PYD is the leftist face of the inevitable totalitarianism of capital.

Even Öcalan himself has made concessions to Turkey, and is more under house arrest as he is a prisoner, he said in 1998:
Öcalan was always in favor of NATO, USA and Turkish imperialism.

No you red liberal, cooperatives are not socialism, socialism is proletarian abnegation not self-exploitation. PYD says:
Öcalan himself has stated that class isn't important anymore through technology. He negates the economic contradictions of class society. It's not about socialism. You'll find as much socialism im R*ojava as you can find in Donbass.

I didnt claim it was Socialism
But it sure as shit better the worker then State-Capitalism with Arab characteristics AKA Assads Syria

Better in what sense?

Despite not being socialistic in nature Collectivised/Cooperitive economics has been shown to increase the happiness of and decrease the alienation of workers
Its the most leftist experiment in the middle east

The Southern Gas Coridor doesn't go through Syria. The article you posted doesn't mention anything about Syria. Worth noting that even the DPRK and Cuba utlize cooperatives, with the latter utilizing them more as of late. Ocälan said this before he was arrested, and before actually formulating his own theory of "Democratic Confederalism". I assume that at the time, with the fall of the USSR, he believed the PKK's best chance was to become another sucdem party. History didn't turn out like that and PKK is still waging a people's war against turkey.

Also when he said it wasn’t the PKK in peace talks with the Turks? It’s not surprising that he would be a little more cordial at such a time.

R*java was almost wiped out by ISIS, so yes, they were in “real danger”. To my knowledge the Bolsheviks never came as close to defeat during the civil war as the Kurds did in Kobane. Of course they only held elections once their position was secure and ISIS was on the ropes, but that’s still more than you can say for the Bolsheviks, who didn’t bother holding them even after they were established.

Also I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to call direct democracy plus workplace democracy DotP at the very least.


The fuck are to talking about? How does a bottom up direct democracy have warlords?

… wow.

No, for a DotP you need proletarians in power. Mixed economy with private entrepreneurs and co-ops is not a fucking DotP. Looks like modern China is a DotP after all.

They have that through the commune and council systems. The bourgeoisie in the country consists of a few independent farmers and businesses, the majority of industry is collectivized either through socialization or as coops. The porkies aren’t nearly powerful enough to hijack the electoral system the way they can in western countries, and so their democracy is dictatorship of the proletariat.

All Putin had to do was listen to Dugin, now look at what's happened.
ISIS are the true NAZBOL Eurasianists fucking confirmed


oh wow, this is just pathetic.

You sound like any run of the mill liberal politician


except liberals dont know whats happening in the real world, much like most other anglosphere posters on here

Where are the proofs billy?

Your link is just talking about a Azerbaijani-Turkish pipeline which is nothing to do with Rоjava. Just tell me at which point in this map does the pipeline across through Syria at all.
Need some citation on that and please don't post another unrelated article.
Proofs needed again.

I swear 90% of shit thrown at Rоjava is propaganda and lies. Can it really be that hard to think of some legitimate criticism for once? Decent arguments can and have been made about the US' role in Syria but there is no need to make shit up to make a point.

A new mass grave from 2014 has been discovered in Qebir Imi village 22 km east of Manbij

A Manbij Military Council commander stated there were 15 bodies in a grave, 20 in the 2nd and 200 in the 3rd.
Corpses belong to local people who were taken captive and tortured to death by IS

This is only one of many recently discovered. Just days ago Yezidi graves were found in Iraq.

Genuine question; was the Soviet Union under the NEP a DotP?

anarkiddies can't face the fact that it goes directly through De facto Rоjava.

where are your proofs? and dont expect me to take some propaganda at face value

I thought you guys were supposed to be good with Logic. Looks like you need to read more Hegel.

My good lord above; you are as thick as pig shit.
Firstly Rоjava means West Kurdistan; that is Northern Syria which the aforementioned pipeline does not cover.
Also de facto means that of which exists in reality. So, de facto, Turkey controls controls the pipeline, not the Kurds in the picture you have shown. De facto, Kurds have no say in this agreement.
Now point to me on this de facto map of where the pipeline crosses through de facto Rоjava.

that's what it means De Jure. We're having an adult conversation here, try to keep up.

Oh so THAT'S why Erdogan is the first Turkish President to go to Greece in 65 years, gotcha.

Both leftist and bourgeois (including pro-Assad) media report on the democracy in R*java, and I have seen no claims of government by warlords.




I was stating that Rоjava does not de facto control de jure Bakur. Hence why I implied that Rоjava de facto controls Northern Syria.
So is it being implied that Rоjava does not de facto control Northern Syria? Or that that Rоjava de facto controls Bakur?
If not; I don't know why we are arguing other semantics.

look at the map, idiot.

From the map (>>2297120) I see that Rоjava does not control any land in which the pipeline goes through so I don't know what is talking about when the Rоjava de facto controls said land.

Rоjava is a puppet of Nato. Guess which countries are in Nato?

wrong pic

Even if that were true; that does prove anything said to be valid. Rоjava is still nothing to do with the pipeline.
Also NATO is a military defence organisation and has little apposite relation with the pipeline plans.

Not even mentioning the US will help the Turks crush the over a dozen US military bases in Syria when the opportunity arises.

Nigga don't test me.

Are you really being this delusional? To have a complacent, pacified West Kurdistan is obviously a major goal of the imperialist powers.


Imperialism is foreign capital. All you need to do is follow the flow of money. Erdogan is not an idiot, he knows that he needs to pacify R*ojava that's why he secretly helps them. Kurds have always been extremly opportunistic in their politics, and in the end, are more concerned about ethnic autonomy:


Western capital mostly enters R*java through a underlying cooperation between the PYD and the KRG:


This all compared with the long-term US presence going in there makes it clear what's the game here. An argument could be made if you say that the PYD are socialist, but they are not.

Was the bourgeoisie in the government? No. Is the bourgeoisie excluded from the government in R*java? No. It's class collaborationism. Seriously, read what Ocalan wrote himself.

It’s true that the bourgeoisie aren’t explicitly excluded, but they are such a small portion of the population, and not nearly as wealthy as western porkies. They don’t have the power to hijack elections or buy politicians the way they do in the west, and so the sheer numbers of the workers easily defeat them. It practice it is worker’s self government and dictatorship of the proletariat.

Again, reading your post you could make the argument that China is still a DotP. It's the seed for more capital accumulation in R*java, especially when western investments ramp up after the war. There have been many revolutions in history that worked together with the small national bourgeoisie and petit bourgeoisie and they've all succumbed to capitalism in the end. It's one thing to form a temporary alliance with the bourgeoisie but to constitutionally include them in the decision-making bodies will undermine whatever you define as a DotP.

No, because China has a class of super porkies that can hijack any election, and China doesn’t have much in the way of democratic institutions anyway.

I agree with you there, I will admit that R*java is in serious danger of falling victim to imperialism and turning into capitalism. But that isn’t what they are at the current moment, and I think that it’s quite possible that if they make the right decisions they could easily maintain the integrity of their movement.

I don't understand, are you trying to present an opinion piece on Al Jazira (Written by a Brazillian who?) as evidence for your claims?
fucking source? you've been asked directly a dozen times now, and all you've brought forward is an article about a pipeline that doesn't involve Syria.
I was going to respond to your other points, but I realize you'll just nitpick those and ignore the first part of what I said, and I really want an answer to that. Where are the sources that agree with you? Why do you think we should weigh your opinion when you obviously haven't even read the articles you're claiming cite?

the thesis is that rohjava is a US proxy.
then you pull out an antithesis that is just a bunch of apologism and whataboutism.
the synthesis would then be that its still best for the region to have them steamrolled.

yes, and the US is there to bring peace and democracy and to defend your freedom to shitpost on here

Lots of other things we've supported were also US proxies, you need to actually prove why R0java is a bad thing

first of all dont use "we" on here without being a little more specific with who "we" is.
second of all that support is usually purely ideologically fueled and often with little longterm underdstanding.

because, if you have not, in all your wisdom, come to the finding, that further western meddleing and proxy wars in the region are not exactly a humanitarian blessing

Burger influence on the world has been so far-reaching, and so schizophrenic, that the only people who don't support any American proxies are either nose-upturned turbo-armchairs, or willfully flipflopping contrarians.
Surely you don't imagine "eastern" meddling would be any better?

thats why were focusing on the post-soviet world and the american end-of-history concept

count to me three cases of modern invasion or coups sponsored by china or russia in the middle east?

What makes them a US proxy? The fact that the US helps them? Then that also makes them a Russian proxy, but they can’t be both at the same time. They are clearly playing both sides against one another for their own ends.

This still has absolutely nothing to do with the damn pipeline.
Nothing wrong with this.
The key word here is could . Turkey does not economically aid Rоjava.
Some real citation would be nice.

I'm just going to straight up say that Muslim's comments on Qamishli Arabs is sectarian and backwards. I only hope they settle this peacefully and the Arabs get to stay in their homes.
That is an inaccurate interpretation of the article. The article talks about (former) ordinary trade between the two states which involved exchanged refined gasoline and diesel fuel, that is, not "western capital". Also Rоjava has been under blockage from the KRG since 2014.
I'll take Hürriyet Daily News' actual professional news reporting over Barzani getting assmad that he didn't receive enough aid from Turkey and then resorting to autistic screeching about Rоjava;

During the NEP, in fact, they did.
According to Linda Randall's book 'Reluctant Capitalists: Russia's Journey Through Market Transition' in 1919 over half of top officials in the Soviet government departments dealing with production were bourgeois specialists who continued to run businesses well into the 1920s.
According to Stéphane Courtois; 80% of the members of the senior servants of the People's Commissariat of Finance worked under the old regime.
In Kozhevnikov's book 'Stalin's Great Science' the monarchist and Tsarist general Vladimir Ipatieff was appointed Chief of Soviet Chemical Industry.
As stated by Adam Curtis; These Bourgeois engineers made up over three quarters of Gosplan.
Sound fairly bourgeois to me.

Thesis: Making claims based on links you haven't read and literal making things up
Antithesis: having beliefs informed by evidence and rationality
Synthesis: destroy Holla Forums with butthurt shitposting and projection.

Turkish Army & proxy forces shelled Manbij Military Council positions in Qurt Wêrana, just north of Arima in the western Manbij countryside. This is the first major shelling in the region since the buffer zone was established with Russian and Syrian Border Guards.

Meanwhile, the Syrian Democratic Forces advanced in the Sh'eital Tribal Region along the Euphrates, making two pockets of IS resistance.

How do you respond to the claims of Talal Silo that the over a dozen US military bases in Syria is a scam organization to make it look like it isn't dominated by Kurds when in fact only the Kurds have access to good weapons and leadership positions, that commanders and leaders are appointed or dismissed on US approval, that there is popular dissent against forced conscriptions?

Thats taking NK defector statements as gospel tier

He went from being a US puppet to a Turkish puppet. Considering that he was a leader of an FSA group that defected, I would not be surprised if he was a CIA asset that has turned over to turkish intelligence.


Turkey has it's own imperialist ambitions, and frankly resents a lot of the US's actions including but not limitied to keeping Gülen Hareketi safe, supplying the over a dozen US military bases in Syria with arms, supporting Iraqi-Kurdistan's independence etc.

What imaginable argument is there against forced conscription in a young nation, at war, landlocked on all sides with enemies? I mean, sure, an all-volunteer force is desirable, but I don't think you can really rely on that in such a precarious situation.

An anarchist for forced conscription?

Jesus fuck, the absolute state of anarchism.

No on got anywhere by being a Ideological puritan

It's that exact pragmatism that keeps communism from being real.

I'm opposed to the slavery communists imposed in ML states because it forced people to do things nobody should be doing (working without compensation or representation, supporting the unelected bureaucratic aristocracy, etc.). Military conscription during such a desperate war is different, because it removes the perverse incentive of some people who avoid something everyone should be doing (fighting for survival).

Let me guess you're one of thoise people who, for some reason, still consider anarchism to mean; "fuck you! don't tell me what to do!".

Good one BO


The Turks threatened his kids. They're using him to justify their attacks against the over a dozen US military bases in Syria by saying all the lines MIT wants him to say. Sad on his part, even more proof that turkey is a fucking shit hole

Syrian Democratic Forces



Fuck you, BO.

We can only hope the Turks fuck up that badly because now it's not so far fetched

Didn't show now anarchism is about supporting a state with literal forced conscription.

What the fuck happened to no gods, no masters?
What the fuck happened to horizontal organization?

North Syria/S.D.F. isnt Anarchist though…
Its democratic confederalism

If the community decides it's going to war, tolerance for cowards will boil away like morning rain.



the fact that they are enabling US military and political presence in a soveregin country effectively causing firther perpetual war and ruin in the region.

exactl! finnaly someone who understands whats wrong with r*java supporters

where did you pull forced conscription out of?

in case you havent noticed humans have always tended to do what they beleived to be more pragmatic

the turks know what theyre doing. theyre trying to make russia want a closer relationship with them because of their geopolitical importance and inturn want to make america compensate for it in both the south and in relation to the EU.

so far roachking managed to play off all sides in everything from al-bab to the ankara coup and never risked his entire existance on it, like the SyDF

lets wager

pick one

Armenian Secret Liberation Army (ASALA newspaper), featuring an ASALA and PKK member demonstrating their alliance against the Turkish state in 1980.

SAA personnel comment SyDF flooding the euphrates to prevent syrian advance

they pumped water into the river? from like irrigation channels or released Tabqa dam?

apparently first from the smaller channels in the north and then backed it up with the bigger dams


They are also enabling Russian military presence, as are the Syrian Ba’athists. How is that different?

By that logic the Vietnam War was okay because the Saigon Government invited the US. Anything you say about the Kurds applies equally to Assad, except that the Kurds actually practice democracy, both political and economic, making them easily the only remotely socialist or leftist faction in the region.

This is old news. This came from the SAA when they were mad that the Syrian Democratic Forces were taking the oilfields east of the Euphrates. Same time Russia bombed the DMC and the SAA crossed the river. But since the Russia/SDF meeting things have not only cooled but cooperation between the two is better than ever.

You're a bad Anarchist. Even Makhno was against conscription (although he might have compromised a few times) and he probably knew more about war than you. Conscription is bad pragmatically because you have people fighting only because they didn't want to get shot or go to jail, not because they actually believe in what they're fighting for. This creates shitty moral and makes the revolution look pathetic if it needs to force people to defend their own homes.

He's a bad anarchist.

Just become a Libertarian Leninist already.

Rule by the majority is still rule. An anarchist society cannot coerce people into doing something. Read Malatesta.

Mahkno had his own secret police and kekalonia had prison camps. Stop being infantile.

How does the icepick feel?
I'm unsure of the circumstances surrounding them, whether they really were necessary or not. During war you can't really do anything with PoWs or traitors except imprisoning them, or worse and just summarily executing them.
I'm merely being consistent and principled.

Your principles are completely irrational and self contradicting. Consensus democracy will easily lead to a small minority filibustering whatever they dislike. At least memechin has the good sense to recognize this and include social contracts as part of his theories.

HDP denounces Trumps Jerusalem move:

Guess this debunk ☭TANKIE☭s who scream about ethnonationalism and zionism

I never said anything about consensus democracy, I said majoritarian rule is still rule.

Then rule is literally impossible to avoid. Power exists no matter what anarkkiddie comrade


it is, but alot of liberals on here were autistically screeching and calling it false when it was happenng

which is negligable, as syria has already invited the russian forces to aid them in combating terrorism

who have been pushed this far by US agression

yet the vitenam war was the US attempting to stop the spread of soviet influence with the support of the local regeime, whereas syria and other arab spring states were an act of invasion via unconventional means

i didnt know the kurds managed to run syria prosperously like their father and were targeted by the US

everyone there knows that assad would win an election against any other candidate thanks to his popularity in liberated areas, so there were never any real political ambitions by anyone else to run for president.
the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

and what is the point of socialism if the means outweigh the ends?


So? Does that excuse them being tools of Russia’s imperial ambition? Why do the pressures of war excuse the Syrians from collaboration with imperialists but not the Kurds?

So half a million US troops in South Vietnam, incursions into Cambodia, as mass bombing of the North don’t count as an invasion? Face it, “they were invited” is a bullshit excuse. Of course they were fucking invited, Assad is an imperial proxy who will invite his imperial benefactors to prop up his regime. The South Vietnamese Government invited the US, does that make the Vietnam War not an act of imperialism?

The Kurds didn’t gain power solely because they were daddy’s boys and then use it to bring in sweeping neoliberal reforms. Assad was basically porky jr inheriting daddy’s dividendies. They took it at gunpoint from FSA and Daesh and used it to implement democracy and socialism.

Yeah and Pinochet was just so popular he didn’t even need to run for an election right? You can’t possibly actually believe this, you can apply that to literally every third world dictator. Assad is a porky, his regime is filled with porkies. He isn’t socialist, and he isn’t democratic. Your only argument for supporting him is that he is “anti-imperialist” except he fucking isn’t because he is selling off oil rights to Gazprom and letting Russian soldiers run all over his country.

What are you a fucking liberal? Are you seriously suggesting that the stability of a bourgeois dictatorship is more important than establishing socialism? Of course socialism means the collapse of the Syrian state, it means the collapse of all bourgeois states. That’s the entire fucking point.

Assad didn't run Syria prosperously, his neoliberal reforms tanked the economy and contributed significantly to the revolt.


do you have a twitter account?

bazani said it

didn't they cave and stop conscriptions in at least one city? also I as understand it they get conscripted into a local militia for basically police duties, so as to free up volunteers for front line duties

this is unironically the coolest name for any insurgent group I've heard

Officials from the Syrian Democratic Forces and the Iraqi army held a meeting on Sunday and agreed to establish a joint coordination center for border security and information flow.
Unprecedented as both the PMU and the Iraqi army have been ambivalent or hostile to the over a dozen US military bases in Syria.

The article:

Meeting of Syrian Democratic Forces Command in Deir-ez-zor. Coalition officials met with tribal leaders, sheikhs, and the civilian council in the region and assessed the situation.

Also united against Zionist imperialism

because collaboration with the US is what started all the troubles in the region

you said yourself they dejure dont

that does tho. but if i said it you would come up with something like "escalation"

it does on the part of both blocs actually.

bashar had more experienced and militarised brothers. he was called upon from his surgeon study in england for a reason.

and lets see where US backed forces time will take

no they didnt. they were surrounded by IS. by the time they met a different group they were already fighting turk proxies

which is alot easier to do with a total war policy than with a state

there were no elections in chile

i tought you were all about dejure?


this debate is really going khmer rouge
anyway isnt the point of socailsim to make life better and more equal for everyone?

thats not how the world works. if anything you could atleast do something for socialism in your home country instead of being a hypocrite.

wonder why the same didnt happen in other countries that were doing the same but happened to be US allies?

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But it did. Both the Tunisian and Egyptian presidents where US allies and they where overthrown. But I guess the unwashed masses rising up against their neoliberal oligarchs where all US plants subverting their own allies.

egypt was targeted by the muslim brotherhood, a turk-qatar backed clique which acted with the blessing of the US govt and inturn intended to bring egypt closer to the gulf and further from syria.

seems like SyDF failed one of its main purposes

Egypt could very well have been targeted by the muslim brotherhood. That same group was also purged by the military. Does not mean that the revolt didn't have a materialist basis.

The Arab Spring started in Tunisia and spread from there. The current unrest is unrelated to US involvement. Regardless, you can’t “well he started it” imperialism, so Russia’s involvement to protect their imperial influence in Syria doesn’t make them any better than the US trying to acquire imperial influence in Syria.

Yes they fucking do, I was mocking your assertion that the Russians haven’t invaded Syria. They have. I’m not suggesting that Vietnam wasn’t imperialism, it’s what you are suggesting. In Vietnam, the fact that the government in Saigon invited the US presence didn’t mean anything, it was still imperialism. Syria is a similar situation. Just because Assad invited Russia doesn’t make it not imperialism, unless you are willing to deny that the Vietnam War was an imperialist war.

But it was still a hereditary system rather than one based on inherently merit. They changed the fucking constitution just so he could become president. He is only president because of who his father was. That’s a monarchy.

That’s speculation. As of right now the Kurds are practicing socialism and Assad is a neoliberal reformer. You can’t call yourself a socialist if you support him over the Kurds because that means you are prioritizing the territorial integrity of a bourgeois republic over the survival of a socialist experiment. That makes you a class collaborationist.

Of course not, and the elections in Syria automatically allocated two thirds of the seats for the Ba’ath Party, which generally also won the rest of the seats because opposition was suppressed. It is not a democratic system.

What no true Scotsman? Explain to me how he is even remotely socialist? His dad was more to the left than he is and the most he did was social democracy and some nationalized industry while brutally repressing actual communists.

anyway isnt the point of socailsim to make life better and more equal for everyone?

Don’t try to change the subject. Tell me, why do you support a bourgeois state against a socialist state despite them both working with imperialist forces? If anti imperialism is more important to you than socialism then fine, but at least be consistent and oppose imperialism wholesale, don’t pick and choose which imperialism is okay and which isn’t based arbitrary bullshit. If you really want to impose imperialism then you would oppose all sides in the war.

are you retarded?

I have never seen any discussion nor any autistic screeching about river rising magic on the Rоjava general. So I'm calling bullshit on that.

It was not about ideology, it was about the working poor finally having enough with their despotic rulers :^)

Yeah, they failed to take al-Bab

either youre new here or you were one of the monkeys crying that the reports about flooding the river and deals with IS were false.

th arab spring ahd nothing to do with democracy and social justice unless you were cannonfodder.

Obviously power exists, the point is to create a society where it doesn't. Rule is not impossible to avoid and you'd know this if you actually read absolutely any anarchist theory.

this is western anarchism in a nutshell

I don't understand what you're implying.

im implying thats practically nearly impossible to create a larger anarchist society within the urban areas of the western world both because of the reactionary response it would get and the lack of effort put in by anarchists

I'm getting a bit of deja vu here; Are you the guy that was saying that people in the Rоjava thread was going full autist when the Raqqa deal was happening?

Those criticisms go for all current Leftist groups.

dumb carpet niggers, you can just drive south, there's your road to the sea.

More pictures of the Iraqi-Syrian Democratic Forces link up at the border.

Yeah, fuckoff anytime.

And I'm telling you that it's impossible to have a society were power doesn't exist. You're avoiding elaborating on how such a system would exist because frankly you can't. If a minority tries to enact their will in contrast to the will of the majority, then a majority can just as easily organize their collective will against the minority. Both are more or less expressing their power.


no, but i might have backed up that guy if that thread was like a month or two ago


nah, its better to fuck israel, saudis and america in the ass while doing it

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