Anti Zionism General

I don't know what you are talking about. I make sure that I don't give money to porky but it is a nigh insurmountable task.
What argumentation was used against my points?
They are all valid and encompass many aspects of Zionism in America.
You could argue that a politican might get the US off of the petrodollar and the resulting porky induced collapse would destroy the US's influence on the global scale. That would be unprecedented and require a massive shift in American views that would be great but highly unlikely.

Fuck Jimmy Carter
he started the Taliban

Gonna re post some of the deleted documentaries. It a shame everything was deleted

The Zionist Story. (Full Documentary)
youtube.com/watch?v=wA1lDow-0rk
CBS 60 Minutes Exposing Israeli Apartheid
youtube.com/watch?v=y0J0qzGQvVg
Israeli settlements, explained
youtube.com/watch?v=E0uLbeQlwjw
Israel Lobby
youtube.com/watch?v=Fu_WEG0HXm8

I think this bot is broken.
Anyway for those of you who like books i recommend this on pertaining to the thread

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honest question - is it an acceptable leftist position to support the state of Israel?

It sort of seems like the left is divided on this issue, or am I misreading the situation?

FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA
PALESTINE WILL BE FREE

Why would you support them? Simply because of WWII?

As it is id say no. No one wants both of these states to fail but when it comes to the peace process the ball is in Israels court and its evident they do not want peace but land. Every year they expand their settlements while bulldozing Palestinian homes to do it and wonder why rockets rain on their head.
As long as Israel has mobile borders there will be no peace.

no.

no, thats just zionists posing as leftists.

its like saying we should have supported the soviet invasion on afganistan. come to think of it that (if it was succesful) would do more good than israel existing.

BDS can't work and the movement itself doesn't even make that argument. BDS is, by in large, solely centered around spreading awareness, similar to the "feed the starving children in Africa" infomercials you see during late night broadcasting.

Chinese investments in Israeli tech will blow any stunt by BDS activists out of the water. Israel knows the US is on its last legs so it's (wisely) looking for support elsewhere, specifically from China, India, and Mexico.

BDS won't work. Israel has access to as much money as it needs from the US due to its stranglehold over the USG.

You forgot to mention, Israel is forming new partnerships with China, India, and Mexico, perhaps other nations as well.

By the time US support for Israel ends, Israel will just be China's new BFF, or India's. Oh hell, Mexico even says it will vote with Israel in the UN now that Israel did so much to clean up after Mexico's earthquake.

This will not happen until the US ends. The difference is that Israel has to actually do something for China, Mexico, India etc. unlike in the US where Israel says "jump" and America says "How high?"

So why not BDS America then?

Go ahead, it will affect America even less than it affects Israel.

Even if we accept your claims as true, calling AmeriKKKa a "puppet of Israel" will, in practice, exempt Amerika from responsibility. Can you blame "Zionism" for Amerika's entire history as a colonial-imperialist empire?

Also, the Soviets aren't exactly innocent in this entire thing either, nor is Mao's China, both of which recognized Israel early on.

So what happens when people are "aware" of all the fucked up shit Israel has done? If Israel is truly the one pulling the strings here, why would it matter?

You sound like one of those idiots who thinks the final scene in V for Vendetta is anything close to what happens in reality.

lel

Nothing, because laws are already being put into place to punish critics of Israel, so it becomes too risky to do much about it. For instance, the ADL is known to spy on journalists critical of Israel, prominent Israeli-Americans literally hire Mossad to go after people (Weinstein is just one example), etc.

What do you think the end goal of, say, the American push towards hate speech laws is? Hint: It's not to protect minorities from racists.

Why is this relevant, this is bygone history one cannot change. Those being purged in real time matter far more. Something can actually still be done to stop the Palestinians from being ethnically cleansed.
The US alone gives Israel 4 billion a years in US tax dollars. This is leverage the US has over Israel. If Americans become aware and decide they want the genocide to stop then it can revoke this payment. Israel cannot even fight Hezbollah without munition shipments from the US.
US vetoes in the UN, Arms and munitions, US tax dollars are tools the US give or revoke.
Also, why should Americans not be given the right to know about Israels illegal settlements? I think the average American has the right to know and be educated on the hypocrisy of politicians whom speak of human rights and then support Israel.

How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen
counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/

not on this board.

not really, not much more than can be done for Prussians or Cherokees.

Not really comparable since those are gone.
Palestine still exists.

palestine exists as a nation of refugees. The territory they claim is already occupied, even if unlawfully.

yes, prettymuch.

Those refugees have a human right to return to their land. No one feels sorry for the settlers

anyone who claims to be anti-Israel while supporting over a dozen US military bases in Syria needs to kill themselves

Are people stupid enough to do that?

anarkiddies are

If this is what you think BDS is about, you are GROSSLY mislead.

BDS isn't about crippling Israel economically. It's about rustling Israel's jimmies merely by *declaring* an intent to boycott and nothing else. It's stupid, because despite what BDS claims their movement has no real bite to it, and Israel has a massive amount of support regardless to the point where in a few years as BDS starts to wane it won't have to keep making an ass of itself by denouncing it anymore.

People keep bringing up South Africa, but the problem is, Israel-Palestine isn't South Africa and repeating the same tactics over and over in different climates hoping for identical results doesn't fucking work. Apartheid SA didn't have a fuckton of support from different groups all willing to counter boycott declarations.

No, the real way to "abolish Zionism" would be for the Palestinians to make little gains here and there. Change their goals from an independence struggle to a civil rights one. Demand the right to live on the settlements and thus have access to settlement resources. Demand the right to travel and work over the green line. Demand the right to pray on al-Aqsa. Or, just conduct a massive general strike since Palestinians do all the shitty jobs in the West Bank. Yes, BDS raises awareness but that awareness is usually drowned in a culture which just doesn't care. How many people saw Wonder Woman despite all the calls to boycott? Again, it's not about economically hurting Israel but about changing consciousness, so what consciousness was really changed apart from the people who already had some knowledge of the situation? For fuck's sake, if your strategy hasn't been ultra-successful for the past 10 years then maybe it's not pragmatic.

Sooky quit posting ITT.

If youre not a jew you have no reason to be projew, and considering how much power they have, you even need to fight them for it. Holla Forumslacks are not wrong when they call them a ZOG Occupied Government.

Why it autocorrects by adding occupied gov? ZOG Occupied Government includes that already.

The fact that Israel is pressuring governments to illegalize the movement and allocating millions of dollars to anti-BDS astroturf campaigns would suggest otherwise

They aren't worried about BDS itself, but about anti-Israel sentiment leading to the cash flow dying up in the long run.

They absolutely are because it's a conspiracy. Pol shitheads ruin the anti-Israel movement

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. BDS is bullshit, because the movement itself admits it can't do shit about harming Israel economically or politically. It's only about shitting on Israel's image for the sake of changing public opinion; what that's supposed to lead to politically is still unknown. Which is why I agree with Sooky that anti-Zionists run into the same issue as 95% of the contemporary left in that all they have is a negative, never a positive alternative in which we should be working towards.

And even if your not its interesting that both you and the poster your replying too are incapable of putting together the fact that shitting on Israel’s public image DOES actually mean something to Israel that’s why there are Hasbara campaigns.

Ya’ll act like Public opinion souring on Israel and threatening their gibs has nothing to do with BDS or the rest of the anti-imperialist left which largely supports BDS. People have been opposing Israel in the US since it’s creation yet we’re supposed to believe that the souring of public opinion has nothing to do with decades of pro-Palestinian activism and BDS which is actually a quite extensive network of pro-Palestine activists that never existed in the US prior.

The fact that Israel hasn’t slid into the sea or that BDS does not mean that BDS is useless. Neither Sooky, nor the retarded Leftcoms who came to his defense proved this beyond going for some opportunist ultra-Left talking points to justify their indifference.

Probably only out of conflicts of interest. The Indian Lobby also pumps a huge amount of PR to help India's public image; doesn't mean every policy of India's is based on whether or not Americans look at it favorably or not.

The actual anti-imperialist left doesn't look at Israel as a boogeyman but as an asset to American imperialist foreign policy.

So fat it has been. It's been going on for 12 years and yet only has raised a bit of awareness if that. Wonder Woman was a huge hit despite the BDS campaign against it. Israel's tech sector is growing despite BDS against it. Tourism to Israel is still decent despite BDS. See what I mean?

The way I remember it Sooky’s asshole got absolutely ripped open when he repeated the Chomskyite-Finkelstein line that you’re repeating here. The actual anti-imperialist Left (and not the “moral Left” which makes up the majority of the American Left) there’s a revolving door between the Jewish-American imperialists, the state of Israel and even the Christian Right.

Israel isn’t a puppet of the US and it’s not even an “asset” in the same way that organ-eating Syrian rebels and Guatemalan death squads are assets. If anything it’s Israel that gives the marching orders to the US and not the other way around.

Hypothetically, the US could give marching orders to Israel or tell it to fuck itself but it never will. The reason for that is Jewish power and pr.ivilege in the US —a fact that Sooky denies but even his alleged mentor Finkelstein acknowledges.

Even if you take the position that Israel and the US are evil, symbiotic twins —which is the only position acceptable to the moral leftist gate-keepers and supported by evidence you have to acknowledge that Jewish power is the main reason for America and Israel’s partnership. Israel has very few resources from which the US could benefit, a small internal market and it never deploys its military to serve US interests primarily. It’s kinda funny isn’t it that Israeli wars have been in places like Lebanon, the Occupied territories and Syria+Egypt. They’ve never fought a war to protect American oil interests since none of the countries they’ve ever fought against have had really significant oil supplies.

Even the thesis that Israel is essentially a “proxy American military base” in the Middle East is false.

What Israel does have that the American establishment wants is the loyalty of Jewish oligarchs around the world, the Jewish organized crime families, and the global connections of the Mossad which is widely considered the best intelligence agency in the world.

Still I’d say a fairly good case can be made that the Zionists run the American Empire. And in fact Ariel Sharon bragged that “we the Jewish people run America and the Americans know it” not long after 9/11.
Have you ever considered that Israel would be doing even better and expanding the settlements and waging new wars at a far greater rate if organizations like BDS didn’t exist? South Africa’s economy actually did fine in the 80s, they had massive smuggling networks to deal with the sanctions but the regime may have held on longer had the sanctions and boycotts not been in place. Global opinion actually does matter to some extent.

You’re also ignoring the fact that Israel actually has to do something for the countries it trades with to earn its keep whereas the US gives them a blank check from the public treasury that they can even draw interest on (they are the only country allowed to do this) and that they don’t have to spend in the US. Aside from the 3.3 billion dollars going to Israel openly every year the shadow-aid from black funds, military aid, intelligence aid etc. amounts to more than 15 billion annually according to some experts. Israeli industrial espionage in the US is massive and contributes greatly to its 9 billion dollar trade surplus in America and its “miracle economy”

Don’t forget the Jewish yellow union leaders and mafia racketeers investing their memberships money in Israel bonds which are terrible performers in terms of yield for their holders. These often low-wage workers (often garment and farm workers) are being swindled by their leadership in order to keep Israeli state coffers full. This has all been well-documented by James Petras.

Cutting off Israel’s all you can eat buffet in the US alone would be a good start to putting pressure on Israel to stop its illegal settlements and illegal wars. And it’s not like it can’t be said that BDS hasn’t pointed this out even if I disagree with their weak Chomskyite leadership and ridiculous Judeophilia.

t. Nasrallah

You are fash if you disagree with this. Israel is a USA puppet.

Lol whatever. Most of America’s client states actually pay for the p.rivilege to be a puppet of the US whether through exploitative US aid or aggressive US trade policy. Israel gets gibs in order to be America’s “puppet”. I’ve already explained how Israel’s economic relationship is much to Israel’s benefit and to the detriment of the US. I mean billions of dollars from Zionist supporters is allowed to go the state of Israel tax-exempt often through the guise of fake charities:
electronicintifada.net/content/how-us-charities-break-tax-laws-fund-israeli-settlements/10342

You can’t become president of the US and be pro-Palestinian or even indifferent about Israel…ever wonder why that is?

Israel has recently been concluding tech deals with China in the double digits. Why would the US want their puppet doing such lucrative deals with their biggest economic rival especially in a field that puts them at risk.

Everyone agrees that the neoconservatives engineered the Iraq War but what few know is it was the Zionists pushing most fanatically for a war in Iraq and not the oil industry.

There’s good evidence that the Mossad was involved in both the Kennedy assassination and 9/11. The meaning of that being that at the very least Israel has participated in two coup d’etats in American government.

It’s a documented fact that the British government exchanged the Balfour Declaration for Zionist help getting the US into WWI on the allied side. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis actually ran the US branch of the Zionist movement in secret while serving as a Supreme Court Justice in the early 20th century. Zionist money helped Harry Truman get elected president, who promptly recognized Israel when the time came. This is all documented in Alison Weir’s book “Against Our Better Judgement”

But really just leaving all that aside, I’ve never seen a single Chomskyite moral leftist able to explain away the fact that ALL the neoconservatives who pushed for war were fanatical Zionists. The only credible (and complimentary) alternative explanation is the one put forward by David Harvey that the Iraq War was a kind of revolutionary neoliberal capitalist experiment.

*double digit billions

Nice confirmation that you're fash. So, we have two options for who to believe about Israel:
1. we believe a fascist shitposter on Holla Forums
or
2. We believe Hassan Nasrallah, the most successful leader of resistance against Israel to ever exist.
Finally, we should ask ourselves whose views are compatible with historical materialism. Historical materialism states that the bourgeoisie acts in its own interests. Therefore, if the USA bourgeoisie supports Israel, then supporting Israel is in its interests. This is in line with what Nasrallah says.

I said whatever because only retards say retarded bullshit and then go “if you don’t believe me you’re X” not because I’m actually a fash. You’d fit right into the ADL.

Again theres no proof that the Israeli bourgeoisie doesn’t pursue its own interest independently of the US. And that’s putting aside the fact a significant and disproportionate segment of the American bourgeoisie is both Jewish and loyal to the Zionist cause.

Saying Israel is an American puppet in 2017 is like saying that China is an American puppet today. It may have once been true but it certainly isn’t anymore.

washington does.

look at the catalog

class struggle is a conspiracy.

preddy gudd :BDDD

Holla Forums has a thread for flyers against Israelis deportation of Africans.

8ch.net/pol/res/10936986.html

Seems many of them are suddenly pro Israel. Very strange.

i would disagree.
exhibit A:

you didnt adress his argument in any way there.
also:
what are you, a fruitcake?

and where did he explicitly say israel is a US puppet and not vice versa?
just because something doesent conflict with what he said it doesent mean his words cinfirm yours

from the looks of it its a falseflag PR campaign to make israel seem racist even more than it already is

then some people protested because they want to keep the "open borders for israel" meme going

Even more? You must be joking. Worse than the US south in the 50's.

should really call it the hasbara left and not the moral left

bamp

Its pretty much maxed out objectively. Its only the United States left who vetoes every UN resolution trying to halt settlement expansion.
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-vetoes-of-un-security-council-resolutions-critical-to-israel

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The state of Israel as opposed to people who happen to live there - important distinction between us and Holla Forums, even though Israelis tend to be extremely racist and fond of boot flavor isn't even remotely defensible but there are shitloads of "leftists" who are ex-liberals and carry a lot of liberal positions because they never interrogated their belief system properly. These are the people who are shocked when their "comrades" are pro-gun.

I never understood why guns are always labeled left or right. Crime rates always fluctuate throughout history and society consensus changes.

because the american public has been conditioned to worship the retarded left-right politics

TRIGGERED

Wow, Israel must be working off the 'how to be a good Nazi' playbook.

bomp

This is the disgusting part of the plight of Palestinian people. No one has ever been as cock blocked as hard as them.

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...

vs
doesn't seem totally comparable to me. I like that there dozen bases in Syria but I don't like the Zionist entity

saved

Man we're just a Middle Eastern proxy for the USA, while other Arab and Muslim countries are wildcards Israel is pretty much bound to the USA. Literally everyone here acknowledges that. Fact is, once they stop sending gibs we're good as dead and our economy will fucking tank.

If the US threatened to stop sending gibs to israel overs settlement expansion do you think the israelis would stop expanding them?
I think so, that amount of cash is no joke.

What does the US gain from it?

So Jesus has a throne to sit on when he returns.

Secure ally in the Middle East and a jumping board for further expansion of influence.

10/10

I’ve critiqued this thesis elsewhere in the thread. I don’t think the case for this position is very good even though it is pretty logical on the face of things.

bamp

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Iraq, any other country except for Israel, would be a much better ally since they have oil, Israel doesn't have shit and having Israel as an ally only puts the entire Middle East and Muslim World at odds with the US and receptive to Russian and Chinese influence. Israel is a complete detriment to the US if not only for the benefit of (like another user said here ) "the loyalty of Jewish oligarchs around the world, the Jewish organized crime families, and the global connections of the Mossad which is widely considered the best intelligence agency in the world." And even this I doubt is a worthy enough benefit.

It depends where you are. Viewpoints on Israel are incredibly varied everywhere, not just within the left.

*Leftcoms don't necessarily support or oppose Israel, as much as they see "anti-zionism" being a used as a tool of the bourgeoisie that detracts from class struggle. They're technically anti-zionist, but they don't really like Arab imperialism or ethnonationalism either.

*Anarchists oppose all states, so while they may not like Israel they don't necessarily support another tin-pot Arab dictatorship in a similar manner to leftcoms.

*Communalists desire a democratic and confederal system to the conflict, and the middle east more general, in which the entire region becomes a large patchwork of city-states and smaller regions. Technically anti-zionist, but like the anarchists and leftcoms, see replacing Israel with another Arab dictatorship or theocracy as a step backwards.

*In the German speaking countries, there's a large contingent of leftists from a wide range of theoretical backgrounds known as the "anti-germans" who are pro-Israel, because they see anti-zionism as being a form of anti-semitism (which it is on occasion, just not always) and feel that the same people who tried to wipe out the Jews shouldn't attack the sole Jewish state.

*Tankies tend to side with whoever is the most anti-burger in any conflict, so tend to desire the liquidation of Israel and the formation of another "anti-imperialist" state, and tend to screech about nuance or context as being "imperialism". These are one half of the soyboys people talk about when they say that "anti-zionism" is cover for anti-semitism.

*"Postcolonial" or "Decolonial" types consider themselves left, but the core of their argument is that Marxism and Socialism are "European" or "White" things, so aren't as applicable outside of Europe, which they basically rework into an argument for supporting reactionary or repressive actions by bourgeois forces. These are the other half of the "anti-zionists" who are anti-semites.

Here, the board owner would fit in as a "tankie" and tends to militantly purge anyone who doesn't follow ☭TANKIE☭ logic, whether they be leftcoms, anarchists, or bookchin types, but the left as a whole is pretty varied. In all honesty most legitimate leftists tend to not give a shit and tend to eyeroll pretty hard every time this is mentioned because it just ends up as a clusterfuck of LARPers screaming at each other.

gtfo you blue pilled 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧cuck🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

why is antisemitism so big in the left and in the right?

...

Why is crying anti-semitism so prominent among people without arguments? I’m not gonna address the part about the right but most of the Left’s most prominent anti-Zionist writers are Jews. If anything the modern Left is philosemitic and it really has no reason to be beyond the achievements of some very talented Jewish members.

I bet half the brainlets in this thread crying about anti-Zionism being a gateway for anti-semitism and Holocaust denial can’t even name a Left personality who goes that far. Most of them are just booty blasted liberals who think anti-semitism who actually believe that anti-semitism in the US—perhaps the worlds most philosemitic country.

Who else might you name nominally on the Left whose an actual anti-Semite? Maybe Israel Shamir, whose a Russian-born Israeli Jew. Even the Left’s “anti-semites” are Jewish it seems. I’m
not even sure I would call him a bonafide anti-Semite but really a member of a special category of whacko dissidents that Israel seems to have a talent at producing.

The gatekeeping by the moral Left, or the Hasbara Left as one user here put it is ridiculous.

*who actually believe anti-semitism is a problem in the US

you must be that israeli poster on here that always feels persecuted

why indeed? what have the jews ever done to deserve this? not a rethoric question

They stink like dogshit and also capitalism (see the rothbarf and rothchild)

UN document said to be funding Palestinian legal action against Israel may run afoul of US policy
foxnews.com/world/2017/11/30/un-document-said-to-be-funding-palestinian-legal-action-against-israel-may-run-afoul-us-policy.html

The comment section gave me cancer, its nothing but zionist bible thumpers.

what did you expect, its FOX news.
literally kosher nazis.

Exactly that.
Two party system. Two party msm.

Some good documentaries i found on the subject free of msm bull.
youtube.com/watch?v=Yt3d3Fmouh4
youtube.com/watch?v=wA1lDow-0rk

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Let's be fair the right's anti-semites are also mostly Jews these days, seems every day a new one from Holla Forums gets outed. Makes sense as they're the ones who interact enough with other Jews to care.

alot of Holla Forums posters from burgerstan suddenly like jews i noticed. im sure trump winning had nothing to do with it. i really didn think their paradigm was so weak that they switch sides fatser than italy when something happens.

I believe the main proponent of the anti muslim memes we see are in fact made by zionists.
Holla Forums is an oddball since it never gains them sympathy points.

it would explain why so many of european right wing parties and groups are supported financially from israel

Hugo Chavez About Gaza, Palestinians, Iran, Syria, Zionists, Israel, Mossad
youtube.com/watch?v=gdHjEfICBG0

This guy is more woke than i thought. No wonder the US wants him gone.

He's dead you fucking idiot.

...

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Just got out of middle school?

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I always thought it was just the Republican Party

The news is heating up. New Intifada plasuible.
aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/mahmoud-abbas-lambasts-trump-decision-jerusalem-171206184655902.html

**plausible

youtu.be/SvRa0cDQCdY
NAZBOL GANG: SSNP DIVISION MOBILISE

Based North Korea and Cuba don't fall for re-branded imperialism

No I'm just a random shitposter who wanted to post an image

SSNP are the good guys.

most israeli posters are that

Tbh I don't think I can ever shake my old antisemitism just because jewish neuroticism is absolutely hilarious. There's really nothing better.

Holla Forumslack detected

Same tbqhwyfam. Really only have to see any Israeli and my thoughts immediately jump to understanding why Euros hated these guys so much.

...

Pls explain
T. Somone whose country isnt populated by joos